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On August 16 2013 03:14 TheRabidDeer wrote:Show nested quote +On August 16 2013 03:08 Jisall wrote:
The problem with diablo was that they dumbed down the skill builds.
In diablo 2 you had to plan out carefully your skill builds, in D3 there is no mechanic like that.
You build one of each class, instead of one of each class build, then they added paragon levels which only encourages people to build 1 of each class. Totally went the wrong way. They didnt dumb it down, they removed boring tedium. Instead of going to a skill calculator online and putting in your plan there you just pick your abilities. Same end result without the fiddling of putting 1 point into skills you wont ever use. Instead of using a hacked 99 singleplayer character template to test a build, you just pick your skills and try it out. Instead of getting enough strength to carry gear, dex to block, then rest into vit, it just does it automatically. It isnt dumbed down, it is less tedious.
It's extremely dumbed down. You can debate whether that's good or bad, but the skill system is beyond simplistic. Guild Wars has a skill slot system as well, and it's far more complex and far more customizable.
And games like Borderlands still have the skill tree, don't have dumb 1 point "required" skills, and have instant respecs.
Diablo 3's skill system is probably the most simplistic and least versatile of any game in the genre from recent years.
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On August 16 2013 03:14 TheRabidDeer wrote:Show nested quote +On August 16 2013 03:08 Jisall wrote:
The problem with diablo was that they dumbed down the skill builds.
In diablo 2 you had to plan out carefully your skill builds, in D3 there is no mechanic like that.
You build one of each class, instead of one of each class build, then they added paragon levels which only encourages people to build 1 of each class. Totally went the wrong way. They didnt dumb it down, they removed boring tedium. Instead of going to a skill calculator online and putting in your plan there you just pick your abilities. Same end result without the fiddling of putting 1 point into skills you wont ever use. Instead of using a hacked 99 singleplayer character template to test a build, you just pick your skills and try it out. Instead of getting enough strength to carry gear, dex to block, then rest into vit, it just does it automatically. It isnt dumbed down, it is less tedious.
Apologetic morons like you are why we can't have nice things anymore. Keep lapping it up.
User was warned for this post
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Again they want to build hype up... for... for what?
D3 is a shitty game, not being patched for half a year now. Was not worth the money.
Not gonna buy an expansion with a new act and 2 new classes, certainly not!
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On August 16 2013 03:08 Jisall wrote:
The problem with diablo was that they dumbed down the skill builds.
In diablo 2 you had to plan out carefully your skill builds, in D3 there is no mechanic like that.
You build one of each class, instead of one of each class build, then they added paragon levels which only encourages people to build 1 of each class. Totally went the wrong way.
you say dumbed down, i say removed the bullshit that wasn't fun anyways.
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On August 16 2013 03:26 dAPhREAk wrote:Show nested quote +On August 16 2013 03:08 Jisall wrote:
The problem with diablo was that they dumbed down the skill builds.
In diablo 2 you had to plan out carefully your skill builds, in D3 there is no mechanic like that.
You build one of each class, instead of one of each class build, then they added paragon levels which only encourages people to build 1 of each class. Totally went the wrong way. you say dumbed down, i say removed the bullshit that wasn't fun anyways.
You and I have two different versions of fun, I got that OCD, so optimizing builds and gear, breaking the game, etc. is fun to me.
Literally nobody got level 99, and if you did that was fucking awesome, since you optimize your damage, but it was fucking rediculous to get to 99. Plus if you were playing more then one character you didn't have time to 99 them all.
Also multiplayer games had like 8 party members compared to 4 now. More people competing for the same items was fun.
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On August 16 2013 03:20 WolfintheSheep wrote:Show nested quote +On August 16 2013 03:14 TheRabidDeer wrote:On August 16 2013 03:08 Jisall wrote:
The problem with diablo was that they dumbed down the skill builds.
In diablo 2 you had to plan out carefully your skill builds, in D3 there is no mechanic like that.
You build one of each class, instead of one of each class build, then they added paragon levels which only encourages people to build 1 of each class. Totally went the wrong way. They didnt dumb it down, they removed boring tedium. Instead of going to a skill calculator online and putting in your plan there you just pick your abilities. Same end result without the fiddling of putting 1 point into skills you wont ever use. Instead of using a hacked 99 singleplayer character template to test a build, you just pick your skills and try it out. Instead of getting enough strength to carry gear, dex to block, then rest into vit, it just does it automatically. It isnt dumbed down, it is less tedious. It's extremely dumbed down. You can debate whether that's good or bad, but the skill system is beyond simplistic. Guild Wars has a skill slot system as well, and it's far more complex and far more customizable. And games like Borderlands still have the skill tree, don't have dumb 1 point "required" skills, and have instant respecs. Diablo 3's skill system is probably the most simplistic and least versatile of any game in the genre from recent years.
How is it dumbed down and how is it not versatile? What can you do in other games that you cant do in D3?
On August 16 2013 03:20 blinken wrote:Show nested quote +On August 16 2013 03:14 TheRabidDeer wrote:On August 16 2013 03:08 Jisall wrote:
The problem with diablo was that they dumbed down the skill builds.
In diablo 2 you had to plan out carefully your skill builds, in D3 there is no mechanic like that.
You build one of each class, instead of one of each class build, then they added paragon levels which only encourages people to build 1 of each class. Totally went the wrong way. They didnt dumb it down, they removed boring tedium. Instead of going to a skill calculator online and putting in your plan there you just pick your abilities. Same end result without the fiddling of putting 1 point into skills you wont ever use. Instead of using a hacked 99 singleplayer character template to test a build, you just pick your skills and try it out. Instead of getting enough strength to carry gear, dex to block, then rest into vit, it just does it automatically. It isnt dumbed down, it is less tedious. Apologetic morons like you are why we can't have nice things anymore. Keep lapping it up.
What? I am sorry that I enjoyed a game?
To people saying that D3 is dumbed down and there is no versatility, can you explain the throw barbs or melee DH? If it is so simplistic and dumbed down and terrible, how is it that these are viable builds that are polar opposites of what the class normally does?
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On August 16 2013 03:29 Jisall wrote:Show nested quote +On August 16 2013 03:26 dAPhREAk wrote:On August 16 2013 03:08 Jisall wrote:
The problem with diablo was that they dumbed down the skill builds.
In diablo 2 you had to plan out carefully your skill builds, in D3 there is no mechanic like that.
You build one of each class, instead of one of each class build, then they added paragon levels which only encourages people to build 1 of each class. Totally went the wrong way. you say dumbed down, i say removed the bullshit that wasn't fun anyways. You and I have two different versions of fun, I got that OCD, so optimizing builds and gear, breaking the game, etc. is fun to me.
If you have OCD you should be thankful they removed that tedium. You can still optimize builds and gear. In fact, it is harder to achieve a perfect character in D3 than it ever was in D2 so you should be loving that part of it.
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On August 16 2013 03:26 dAPhREAk wrote:Show nested quote +On August 16 2013 03:08 Jisall wrote:
The problem with diablo was that they dumbed down the skill builds.
In diablo 2 you had to plan out carefully your skill builds, in D3 there is no mechanic like that.
You build one of each class, instead of one of each class build, then they added paragon levels which only encourages people to build 1 of each class. Totally went the wrong way. you say dumbed down, i say removed the bullshit that wasn't fun anyways.
but i dont think those are mutually exclusive goals. i personally dont buy the dumb down argument, for all its faults and whatnot diablo (at least for me) doesnt derive its fun from obscuring how the game works. i agree they removed a lot of crap that actually wasnt fun, but at the same time they ended up creating more stuff that was unfun in the process. so on the whole the game is no better, it has as many faults but they are just different.
now diablo was a great game, but released today it wouldnt get highly rated by anyone. too many of the mechanics of d3 are straight out of D2, theres no progress in the series, i dont feel like its a superior product. you could forgive d2 at the time because in a way we didnt know any better, and obviously the limitations of technology. but now that computers and gaming in general have progressed so far some of those mechanics are simply painful.
obviously thats just my opinion but i think that a decent proportion of D3's faults come from that fact that although the games were released over a decade a part, there wasnt a decade of improvement and innovation there. its a game from 2004 released in 2012. its a similar gripe many people had with the latest duke nukem, by sticking so closely to the original, but taking over a decade to get it out, the game just feels stale and outdated, because the world has moved on, but the game hasnt.
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On August 16 2013 03:32 turdburgler wrote:Show nested quote +On August 16 2013 03:26 dAPhREAk wrote:On August 16 2013 03:08 Jisall wrote:
The problem with diablo was that they dumbed down the skill builds.
In diablo 2 you had to plan out carefully your skill builds, in D3 there is no mechanic like that.
You build one of each class, instead of one of each class build, then they added paragon levels which only encourages people to build 1 of each class. Totally went the wrong way. you say dumbed down, i say removed the bullshit that wasn't fun anyways. but i dont think those are mutually exclusive goals. i personally dont buy the dumb down argument, for all its faults and whatnot diablo (at least for me) doesnt derive its fun from obscuring how the game works. i agree they removed a lot of crap that actually wasnt fun, but at the same time they ended up creating more stuff that was unfun in the process. so on the whole the game is no better, it has as many faults but they are just different. now diablo was a great game, but released today it wouldnt get highly rated by anyone. too many of the mechanics of d3 are straight out of D2, theres no progress in the series, i dont feel like its a superior product. you could forgive d2 at the time because in a way we didnt know any better, and obviously the limitations of technology. but now that computers and gaming in general have progressed so far some of those mechanics are simply painful. obviously thats just my opinion but i think that a decent proportion of D3's faults come from that fact that although the games were released over a decade a part, there wasnt a decade of improvement and innovation there. its a game from 2004 released in 2012. its a similar gripe many people had with the latest duke nukem, by sticking so closely to the original, but taking over a decade to get it out, the game just feels stale and outdated, because the world has moved on, but the game hasnt.
I thought people hated duke nukem because it resembled modern shooters too much and (apart from comedic elements) duke nukem too little? 2 guns at a time/short game etc.
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On August 16 2013 03:29 Jisall wrote:Show nested quote +On August 16 2013 03:26 dAPhREAk wrote:On August 16 2013 03:08 Jisall wrote:
The problem with diablo was that they dumbed down the skill builds.
In diablo 2 you had to plan out carefully your skill builds, in D3 there is no mechanic like that.
You build one of each class, instead of one of each class build, then they added paragon levels which only encourages people to build 1 of each class. Totally went the wrong way. you say dumbed down, i say removed the bullshit that wasn't fun anyways. You and I have two different versions of fun, I got that OCD, so optimizing builds and gear, breaking the game, etc. is fun to me. Literally nobody got level 99, and if you did that was fucking awesome, since you optimize your damage, but it was fucking rediculous to get to 99. Plus if you were playing more then one character you didn't have time to 99 them all. Also multiplayer games had like 8 party members compared to 4 now. More people competing for the same items was fun.
kind of my point. people find different things fun to do. i have never liked the plan everything out beforehand and then implement kind of play, and i always hated that you have to rebuild a character from scratch to try out different builds. i prefer the new system where you can easily tweak your skills, test them out with real play and then modify them as appropriate. as for customizing where to put your char points (str, dex, int, vit), at first i didnt like that they chose it for me, but then later thought it really didnt matter especially since most char points come from the gear anyways.
to each their own. i like the "dumbed down version" better, but i understand that others prefer the other way.
edit: just saw your last statement. no, that was not fun. my brother (hardcore player) had all his little hacks and pick-up programs running, and he stole everything. that was probably the stupidest fucking part of d2/d1. i really love the fact that each player gets their own drops.
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On August 16 2013 03:36 TheRabidDeer wrote:Show nested quote +On August 16 2013 03:32 turdburgler wrote:On August 16 2013 03:26 dAPhREAk wrote:On August 16 2013 03:08 Jisall wrote:
The problem with diablo was that they dumbed down the skill builds.
In diablo 2 you had to plan out carefully your skill builds, in D3 there is no mechanic like that.
You build one of each class, instead of one of each class build, then they added paragon levels which only encourages people to build 1 of each class. Totally went the wrong way. you say dumbed down, i say removed the bullshit that wasn't fun anyways. but i dont think those are mutually exclusive goals. i personally dont buy the dumb down argument, for all its faults and whatnot diablo (at least for me) doesnt derive its fun from obscuring how the game works. i agree they removed a lot of crap that actually wasnt fun, but at the same time they ended up creating more stuff that was unfun in the process. so on the whole the game is no better, it has as many faults but they are just different. now diablo was a great game, but released today it wouldnt get highly rated by anyone. too many of the mechanics of d3 are straight out of D2, theres no progress in the series, i dont feel like its a superior product. you could forgive d2 at the time because in a way we didnt know any better, and obviously the limitations of technology. but now that computers and gaming in general have progressed so far some of those mechanics are simply painful. obviously thats just my opinion but i think that a decent proportion of D3's faults come from that fact that although the games were released over a decade a part, there wasnt a decade of improvement and innovation there. its a game from 2004 released in 2012. its a similar gripe many people had with the latest duke nukem, by sticking so closely to the original, but taking over a decade to get it out, the game just feels stale and outdated, because the world has moved on, but the game hasnt. I thought people hated duke nukem because it resembled modern shooters too much and (apart from comedic elements) duke nukem too little? 2 guns at a time/short game etc.
This is very accurate. Duke Nukem Forever was much closer to the modern military shooter (cod/bf/what have you) than it was to DN3D or indeed any of the big 90s shooters.
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tedious is one way to put it...thing is, look at lego. people who have long time ago reached the age where playing with lego isnt really that fascinating anymore can still have hours of fun building up their own lego worlds. for those, its not tedious, its the main attraction of the whole thing. other people spend countless hours working on some oldtimer car that actually never sees a street. the whole planning like this is what makes other hack n slays actually appealing to a wide array of the playerbase. d3 pretty much gives you some prebuild fancy legoship with the newest action figures and whatnot, but unfortunately thats not what a lot of people wanted. others did, so there you have why opinions are split
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On August 16 2013 03:36 TheRabidDeer wrote:Show nested quote +On August 16 2013 03:32 turdburgler wrote:On August 16 2013 03:26 dAPhREAk wrote:On August 16 2013 03:08 Jisall wrote:
The problem with diablo was that they dumbed down the skill builds.
In diablo 2 you had to plan out carefully your skill builds, in D3 there is no mechanic like that.
You build one of each class, instead of one of each class build, then they added paragon levels which only encourages people to build 1 of each class. Totally went the wrong way. you say dumbed down, i say removed the bullshit that wasn't fun anyways. but i dont think those are mutually exclusive goals. i personally dont buy the dumb down argument, for all its faults and whatnot diablo (at least for me) doesnt derive its fun from obscuring how the game works. i agree they removed a lot of crap that actually wasnt fun, but at the same time they ended up creating more stuff that was unfun in the process. so on the whole the game is no better, it has as many faults but they are just different. now diablo was a great game, but released today it wouldnt get highly rated by anyone. too many of the mechanics of d3 are straight out of D2, theres no progress in the series, i dont feel like its a superior product. you could forgive d2 at the time because in a way we didnt know any better, and obviously the limitations of technology. but now that computers and gaming in general have progressed so far some of those mechanics are simply painful. obviously thats just my opinion but i think that a decent proportion of D3's faults come from that fact that although the games were released over a decade a part, there wasnt a decade of improvement and innovation there. its a game from 2004 released in 2012. its a similar gripe many people had with the latest duke nukem, by sticking so closely to the original, but taking over a decade to get it out, the game just feels stale and outdated, because the world has moved on, but the game hasnt. I thought people hated duke nukem because it resembled modern shooters too much and (apart from comedic elements) duke nukem too little? 2 guns at a time/short game etc.
most people also found the whole sexist joking thing stale and sad. which was the one part of the game that set it apart from others.
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On August 16 2013 03:37 dAPhREAk wrote:Show nested quote +On August 16 2013 03:29 Jisall wrote:On August 16 2013 03:26 dAPhREAk wrote:On August 16 2013 03:08 Jisall wrote:
The problem with diablo was that they dumbed down the skill builds.
In diablo 2 you had to plan out carefully your skill builds, in D3 there is no mechanic like that.
You build one of each class, instead of one of each class build, then they added paragon levels which only encourages people to build 1 of each class. Totally went the wrong way. you say dumbed down, i say removed the bullshit that wasn't fun anyways. You and I have two different versions of fun, I got that OCD, so optimizing builds and gear, breaking the game, etc. is fun to me. Literally nobody got level 99, and if you did that was fucking awesome, since you optimize your damage, but it was fucking rediculous to get to 99. Plus if you were playing more then one character you didn't have time to 99 them all. Also multiplayer games had like 8 party members compared to 4 now. More people competing for the same items was fun. kind of my point. people find different things fun to do. i have never liked the plan everything out beforehand and then implement kind of play, and i always hated that you have to rebuild a character from scratch to try out different builds. i prefer the new system where you can easily tweak your skills, test them out with real play and then modify them as appropriate. as for customizing where to put your char points (str, dex, int, vit), at first i didnt like that they chose it for me, but then later thought it really didnt matter especially since most char points come from the gear anyways. to each their own. i like the "dumbed down version" better, but i understand that others prefer the other way.
If they make a pseudo necromancer from d2 for the expansion I will prolly try it out.
40 skeleton army Necro was so badass.
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On August 16 2013 03:40 Jisall wrote:Show nested quote +On August 16 2013 03:37 dAPhREAk wrote:On August 16 2013 03:29 Jisall wrote:On August 16 2013 03:26 dAPhREAk wrote:On August 16 2013 03:08 Jisall wrote:
The problem with diablo was that they dumbed down the skill builds.
In diablo 2 you had to plan out carefully your skill builds, in D3 there is no mechanic like that.
You build one of each class, instead of one of each class build, then they added paragon levels which only encourages people to build 1 of each class. Totally went the wrong way. you say dumbed down, i say removed the bullshit that wasn't fun anyways. You and I have two different versions of fun, I got that OCD, so optimizing builds and gear, breaking the game, etc. is fun to me. Literally nobody got level 99, and if you did that was fucking awesome, since you optimize your damage, but it was fucking rediculous to get to 99. Plus if you were playing more then one character you didn't have time to 99 them all. Also multiplayer games had like 8 party members compared to 4 now. More people competing for the same items was fun. kind of my point. people find different things fun to do. i have never liked the plan everything out beforehand and then implement kind of play, and i always hated that you have to rebuild a character from scratch to try out different builds. i prefer the new system where you can easily tweak your skills, test them out with real play and then modify them as appropriate. as for customizing where to put your char points (str, dex, int, vit), at first i didnt like that they chose it for me, but then later thought it really didnt matter especially since most char points come from the gear anyways. to each their own. i like the "dumbed down version" better, but i understand that others prefer the other way. If they make a pseudo necromancer from d2 for the expansion I will prolly try it out. 40 skeleton army Necro was so badass.
now that i can afford a good computer, yes!!!
previously, god, the lag..... and when a boss died and dropped loot, my asshole brother (who turned off animations, which i didnt know how to do) stole all the shit.
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On August 16 2013 03:38 whoso wrote:
tedious is one way to put it...thing is, look at lego. people who have long time ago reached the age where playing with lego isnt really that fascinating anymore can still have hours of fun building up their own lego worlds. for those, its not tedious, its the main attraction of the whole thing. other people spend countless hours working on some oldtimer car that actually never sees a street. the whole planning like this is what makes other hack n slays actually appealing to a wide array of the playerbase. d3 pretty much gives you some prebuild fancy legoship with the newest action figures and whatnot, but unfortunately thats not what a lot of people wanted. others did, so there you have why opinions are split
While interesting, its not entirely true.
When you build with lego's, you use creativity to come up with something DIFFERENT each time. You get bored of building a square house quickly as it is the same element every time. This house is the equivalent of character stats. Every time it is the same thing, so they took it out.
The rest of the planning is still there, you just dont have to make a hacked 99 singleplayer character to try it out.
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If you bought Diablo 3 and treated it as an action game with items, you probably had great fun beating it and will forget it soon enough.
If you bought it expecting an action RPG and further expected it to be burned into your memory forevermore (which is what happened with Diablo I and Diablo II) well, tough luck, this ain't it.
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Not gonna argue too hard, but for those who say that D2 wouldn't be popular if it were released right now (instead of 10 years ago), I refer you to the example of Dota. Dota 1 was popular, massively so, especially from around 2007 onwards. That was the same time the game started stabilizing and the patches became patches (and not gamebreaking expansions). Of course, using the WC3/TFT engine, the graphics began to get outdated, the engine limitations began to surface, but it was still a great game and retained a huge following.
Now when Dota 2 (as a standalone game developed by Valve) was announced, I was highly skeptical (unlike Diablo 3 and Starcraft 2, which made me incredibly ecstatic). I felt that it would ruin the beauty of Dota 1. Boy was I wrong. What Valve (with Icefrog) did was to actually LISTEN to the clamor of its massive audience and keep Dota 1 basically intact. They did, however, update the graphics, add spectator and player-friendly devices both major and minor, and make the game very esport friendly. They knew that they stood on the shoulder of a giant (Dota 1) and simply piled on stuff to make it taller and bigger instead of breaking its knees and rebuilding.
But the second option of breaking knees and rebuilding... that's what I felt Blizz did with D3 and SC2. It wanted the games to be something that retained the nostalgia of the old game, but played out in a way completely new. Arguably with mixed success. SC2 is now far more successful and popular internationally than BW ever was, but in return Blizzard somehow screwed up the Korean scene (and to many BW fans' hearts, the game itself). D3 however... I don't hear many good things said about it, and that's just sad because the Diablo franchise was really amazing. It's as if Blizz banked on D3 as its brand new brainchild and it somewhat just fell flat, instead of trying to present it as an amped up, souped up D2 (which ages very well to be honest - it would NOT be obsolete even by today's standards except in respect of the graphics).
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Latest news: You will have to purchase a special app for your mobile to be able to receive that announcement.
Only 3$ and you will get the next 2 announcements free of charge.
Also you get a cool new ingame hat for the next big Blizzard title.
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On August 16 2013 03:42 dAPhREAk wrote:Show nested quote +On August 16 2013 03:40 Jisall wrote:On August 16 2013 03:37 dAPhREAk wrote:On August 16 2013 03:29 Jisall wrote:On August 16 2013 03:26 dAPhREAk wrote:On August 16 2013 03:08 Jisall wrote:
The problem with diablo was that they dumbed down the skill builds.
In diablo 2 you had to plan out carefully your skill builds, in D3 there is no mechanic like that.
You build one of each class, instead of one of each class build, then they added paragon levels which only encourages people to build 1 of each class. Totally went the wrong way. you say dumbed down, i say removed the bullshit that wasn't fun anyways. You and I have two different versions of fun, I got that OCD, so optimizing builds and gear, breaking the game, etc. is fun to me. Literally nobody got level 99, and if you did that was fucking awesome, since you optimize your damage, but it was fucking rediculous to get to 99. Plus if you were playing more then one character you didn't have time to 99 them all. Also multiplayer games had like 8 party members compared to 4 now. More people competing for the same items was fun. kind of my point. people find different things fun to do. i have never liked the plan everything out beforehand and then implement kind of play, and i always hated that you have to rebuild a character from scratch to try out different builds. i prefer the new system where you can easily tweak your skills, test them out with real play and then modify them as appropriate. as for customizing where to put your char points (str, dex, int, vit), at first i didnt like that they chose it for me, but then later thought it really didnt matter especially since most char points come from the gear anyways. to each their own. i like the "dumbed down version" better, but i understand that others prefer the other way. If they make a pseudo necromancer from d2 for the expansion I will prolly try it out. 40 skeleton army Necro was so badass. now that i can afford a good computer, yes!!! previously, god, the lag..... and when a boss died and dropped loot, my asshole brother (who turned off animations, which i didnt know how to do) stole all the shit.
Lmao the glitches were funny, Skele's got stuck on a wall, and just die when you run to far lol.
I would always get stuck in act 4 normal soloing the game. Before that everything was super ez.
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EPT
