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Numy
South Africa35471 Posts
On December 21 2011 01:32 Antoine wrote: Which point blank aoe spells continue to work after death? I think i've seen sandking's ult and leshrac's w do it, for example, but i'm not sure. Those are the only two I know of. There might be more though. | ||
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Judicator
United States7270 Posts
On December 21 2011 01:32 Antoine wrote: Which point blank aoe spells continue to work after death? I think i've seen sandking's ult and leshrac's w do it, for example, but i'm not sure. Hero dependent. The better way to think of that question is which spells stop after the hero dies? The answer to that off the top of my head that non-aura based: Luna's ultimate, coded as such.... Yeah, that's about it. Everything else still goes. Not sure on Song of the Siren, Naga's ultimate, after the rework. As for Dota 2 and answering your question: Puck, all of his skills. Void, Chronosphere. Alchemist, Acid Spray. AA, all of his skills although you can't control his ultimate. Probably a lot more. | ||
Antoine
United States7481 Posts
so let me see if i understand this properly.... something like sandking's ult or leshrac's w puts an unpurgable buff on you for the duration of the spell, and the damage goes out from where you are until the duration of that buff ends, whether you're alive or dead. on the other hand, leshrac's ult is a togglable aura that goes away when you die? | ||
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skipgamer
Australia701 Posts
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LuckoftheIrish
United States4791 Posts
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lozarian
United Kingdom1043 Posts
Diabolic edict, however, is triggered, and centres around lesh's position, since it's not triggered to stop when he dies it carries on around him. Similarly with SK's ulti. Basically - anything that is hardcoded in WC3 dota will stop, anything that isn't might not. Luna's ult, however, was changed to stop if she died, iirc. | ||
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Zlasher
United States9129 Posts
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5-s
United States1674 Posts
On December 21 2011 03:45 Zlasher wrote: He's a horrible babysitter lol, he NEEDS early levels to get early ganks and kills, needs rune control, and ideally fast farm to get the blink dagger. Basically this means he's got to be solo mid, but a lot of heroes can beat him there, and beat him to runes. You're right, tiny can ONLY be played solo mid. Korok used to play a decent competitive tiny back in the day, when the game was more based on map control rather than pushing. As far as solo mid heroes go, there're much better choices out there. BM and NS are better strength solo mids with much higher base armor so they can dive better on ganks. Even pudge may be a better choice for a skill based initiator; he doesn't need that early blink to grab some instant gibs. Other than that, many ranged heroes destroy him easily mid (SD, Bat, Lich, etc), and if you put something like an AM dual lane mid, he won't touch creeps and will be guaranteed useless all game. | ||
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Judicator
United States7270 Posts
On December 21 2011 03:43 lozarian wrote: Leshrac's ulti is based off immolation, so when the hero is dead, the source of the damage is no longer there, and hence it stops working. Diabolic edict, however, is triggered, and centres around lesh's position, since it's not triggered to stop when he dies it carries on around him. Similarly with SK's ulti. Basically - anything that is hardcoded in WC3 dota will stop, anything that isn't might not. Luna's ult, however, was changed to stop if she died, iirc. It's actually more complicated than that...but I didn't want to dive into it with Antoine's question. Basically Antoine, every skill will stop with the exception of Lesh and Sand King as the most noticeable. As for the complicated-ness, there are 3 types of spells, hardcoded, partially triggered, fully triggered. [] Hardcoded is is like the old Storm Bolt, click-target-stun/nuke. Partially triggered, spells are based on a certain skill, but only the animations have been changed. Shadow Fiend's ultimate is an example of this. This is tricky (at least for me) because this means they play by the War3 engine's normal rules. Meaning you can dodge with Blink and other animation tricks to avoid the spell. Fully-triggered, spells like Sven's stun or Vengeful's swap, meaning they will hit they will do damage. That's how you end up with weird interactions with BKB, why some spells let you cast, but no effect and others do let you cast, or let you cast and have some effects. Edict is a fully triggered spell because the units doing the damage are actually dummy units and not Lesh itself. Sand King's ultimate I am not so sure what. [] Note that the above part only applies to Dota 1 and why it works like that in Dota 2, I have no clue. Also, there is no general rule of thumb to this, you just got to know it, Icefrog codes shit in weird ways, Spectre's Disperse being based off of Storm Bolt for example... Edit: For those of you interested in this kind of stuff, PlayDota.com's Mechanics section should have everything you need to know in the form of FAQs, guides, and thread posts. | ||
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cDgCornpops
62 Posts
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Sterlymobile
United States1009 Posts
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sob3k
United States7572 Posts
On December 21 2011 11:09 cDgCornpops wrote: I just picked up a Dota 2 invite, navigated here from the league of legends subforum. Is there a place to find other beginners somwhere? not sure where this post belongs, just looking for a simple answer :D Sort of this, just got a key, I've played a bit of HON and plenty of LOL, but obviously I'm gonna suck ass while i'm learning the items and heroes. Is there anything I should do in order to play with other nubs or whatever? I'm looking up starting guides now but if anyone knows any a link would be great...I mean I don't know like anything. EDIT: If I start a private server it has a check for "enable cheats", are there commands I can use to switch heroes and lvl up etc for testing purposes? I can't find them... | ||
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skipgamer
Australia701 Posts
On December 21 2011 03:45 Zlasher wrote: He's a horrible babysitter lol, he NEEDS early levels to get early ganks and kills, needs rune control, and ideally fast farm to get the blink dagger. Basically this means he's got to be solo mid, but a lot of heroes can beat him there, and beat him to runes. Hmm but why? I mean, why does he need early levels and farm? The way Ive been playing him, a 20-30 minute blink dagger has been good enough for me. Stun and toss are very useful and versatile at any level even without blink dagger :S stun -> run in and toss back to your team mate ensures a kill on most heroes even without a blink dagger. His horrid movespeed would make me very scared to play him solo mid. | ||
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architecture
United States643 Posts
It's really simple, he bursts about 800-900 damage, and is able to do this as soon as he hits 8, around 8-10m. Once players have enough time to stack > 1k HP, then his use is greatly diminished. All carries will have significant survival items by 15-20m. Support at 150-200GPM, will probably be able to afford 2+bracers+cloak by 25m. So there's a tight 10-15m window in which tiny is great. You miss this timing, he becomes a sack of shit. E: When playing him mid, you have two general play styles. 1. Against some heroes, you can try for a kill at 3/5 for rune control. 2. Against other heroes, you just try to burst down the creep wave at even minutes for rune control. So it has very little to do with his move speed. But his low armor and the fact that he basically has enough for 1 combo makes him very very vulnerable. If you fall behind, you will have to camp runes 50/50 (or maybe bottle ferry). | ||
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LuckoftheIrish
United States4791 Posts
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skipgamer
Australia701 Posts
On December 21 2011 14:04 architecture wrote: 20-30 is too late. It's really simple, he bursts about 800-900 damage, and is able to do this as soon as he hits 8, around 8-10m. Once players have enough time to stack > 1k HP, then his use is greatly diminished. All carries will have significant survival items by 15-20m. Support at 150-200GPM, will probably be able to afford 2+bracers+cloak by 25m. So there's a tight 10-15m window in which tiny is great. You miss this timing, he becomes a sack of shit. E: When playing him mid, you have two general play styles. 1. Against some heroes, you can try for a kill at 3/5 for rune control. 2. Against other heroes, you just try to burst down the creep wave at even minutes for rune control. So it has very little to do with his move speed. But his low armor and the fact that he basically has enough for 1 combo makes him very very vulnerable. If you fall behind, you will have to camp runes 50/50 (or maybe bottle ferry). Hmm okie dokie, thanks for the info guys. | ||
flamewheel
FREEAGLELAND26782 Posts
On December 21 2011 14:04 architecture wrote: 20-30 is too late. It's really simple, he bursts about 800-900 damage, and is able to do this as soon as he hits 8, around 8-10m. Once players have enough time to stack > 1k HP, then his use is greatly diminished. All carries will have significant survival items by 15-20m. Support at 150-200GPM, will probably be able to afford 2+bracers+cloak by 25m. So there's a tight 10-15m window in which tiny is great. You miss this timing, he becomes a sack of shit. E: When playing him mid, you have two general play styles. 1. Against some heroes, you can try for a kill at 3/5 for rune control. 2. Against other heroes, you just try to burst down the creep wave at even minutes for rune control. So it has very little to do with his move speed. But his low armor and the fact that he basically has enough for 1 combo makes him very very vulnerable. If you fall behind, you will have to camp runes 50/50 (or maybe bottle ferry). Tiny is hilarious. You should watch this game! | ||
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Zlasher
United States9129 Posts
On December 21 2011 11:13 Sterlymobile wrote: So my brother just got a dota 2 key in his email but he cant figure out where the additional keys are and where to retrieve it. Can anyone help? Manage gift and guest passes On December 21 2011 13:42 skipgamer wrote: Hmm but why? I mean, why does he need early levels and farm? The way Ive been playing him, a 20-30 minute blink dagger has been good enough for me. Stun and toss are very useful and versatile at any level even without blink dagger :S stun -> run in and toss back to your team mate ensures a kill on most heroes even without a blink dagger. His horrid movespeed would make me very scared to play him solo mid. architecture pretty much said what i would say, but long story short is he needs the levels so he can burst down opponents in one combo. Needs the farm for blink dagger because he needs as fast a dagger as possible to be at all effective mid game, and anything but irrelevant late. The combo you suggest isn't the most effective combo tiny can do. You want to be stunning and tossing straight up, in HoN at least, it'll double the avalanche damage if done properly (not sure if this is in Dota, even if its not doesn't matter, because you get the auto attack damage to finish them off normally). and once you get blink dagger you bilnk in , avalanche, toss. The combo you suggest can be done a million times better with Batrider, since he can, after spitting oil a few times, blink in, cast firefly and drag you through the flames while bringing the target to your teammates, disabled, whereas tossing them still leaves them the ability to escape. His horrid movespeed is another reason you need to solo mid, to get the farm to get fast boots. | ||
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galtdunn
United States977 Posts
edit: oops sorry. thank you! | ||
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flamewheel
FREEAGLELAND26782 Posts
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