On August 11 2016 02:08 Velr wrote: Why shouldn't it be?
TLDR:
Kuro probably wanted to captain because he tought puppey wasn't putting in enough. Everyone was feeling bad about this and sided with Puppey. 1437 or someone told it to Puppey and he feels betrayed (kinda rightfully).
The end.
Alltogether pretty useless whiteout really knowing what happened and what exactly was the dynamic.
This description of events is a lot kinder to Kuro than I got from reading it
On August 11 2016 02:08 Velr wrote: Why shouldn't it be?
TLDR:
Kuro probably wanted to captain because he tought puppey wasn't putting in enough. Everyone was feeling bad about this and sided with Puppey. 1437 or someone told it to Puppey and he feels betrayed (kinda rightfully).
The end.
Alltogether pretty useless whiteout really knowing what happened and what exactly was the dynamic.
This description of events is a lot kinder to Kuro than I got from reading it
1437 snitched to puppey. Puppey got obviously very angry. They were anything but neutral (how could they).
Kuro most likely didn’t exactly love the Situation in secret and tried something, i doubt he wanted to truely sabotage secret, the guy played for years with Ppy and most likely felt that something needed to change drastically.
What did Kuro really try to do though, was he just talking to people about forming a team of his own or what? I mean, if he just wanted to leave the team and was talking to others about it after he'd voiced his concerns regarding the team/leadership to Puppey (who then ignored him and claimed exclusive ownership/captaining as he tends to do -- I remember an interview with Dendi where he said "we just do whatever Puppey says"), what else was he supposed to do? As long as he didn't do it three days in advance of the roster lock, leaving Puppey teamless...
And in the end, Kuro did form his own team, even if the players on Secret didn't want to join him (which was up to them, its not like Kuro could force them out of Secret), so it all worked out for everyone, didn't it? Heh. Anyway, if he first talked to Puppey before approaching the other players in the team about leaving, I don't think he did anything wrong.
On August 11 2016 23:42 Papercappu wrote: its always the "kuro is such a nice person he will never do this" argument
Its all about the sequence of events:
1. Talk to Puppey about your concerns. 2. Have your concerns be dismissed. 3. Talk to your teammates to see if they share in your concerns.
Now, you could say that, if you are using step 3 in an immediate attempt to form your own team, then you crossed a line. That depends on what you are saying specifically and how you phrase things. Perhaps it would be wiser to talk to Puppey about leaving the team first, but maybe that could have been cleared up in step 1 as well. I don't know what was said specifically, so I can''t possibly pass judgment.
Why would 1437 talk shit about Kuro if what Kuro did was innocent and normal? Why would everyone else on the team grow to hate him for it? He just wanted to get rid of Puppey or go form his own team or something. You're trying to fill in the gaps to fit your preconceptions of Kuro but it contradicts what we have seen and heard from the other members of the team.
On August 12 2016 01:25 Zea! wrote: Wow, those leaks are a bomb.... well, honestly at the end of the drama looks like Kuro was right after all :p
Maybe it wasn't only in Secret, maybe it started building up in Na'vi (the XBOCT going mad at Kuro was for a reason, XBOCT in a interview saying that Puppey messaged him telling him he was right after TI5 and more).
Nevertheless, this leak is a peak in a private conversation between two friends talking about a situation which we don't have the full details, so trying to say who was right and who was wrong should be hard. He didn't go public and after a while it seems they reestablished contact.
The best was going separate ways and they did. Each with a different degree of success that the fans will use to fight against each other.
I imagine Puppey hasn't been kicked off many teams in his career, but it's common for teams to make a decision to kick someone before they actually do. EG's kicks of Mason and Aui after TI were both decided before they were ever informed, which is part of the reason why those kicks create such a firestorm of noise: usually we see the players expressing their instant disbelief on social media.
That log reads like a lot of egotism from Puppey and 1437 either ignoring it or enabling it, the prose is certainly colorful, but many would believe it would be wrong to read too much into it since nobody was supposed to see it.
We'll never know the full details because we have no idea what Kuro's reasons were. I thought at the time Puppey could have played better at that tournament, his usual lack of wards often left Arteezy in the dark.
I like w33 I'm happy for him. Bit frustrated though that an EE team couldn't leverage their strengths to do this. The Frankfurt team would scare most here.
On August 12 2016 12:40 yyfpulls wrote: Is this leak posted on Reddit?
It's been deleted every time someone posts it (for good reason)
On August 12 2016 20:18 RubickPicker wrote:That log reads like a lot of egotism from Puppey and 1437 either ignoring it or enabling it, the prose is certainly colorful, but many would believe it would be wrong to read too much into it since nobody was supposed to see it.
I'm not going to pretend Puppey is a humble guy, and I think a majority of pro dota players are a bit arrogant. You sort of have to be to have that sort of confidence in yourself to compete at that level, and moreso to captain a team. That said, I think that what someone says in a private conversation to a close friend when they are feeling betrayed by someone they were very close to needs to be taken with a grain of salt, because a lot of it is likely to be venting and not representative of how they really feel.
And, adding on to that, Kuro may be right that his outlook on Dota was better or whatever he wanted to do to replace Puppey. However, that does not justify any shitty behavior he may have done in the name of this better end.
On August 12 2016 20:18 RubickPicker wrote:That log reads like a lot of egotism from Puppey and 1437 either ignoring it or enabling it, the prose is certainly colorful, but many would believe it would be wrong to read too much into it since nobody was supposed to see it.
I'm not going to pretend Puppey is a humble guy, and I think a majority of pro dota players are a bit arrogant. You sort of have to be to have that sort of confidence in yourself to compete at that level, and moreso to captain a team. That said, I think that what someone says in a private conversation to a close friend when they are feeling betrayed by someone they were very close to needs to be taken with a grain of salt, because a lot of it is likely to be venting and not representative of how they really feel.
And, adding on to that, Kuro may be right that his outlook on Dota was better or whatever he wanted to do to replace Puppey. However, that does not justify any shitty behavior he may have done in the name of this better end.
If anything, what we've seen at TI is that big egos cause teams to come crashing down.
On August 12 2016 12:40 yyfpulls wrote: Is this leak posted on Reddit?
It's been deleted every time someone posts it (for good reason)
On August 12 2016 20:18 RubickPicker wrote:That log reads like a lot of egotism from Puppey and 1437 either ignoring it or enabling it, the prose is certainly colorful, but many would believe it would be wrong to read too much into it since nobody was supposed to see it.
I'm not going to pretend Puppey is a humble guy, and I think a majority of pro dota players are a bit arrogant. You sort of have to be to have that sort of confidence in yourself to compete at that level, and moreso to captain a team. That said, I think that what someone says in a private conversation to a close friend when they are feeling betrayed by someone they were very close to needs to be taken with a grain of salt, because a lot of it is likely to be venting and not representative of how they really feel.
And, adding on to that, Kuro may be right that his outlook on Dota was better or whatever he wanted to do to replace Puppey. However, that does not justify any shitty behavior he may have done in the name of this better end.
If anything, what we've seen at TI is that big egos cause teams to come crashing down.
Well, confidence is needed. It just needs to be managed so that it doesn't turn into too big of an ego. I think that's the tricky part. You need a lot of confidence but you can't let that confidence corrupt you.
EPT![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/vvlwRLI.jpg)
