EPTSimple Questions, Simple Answers - Page 1230
| Forum Index > Dota 2 Strategy |
|
SpiritoftheTunA
United States20903 Posts
| ||
|
Xxazn4lyfe51xX
United States976 Posts
On March 03 2017 09:11 Archeon wrote: I agree that it depends on the situation, and as mentioned before it depends on the point in time in the game. If we go by your example of 200g/3 minutes of creep farm on a sup (which basically means no pulling and no lane to leech a bit xp/farm from), with glimmer as the smallest non-quality-of-life-item after brown boots you are going to accelerate glimmer by ~1.5 minutes (from 11.8 to ~10.3). So again, all 3 major sup items (glimmer/blink/force) have shitty/no components, if it doesn't chain or the sup is close to an item anyways it won't have any impact in the next minutes. Btw 200g is a bit more than the bounty of an early wave, which means that a freefarming carry on average gets 30 seconds of farm out of it unless he can flash farm very early. Having an earlier ring of health on AM vs DS however means that he is self-reliant early on, often saving a salve he'd need otherwise and freeing up the sups. That sounds like a specific scenario, but considering the popularity of regen components on carries it's not. If you get two kills on your carry suddenly armlet is online a minute earlier and your push is that much stronger. If gold was more valuable on sups you'd let them farm and not the carries. I'm not sure you understood what I meant. No one is suggesting that gold is more valuable on supports. I'm suggesting that at many points in the game, a fixed-value infusion of gold is more valuable to a support than it is to a carry. I'm also confused as to how you went from 3 minutes to 1.5 minutes? I might be misunderstanding you here. If a support gets 200g/3 minutes without farming or pulling (reasonable, if not realistic), a kill vs. an assist will be 3 minutes of accelerated farm. Keep in mind that supports are often dedicating this time to gank, so getting gold out of these kills means a lot to them. A carry spending a bit of time to help out in a kill in the early game is not necessarily forfeiting all his farm. Unless you're spending a whole minute chasing down a kill, you probably miss 2-3 creeps. I agree with your self-reliance point. Though it is worth noting that a kill on the offlaner often makes the safelaner self-sufficient by itself depending on the matchup (such as your example). An AM with a level advantage on a DS can just run at him to force him off the creep wave. Here's my point though. Yes, 2 kills on carry and armlet is online 45 seconds earlier (1 minute is pushing it unless FB or streaks). But 2 assist on a carry and 2 kills on a support is mek online 2-3 minutes earlier (more realistic than my assumptions). Or urn is suddenly available right that instant. Which of those sounds more useful? | ||
|
Archeon
3265 Posts
I agree that there are points in the game when a fixed value infusion of gold is more valuable to the support than to the carry. Mainly when it allows the support to do something within the next 2 minutes that he couldn't have without it. Safe lane is also the least contested on average so the gold difference matters less compared to mid- or offlane. I'd never consciously take a kill from midlane pre 10 minutes. @Urn: Urn makes a bigger difference later in the game and doesn't enable a timing. It's mainly a comfortable item. That goes for a lot of smaller support items, the big early impact items are likely smoke followed by brown boots and stick and none of them should be hard to get. When people start to push down t1s it's most of the time between 5 and 12 minutes, so way before the bigger support items come online. And my team often waits the minute when I tell them that I'm 200g away from a game-changer. My point is that gold on your carry allows him to accelerate his farm faster and often translates into faster timings compared to his opponent. It also allows him to jungle earlier, often giving a lane to a support, which again enables more gold for the team. TLDR: Gold on a carry snowballs by itself, gold on a support can snowballs situationally when it allows you to take fights you couldn't have else. Only then it is imo right to take the kill. | ||
|
jrkirby
United States1510 Posts
| ||
|
ahswtini
Northern Ireland22212 Posts
On March 21 2017 07:21 jrkirby wrote: Why do pros smoke and then TP at the very start of the game? to invade enemy jungle faster to set up good wards/pick off someone | ||
|
Atreides
United States2393 Posts
| ||
|
Birdie
New Zealand4438 Posts
| ||
|
ahswtini
Northern Ireland22212 Posts
On March 21 2017 20:22 Birdie wrote: How do you get the team TP effects like how you could when you got the whole pack of team cards? make a reddit thread about it | ||
|
Seedfan
58 Posts
User was warned for this post | ||
|
Archeon
3265 Posts
Also people just vent over the internet all the time, cause the people they are bothering are people they don't know. Hint: Use the mute button and use it often. Recommend your non-retards to do the same. Put on some chilling music and enjoy your 4v5. | ||
|
Buckyman
1364 Posts
| ||
|
Archeon
3265 Posts
In general there's often the option to just gank mid and safelanes repetitively, which is often the safer option. Aggressive wards can ruin the jungle's first rotation, so they are good in any case. | ||
|
ahw
Canada1099 Posts
On March 26 2017 03:39 Buckyman wrote: How and when should I go about disrupting an enemy jungler as a roaming support? Punish their lanes instead, tilts their team way harder and causes the jungles to rotate uselessly most of the time | ||
|
SKNielsen1989
174 Posts
| ||
TheEmulator
28100 Posts
On March 26 2017 18:06 SKNielsen1989 wrote: what is wrong with people's brains - dota is not that hard - why do they keep doing dumb shit Wrong thread. Stick to the QQ thread with that  | ||
|
SKNielsen1989
174 Posts
On March 26 2017 18:32 TheEmulator wrote: Wrong thread. Stick to the QQ thread with that you're right - little is known about the human brain so I shouldn't be asking in simple questions ^^ my bad | ||
|
Buckyman
1364 Posts
On March 26 2017 04:25 Archeon wrote: \With heroes like ES and tusk you'd normally 2 man smoke, ward and gank repetitively. It also depends a lot on their heroes, how dangerous their shrine tps are etc. What's a good timing for the initial jungle invasion? | ||
|
Velzi
Finland659 Posts
If u are support, do you have enough levels to kill the jungler? Does the jungler have ulti u dont want him to have before u move in? Is it melee jungler like Lycan LS LC etc. who might be low hp at some point to abuse that? Vision plays a role, @4minutes u have the first night time and @6minutes first wards usually run out. Also somewhere around that time their jungler hits lvl6, depends on the hero. Do their supports have means protect their jungler (Treant shield, mobile support or roamer who could be around if they are lucky) prolly missed something but those are the things i go through atleast before moving into enemy jungle as support. | ||
|
Archeon
3265 Posts
On March 27 2017 10:14 Buckyman wrote: What's a good timing for the initial jungle invasion? Again depends on a lot of factors. Normal timings are when the two supports hit lvl 2, lvl 3 and when 4 minutes comes up. If you have a good roaming duo you can do it later, but the more you wait the larger the level difference between you and the jungler, the safer their farming and the more dangerous defensive reactions from their mid and safelane. Exceptions are against Chen and Ench who are both very strong at lvl 1 and scale down over time (until Ench gets some items up). You can smoke ward/smoke tp ward pre minute zero and watch for opportunities and then smoke gank the hero. If you get 2 wards down in their jungle and just hit them repetitively their game is ruined, they can't keep up in farm by farming the side jungle. ^This is mostly about 2 man smoke ganking, invis/MK roaming is very different. | ||
|
kaykaykay
Singapore637 Posts
| ||
| ||
