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FREEAGLELAND26782 Posts
Agreed with Dead9. The only times I get both Quelling Blade & Stout Shield are either when I random, or I'm playing a very specific lane--Faceless Void & Lich on safe, where Lich pools me a Tango after I get my own Salve, Quelling Blade, and Stout Shield.
On October 12 2012 07:35 RuiBarbO wrote:
So I just recently played a string of games where I pretty much sucked as TA because I couldn't figure out how to participate effectively in team fights, especially before I got a BKB. So I more or less just ran around the map trying to farm up levels, which did not make my teammates very happy (and which was pretty boring for me too). Is there something I am missing about using TA after the laning phase? How should I be approaching team fights in a more effective way, or should I instead avoid them and just try to pick off vulnerable lone heroes?
I'm going to assume you're playing solo mid TA, and that you're getting Bottle, Phase Boots/Power Treads, and Blink Dagger before you go for a Black King Bar. If you are playing solo mid and you are not doing this, give it a whirl. If you are playing side lane TA, let me know and I will adjust this advice.
Despite having splash damage with Psi Blades, TA excels at hunting down lone heroes, specifically supports. Supports without disables are absolute food for you. Instead of farming creep in lanes, utilize runes (and/or smoke) and pick people off--as a result of suppressing your enemies you will be comparably stronger. Keep your traps on runes and ganking routes that you will want to take. Having one trap up already when ganking an enemy will allow you to place another one "for free" during the chase, so even if you get disabled the enemy won't be running far.
If the enemy is traveling in packs, then so should your team. For early-mid skirmishes, pre-Blink Dagger focus on hitting multiple people with your traps, then chase after weakened enemies. Remember that you have a 2000 casting range on traps, so you can be assisting your allies if you don't need the traps yourself to kill your prey. Post-Dagger, either run up to or blink into people and start hitting them.
Of course, this doesn't mean to give up on farming completely. Take lanes when you can--either when your first position isn't around or when there is no way for you to gank (waiting on runes, vulnerable enemies are dead, enemy team is grouped).
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On October 12 2012 12:10 flamewheel wrote:Agreed with Dead9. The only times I get both Quelling Blade & Stout Shield are either when I random, or I'm playing a very specific lane--Faceless Void & Lich on safe, where Lich pools me a Tango after I get my own Salve, Quelling Blade, and Stout Shield. Show nested quote +On October 12 2012 07:35 RuiBarbO wrote:
So I just recently played a string of games where I pretty much sucked as TA because I couldn't figure out how to participate effectively in team fights, especially before I got a BKB. So I more or less just ran around the map trying to farm up levels, which did not make my teammates very happy (and which was pretty boring for me too). Is there something I am missing about using TA after the laning phase? How should I be approaching team fights in a more effective way, or should I instead avoid them and just try to pick off vulnerable lone heroes? I'm going to assume you're playing solo mid TA, and that you're getting Bottle, Phase Boots/Power Treads, and Blink Dagger before you go for a Black King Bar. If you are playing solo mid and you are not doing this, give it a whirl. If you are playing side lane TA, let me know and I will adjust this advice. Despite having splash damage with Psi Blades, TA excels at hunting down lone heroes, specifically supports. Supports without disables are absolute food for you. Instead of farming creep in lanes, utilize runes (and/or smoke) and pick people off--as a result of suppressing your enemies you will be comparably stronger. Keep your traps on runes and ganking routes that you will want to take. Having one trap up already when ganking an enemy will allow you to place another one "for free" during the chase, so even if you get disabled the enemy won't be running far. If the enemy is traveling in packs, then so should your team. For early-mid skirmishes, pre-Blink Dagger focus on hitting multiple people with your traps, then chase after weakened enemies. Remember that you have a 2000 casting range on traps, so you can be assisting your allies if you don't need the traps yourself to kill your prey. Post-Dagger, either run up to or blink into people and start hitting them. Of course, this doesn't mean to give up on farming completely. Take lanes when you can--either when your first position isn't around or when there is no way for you to gank (waiting on runes, vulnerable enemies are dead, enemy team is grouped).
Thanks for the advice! I will give all of this a try.
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Quelling blade doesn't help you to improve your last hitting, you shouldn't be reliant on it to farm.
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Does doom stop passives from working too? for example luna's bouncing glaives or phantom lancers juxtapose? I've set myself on doombringer and hope his ult stops the carry people are feeding from killing our entire team.
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On October 12 2012 14:07 LazyFailKid wrote:
Does doom stop passives from working too? for example luna's bouncing glaives or phantom lancers juxtapose? I've set myself on doombringer and hope his ult stops the carry people are feeding from killing our entire team.
it stops most passive, i couldn't name all the big ones but he hard counters PA since it stops her ult
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FREEAGLELAND26782 Posts
On October 12 2012 14:08 YunhOLee wrote:Show nested quote +On October 12 2012 14:07 LazyFailKid wrote:
Does doom stop passives from working too? for example luna's bouncing glaives or phantom lancers juxtapose? I've set myself on doombringer and hope his ult stops the carry people are feeding from killing our entire team. it stops most passive, i couldn't name all the big ones but he hard counters PA since it stops her ult
Hmm I'm going to test my memory and try to name stuff...
Doom isn't absorbed by Pipe (meaning still deals damage). Obviously, all actives are disabled. Lord of Avernus has two ways of removing Doom. Borrowed Time removes Doom when it triggers. And there was something about Aphotic Shield where you could cast it on somebody about to be doomed and it would remove it if you reached your cast point. Kraken Shell and Dark Pact used to be able to remove Doom. Culling Blade still does (though technically that's removing allied Doom).
Stuff blocked (listing randomly)
- All active items
- Percentage activation chances - Maelstrom, Mjollnir, MKB
- Cleave - Battle Fury, Greater Cleave, Empower
- Radiance burn damage
- Critical strikes
- True Strike from MKB
- True Sight from Gem (if Gem holder is Doomed then he/she loses true sight for duration of Doom)
- Lifesteal and Feedback orbs (not sure about Skadi, if I recall correctly should be difference between ranged and melee slow)
- Evasion (note that Faceless Void's Backtrack is not disabled since it isn't Evasion)
- Dragon Knight's Frost (level 3 dragon) is disabled but the splash is not
- Riki's Permanent Invisibility and Broodmother's Web invisibility
Abilities not blocked
- All auras
- Anti-Mage's Spell Shield
- Axe's Counter Helix
- Bloodseeker's Blood Bath and Thirst
- Bristleback's Warpath and Bristleback
- Dragon Knight's Dragon Blood
- Enchantress's Untouchable
- Huskar's Berserker's Blood
- Luna's Moon Glaives
- Morphling's Morph (either direction) still works but can't be turned off
- Naix's Feast
- Necrolyte's Sadist
- Night Stalker's Hunter in the Night
- Phantom Lancer's Juxtapose and Phantom Edge
- Pudge's Rot still works but can't be turned off
- Razor's Unstable Current
- Riki's Backstab
- Skeleton King's Reincarnation
- Silencer's Last Word
- Spectre's Desolate and Dispersion
- Spiritbreaker's Greater Bash works but Slardar's Bash and Faceless Void's Time Lock don't
- Techies' Land Mines & Stasis Traps that have already been planted can be activated
- Templar Assassin's Refraction will block Doom (but Doom will eat its charges)
- Tiny's Craggy Exterior
- Ursa's Enrage
- Viper's Nethertoxin and Corrosive Skin
- Wisp's Overcharge (can't be turned off during Doom)
- Wisp's Relocate still can send Wisp (and Tethered ally) back even when Doomed
- Wisp's Tether (if already Tethered)
I feel like I'm missing some. Everything listed is also for DotA... Not sure if some of the quirks have translated to Dota2.
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Lalalaland34501 Posts
Doom is one of those spells that even after years of Dota I still say 'ohhhh so it blocks that but doesn't block that...'
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What are the best hard carries into lategame in 1v2-3 fights (assuming a reasonable gpm like 30-40mins in so 20000-30000 gold)?
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On October 12 2012 20:13 SnipedAgain wrote:
What are the best hard carries into lategame in 1v2-3 fights (assuming a reasonable gpm like 30-40mins in so 20000-30000 gold)?
20000 and 30000 is pretty ridiculously high any hero should own with that. Anyway usual like luna void any hard carry basically semi carries as well. A crystal maiden with dagon 5 bkb and e-blade can take down heroes also.
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Lalalaland34501 Posts
On October 12 2012 21:18 KwoM wrote:Show nested quote +On October 12 2012 20:13 SnipedAgain wrote:
What are the best hard carries into lategame in 1v2-3 fights (assuming a reasonable gpm like 30-40mins in so 20000-30000 gold)? 20000 and 30000 is pretty ridiculously high any hero should own with that. Anyway usual like luna void any hard carry basically semi carries as well. A crystal maiden with dagon 5 bkb and e-blade can take down heroes also.
A cm probably won't 1v3. A void or luna certainly can though.
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On October 12 2012 20:13 SnipedAgain wrote:
What are the best hard carries into lategame in 1v2-3 fights (assuming a reasonable gpm like 30-40mins in so 20000-30000 gold)?
if theyre as stacked as possible and the opposing team isnt 2-3 carries
then id say pa #1
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Is there a spot to put blue wards to clear our your pull camp from wards? Whenever someone blocks my pull camp I always try to unblock it but I keep on blocking it with my own wards >.<.
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Dam, guess he would be op if it stopped the main dmg source from all carries lol
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On October 13 2012 10:24 .AK wrote:
Is there a spot to put blue wards to clear our your pull camp from wards? Whenever someone blocks my pull camp I always try to unblock it but I keep on blocking it with my own wards >.<.
http://www.playdota.com/mechanics/neutralcreeps
Then use geometry to maximize coverage.
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If you are Void against a Dark Seer, he uses his ulti, so theres a Void illusion, is it immune to Choronosphere? arghh DS -.-
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What should I focus on when playing the 5 position in pubs? Should I be trying to pull as much as I can or should I just try to harass/deny and sit in lane? I realize this is probably a case by case basis but I get lose sometimes in lane.
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FREEAGLELAND26782 Posts
On October 13 2012 15:47 Obelisco wrote:
If you are Void against a Dark Seer, he uses his ulti, so theres a Void illusion, is it immune to Choronosphere? arghh DS -.-
No only stuff owned by Void isn't stopped in Chronosphere.
On October 13 2012 16:14 .AK wrote:
What should I focus on when playing the 5 position in pubs? Should I be trying to pull as much as I can or should I just try to harass/deny and sit in lane? I realize this is probably a case by case basis but I get lose sometimes in lane.
Depends. When you leave the lane to pull/ward/gank, whoever you are babysitting will have a harder time last hitting. If who you are supporting can hold his/her own while you are gone, then stack and pull. Generally speaking, if your farmer can do that he or she can also handle last hitting under the tower. As a 5th position you need to be getting money and experience as well somehow, and pulling gives you both while weakening the opposition.
If your farmer can't farm while you are gone, then stay with him/her. Obvious examples include being a 600 range support in lane with a melee farmer against another ranged support/two ranged enemies. For an example of when you can go stack & pull, take a safe lane Shadow Fiend for instance against a solo enemy. For the first level, you zone the enemy solo while your Shadow Fiend boosts his damage through Necromastery. He is then able to dominate the lane on his own, so you are free to stack and pull continuously.
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On October 13 2012 16:14 .AK wrote:
What should I focus on when playing the 5 position in pubs? Should I be trying to pull as much as I can or should I just try to harass/deny and sit in lane? I realize this is probably a case by case basis but I get lose sometimes in lane.
If you're against 2 people in the lane then you generally don't want to go pull because your carry won't be getting farm against 2 opponents (and he might even die). You need to be there to harass back and give him room to get last hits and protect him, and potentially get kills for your lane when you see the chance. The only exception to this is if the creepwave ends up staying inside their tower or is right outside of it for way too long and you need to get it back closer to your tower. Then you can go stack and pull a wave to get it back to your tower, but make sure to always be watching out for your carry and letting him know you are doing that so he has time to back up first. Of course there are some instances where the 2 opponents in lane end up not being a threat at all depending on what heroes they are, at which point you can just stack/pull if your carry is someone who is at no risk of dying and is able to get their farm still against 2 people. But that probably also means that you can just kill them if they aren't a threat to him solo.
When it's against a solo, it depends on who the solo is. If it's someone that you can kill, then kill them (it'll be hard to do this to better players though, no matter what hero they're on, because they know how to position themselves and not get caught). If it's someone who you can't kill no matter what, or they are hanging really far back in safety, then just stack and pull all day, while in the meantime doing your best to harass him and keep him out of exp range in between pulls. Stacking/pulling against a solo laner who you won't be able to kill is extremely beneficial because of not only the fact that you are denying him exp and farm by killing your own creepwaves, but you are letting your carry get solo exp while you also get your own exp and farm for yourself. It's accomplishing 3 things at once basically that are all better than sitting in lane with your carry, which is why it's a very good thing to do.
Also remember to never, ever pull a single stack camp unless you are able to bring a 2nd group in from another camp to pull the creeps even more, or unless you are intending to push the tower with a double creepwave after pulling. Single stacks won't deny all the creeps that you pull onto them and it'll only end up pushing the lane and giving your opponent exp/farm inside their tower instead of being able to keep the wave closer to your tower.
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On October 12 2012 21:40 Firebolt145 wrote:Show nested quote +On October 12 2012 21:18 KwoM wrote:On October 12 2012 20:13 SnipedAgain wrote:
What are the best hard carries into lategame in 1v2-3 fights (assuming a reasonable gpm like 30-40mins in so 20000-30000 gold)? 20000 and 30000 is pretty ridiculously high any hero should own with that. Anyway usual like luna void any hard carry basically semi carries as well. A crystal maiden with dagon 5 bkb and e-blade can take down heroes also. A cm probably won't 1v3. A void or luna certainly can though.
Her ulti is pretty painful if you combine it with shivas dagon 5 bkb and all. It's a no go running into it.
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how to punish a pub pudge early game? and which hero can do it effectively
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EPT
