EPTOn August 30 2013 06:45 treeqt wrote:
the current kp is a much much better team than dignitas
the current kp is a much much better team than dignitas
Yes/maybe, but that's not the point, the security of being sponsored was
The post-TI3 Roster Shuffle thread - Page 125
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AwfuL_
Netherlands6976 Posts
Yes/maybe, but that's not the point, the security of being sponsored was | ||
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Jaaaaasper
United States10225 Posts
On August 30 2013 06:37 MrHoon wrote: I don't think Loda is bad at all He's just an easy target for people because all the other 4 players in Alliance shine so damn bright. The reasinable people making such claims don't say he is bad, just not as good as his team mates. And then you have the anti b[A]ndwagoners who will take any shot at eg eu that they can. People used to express that he was a top carry, but not as much ahead of others as the other players on that team. The fact that any one of the players on that team could make lesser players look better, much less any 4 of them, means that claiming one of the players isn't as good as the others can be made for any of them. "loda wouldn't be as good with out his supports and bulldog/s4 making space for him" "bulldog wouldn't be as good if teams could ban him out rather than having to spread bans over the whole team" "s4 is a good mid, but he wouldn't do as well if the team didn't keep him in the game till he makes that one big play" "EGM isn't that great, akke covers for him in lane" "Akke isn't that great, laning with loda every game would make any support look good" See what I mean? | ||
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trifecta
United States6795 Posts
On August 30 2013 06:45 treeqt wrote: ok calm down stephen a the current kp is a much much better team than dignitas make that top 3 did you just reference stephen a smith on TL? I just lol'd. | ||
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pdd
Australia9933 Posts
On August 30 2013 05:10 renfree wrote: Anyone remember NTH performing extremely well with Black^ at the start of their career? That should answer your questions about best carries. Can you imagine Na`Vi w/o XBOCT? nope. Can you imagine DK w/o BurNIng? nope. Can you imagine BurNIng w/o DK? certainly. Can you imagine Alliance w/o Loda? certainly. That's extremely subjective and flawed logic. I cannot imagine Alliance having the successes that they had without Loda, while I can imagine Na'vi having successes with XBOCT. I don't understand how this thread just turned into a hate on Loda thread. Let's talk about some of the amazing news and rumours that we've heard in the last 24 hours instead of bashing on Loda please. | ||
TheYango
United States47024 Posts
On August 30 2013 06:37 MrHoon wrote: I don't think Loda is bad at all He's just an easy target for people because all the other 4 players in Alliance shine so damn bright. Loda is also a carry who is willing to make sacrifices for his team, which is a rare but undervalued quality among carry players. To be willing to sacrifice his own development trusting that his team can make use of the greater farm/levels that his team gets requires a tremendous amount of trust in his team. Likewise it requires trust from his team that he can make back his disadvantage with the space they give him later. Most teams tend to baby their carries super hard, and give them the best possible situation. It's rare that a team will be willing to sacrifice their carry in favor of the other 4, and it's rarer that the carry will be good at playing out that situation and becoming the most farmed again anyway. Even among the top tier Chinese carries, only Zhou and Burning could be said to have exhibited this quality, and Zhou's form has been poor lately (LGD.CN has always babied Sylar really hard, which has always been the dealbreaker for me in calling him "the best carry"--we've simply never seen him in a scenario where he's made those sacrifices). | ||
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Kosak
Czech Republic193 Posts
na'vis style is way more reckless, very dependent onto almost outrageously aggressive play from xboct, with the latest changes to the dota itself the mid role isnt as deciding as it used to be so na'vis success = credit to xboct | ||
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treeqt
Germany237 Posts
On August 30 2013 07:37 trifecta wrote: did you just reference stephen a smith on TL? I just lol'd. so damn DIS-RE-SPECT-FUL On August 30 2013 07:29 AwfuL_ wrote: Yes/maybe, but that's not the point, the security of being sponsored was Fair enough but I don't think he cares too much about all that right now  | ||
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MrCon
France29748 Posts
On August 30 2013 07:29 AwfuL_ wrote: Yes/maybe, but that's not the point, the security of being sponsored was I think dota teams' "market" is still dynamic enough that if you're forming a new and even totally unknown team and have spectacular results you can reasonably expect to find a sponsorship, perhaps he's banking on that as KP seems to have the will and the skill to make it big. Hell, look at Alliance. | ||
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superstartran
United States4013 Posts
On August 30 2013 06:57 pedrlz wrote: Why people can't accept that carries players have different roles? You can't compare xboct and burning like you can't compare dendi and s4. You can rate players, in my opinion, for their mechanics, map awareness, decision making, reflex, hero pool, etc. A standard carries job is to either bail his team out when they are severely behind, or for him to ensure victory for them late game. Burning does both almost exponentially better than any other player out there. He has proven time and time again that he is able to snowball absurdly hard, while also farming even under some of the most dire of conditions. | ||
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MotherOfRunes
Germany2862 Posts
On August 30 2013 07:42 TheYango wrote: Loda is also a carry who is willing to make sacrifices for his team, which is a rare but undervalued quality among carry players. To be willing to sacrifice his own development trusting that his team can make use of the greater farm/levels that his team gets requires a tremendous amount of trust in his team. Likewise it requires trust from his team that he can make back his disadvantage with the space they give him later. Most teams tend to baby their carries super hard, and give them the best possible situation. It's rare that a team will be willing to sacrifice their carry in favor of the other 4, and it's rarer that the carry will be good at playing out that situation and becoming the most farmed again anyway. Even among the top tier Chinese carries, only Zhou and Burning could be said to have exhibited this quality, and Zhou's form has been poor lately (LGD.CN has always babied Sylar really hard, which has always been the dealbreaker for me in calling him "the best carry"--we've simply never seen him in a scenario where he's made those sacrifices). well spoken | ||
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yawnoC
United States3704 Posts
On August 30 2013 07:42 TheYango wrote: This. My feelings about Loda are similar. I don't think Loda is the BEST carry in the world but I think he is the best carry for Alliance. They just fit together so well.Loda is also a carry who is willing to make sacrifices for his team, which is a rare but undervalued quality among carry players. To be willing to sacrifice his own development trusting that his team can make use of the greater farm/levels that his team gets requires a tremendous amount of trust in his team. Likewise it requires trust from his team that he can make back his disadvantage with the space they give him later. Most teams tend to baby their carries super hard, and give them the best possible situation. It's rare that a team will be willing to sacrifice their carry in favor of the other 4, and it's rarer that the carry will be good at playing out that situation and becoming the most farmed again anyway. Even among the top tier Chinese carries, only Zhou and Burning could be said to have exhibited this quality, and Zhou's form has been poor lately (LGD.CN has always babied Sylar really hard, which has always been the dealbreaker for me in calling him "the best carry"--we've simply never seen him in a scenario where he's made those sacrifices). | ||
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Caladbolg
2855 Posts
And as to Burning... it's not his free farm skills that set him apart - it's his game sense, positioning, item choice, and decision-making that do. It's not about him having a free farm lane (which makes him identical to nearly every other carry), but about him knowing what to do best to carry and snowball in any situation (whether behind or not). | ||
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fascistfromhell
1689 Posts
I wonder what EG is going to do. Korok, Brax, 1437, Universe, Fogged...So many good players "available". | ||
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andyrau
13015 Posts
On August 30 2013 08:11 Caladbolg wrote: People are looking down on Loda AND Burning? What is this world coming to? Loda was one of the most versatile carries in TI3, playing different styles of either rat dota, 5man, etc, getting involved in early-mid teamfights and still farming pretty well. He didn't make a whole lot of flashy plays but that's simply the nature of playing in Alliance - they all share the load of being flashy (whether it be s4 puck, AB prophet, Akke kotl, or EGM wr/cm) depending on when those plays are called for. I can't believe people are saying any other carry could replace Loda... lol, that's pretty ignorant. And as to Burning... it's not his free farm skills that set him apart - it's his game sense, positioning, item choice, and decision-making that do. It's not about him having a free farm lane (which makes him identical to nearly every other carry), but about him knowing what to do best to carry and snowball in any situation (whether behind or not). nobody's looking down on them, we're just discussing whether Loda (and I guess others) is/are (a) world class carry(ies) common consensus seems to be he's the best carry for Alliance, but not one of the best carries overall grant's just being a prima telling us we're flaming Loda | ||
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zaii
Guam2611 Posts
On August 30 2013 08:11 fascistfromhell wrote: I'll be quite happy if Liquid gets qojqva and wts. ixmike had to go. I wonder what EG is going to do. Korok, Brax, 1437, Universe, Fogged...So many good players "available". With the available players right now, That should pretty much be the new dignitas right there. | ||
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SnowfaLL
Canada730 Posts
On August 30 2013 08:11 fascistfromhell wrote: I'll be quite happy if Liquid gets qojqva and wts. ixmike had to go. I wonder what EG is going to do. Korok, Brax, 1437, Universe, Fogged...So many good players "available". What would be even better is if wts starts doing the drafting, or least collaborates with fluff on it. I really think TC should focus on just playing. That would be awesome. I agree, mike doesnt fit the Liquid mold at all, just watching his stream today made me wonder how this guys personality ever got Nazgul's approval.. constant raging, insults,.. not good. | ||
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pdd
Australia9933 Posts
Vanskor to Empire: Not that surprising, I'm guessing Empire will pretty much finalize the line-up with Sunlight? Resolution to VP and ARS-ART to free-agency: Surprising, but this would fit better for VP's roster. I'm wondering if AA's goes to retirement or back to Na'Vi. In either case, Resolution at VP will be really good for his career. The rest of his team are pretty much legends and assuming they don't disband, this is probably the CIS dreamteam. I have a feeling crazy/tmw will now join up with TTD (ex-iCCup) since he stood in for them last EIZO Cup Aui_2000 possibly to Kaipi: Not too surprised. He or 1437 were my favorites to replace Arteezy. Aui, EE and Sing are a scary team of | ||
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Presidenten
Sweden777 Posts
so vanskor to empire official btw feel sad for http://wiki.teamliquid.net/dota2/Terrible_Terrible_Damage, they were looking really strong and now captain Resolut1on left them  | ||
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ch33psh33p
7650 Posts
It was so fucking obvious a tryout, and he got it. Sure pros stack together for fun, but lately the streams have been pretty heavily tryout centered. http://i.imgur.com/USdQl0J.png http://i.imgur.com/uXpLHab.png Charlie is Dignitas ex-manager, ewsdfxcsefr is Sing. Tryouts were between Aui and Fata, Aui got it. | ||
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Angra
United States2652 Posts
On August 30 2013 07:45 Kosak wrote: thats just completely wrong, alliance is less dependent on big moves by loda because they just dont need them, theyre playing slower style with more farming time while the rest of the team is creating a huge amount of space all around the map na'vis style is way more reckless, very dependent onto almost outrageously aggressive play from xboct, with the latest changes to the dota itself the mid role isnt as deciding as it used to be so na'vis success = credit to xboct This is a pretty good point. Bulldog usually ends up with more gold than Loda does at the end of their longer games. And they tend to stretch games out pretty long most of the time so more than just Loda can get that farm, unless they are dominating early. | ||
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