I don't get the 4p1 mentality. We brought w33ha in to have a solid mid who could help carry games but then we just abandon him? Yes, Miracle is fucking good but when the rest of your team are glorified lane creeps, there's not much he can do. Need to not put all our eggs in his basket.

Ferricks

26 Posts

August 16 2019 05:07 GMT

#6862

Each and every one of them hasnt been delivering. It is really frustrating watching them like this. Im gonna have a bad day, thanks for nothing boys.

juuto

809 Posts

August 16 2019 05:09 GMT

#6863

I mean, w33ha was mindlessly feeding that game and at one point was 7/14 of Liquid's deaths. You can't really blame 4p1 for w33 not pressing his BKB or being so far out and failing to dodge stuns. He did that to himself.

Rufus Dupres

Germany1071 Posts

August 16 2019 05:10 GMT

#6864

GH played a good tournament so far, all others are still asleep.

Cross fingers that they can pull out the draw at least. Do not see them winning against LGD in this shape.

mda

12 Posts

August 16 2019 09:59 GMT

#6865

I looked at the PSG LGD game 1 draft and thought it was a draft from a few months ago... :[

Seems like playstyle is the problem and not the players. I remember Miracle tearing it up with a mid Sven and pounding a SumaiL Storm less than 15 minutes in. What happened to those drafts where he played an active carry/mid?

NInoff

Bulgaria1105 Posts

August 16 2019 10:51 GMT

#6866

Again both games lost by too many mistakes by cores. Weird how is this happening - First game MC went in behind Gyro with no vision and just died, now Miracle went in to LifeStealer that is hard counter to him, with no Chemical Rage, no BKB and no Buyback? WTF are they doing?
Actually wining 1 game at least would've been pretty close to having a big chance of Upper bracket, because of how this group is going.
But now we have to win pretty much all the other games, or maybe drop 1 more for a tiebreaker?

Hopefully it will be a new day so they get get their shit togheter.

Firebolt145

Lalalaland34491 Posts

August 16 2019 10:55 GMT

#6867

For me Liquid doesn't have their usual aura at the moment. Just have to wait and see whether it continues into main stage or if they figure it out. I wouldn't be surprised either way.

Rufus Dupres

Germany1071 Posts

August 16 2019 10:58 GMT

#6868

Maybe it is time for a complete reset and building up a new team and ffs get a decent drafter/coach. They looked lost like in their dying moments with Matu, no any improvment at all since the adding of W33haa. See it already coming a BO1 against EG in the elimination game.

MintberryCrunchs

Germany462 Posts

August 16 2019 11:03 GMT

#6869

On August 16 2019 18:59 mda wrote:
I looked at the PSG LGD game 1 draft and thought it was a draft from a few months ago... :[

Seems like playstyle is the problem and not the players. I remember Miracle tearing it up with a mid Sven and pounding a SumaiL Storm less than 15 minutes in. What happened to those drafts where he played an active carry/mid?

Agreed 100%!

I was allways wondering and thinking (might sound like Captain Hindsight), is playing the hard farming carry really what Miracle likes to play and can show his full potential?
Dont get me wrong, this is not to put the blame on him or giving him fault for anything. I am a huge fan of him and i think he is a blessed player way beyond 99.999999999% of anyone else.

I think he is a very creative player and he strives on doing things his way, making his presence shown on the map rather by plays, skills and his way of clicking those buttons then by farm (although, ofc. this correlates).

I think mid as it is right now might give a player more freedom in playstyle and thus, be better fitting for miracle?

I would love see him in a role similar to what midone is doing in Secret (gets way to little credit - that man is a beast).
Midone can play with little farm, making all the space in the world just by beeing so damn talented that he doesnt rely on his farm.
But he can also play the farming carry and carry the game play plays, scaling and farm.

I think it could fit Miracle very well, not beeing locked into one particular style of play aka. beeing the 1 in the 4protect1
strats liquid nearly only runs currently.

Again, this is just some out of the box thinking, not related to whats happening in groups right now.

Just remember: TI7 was a lower bracket run aswell.
Its not over til the fat lady sings!

juuto

809 Posts

August 16 2019 11:06 GMT

#6870

I'm just going to look on bright side of things. Now that Liquid is performing the way they are, now we can put all our energy into thinking about the endless possibilities for the next Liquid roster for next season. Who do you guys want to see join the team next season? Maybe Heen will finally return!

lasl

Romania21 Posts

August 16 2019 11:09 GMT

#6871

They aren't on the same page anymore and are almost completely lacking any synergy. They don't feel like a glued team in play and in fights. But more like stiff roles in a stiff team lacking a higher inner coordination.

mda

12 Posts

August 16 2019 11:17 GMT

#6872

My thought on the 2nd draft was immediately: "I do recall MATU also playing the timbersaw."

Reboot the team chemistry and play the same strats :[

[Edit] Where's the w33 WR?

I'm rooting for TL, CHAOS and OG. By the looks of it though, only OG will make it in the group top 4.

MintberryCrunchs

Germany462 Posts

August 16 2019 11:17 GMT

#6873

On August 16 2019 20:06 juuto wrote:
I'm just going to look on bright side of things. Now that Liquid is performing the way they are, now we can put all our energy into thinking about the endless possibilities for the next Liquid roster for next season. Who do you guys want to see join the team next season? Maybe Heen will finally return!

You are the fan every Sports and E-Sports Team loves to have! You're probably great to have at Parties aswell ...

Faruko

Chile34171 Posts

August 16 2019 13:08 GMT

#6874

Man, it's just group stage and while of course their performance is not making anyone feel good for whats to come, have more faith jesus

hunter_x

Germany2762 Posts

August 16 2019 14:10 GMT

#6875

while the performance from the boys over the last two days was pretty bad, dont forget the tournament just started. teams who do good in the group stage, often start to suck in the bracket, and that works the other way around too. we have seen this at so many LAN's. so its way too early to call them out, but people love to exaggerate as usual...

juuto

809 Posts

August 16 2019 23:45 GMT

#6876

The team has been struggling to since TI7 ended. It really is just time for them to part ways, they don't work well together, and they haven't for while especially this year where they have no significant tournament wins. They've bombed out of so many tournaments this year it's actually unbelievable and they look like they're terrible shape at TI, why should a roster continue to stick together if it's simply not working?

Compare this Liquid to OG who are destroying teams with Io carry a year after they won TI. Unless they manage to win TI, this Liquid roster is done. It's still possible for them to temporarily overcome their problems and get a good result, I don't completely doubt that, but nothing short of a win will save this Liquid roster from a shuffle. There's just no point in them sticking together as 5. They've been stomped by Secret the entire year, they've bombed out of so many tournaments, and changing w33 for Matu seems to not have been enough. Some fans may be happy with two top 2 finishes but I doubt Liquid feels the same way. Change is necessary if Liquid ever wants to be able to consistently win tournaments ever again. They've been plagued by the same problems for far too long.

Julmust

Sweden4867 Posts

August 16 2019 23:51 GMT

#6877

I'll agree that we're not having a great tournament but I also think you need to chill a little bit. We had an insane season after the TI7 win. We were basically unlucky that we didn't get any wins in Majors but how many tournaments in a row didn't we finish like top 3? And even this year, with the string of bad luck/exhaustion/player emergencies we've done decent. We finished 2nd in the last two Majors of the season for for christs sake!

On a meta level your post is interesting because it's a perfect reflection on the pro players view on Dota. Nothing matters outside of TI. Something I think is quite frustrating because it results in views like this, which results in players getting harassed for one bad tournament (ana after TI7 is a prime example). I'm not saying YOU are harassing players but I'm saying that the view that TI is everything is actually creating toxicity in the community.

juuto

809 Posts

August 17 2019 01:19 GMT

#6878

It's only "TI is everything" for Liquid because they failed to win anything significant throughout the entire year. VP stuck together despite getting 5-6th at TI8 because they won multiple Majors. Liquid stuck together after TI8 because they were top 4 and they were Super Major winners. They have absolutely no significant wins this season so it's either win or roster change for them.

noh2o

China71 Posts

August 17 2019 01:28 GMT

#6879

On August 16 2019 19:51 NInoff wrote:
Again both games lost by too many mistakes by cores. Weird how is this happening - First game MC went in behind Gyro with no vision and just died, now Miracle went in to LifeStealer that is hard counter to him, with no Chemical Rage, no BKB and no Buyback? WTF are they doing?
Actually wining 1 game at least would've been pretty close to having a big chance of Upper bracket, because of how this group is going.
But now we have to win pretty much all the other games, or maybe drop 1 more for a tiebreaker?

Hopefully it will be a new day so they get get their shit togheter.

mc played worse and worse after epicenter major.
and shit shit shit draft.
ember vs dp in the middle?
kuro is not a support,he has a carryheart
played 5 pos puck,and got phase boot
what a fxxk

Ferricks

26 Posts

August 17 2019 02:36 GMT

#6880

Ok EG has woken up from their nightmare by beating VG, now its time for TL to wake up as well. Get it together boys, it shouldnt be too hard to get wins from TNC, Keen and Alliance.