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On December 29 2018 08:14 crappen wrote:Show nested quote +On December 29 2018 04:32 Buckyman wrote:
Watch your minimap. Part of your job is to keep track of the heroes that can kill you.
Try to be in fog when the fight starts. If you "tip over and die if they even look at me", don't let them look at you for free.
Once the fight is underway, position yourself so that other players can help if you get jumped. If their carry goes all-in on killing you and dies as a result, you did your job.
Finally, build into an item that buys you a few seconds in a bad position. Depending on the matchup, glimmer cape, ghost scepter and force staff can all be good options. If an enemy spends precious BKB time and ability cooldowns chasing you without killing you, that's often as good as stunning them. Thanks, I watched purge play shadow shaman and learned a bit what you said, how he waited so much. It's hard to know when it's time for your stuff, but if waiting in shadows, having an item to bait their abilities and killing me is the answer that helps me understand the perspective. What I think I learned the most, is how he took his time going putting wards and didn't care that much for xp/gpm. I feel likeif I don't stay in lane, leveling up, getting denies it just spirals out of controls. But I do have more forgiveness there as a support? Do you have any advice on what support heroes not to choose during certain matchups? It's probably impossible to say that, but if you look at top 20 picks, does that narrow it down better? If I had a pool of 3 support heroes to pick from, depending on enemy team, that would be sweet, but I have no clue at all.
Support doesn't usually get counter-picked, so I wouldn't worry much about match-ups. If you are just starting out and dying a lot, try picking supports that are not item dependent. Some examples: Ogre Magi, Lich, Lion, Jaikiro, Bane, Rubick (hard to play if you don't know the game well, but helps you learn the skills faster if you don't play any other roles).
A helpful tip is to make sure you tome of knowledge whenever its off CD in shop to keep up with the levels.
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On December 29 2018 08:14 crappen wrote:Show nested quote +On December 29 2018 04:32 Buckyman wrote:
Watch your minimap. Part of your job is to keep track of the heroes that can kill you.
Try to be in fog when the fight starts. If you "tip over and die if they even look at me", don't let them look at you for free.
Once the fight is underway, position yourself so that other players can help if you get jumped. If their carry goes all-in on killing you and dies as a result, you did your job.
Finally, build into an item that buys you a few seconds in a bad position. Depending on the matchup, glimmer cape, ghost scepter and force staff can all be good options. If an enemy spends precious BKB time and ability cooldowns chasing you without killing you, that's often as good as stunning them. Thanks, I watched purge play shadow shaman and learned a bit what you said, how he waited so much. It's hard to know when it's time for your stuff, but if waiting in shadows, having an item to bait their abilities and killing me is the answer that helps me understand the perspective. What I think I learned the most, is how he took his time going putting wards and didn't care that much for xp/gpm. I feel likeif I don't stay in lane, leveling up, getting denies it just spirals out of controls. But I do have more forgiveness there as a support? Do you have any advice on what support heroes not to choose during certain matchups? It's probably impossible to say that, but if you look at top 20 picks, does that narrow it down better? If I had a pool of 3 support heroes to pick from, depending on enemy team, that would be sweet, but I have no clue at all.
Imo baiting is more advanced and something you should think about when you have a good idea who can kill you and who can't. I wouldn't worry too much about that for now.
Generally as a sup after the laning phase you want to stay outside of vision as much as possible, but in range to help a core that gets gone on. If you think there's a fight coming your way, stay roughly 800-1000 range away from your core ideally in some trees. That way you can help but are unlikely to get spotted and stopped.
In terms of laning staying for harass and denies is nowadays fairly standard until you think the core is fine on his own (either because the enemy gave up laning against him or because your core is strong enough to win vs the opponent without your help).
In terms of heroes I agree with Glacierz barring Rubick, who both is a bit advanced as well as not a hero who can do without gold.
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On December 29 2018 08:14 crappen wrote:Show nested quote +On December 29 2018 04:32 Buckyman wrote:
Watch your minimap. Part of your job is to keep track of the heroes that can kill you.
Try to be in fog when the fight starts. If you "tip over and die if they even look at me", don't let them look at you for free.
Once the fight is underway, position yourself so that other players can help if you get jumped. If their carry goes all-in on killing you and dies as a result, you did your job.
Finally, build into an item that buys you a few seconds in a bad position. Depending on the matchup, glimmer cape, ghost scepter and force staff can all be good options. If an enemy spends precious BKB time and ability cooldowns chasing you without killing you, that's often as good as stunning them. Thanks, I watched purge play shadow shaman and learned a bit what you said, how he waited so much. It's hard to know when it's time for your stuff, but if waiting in shadows, having an item to bait their abilities and killing me is the answer that helps me understand the perspective. What I think I learned the most, is how he took his time going putting wards and didn't care that much for xp/gpm. I feel likeif I don't stay in lane, leveling up, getting denies it just spirals out of controls. But I do have more forgiveness there as a support? Do you have any advice on what support heroes not to choose during certain matchups? It's probably impossible to say that, but if you look at top 20 picks, does that narrow it down better? If I had a pool of 3 support heroes to pick from, depending on enemy team, that would be sweet, but I have no clue at all.
I haven't played support for several patches, so my hero choices are out of date. But if you want advice from me specifically, I usually pick support more based on my own team than the other. I tended to pick...
Lich if we're planning on a passive early game, and/or one of the opponent's side-lane cores particularly suffers from having their XP gimped.
Witch Doctor for lanes that trade aggressively, or for a teamfight strat that combos my ultimate with another.
Vengeful Spirit if I'm planning to participate in a level 1 trilane or if I think I a later pick might stick me in a a carry role.
Crystal Maiden if my teammates particularly benefit from the aura.
Bane if I'm laning with Mirana - this combo was a dominating dual lane, but my Bane play wasn't very strong otherwise.
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On December 29 2018 00:52 crappen wrote:
Any advice for a good support for a "newcommer"? I've read up on purges basic guides, practices my lh/denies, but don't have gamesense. I play with my wife and her sister, and her sister is really awesome carry, who farms 40k while their carry has like 19k. I just don't know how I can help. Usually it ends up with her just blowing the entire team while I'm dead in base while they win.
I tried shadow shaman helping out with shackles, but I just tip over and die if they even look at me. Is support the hardest role? Do I need to last hit more as support unless I have a carry in safe lane? Any advice on what support character is a nice start with some items in mind? I see Dazzle and Lion is high on dotabuff, but not sure if that's only in decent hands.
If you are just starting out, I’d say defensive supports are more forgiving, and supports that have big team fight impact.
Supports a hard role to learn from because you will often get carried while having 0 impact. So I’d say pick an impactful support so you can learn how to impact the game.
Warlock is my favorite support (divine 4) and he is quite straight forward to learn. He will generally win or break even one lane, he scales very well in to late game, and he teaches positioning. He isn’t item dependant. He will make your carry’s life easier and bonds combos with a lot. If the game goes to 40+ minutes there isn’t a better support in the game. He also gives you opportunity to carry or win the game as a support player (about half of my last 10 warlock games I can say I was the difference maker as a 5pos) which I think is important for new players.
Dota is much more complicated than this, but if you are starting, damage dealt is a good indicator of effectiveness, especially at low mmr games. Most new support players will barely scrape 5k+ damage in a 30+ minute game. Stronger support players will push 20-30k regardless of the hero they play.
Shadow shaman is similar to warlock with a big ult, but way harder to execute because of his short range.
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On January 08 2019 02:10 ahw wrote:Show nested quote +On December 29 2018 00:52 crappen wrote:
Any advice for a good support for a "newcommer"? I've read up on purges basic guides, practices my lh/denies, but don't have gamesense. I play with my wife and her sister, and her sister is really awesome carry, who farms 40k while their carry has like 19k. I just don't know how I can help. Usually it ends up with her just blowing the entire team while I'm dead in base while they win.
I tried shadow shaman helping out with shackles, but I just tip over and die if they even look at me. Is support the hardest role? Do I need to last hit more as support unless I have a carry in safe lane? Any advice on what support character is a nice start with some items in mind? I see Dazzle and Lion is high on dotabuff, but not sure if that's only in decent hands. If you are just starting out, I’d say defensive supports are more forgiving, and supports that have big team fight impact. Supports a hard role to learn from because you will often get carried while having 0 impact. So I’d say pick an impactful support so you can learn how to impact the game. Warlock is my favorite support (divine 4) and he is quite straight forward to learn. He will generally win or break even one lane, he scales very well in to late game, and he teaches positioning. He isn’t item dependant. He will make your carry’s life easier and bonds combos with a lot. If the game goes to 40+ minutes there isn’t a better support in the game. He also gives you opportunity to carry or win the game as a support player (about half of my last 10 warlock games I can say I was the difference maker as a 5pos) which I think is important for new players. Dota is much more complicated than this, but if you are starting, damage dealt is a good indicator of effectiveness, especially at low mmr games. Most new support players will barely scrape 5k+ damage in a 30+ minute game. Stronger support players will push 20-30k regardless of the hero they play. Shadow shaman is similar to warlock with a big ult, but way harder to execute because of his short range.
I would also say that I found Lich to be a pretty good starting support when I was picking up Dota. Not super complicated spells, and high movement speed to help run away in fights, etc.
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On January 10 2019 04:56 darthfoley wrote:Show nested quote +On January 08 2019 02:10 ahw wrote:On December 29 2018 00:52 crappen wrote:
Any advice for a good support for a "newcommer"? I've read up on purges basic guides, practices my lh/denies, but don't have gamesense. I play with my wife and her sister, and her sister is really awesome carry, who farms 40k while their carry has like 19k. I just don't know how I can help. Usually it ends up with her just blowing the entire team while I'm dead in base while they win.
I tried shadow shaman helping out with shackles, but I just tip over and die if they even look at me. Is support the hardest role? Do I need to last hit more as support unless I have a carry in safe lane? Any advice on what support character is a nice start with some items in mind? I see Dazzle and Lion is high on dotabuff, but not sure if that's only in decent hands. If you are just starting out, I’d say defensive supports are more forgiving, and supports that have big team fight impact. Supports a hard role to learn from because you will often get carried while having 0 impact. So I’d say pick an impactful support so you can learn how to impact the game. Warlock is my favorite support (divine 4) and he is quite straight forward to learn. He will generally win or break even one lane, he scales very well in to late game, and he teaches positioning. He isn’t item dependant. He will make your carry’s life easier and bonds combos with a lot. If the game goes to 40+ minutes there isn’t a better support in the game. He also gives you opportunity to carry or win the game as a support player (about half of my last 10 warlock games I can say I was the difference maker as a 5pos) which I think is important for new players. Dota is much more complicated than this, but if you are starting, damage dealt is a good indicator of effectiveness, especially at low mmr games. Most new support players will barely scrape 5k+ damage in a 30+ minute game. Stronger support players will push 20-30k regardless of the hero they play. Shadow shaman is similar to warlock with a big ult, but way harder to execute because of his short range. I would also say that I found Lich to be a pretty good starting support when I was picking up Dota. Not super complicated spells, and high movement speed to help run away in fights, etc.
lich used to be the classic learn dota support cause youd just get ur terrible friend to eat the ranged creeps and win the lane
i dont know anymore though, i guess hes still pretty straight forward although more timing intricate
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So i'm about a 1.8k player right now, trying to learn Brewmaster. I enjoy his ability to offlane and brawl.
My main question is, in what situations should I pop my ult? Is it like a Jugg type ult where I want to wait until i'm as low as possible before I split? Should I do it before team fights? Should I do it to push towers? My micro on the Pandas is trash right now, but it doesn't help that I don't think I understand how I'm supposed to USE the ability.
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If you are learning, you can just focus on blink clap ult every team fight. Get good at using the earth brew to hit stuns. When you are good at that, practice ww and cyclone. When you’ve got that, practice dispel.
Generally you wanna ult whenever there’s a team fight — the amount of control brew provides is his big strength early. Mid game you can sometimes afford to push things a bit before you ult, which is great if you have a counter initiator like earth shaker or enigma.
Late game your earth panda is a big deal for HG pushes. A lot of people underuse this and hold ult when they should use it to siege
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On January 21 2019 07:38 darthfoley wrote:
So i'm about a 1.8k player right now, trying to learn Brewmaster. I enjoy his ability to offlane and brawl.
My main question is, in what situations should I pop my ult? Is it like a Jugg type ult where I want to wait until i'm as low as possible before I split? Should I do it before team fights? Should I do it to push towers? My micro on the Pandas is trash right now, but it doesn't help that I don't think I understand how I'm supposed to USE the ability.
I like to try and use his ult as often as possible unless you think it needs to be saved for an important teamfight. Just get a friend or two to join you, then find someone to blink on and use all your abilities except ult, if you think you can get them without the ult hold it, but if any of their friends show up, pop the ult (ideally before they can stun or silence you) and fight it out from there.
As for actually using the pandas I find a good general plan is to spam boulder stun the hero you are trying to kill and target them with right clicks, then select the wind panda and cyclone whoever is most disruptive or threatening to your team (or someone who might save the hero you are trying to kill) repeatedly until split wears out.
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I see MoM as a recommended item on Luna, and I'm wondering if anyone can share some insight on how it's meant to be used outside of farming?
Should I be using it in teamfights right after I turn on my ult? Often times I find myself mis-time the activation and fail to apply a beam to stop TP/channeling. While the life leech is very useful, the interaction with the rest of her kit is just seems very awkward.
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On January 29 2019 06:01 Glacierz wrote:
I see MoM as a recommended item on Luna, and I'm wondering if anyone can share some insight on how it's meant to be used outside of farming?
Should I be using it in teamfights right after I turn on my ult? Often times I find myself mis-time the activation and fail to apply a beam to stop TP/channeling. While the life leech is very useful, the interaction with the rest of her kit is just seems very awkward.
yeah the fact that it lasts longer (8s) than beam cd (6s) means that youll sometimes not want to activate it in fights in favor of getting another lucent beam off (if you eclipse, beam, mom, there'll still be 2 seconds where beam will be up but you won't be able to use it)
there's no hard rule about how you use it in teamfights; you can try to anticipate if you'll need to cancel a tp or some important spell with a long cast time or channeling and not use it in those situations
in general though eclipse+beam+mom in fights probably maximizes your dps in most situations?
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On January 03 2019 02:42 Glacierz wrote:Show nested quote +On December 29 2018 08:14 crappen wrote:On December 29 2018 04:32 Buckyman wrote:
Watch your minimap. Part of your job is to keep track of the heroes that can kill you.
Try to be in fog when the fight starts. If you "tip over and die if they even look at me", don't let them look at you for free.
Once the fight is underway, position yourself so that other players can help if you get jumped. If their carry goes all-in on killing you and dies as a result, you did your job.
Finally, build into an item that buys you a few seconds in a bad position. Depending on the matchup, glimmer cape, ghost scepter and force staff can all be good options. If an enemy spends precious BKB time and ability cooldowns chasing you without killing you, that's often as good as stunning them. Thanks, I watched purge play shadow shaman and learned a bit what you said, how he waited so much. It's hard to know when it's time for your stuff, but if waiting in shadows, having an item to bait their abilities and killing me is the answer that helps me understand the perspective. What I think I learned the most, is how he took his time going putting wards and didn't care that much for xp/gpm. I feel likeif I don't stay in lane, leveling up, getting denies it just spirals out of controls. But I do have more forgiveness there as a support? Do you have any advice on what support heroes not to choose during certain matchups? It's probably impossible to say that, but if you look at top 20 picks, does that narrow it down better? If I had a pool of 3 support heroes to pick from, depending on enemy team, that would be sweet, but I have no clue at all. Support doesn't usually get counter-picked, so I wouldn't worry much about match-ups. If you are just starting out and dying a lot, try picking supports that are not item dependent. Some examples: Ogre Magi, Lich, Lion, Jaikiro, Bane, Rubick (hard to play if you don't know the game well, but helps you learn the skills faster if you don't play any other roles). A helpful tip is to make sure you tome of knowledge whenever its off CD in shop to keep up with the levels.
supports do get counterpicked. Why do you think heroes like troll/juggernauts were so popular when there was an undying/phoenix everygame.
But since you can't do anything about it, you still pick w/e you want
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Anyone have a good way to deal with viper?
This heroes obnoxiously strong and has like a 60% divine win rate. Flash farms insanely fast (200cs in 15 mins kind of fast) and is impossibly hard to kill when he’s got that much xp on you.
When he hits lv 20 at like 22-25 mins and just starts aghs ultying people from 100%-20% it’s real hard
On top of that it’s like pulling teeth to get players to build spirit vessel nowadays for some reason
Any good counterpicks or whatever?
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on lane -> morph/lycan/clinkz
else -> rubick
those 4 heroes are pretty fucking strong vs viper
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On February 28 2019 02:30 ahw wrote:
Anyone have a good way to deal with viper?
This heroes obnoxiously strong and has like a 60% divine win rate. Flash farms insanely fast (200cs in 15 mins kind of fast) and is impossibly hard to kill when he’s got that much xp on you.
When he hits lv 20 at like 22-25 mins and just starts aghs ultying people from 100%-20% it’s real hard
On top of that it’s like pulling teeth to get players to build spirit vessel nowadays for some reason
Any good counterpicks or whatever?
Why bother ? Just pick something that can jungle. You dont have only one option. I'd suggest Storm considering how he can easily kill the first waves by spending your mana then you can go to the jungle. Also hes pretty good ingame against viper
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On March 20 2019 08:09 Erasme wrote:Show nested quote +On February 28 2019 02:30 ahw wrote:
Anyone have a good way to deal with viper?
This heroes obnoxiously strong and has like a 60% divine win rate. Flash farms insanely fast (200cs in 15 mins kind of fast) and is impossibly hard to kill when he’s got that much xp on you.
When he hits lv 20 at like 22-25 mins and just starts aghs ultying people from 100%-20% it’s real hard
On top of that it’s like pulling teeth to get players to build spirit vessel nowadays for some reason
Any good counterpicks or whatever? Why bother ? Just pick something that can jungle. You dont have only one option. I'd suggest Storm considering how he can easily kill the first waves by spending your mana then you can go to the jungle. Also hes pretty good ingame against viper
I don't like giving Viper a free lane though.
Also he's going atos every game now - which sucks for a storm doesn't it?
Really not so sure about the storm pick.
I'd go like to play Morph a lot vs Vipers lately. Wrecks him in the CS department, has a sort of escape if needed...
Other than that I used to love Clinkz against a Viper - but he's just too squishy with the new ult, so might not be great anymore.
Arc Warden is quite decent as well - but I haven't played him very much since the Viper resurgence - so feels liks nethertoxin might now actually be a sick counter to arc tbh.
but overall, I will still pick invo in a lot of cases - because between 3k-5k it feels like everyone tries to pick Viper against Invo and thinks it's a counter.
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On March 20 2019 08:09 Erasme wrote:Show nested quote +On February 28 2019 02:30 ahw wrote:
Anyone have a good way to deal with viper?
This heroes obnoxiously strong and has like a 60% divine win rate. Flash farms insanely fast (200cs in 15 mins kind of fast) and is impossibly hard to kill when he’s got that much xp on you.
When he hits lv 20 at like 22-25 mins and just starts aghs ultying people from 100%-20% it’s real hard
On top of that it’s like pulling teeth to get players to build spirit vessel nowadays for some reason
Any good counterpicks or whatever? Why bother ? Just pick something that can jungle. You dont have only one option. I'd suggest Storm considering how he can easily kill the first waves by spending your mana then you can go to the jungle. Also hes pretty good ingame against viper
I made that post before the nerfs, he’s a bit easier to handle now especially in lane. But I think he’s still at 55+% divine.
He’s not even a huge issue in lane, it’s more keeping up with his xp snowball since he farms so fast and comes online so fast.
And when he gets 25 the game becomes a nightmare tbh
Been going lycan with pretty good results
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On March 23 2019 21:38 ahw wrote:Show nested quote +On March 20 2019 08:09 Erasme wrote:On February 28 2019 02:30 ahw wrote:
Anyone have a good way to deal with viper?
This heroes obnoxiously strong and has like a 60% divine win rate. Flash farms insanely fast (200cs in 15 mins kind of fast) and is impossibly hard to kill when he’s got that much xp on you.
When he hits lv 20 at like 22-25 mins and just starts aghs ultying people from 100%-20% it’s real hard
On top of that it’s like pulling teeth to get players to build spirit vessel nowadays for some reason
Any good counterpicks or whatever? Why bother ? Just pick something that can jungle. You dont have only one option. I'd suggest Storm considering how he can easily kill the first waves by spending your mana then you can go to the jungle. Also hes pretty good ingame against viper I made that post before the nerfs, he’s a bit easier to handle now especially in lane. But I think he’s still at 55+% divine. He’s not even a huge issue in lane, it’s more keeping up with his xp snowball since he farms so fast and comes online so fast. And when he gets 25 the game becomes a nightmare tbh Been going lycan with pretty good results
Viper is quite slow around the map and is quite prone to being kited. Pango has a decent lane vs viper and can shove lanes which makes vipers team get split up. Since viper generally wants to group up and threaten objectives this may cause him to tp around the map and miss his timing. Even if atos grants viper some basic catch, he is still lacking in mobility.
Good burst heroes like clinkz morf and jugg can bring viper down. But u still need a way to abuse viper and kite him around the map.
My 2 cents as a 7k eu
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I'm looking for some fun meme builds to try out in unranked, in the vein of the old offlane stunmorph, any ideas/suggestions?
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Alchemist support with focus on the stun.
Brew support that wins lane and then is a walking ulti.
Chaos Knight aghanim for using team mate illus.
Tide right click carry.
Anti mage pos 4, oov etc.
Caster Luna, aether lens, aghs etc to buff beam
Ogre mid, surprisingly legit.
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EPT
