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On October 19 2012 16:23 flamewheel wrote:Show nested quote +On October 19 2012 16:06 KwoM wrote:On October 19 2012 11:08 canikizu wrote:On October 19 2012 10:50 Slardar wrote:
Getting Midas on hard melee carries who have a perfectly standard buildup with a Battlefury is asking for a loss. If farm allows it, 10-12 min bfury is going to be superior to 7-8 midas. Unless you can get Midas so quickly, at 5-6 mins it would be worth it. You would need your babysitter on double-duty though. If you get midas 7,8 min, that means you can only get Porb in 7,8 min, there's no way you can finish bfury in 4 minute, you'll need lik 750 gpm to do that. On October 19 2012 10:14 Blitzkrieg0 wrote:On October 19 2012 08:25 canikizu wrote:On October 19 2012 08:05 Blitzkrieg0 wrote:On October 19 2012 07:36 canikizu wrote:On October 19 2012 06:47 Erasme wrote:
Most of the times it's not worth getting because :
- You can get an item that makes you farm faster (radi/bfury)
- You're a midgame hero so you can't waste 1900g without losing a lot of your midgame power (TA/NS/Slardar)
- You're a support so don't be fucking dumb
- You need an item to be relevant (bkb/blink) All the other reasons are standard, except the radi/bfury one actually. If you can get a midas and have free farm as a carry without disruption, you should almost get radi/bfury as fast as normal time. Preserevance orb: 1750 gold Midas: 1900 gold Now you need to farm 2600 gold for the rest of bfury. One 30sec creepwave gives you 3 melee and 1 range, so you can have ~160 gold, or 320 gold/minute. It takes over 8 minutes to finish 2600 gold with no jungle. With Midas, you can have a little bit of jungle, so you can make ~220 gold per 100 second, so it's about 132 gpm. In 8 minutes when you finish the other 2600 gold, Midas should net you over 1000 gold, and you only need to farm another 800 gold to finish bfury. Not bad for an item that gives you free gold throughout the game and the +atk speed goes nice with +60 damage from bfury. and what happens when the enemy team realizes you wasted your gold on a useless item and don't let you farm? Then it's the same with building bfury. The enemy will not let you farm anyway. The point of building midas is to take advantage of the free farm you have, so if the enemy gank you to dead, they will gank you to dead whenever you're trying to build bfury or radiance anyway. With Midas build, you simply replace the Preserevance Orb with Midas, after that you can go POrb for the regen if your lane is getting hard (because heroes level up, spells getting more dangerous) or just go Claymore like you do after POrb to provide dps. and faster farm (+atk speed +damage) Imagine if the enemies gank you hard when you finish POrb, what can you do with it? Even with POrb, you still have a hard time jungle in such early stage, but if you already finish Midas, you can still jungle and get at least a constant free 132gpm from Midas. You can't get that money from POrb. Battlefury parts actually build into useful laning items. Regen from a ring of health is pretty good early on. Attack speed in contrast is almost useless early on. You have a much bigger window of getting owned in lane if you go midas as opposed to rushing battlefury. You will also need to buy additional regen because you don't have a ring of health. Saying midas is good when it works and bad when it doesn't is a stupid argument for it being superior. There is an area between the two absolutes (free farm and getting ganked) in there where you won't get harassed out of lane if you have a ring of health, but you would if you were building towards midas since you have no way to sustain yourself. If the enemy is just going to let you afk farm the entire game you could build anything and win. I'd also like to add that finishing the perseverance first is almost never the best option. Unless you need the additional mana regen then you should get the damage items prior to getting the voidstone since you have no use for it. I think a lot of people missing the point that I made: you need to have good free farm in the beginning. For example, you have 900 gold and but still haven't used 6 tango you bought yet. What's the point of getting a regen ring when you have that much free farm and that much regen consumables left? The most logical way is to go for the claymore before getting regen ring, you can get it later when you use up the tangos. OR you can rush for a midas. The point I want to make here is: there is an option to go for midas if you have good farm, and going midas will only put you behind in a short run just a little bit but the benefit from having +30atk speed and free gold is much better for the long run. You have 2 options instead of blindly going for 1. Going midas or going the traditional build depend on how you read the games at that particular time. Going Midas is a risk, sure, but it all depends on how you perceive how manageable that risk is and go for bigger reward. I've seen an 11 min battlefury on am before in a pro game. The reason why people go battle fury with antimage is because it's a huge source of damage, after battle fury they go manta and you're pretty decent at team fights already. For midas if you're going to use it to buy manta you're missing +65 damage, which is significant if you ask me, it also allows you to push faster unlike midas where by you can only convert one creep every 100 seconds, the time you take to kill those creeps faster can be used to jungle or what not. No, Battle Fury is not built primarily as a source of damage.
While the damage is not the main reason why you buy a battle fury, 65 damage is by no means little. Getting battlefury followed by manta allows you to go for a heart next and still deal pretty high damage, excluding mana burn.
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If you get shutdown as a hardcarry early on then you'll be less likely to be considered a threat going toward the midgame.
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On October 19 2012 21:36 KwoM wrote:Show nested quote +On October 19 2012 16:23 flamewheel wrote:On October 19 2012 16:06 KwoM wrote:On October 19 2012 11:08 canikizu wrote:On October 19 2012 10:50 Slardar wrote:
Getting Midas on hard melee carries who have a perfectly standard buildup with a Battlefury is asking for a loss. If farm allows it, 10-12 min bfury is going to be superior to 7-8 midas. Unless you can get Midas so quickly, at 5-6 mins it would be worth it. You would need your babysitter on double-duty though. If you get midas 7,8 min, that means you can only get Porb in 7,8 min, there's no way you can finish bfury in 4 minute, you'll need lik 750 gpm to do that. On October 19 2012 10:14 Blitzkrieg0 wrote:On October 19 2012 08:25 canikizu wrote:On October 19 2012 08:05 Blitzkrieg0 wrote:On October 19 2012 07:36 canikizu wrote:On October 19 2012 06:47 Erasme wrote:
Most of the times it's not worth getting because :
- You can get an item that makes you farm faster (radi/bfury)
- You're a midgame hero so you can't waste 1900g without losing a lot of your midgame power (TA/NS/Slardar)
- You're a support so don't be fucking dumb
- You need an item to be relevant (bkb/blink) All the other reasons are standard, except the radi/bfury one actually. If you can get a midas and have free farm as a carry without disruption, you should almost get radi/bfury as fast as normal time. Preserevance orb: 1750 gold Midas: 1900 gold Now you need to farm 2600 gold for the rest of bfury. One 30sec creepwave gives you 3 melee and 1 range, so you can have ~160 gold, or 320 gold/minute. It takes over 8 minutes to finish 2600 gold with no jungle. With Midas, you can have a little bit of jungle, so you can make ~220 gold per 100 second, so it's about 132 gpm. In 8 minutes when you finish the other 2600 gold, Midas should net you over 1000 gold, and you only need to farm another 800 gold to finish bfury. Not bad for an item that gives you free gold throughout the game and the +atk speed goes nice with +60 damage from bfury. and what happens when the enemy team realizes you wasted your gold on a useless item and don't let you farm? Then it's the same with building bfury. The enemy will not let you farm anyway. The point of building midas is to take advantage of the free farm you have, so if the enemy gank you to dead, they will gank you to dead whenever you're trying to build bfury or radiance anyway. With Midas build, you simply replace the Preserevance Orb with Midas, after that you can go POrb for the regen if your lane is getting hard (because heroes level up, spells getting more dangerous) or just go Claymore like you do after POrb to provide dps. and faster farm (+atk speed +damage) Imagine if the enemies gank you hard when you finish POrb, what can you do with it? Even with POrb, you still have a hard time jungle in such early stage, but if you already finish Midas, you can still jungle and get at least a constant free 132gpm from Midas. You can't get that money from POrb. Battlefury parts actually build into useful laning items. Regen from a ring of health is pretty good early on. Attack speed in contrast is almost useless early on. You have a much bigger window of getting owned in lane if you go midas as opposed to rushing battlefury. You will also need to buy additional regen because you don't have a ring of health. Saying midas is good when it works and bad when it doesn't is a stupid argument for it being superior. There is an area between the two absolutes (free farm and getting ganked) in there where you won't get harassed out of lane if you have a ring of health, but you would if you were building towards midas since you have no way to sustain yourself. If the enemy is just going to let you afk farm the entire game you could build anything and win. I'd also like to add that finishing the perseverance first is almost never the best option. Unless you need the additional mana regen then you should get the damage items prior to getting the voidstone since you have no use for it. I think a lot of people missing the point that I made: you need to have good free farm in the beginning. For example, you have 900 gold and but still haven't used 6 tango you bought yet. What's the point of getting a regen ring when you have that much free farm and that much regen consumables left? The most logical way is to go for the claymore before getting regen ring, you can get it later when you use up the tangos. OR you can rush for a midas. The point I want to make here is: there is an option to go for midas if you have good farm, and going midas will only put you behind in a short run just a little bit but the benefit from having +30atk speed and free gold is much better for the long run. You have 2 options instead of blindly going for 1. Going midas or going the traditional build depend on how you read the games at that particular time. Going Midas is a risk, sure, but it all depends on how you perceive how manageable that risk is and go for bigger reward. I've seen an 11 min battlefury on am before in a pro game. The reason why people go battle fury with antimage is because it's a huge source of damage, after battle fury they go manta and you're pretty decent at team fights already. For midas if you're going to use it to buy manta you're missing +65 damage, which is significant if you ask me, it also allows you to push faster unlike midas where by you can only convert one creep every 100 seconds, the time you take to kill those creeps faster can be used to jungle or what not. No, Battle Fury is not built primarily as a source of damage. While the damage is not the main reason why you buy a battle fury, 65 damage is by no means little. Getting battlefury followed by manta allows you to go for a heart next and still deal pretty high damage, excluding mana burn.
You just claimed that "The reason why people go battle fury with antimage is because it's a huge source of damage", which is simply not true. If you wanted damage there would be lots of other items to get. Combined with your blink the BF allows you to let your farmspeed explode (insteaclear lane -> clear jungle -> insteaclear other shit -> repeat), the only hero in the game who laughs at your farmspeed is Alchemist. The Battlefury itself doesn't do anything, you want to make things happen at the timing where you have BF+Treads+Manta+Vitbooster.
Fights before that point are very hard to judge and very easy to fuck up on the AMs part if the enemy team forces the issue. The goal should be to let others go in first and clean up possible kills, not to try and be a herocarry.
From what I understand about e.g. Tranquils -> Midas -> Manta -> Vitbooster on AM it's about the specific 2nd item timing which will come out faster than with a Boots 1 -> BF -> Treads -> Manta -> Vitbooster build. There are some specific cases (tough lane + enemy team likely to cause lots of trouble before the "normal" BF -> Manta" timing) where it can be a good idea to have the Manta a few minutes earlier at the cost of your Heart being a few minutes later.
Whether there are options that make more sense in such a situation (e.g. Tranquil -> Vit booster -> Manta) is up for debate, but it probably shouldn't be completely dismissed as an option. In general the idea of getting Midas to boost a specific item timing instead of being like "hurpdurp I got Midas ima afkfarm all game" is pretty interesting.
(Credit for this Midas timing goes to Yango who took the time to explain that idea. <3)
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On October 20 2012 00:17 r.Evo wrote:Show nested quote +On October 19 2012 21:36 KwoM wrote:On October 19 2012 16:23 flamewheel wrote:On October 19 2012 16:06 KwoM wrote:On October 19 2012 11:08 canikizu wrote:On October 19 2012 10:50 Slardar wrote:
Getting Midas on hard melee carries who have a perfectly standard buildup with a Battlefury is asking for a loss. If farm allows it, 10-12 min bfury is going to be superior to 7-8 midas. Unless you can get Midas so quickly, at 5-6 mins it would be worth it. You would need your babysitter on double-duty though. If you get midas 7,8 min, that means you can only get Porb in 7,8 min, there's no way you can finish bfury in 4 minute, you'll need lik 750 gpm to do that. On October 19 2012 10:14 Blitzkrieg0 wrote:On October 19 2012 08:25 canikizu wrote:On October 19 2012 08:05 Blitzkrieg0 wrote:On October 19 2012 07:36 canikizu wrote:On October 19 2012 06:47 Erasme wrote:
Most of the times it's not worth getting because :
- You can get an item that makes you farm faster (radi/bfury)
- You're a midgame hero so you can't waste 1900g without losing a lot of your midgame power (TA/NS/Slardar)
- You're a support so don't be fucking dumb
- You need an item to be relevant (bkb/blink) All the other reasons are standard, except the radi/bfury one actually. If you can get a midas and have free farm as a carry without disruption, you should almost get radi/bfury as fast as normal time. Preserevance orb: 1750 gold Midas: 1900 gold Now you need to farm 2600 gold for the rest of bfury. One 30sec creepwave gives you 3 melee and 1 range, so you can have ~160 gold, or 320 gold/minute. It takes over 8 minutes to finish 2600 gold with no jungle. With Midas, you can have a little bit of jungle, so you can make ~220 gold per 100 second, so it's about 132 gpm. In 8 minutes when you finish the other 2600 gold, Midas should net you over 1000 gold, and you only need to farm another 800 gold to finish bfury. Not bad for an item that gives you free gold throughout the game and the +atk speed goes nice with +60 damage from bfury. and what happens when the enemy team realizes you wasted your gold on a useless item and don't let you farm? Then it's the same with building bfury. The enemy will not let you farm anyway. The point of building midas is to take advantage of the free farm you have, so if the enemy gank you to dead, they will gank you to dead whenever you're trying to build bfury or radiance anyway. With Midas build, you simply replace the Preserevance Orb with Midas, after that you can go POrb for the regen if your lane is getting hard (because heroes level up, spells getting more dangerous) or just go Claymore like you do after POrb to provide dps. and faster farm (+atk speed +damage) Imagine if the enemies gank you hard when you finish POrb, what can you do with it? Even with POrb, you still have a hard time jungle in such early stage, but if you already finish Midas, you can still jungle and get at least a constant free 132gpm from Midas. You can't get that money from POrb. Battlefury parts actually build into useful laning items. Regen from a ring of health is pretty good early on. Attack speed in contrast is almost useless early on. You have a much bigger window of getting owned in lane if you go midas as opposed to rushing battlefury. You will also need to buy additional regen because you don't have a ring of health. Saying midas is good when it works and bad when it doesn't is a stupid argument for it being superior. There is an area between the two absolutes (free farm and getting ganked) in there where you won't get harassed out of lane if you have a ring of health, but you would if you were building towards midas since you have no way to sustain yourself. If the enemy is just going to let you afk farm the entire game you could build anything and win. I'd also like to add that finishing the perseverance first is almost never the best option. Unless you need the additional mana regen then you should get the damage items prior to getting the voidstone since you have no use for it. I think a lot of people missing the point that I made: you need to have good free farm in the beginning. For example, you have 900 gold and but still haven't used 6 tango you bought yet. What's the point of getting a regen ring when you have that much free farm and that much regen consumables left? The most logical way is to go for the claymore before getting regen ring, you can get it later when you use up the tangos. OR you can rush for a midas. The point I want to make here is: there is an option to go for midas if you have good farm, and going midas will only put you behind in a short run just a little bit but the benefit from having +30atk speed and free gold is much better for the long run. You have 2 options instead of blindly going for 1. Going midas or going the traditional build depend on how you read the games at that particular time. Going Midas is a risk, sure, but it all depends on how you perceive how manageable that risk is and go for bigger reward. I've seen an 11 min battlefury on am before in a pro game. The reason why people go battle fury with antimage is because it's a huge source of damage, after battle fury they go manta and you're pretty decent at team fights already. For midas if you're going to use it to buy manta you're missing +65 damage, which is significant if you ask me, it also allows you to push faster unlike midas where by you can only convert one creep every 100 seconds, the time you take to kill those creeps faster can be used to jungle or what not. No, Battle Fury is not built primarily as a source of damage. While the damage is not the main reason why you buy a battle fury, 65 damage is by no means little. Getting battlefury followed by manta allows you to go for a heart next and still deal pretty high damage, excluding mana burn. You just claimed that "The reason why people go battle fury with antimage is because it's a huge source of damage", which is simply not true. If you wanted damage there would be lots of other items to get. Combined with your blink the BF allows you to let your farmspeed explode (insteaclear lane -> clear jungle -> insteaclear other shit -> repeat), the only hero in the game who laughs at your farmspeed is Alchemist. The Battlefury itself doesn't do anything, you want to make things happen at the timing where you have BF+Treads+Manta+Vitbooster. Fights before that point are very hard to judge and very easy to fuck up on the AMs part if the enemy team forces the issue. The goal should be to let others go in first and clean up possible kills, not to try and be a herocarry. From what I understand about e.g. Tranquils -> Midas -> Manta -> Vitbooster on AM it's about the specific 2nd item timing which will come out faster than with a Boots 1 -> BF -> Treads -> Manta -> Vitbooster build. There are some specific cases (tough lane + enemy team likely to cause lots of trouble before the "normal" BF -> Manta" timing) where it can be a good idea to have the Manta a few minutes earlier at the cost of your Heart being a few minutes later. Whether there are options that make more sense in such a situation (e.g. Tranquil -> Vit booster -> Manta) is up for debate, but it probably shouldn't be completely dismissed as an option. In general the idea of getting Midas to boost a specific item timing instead of being like "hurpdurp I got Midas ima afkfarm all game" is pretty interesting. (Credit for this Midas timing goes to Yango who took the time to explain that idea. <3)
My mistake for not explaining it clearly, what i meant was that it increases your nett damage significantly. The advantages of battlefury over midas is the ability to apply pressure. And why i feel that battle fury is better than a midas is due to the fast that with battlefury and manta you're pretty strong already as compared to a midas whereby you'd require a third item before your dealing lots of damage.
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Once again: The battlefury doesn't do much for actual fights. The regen is mostly worthless for teamfights, the +dmg is neat but not a lot compared to real damage items. Your illusions don't get ANY of the stats the BF provides. It is. Not. A. Damage. Item.
BF vs Midas, as I just explained, is about the specific Manta timing.
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On October 19 2012 10:56 flamewheel wrote:Show nested quote +On October 19 2012 09:39 Testuser wrote:
I late-late game - which six items would you have on Void?
Show nested quote +On October 19 2012 09:59 Slardar wrote:
Treads, Battlefury, Satanic, Butterfly, Daedalus then MKB or Assault C. Depends on enemy team composition. Items listed above are extremely offensive--meaning they are lacking BKB. Travels not Treads. BKB is super important against many lineups--sacrifices a bit of damage but increases survivability by a ton and pretty much guarantees you will kill anybody inside your Chronosphere. As a base case, definitely Travels, Satanic, and Butterfly. Against a lineup replete with disables, BKB super useful. MKB against other evasion-wielding carries, Daedalus otherwise. Battle Fury can be kept for creep-clearing ability but Manta Style gives more damage overall and utility against silences and debuffs.
That was pretty much the items I had. Travels, Battle Fury, Daedalus, Satanic, MKB and Buttefly. They had disables, but my team had my back. I was just wondering, since I ended up with and excess of 12k, if I possibly could have chosen better items.
What about this: Sell the Battle Fury, buy two Rapiers, have one of them in the well, the other on you, go fight the other team, if you die, buyback + take extra rapier + use travels to get to them = gg? or?
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On October 19 2012 21:36 KwoM wrote:Show nested quote +On October 19 2012 16:23 flamewheel wrote:On October 19 2012 16:06 KwoM wrote:On October 19 2012 11:08 canikizu wrote:On October 19 2012 10:50 Slardar wrote:
Getting Midas on hard melee carries who have a perfectly standard buildup with a Battlefury is asking for a loss. If farm allows it, 10-12 min bfury is going to be superior to 7-8 midas. Unless you can get Midas so quickly, at 5-6 mins it would be worth it. You would need your babysitter on double-duty though. If you get midas 7,8 min, that means you can only get Porb in 7,8 min, there's no way you can finish bfury in 4 minute, you'll need lik 750 gpm to do that. On October 19 2012 10:14 Blitzkrieg0 wrote:On October 19 2012 08:25 canikizu wrote:On October 19 2012 08:05 Blitzkrieg0 wrote:On October 19 2012 07:36 canikizu wrote:On October 19 2012 06:47 Erasme wrote:
Most of the times it's not worth getting because :
- You can get an item that makes you farm faster (radi/bfury)
- You're a midgame hero so you can't waste 1900g without losing a lot of your midgame power (TA/NS/Slardar)
- You're a support so don't be fucking dumb
- You need an item to be relevant (bkb/blink) All the other reasons are standard, except the radi/bfury one actually. If you can get a midas and have free farm as a carry without disruption, you should almost get radi/bfury as fast as normal time. Preserevance orb: 1750 gold Midas: 1900 gold Now you need to farm 2600 gold for the rest of bfury. One 30sec creepwave gives you 3 melee and 1 range, so you can have ~160 gold, or 320 gold/minute. It takes over 8 minutes to finish 2600 gold with no jungle. With Midas, you can have a little bit of jungle, so you can make ~220 gold per 100 second, so it's about 132 gpm. In 8 minutes when you finish the other 2600 gold, Midas should net you over 1000 gold, and you only need to farm another 800 gold to finish bfury. Not bad for an item that gives you free gold throughout the game and the +atk speed goes nice with +60 damage from bfury. and what happens when the enemy team realizes you wasted your gold on a useless item and don't let you farm? Then it's the same with building bfury. The enemy will not let you farm anyway. The point of building midas is to take advantage of the free farm you have, so if the enemy gank you to dead, they will gank you to dead whenever you're trying to build bfury or radiance anyway. With Midas build, you simply replace the Preserevance Orb with Midas, after that you can go POrb for the regen if your lane is getting hard (because heroes level up, spells getting more dangerous) or just go Claymore like you do after POrb to provide dps. and faster farm (+atk speed +damage) Imagine if the enemies gank you hard when you finish POrb, what can you do with it? Even with POrb, you still have a hard time jungle in such early stage, but if you already finish Midas, you can still jungle and get at least a constant free 132gpm from Midas. You can't get that money from POrb. Battlefury parts actually build into useful laning items. Regen from a ring of health is pretty good early on. Attack speed in contrast is almost useless early on. You have a much bigger window of getting owned in lane if you go midas as opposed to rushing battlefury. You will also need to buy additional regen because you don't have a ring of health. Saying midas is good when it works and bad when it doesn't is a stupid argument for it being superior. There is an area between the two absolutes (free farm and getting ganked) in there where you won't get harassed out of lane if you have a ring of health, but you would if you were building towards midas since you have no way to sustain yourself. If the enemy is just going to let you afk farm the entire game you could build anything and win. I'd also like to add that finishing the perseverance first is almost never the best option. Unless you need the additional mana regen then you should get the damage items prior to getting the voidstone since you have no use for it. I think a lot of people missing the point that I made: you need to have good free farm in the beginning. For example, you have 900 gold and but still haven't used 6 tango you bought yet. What's the point of getting a regen ring when you have that much free farm and that much regen consumables left? The most logical way is to go for the claymore before getting regen ring, you can get it later when you use up the tangos. OR you can rush for a midas. The point I want to make here is: there is an option to go for midas if you have good farm, and going midas will only put you behind in a short run just a little bit but the benefit from having +30atk speed and free gold is much better for the long run. You have 2 options instead of blindly going for 1. Going midas or going the traditional build depend on how you read the games at that particular time. Going Midas is a risk, sure, but it all depends on how you perceive how manageable that risk is and go for bigger reward. I've seen an 11 min battlefury on am before in a pro game. The reason why people go battle fury with antimage is because it's a huge source of damage, after battle fury they go manta and you're pretty decent at team fights already. For midas if you're going to use it to buy manta you're missing +65 damage, which is significant if you ask me, it also allows you to push faster unlike midas where by you can only convert one creep every 100 seconds, the time you take to kill those creeps faster can be used to jungle or what not. No, Battle Fury is not built primarily as a source of damage. While the damage is not the main reason why you buy a battle fury, 65 damage is by no means little. Getting battlefury followed by manta allows you to go for a heart next and still deal pretty high damage, excluding mana burn.
If you really read what were posted for the last 2 pages, you'll see that I was not talking about skipping bfury. I was talking about considering getting midas, then getting bfury. +65 damage is nice sure, but what about +65 damage +30 atk speed sounds?
If you have 11min bfury, you need go get at least a couple of hero kill. There's simply no way you can farm creep and get it.
There's some basic map mechanics that people need to understand that sometimes it's impossible to do something.
- You only have 3 melee and 1 range creep spawning in 30 seconds, there's catapult sometimes. So on the good day, the best you can do is 350 gpm (which should not net you a bfury in 11 minutes). After 17:30, there's 1 more melee creep, so you can get up to 430 gpm easily just by farming lane creep (not counting jungle)
- The jungle size is about ~9,000, 10,000 units. that means if your movespeed is 370(standard on carry heroes), you have to spend 24, 27 sec to go from tier 3 to tier 1 unobstructedly. That left you 28 seconds to farm all 5 creep camps (need to kill creep before 55 seconds) and lane creeps. It's hard enough already, except some particular heroes, no other heroes can do it until late late games where you can 3,4 shot a creep stack.
If you rewatch the games where your carry heroes got 11, 13min bfury, do you see him going jungle a lot, or just still stay at the lane where bfury doesn't really matter? With such an early bfury, you don't really benefit that much from it, the best you can do is you are able to farm 2 creep camp near the lane, which well, midas can help you do that too, faster and cheaper too.
That is why I don't want to use AM, or even Tboot/Pboot Luna as examples, because their ability distorts the fact too much. The blink ability shaves off so much move time and allow AM to farm all the jungle and creep lane easily. Luna with high speed (base speed, Tboot/Pboot, shadow blade, yasha), better cleave is also a great jungler.
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...I was talking about skipping BF. Sigh.
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On October 20 2012 01:41 r.Evo wrote:
...I was talking about skipping BF. Sigh.
And I was not replying to your post.
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Why is magic wand considered to be such a good item? is it because it build out of gg branches that you get at the start?
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FREEAGLELAND26782 Posts
Yes, though I cringe when support players grab the recipe too early. 159 gold for the wand recipe just combines the items together smoothly (four slots turn into one) and increase charge max. But again getting it too early is a waste if finances are tight since you won't hit 15 charges in small-scale skirmishes.
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United States47024 Posts
On October 20 2012 03:57 LazyFailKid wrote:
Why is magic wand considered to be such a good item? is it because it build out of gg branches that you get at the start?
Stocking up charges for a critical moment makes it effectively a burst of 225 HP+Mana when you need it. That's just an insanely good effect to get for the cost.
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On October 20 2012 04:00 flamewheel wrote:
Yes, though I cringe when support players grab the recipe too early. 159 gold for the wand recipe just combines the items together smoothly (four slots turn into one) and increase charge max. But again getting it too early is a waste if finances are tight since you won't hit 15 charges in small-scale skirmishes.
I usually get the urge to combine the items because the individual items take up so much space. 3 branches, 1 leftover tango, tp scroll, obs/sentry wards takes up 7 item slots, then boots for the 8th.
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On October 20 2012 04:29 Heh_ wrote:Show nested quote +On October 20 2012 04:00 flamewheel wrote:
Yes, though I cringe when support players grab the recipe too early. 159 gold for the wand recipe just combines the items together smoothly (four slots turn into one) and increase charge max. But again getting it too early is a waste if finances are tight since you won't hit 15 charges in small-scale skirmishes. I usually get the urge to combine the items because the individual items take up so much space. 3 branches, 1 leftover tango, tp scroll, obs/sentry wards takes up 7 item slots, then boots for the 8th.
by too early i think he means before boots
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On October 20 2012 01:47 canikizu wrote:Show nested quote +On October 20 2012 01:41 r.Evo wrote:
...I was talking about skipping BF. Sigh. And I was not replying to your post.
but the person you quoted was talking about evos post
basically you just replied to someone who wasnt even talking to you lol
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On October 19 2012 11:45 RuiBarbO wrote:
So this is a really broad question, but in general, what are some good ways to analyze my play and look for ways to improve? What are some important questions I should be asking myself after a bad (or a good) game?
Look at a replay and think "what could I have done better?" and "what am I doing wrong?". Being self critical is the first step out of what I used to call "forever 1600" on HoN. You basically critique yourself harshly as you watch your replays so that you can improve. There's never a replacement for actual experience but to spot the errors of your ways and then try to "fix" them in the next game is a great way to improve.
Generally look at your positioning during the laning phase, your last hitting, creep control, harassment, etc. It also helps to view your positioning during important team fights (use the free-hand cam, not player perspective or directed) to spot how you're reacting to different situations and how you should have reacted.
If I play a bad game, I always try to blame myself. Sometimes it won't even be your fault, but you'll improve so long as you spot the errors you make. A lost game is a waste if you don't learn anything from it. 
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So I played a game a few days ago where basically my team forced me, Skeleton King, to face in shortlane against a Sniper and PoTM. As in, alone. Of course a brood mother was top who was perfectly capable of soloing the lane and a KoTL who could have supported me, but nonetheless, I was forced into this situation. I managed to sneak a few kills in to stay afloat on the shitty Sniper, but that wouldn't have happened against better players. What could I have done in this situation, bar just abandoning the tower? I feel like if I got a few more ganks in from the jungling Axe, it would have put a bit more fear in to them but it was essentially impossible for me to last hit until like 8 minutes.
Basically, how do you as a melee hero solo against 2 ranged, or is it seriously just throwaway? I know most of my situation was purely bad team syndrome, but I feel like it may come up again in the future so I'd like to have some semblance of a plan
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wrong thread, can a mod delete my post ?
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Is it possible to buy a ticket individually for the gsl final?
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On October 20 2012 08:03 Fruscainte wrote:So I played a game a few days ago where basically my team forced me, Skeleton King, to face in shortlane against a Sniper and PoTM. As in, alone. Of course a brood mother was top who was perfectly capable of soloing the lane and a KoTL who could have supported me, but nonetheless, I was forced into this situation. I managed to sneak a few kills in to stay afloat on the shitty Sniper, but that wouldn't have happened against better players. What could I have done in this situation, bar just abandoning the tower? I feel like if I got a few more ganks in from the jungling Axe, it would have put a bit more fear in to them but it was essentially impossible for me to last hit until like 8 minutes. Basically, how do you as a melee hero solo against 2 ranged, or is it seriously just throwaway? I know most of my situation was purely bad team syndrome, but I feel like it may come up again in the future so I'd like to have some semblance of a plan
Im not an amazing player or anything but I feel pretty confident saying that there was nothing you could do. If they wanted/knew how to im sure they could have completely zoned you by level 1 basically. If I were you in that situation I would throw a point in vamp aura asap and go to the jungle, or if that isnt possible then just sit at tower.
I guess alternatively you could buy a billion clarities and last hit with your stun lmao.
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EPT
