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Dead9
United States4725 Posts
it's certainly not optimal but it's not particularly bad either and yeah timing doesn't really matter in pubs PL's worthless until he gets his radi, and he's much easier to gank than an am or even a sniper, since he's melee and he has like 1000 life with a vit booster he might be playable with a more midgame-oriented build but haven't seen it in any serious games, though tbh i think if you don't capitalize on radi there's no reason to pick PL at al | ||
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coriamon
244 Posts
On November 02 2012 07:36 LazyFailKid wrote: why is PL not played more, he seems so insane with just treads,diffusal,manta and just gets stronger from there. he has a way to escape ganks, (invisibility=invincibility in pubs) that gives him bonus movespeed and a strong nuke that slows. Is he too easy to kill early and im overestimating him vs good players or what? PL is incredibly squishy, and if he doesn't have a good start, it is hard for him to come back. That being said, he scales incredibly well because of his incredible agility growth and his illusions. IMO until he gets tranquil+soul ring, he will get dominated in a lane. You really have to babysit him to that point. After he gets those two items, you can leave him alone, and he will farm well, and kill people who oppose him in the lane. I think it really comes down to preference; before the patch, he was a bad hero. Now he is a lot better, but people just aren't used to him yet. His time will come. | ||
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hkimmy
Korea (South)61 Posts
Of course people say that once he farms for the radiance it becomes much easier but good players will pick heroes that will counter you (unless you last pick) and all they need to figure out is which PL is the real one which they can start focusing. He is also very squishy too so if he does get focused he will easily die. I have lost many games with radiance, diffusal, manta and even heart but all the enemy team needed was an AOE hero to counter the illusions and their carry to focus me down. You mention he has a great escape mechanism but again good players will have detection and there will be no way will they let you free farm early game. | ||
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wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
Preferably both pub and pro games (although I can probably more easily find pro games) edit: i.e. match ids | ||
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PizzaParty
Canada169 Posts
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igotmyown
United States4291 Posts
On November 02 2012 09:32 TheYango wrote: Practically speaking, a lot of Syllabear's difficulty comes not from the fact that he needs a lot of micro, but that he's a very timing-sensitive hero. In a "normal" (e.g. not 6+ major items) late-game, Syllabear is not all that impressive of a hard carry. His strength relies on making good use out of his specific item timings to push and take towers, and both you and your team have to be very cognizant of this fact. Squandering your first Radi push or your first AC push by farming instead of pushing when you should is a very easy way to lose the game as Sylla. The micro's harder than an invoker or a shadow fiend... in an easy lane he's not that hard. But Syllabear's supposed to be able to handle a hard lane and still get farm, and I get the feeling you're supposed to be able to win a 2v1 and not die (otherwise he has too few items and becomes worthless). If you're in easy lane you need an insane amount of farm and pressure to dominate the game enough before the hard carries come online. And vanguard doesn't pump sven up. When he stuns, he's not taking damage, and the opponents basically decide do I have enough hp to take him, or do I have to run. You're paying for an extra 16 block per hit, while an ogre axe gives you +20 damage and a chance to build into bkb. Early gold is at a premium (mana to support storm bolt, treads, sometimes blink, sometimes bkb, sometimes stat items). | ||
TheYango
United States47024 Posts
On November 03 2012 04:22 PizzaParty wrote: Why is Vanguard generally a bad item on Sven ? Vanguard's a pretty weak item in general right now compared to other options. On Sven in particular it doesn't give you anything you want. There are other more appropriate ways to get Regen, and pure defensive/no offensive stats aren't really what Sven wants midgame. | ||
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Entertaining
Canada793 Posts
On November 03 2012 04:22 PizzaParty wrote: Why is Vanguard generally a bad item on Sven ? with his new shout giving something like 16 armor its unlikely hes going to be killed by auto attacks, which is what vanguard is best against. Hes a strength hero and thus already has decent HP gain so the HP is kinda excessive. If your getting focused down id just buy a cloak, or even put some points in stats. A great item on sven is drums and they give great stats for him. Also overall vangaurd is pretty weak right now. Mek just so much better for same price. | ||
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Sn0_Man
Tebellong44238 Posts
Vanguard is little more than the sum of it's parts, so let's examine those parts. Ring of Health: This item is very good for lane regen, but since the introduction of tranquil boots it is quite obsolete for that. Bfury-rushing carries get this in lane, that's about it. Stout Shield: This item is also amazing for laning vs harassing opponents. However, it's efficacy falls off drastically after the laning phase. Vanguard's damage block is a LOT better than stout shields, but the whole mechanic gets weak fast vs abilites or even heroes with a single damage item. Also worth noting is that this can build into Poor Mans shield in lane to even further minimize harass and help with last-hitting. Vitality booster: This item is great for mid-game survivability in teamfights. +250 HP for 1100gold is a reasonable deal, and it builds into heart for later game survivability, or bloodstone for more mana-dependant heroes. The problem is that while it is a deal at 1100gold, it is most certainly NOT a deal at 2225gold (aka vanguard). So, popular alternatives are: For melee agi heroes: Tranquil boots, buy the vit booster if you need it (turn into heart late-game) and turn the Stout Shield into a PMS if required in lane. For melee strength heroes: Tranq/Vit Booster if you are certain a heart is in your future, otherwise Tranq/Sange or even Urn/Sange for regen and tankiness, as well as some nice damage. If you are ranged, then vanguard is straight up terrible on your hero because you are barely even utilizing the damage block. Go something like Mek/Drums instead if you MUST have more tankiness. Important to note is that Sange gives >300HP for less gold than a vanguard. Plus it gives damage, and more damage to strength heroes (and a helpful but not too important chance at a slow). | ||
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
While Sange is a better direct comparison to Vanguard, a lot of heroes would simply rather be 2k gold closer to BKB. | ||
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Dead9
United States4725 Posts
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igotmyown
United States4291 Posts
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FinestHour
United States18466 Posts
On November 03 2012 09:29 igotmyown wrote: Q: is there (an easy) way to hotkey the mia top middle bottom hero response? Dont think thats even in the game outside of player vs bot matches, you have to type it out manually in a real game | ||
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LazyFailKid
Canada750 Posts
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canikizu
4860 Posts
On November 03 2012 09:29 igotmyown wrote: Q: is there (an easy) way to hotkey the mia top middle bottom hero response? You can bind 1 key on your keyboard to the stuff you want to say http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=337793 For example, I bind my P key to miss mid, so everytime I want to call miss, I only need to press P bind "p" "say_team miss mid" | ||
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MeatlessTaco
United States302 Posts
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hooahah
3752 Posts
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valheru
Australia966 Posts
On November 03 2012 16:11 hooahah wrote: pretty simple question - sometimes I see players that don't upgrade their boots at all, even if they've reached their lategame item build. Why's that? (just for example, ComeWithMe played a QOP and had a Dagon 5 but still used normal boots) Sometimes it is just not needed the hero is mobile enough to not need it like weaver with invis/max movespeed skill. Still nearly everyone gets boots included blinkers (since he has a dagon 5 I imagine he wasn't taking the game all that seriously) boots are generally very efficient items. | ||
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LAN-f34r
New Zealand2099 Posts
On November 03 2012 14:36 MeatlessTaco wrote: I just got raped by a Clinkz. Does his searing arrows + lifesteal on helm + crit on daedalus + bash on MKB all stack? Lifesteal and searing arrows don't stack. drop one of them and they all stack. Skadi would also stack with those (skadi stacks with lifesteal, and searing arrows is unique in that it stacks with skadi because of some odd wc3 engine business). On November 03 2012 16:11 hooahah wrote: pretty simple question - sometimes I see players that don't upgrade their boots at all, even if they've reached their lategame item build. Why's that? (just for example, ComeWithMe played a QOP and had a Dagon 5 but still used normal boots) Very, very rarely heroes with innate mobility (blink, surge, etc) will skip upgraded boots for another item. However, if he built dagon, he wasn't building serious items. | ||
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igotmyown
United States4291 Posts
The boots that people tend to skip is power treads. If you're only getting it for the hp, it's not very efficient: 950 gold for 8 strength is 152 hp, which is much worse than a vit booster or even a point booster. A bracer gives almost as much strength, more damage, and some extra mana, for almost less than half the cost. | ||
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