In their first series they continued their super close games against TNC, this time lost in g3 after a pretty back and forth ending. Tried to reengage 5v3 in the end which could have led to a win but did it a bit poorly and just got owned by the fat PL.

We'll see how the team changes after some time to practice.

broodbucket

Australia963 Posts

January 15 2018 00:26 GMT

#422

yeah a bit hard to judge this early on, hopefully the ramp up time isn't too long though, it's not a good time to be in a slump

FuzzyJAM

Scotland9300 Posts

January 15 2018 12:14 GMT

#423

Seems like they really mistreated Ohaiyo. It's very unfair to hide the fact that someone is kicked so that they'll perform for qualifiers.

spudde123

4814 Posts

January 15 2018 13:13 GMT

#424

The way I see it, if people expect the team to be upfront to the player that is getting replaced, there should also be an expectation that the player can be "professional" about it and give his best until the replacement is ready to play. Maybe Ohaiyo could be if he was talked to right from the start, I don't know. It is cold, but if the player is told and just doesn't play or plays poorly everyone loses. Or if they take Universe straight from the plane and put him to play, the end result again seems likely to be worse for everyone. Of course Ohaiyo was used and one can hate the situation and the dishonesty, but this way the team qualified to ESL and Ohaiyo presumably also still gets compensated for his share of the prize money.

Usually player changes in teams don't end up happening right in the middle of a qual with some other guy flying in from a different region so this situation doesn't arise much. Ideally Universe could have arrived 1-2 weeks ago so he could play the quals from start to finish. Not sure when exactly they asked Universe or when he agreed to join. Presumably they at least asked quite some time ago already after he got booted from EG.

DucK-

Singapore11447 Posts

January 15 2018 14:58 GMT

#425

What a dick. Zero respect to envy or anyone who was in the loop. At least have the decency to inform him early on. I hope fnatic gets DQ, but I doubt it would happen because they did nothing wrong from the rules perspective.

FuzzyJAM

Scotland9300 Posts

January 15 2018 16:52 GMT

#426

Sounds like everyone was in the loop. Staff will have known, Envy and Pie can be assumed to have known, Dj cryptically tweeted about it well before their last match, and I don't see why Abed would have been kept out the loop.

I kind of don't know how Ohaiyo didn't know himself given that the rumour was circulating strongly well in advance. You'd think he would have asked what was happening.

I think it's very poor, but I see why the team did it. Had they been open, the alternatives were to play with someone who had no reason to try or to play with a jet lagged new player.

its_a_me

Austria612 Posts

January 15 2018 17:11 GMT

#427

Do you think Universe will work out in this team, or is it rather "I dont know where to go, so hello Fanatic?"

@DucK-
totally agree, is there no roster change rule for majors?

TomatoBisque

United States6290 Posts

January 15 2018 20:31 GMT

#428

We're in the middle of the roster lock period so there's not going to be any punishment, it was completely within the rules.

It's still an absolutely shitty thing to do, though.

Sapaio

Denmark2037 Posts

January 15 2018 21:22 GMT

#429

Think the problem is that the reshuffle period and many qualifiers are at the same time, can't see how else fnatic could have handle it. It is a not nice but with this packed calendar the time will always seem shitty.
Fun fact is that Fnatic moves up to 9 place in ranking from 13 because Uni has more points.

Aznupdown

Canada318 Posts

January 17 2018 19:41 GMT

#430

At the end of the day, Dota 2 is a business and all teams need to strive for success in order to thrive. Yeah its a shitty things to do no doubt about that but it was necessary.

Greed trumps power of friendship

Chillander

219 Posts

January 17 2018 21:38 GMT

#431

On January 18 2018 04:41 Aznupdown wrote:
At the end of the day, Dota 2 is a business and all teams need to strive for success in order to thrive. Yeah its a shitty things to do no doubt about that but it was necessary.

Greed trumps power of friendship

The reason why our world is such a dark and dangerous place

Just need to clarify that I didn't mean you, personally. Just the general point of view, as
many of us have, and is partly true, sadly

goody153

44263 Posts

January 18 2018 02:51 GMT

#432

https://fnatic.com/articles/dota-statement-regarding-ohaiyo

statement from fnatic

seems like this problems from the transfer could've been all avoided if valve released the information about the roster change earlier before all the qualifiers happened .. as i understand valve released the information about the roster change the same day as the qualifier for katowice started

of course anybody with the right mind wouldn't tell a player they are about to remove who is about to play for them before the transaction for the other player transfer is officially confirmed.

On January 18 2018 06:38 Chillander wrote:

Show nested quote +

The reason why our world is such a dark and dangerous place

Just need to clarify that I didn't mean you, personally. Just the general point of view, as
many of us have, and is partly true, sadly

Though i'm not fond of the move being a fan of the previous team composition(the excalibur replacement i'd understand he was clearly out of place from the team and the results prove that abed was an clear improvement but not ohayou) i think the replacement was for the TI points.

Esports is however not some charity environment where nobility and all that shit is valued but rather results. Even if lets say it's miracle if he isn't as good as he is right now then he still likely to be replaced even if he was "trying his best" and would've been for a team in a long time. It's a competition after all and results actually matter

spudde123

4814 Posts

January 18 2018 11:06 GMT

#433

After dropping their first two series with Universe, Fnatic is now getting some wins. Beat Mineski 2-1, Execration 2-0 and GeekFam 3-0 to qualify for GESC. From what I saw Universe was doing well but of course we'll have to see how things go against better international competition. Also seemed like their drafts improved quite a bit after those few losses. Their Shaman+ET opener was getting pretty underwhelming and they found things that seemed to work much better. PLD's Warlock for example worked really well against some of the stuff they were up against

goody153

44263 Posts

January 18 2018 11:43 GMT

#434

From the recent games(after the two losses) Universe seems to be playing well with the team.

broodbucket

Australia963 Posts

January 19 2018 03:52 GMT

#435

not the hardest competition but a good start to the new roster, ESL One is the real first test tho

Mosoball

Finland686 Posts

February 08 2018 12:07 GMT

#436

Fnatic looking a bit stronger with their playstyle. Before, they clearly wanted a cut-throat style of punishing their opponents' slight overextensions just like Liquid does, but the execution was lacking. The team's clearly getting closer and closer.

Being in a disadvantage against Geek-fam the way Fnatic were but still winning the way they did to me is a glimpse of top-team attitude and style of play. Go boys!

Deleted User 173346

16169 Posts

February 09 2018 16:44 GMT

#437

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spudde123

4814 Posts

February 09 2018 17:50 GMT

#438

Who would you have recruited during the roster lock? The issue with "someone else should captain" statements is that generally no realistic alternative is offered. Established captains almost always have their own teams and you can't typically easily recruit one. They do have 343 as coach and he has at least some drafting experience, but EE seems to like playing with PLD so it seems like an unlikely change. I'd be curious to see if the situation would change at all if EE played 5.

For now it seems like Fnatic is in a pretty similar situation as they were with Ohaiyo. They'll probably beat TNC or Mineski in some quals and maybe even place well in some minors, but as of now it doesn't seem like they are on their way to become the clear #1 team in the region. I don't think it's just about drafting and calling. For example it feels to me that Fnatic has lost the warding battle in quite a few of their games, but I haven't watched all their games that closely so it may not be the correct impression. Also individually even Abed has had some pretty bad games at times. In today's last game against TNC the game ended with those few terrible fights (one of which started from Fnatic themselves smoking under TNC's ward and TNC knowing pretty much where they were going to be), but the game started far worse than it needed to with Abed giving away his good lane by moving past the tower and feeding both the courier and first blood. Not sure what exactly happened so that the creep wave ended up so deep to begin with.

Deleted User 173346

16169 Posts

February 09 2018 18:47 GMT

#439

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FuzzyJAM

Scotland9300 Posts

February 09 2018 21:10 GMT

#440

If EE had played like Abed recently people would be calling for a new mid. But Envy teams just have Envy hatred.

I think the team is still fine. They're not going to win TI but they should at least make it there.