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On June 22 2012 03:33 Heh_ wrote:Show nested quote +On June 22 2012 03:22 myBattleship wrote:On June 22 2012 03:07 Heh_ wrote:On June 22 2012 03:02 crms wrote:what is really your point of posting this dated article over and over again? inferno has changed quite a bit from Jay Wilson's original projection. I mean, it's already seen major nerfs in difficulty and farmability (made up word, what's up!) Because they're arguing about why you don't gain levels in Inferno. Some people would rather think up grand elaborate conspiracy theories instead of simple fact checking. I refuted a point, and showed evidence to back up my claims. Nobody is arguing about the absence of leveling in inferno. We are arguing about the lack of motivation/things to look forward to in inferno. It's rather pointless but none the less offers the best loot and the hardest bosses. The only 2 reasons to finish inferno. Diablo2 gave you more reasons, simple as that. From your post, the three motivating factors are leveling, loot and bosses, of which only leveling is different from engame D2 and D3. Leveling in D2 is painfully slow at the highest levels, compounded with the fact that you lose exp upon death. How many people reached lvl99 without botting or utilizing the shadow economy? Not me, I gave up at lvl92 because it was a waste of time, better spent playing other classes. If you want to talk about motivation, Hell D2 was incredibly demotivating. It's not fun seeing elites (sometimes normal mobs) with immunities to every kind of damage that you can dish out. And people HAVE been arguing about leveling. Show nested quote +On June 21 2012 23:42 Ricjames wrote:
BTW all they needed to do are the following:
1) redefine difficulty levels and make max. char level 99
2) remove freakin cooldown from potions and make potions expensive
3) make bosses drop better loot and make them twice as hard
4) optional but not possible - remove RMAH
Then we would have Diablo game instead of some crappy wow hybrid.
well you have to understand that inferno is killing the same bosses for the 4th time. I doubt anyone is going "oh boy I get to kill diablo AGAIN". And the motivation to kill harder bosses is there because you know the harder the are the better loot they might drop which is true for the entire difficulty setting. inferno drops are better than hell and so on. Loot is a big player here, however loot in d3 is garbage, everyone knows that. And to get back to leveling, yeah it's sure as hell is a big motivator because you're doing it while farming. And guess what, you get skill points and stat points for leveling, which is sadly missing from d3. You said yourself that you leveled to 92, but it's still better than just being stuck at 60. There is nothing to look forward to after you've beaten the game. The items are not exciting, the leveling isnt there, and to get anything good from bosses you have to go hunting stupid elite packs.
Now let me state again, I don't want d3 to be a carbon copy of d2, no. And you're right about monsters with immunities, they were frustrating. But how about they take good stuff and keep it and fix the bad stuff, replace it with something new and shiny and also GOOD. they didn't do it in this game. Thats the whole freaking point. Most of the new stuff, just replaces old stuff thats bad, but the new stuff is just as bad if not worse. I know they took a huge risk with the simplified skill system but guess what, it didn't pay off. And I cant praise them for that.
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I think it can all be simplified in the game is getting less and less fun ....
wonder if pvp will damage equips =P
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On June 22 2012 03:47 myBattleship wrote:Show nested quote +On June 22 2012 03:33 Heh_ wrote:On June 22 2012 03:22 myBattleship wrote:On June 22 2012 03:07 Heh_ wrote:On June 22 2012 03:02 crms wrote:what is really your point of posting this dated article over and over again? inferno has changed quite a bit from Jay Wilson's original projection. I mean, it's already seen major nerfs in difficulty and farmability (made up word, what's up!) Because they're arguing about why you don't gain levels in Inferno. Some people would rather think up grand elaborate conspiracy theories instead of simple fact checking. I refuted a point, and showed evidence to back up my claims. Nobody is arguing about the absence of leveling in inferno. We are arguing about the lack of motivation/things to look forward to in inferno. It's rather pointless but none the less offers the best loot and the hardest bosses. The only 2 reasons to finish inferno. Diablo2 gave you more reasons, simple as that. From your post, the three motivating factors are leveling, loot and bosses, of which only leveling is different from engame D2 and D3. Leveling in D2 is painfully slow at the highest levels, compounded with the fact that you lose exp upon death. How many people reached lvl99 without botting or utilizing the shadow economy? Not me, I gave up at lvl92 because it was a waste of time, better spent playing other classes. If you want to talk about motivation, Hell D2 was incredibly demotivating. It's not fun seeing elites (sometimes normal mobs) with immunities to every kind of damage that you can dish out. And people HAVE been arguing about leveling. On June 21 2012 23:42 Ricjames wrote:
BTW all they needed to do are the following:
1) redefine difficulty levels and make max. char level 99
2) remove freakin cooldown from potions and make potions expensive
3) make bosses drop better loot and make them twice as hard
4) optional but not possible - remove RMAH
Then we would have Diablo game instead of some crappy wow hybrid.
well you have to understand that inferno is killing the same bosses for the 4th time. I doubt anyone is going "oh boy I get to kill diablo AGAIN". And the motivation to kill harder bosses is there because you know the harder the are the better loot they might drop which is true for the entire difficulty setting. inferno drops are better than hell and so on. Loot is a big player here, however loot in d3 is garbage, everyone knows that. And to get back to leveling, yeah it's sure as hell is a big motivator because you're doing it while farming. And guess what, you get skill points and stat points for leveling, which is sadly missing from d3. You said yourself that you leveled to 92, but it's still better than just being stuck at 60. There is nothing to look forward to after you've beaten the game. The items are not exciting, the leveling isnt there, and to get anything good from bosses you have to go hunting stupid elite packs. Now let me state again, I don't want d3 to be a carbon copy of d2, no. And you're right about monsters with immunities, they were frustrating. But how about they take good stuff and keep it and fix the bad stuff, replace it with something new and shiny and also GOOD. they didn't do it in this game. Thats the whole freaking point. Most of the new stuff, just replaces old stuff thats bad, but the new stuff is just as bad if not worse. I know they took a huge risk with the simplified skill system but guess what, it didn't pay off. And I cant praise them for that.
Well, you kill the same things over and over again when you're farming. If killing Diablo 4 times on 4 separate difficulties isn't a person's cup of tea, then farming warden/butcher, cyd/azmodan or whatever area available ain't gonna be enjoyable. Some people like to see loot drop.
As more and more people farm the crap out of Inferno, the market becomes saturated with tons of loot. Items that were selling for millions in the first week may be selling for 2000 now (especially gloves). The loot that you once considered "good" is now crap when compared to the 10000 better copies selling for bargain basement prices. Also, with decent loot cheaply available, you're gonna be able to upgrade your gear so rapidly that finding improvements through farming ain't gonna cut it anymore.
If Blizzard made the level cap 99 (plus Inferno entry level 99), the only difference is cosmetic. You still gain stats and skills with each level, they will just distribute over more levels. Currently, you gain levels at a pretty rapid rate, at least you don't get stuck on the same level for several hours (one of the main reasons for making more levels). Btw the stat/skill system in D2 is terribad, it's good they got rid of it.
I thought Blizzard made a long post about what they didn't like about D2 and how they improved it. They've also given updates on how these changes worked out.
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On June 22 2012 04:28 Heh_ wrote:Show nested quote +On June 22 2012 03:47 myBattleship wrote:On June 22 2012 03:33 Heh_ wrote:On June 22 2012 03:22 myBattleship wrote:On June 22 2012 03:07 Heh_ wrote:On June 22 2012 03:02 crms wrote:what is really your point of posting this dated article over and over again? inferno has changed quite a bit from Jay Wilson's original projection. I mean, it's already seen major nerfs in difficulty and farmability (made up word, what's up!) Because they're arguing about why you don't gain levels in Inferno. Some people would rather think up grand elaborate conspiracy theories instead of simple fact checking. I refuted a point, and showed evidence to back up my claims. Nobody is arguing about the absence of leveling in inferno. We are arguing about the lack of motivation/things to look forward to in inferno. It's rather pointless but none the less offers the best loot and the hardest bosses. The only 2 reasons to finish inferno. Diablo2 gave you more reasons, simple as that. From your post, the three motivating factors are leveling, loot and bosses, of which only leveling is different from engame D2 and D3. Leveling in D2 is painfully slow at the highest levels, compounded with the fact that you lose exp upon death. How many people reached lvl99 without botting or utilizing the shadow economy? Not me, I gave up at lvl92 because it was a waste of time, better spent playing other classes. If you want to talk about motivation, Hell D2 was incredibly demotivating. It's not fun seeing elites (sometimes normal mobs) with immunities to every kind of damage that you can dish out. And people HAVE been arguing about leveling. On June 21 2012 23:42 Ricjames wrote:
BTW all they needed to do are the following:
1) redefine difficulty levels and make max. char level 99
2) remove freakin cooldown from potions and make potions expensive
3) make bosses drop better loot and make them twice as hard
4) optional but not possible - remove RMAH
Then we would have Diablo game instead of some crappy wow hybrid.
well you have to understand that inferno is killing the same bosses for the 4th time. I doubt anyone is going "oh boy I get to kill diablo AGAIN". And the motivation to kill harder bosses is there because you know the harder the are the better loot they might drop which is true for the entire difficulty setting. inferno drops are better than hell and so on. Loot is a big player here, however loot in d3 is garbage, everyone knows that. And to get back to leveling, yeah it's sure as hell is a big motivator because you're doing it while farming. And guess what, you get skill points and stat points for leveling, which is sadly missing from d3. You said yourself that you leveled to 92, but it's still better than just being stuck at 60. There is nothing to look forward to after you've beaten the game. The items are not exciting, the leveling isnt there, and to get anything good from bosses you have to go hunting stupid elite packs. Now let me state again, I don't want d3 to be a carbon copy of d2, no. And you're right about monsters with immunities, they were frustrating. But how about they take good stuff and keep it and fix the bad stuff, replace it with something new and shiny and also GOOD. they didn't do it in this game. Thats the whole freaking point. Most of the new stuff, just replaces old stuff thats bad, but the new stuff is just as bad if not worse. I know they took a huge risk with the simplified skill system but guess what, it didn't pay off. And I cant praise them for that. Well, you kill the same things over and over again when you're farming. If killing Diablo 4 times on 4 separate difficulties isn't a person's cup of tea, then farming warden/butcher, cyd/azmodan or whatever area available ain't gonna be enjoyable. Some people like to see loot drop. As more and more people farm the crap out of Inferno, the market becomes saturated with tons of loot. Items that were selling for millions in the first week may be selling for 2000 now (especially gloves). The loot that you once considered "good" is now crap when compared to the 10000 better copies selling for bargain basement prices. Also, with decent loot cheaply available, you're gonna be able to upgrade your gear so rapidly that finding improvements through farming ain't gonna cut it anymore. If Blizzard made the level cap 99 (plus Inferno entry level 99), the only difference is cosmetic. You still gain stats and skills with each level, they will just distribute over more levels. Currently, you gain levels at a pretty rapid rate, at least you don't get stuck on the same level for several hours (one of the main reasons for making more levels). Btw the stat/skill system in D2 is terribad, it's good they got rid of it. I thought Blizzard made a long post about what they didn't like about D2 and how they improved it. They've also given updates on how these changes worked out.
Dude you just showed us in numerous post that you are exactly the noob targeted by blizzard when making diablo 3.
Only that you reached max. lvl 92 in D2 and you consider it as horrible is enough for me. That was actually the best thing that you played it for a year and still haven't reached the max. level. I reached the max. level in D3 in 2 days and the game felt more boring day by day since that. The whole conception of it is just wrong and does not feel like diablo.
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On June 22 2012 04:28 Heh_ wrote:Show nested quote +On June 22 2012 03:47 myBattleship wrote:On June 22 2012 03:33 Heh_ wrote:On June 22 2012 03:22 myBattleship wrote:On June 22 2012 03:07 Heh_ wrote:On June 22 2012 03:02 crms wrote:what is really your point of posting this dated article over and over again? inferno has changed quite a bit from Jay Wilson's original projection. I mean, it's already seen major nerfs in difficulty and farmability (made up word, what's up!) Because they're arguing about why you don't gain levels in Inferno. Some people would rather think up grand elaborate conspiracy theories instead of simple fact checking. I refuted a point, and showed evidence to back up my claims. Nobody is arguing about the absence of leveling in inferno. We are arguing about the lack of motivation/things to look forward to in inferno. It's rather pointless but none the less offers the best loot and the hardest bosses. The only 2 reasons to finish inferno. Diablo2 gave you more reasons, simple as that. From your post, the three motivating factors are leveling, loot and bosses, of which only leveling is different from engame D2 and D3. Leveling in D2 is painfully slow at the highest levels, compounded with the fact that you lose exp upon death. How many people reached lvl99 without botting or utilizing the shadow economy? Not me, I gave up at lvl92 because it was a waste of time, better spent playing other classes. If you want to talk about motivation, Hell D2 was incredibly demotivating. It's not fun seeing elites (sometimes normal mobs) with immunities to every kind of damage that you can dish out. And people HAVE been arguing about leveling. On June 21 2012 23:42 Ricjames wrote:
BTW all they needed to do are the following:
1) redefine difficulty levels and make max. char level 99
2) remove freakin cooldown from potions and make potions expensive
3) make bosses drop better loot and make them twice as hard
4) optional but not possible - remove RMAH
Then we would have Diablo game instead of some crappy wow hybrid.
well you have to understand that inferno is killing the same bosses for the 4th time. I doubt anyone is going "oh boy I get to kill diablo AGAIN". And the motivation to kill harder bosses is there because you know the harder the are the better loot they might drop which is true for the entire difficulty setting. inferno drops are better than hell and so on. Loot is a big player here, however loot in d3 is garbage, everyone knows that. And to get back to leveling, yeah it's sure as hell is a big motivator because you're doing it while farming. And guess what, you get skill points and stat points for leveling, which is sadly missing from d3. You said yourself that you leveled to 92, but it's still better than just being stuck at 60. There is nothing to look forward to after you've beaten the game. The items are not exciting, the leveling isnt there, and to get anything good from bosses you have to go hunting stupid elite packs. Now let me state again, I don't want d3 to be a carbon copy of d2, no. And you're right about monsters with immunities, they were frustrating. But how about they take good stuff and keep it and fix the bad stuff, replace it with something new and shiny and also GOOD. they didn't do it in this game. Thats the whole freaking point. Most of the new stuff, just replaces old stuff thats bad, but the new stuff is just as bad if not worse. I know they took a huge risk with the simplified skill system but guess what, it didn't pay off. And I cant praise them for that. Well, you kill the same things over and over again when you're farming. If killing Diablo 4 times on 4 separate difficulties isn't a person's cup of tea, then farming warden/butcher, cyd/azmodan or whatever area available ain't gonna be enjoyable. Some people like to see loot drop. As more and more people farm the crap out of Inferno, the market becomes saturated with tons of loot. Items that were selling for millions in the first week may be selling for 2000 now (especially gloves). The loot that you once considered "good" is now crap when compared to the 10000 better copies selling for bargain basement prices. Also, with decent loot cheaply available, you're gonna be able to upgrade your gear so rapidly that finding improvements through farming ain't gonna cut it anymore. If Blizzard made the level cap 99 (plus Inferno entry level 99), the only difference is cosmetic. You still gain stats and skills with each level, they will just distribute over more levels. Currently, you gain levels at a pretty rapid rate, at least you don't get stuck on the same level for several hours (one of the main reasons for making more levels). Btw the stat/skill system in D2 is terribad, it's good they got rid of it. I thought Blizzard made a long post about what they didn't like about D2 and how they improved it. They've also given updates on how these changes worked out.
Farming bosses is one thing but what I'm talking about is inferno as the last 4th difficulty level and the only thing it has going for is, the bosses are just harder. Why not let us level to 70 or 99 or whatever level during our inferno run. At least it would add something extra.
The auction house, I have no real problem with but it does have the diminishing return on the longevity of the game. I know in d2 you could buy items off some shady websites but they weren't supported by blizzard and while people possibly knew about them the vast majority didn't really use them. If you played single player properly you didn't even have the luxury of trading. Overall it just reduces the lifespan of the game because everything is already out there available for you to buy.
While the skill system wasn't amazing in d2 it was there for you to do whatever u want. You could make a full str barb or full dex zon. You could go 50/50, you could go max block, 50% or block from the gear. If someone wants to make a demonhunter with max str, let them do it. Even if it's not going to happen, the option of doing so is much better than no other options whatsoever. The new system doesn't improve anything, it only dumbs things down.
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Diablo 3 is missing a big part of its release.. PVP. So before you question the longevity of the game, think about what PVP can bring to the table. It will be out this summer, so hold your horses and hold your horns for a bit longer.
Even though this patch is suppose to make transitioning easier... all the good gear to do inferno act 3/4 still is unobtainable without AH. I have about 5mill worth of gear I got from act 2. Going to act 3 I have to invest 5mil into one piece of gear. I don't farm gold. I don't want to monitor the AH and try my luck at reselling. I just want to bash monsters and be able to use the gear I get from them at least 1/10 of the time. Blizzard needs to incorporate something so that you don't need to rely on the AH. Say, make a new set of gear that binds to your account. These items are rare. You can't trade away /sell on the auction house, and can't repair,.. dropping these items would simply make it dissappear or only visible to you? Anyways, it would have the same functionality of a good buff, but can be permanent if you don't die and stuff.
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On June 22 2012 05:26 Lokian wrote:
Diablo 3 is missing a big part of its release.. PVP. So before you question the longevity of the game, think about what PVP can bring to the table. It will be out this summer, so hold your horses and hold your horns for a bit longer.
Even though this patch is suppose to make transitioning easier... all the good gear to do inferno act 3/4 still is unobtainable without AH. I have about 5mill worth of gear I got from act 2. Going to act 3 I have to invest 5mil into one piece of gear. I don't farm gold. I don't want to monitor the AH and try my luck at reselling. I just want to bash monsters and be able to use the gear I get from them at least 1/10 of the time. Blizzard needs to incorporate something so that you don't need to rely on the AH. Say, make a new set of gear that binds to your account. These items are rare. You can't trade away /sell on the auction house, and can't repair,.. dropping these items would simply make it dissappear or only visible to you?
Wtf? ilvl 63 drops in act 1 which means the gear is obtainable. If you don't want to grind and don't want to use the AH than just quit playing the game.
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On June 22 2012 03:16 myBattleship wrote:Show nested quote +On June 22 2012 02:54 willoc wrote:On June 22 2012 02:46 myBattleship wrote:On June 22 2012 01:48 andrewlt wrote:On June 22 2012 01:00 Ricjames wrote:On June 22 2012 00:43 Heh_ wrote:On June 22 2012 00:32 myBattleship wrote:On June 21 2012 23:48 Technique wrote:On June 21 2012 23:42 Ricjames wrote:
BTW all they needed to do are the following:
1) redefine difficulty levels and make max. char level 99
2) remove freakin cooldown from potions and make potions expensive
3) make bosses drop better loot and make them twice as hard
4) optional but not possible - remove RMAH
Then we would have Diablo game instead of some crappy wow hybrid.
1) Lvl 60 is much better, no unfair level advantage in pvp (well maybe not ''unfair'', but who really takes the time to lvl to 99 or even close to that?). 2) Much better with cool down, so you can't just smash the lol full hp button everytime you got yourself in a hard spot. 3) They obviously don't want people to kill 1 boss, leave game and make the next 1. 4) What's wrong with rmah? Personally i stopped using paypal long ago for obvious reasons, but i can still use it as a better ingame currency than gold and perhaps buy some blizz games with it (hopefully hots). There are a few things you clearly don't understand here. And in diablo2 they were resolved, maybe the developers got lucky or maybe they planned it from the start but here's the deal: 1) Let me just say right away, there is no pvp in d3 so your point is already invalid but for the sake of it. Previous instalments had pvp but it was never the focus of the game. You could declare hostility versus a players above lvl 9, so it was never balanced. And blizzard said, they don't want to balance pvp so, what's the point here exactly? On top of that, the main reason why lvl 60 is horrible is because once you're at max level, you have nothing else to do. You can only try and beat the game on hardest difficulty. Okay. You can farm for gear... but why would you? In diablo 2, if you played without rushing, there is no way you could have reached 99 by the end of Hell, specifically in vanilla d2. So in the end you still had some levels ahead of you that you would just get by farming gear. Those levels gave you more stat points and more skill points and you had some higher level gear that you couldn't equip yet until you leveled up. In d3, there is none of that. You just have inferno to beat but there is really nothing to motivate you to do it, combine that with god awful item design and overall loot drop system and you really start having second thoughts. You mention, why would anyone level all the way to 99? Well, you don't have to go all the way up there but it's nice to have something else to look for after you've beaten the game, don't you think? 2) So now, instead of potion spam we have people either chain-ressing each other or just kiting elites to the checkpoint where you can res and get back in the fight immediatly. There is really nothing wrong with potion spam, because it replaces skills that give u regen or healing skills. And now you have more options: Either go with no-regen items and just chug the potions or get some regen and use that as your crutch or just put some defensive healing/lifegaining skills on your bar. Besides, the potions in d3 don't even heal 50% of your hp, in some cases that don't even heal 25%. 3) Bosses drop nothing useful if you don't have valor stacks. So now you HAVE to go out there and kill 5 elite packs before you get to do your boss. It feels like a chore not like a game. If bosses dropped good loot but then elite packs would make that loot even better, yeah I can see how people would go out of their way to hunt down mobs. And besides, what's wrong with killing the same boss over and over? Gaming is very repetitive, in starcraft you have your openings and builds that you refine and you do them over and over again... Why can't I find a way to kill diablo fast and just do that? They have these random events in the world, well how about spawning some rare bosses during those events that drop cool loot. That would encourage players to go out there and do them. 4) There is nothing wrong with rmah, I agree on this one. In d2 you could go online and buy items, no problem. rmah is just an easier ans safer way of doing so. The only problem with rmah in d3, and it's not so much the AH itself but it's that bland, uninspired, boring itemisation in the game. No item feels unique. And partially the reason for that is the whole stats-on-items system that they have gone with. That's for another discussion though  Seems like you don't understand. 1) PvP is scheduled to come out in a later patch, and they'll balance it then. PvE is their first priority. Inferno was designed to be an optional difficulty level, for players who completed the game on hell and reached level 60 and "want something more". If you think the item design of D3 is god-awful, think about the design of D2. Not much better, in fact much more terrible. 2) Have fun chain-ressing with the increased repair costs. It was an unintended exploit, and thus it got nerfed. Potion spam is just plain retarded. Now, you actually have to play cautiously and carefully consider potion usage instead of facetanking everything. Although I will agree that a higher level potion should exist, and maybe the cooldown should be reduced to 15-20s. 3) Blizzard specifically didn't want people to do endless boss runs. That's why in patch 1.03, it's equally profitable to kill a boss or an elite, although some bosses are easier to kill because their mechanics are predictable and they don't have crazy affixes. 4) AH and RMAH is good in the sense that item trading is incorporated within the game, and you don't have to visit shady websites. I don't see why you're complaining about "no item feels unique" when D2 was a total fail in that regard. Thank you for some support MyBattleship. He clearly doesn't get it, that's fine. All i want to say that this is hack and slash game, not hack run run run run slash game. I feel like playing wow despite i have never tried it.Inferno being a bonus for people that finished the game on HELL - you have to be kidding me, right? Until inferno the game is a tutorial to try out what skill choices you have and the real game starts on inferno. Unfortunately it also ends right where it started, because you have already reached max. level. Stop making up bullshit about WoW, then. I have a subscription to it from day 1 of release and current D3 doesn't play like WoW at all. In fact, it's not even remotely close. You guys sound like a bunch of teenagers just hating on the cool thing to hate without really knowing anything about it. On June 22 2012 01:48 andrewlt wrote:On June 22 2012 01:00 Ricjames wrote:On June 22 2012 00:43 Heh_ wrote:On June 22 2012 00:32 myBattleship wrote:On June 21 2012 23:48 Technique wrote:On June 21 2012 23:42 Ricjames wrote:
BTW all they needed to do are the following:
1) redefine difficulty levels and make max. char level 99
2) remove freakin cooldown from potions and make potions expensive
3) make bosses drop better loot and make them twice as hard
4) optional but not possible - remove RMAH
Then we would have Diablo game instead of some crappy wow hybrid.
1) Lvl 60 is much better, no unfair level advantage in pvp (well maybe not ''unfair'', but who really takes the time to lvl to 99 or even close to that?). 2) Much better with cool down, so you can't just smash the lol full hp button everytime you got yourself in a hard spot. 3) They obviously don't want people to kill 1 boss, leave game and make the next 1. 4) What's wrong with rmah? Personally i stopped using paypal long ago for obvious reasons, but i can still use it as a better ingame currency than gold and perhaps buy some blizz games with it (hopefully hots). There are a few things you clearly don't understand here. And in diablo2 they were resolved, maybe the developers got lucky or maybe they planned it from the start but here's the deal: 1) Let me just say right away, there is no pvp in d3 so your point is already invalid but for the sake of it. Previous instalments had pvp but it was never the focus of the game. You could declare hostility versus a players above lvl 9, so it was never balanced. And blizzard said, they don't want to balance pvp so, what's the point here exactly? On top of that, the main reason why lvl 60 is horrible is because once you're at max level, you have nothing else to do. You can only try and beat the game on hardest difficulty. Okay. You can farm for gear... but why would you? In diablo 2, if you played without rushing, there is no way you could have reached 99 by the end of Hell, specifically in vanilla d2. So in the end you still had some levels ahead of you that you would just get by farming gear. Those levels gave you more stat points and more skill points and you had some higher level gear that you couldn't equip yet until you leveled up. In d3, there is none of that. You just have inferno to beat but there is really nothing to motivate you to do it, combine that with god awful item design and overall loot drop system and you really start having second thoughts. You mention, why would anyone level all the way to 99? Well, you don't have to go all the way up there but it's nice to have something else to look for after you've beaten the game, don't you think? 2) So now, instead of potion spam we have people either chain-ressing each other or just kiting elites to the checkpoint where you can res and get back in the fight immediatly. There is really nothing wrong with potion spam, because it replaces skills that give u regen or healing skills. And now you have more options: Either go with no-regen items and just chug the potions or get some regen and use that as your crutch or just put some defensive healing/lifegaining skills on your bar. Besides, the potions in d3 don't even heal 50% of your hp, in some cases that don't even heal 25%. 3) Bosses drop nothing useful if you don't have valor stacks. So now you HAVE to go out there and kill 5 elite packs before you get to do your boss. It feels like a chore not like a game. If bosses dropped good loot but then elite packs would make that loot even better, yeah I can see how people would go out of their way to hunt down mobs. And besides, what's wrong with killing the same boss over and over? Gaming is very repetitive, in starcraft you have your openings and builds that you refine and you do them over and over again... Why can't I find a way to kill diablo fast and just do that? They have these random events in the world, well how about spawning some rare bosses during those events that drop cool loot. That would encourage players to go out there and do them. 4) There is nothing wrong with rmah, I agree on this one. In d2 you could go online and buy items, no problem. rmah is just an easier ans safer way of doing so. The only problem with rmah in d3, and it's not so much the AH itself but it's that bland, uninspired, boring itemisation in the game. No item feels unique. And partially the reason for that is the whole stats-on-items system that they have gone with. That's for another discussion though Seems like you don't understand. 1) PvP is scheduled to come out in a later patch, and they'll balance it then. PvE is their first priority. Inferno was designed to be an optional difficulty level, for players who completed the game on hell and reached level 60 and "want something more". If you think the item design of D3 is god-awful, think about the design of D2. Not much better, in fact much more terrible. 2) Have fun chain-ressing with the increased repair costs. It was an unintended exploit, and thus it got nerfed. Potion spam is just plain retarded. Now, you actually have to play cautiously and carefully consider potion usage instead of facetanking everything. Although I will agree that a higher level potion should exist, and maybe the cooldown should be reduced to 15-20s. 3) Blizzard specifically didn't want people to do endless boss runs. That's why in patch 1.03, it's equally profitable to kill a boss or an elite, although some bosses are easier to kill because their mechanics are predictable and they don't have crazy affixes. 4) AH and RMAH is good in the sense that item trading is incorporated within the game, and you don't have to visit shady websites. I don't see why you're complaining about "no item feels unique" when D2 was a total fail in that regard. Thank you for some support MyBattleship. He clearly doesn't get it, that's fine. All i want to say that this is hack and slash game, not hack run run run run slash game. I feel like playing wow despite i have never tried it.Inferno being a bonus for people that finished the game on HELL - you have to be kidding me, right? Until inferno the game is a tutorial to try out what skill choices you have and the real game starts on inferno. Unfortunately it also ends right where it started, because you have already reached max. level. Stop making up bullshit about WoW, then. I have a subscription to it from day 1 of release and current D3 doesn't play like WoW at all. In fact, it's not even remotely close. You guys sound like a bunch of teenagers just hating on the cool thing to hate without really knowing anything about it. I have played WoW for a long time and while I can confirm that WoW and d3 play differently there are some obvious similarities ranging from minor details to the philosophy behind certain decisions. A couple examples of minor details: - You can't just save & exit, unless you're in town. You have to wait for about 10 seconds before your game ends. In d2 you could save and exit anywhere in the world. Is this a big issue? Probably not, but it's what world of warcraft uses as a model. - You can't really put another skill on your skillbar midcombat or out there in the wilderness. In WoW you have to talk to your trainer to respec your character. You can only find trainers in town. In d3 you dont have to talk anyone but if you want your skills instantly available to u, you have to go to town. In d2 you could just hotkey a skill anywhere anytime. Obviously in d2 you couldn't completely change your skills (until very recently) but if you had all the skills available to you, you could hotkey them or swap them out anytime. - potions usage is exactly the same as in world of warcraft. Potions don't heal for a lot and they have a cooldown. Nothing like it was in d2. Again, is this a big issue? Maybe not, but did we really have to change it? I don't know. As far as some of the design decisions go: - in WoW, you don't really have a boss that you can just go and farm over and over again (yes it's an MMO with a reset timer I know). What I'm getting at here is, in Wow, unless you had a instance where there is just one boss and nothing else, you would have to go and clear trash up to the boss, possibly kill some minor bosses before getting to that last boss you want to kill for some good loot. In d3 you HAVE to go out and get valor stacks before killing a boss because otherwise he doesn't drop anything useful. Obviously it's not identical, but there are threads running through both of these designs, the goal here is to give people that 30min-1hour time (d3) and 1hour-3hours (wow) time frame to work within. A siegebreaker run on my mage takes about 20 to 30 minutes (solo). And my azmodan runs took me about 30 to 40 minutes (in group of 3 or 4). On inferno obviously. - level cap. I'm not referring to level 60 cap directly, I'm just saying that the real endgame (best loot, hardest encounters) start at max level cap. But why? Why can't we level in inferno? There is nothing to look forward to, because we have already killed all the bosses 3 times by this point. We have all the skills. You can say the gear is what drives you and also the desire to complete the game. However, the gear problem is there. lvl 60 gear has item levels and they reflect it's quality. So if you have a lvl 60 500dps bow it's useless because there is a lvl 60 1000 dps bow. If that 1000dps bow required your character to be level 65, that's a different story. - item progression: Like I mentioned in my previous point. item level reflects the quality of the item so unless an item has some specific properties, unique properties, you're just looking to upgrade the item level. Bracers with 50 int and lvl requirment 60 will get replaced by bracers that give you 100 int and require that same lvl 60. But what if the bracers with 50 int had some cool additional stat to go with them? D3 has a few, but only very few items like this. Lacuni prawlers (bracers) gave you attack speed and movement speed, regular rare bracers don'tspawn with these properties so you have a choice there. But there needs to be more of these items, especially on the weapons front. these are just a few points. There are obviously more but I think the ones I mentioned are pretty obvious. And I want to emphasize that I dont hate d3, I have close to 250 hours played on 3 different characters, 2 of which I have cleared inferno with. I've stopped playing and the main reason for that is there is nothing to do in inferno. Not to mention that the combat mechanics, target aquisition, monster AI, world persistence, character controls and numerous other things are completely different. Hey that's pretty cool. things you list, a lot of them were in diablo2 and they remained the same. great! But why did they borrow from WoW so many things that really had no place in a diablo game? Can you please explain to me? I don't think so. By the way, world persistence... Are you trying to tell me that a MMO is different from a single player game with multiplayer component? lol Come on now m8, please. You had to really scrape the bottom of the barrel to come up with these things.
Actually, I can tell you why. But first, please stop being so pig-headed (stubborn) and rude when discussing this.
In an interview they said that they were not trying to recreate diablo 2 or diablo 1. They were making a new game and wanted to change some things up that they thought could be done better (like potions, leveling, skill system, etc.). To sum it up: If you want to play diablo 2, go play diablo 2. Their intent was not to make diablo 2 version 2.
Will their ideas work? I think so but it's still to early to tell. By your comments I can basically tell you didn't play diablo 2 when it was first released as it basically sucked shit compared to what it was after a couple of patches, the expansion and then a couple more patches. Diablo 2, especially after normal difficulty, was ridiculously broken in terms of items and skills when it was first released and it didn't get fixed until months later.
On June 22 2012 03:16 myBattleship wrote:
By the way, world persistence... Are you trying to tell me that a MMO is different from a single player game with multiplayer component? lol
Come on now m8, please. You had to really scrape the bottom of the barrel to come up with these things.
You really think you can just intimidate or ridicule people into believing there is no difference between an instanced multi-player game and a massively multi-player online (MMO) game? There is quite a large difference. I recommend you educate yourself. Here are some quick tips though:
- multiplayer games have their worlds "destroyed" as soon as the game is quit, MMO 'states' are only "destroyed" during server maintenance.
- MMOs rely on monster spawning for their monster population. Multiplayer games create monsters on creation only (not always but for diablo this is the case).
- MMOs have to be hosted on a server but multi-player games can be hosted on a server or locally.
... I could keep going but I'd rather you just find some literature on the subject and find out for yourself.
So: Come on now m8, please.
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On June 22 2012 05:28 skyR wrote:Show nested quote +On June 22 2012 05:26 Lokian wrote:
Diablo 3 is missing a big part of its release.. PVP. So before you question the longevity of the game, think about what PVP can bring to the table. It will be out this summer, so hold your horses and hold your horns for a bit longer.
Even though this patch is suppose to make transitioning easier... all the good gear to do inferno act 3/4 still is unobtainable without AH. I have about 5mill worth of gear I got from act 2. Going to act 3 I have to invest 5mil into one piece of gear. I don't farm gold. I don't want to monitor the AH and try my luck at reselling. I just want to bash monsters and be able to use the gear I get from them at least 1/10 of the time. Blizzard needs to incorporate something so that you don't need to rely on the AH. Say, make a new set of gear that binds to your account. These items are rare. You can't trade away /sell on the auction house, and can't repair,.. dropping these items would simply make it dissappear or only visible to you? Wtf? ilvl 63 drops in act 1 which means the gear is obtainable. If you don't want to grind and don't want to use the AH than just quit playing the game.
I do grind, but in inferno, there's only one type of gear. vit/all resist, and certain extras. i've been farming act 2 and the drop rates are better and ilevel 63 items are there. but to get the right one the chances are slim. I don't know how many affixes are there, but the sheer variety makes it so its unobtainable. Sure, you get lucky with one piece, but you need five more. I don't use the AH very often, and this is the struggle of someone that doesn't.
btw, saying that i dont want to grind, were you referring to gold grinding? i dont think not wanting to gold farm is merit to telling someone to GTFO. calm down man. no ones taking your pizza away from you
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I personally like the AH. Today I was helping my brother in Act I Inferno and I got a 770dps 1h wand w/ 2500 Life after kill and 120% crit damage with socket. None of us could use it, but it was still a decent drop. I was able to sell it for 2M which I can now spend on relevant gear for my barbarian. What's so bad about that?
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On June 22 2012 05:31 willoc wrote:Show nested quote +On June 22 2012 03:16 myBattleship wrote:On June 22 2012 02:54 willoc wrote:On June 22 2012 02:46 myBattleship wrote:On June 22 2012 01:48 andrewlt wrote:On June 22 2012 01:00 Ricjames wrote:On June 22 2012 00:43 Heh_ wrote:On June 22 2012 00:32 myBattleship wrote:On June 21 2012 23:48 Technique wrote:On June 21 2012 23:42 Ricjames wrote:
BTW all they needed to do are the following:
1) redefine difficulty levels and make max. char level 99
2) remove freakin cooldown from potions and make potions expensive
3) make bosses drop better loot and make them twice as hard
4) optional but not possible - remove RMAH
Then we would have Diablo game instead of some crappy wow hybrid.
1) Lvl 60 is much better, no unfair level advantage in pvp (well maybe not ''unfair'', but who really takes the time to lvl to 99 or even close to that?). 2) Much better with cool down, so you can't just smash the lol full hp button everytime you got yourself in a hard spot. 3) They obviously don't want people to kill 1 boss, leave game and make the next 1. 4) What's wrong with rmah? Personally i stopped using paypal long ago for obvious reasons, but i can still use it as a better ingame currency than gold and perhaps buy some blizz games with it (hopefully hots). There are a few things you clearly don't understand here. And in diablo2 they were resolved, maybe the developers got lucky or maybe they planned it from the start but here's the deal: 1) Let me just say right away, there is no pvp in d3 so your point is already invalid but for the sake of it. Previous instalments had pvp but it was never the focus of the game. You could declare hostility versus a players above lvl 9, so it was never balanced. And blizzard said, they don't want to balance pvp so, what's the point here exactly? On top of that, the main reason why lvl 60 is horrible is because once you're at max level, you have nothing else to do. You can only try and beat the game on hardest difficulty. Okay. You can farm for gear... but why would you? In diablo 2, if you played without rushing, there is no way you could have reached 99 by the end of Hell, specifically in vanilla d2. So in the end you still had some levels ahead of you that you would just get by farming gear. Those levels gave you more stat points and more skill points and you had some higher level gear that you couldn't equip yet until you leveled up. In d3, there is none of that. You just have inferno to beat but there is really nothing to motivate you to do it, combine that with god awful item design and overall loot drop system and you really start having second thoughts. You mention, why would anyone level all the way to 99? Well, you don't have to go all the way up there but it's nice to have something else to look for after you've beaten the game, don't you think? 2) So now, instead of potion spam we have people either chain-ressing each other or just kiting elites to the checkpoint where you can res and get back in the fight immediatly. There is really nothing wrong with potion spam, because it replaces skills that give u regen or healing skills. And now you have more options: Either go with no-regen items and just chug the potions or get some regen and use that as your crutch or just put some defensive healing/lifegaining skills on your bar. Besides, the potions in d3 don't even heal 50% of your hp, in some cases that don't even heal 25%. 3) Bosses drop nothing useful if you don't have valor stacks. So now you HAVE to go out there and kill 5 elite packs before you get to do your boss. It feels like a chore not like a game. If bosses dropped good loot but then elite packs would make that loot even better, yeah I can see how people would go out of their way to hunt down mobs. And besides, what's wrong with killing the same boss over and over? Gaming is very repetitive, in starcraft you have your openings and builds that you refine and you do them over and over again... Why can't I find a way to kill diablo fast and just do that? They have these random events in the world, well how about spawning some rare bosses during those events that drop cool loot. That would encourage players to go out there and do them. 4) There is nothing wrong with rmah, I agree on this one. In d2 you could go online and buy items, no problem. rmah is just an easier ans safer way of doing so. The only problem with rmah in d3, and it's not so much the AH itself but it's that bland, uninspired, boring itemisation in the game. No item feels unique. And partially the reason for that is the whole stats-on-items system that they have gone with. That's for another discussion though Seems like you don't understand. 1) PvP is scheduled to come out in a later patch, and they'll balance it then. PvE is their first priority. Inferno was designed to be an optional difficulty level, for players who completed the game on hell and reached level 60 and "want something more". If you think the item design of D3 is god-awful, think about the design of D2. Not much better, in fact much more terrible. 2) Have fun chain-ressing with the increased repair costs. It was an unintended exploit, and thus it got nerfed. Potion spam is just plain retarded. Now, you actually have to play cautiously and carefully consider potion usage instead of facetanking everything. Although I will agree that a higher level potion should exist, and maybe the cooldown should be reduced to 15-20s. 3) Blizzard specifically didn't want people to do endless boss runs. That's why in patch 1.03, it's equally profitable to kill a boss or an elite, although some bosses are easier to kill because their mechanics are predictable and they don't have crazy affixes. 4) AH and RMAH is good in the sense that item trading is incorporated within the game, and you don't have to visit shady websites. I don't see why you're complaining about "no item feels unique" when D2 was a total fail in that regard. Thank you for some support MyBattleship. He clearly doesn't get it, that's fine. All i want to say that this is hack and slash game, not hack run run run run slash game. I feel like playing wow despite i have never tried it.Inferno being a bonus for people that finished the game on HELL - you have to be kidding me, right? Until inferno the game is a tutorial to try out what skill choices you have and the real game starts on inferno. Unfortunately it also ends right where it started, because you have already reached max. level. Stop making up bullshit about WoW, then. I have a subscription to it from day 1 of release and current D3 doesn't play like WoW at all. In fact, it's not even remotely close. You guys sound like a bunch of teenagers just hating on the cool thing to hate without really knowing anything about it. On June 22 2012 01:48 andrewlt wrote:On June 22 2012 01:00 Ricjames wrote:On June 22 2012 00:43 Heh_ wrote:On June 22 2012 00:32 myBattleship wrote:On June 21 2012 23:48 Technique wrote:On June 21 2012 23:42 Ricjames wrote:
BTW all they needed to do are the following:
1) redefine difficulty levels and make max. char level 99
2) remove freakin cooldown from potions and make potions expensive
3) make bosses drop better loot and make them twice as hard
4) optional but not possible - remove RMAH
Then we would have Diablo game instead of some crappy wow hybrid.
1) Lvl 60 is much better, no unfair level advantage in pvp (well maybe not ''unfair'', but who really takes the time to lvl to 99 or even close to that?). 2) Much better with cool down, so you can't just smash the lol full hp button everytime you got yourself in a hard spot. 3) They obviously don't want people to kill 1 boss, leave game and make the next 1. 4) What's wrong with rmah? Personally i stopped using paypal long ago for obvious reasons, but i can still use it as a better ingame currency than gold and perhaps buy some blizz games with it (hopefully hots). There are a few things you clearly don't understand here. And in diablo2 they were resolved, maybe the developers got lucky or maybe they planned it from the start but here's the deal: 1) Let me just say right away, there is no pvp in d3 so your point is already invalid but for the sake of it. Previous instalments had pvp but it was never the focus of the game. You could declare hostility versus a players above lvl 9, so it was never balanced. And blizzard said, they don't want to balance pvp so, what's the point here exactly? On top of that, the main reason why lvl 60 is horrible is because once you're at max level, you have nothing else to do. You can only try and beat the game on hardest difficulty. Okay. You can farm for gear... but why would you? In diablo 2, if you played without rushing, there is no way you could have reached 99 by the end of Hell, specifically in vanilla d2. So in the end you still had some levels ahead of you that you would just get by farming gear. Those levels gave you more stat points and more skill points and you had some higher level gear that you couldn't equip yet until you leveled up. In d3, there is none of that. You just have inferno to beat but there is really nothing to motivate you to do it, combine that with god awful item design and overall loot drop system and you really start having second thoughts. You mention, why would anyone level all the way to 99? Well, you don't have to go all the way up there but it's nice to have something else to look for after you've beaten the game, don't you think? 2) So now, instead of potion spam we have people either chain-ressing each other or just kiting elites to the checkpoint where you can res and get back in the fight immediatly. There is really nothing wrong with potion spam, because it replaces skills that give u regen or healing skills. And now you have more options: Either go with no-regen items and just chug the potions or get some regen and use that as your crutch or just put some defensive healing/lifegaining skills on your bar. Besides, the potions in d3 don't even heal 50% of your hp, in some cases that don't even heal 25%. 3) Bosses drop nothing useful if you don't have valor stacks. So now you HAVE to go out there and kill 5 elite packs before you get to do your boss. It feels like a chore not like a game. If bosses dropped good loot but then elite packs would make that loot even better, yeah I can see how people would go out of their way to hunt down mobs. And besides, what's wrong with killing the same boss over and over? Gaming is very repetitive, in starcraft you have your openings and builds that you refine and you do them over and over again... Why can't I find a way to kill diablo fast and just do that? They have these random events in the world, well how about spawning some rare bosses during those events that drop cool loot. That would encourage players to go out there and do them. 4) There is nothing wrong with rmah, I agree on this one. In d2 you could go online and buy items, no problem. rmah is just an easier ans safer way of doing so. The only problem with rmah in d3, and it's not so much the AH itself but it's that bland, uninspired, boring itemisation in the game. No item feels unique. And partially the reason for that is the whole stats-on-items system that they have gone with. That's for another discussion though Seems like you don't understand. 1) PvP is scheduled to come out in a later patch, and they'll balance it then. PvE is their first priority. Inferno was designed to be an optional difficulty level, for players who completed the game on hell and reached level 60 and "want something more". If you think the item design of D3 is god-awful, think about the design of D2. Not much better, in fact much more terrible. 2) Have fun chain-ressing with the increased repair costs. It was an unintended exploit, and thus it got nerfed. Potion spam is just plain retarded. Now, you actually have to play cautiously and carefully consider potion usage instead of facetanking everything. Although I will agree that a higher level potion should exist, and maybe the cooldown should be reduced to 15-20s. 3) Blizzard specifically didn't want people to do endless boss runs. That's why in patch 1.03, it's equally profitable to kill a boss or an elite, although some bosses are easier to kill because their mechanics are predictable and they don't have crazy affixes. 4) AH and RMAH is good in the sense that item trading is incorporated within the game, and you don't have to visit shady websites. I don't see why you're complaining about "no item feels unique" when D2 was a total fail in that regard. Thank you for some support MyBattleship. He clearly doesn't get it, that's fine. All i want to say that this is hack and slash game, not hack run run run run slash game. I feel like playing wow despite i have never tried it.Inferno being a bonus for people that finished the game on HELL - you have to be kidding me, right? Until inferno the game is a tutorial to try out what skill choices you have and the real game starts on inferno. Unfortunately it also ends right where it started, because you have already reached max. level. Stop making up bullshit about WoW, then. I have a subscription to it from day 1 of release and current D3 doesn't play like WoW at all. In fact, it's not even remotely close. You guys sound like a bunch of teenagers just hating on the cool thing to hate without really knowing anything about it. I have played WoW for a long time and while I can confirm that WoW and d3 play differently there are some obvious similarities ranging from minor details to the philosophy behind certain decisions. A couple examples of minor details: - You can't just save & exit, unless you're in town. You have to wait for about 10 seconds before your game ends. In d2 you could save and exit anywhere in the world. Is this a big issue? Probably not, but it's what world of warcraft uses as a model. - You can't really put another skill on your skillbar midcombat or out there in the wilderness. In WoW you have to talk to your trainer to respec your character. You can only find trainers in town. In d3 you dont have to talk anyone but if you want your skills instantly available to u, you have to go to town. In d2 you could just hotkey a skill anywhere anytime. Obviously in d2 you couldn't completely change your skills (until very recently) but if you had all the skills available to you, you could hotkey them or swap them out anytime. - potions usage is exactly the same as in world of warcraft. Potions don't heal for a lot and they have a cooldown. Nothing like it was in d2. Again, is this a big issue? Maybe not, but did we really have to change it? I don't know. As far as some of the design decisions go: - in WoW, you don't really have a boss that you can just go and farm over and over again (yes it's an MMO with a reset timer I know). What I'm getting at here is, in Wow, unless you had a instance where there is just one boss and nothing else, you would have to go and clear trash up to the boss, possibly kill some minor bosses before getting to that last boss you want to kill for some good loot. In d3 you HAVE to go out and get valor stacks before killing a boss because otherwise he doesn't drop anything useful. Obviously it's not identical, but there are threads running through both of these designs, the goal here is to give people that 30min-1hour time (d3) and 1hour-3hours (wow) time frame to work within. A siegebreaker run on my mage takes about 20 to 30 minutes (solo). And my azmodan runs took me about 30 to 40 minutes (in group of 3 or 4). On inferno obviously. - level cap. I'm not referring to level 60 cap directly, I'm just saying that the real endgame (best loot, hardest encounters) start at max level cap. But why? Why can't we level in inferno? There is nothing to look forward to, because we have already killed all the bosses 3 times by this point. We have all the skills. You can say the gear is what drives you and also the desire to complete the game. However, the gear problem is there. lvl 60 gear has item levels and they reflect it's quality. So if you have a lvl 60 500dps bow it's useless because there is a lvl 60 1000 dps bow. If that 1000dps bow required your character to be level 65, that's a different story. - item progression: Like I mentioned in my previous point. item level reflects the quality of the item so unless an item has some specific properties, unique properties, you're just looking to upgrade the item level. Bracers with 50 int and lvl requirment 60 will get replaced by bracers that give you 100 int and require that same lvl 60. But what if the bracers with 50 int had some cool additional stat to go with them? D3 has a few, but only very few items like this. Lacuni prawlers (bracers) gave you attack speed and movement speed, regular rare bracers don'tspawn with these properties so you have a choice there. But there needs to be more of these items, especially on the weapons front. these are just a few points. There are obviously more but I think the ones I mentioned are pretty obvious. And I want to emphasize that I dont hate d3, I have close to 250 hours played on 3 different characters, 2 of which I have cleared inferno with. I've stopped playing and the main reason for that is there is nothing to do in inferno. Not to mention that the combat mechanics, target aquisition, monster AI, world persistence, character controls and numerous other things are completely different. Hey that's pretty cool. things you list, a lot of them were in diablo2 and they remained the same. great! But why did they borrow from WoW so many things that really had no place in a diablo game? Can you please explain to me? I don't think so. By the way, world persistence... Are you trying to tell me that a MMO is different from a single player game with multiplayer component? lol Come on now m8, please. You had to really scrape the bottom of the barrel to come up with these things. Actually, I can tell you why. But first, please stop being so pig-headed (stubborn) and rude when discussing this. In an interview they said that they were not trying to recreate diablo 2 or diablo 1. They were making a new game and wanted to change some things up that they thought could be done better (like potions, leveling, skill system, etc.). To sum it up: If you want to play diablo 2, go play diablo 2. Their intent was not to make diablo 2 version 2. Will their ideas work? I think so but it's still to early to tell. By your comments I can basically tell you didn't play diablo 2 when it was first released as it basically sucked shit compared to what it was after a couple of patches, the expansion and then a couple more patches. Diablo 2, especially after normal difficulty, was ridiculously broken in terms of items and skills when it was first released and it didn't get fixed until months later.
I have played it at release and yeah it wasn't that great but it wasn't god awful. And I have over 200 hours in d3, I don't hate the game, I'm just saying it has no staying power, no longevity.
The thing is, are you looking for d3 to be better or at least as good as diablo 1/2? Or are you looking for it to be just slightly better than what d2 at release was?
One of their interviews mentioned that d3 had more unique (legendary) items than d2. But guess what, they only had a few more items than d2's release product. If you look at d2:LOD and the patches, d3 has like 5 or more times less items.
They have 4 gems... d2 had more gems and all the runes and jewels. d2 also had more socketable items even though d3 has more items to equip.
d3 is just unfinished and their "new" and "better" design decisions are in fact not better and not new. Again, I don't want to harp on their simplified stats system but, in d2 most of points usually went in to stamina/vitality (= what they call "no choice" or "no variety") and yet in d3 you don't even have a choice where you stats go. Everyone is just looking for their main damage stat and vitality (haha). There is no variety either.
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On June 22 2012 05:34 Lokian wrote:Show nested quote +On June 22 2012 05:28 skyR wrote:On June 22 2012 05:26 Lokian wrote:
Diablo 3 is missing a big part of its release.. PVP. So before you question the longevity of the game, think about what PVP can bring to the table. It will be out this summer, so hold your horses and hold your horns for a bit longer.
Even though this patch is suppose to make transitioning easier... all the good gear to do inferno act 3/4 still is unobtainable without AH. I have about 5mill worth of gear I got from act 2. Going to act 3 I have to invest 5mil into one piece of gear. I don't farm gold. I don't want to monitor the AH and try my luck at reselling. I just want to bash monsters and be able to use the gear I get from them at least 1/10 of the time. Blizzard needs to incorporate something so that you don't need to rely on the AH. Say, make a new set of gear that binds to your account. These items are rare. You can't trade away /sell on the auction house, and can't repair,.. dropping these items would simply make it dissappear or only visible to you? Wtf? ilvl 63 drops in act 1 which means the gear is obtainable. If you don't want to grind and don't want to use the AH than just quit playing the game. I do grind, but in inferno, there's only one type of gear. vit/all resist, and certain extras. i've been farming act 2 and the drop rates are better and ilevel 63 items are there. but to get the right one the chances are slim. I don't know how many affixes are there, but the sheer variety makes it so its unobtainable. Sure, you get lucky with one piece, but you need five more. I don't use the AH very often, and this is the struggle of someone that doesn't. btw, saying that i dont want to grind, were you referring to gold grinding? i dont think not wanting to gold farm is merit to telling someone to GTFO. calm down man. no ones taking your pizza away from you
Why would I be referring to gold grinding? Grinding is all the same. You said gear is unobtainable which is far from true since that's exactly what patch 1.0.3 did - it made the gear obtainable for the people stuck on Act I and II while screwing over those in Act III and IV. And if you think there's variety in gear than you're sadly mistaken...
Your post can be summarized into a simple sentence, "I want gear handed to me without any effort."
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On June 22 2012 05:28 skyR wrote:Show nested quote +On June 22 2012 05:26 Lokian wrote:
Diablo 3 is missing a big part of its release.. PVP. So before you question the longevity of the game, think about what PVP can bring to the table. It will be out this summer, so hold your horses and hold your horns for a bit longer.
Even though this patch is suppose to make transitioning easier... all the good gear to do inferno act 3/4 still is unobtainable without AH. I have about 5mill worth of gear I got from act 2. Going to act 3 I have to invest 5mil into one piece of gear. I don't farm gold. I don't want to monitor the AH and try my luck at reselling. I just want to bash monsters and be able to use the gear I get from them at least 1/10 of the time. Blizzard needs to incorporate something so that you don't need to rely on the AH. Say, make a new set of gear that binds to your account. These items are rare. You can't trade away /sell on the auction house, and can't repair,.. dropping these items would simply make it dissappear or only visible to you? Wtf? ilvl 63 drops in act 1 which means the gear is obtainable. If you don't want to grind and don't want to use the AH than just quit playing the game.
I have yet to see or hear about someone getting 63 on act 1 ...
I got a set but not a 63 ...
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On June 22 2012 05:53 skyR wrote:Show nested quote +On June 22 2012 05:34 Lokian wrote:On June 22 2012 05:28 skyR wrote:On June 22 2012 05:26 Lokian wrote:
Diablo 3 is missing a big part of its release.. PVP. So before you question the longevity of the game, think about what PVP can bring to the table. It will be out this summer, so hold your horses and hold your horns for a bit longer.
Even though this patch is suppose to make transitioning easier... all the good gear to do inferno act 3/4 still is unobtainable without AH. I have about 5mill worth of gear I got from act 2. Going to act 3 I have to invest 5mil into one piece of gear. I don't farm gold. I don't want to monitor the AH and try my luck at reselling. I just want to bash monsters and be able to use the gear I get from them at least 1/10 of the time. Blizzard needs to incorporate something so that you don't need to rely on the AH. Say, make a new set of gear that binds to your account. These items are rare. You can't trade away /sell on the auction house, and can't repair,.. dropping these items would simply make it dissappear or only visible to you? Wtf? ilvl 63 drops in act 1 which means the gear is obtainable. If you don't want to grind and don't want to use the AH than just quit playing the game. I do grind, but in inferno, there's only one type of gear. vit/all resist, and certain extras. i've been farming act 2 and the drop rates are better and ilevel 63 items are there. but to get the right one the chances are slim. I don't know how many affixes are there, but the sheer variety makes it so its unobtainable. Sure, you get lucky with one piece, but you need five more. I don't use the AH very often, and this is the struggle of someone that doesn't. btw, saying that i dont want to grind, were you referring to gold grinding? i dont think not wanting to gold farm is merit to telling someone to GTFO. calm down man. no ones taking your pizza away from you Why would I be referring to gold grinding? Grinding is all the same. You said gear is unobtainable which is far from true since that's exactly what patch 1.0.3 did - it made the gear obtainable for the people stuck on Act I and II while screwing over those in Act III and IV. And if you think there's variety in gear than you're sadly mistaken... Your post can be summarized into a simple sentence, "I want gear handed to me without any effort."
No its not. I can't tell if you're a troll or not but I said I just wanted to grind monsters and not have to use the AH for everything.
let me quote myself:
I don't farm gold. I don't want to monitor the AH and try my luck at reselling. I just want to bash monsters and be able to use the gear I get from them at least 1/10 of the time.
So yeah, I grind those acts pretty hard.
also
Going to act 3
means im in act 3. act 1 and 2 is not a big deal. i want the gear to farm siegebreaker without AH.
As someones who's farmed act II before and after the patch, there is a big difference in drops. Theres more vareity. Before, my yellows were all lvl 59+. Now, I get lvl 54 yellows in act II even... The drop rates were never revealed before, so you don't know if its actually better or not that much better.
And I'm not asking for items to be handed to me... THat's why I don't pay attention to the AH. because its cheat. If I wanted items handed to me, I'd pay up gold or cash for them. I'm doing it the hard way, actually regular NV grinding.
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On June 22 2012 05:53 skyR wrote:Show nested quote +On June 22 2012 05:34 Lokian wrote:On June 22 2012 05:28 skyR wrote:On June 22 2012 05:26 Lokian wrote:
Diablo 3 is missing a big part of its release.. PVP. So before you question the longevity of the game, think about what PVP can bring to the table. It will be out this summer, so hold your horses and hold your horns for a bit longer.
Even though this patch is suppose to make transitioning easier... all the good gear to do inferno act 3/4 still is unobtainable without AH. I have about 5mill worth of gear I got from act 2. Going to act 3 I have to invest 5mil into one piece of gear. I don't farm gold. I don't want to monitor the AH and try my luck at reselling. I just want to bash monsters and be able to use the gear I get from them at least 1/10 of the time. Blizzard needs to incorporate something so that you don't need to rely on the AH. Say, make a new set of gear that binds to your account. These items are rare. You can't trade away /sell on the auction house, and can't repair,.. dropping these items would simply make it dissappear or only visible to you? Wtf? ilvl 63 drops in act 1 which means the gear is obtainable. If you don't want to grind and don't want to use the AH than just quit playing the game. I do grind, but in inferno, there's only one type of gear. vit/all resist, and certain extras. i've been farming act 2 and the drop rates are better and ilevel 63 items are there. but to get the right one the chances are slim. I don't know how many affixes are there, but the sheer variety makes it so its unobtainable. Sure, you get lucky with one piece, but you need five more. I don't use the AH very often, and this is the struggle of someone that doesn't. btw, saying that i dont want to grind, were you referring to gold grinding? i dont think not wanting to gold farm is merit to telling someone to GTFO. calm down man. no ones taking your pizza away from you Why would I be referring to gold grinding? Grinding is all the same. You said gear is unobtainable which is far from true since that's exactly what patch 1.0.3 did - it made the gear obtainable for the people stuck on Act I and II while screwing over those in Act III and IV. And if you think there's variety in gear than you're sadly mistaken... Your post can be summarized into a simple sentence, "I want gear handed to me without any effort."
it's funny because people don't seem to realize that it will inevitably fuck everyone over. Now that those players stuck in act1/2 can potentially farm up easier, they will just get to act 3/4 and suffer the same inefficient farming. Perhaps they won't care because they didn't know what it was before, but it's a very short term solution; cut your nose to spite your face type stuff.
dont play enough or aren't good enough to progress? Here, progression is now easier. However, the reward for your progress is now 40-66% less. Hope you're happy!
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I'm going to throw this out there. I had multiple characters kill Diablo in Hell in Diablo 2. From what I remember, I had at least 7 complete the act. I also had quite a few that I abandoned earlier. I never had any one of those characters hit level 90. It was extremely tedious. Roughly mid to high 80s was the highest I ever got.
For me, once I beat the final boss of the final difficulty of the game, the only thing keeping me coming back is character progression. It's fun getting better items to see how much more powerful my character is when I do my next run. Once the time commitment to get incrementally stronger gets too high, I just quit. It's not fun for me anymore. In Diablo 2, that meant leveling until it takes too long to get to the next level for me. It meant farming locations until it took too long to get the next item upgrade.
Diablo 3 patch 1.03, to me, was an improvement in some aspects. I didn't like them reducing guaranteed rares from 5 NV stacks on bosses from 2 to 1. I liked them giving out a guaranteed rare from champion/unique packs. But most of all, I hate how much they nerfed the drop rates in act 3/act 4. I tried a couple of 2-hour runs and am incredibly discouraged by the loot I got. My progression has just hit a brick wall.
The biggest fallacy Blizzard and its defenders is making is the assumption that people will play until they get a perfect character. They assume that if drop rates were nerfed to such a degree that people will get perfect gear in 50 years, people will actually play Diablo 3 for 50 years. People aren't. If drop rates become so low that people don't feel like they are progressing, they're going to quit playing their unfinished characters to play another game.
Right now, I'm very close to that level. Before 1.03, I was already at 200 hours. I was estimating that I would hit 400 hours before I start playing at a lot more casual level. Even if I wasn't getting a lot of upgrades through drops, I was getting enough sellable gear during my Cydaea/Azmodan runs that I could afford to buy stuff from the AH. Once the patch hit, I'm getting fewer good items and I'm seeing fewer good items listed on the AH. After 1.03, I don't feel like farming in inferno any longer. The drop rates for act 3 are just that low and that discouraging. Once my barb hits level 60, I'm probably going to drop D3 immediately.
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How stupid of me to think 1.0.3 would bring back the fun... Blizzard is really genius! No other developer on this planet would manage to make this game even more worse!
Now, I can progress through Act3 much easier but its worseless because the the Drops even with 5xNV are way worse than Pre-Patch. Its great that every pack drops 1-3 yellows if they are level55-58 ....NOT!
And as Barb the best thing to make money is NOT to get hit by any mobs...
I think 1.0.3 was the Patch to make even the last nerds who played D3 quit, that they can reduce the serverload and make even more Profit!
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tbh, this patch has made it so i've stopped playing endgame diablo 3. i'm much more content leveling up characters now, than getting punished for trying to farm up act 3 inferno.
also, riot should thank blizzard, i'm finally going back to playing lol, after 3 weeks of not playing it.
patch 1.03, secret conspiracy to force diablo 3 players to play other games.
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So how are you supposed to beat ghom now? Wtihin a couple (like 30-45) of seconds he has the entire room - yes, the entire room,e xcept maybe a tiny corner full of poison that kills me in like 6 seconds even with 1200 poison resist.
It's even worse in groups where the non melee characters die instantly and he has 150% hp.
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EPT
