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FREEAGLELAND26782 Posts
On June 15 2012 11:53 PassiveAce wrote:
Can someone please tell me why we never see omniknight in competition?
On paper he seems like an incredibly powerful support, why isnt he ever seen? is it just because he lacks an escape and disable?
I want to see my favorite hero played more.
Needs farm and levels. Melee hero; bad laner.
I like him though.
Also, his passive is bad.
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Needs farm and levels.
Just put him mid :p
thanks for the quick answer 
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On June 15 2012 11:53 PassiveAce wrote:
Can someone please tell me why we never see omniknight in competition?
On paper he seems like an incredibly powerful support, why isnt he ever seen? is it just because he lacks an escape and disable?
I want to see my favorite hero played more.
Well, there was a period in EU Dota 1 last year where he was insanely popular. Common pick/ban, I think it was about a month or 2 months before The International?
But ye, needs farm and levels as above. Also not helpful in the pushing/counter-pushing aspect.
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I think he suffers from a severe case of diffusal blade. If not for diffusal, He would be awesome.
Still I agree that he should be picked up more, especially if they don't have an agi hero to hold the diffusal well.
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I think he should be picked more... He gives a free bkb which while situational can be very powerful against certain line-up's, his ult would also go great with these super aggressive push strats we see sometimes.
I say put him as a ward-bitch/hard lane support... Sure you lose a disable and a good aura which most ward-bitch/hard supports have, but you get free regen (hence, easier farm) for whoever he's supporting in lane through his heal and as mentioned earlier the free bkb... playing omni in this style, all he needs is a soul ring then mana boots, building towards mek/pipe which most supports can get if their team is winning. He will get targeted first though due to his lack of items, so the player needs good awareness/positioning not to get caught out and need to waste his abilities on himself, but all good support players have this anyway.
I would say his biggest weakness when playing him like this is his lack of ability to get assist gold due to being melee, this can be made-up by his ability to get quick farm when necessary thanks to his heal. Either way it's better than putting him solo mid where other heroes can do more with the farm/quick levels.
In general to me there seems to be not enough thought by top teams as to what the heroes that aren't getting picked can actually bring to a line-up and how they can be used to counter other line-ups.
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On June 15 2012 14:42 LAN-f34r wrote:
I think he suffers from a severe case of diffusal blade. If not for diffusal, He would be awesome.
Still I agree that he should be picked up more, especially if they don't have an agi hero to hold the diffusal well.
He also suffers from a severe case of laning blues.
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Why is it so popular to get 2 null talismans on QoP before getting any bigger items? I've been told it's because you need the mana pool to use your skills, but doesn't int treads and bottle/rune spam take care of that? Plus with the money you save not getting 2 talismans you're almost to a point booster or ultimate orb anyway, right?
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I can't say I've seen 2 nulls on QoP as popular. Generally if you want a null people get one, getting 2 seems odd to me. Treads early game suffers from issue of Attack speed not really being worth it so sinking money into completing treads isn't always the best option if you want to have the mana pool early on for cheap. Laning wise you can start off with one mantle for the increase in damage so converting it into a null isn't that big a deal. Still 2 seems a bit odd, you sure about this being popular in pro scene?
On June 15 2012 15:34 skipgamer wrote:
I think he should be picked more... He gives a free bkb which while situational can be very powerful against certain line-up's, his ult would also go great with these super aggressive push strats we see sometimes.
I say put him as a ward-bitch/hard lane support... Sure you lose a disable and a good aura which most ward-bitch/hard supports have, but you get free regen (hence, easier farm) for whoever he's supporting in lane through his heal and as mentioned earlier the free bkb... playing omni in this style, all he needs is a soul ring then mana boots, building towards mek/pipe which most supports can get if their team is winning. He will get targeted first though due to his lack of items, so the player needs good awareness/positioning not to get caught out and need to waste his abilities on himself, but all good support players have this anyway.
I would say his biggest weakness when playing him like this is his lack of ability to get assist gold due to being melee, this can be made-up by his ability to get quick farm when necessary thanks to his heal. Either way it's better than putting him solo mid where other heroes can do more with the farm/quick levels.
In general to me there seems to be not enough thought by top teams as to what the heroes that aren't getting picked can actually bring to a line-up and how they can be used to counter other line-ups.
Firstly you get assist gold for being within 1000 units of the kill so I don't see how his "biggest" weakness is him not being able to get assist gold. The "assist" you get on the scoreboard is not the same as assist gold. Here's a source :http://www.dota2wiki.com/wiki/Gold and http://www.playdota.com/forums/showthread.php?t=317956
Secondly it's not free regen nor is it a free bkb. You are sacrificing a support that can possibly pressure a lane for one that can't that means his "heal" is in fact not free since another support might be able to stop the damage from ever taking place in lane. His repel is deceptive because it can be removed and it requires him to be in region. This lends itself to a very strict style of play that your enemy might not let you do which then means your carry is not relying on himself for magic immunity and instead another. It works out fine in the structured style but when things get messy then repel starts to lose its appeal as omni might not always be in the exact correct position every time where as a bkb will be so calling it a free bkb in my opinion isn't quite correct. It's magic immunity and quite good until dif blade but it still had weaknesses outside of dif blade.
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On June 16 2012 11:08 Numy wrote:
I can't say I've seen 2 nulls on QoP as popular. Generally if you want a null people get one, getting 2 seems odd to me. Treads early game suffers from issue of Attack speed not really being worth it so sinking money into completing treads isn't always the best option if you want to have the mana pool early on for cheap. Laning wise you can start off with one mantle for the increase in damage so converting it into a null isn't that big a deal. Still 2 seems a bit odd, you sure about this being popular in pro scene?
Sometimes it's 1, but I've seen a TON of games with 2. :/
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Can you link examples because with what you are saying that qop will be fully slotted when carrying a tp scroll. Doesn't quite make sense. A mid qop will almost always have a tp scroll so what you saying is they have generally bottle wand tp treads null null. That's zero item build up to core so do they then sell one of these nulls or not carry around a tp? Just seems very confusing, don't see how there's space in a normal build to go two nulls unless you skip wand but wand is generally amazing on mobile heroes who enter fights a lot. Then if you going two nulls AND treads before any core items you really banking on massive early game advantage to gain upper hand. I guess if you want to almost sacrifice qop midgame to get stronger early-mid so she can say carry 4v5 thus giving space for a hard carry to farm but when qop do this kind of thing they generally rush a bkb not a bunch of nulls.
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I mean eventually they sell it but I'm fairly certain I've seen quite a few games where the QoP gets 2 nulls. I'll take a look around and see if I can find any games in particular. Now that I think about it, it might be when they send QoP in side lanes so she didn't get a bottle maybe? Maybe that's what I'm forgetting about. I'll take a look around and see what I can find.
EDIT: While I'm scanning through a bunch of games with QoP in them I now see that it actually is much more common to get only 1 null. :p I know for a fact that I've seen 2 in at least a few games that I've seen though, unless I'm going crazy, so I'm still curious to find out why they get 2 nulls in those games. Still looking for some, though.
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Honestly I'm not sure why they would get 2 nulls, maybe it was a situational thing you saw where they couldn't get any big component but still needed to be relevant to the game in that moment. If you can find those games it would be cool to look at it.
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Lalalaland34504 Posts
Maybe because there were 2 nulls in the 'suggested items' list. That thing has some really questionable suggestions. :D
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I realize that Mask of Madness is one of those items that have gotten that kind of reputation from being a joke item, but are there situations to use it? Every time I feel like I want it, I just get an armlet or something instead and i do just fine but I was wondering if there are reasons for MoM when I'm not just dicking around.
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On June 16 2012 12:07 Candadar wrote:
I realize that Mask of Madness is one of those items that have gotten that kind of reputation from being a joke item, but are there situations to use it? Every time I feel like I want it, I just get an armlet or something instead and i do just fine but I was wondering if there are reasons for MoM when I'm not just dicking around.
I really like it when i play jugger or void and the game is not going too well, so i have to join early fights (or the game is going very well and i want to join early fights ). But I don't get it on any other hero. These 2 can benefit from it greatly though, due to their ultis. The problem of it is that you can't "stand and fight", but then why have +100 AS. Also with a good enigma or other AOE stun, it could be useful. But then you are banking on him hitting a perfect black hole.
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mTw has a viper + omniknight strategy that they used at least 3 times in competition (they won all 3).
Basically they take the towers with the shielded viper in front, orbing whoever comes close, then heal then repeat. The omni is laned solomid. It's really effective from those 3 games.
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Anyone remember the attributes of Arcane Ring? I can't even find it with a Google search.
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edit: 3 armor 300 mana
rop + manaorb + 525 recipe
135 mana on 33s cd
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On June 16 2012 12:07 Candadar wrote:
I realize that Mask of Madness is one of those items that have gotten that kind of reputation from being a joke item, but are there situations to use it? Every time I feel like I want it, I just get an armlet or something instead and i do just fine but I was wondering if there are reasons for MoM when I'm not just dicking around.
Sometimes I like to get it on enchantress. This is highly game/team dependent but if their team is lacking in low-cd nukes or long range nukes/stuns you can get away with it. The key is just knowing when to get in and out of the fight to avoid any lockdown. It is freaking hilarious how quickly you can bring someone down too. It is a one-shot thing though, you will go through all your mana in about 4 seconds. To completely demolish 1-2 heroes though, it is worth it. It will also make you a better player by ensuring you are counting the nukes/stuns and keeping proper positioning in teamfights. One mistake and your 900 health pool is gone.
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EPT
