On August 11 2015 03:39 Beirut wrote: What a year and a half. First S A D B O Y S, then the Fear/Mason substitution that might have cost us an aegis, then the great western shuffle that took away two of the best players in the world. So proud of this team and happy to have seen them play live four times over that period, including both TIs.
Now for some ridiculous speculation to release my post TI hype. A couple big questions for EG going forward.
Will Fear retire? The answer to this is probably no. He seems like he has his arm injury under control, and while most people like to joke about Fear being old he's only fucking 27. In the NBA you're like a spring chicken and you still recover incredibly well from physical injuries. If he can train and perform at the level needed to win a TI, this isn't his last year. Mentally he has always seemed like he's invested in the game and still enjoys/loves playing; I've rarely seen him exhausted or burnt out like Arteezy or something. It's not like he has a wife/family, or other commitments to really bring him away from the game. It's the only shit he's ever really known unless he has some watercolor painting hobby or something I don't know about.
Will the roster change? The answer again is probably no. It's obvious at this point that PPD is the focal point of EG. I think Universe is the best offlaner in the world and his communication style is perfect for a team led by PPD; the same can be said for Sumail for the mid position, albeit less dominant compared to his peers. Aui 2000 seems to have worked out well once he adjusted to the new team and communication style - I think the roster stays the same through the first major.
Will they stay motivated? Unfortunately the answer is probably no. As much as I would love to think that Sumail will diligently practice new heroes to add to his small hero pool and expand his playstyle, he's a 16 year old that just won $1.3 million dollars and achieved the highest goal in the only game/life he's ever known. The best thing about this kid is his desire to be the best; I can't help but think that will be tempered after, well, becoming the best.
This is also a squad that is known to lapse into long periods of not practicing or caring about their performance once they've achieved some success. PPD has always said these guys aren't close friends - they're coworkers. That's not the kind of environment that really breeds a lot of consistency when money isn't on the line. And when you look at a prize purse of $100,000 compared to a prize pool of $6,600,000... that's not really a lot of money on the line.
Whatever happens, it's going to be a fun year watching this team play Dota. I'm terrified by the finish of the past TI winners at TI5, and if we can stay competitive for TI6 I'll be really happy. EG now has a change to establish themselves as a consistent TI contender for a second year, and I hope they don't let the opportunity go to waste. I think the best thing that could happen for them is another NA team emerges as their predominant rival [insert Team Liquid hype here], I think it would push them to stay on top of their game for another long year.
The majors should play a key factor to keep the tension up , there should be much more then 100k in those , also Fear is 27 which isnt old but its most def isnt young for a guy with 0 education , you cannot retire with what he has in the USA , just too expensive (unless he lives in some god forsaken hole in the US and work in a gas station) , he needs to make as much as possible from his gaming carrer so he is NOT quitting if he can still play , AUI and PPD are uni grads i think so if anyone stops playing its them before Fear.
PPD wants to be the GOAT captain. He knows the only way to do this right now is win another. Also the dude just doesn't spend money, so I don't know how important these winnings are to him. There are real question marks elsewhere, especially with Suma1L having most of high school and his teenage years ahead of him. With Fear's age and medical status. Aui I'm not too worried about. Universe just shows up and works like Fear and he seems to get real enjoyment out of it in his calm Zen Disney kind of way.
I think the biggest question overall is not loss of motivation based on success but burnout. We'll see!
On August 11 2015 03:39 Beirut wrote: What a year and a half. First S A D B O Y S, then the Fear/Mason substitution that might have cost us an aegis, then the great western shuffle that took away two of the best players in the world. So proud of this team and happy to have seen them play live four times over that period, including both TIs.
Now for some ridiculous speculation to release my post TI hype. A couple big questions for EG going forward.
Will Fear retire? The answer to this is probably no. He seems like he has his arm injury under control, and while most people like to joke about Fear being old he's only fucking 27. In the NBA you're like a spring chicken and you still recover incredibly well from physical injuries. If he can train and perform at the level needed to win a TI, this isn't his last year. Mentally he has always seemed like he's invested in the game and still enjoys/loves playing; I've rarely seen him exhausted or burnt out like Arteezy or something. It's not like he has a wife/family, or other commitments to really bring him away from the game. It's the only shit he's ever really known unless he has some watercolor painting hobby or something I don't know about.
Will the roster change? The answer again is probably no. It's obvious at this point that PPD is the focal point of EG. I think Universe is the best offlaner in the world and his communication style is perfect for a team led by PPD; the same can be said for Sumail for the mid position, albeit less dominant compared to his peers. Aui 2000 seems to have worked out well once he adjusted to the new team and communication style - I think the roster stays the same through the first major.
Will they stay motivated? Unfortunately the answer is probably no. As much as I would love to think that Sumail will diligently practice new heroes to add to his small hero pool and expand his playstyle, he's a 16 year old that just won $1.3 million dollars and achieved the highest goal in the only game/life he's ever known. The best thing about this kid is his desire to be the best; I can't help but think that will be tempered after, well, becoming the best.
This is also a squad that is known to lapse into long periods of not practicing or caring about their performance once they've achieved some success. PPD has always said these guys aren't close friends - they're coworkers. That's not the kind of environment that really breeds a lot of consistency when money isn't on the line. And when you look at a prize purse of $100,000 compared to a prize pool of $6,600,000... that's not really a lot of money on the line.
Whatever happens, it's going to be a fun year watching this team play Dota. I'm terrified by the finish of the past TI winners at TI5, and if we can stay competitive for TI6 I'll be really happy. EG now has a change to establish themselves as a consistent TI contender for a second year, and I hope they don't let the opportunity go to waste. I think the best thing that could happen for them is another NA team emerges as their predominant rival [insert Team Liquid hype here], I think it would push them to stay on top of their game for another long year.
The majors should play a key factor to keep the tension up , there should be much more then 100k in those , also Fear is 27 which isnt old but its most def isnt young for a guy with 0 education , you cannot retire with what he has in the USA , just too expensive (unless he lives in some god forsaken hole in the US and work in a gas station) , he needs to make as much as possible from his gaming carrer so he is NOT quitting if he can still play , AUI and PPD are uni grads i think so if anyone stops playing its them before Fear.
I mean I don't know what Fear's goals are outside of Dota 2, but once he's done gaming he should just invest his money safely to make a low, consistent return and probably go to school. Just because you're 30 doesn't mean you can't get a BS/BA degree, or even a 5/6 year Master's degree program. As long as he's making decent money from gaming he's not really on the clock for any reasons apart from personal life & relationship expectations. From there he could pursue anything he wants, although I know that any company in the gaming industry would likely hire him on the spot as a game designer or esports consultant if that's something he wants to do.
IMO that should really be the path of any of these guys once they quit gaming. Just utilize your skillset and transition into something that leverages your existing accomplishments. If you are the best in the world at something, use that to leverage the start of your career. Look at Day9; he has his esports gigs but he knew how to market himself to game developers and now has steady work after his time in the spotlight has dimmed a bit.
On August 11 2015 04:01 Steelavocado wrote: PPD is a fucking boss.
Also Universe is a good looking human and has a great smile no homo
You really don't have to say no homo here, it's not high school.
I mean I don't know what Fear's goals are outside of Dota 2, but once he's done gaming he should just invest his money safely to make a low, consistent return and probably go to school. Just because you're 30 doesn't mean you can't get a BS/BA degree, or even a 5/6 year Master's degree program. As long as he's making decent money from gaming he's not really on the clock for any reasons apart from personal life & relationship expectations. From there he could pursue anything he wants, although I know that any company in the gaming industry would likely hire him on the spot as a game designer or esports consultant if that's something he wants to do.
The Dota2 broadcasting world is waiting for star players from this generation to truly retire. Fear's not the most charismatic guy but he'd bring a lot to broadcasts, and now that Valve is hosting four events a year there might be a reasonable salary in it for some people.
I'm pretty sure his life goals have been about professional gaming for most of his life. Who knows if he has some kind of secondary ambitions, but broadcasting is a decent way to "retire."
I mean I don't know what Fear's goals are outside of Dota 2, but once he's done gaming he should just invest his money safely to make a low, consistent return and probably go to school. Just because you're 30 doesn't mean you can't get a BS/BA degree, or even a 5/6 year Master's degree program. As long as he's making decent money from gaming he's not really on the clock for any reasons apart from personal life & relationship expectations. From there he could pursue anything he wants, although I know that any company in the gaming industry would likely hire him on the spot as a game designer or esports consultant if that's something he wants to do.
The Dota2 broadcasting world is waiting for star players from this generation to truly retire. Fear's not the most charismatic guy but he'd bring a lot to broadcasts, and now that Valve is hosting four events a year there might be a reasonable salary in it for some people.
I'm pretty sure his life goals have been about professional gaming for most of his life. Who knows if he has some kind of secondary ambitions, but broadcasting is a decent way to "retire."
I think this path is really poor actually for a lot of reasons, and I'm disappointed that it has become one of the top things that players attempt when they retire from professional play. When you retire from Dota 2 it's probably because (A) you're not as good as you once were or (B) the game isn't popular anymore.
If it's the former, then I guess you have the choice of going into broadcasting. However, any role in broadcasting takes a skillset that is far different than the one you probably possess. The most successful on-air analysts have been people who weren't terribly successful at professional Dota, but are really personable and have a great feel for how to talk about the game and make their knowledge succinct and accessible (Blitz/Synderen... Grubby from WC/SC is a great example but had a lot of success). The latter is a skill the vast majority - like 99% - of the Dota 2 professional gamers don't have. Yes it's nice to hear them talk on the couch at The Summit, but I don't really want Fear or EE co-casting with LD at TI6 finals (or the Majors for that matter). Notail? Maybe, he's probably part of that 1%.
If it's the latter (the game is dying) then you're literally just out of jobs, because the market for broadcasting positions is shrinking rapidly. You don't have to look far to see how a lot of this shook out for games that have died off as esports. Those people fade into obscurity as fast as they came up, except for the few who are able to transition to other games. Better I think to plan for something more stable, but still in your wheelhouse and skillset.
Eh, considering their total winnings per player by now are well in excess of 2 million, any of them could retire whenever and wherever they wanted and live a very, very comfortable life provided they aren't completely and utterly retarded with money. You can easily get a 50k+ per year return off a million dollars with pretty much no risk of your investments failing and very little work involved, and leave the other million for a house and a compound interest account to keep up with the inflation. If you think 50k per year for life without lifting a finger, on top of having a million+ worth of property / secondary investments isn't enough to 'retire' comfortably, I don't know what your standards are, lol.
On August 11 2015 08:25 Salazarz wrote: Eh, considering their total winnings per player by now are well in excess of 2 million, any of them could retire whenever and wherever they wanted and live a very, very comfortable life provided they aren't completely and utterly retarded with money. You can easily get a 50k+ per year return off a million dollars with pretty much no risk of your investments failing and very little work involved, and leave the other million for a house and a compound interest account to keep up with the inflation. If you think 50k per year for life without lifting a finger, on top of having a million+ worth of property / secondary investments isn't enough to 'retire' comfortably, I don't know what your standards are, lol.
One correction: none of them have cleared 2M in winnings yet. Universe could be the first ever player to do so very soon though. The rest aren't far.
That said, it totally depends on what you like. I love gaming and everything, which is a very cheap lifestyle to maintain, but it's a lot less good than being able to travel a lot. If I had a million in the bank and could make a fairly easy living as a broadcast personality, I'd do it, because that would mean that, within reason, whenever I'm not working I can really live life. A travel heavy lifestyle can drain a million dollars from your bank alarmingly fast. Staying productive and continuing to make a salary and then living it up when you're not busy? That's a much better life, to me. At least while you're young enough to enjoy it. Fear's got a lot of those years ahead of him.
On August 11 2015 08:25 Salazarz wrote: Eh, considering their total winnings per player by now are well in excess of 2 million, any of them could retire whenever and wherever they wanted and live a very, very comfortable life provided they aren't completely and utterly retarded with money. You can easily get a 50k+ per year return off a million dollars with pretty much no risk of your investments failing and very little work involved, and leave the other million for a house and a compound interest account to keep up with the inflation. If you think 50k per year for life without lifting a finger, on top of having a million+ worth of property / secondary investments isn't enough to 'retire' comfortably, I don't know what your standards are, lol.
As far as I can see none of these players have made enough to retire comfortably, even if they live as single males for the rest of their lives and invest very safely. It's a very common misconception. Their esports winnings are considerably more than their 'take home money' because of their organization's cut and taxes; no one has actually taken home anything close to $2,000,000. The income they can actually invest is much less even before you subtract the cash purchases they're likely going to make like cars and houses for themselves and for family. $50,000 is not enough to live comfortably in a lot of places in the United States and around the world, and it certainly isn't enough when you start factoring in expenses that come with a spouse, kids, college tuitions, etc. and taxes on their stock returns.
Maybe that will change next year if some of the top players win again, but for now if they want to retire and live a normal life without working ever again, then they need to make some more $$$.
I mean the rent on my apartment is like $36k/yr and if we owned the condo we'd still have property taxes and utilities and repairs and the HOA before we even get to food clothes entertainment life size sex mannequins car stuff etc
On August 11 2015 09:01 FHDH wrote: I mean the rent on my apartment is like $36k/yr and if we owned the condo we'd still have property taxes and utilities and repairs and the HOA before we even get to food clothes entertainment life size sex mannequins car stuff etc
And if you want a good sex mannequin they can get pretty expensive.
On August 11 2015 09:01 FHDH wrote: I mean the rent on my apartment is like $36k/yr and if we owned the condo we'd still have property taxes and utilities and repairs and the HOA before we even get to food clothes entertainment life size sex mannequins car stuff etc
And if you want a good sex mannequin they can get pretty expensive.
On August 11 2015 08:25 Salazarz wrote: Eh, considering their total winnings per player by now are well in excess of 2 million, any of them could retire whenever and wherever they wanted and live a very, very comfortable life provided they aren't completely and utterly retarded with money. You can easily get a 50k+ per year return off a million dollars with pretty much no risk of your investments failing and very little work involved, and leave the other million for a house and a compound interest account to keep up with the inflation. If you think 50k per year for life without lifting a finger, on top of having a million+ worth of property / secondary investments isn't enough to 'retire' comfortably, I don't know what your standards are, lol.
As far as I can see none of these players have made enough to retire comfortably, even if they live as single males for the rest of their lives and invest very safely. It's a very common misconception. Their esports winnings are considerably more than their 'take home money' because of their organization's cut and taxes; no one has actually taken home anything close to $2,000,000. The income they can actually invest is much less even before you subtract the cash purchases they're likely going to make like cars and houses for themselves and for family. $50,000 is not enough to live comfortably in a lot of places in the United States and around the world, and it certainly isn't enough when you start factoring in expenses that come with a spouse, kids, college tuitions, etc. and taxes on their stock returns.
Maybe that will change next year if some of the top players win again, but for now if they want to retire and live a normal life without working ever again, then they need to make some more $$$.
Just want to echo Beirut here: first of all no one's getting 5% returns on low risk investments over the long term. Maybe the past few years because the market has been good but again that's the last few years, not the long term. 5% return on low risk investments (if I recall correctly from economics) implies 5% GDP growth in the market in question, which is just ridiculous.
Second of all, let's suppose Fear doesn't live in NY or CA, to make this easier for him. Assume a 10% cut for EG the org (probably on the low end) and just national income taxes. I think highest marginal tax bracket is 37.5% right now, and the vast majority of Fear's earnings shows up there. So off the bat Fear is down to $1m. Even if he's getting 5% returns on his low risk investments (lol) then he still has no capital to actually put down for the house like what was suggested originally.
Third of all Fear has quite some time to go before he dies. Likely about 60 years. So the risk for him is that at any point in the next 60 years the markets tank out completely, and he winds up eating like 20% of his portfolio' principle over a couple of years when it's value tanks because of the markets. in other words, the usual retirement logic, which applies to 60+ year olds, does not apply to this (relatively) healthy 27 year old.
oh and does anyone have a clue how much these casters make? My guess is not that much. If anything it seems like the number of people interested in casting Dota right now FAR outstrips the number of opportunities to get paid for doing so. I mean, just look at LD's blog about TI5.
On August 11 2015 09:01 FHDH wrote: I mean the rent on my apartment is like $36k/yr and if we owned the condo we'd still have property taxes and utilities and repairs and the HOA before we even get to food clothes entertainment life size sex mannequins car stuff etc
And if you want a good sex mannequin they can get pretty expensive.
The rent on mine is like $36k/yr.
Bah clearly you're not paying NYC prices. Wish I could get one that cheap.
On August 11 2015 09:01 FHDH wrote: I mean the rent on my apartment is like $36k/yr and if we owned the condo we'd still have property taxes and utilities and repairs and the HOA before we even get to food clothes entertainment life size sex mannequins car stuff etc
And if you want a good sex mannequin they can get pretty expensive.
The rent on mine is like $36k/yr.
Bah clearly you're not paying NYC prices. Wish I could get one that cheap.
Just moved from NYC in May to Southern California... prices didn't drop as much as I wanted them too lol.
On August 11 2015 09:01 FHDH wrote: I mean the rent on my apartment is like $36k/yr and if we owned the condo we'd still have property taxes and utilities and repairs and the HOA before we even get to food clothes entertainment life size sex mannequins car stuff etc
And if you want a good sex mannequin they can get pretty expensive.
The rent on mine is like $36k/yr.
Bah clearly you're not paying NYC prices. Wish I could get one that cheap.
Just moved from NYC in May to Southern California... prices didn't drop as much as I wanted them too lol.
Pretty good draft analysis, nothing huge but some cool insights about a few hero matchups in this meta. Funny hearing that PPD mixes and matches the first bans just to fuck with people. It's also funny that Sumail encouraged PPD to grab the AA pick for the last game and expressed a lot of confidence about it. Would like to hear more stories about Sumail in the booth, he's a total mystery.
Something I've said for awhile now is that I wish PPD would branch out to other supports, especially more aggressive 5s. Everyone knows he can't play certain heroes, and it makes a lot of bans pretty obvious when they need a PPD hero. I know they wanted the CM in the third (?) game, and PPD said they might've taken it had they not banned it. Seems like he could put some work into expanding his hero pool this season. That goes for a lot of pro players, but I just love watching PPD and hope he can own on some new heroes soon.
1) The thought that "we kinda felt like we won once we picked the Slark" and 2) That they banned AM instead of PL (and that they didn't pick PL for Aggressif.)
When I watched game 3, Slark was giving them HELL to deal with with their lack of lockdown and how quickly what they had was purged with Dark Pact. I thought if anything their ability to win that game boiled down to some brilliant plays from Universe on Clock turning the fight into a 4v5. I suppose you could argue that AM would be able to bypass that, but still. Moreover, why wouldn't they ban PL? Aggressif is clearly more comfortable on PL.
EPT
