Zombie Charger (Skill Rune: Zombie Bears): Fixed a bug where Zombie Bears were unable to attack targets on slopes, Zombie Bears should no longer become stuck on objects with which they shouldn’t have collision
Items General
Equipped items will now take "wear-and-tear" durability damage at half the previous rate *Please note that durability loss as the result of normal combat is different from the 10% durability loss characters will incur when they die. Equipped items have always suffered durability loss while fighting, and we are simply slowing the rate at which the loss occurs.
- Bug Fixes
Fixed a bug that was causing Unique monsters to not drop the appropriate amount of loot when slain
Fixed a bug with linking items with 3 gem sockets
It is no longer possible to create fake achievement links
Bug Fixes General
Fixed a bug that was causing the “Switch Hero” button to occasionally disappear after leaving a game while in town
Fixed several gold and leveling exploits
Fixed several game and service crashes (for Mac and PC)
June 19thDiablo III Patch 1.0.3 - v.1.0.3.10057
The latest client patch notes can be found here. Hotfixes made in addition to changes in patch 1.0.2c can be found here.
To prevent monsters from being unintentionally kited into town from other areas of the game, portals have been placed at both ends of the bridge from New Tristram to The Weeping Willow. Towns have always been intended to be a safe haven from combat, and this change will help keep the denizens of New Tristram safe from the dangers that lurk beyond its walls.
The real-money auction house is now available for Chilean, Argentinian, and Brazilian currencies.
Battle.net General
Friends will now sort alphabetically by name within the Friends List, first by Real ID and then by BattleTag
The Quick Join menu will now also sort alphabetically by name, first by Real ID and then by BattleTag
Chat settings and preferences will now be saved whenever you log out
Reporting another player using the Report > Spam option will now mute that player for the duration of your gaming session
Bug Fixes
Using the /who command in a heavily populated chat channel should no longer cause the client to crash
The "Invite to Party" button should no longer become grayed-out if a player: Declines a party invite, Requests a party invite and then declines it, Accepts a party invite, but immediately then leaves the party
The character screen should now always display the display the correct act and quest information
If Real ID has been disabled for a Battle.net account, attempting to add a Real ID friend in Diablo III will now prompt the player with the following error message: "Battle.net is unable to add friends because you have Real ID disabled."
Classes Barbarian - Active Skills
Ignore Pain (Skill Rune: Contempt for Weakness): The amount of damage reflected will now cap at the player's maximum Life
Overpower (Skill Rune: Crushing Advance): The amount of damage reflected will now cap at the player's maximum Life, The tooltip has been updated to represent that both melee and ranged damage are reflected
Weapon Throw: Tooltip now displays the correct duration for how long a target will be slowed: "Hurl a throwing weapon at any enemy for 100% weapon damage and Slow the movement of the enemy by 60% for 1.5 seconds." (The functionality of the skill has not changed.)
- Passive Skills
Relentless: Now reduces the Fury cost of all skill by 75%, down from 100% (the 50% damage reduction remains unchanged)
Demon Hunter - Active Skills
Cluster Arrow (Skill Rune: Dazzling Arrow): Tooltip now displays the correct type of weapon damage dealt by Dazzling Arrow: "Enemies hit by grenades have a 55% chance to be stunned for 2 seconds and changes the damage to Physical." (The functionality of the skill has not changed.)
Grenades (Skill Rune: Stun Grenades): Tooltip now displays the correct duration for how long a target will be stunned: "Hurl grenades that have a 25% chance to Stun enemies for 1.5 seconds." (The functionality of the skill has not changed.)
- Bug Fixes
Caltrops (Skill Rune: Jagged Spikes): Effect will now only stack up to 10 times on a single target
Elemental Arrow (Skill Rune: Nether Tentacles): Tentacles will now only hit each target once
Monk - General
Monks can now use spears, two-handed weapons, and two-handed swords
- Active Skills
Serenity (Skill Rune: Instant Karma): The amount of damage reflected will now cap at the player's maximum Life
Seven-Sided Strike (Skill Rune: Sustained Attack): Tooltip has been updated for clarity: "Reduces the cooldown of Seven-Sided Strike to 23 seconds." (The functionality of the skill has not changed.)
Mantra of Retribution: Damage will now cap based on the maximum Life of the target
- Bug Fixes
Near Death Experience: Fatal damage absorbed by Serenity will no longer trigger Near Death Experience
Witch Doctor - Active Skills
Summon Zombie Dogs (Skill Rune: Leeching Beasts): Tooltip has been updated for clarity: "Your Zombie Dogs heal 50% of the damage they deal as Life divided evenly between themselves and you." (The functionality of the skill has not changed.)
Wizard - Active Skills
Diamond Skin (skill Rune: Mirror Skin): The amount of damage reflected will now cap at the amount of damage absorbed by Diamond Skin
Magic Weapon: When activated, a buff icon will now appear that displays the amount of time remaining
Meteor (Skill Rune: Star Pact): Now deals damage as Arcane instead of Fire
- Passive Skills
Paralysis: Tooltip now displays the correct duration for how long a target will be stunned: "Lightning damage dealt to enemies has up to a 8% chance to Stun the target for 1.5 seconds." (The functionality of the skill has not changed.)
Items General
+ Attack Speed bonus values on weapons and armor have been reduced by 50% (This change does not apply to quivers)
High-end items (items level 61-63) will now drop in all Acts of Inferno and Acts III and IV of Hell difficulty: The new approximate drop rates are as follows: - Hell - Act III and Act IV: iLvl 61: 9%, iLvl 62: 1.9%, iLvl 63: 0% - Inferno - Act I: iLvl 61: 17.7%, iLvl 62: 7.9%, iLvl 63: 2.0% - Inferno - Act II: iLvl 61: 18.6%, iLvl 62: 12.4%, iLvl 63: 4.1% - Inferno - Act III and Act IV: iLvl 61: 24.1%, iLvl 62: 16.1%, iLvl 63: 8.0% [small]{*Please see the Patch 1.0.3 Design Preview for more information and specific details}
Repair costs have been increased for item levels between 53 and 63
Magic Find will no longer be considered when looting objects in the environment such as chests, barrels, vases, pots, and corpses
The item quality of all components needed to craft the Staff of Herding, as well as the Staff of Herding itself, have been changed from Common to Legendary (i.e. their item names will appear orange in color)
The Staff of Herding can no longer be salvaged or dropped
Crafted items that are dropped on the ground due to a player’s inventory being full can no longer be seen or picked up by other players
Unique monsters in Hell and Inferno difficulty are no longer guaranteed to drop two Magic items when slain
Weapon racks will no longer drop weapons 100% of the time
Destructible objects no longer have a chance to drop items, and will only have a small chance to drop gold when destroyed
Weapons and Armor
"Balanced" superior items (i.e. Balanced Short Sword) will now grant a percent attack speed increase that only affects the weapon itself, rather than a flat increase to attacks per second that affected both equipped weapons when dual-wielding
Crowd Control Reduction from items and skills will now reduce the percentage value of Slow, Chill, and Attack Speed debuffs rather than reducing how long the debuff lasts: For example: previously, if you were debuffed by a 60% slow that lasted for 2 seconds while wearing gear that provides 20% Crowd Control Reduction, your movement speed would be reduced by 60%, but only for 1.6 seconds. Now, the same amount of Crowd Control Reduction will reduce the Slow effect to 48%, but the effect will remain for the full 2 second duration.
Manticore now has one additional bonus affix
User Interface
Minimum damage and Maximum damage values will now display separately in an item's tooltip (i.e. "+2-4 Damage" will now display as "+2 Minimum Damage” and “+2 Maximum Damage")
Tooltips for items on the ground will now show comparison stats ]*]Resist values will now be taken into effect when calculating the Protection comparison stat (the Protection value is an average protection estimate of all your resists)
When comparing a two-handed weapon against two currently-equipped one-handed weapons, the game will now simulate the removal of both one-handed weapons (instead of simply removing the main-hand weapon, which resulted in an inaccurate comparison)
When selling items to a vendor, the most recently sold items will now always display at the bottom of the Buyback tab
- Bug Fixes
Items level 50 and above will now display their item level in the tooltip
Damage Over Time (DoT) skills will now properly benefit from items with the +Critical Chance affix
Legendary items with the +Attack Speed bonus will now correctly provide a bonus to attack speed. Please note that this fix will only affect new Legendary drops. Existing Legendary items will be addressed in future patch.
Players wearing +Life on Kill items should no longer receive a benefit from this affix when "killing" friendly monsters (e.g. when a witch doctor re-summons a Spider Queen while another Spider Queen is still active)
Fixed a bug with linking items with socketed gems in chat
Fixed a bug where vendors would occasionally not have any items for sale
Fixed a bug where selling more than 12 items to a vendor and then buying back 1 of those items could cause multiple items to disappear from the Buyback tab
Fixed a bug where swapping a 1-slot item (i.e. a ring) with 2-slot item (i.e. a weapon) in the second or third tab of a player’s stash would sometimes cause the 2-slot item to be filtered incorrectly to the first tab
Fixed a bug that was causing Collector's Edition dyes to sell for the same price regardless of stack size
Crafting General
The gold and material crafting costs for all items level 1-59 have been reduced by 50% to 75%
- Blacksmith
The gold cost to level the Blacksmith has been reduced by 50%
The number of Pages of Blacksmithing, Tomes of Blacksmithing, or Tomes of Secrets required to level the Blacksmith has been reduced
Base levels now require 1 page/tome, down from 5
Milestone levels now require 2 pages/tomes, down from 5
The number of Pages of Blacksmithing and Tomes of Blacksmithing required to craft items level 1-59 has been reduced
Items with 3 affixes no longer require Pages of Blacksmithing or Tomes of Blacksmithing to craft
The gold cost of crafting items with 4 affixes and 5 affixes (including items in Inferno difficulty) has been reduced
Weapon crafting costs have been reduced
The chance for level 60 items to produce Legendary crafting materials when salvaged has been reduced
- Jeweler
The gold and material cost to combine gems ranks 2-8 has been reduced
Combinations for these ranks now only require 2 gems, down from 3
The gold cost to combine each rank of gems is now as follows: - Rank 2 - Flawed: 10 gold (down from 500 gold) - Rank 3 - Regular: 25 gold (down from 750 gold) - Rank 4 - Flawless: 40 gold (down from 1250 gold) - Rank 5 - Perfect: 55 gold (down from 2000 gold) - Rank 6 - Radiant: 70 gold (down from 3500 gold) - Rank 7 - Square: 85 gold (down from 7500 gold) - Rank 8 - Flawless Square: 100 gold (down from 20,000 gold)
Followers General - Bug Fixes
Fixed a bug where the maximum Life of your followers was being displayed as different values in different parts of the game UI
Enchantress- Skills
Mass Control: Radius reduced from 15 yards to 8 yards, If Enchantress also has Reflect Missiles trained, Mass Control will no longer accidentally hex the player when both skills are activated, Skill will now correctly target enemies in all circumstances
Bosses General
Bosses have had their pathing improved
The quality of the item for the fourth stack of Nephalem Valor from bosses has been slightly reduced
Skeleton King - Abilities
Will now summon Skeletal Archers in Hell and Inferno difficulties.
The Warden (mini-boss) - General
Now has Fast and Molten affixes, in addition to Jailer
In Inferno difficulty, the Warden will also gain the Desecrator affix
Butcher - Bug Fixes
Fixed an issue where the corner panel fires in the Chamber of Suffering were doing twice as much damage as intended
Ghom - Abilities
Gas Cloud: Radius of Gas Cloud has been slightly reduced, Slowing effect has been removed, The amount of damage dealt by Gas Cloud when first entering the cloud has been reduced, but the amount of damage incurred for remaining in the cloud has been increased
In Inferno difficulty, Gas Clouds will last longer, spawn 2 at a time, and (after 4 minutes) spawn more quickly
Maghda - Bug Fixes
Punish Dust projectiles can no longer be reflected
Zoltun Kulle - General
Zoltun Kulle will now enrage in Inferno difficulty after 3 minutes, using his Ceiling Collapse ability more often and for much higher damage.
- Abilities:
Ceiling Collapse: Can now be cast at a player from any range
Fireball: Fireball attack now moves slower, Can now be cast at a player from any range
Teleport: Will now Teleport and run away from the player less often, will now occasionally Teleport to the player.
Belial - General
Belial will now enrage in Inferno difficulty after 3 minutes in his final phase, increasing the number of green pools dropped across the entire encounter platform
- Bug Fixes [*] Fixed a bug that was causing Belial to use his breath attack away from the player rather than towards the player under certain circumstances Siegebreaker - General
Overall damage has been reduced.
No longer vulnerable to Confuse and Charm effects
Will now drop a health globe every 25% health mark (i.e. at 75%, 50%, and 25% health)
Now enrages after 4 minutes
In Inferno difficulty, Siegebreaker will now gain the Reflects Damage affix
Cydaea - Abilities
Spiderlings: Spiderlings will now have an easier time hitting players, but their damage has been reduced by 20% to compensate, in Inferno difficulty, Spiderlings will now live longer, be more spread out, and (after 4 minutes) spawn more often
Rakanoth - General
In Inferno difficulty, Rakanoth will now become much more aggressive after 3 minutes
Izual - General
Health pool has been increased
The number of Oppressors that join the fight has been reduced from 4 to 2
Will no longer target Followers or Tyrael as frequently
- Abilities
Base Attacks: Base attack damage has been lowered, No longer does Cold damage on top of base attacks
Charge: Charge damage has been reduced, Knockback has been removed, Will Charge slightly more often, but will only target players
Frozen Bombs: Frozen Bomb damage has been reduced, Bombs will now explode faster, Only 8 Bombs will now spawn around the player rather than 12, Bombs will spawn at Izual's feet less often
Frost Explosion: Frost Explosion damage has been reduced by 70%, Duration of freeze has been increased, Damage dealt to players while frozen will now break the effect, Players can now use defensive cooldown while frozen, Players can no longer avoid being frozen by doing high amounts of amount to Izual
- Bug Fixes
Izual will no longer spawn twice if a player skips his introductory cut-scene
-- Diablo: Bug Fixes
Damage Over Time (DoT) effects will now be properly cancelled when Diablo becomes invisible and casts Shadow Clones in Phase Two
Diablo "Stomp" ability is now correctly classified as a debuff instead of a buff
Fixed a bug that was causing pets to not attack Shadow Clones
Monsters - General
Champions, Rares, and Uniques have had their pathing improved
Elite packs (Champion/Rare) now drop an additional item for players with 5 stacks of Nephalem Valor, which is guaranteed to be of Rare quality
Damage from monsters in Acts II, III, and IV in Inferno difficulty has been reduced
Colossal Golgor base damage has been reduced
Herald of Pestilence tentacle attack damage has been reduced
Soul Ripper and Soul Lasher damage has been reduced and both monsters will now run away less often
Wasps in Act II, Mage Constructs in Act II, and Winged Mollocks in Acts III and IV will now run away less
Succubus monsters will now run away less and for a shorter distance
The health pools of Woodwraiths in the Highlands now match the health pools of Woodwraiths in the Fields of Misery
Lacuni and Scavenger Rares and and Champions will now un-burrow when called by their allies
Bloodclan Warriors no longer knockback when buffed and attack slightly slower
Morlu no longer have the Invulnerable Minions, Health Link, or Fire Chains affixes
Plagued, Arcane Enchanted, and Electrified monsters no longer have resistance to Poison, Arcane, and Lightning damage (respectively)
Leaders of Invulnerable Minions packs have had their health pools reduced
Mortar monsters can now hurl projectiles farther, but their minimum range has also been increased by 100%
- Bug Fixes
Interrupting a monster attack before it lands will now properly trigger its cooldown
Treasure Goblins will now drop gold piles for all nearby players
Lacuni Warrior Rares and Champions will now reset their enrage timer correctly in Inferno difficulty
The Succubus "Blood Star" debuff will no longer affect the player if the damage from the projectile is dodged/blocked/etc
The damage from the Succubus “Blood Star” debuff will now scale based on the current cost of a player's skill, even if the cost is reduced by items or skill runes
Monsters with the Extra Health affix should no longer gain more health every time players leave and join the game
Monsters with the Reflects Damage affix will no longer reflect Follower damage back to the player
Monsters with the Health Link and Knockback affixes will no longer knockback friendly monsters
Fixed a bug that was causing Champion Wallers to occasionally create walls at their location rather than the player's location
Fixed a bug where Sandwasp projectiles could sometimes become invisible
Bug Fixes - General
The experience bar for characters at level cap on a Guest Pass account will now display 0/0 experience. If the account holder upgrades to the full game, their characters will be at 0/41000 experience towards the next level.
The speed of the animation that plays when resurrecting another players should no longer scale with your attack speed
Attempting to cast a skill while spamming the Town Portal hot key will now correctly interrupt the Town Portal cast and animation
Players who use Town Portal while in a tar pit will no longer keep the tar pit debuff after being teleported
It is no longer possible for players in Hell difficulty to skip to Inferno difficulty by creating and leaving Public Games
It is no longer possible to prevent character death in a single-player game by pausing the game in one game client and then logging into the same account from a different game client
Fixed a bug where The Lyceum in the Southern Highlands was not appearing
Fixed a bug where players could switch their offerings in the Trade window right before clicking "Accept" and, due to high latency, the game would not always be able to verify that both players were accepting the same offerings
Fixed a bug that was allowing players to temporarily pick up items that belonged to another account
Fixed a bug that was causing players to become stuck when using a banner to port to another player that was in an "un-walkable" location (i.e. to a barbarian in the middle of performing Leap)
Fixed a position desync bug (aka "rubberbanding") that could happen when some movement skills (Strafe, Whirlwind, Tempest Rush) ended because the player ran out of the appropriate resource
Fixed several issues where a player's character would get stuck or "rubberband" while moving if their movement speed was slowed in any way
Several performance improvements have been made to both the PC and Mac client
- Auction House
Item tooltips in the auction house will now correctly reflect stat bonuses provided by socketed gems
Items with class-specific affixes should now display the class restriction properly
It should no longer be possible for players to purchase a stack of items so large that it cannot be sent to their stash
The data displayed in each auction house tab should now properly reset when logging out
[/list]
June 8General
In cooperative games, monster damage will no longer increase when additional players join the game (Please note that monster health will still scale based on the number of players in a party).
Bug Fixes
Tyrael no longer has collision when he is your active follower
Pots of ashes in Act I and vases in Act IV will now drop less gold when destroyed
Fixed a bug where players could turn in the same quest repeatedly and always receive rewards as though they were completing the quest for the first time
Blizzard now understanding their mistakes which is good. Hopefully they can keep releasing these patchs at a decent pace. We all know diablo needs it thats for sure
A lot of these things should of been fixed before it came out but I am glad they're being fixed. Playing the game is much better then just exploiting the game. Play the game with your friends now .
So sad about Tyrael's dps nerf. I mean it was a little silly the way you could use Tyrael to your advantage for farming, but was this really necessary? Why not just disable his ability to keep fighting while you are dead instead of cutting his dps by like 95%, I mean the mobs heal faster than he injures them now, so he is effectively useless, and if you face any Vampiric rares/champions, he is actually a hindrance. How's that for an Archangel leading the human forces to victory >.>
blizz going down the "play the game the way we want you to, or else" path. honestly and truly, tell me how people chest farming is bad for us? what it really has done is pushed the gold prices on items down a lot for those of us who dont play that much.
and if they were going to nerf Tyrael, why not go ahead and adjust the elite/champion hp/dmg at the same time? I still have a suspicion that any inferno nerfs will be more psychological than of actual significance.
blizz going down the "play the game the way we want you to, or else" path. honestly and truly, tell me how people chest farming is bad for us? what it really has done is pushed the gold prices on items down a lot for those of us who dont play that much.
and if they were going to nerf Tyrael, why not go ahead and adjust the elite/champion hp/dmg at the same time? I still have a suspicion that any inferno nerfs will be more psychological than of actual significance.
Please explain to me how allowing a small section of the community to excessively farm gold is good for us? It will push down gold prices for when RMAH comes out, but more gold in circulation means higher prices on GAH for everyone else. It may appear to put down prices on GAH for you now but in future it will be a hinderance, see all that gold for those items is going to a small subset of people so now when really nice items come out and people are throwing around their 100's of millions earned through chest / crypts farming you'll be sitting on your ass with sub standard gear.
Good move if you ask me, if people want to go around smashing pots for a safe coin they can, its just that now its not more efficient than Butcher runs... that's entirely sensible.
I like the changes. Ideally, I want the best farming method to be just playing an act from start to finish. I think it will be more fun that way. If I have to do pot smashing or chest runs day after day, I will pull out my hair.
On June 10 2012 01:34 Chairman Ray wrote: I like the changes. Ideally, I want the best farming method to be just playing an act from start to finish. I think it will be more fun that way. If I have to do pot smashing or chest runs day after day, I will pull out my hair.
leveling fixes suck tho. sorry i dont want to play the same easy shit for the 20th time just to have the character i want.
farming is one thing. leveling is a totally different story.
On June 10 2012 01:34 Chairman Ray wrote: I like the changes. Ideally, I want the best farming method to be just playing an act from start to finish. I think it will be more fun that way. If I have to do pot smashing or chest runs day after day, I will pull out my hair.
leveling fixes suck tho. sorry i dont want to play the same easy shit for the 20th time just to have the character i want.
farming is one thing. leveling is a totally different story.
I guess you want an option where when you get to 60, they give you level 60's of all the other characters?
On June 10 2012 01:45 drivec wrote: not so great of changes if you spent millions on gold find gear and havnt made your money back
I'm sorry but it should have been pretty clear the "break vases to earn 400k/hr" thing was going to get nerfed hard. I do think it's silly they didn't just disable Tyrael from attacking while you're dead instead though.
I knew I should have stayed up last night and finished power leveling my doc and my buddy to 60. It was a good run ZK at least I'm only 3.5 bars from 60 and my buddy is 56. I guess we will grind the rest of the way, unless there is still a spot that gives good xp/h?
On June 10 2012 01:49 nikj wrote: I knew I should have stayed up last night and finished power leveling my doc and my buddy to 60. It was a good run ZK at least I'm only 3.5 bars from 60 and my buddy is 56. I guess we will grind the rest of the way, unless there is still a spot that gives good xp/h?
On June 10 2012 01:49 nikj wrote: I knew I should have stayed up last night and finished power leveling my doc and my buddy to 60. It was a good run ZK at least I'm only 3.5 bars from 60 and my buddy is 56. I guess we will grind the rest of the way, unless there is still a spot that gives good xp/h?
Just do Act 4 Quest 1 in public games
Or orad of alcarnus quest in act 2. Easiest way to farm xp.
On June 10 2012 01:49 nikj wrote: I knew I should have stayed up last night and finished power leveling my doc and my buddy to 60. It was a good run ZK at least I'm only 3.5 bars from 60 and my buddy is 56. I guess we will grind the rest of the way, unless there is still a spot that gives good xp/h?
Just do Act 4 Quest 1 in public games
Or orad of alcarnus quest in act 2. Easiest way to farm xp.
That's nerfed now too. Alcarnus quest doesn't give the xp anymore either.
On June 10 2012 01:34 Chairman Ray wrote: I like the changes. Ideally, I want the best farming method to be just playing an act from start to finish. I think it will be more fun that way. If I have to do pot smashing or chest runs day after day, I will pull out my hair.
leveling fixes suck tho. sorry i dont want to play the same easy shit for the 20th time just to have the character i want.
farming is one thing. leveling is a totally different story.
I guess you want an option where when you get to 60, they give you level 60's of all the other characters?
hell ya you know how much extra shit I would sell to people who are like "well I guess I have the char might as well put gear on it"
Luckily I got in an exploited on all my accounts to get a bunch of 60s in about 2hours each, still not as boring as playing the game, but very close.
On June 10 2012 01:34 Chairman Ray wrote: I like the changes. Ideally, I want the best farming method to be just playing an act from start to finish. I think it will be more fun that way. If I have to do pot smashing or chest runs day after day, I will pull out my hair.
leveling fixes suck tho. sorry i dont want to play the same easy shit for the 20th time just to have the character i want.
farming is one thing. leveling is a totally different story.
I guess you want an option where when you get to 60, they give you level 60's of all the other characters?
hell ya you know how much extra shit I would sell to people who are like "well I guess I have the char might as well put gear on it"
Luckily I got in an exploited on all my accounts to get a bunch of 60s in about 2hours each, still not as boring as playing the game, but very close.
On June 10 2012 01:34 Chairman Ray wrote: I like the changes. Ideally, I want the best farming method to be just playing an act from start to finish. I think it will be more fun that way. If I have to do pot smashing or chest runs day after day, I will pull out my hair.
leveling fixes suck tho. sorry i dont want to play the same easy shit for the 20th time just to have the character i want.
farming is one thing. leveling is a totally different story.
I guess you want an option where when you get to 60, they give you level 60's of all the other characters?
the methods were far from free
and i would greatly welcome options to hugely boost the speed by spending gold or using inferno items.
it just takes stupidly long to get to 60 in regular ways. its totally fine on the first char, after that evrything but inferno is trivial and nothing but a 30+ hour long grind.
On June 10 2012 01:34 Chairman Ray wrote: I like the changes. Ideally, I want the best farming method to be just playing an act from start to finish. I think it will be more fun that way. If I have to do pot smashing or chest runs day after day, I will pull out my hair.
leveling fixes suck tho. sorry i dont want to play the same easy shit for the 20th time just to have the character i want.
farming is one thing. leveling is a totally different story.
I guess you want an option where when you get to 60, they give you level 60's of all the other characters?
hell ya you know how much extra shit I would sell to people who are like "well I guess I have the char might as well put gear on it"
Luckily I got in an exploited on all my accounts to get a bunch of 60s in about 2hours each, still not as boring as playing the game, but very close.
Sounds like you're really enjoying Diablo 3
This is the guy who says the game is complete trash yet apparently has a ton of 60's and was trying to trade gold for D3 accounts
On June 10 2012 01:34 Chairman Ray wrote: I like the changes. Ideally, I want the best farming method to be just playing an act from start to finish. I think it will be more fun that way. If I have to do pot smashing or chest runs day after day, I will pull out my hair.
leveling fixes suck tho. sorry i dont want to play the same easy shit for the 20th time just to have the character i want.
farming is one thing. leveling is a totally different story.
I guess you want an option where when you get to 60, they give you level 60's of all the other characters?
hell ya you know how much extra shit I would sell to people who are like "well I guess I have the char might as well put gear on it"
Luckily I got in an exploited on all my accounts to get a bunch of 60s in about 2hours each, still not as boring as playing the game, but very close.
Sounds like you're really enjoying Diablo 3
This is the guy who says the game is complete trash yet apparently has a ton of 60's and was trying to trade gold for D3 accounts
Yep and I did it all while catching up on my work, sleep, netflix and putting in 3 to 4 hours daily at the gym ^ ^
On June 10 2012 01:34 Chairman Ray wrote: I like the changes. Ideally, I want the best farming method to be just playing an act from start to finish. I think it will be more fun that way. If I have to do pot smashing or chest runs day after day, I will pull out my hair.
leveling fixes suck tho. sorry i dont want to play the same easy shit for the 20th time just to have the character i want.
farming is one thing. leveling is a totally different story.
I guess you want an option where when you get to 60, they give you level 60's of all the other characters?
hell ya you know how much extra shit I would sell to people who are like "well I guess I have the char might as well put gear on it"
Luckily I got in an exploited on all my accounts to get a bunch of 60s in about 2hours each, still not as boring as playing the game, but very close.
Sounds like you're really enjoying Diablo 3
This is the guy who says the game is complete trash yet apparently has a ton of 60's and was trying to trade gold for D3 accounts
Yep and I did it all while catching up on my work, sleep, netflix and putting in 3 to 4 hours daily at the gym ^ ^
On June 10 2012 01:34 Chairman Ray wrote: I like the changes. Ideally, I want the best farming method to be just playing an act from start to finish. I think it will be more fun that way. If I have to do pot smashing or chest runs day after day, I will pull out my hair.
leveling fixes suck tho. sorry i dont want to play the same easy shit for the 20th time just to have the character i want.
farming is one thing. leveling is a totally different story.
I guess you want an option where when you get to 60, they give you level 60's of all the other characters?
hell ya you know how much extra shit I would sell to people who are like "well I guess I have the char might as well put gear on it"
Luckily I got in an exploited on all my accounts to get a bunch of 60s in about 2hours each, still not as boring as playing the game, but very close.
Sounds like you're really enjoying Diablo 3
This is the guy who says the game is complete trash yet apparently has a ton of 60's and was trying to trade gold for D3 accounts
Yep and I did it all while catching up on my work, sleep, netflix and putting in 3 to 4 hours daily at the gym ^ ^
you are such an awesome bro, brah
Thanks, I enjoy my life too. Too bad my house boat gets shitty internet v_v
Blah, i think it will take me years to level my DH from 50 to 60 now, when you cant kulle it. :I I really like inferno, but all before that is kinda meh, at least when i have already done everything twice. :|
edit: Like its really hard to enjoy pre inferno levels, when its so boring. You cant die, if you play with both hands, or couple of rare occasions, so level 50->60 is just time consuming, nothing else. I doubt anyone leveled up their chars the normal way after a few weeks of the ladder in D2, and the game still worked out fine. Let people have a faster way to get to the endgame content, if you only make the endgame content (=items) interesting. At least in D2 you could get awesome drops even in normal, and start of mare. :#
On June 10 2012 01:34 Chairman Ray wrote: I like the changes. Ideally, I want the best farming method to be just playing an act from start to finish. I think it will be more fun that way. If I have to do pot smashing or chest runs day after day, I will pull out my hair.
leveling fixes suck tho. sorry i dont want to play the same easy shit for the 20th time just to have the character i want.
farming is one thing. leveling is a totally different story.
I guess you want an option where when you get to 60, they give you level 60's of all the other characters?
hell ya you know how much extra shit I would sell to people who are like "well I guess I have the char might as well put gear on it"
Luckily I got in an exploited on all my accounts to get a bunch of 60s in about 2hours each, still not as boring as playing the game, but very close.
Sounds like you're really enjoying Diablo 3
This is the guy who says the game is complete trash yet apparently has a ton of 60's and was trying to trade gold for D3 accounts
Yep and I did it all while catching up on my work, sleep, netflix and putting in 3 to 4 hours daily at the gym ^ ^
On June 10 2012 03:08 Gaslo wrote: Blah, i think it will take me years to level my DH from 50 to 60 now, when you cant kulle it. :I I really like inferno, but all before that is kinda meh, at least when i have already done everything twice. :|
edit: Like its really hard to enjoy pre inferno levels, when its so boring. You cant die, if you play with both hands, or couple of rare occasions, so that level 50->60 is just time consuming, nothing else. I doubt anyone leveled up their chars the normal way after a few weeks of the ladder in D2, and the game still worked out fine. Let people have a faster way to get to the endgame content, if you only make the endgame content (=items) interesting. At least in D2 you could get awesome drops even in normal, and start of mare. :#
Thats why selling leveling jobs is such good business, and with a simple to use set up you can level 3 characters at a time with 1 rusher, takes ~2hours to get them all to 60.
Sorry but the "fixes" are a joke. Blizzard fucks up Inferno and forced you to do things like that. You can't progress in Act2+ as Barb if you don't got like 3 Legendaries together with -25% Melee/Elitedmg reduction and ~1000 resist. Blizzard fucked this game up so bad.
Just don't touch the game until 1.0.3 - its just no fun at all right now, so bad!
I'm at a loss as to where to actually farm now. I never farmed vases/pots but i did hunt resplendent chests in act 3. Those have been nerfed as well. Any ideas of where I can actually farm now? It seems like every spot i can think of has been nerfed to hell.
On June 10 2012 03:36 Ozcollo wrote: I'm at a loss as to where to actually farm now. I never farmed vases/pots but i did hunt resplendent chests in act 3. Those have been nerfed as well. Any ideas of where I can actually farm now? It seems like every spot i can think of has been nerfed to hell.
Really depends on your class and gear level atm, and if you plan on playing or scripting, there are still plenty of 400-500k+/hour locations.
On June 10 2012 03:36 Ozcollo wrote: I'm at a loss as to where to actually farm now. I never farmed vases/pots but i did hunt resplendent chests in act 3. Those have been nerfed as well. Any ideas of where I can actually farm now? It seems like every spot i can think of has been nerfed to hell.
5 stack NV -> siegebreaker but actually kill the mobs instead of afking while Tyrael kills them You can make about 1mil/hour if your gear is good.
So....whats the use of having tyrael with you since he damages for 1k? lol
It defeats the whole purpose of him being with you...you know, actually helping in battle? :/ As someone said, "disable" him when you are dead, like your followers.
Uhm he's just a story progression part, I don't see why he would be supposed to help us in Inferno? I mean I considered this a slip on their side anyways.
Not sure about this but if you let Tyrael hits elites, unless they are vampiric, they won't restore to full health again after you are back (18+ sec revive time).
On June 10 2012 03:36 Ozcollo wrote: I'm at a loss as to where to actually farm now. I never farmed vases/pots but i did hunt resplendent chests in act 3. Those have been nerfed as well. Any ideas of where I can actually farm now? It seems like every spot i can think of has been nerfed to hell.
5 stack NV -> siegebreaker but actually kill the mobs instead of afking while Tyrael kills them You can make about 1mil/hour if your gear is good.
I'm a wizard with 49.5k Hit Points and 53k Damage. I'm reasonably geared I think. I hate to further bother but where do you usually start your run, the first bridge? Also, there are just some packs that I can't handle still, lol.
On June 10 2012 03:36 Ozcollo wrote: I'm at a loss as to where to actually farm now. I never farmed vases/pots but i did hunt resplendent chests in act 3. Those have been nerfed as well. Any ideas of where I can actually farm now? It seems like every spot i can think of has been nerfed to hell.
5 stack NV -> siegebreaker but actually kill the mobs instead of afking while Tyrael kills them You can make about 1mil/hour if your gear is good.
I'm a wizard with 49.5k Hit Points and 53k Damage. I'm reasonably geared I think. I hate to further bother but where do you usually start your run, the first bridge? Also, there are just some packs that I can't handle still, lol.
Take the last quest point "Kill Siegebreaker", you need to have killed him once to be able to do that. The waypoint just before siegebreaker will be available to you and then you just get 5 stacks in areas you feel most comfortable with.
On June 10 2012 03:36 Ozcollo wrote: I'm at a loss as to where to actually farm now. I never farmed vases/pots but i did hunt resplendent chests in act 3. Those have been nerfed as well. Any ideas of where I can actually farm now? It seems like every spot i can think of has been nerfed to hell.
5 stack NV -> siegebreaker but actually kill the mobs instead of afking while Tyrael kills them You can make about 1mil/hour if your gear is good.
I'm a wizard with 49.5k Hit Points and 53k Damage. I'm reasonably geared I think. I hate to further bother but where do you usually start your run, the first bridge? Also, there are just some packs that I can't handle still, lol.
You have the same stats as me basically. I start at Rakkis and backtrack to check for an elite pack and there's a dungeon there too that sometimes has one. Then I go forward from Rakkis to check for the underbridge. Check the keep level 1 for that chest, then down to level 2. In level 2 there is a 100% chest but it's in a random location. You can pick up all your remaining NV stacks there and hopefully the chest as well.
You just have to get lucky with drops doing act 3/4 runs. You can farm for 6 hours and get absolute shit. You can farm 1 hour, and find a 1.1k 700 lof one hander and make 20mil+. On average 10 hours should easily net you over 10mil gold as long as your luck isn't absolute shit, assuming your gear isn't complete shit.
On June 10 2012 05:25 snarl wrote: Do you guys usually skip elite Soul Ripper packs or what? those things just decimate me
I usually skip those. I can manage some of them if they havent teleport or fast. But I really need a lot of already cleared areas to do so and doorways to play with the bad pathfinding of the game.
On June 10 2012 03:36 Ozcollo wrote: I'm at a loss as to where to actually farm now. I never farmed vases/pots but i did hunt resplendent chests in act 3. Those have been nerfed as well. Any ideas of where I can actually farm now? It seems like every spot i can think of has been nerfed to hell.
5 stack NV -> siegebreaker but actually kill the mobs instead of afking while Tyrael kills them You can make about 1mil/hour if your gear is good.
That 1 mil is dependent on your drops and what the value will be if sold at AH, if ever sold.
On June 10 2012 03:36 Ozcollo wrote: I'm at a loss as to where to actually farm now. I never farmed vases/pots but i did hunt resplendent chests in act 3. Those have been nerfed as well. Any ideas of where I can actually farm now? It seems like every spot i can think of has been nerfed to hell.
5 stack NV -> siegebreaker but actually kill the mobs instead of afking while Tyrael kills them You can make about 1mil/hour if your gear is good.
That 1 mil is dependent on your drops and what the value will be if sold at AH, if ever sold.
Sure, everything in this game in dependent on RNG. 300% MF with 5 NV stacks. Also if you price your stuff correctly it will sell.
On June 10 2012 08:43 NotSorry wrote: oh yea 4hours at a bbq/pool party and still made over 6mil gold
Your name is fitting to brag about botting on TL.
Who said anything about botting? Botting is bad and wrong, I just play with my toes on multiple laptops while hanging with the ladies, figure 10toes, why not 10accounts.
Siegebreaker not worth it anymore imho. Go Cyadea/Azmdo run, two easy bosses for 4 guaranteed rares. If you don't hit 5 NV before Cyadea go Cellar lvl1, Rakki and Korsikk, there are usually champs there. Don't bother farm resplendent, they were all nerfed, at least the cellar, underbridge and ice cave/cave of frost ones. With ~170 mf champs drop a rare most of the time, they are worth it imho. Avoid places with Soul rippers, never worth it. Skip invulnerable packs. Not sure on Diablo farming, it seems to me the mobs there are much more annoying and Izual seems like a gigantic ass boss for runs. And drops don-t seems to be better.
I haven-t got anything decent in ages tho-. And i dunno why but my keyboard is fucked up lol.
yea for some reason Izual has extra shitty drops for a mid act boss. Siegebreaker such an easy kill if you're already gonna get 5 stacks and do the other two might as well take the 60-90 seconds to kill him and score some extra loot
On June 10 2012 08:43 NotSorry wrote: oh yea 4hours at a bbq/pool party and still made over 6mil gold
Your name is fitting to brag about botting on TL.
Who said anything about botting? Botting is bad and wrong, I just play with my toes on multiple laptops while hanging with the ladies, figure 10toes, why not 10accounts.
In this myth you've constructed are the ladies all over you for playing on 10 accounts at the same time or are you just hanging out with them?
On June 10 2012 08:43 NotSorry wrote: oh yea 4hours at a bbq/pool party and still made over 6mil gold
Your name is fitting to brag about botting on TL.
Who said anything about botting? Botting is bad and wrong, I just play with my toes on multiple laptops while hanging with the ladies, figure 10toes, why not 10accounts.
In this myth you've constructed are the ladies all over you for playing on 10 accounts at the same time or are you just hanging out with them?
We busy playing volleyball, just playing the accounts between passes.
On June 10 2012 08:43 NotSorry wrote: oh yea 4hours at a bbq/pool party and still made over 6mil gold
Your name is fitting to brag about botting on TL.
Who said anything about botting? Botting is bad and wrong, I just play with my toes on multiple laptops while hanging with the ladies, figure 10toes, why not 10accounts.
In this myth you've constructed are the ladies all over you for playing on 10 accounts at the same time or are you just hanging out with them?
We busy playing volleyball, just playing the accounts between passes.
You remind me of the trailer trash players from D2, bragging about their tppk kills on d2jsp. YTMND, salute. Are you on Diablo forums posting about your leet Starcraft skills too?
Any op shit or exploits left that you know of before blizz decides to take more of my enjoyment out of this game, pm me. Hey, might not be fair for those who didn't take advantage, but it was fun! Everything seems so watered down now...boring =(
This might widen the gap between the rich and poor...momentarily anyway ha
On June 10 2012 08:43 NotSorry wrote: oh yea 4hours at a bbq/pool party and still made over 6mil gold
Your name is fitting to brag about botting on TL.
Who said anything about botting? Botting is bad and wrong, I just play with my toes on multiple laptops while hanging with the ladies, figure 10toes, why not 10accounts.
In this myth you've constructed are the ladies all over you for playing on 10 accounts at the same time or are you just hanging out with them?
We busy playing volleyball, just playing the accounts between passes.
You remind me of the trailer trash players from D2, bragging about their tppk kills on d2jsp. YTMND, salute. Are you on Diablo forums posting about your leet Starcraft skills too?
They keep saying that they want don't want you running the same thing over and over. All I'm doing right now is 5 stack diablo. I cant do chests with my friends, i cant farm blues to salvage, i cant even do other bosses since they dont pay off. Acts 1, 2 and 3 are just filling my hard drive now.
And the dmg thing they said they changed, they probably fucked up, cause my barb is taking at least 30% more dmg somehow.
Imo ironically this fix which was supposed to deal with botters has either brought gold sellers more business or caused more non-botters to quit the game. Bots don't give a fuck that they're getting less gold, botters still earn more botting than not.
Gold find gear is completely useless now that Blizzard has made its stance clear on the "correct" way to farm, which is completely retarded. The developer should just set the conditions of play and victory, it shouldn't keep making changes to dictate the way a player does it, especially in what is essentially a single player game.
On June 10 2012 09:13 NotSorry wrote: yea for some reason Izual has extra shitty drops for a mid act boss. Siegebreaker such an easy kill if you're already gonna get 5 stacks and do the other two might as well take the 60-90 seconds to kill him and score some extra loot
No because you-d have to pass from the tower of the damned which has soulrippers gg. Two levels of them. Just no.
On June 10 2012 08:43 NotSorry wrote: oh yea 4hours at a bbq/pool party and still made over 6mil gold
Your name is fitting to brag about botting on TL.
Who said anything about botting? Botting is bad and wrong, I just play with my toes on multiple laptops while hanging with the ladies, figure 10toes, why not 10accounts.
In this myth you've constructed are the ladies all over you for playing on 10 accounts at the same time or are you just hanging out with them?
We busy playing volleyball, just playing the accounts between passes.
You remind me of the trailer trash players from D2, bragging about their tppk kills on d2jsp. YTMND, salute. Are you on Diablo forums posting about your leet Starcraft skills too?
I take it you got PK'd alot
Anyone who got pk'd deserved it. It's still sad and pathetic to complain about a game all day, while constantly playing and bragging to outsiders how you've broken it. Go raise your kids man, bet they eat well on forum gold.
On June 10 2012 09:36 S_SienZ wrote: Imo ironically this fix which was supposed to deal with botters has either brought gold sellers more business or caused more non-botters to quit the game. Bots don't give a fuck that they're getting less gold, botters still earn more botting than not.
People really quit the game because they're not "forced" to smash pots or click on the same chest over and over to stay competitive with people making money in the most efficient/boring way possible? If you take out boring, efficient methods of getting gold you deflate the economy and make it so actually playing the game gives you more purchasing power.
I bet more people quit the game due to blizzard waiting so long to fix this widely known exploits, now that they are at a point where it would take them many months to even years to even break even with what botters made in the first 3 weeks.
On June 10 2012 09:54 NotSorry wrote: I bet more people quit the game due to blizzard waiting so long to fix this widely known exploits, now that they are at a point where it would take them many months to even years to even break even with what botters made in the first 3 weeks.
This, IMO.
It's a shame that Blizz put themselves in an awkward position where they're really unable to reverse the damage that botters have done. We're only seeing the tip of the iceberg now--the brunt of it's going to come out with the RMAH.
As a barb geared just short of Act 2, this hotfix has made me quit until 1.0.3. Warden/butcher runs give me dismal gold and really god awful rares; I can kinda progress in Act 2 by skipping all champion packs (yay?); I don't particularly want to 'play' the AH (don't really have the starting money for it either). Farming pots, although boring (less if I watched SC2 streams simultaneously), was a good way to get money for upgrades.
Maybe there's an other solution I haven't thought of, and if so, I'd would love to hear it.
no wonder I got like a total of 500 gold from all the pots i smashed leading up to skeleton king .
What i think would be fair to everyone is just to reset everyone to 0 items, 0 gold after making every exploit fix possible. Right now those who managed to exploit all the earlier easy runs are so way ahead of the other players.
On June 10 2012 10:00 JeffBitches wrote: Well as for the people having "quit" the game...
As a barb geared just short of Act 2, this hotfix has made me quit until 1.0.3. Warden/butcher runs give me dismal gold and really god awful rares; I can kinda progress in Act 2 by skipping all champion packs (yay?); I don't particularly want to 'play' the AH (don't really have the starting money for it either). Farming pots, although boring (less if I watched SC2 streams simultaneously), was a good way to get money for upgrades.
Maybe there's an other solution I haven't thought of, and if so, I'd would love to hear it.
You're a Barb. Iskatu hasn't been nerfed yet, so you can still average between 500k-1mil an hour from Iskatu runs, depending on your luck.
And yes, Iskatu farming is possible on a Barb with A1/A2-level gear.
On June 10 2012 09:54 NotSorry wrote: I bet more people quit the game due to blizzard waiting so long to fix this widely known exploits, now that they are at a point where it would take them many months to even years to even break even with what botters made in the first 3 weeks.
I'll second this. Botters and exploiters pretty much ruined the game and market. At this point, i think blizzard should wipe everything ,before money auction house comes out, as soon as they remove all exploits even though I'm sure many people will be pissed. Either that or include a ladder system like d2 where it gets reset at time intervals.
On June 10 2012 09:54 NotSorry wrote: I bet more people quit the game due to blizzard waiting so long to fix this widely known exploits, now that they are at a point where it would take them many months to even years to even break even with what botters made in the first 3 weeks.
Only hope is for server wipes on SC accounts. I've heard that Blizzard did wipe servers before in diablo 2, though I don't remember it and can't seem to find any information about that. In any case, the RMAH date would seem like a logical point to perform such a wipe, effectively removing anyone gaining an unfair advantage via bots/hacks. And to be honest, I wouldn't mind replaying this game because that's what this game is about anyways. Any gold/items I found sucked anyways and used AH gear anyways.
On June 10 2012 09:54 NotSorry wrote: I bet more people quit the game due to blizzard waiting so long to fix this widely known exploits, now that they are at a point where it would take them many months to even years to even break even with what botters made in the first 3 weeks.
I'll second this. Botters and exploiters pretty much ruined the game and market. At this point, i think blizzard should wipe everything ,before money auction house comes out, as soon as they remove all exploits even though I'm sure many people will be pissed. Either that or include a ladder system like d2 where it gets reset at time intervals.
In fairness, even if they do include a Ladder, it would have to be after they clear up some more of the abusable stuff. There's still stuff that people are farming that they haven't nerfed yet.
I don't care about gold farming, I just want to be able to get good loots when I work my ass off to kill elites and bosses. Right now I just get garbage or 200K items when I need 5-10millions items. Am I really supposed to play the whole day doing siegebreaker to get 1 or 2 decent rares ? Wtf...
take this, fucking abusers. other ppl dont abuse every glitch they discover and kill elites and bosses the whole time, slowly crawling their way up... however, thats probably about 20% of the ppl?
On June 10 2012 10:13 KalWarkov wrote: take this, fucking abusers. other ppl dont abuse every glitch they discover and kill elites and bosses the whole time, slowly crawling their way up... however, thats probably about 20% of the ppl?
thank god there is hardcore.
You realize as a % of a whole, HC has even more abusers than SC
Maybe I'm looking at this the wrong way but since the majority of players don't use bots, wouldn't that keep prices low anyway despite there being tons of gold floating around? Botters will buy up the top ends items with super inflated prices, and even for that stuff I'd imagine its a pretty limited market of botters that can afford it, and eventually people will see no one can afford it and prices will lower after a while. For the mid to high end stuff prices should be fine.
Obviously someone who knows more about this sort of thing feel free to tell me why I'm wrong. For now I'm not too worried about the economy in this game.
If you watched that clip I just posted in the diablo 3 general discussion. You'd know the most hardcore botter won't actually get effected by these fix. So a wipe certainly not help either. 60 million gold per hour from 100 accounts, it's just crazy man.
There's no reason to hate on abusers when Blizzard's at fault for releasing a game full of exploits. The "abusers" didn't do anything against the rules of the game and you can't expect people to turn down an efficient way to play based on some stupidly conceived "right" methods.
As other people have suggested, given the damage botting and exploits have caused, it would be best to reset the whole mess after all the fixes have been ironed out, like they should have been in beta. But of course Blizzard wouldn't do that - owning up to your own incompetence is bad for PR, and they don't want to put up with the massive outcry that comes with deleting everybody's characters.
On June 10 2012 10:13 KalWarkov wrote: take this, fucking abusers. other ppl dont abuse every glitch they discover and kill elites and bosses the whole time, slowly crawling their way up... however, thats probably about 20% of the ppl?
thank god there is hardcore.
You realize as a % of a whole, HC has even more abusers than SC
i highly doubt this. especially because there is no real money AH planned for it.
On June 10 2012 10:24 Savant wrote: There's no reason to hate on abusers when Blizzard's at fault for releasing a game full of exploits. The "abusers" didn't do anything against the rules of the game and you can't expect people to turn down an efficient way to play based on some stupidly conceived "right" methods.
As other people have suggested, given the damage botting and exploits have caused, it would be best to reset the whole mess after all the fixes have been ironed out, like they should have been in beta. But of course Blizzard wouldn't do that - owning up to your own incompetence is bad for PR, and they don't want to put up with the massive outcry that comes with deleting everybody's characters.
there are ppl who are brave enough not to exploit those bugs. in my eyes, those guys are just abusive fuckers who destroy my enjoyment. rly hope blizzard fixes more and more exploits and wiped the ladder after that.
Curious question but CAN they even wipe the "ladder" (what ladder btw) in DIII? I must admit i haven't bothered reading the TOS, and I definitly don't intend to, but with the RMAH is it even possible to reset? Some people will obviously spend money on their gear (hopefully, otherwise that will have been a giant waste of ressources) so I'd imagine they will be pretty brassed off if Blizzard simply says, well let's start a new season everyone back to level 1.
On June 10 2012 10:00 JeffBitches wrote: Well as for the people having "quit" the game...
As a barb geared just short of Act 2, this hotfix has made me quit until 1.0.3. Warden/butcher runs give me dismal gold and really god awful rares; I can kinda progress in Act 2 by skipping all champion packs (yay?); I don't particularly want to 'play' the AH (don't really have the starting money for it either). Farming pots, although boring (less if I watched SC2 streams simultaneously), was a good way to get money for upgrades.
Maybe there's an other solution I haven't thought of, and if so, I'd would love to hear it.
You're a Barb. Iskatu hasn't been nerfed yet, so you can still average between 500k-1mil an hour from Iskatu runs, depending on your luck.
And yes, Iskatu farming is possible on a Barb with A1/A2-level gear.
this is done on inferno + gold find or just normal run with ur most powrful gear?
On June 10 2012 11:12 Tula wrote: Curious question but CAN they even wipe the "ladder" (what ladder btw) in DIII? I must admit i haven't bothered reading the TOS, and I definitly don't intend to, but with the RMAH is it even possible to reset? Some people will obviously spend money on their gear (hopefully, otherwise that will have been a giant waste of ressources) so I'd imagine they will be pretty brassed off if Blizzard simply says, well let's start a new season everyone back to level 1.
Blizzard has already said that there won't be a reset.
On June 10 2012 11:12 Tula wrote: Curious question but CAN they even wipe the "ladder" (what ladder btw) in DIII? I must admit i haven't bothered reading the TOS, and I definitly don't intend to, but with the RMAH is it even possible to reset? Some people will obviously spend money on their gear (hopefully, otherwise that will have been a giant waste of ressources) so I'd imagine they will be pretty brassed off if Blizzard simply says, well let's start a new season everyone back to level 1.
There is no ladder "yet". Not sure if they ever intend to create one. The RMAH is not out yet so people who have bought gold/gear have done so using third party sites which blizzard does not care for so it would be there own fault.
On June 10 2012 11:12 Tula wrote: Curious question but CAN they even wipe the "ladder" (what ladder btw) in DIII? I must admit i haven't bothered reading the TOS, and I definitly don't intend to, but with the RMAH is it even possible to reset? Some people will obviously spend money on their gear (hopefully, otherwise that will have been a giant waste of ressources) so I'd imagine they will be pretty brassed off if Blizzard simply says, well let's start a new season everyone back to level 1.
Blizzard has already said that there won't be a reset.
They said they don't intend to atm, but I'm sure they also did not intend for this level of abuse this early.
Fine don't do a wipe, just make a Ladder and give people an option to play on it or not. I bet the vast majority would move to the new ladder.
On June 10 2012 11:12 Tula wrote: Curious question but CAN they even wipe the "ladder" (what ladder btw) in DIII? I must admit i haven't bothered reading the TOS, and I definitly don't intend to, but with the RMAH is it even possible to reset? Some people will obviously spend money on their gear (hopefully, otherwise that will have been a giant waste of ressources) so I'd imagine they will be pretty brassed off if Blizzard simply says, well let's start a new season everyone back to level 1.
Blizzard has already said that there won't be a reset.
They said they don't intend to atm, but I'm sure they also did not intend for this level of abuse this early.
Fine don't do a wipe, just make a Ladder and give people an option to play on it or not. I bet the vast majority would move to the new ladder.
Yeah, make a "free for all" system where every current char is moved to. Start a ladder/season where everyone has to start from the beginning (no money, no chars, ... ). As soon as one season ends move every character to the "free for all" system (so you can keep playing those chars).
Personally, I'm slightly annoyed (not mad but crumpy^^) that I started a week late (stupid RL) and also rolled a monk 1st (now playing a DH - thank you Kulle!). Full immunity (SS), pre-maghda chests, oasis chests, other Act 3 & 4 stuff - missed all of it and people who "abused" those are so much ahead of my gearing progress. I'll never be able to catch up (unless I spend real money)
But I'm liking the group-dmg nerfs. Now my friends and me are actually able to play in a group (and not just farm chests^^).
On June 10 2012 11:12 Tula wrote: Curious question but CAN they even wipe the "ladder" (what ladder btw) in DIII? I must admit i haven't bothered reading the TOS, and I definitly don't intend to, but with the RMAH is it even possible to reset? Some people will obviously spend money on their gear (hopefully, otherwise that will have been a giant waste of ressources) so I'd imagine they will be pretty brassed off if Blizzard simply says, well let's start a new season everyone back to level 1.
Blizzard has already said that there won't be a reset.
They said they don't intend to atm, but I'm sure they also did not intend for this level of abuse this early.
Fine don't do a wipe, just make a Ladder and give people an option to play on it or not. I bet the vast majority would move to the new ladder.
Yeah, make a "free for all" system where every current char is moved to. Start a ladder/season where everyone has to start from the beginning (no money, no chars, ... ). As soon as one season ends move every character to the "free for all" system (so you can keep playing those chars).
Personally, I'm slightly annoyed (not mad but crumpy^^) that I started a week late (stupid RL) and also rolled a monk 1st (now playing a DH - thank you Kulle!). Full immunity (SS), pre-maghda chests, oasis chests, other Act 3 & 4 stuff - missed all of it and people who "abused" those are so much ahead of my gearing progress. I'll never be able to catch up (unless I spend real money)
But I'm liking the group-dmg nerfs. Now my friends and me are actually able to play in a group (and not just farm chests^^).
What do you mean ahead? There isn't some sort of race so why does it matter?
On June 10 2012 11:12 Tula wrote: Curious question but CAN they even wipe the "ladder" (what ladder btw) in DIII? I must admit i haven't bothered reading the TOS, and I definitly don't intend to, but with the RMAH is it even possible to reset? Some people will obviously spend money on their gear (hopefully, otherwise that will have been a giant waste of ressources) so I'd imagine they will be pretty brassed off if Blizzard simply says, well let's start a new season everyone back to level 1.
Blizzard has already said that there won't be a reset.
They said they don't intend to atm, but I'm sure they also did not intend for this level of abuse this early.
Fine don't do a wipe, just make a Ladder and give people an option to play on it or not. I bet the vast majority would move to the new ladder.
Yeah, make a "free for all" system where every current char is moved to. Start a ladder/season where everyone has to start from the beginning (no money, no chars, ... ). As soon as one season ends move every character to the "free for all" system (so you can keep playing those chars).
Personally, I'm slightly annoyed (not mad but crumpy^^) that I started a week late (stupid RL) and also rolled a monk 1st (now playing a DH - thank you Kulle!). Full immunity (SS), pre-maghda chests, oasis chests, other Act 3 & 4 stuff - missed all of it and people who "abused" those are so much ahead of my gearing progress. I'll never be able to catch up (unless I spend real money)
But I'm liking the group-dmg nerfs. Now my friends and me are actually able to play in a group (and not just farm chests^^).
What do you mean ahead? There isn't some sort of race so why does it matter?
Ahead means ahead. Never said anything about a race.
Serves them right for not doing a beta test. You'd think they'd have learned from D2 vanilla and Blackwing Lair. I think the C'thun encounter wasn't beta tested, either.
The sad part is, from a game systems design viewpoint, I think they did a lot of things right. This game improves upon D2 in a lot of ways. But without a beta test, the numbers were clearly flawed.
On June 10 2012 14:41 andrewlt wrote: Serves them right for not doing a beta test. You'd think they'd have learned from D2 vanilla and Blackwing Lair. I think the C'thun encounter wasn't beta tested, either.
The sad part is, from a game systems design viewpoint, I think they did a lot of things right. This game improves upon D2 in a lot of ways. But without a beta test, the numbers were clearly flawed.
Yeah game may be fine tuned in a few months but right now... /facepalm. And releasing an untested game like this don't go well with Blizzard legendary slowness at fixing/patching.
On June 11 2012 00:19 Silidons wrote: BWL and AQ40 were the 2 best raids of all time also.
AQ40 was definitly, but 2 encounters in it were definitly broken in a way that was not intended at release. At that time i was a Guild leader of one of the guilds which kept trying to find a way to kill c'thun but until they hotfixed him it was flat out impossible. After the fix 12 guilds killed him on the first evening.
The twin emperors were still broken at the time I quit Wow, but in a good way (you could kill them by sticking all DPS to the physical guy instead of trying to tank the magic guy with a Warlock which was the intended design).
Still the point remains, once upon a time Blizzard had a reputation of releasing the most polished games possible. Nowadays they seem to release beta versions after nearly a year of open/semi closed betas....
Maybe I'm on a lucky streak but it seems that item drop rates were improved byt a lot Oo... I get automatic rare from elites and i don't even put my MF stuff on. Weird.
Been doing Butcher runs for about a week now. 2 million gold richer and 12 legendary sitting in my stash. Is blizzard going to fix follower DPS? My templar has like 1900 strength on the stats part and a 500 dps one hander that I found but he still only does about 1.4k
On June 11 2012 03:46 Torte de Lini wrote: What's a good class to play with a Demon Hunter in Hardcore mode?
I'd prob pick a tank class. So barb/monk. Keep the mobs off the DH so they can sit in the back and pew pew.
Yeah, I heard that they don't mesh at all though o.o
I'm not sure how they wouldn't mesh? I don't group but I do play a barb. There's lots of defensive cooldowns you could use to keep the focus on you while the DH pew pews. I mean otherwise if you don't go melee then you're just gonna go another range and you both kite endlessly? I mean if that sounds fun go for it. To each their own.
On June 11 2012 04:40 Torte de Lini wrote: I hear that range together work because of how much CC they have with one another.
But there's not much CC that works on elites, even if it does work it's shorter stun time than it would be on a normal mob. And elites kill squishy ranges pretty quick even if you're playing defensive. Also if you're building defensive, b/c it's hardcore obv, you then have less damage. So then you and your range buddy get to kite endlessly to hopefully kill things before enrage. I dunno. It's not the type of playstyle I'd go for but that's why everyone can play the game their own way. Good luck with whatever you end up deciding.
Melee and ranged work well together because the melee sits there and things hit him while the ranged sits back (off screen of the mob) only having to dodge projectiles and specific affixes like mortar, arcane, frozen, etc. Every combo is doable as a melee and ranged given that both of you are appropriately geared. Playing as double ranged means you kill shit really fast but also means some packs simply are retarded / impossible (phase beasts, soul lashers, certain combos with fast / teleport) without being overgeared.
On June 11 2012 03:46 Torte de Lini wrote: What's a good class to play with a Demon Hunter in Hardcore mode?
I'd prob pick a tank class. So barb/monk. Keep the mobs off the DH so they can sit in the back and pew pew.
Yeah, I heard that they don't mesh at all though o.o
They don't mesh well in SC because of the ridiculous glass cannon builds, but they work pretty well in HC.
While you won't be able to tank every single mob (some will get loose), any semi viable HC DH build will be more than tough enough to simply tank loose mobs while keeping up the damage on the main bunch.
Whereas in SC, as soon as a single mob gets loose it's a nightmare for the DH because they have to kite it around to avoid getting 1 shotted.
EDIT: And as for CC, Blind is comparable to anything a ranged class can do, and Inner Sanctuary is nice (though it's been too fiddly for me to bother with as far as hell).
i always played well together with monks, as DH and as WD. if monk can't keep the mobs you kite, otherwise you just spew out your damage. especially the pulling together from monk for smaller AoE spells is really nice
If the authentication service is busy, the login checkbox will now wait at "Authenticating Credentials" until a player's login attempt can be processed. As a result, players should no longer encounter Error 37 when logging in.
Achievements have been granted to players who previously completed their objectives, but were not correctly awarded completion credit.
Bug Fixes
Fixed several crashes which occurred when clicking on player-generated item links in the game client
what a joke of a patch, nerfing attack speed, nerfing chest runs, and buffing bosses. yeah thanks blizz, what about the thousands of people who got their gear before these changes took effect?
I mean what the fuck is this? "In Inferno difficulty, Siegebreaker will now gain the Reflects Damage affix"
"Hmmm, wizards have it too easy vs. Siegebreaker, WHAT WOULD BE THE EASIEST WAY FOR US TO FIX THIS? OH HERE YOU GO, REFLECT DAMAGE!"
On June 19 2012 23:04 Derrida wrote: what a joke of a patch, nerfing attack speed, nerfing chest runs, and buffing bosses. yeah thanks blizz, what about the thousands of people who got their gear before these changes took effect?
I mean what the fuck is this? "In Inferno difficulty, Siegebreaker will now gain the Reflects Damage affix"
"Hmmm, wizards have it too easy vs. Siegebreaker, WHAT WOULD BE THE EASIEST WAY FOR US TO FIX THIS? OH HERE YOU GO, REFLECT DAMAGE!"
Lol, relax.
I'm really liking what they're doing with this patch.
The only thing I'm maybe not so happy about is the fact that bosses drop one less rare, with the buffing off the bosses.. I don't know. but all the rest looks really good.
On June 19 2012 23:10 Torte de Lini wrote: formatting this is going to be a bitch
Mind you, the link to the official blogpost at the top right of the page you linked turns up a 404. It says the patch is live on EU but my client still says 1.02.9991
glad i decided to play my monk now that nether tentacles only hit one monster per cast, that's a huge nerf isn't it? :o not speaking about the IAS. hate the glass cannon style anyway, and even with 600 all res and 38k you're still not good at survival in act2 not to speak of act3; doubtful that the "overall damage has been reduced" will change anything about that.
On June 19 2012 23:16 noD wrote: What i read from this patch " We are incapable of preventing bots, so we will make everything drop less"
They decreased the amount of stuff that drops from the enviroment but increased the quality of the items that drop from monsters in exchange so the total amount of items you find should be around the same. And a smart way to make bots less effective.
"Legendary items with the +Attack Speed bonus will now correctly provide a bonus to attack speed Please note that this fix will only affect new Legendary drops. Existing Legendary items will be addressed in future patch."
On June 19 2012 23:20 Derrida wrote: "Legendary items with the +Attack Speed bonus will now correctly provide a bonus to attack speed Please note that this fix will only affect new Legendary drops. Existing Legendary items will be addressed in future patch."
hahahahhaa, seriously?
rofl, didn't read that.. :D:D:D omg, what fail is that. can't be that hard to change existing items...
also did i miss something about WD pets? they suck so hard and needed to be adressed asap
To prevent monsters from being unintentionally kited into town from other areas of the game, portals have been placed at both ends of the bridge from New Tristram to The Weeping Willow. Towns have always been intended to be a safe haven from combat, and this change will help keep the denizens of New Tristram safe from the dangers that lurk beyond its walls.
The real-money auction house is now available for Chilean, Argentinian, and Brazilian currencies.
Battle.net General
Friends will now sort alphabetically by name within the Friends List, first by Real ID and then by BattleTag
The Quick Join menu will now also sort alphabetically by name, first by Real ID and then by BattleTag
Chat settings and preferences will now be saved whenever you log out
Reporting another player using the Report > Spam option will now mute that player for the duration of your gaming session
Bug Fixes
Using the /who command in a heavily populated chat channel should no longer cause the client to crash
The "Invite to Party" button should no longer become grayed-out if a player: Declines a party invite, Requests a party invite and then declines it, Accepts a party invite, but immediately then leaves the party
The character screen should now always display the display the correct act and quest information
If Real ID has been disabled for a Battle.net account, attempting to add a Real ID friend in Diablo III will now prompt the player with the following error message: "Battle.net is unable to add friends because you have Real ID disabled."
Classes Barbarian - Active Skills
Ignore Pain (Skill Rune: Contempt for Weakness): The amount of damage reflected will now cap at the player's maximum Life
Overpower (Skill Rune: Crushing Advance): The amount of damage reflected will now cap at the player's maximum Life, The tooltip has been updated to represent that both melee and ranged damage are reflected
Weapon Throw: Tooltip now displays the correct duration for how long a target will be slowed: "Hurl a throwing weapon at any enemy for 100% weapon damage and Slow the movement of the enemy by 60% for 1.5 seconds." (The functionality of the skill has not changed.)
- Passive Skills
Relentless: Now reduces the Fury cost of all skill by 75%, down from 100% (the 50% damage reduction remains unchanged)
Demon Hunter - Active Skills
Cluster Arrow (Skill Rune: Dazzling Arrow): Tooltip now displays the correct type of weapon damage dealt by Dazzling Arrow: "Enemies hit by grenades have a 55% chance to be stunned for 2 seconds and changes the damage to Physical." (The functionality of the skill has not changed.)
Grenades (Skill Rune: Stun Grenades): Tooltip now displays the correct duration for how long a target will be stunned: "Hurl grenades that have a 25% chance to Stun enemies for 1.5 seconds." (The functionality of the skill has not changed.)
- Bug Fixes
Caltrops (Skill Rune: Jagged Spikes): Effect will now only stack up to 10 times on a single target
Elemental Arrow (Skill Rune: Nether Tentacles): Tentacles will now only hit each target once
Monk General Monks can now use spears, two-handed weapons, and two-handed swords Active Skills Serenity Skill Rune – Instant Karma The amount of damage reflected will now cap at the player's maximum Life Seven-Sided Strike Skill Rune - Sustained Attack Tooltip has been updated for clarity: "Reduces the cooldown of Seven-Sided Strike to 23 seconds." (The functionality of the skill has not changed.) Mantra of Retribution Damage will now cap based on the maximum Life of the target Bug Fixes Near Death Experience Fatal damage absorbed by Serenity will no longer trigger Near Death Experience Witch Doctor Active Skills Summon Zombie Dogs Skill Rune – Leeching Beasts Tooltip has been updated for clarity: "Your Zombie Dogs heal 50% of the damage they deal as Life divided evenly between themselves and you." (The functionality of the skill has not changed.) Wizard Active Skills Diamond Skill Skill Rune – Mirror Skin The amount of damage reflected will now cap at the amount of damage absorbed by Diamond Skin Magic Weapon When activated, a buff icon will now appear that displays the amount of time remaining Meteor Skill Rune - Star Pact Now deals damage as Arcane instead of Fire Passive Skills Paralysis Tooltip now displays the correct duration for how long a target will be stunned: "Lightning damage dealt to enemies has up to a 8% chance to Stun the target for 1.5 seconds." (The functionality of the skill has not changed.)
Items
General + Attack Speed bonus values on weapons and armor have been reduced by 50% This change does not apply to quivers High-end items (items level 61-63) will now drop in all Acts of Inferno and Acts III and IV of Hell difficulty The new approximate drop rates are as follows: Hell - Act III and Act IV iLvl 61: 9% iLvl 62: 1.9% iLvl 63: 0% Inferno - Act I iLvl 61: 17.7% iLvl 62: 7.9% iLvl 63: 2.0% Inferno - Act II iLvl 61: 18.6% iLvl 62: 12.4% iLvl 63: 4.1% Inferno - Act III and Act IV iLvl 61: 24.1% iLvl 62: 16.1% iLvl 63: 8.0% Please see the Patch 1.0.3 Design Preview for more information and specific details Repair costs have been increased for item levels between 53 and 63 Magic Find will no longer be considered when looting objects in the environment such as chests, barrels, vases, pots, and corpses The item quality of all components needed to craft the Staff of Herding, as well as the Staff of Herding itself, have been changed from Common to Legendary (i.e. their item names will appear orange in color) The Staff of Herding can no longer be salvaged or dropped Crafted items that are dropped on the ground due to a player’s inventory being full can no longer be seen or picked up by other players Unique monsters in Hell and Inferno difficulty are no longer guaranteed to drop two Magic items when slain Weapon racks will no longer drop weapons 100% of the time Destructible objects no longer have a chance to drop items, and will only have a small chance to drop gold when destroyed Weapons and Armor "Balanced" superior items (i.e. Balanced Short Sword) will now grant a percent attack speed increase that only affects the weapon itself, rather than a flat increase to attacks per second that affected both equipped weapons when dual-wielding Crowd Control Reduction from items and skills will now reduce the percentage value of Slow, Chill, and Attack Speed debuffs rather than reducing how long the debuff lasts For example: previously, if you were debuffed by a 60% slow that lasted for 2 seconds while wearing gear that provides 20% Crowd Control Reduction, your movement speed would be reduced by 60%, but only for 1.6 seconds. Now, the same amount of Crowd Control Reduction will reduce the Slow effect to 48%, but the effect will remain for the full 2 second duration. Manticore now has one additional bonus affix User Interface Minimum damage and Maximum damage values will now display separately in an item's tooltip (i.e. "+2-4 Damage" will now display as "+2 Minimum Damage” and “+2 Maximum Damage") Tooltips for items on the ground will now show comparison stats Resist values will now be taken into effect when calculating the Protection comparison stat (the Protection value is an average protection estimate of all your resists) When comparing a two-handed weapon against two currently-equipped one-handed weapons, the game will now simulate the removal of both one-handed weapons (instead of simply removing the main-hand weapon, which resulted in an inaccurate comparison) When selling items to a vendor, the most recently sold items will now always display at the bottom of the Buyback tab Bug Fixes Items level 50 and above will now display their item level in the tooltip Damage Over Time (DoT) skills will now properly benefit from items with the +Critical Chance affix Legendary items with the +Attack Speed bonus will now correctly provide a bonus to attack speed Please note that this fix will only affect new Legendary drops. Existing Legendary items will be addressed in future patch. Players wearing +Life on Kill items should no longer receive a benefit from this affix when "killing" friendly monsters (e.g. when a witch doctor re-summons a Spider Queen while another Spider Queen is still active) Fixed a bug with linking items with socketed gems in chat Fixed a bug where vendors would occasionally not have any items for sale Fixed a bug where selling more than 12 items to a vendor and then buying back 1 of those items could cause multiple items to disappear from the Buyback tab Fixed a bug where swapping a 1-slot item (i.e. a ring) with 2-slot item (i.e. a weapon) in the second or third tab of a player’s stash would sometimes cause the 2-slot item to be filtered incorrectly to the first tab Fixed a bug that was causing Collector's Edition dyes to sell for the same price regardless of stack size
Crafting
General The gold and material crafting costs for all items level 1-59 have been reduced by 50% to 75% Blacksmith The gold cost to level the Blacksmith has been reduced by 50% The number of Pages of Blacksmithing, Tomes of Blacksmithing, or Tomes of Secrets required to level the Blacksmith has been reduced Base levels now require 1 page/tome, down from 5 Milestone levels now require 2 pages/tomes, down from 5 The number of Pages of Blacksmithing and Tomes of Blacksmithing required to craft items level 1-59 has been reduced Items with 3 affixes no longer require Pages of Blacksmithing or Tomes of Blacksmithing to craft The gold cost of crafting items with 4 affixes and 5 affixes (including items in Inferno difficulty) has been reduced Weapon crafting costs have been reduced The chance for level 60 items to produce Legendary crafting materials when salvaged has been reduced Jeweler The gold and material cost to combine gems ranks 2-8 has been reduced Combinations for these ranks now only require 2 gems, down from 3 The gold cost to combine each rank of gems is now as follows: Rank 2 - Flawed: 10 gold (down from 500 gold) Rank 3 - Regular: 25 gold (down from 750 gold) Rank 4 - Flawless: 40 gold (down from 1250 gold) Rank 5 - Perfect: 55 gold (down from 2000 gold) Rank 6 - Radiant: 70 gold (down from 3500 gold) Rank 7 - Square: 85 gold (down from 7500 gold) Rank 8 - Flawless Square: 100 gold (down from 20,000 gold)
Followers
General Bug Fixes Fixed a bug where the maximum Life of your followers was being displayed as different values in different parts of the game UI Enchantress Skills Mass Control Radius reduced from 15 yards to 8 yards If Enchantress also has Reflect Missiles trained, Mass Control will no longer accidentally hex the player when both skills are activated Skill will now correctly target enemies in all circumstances
Bosses
General Bosses have had their pathing improved The quality of the item for the fourth stack of Nephalem Valor from bosses has been slightly reduced Skeleton King Abilities Will now summon Skeletal Archers in Hell and Inferno difficulties The Warden (mini-boss) General Now has Fast and Molten affixes, in addition to Jailer In Inferno difficulty, the Warden will also gain the Desecrator affix Butcher Bug Fixes Fixed an issue where the corner panel fires in the Chamber of Suffering were doing twice as much damage as intended Ghom Abilities Gas Cloud Radius of Gas Cloud has been slightly reduced Slowing effect has been removed The amount of damage dealt by Gas Cloud when first entering the cloud has been reduced, but the amount of damage incurred for remaining in the cloud has been increased In Inferno difficulty, Gas Clouds will last longer, spawn 2 at a time, and (after 4 minutes) spawn more quickly Maghda Bug Fixes Punish Dust projectiles can no longer be reflected Zoltun Kulle General Zoltun Kulle will now enrage in Inferno difficulty after 3 minutes, using his Ceiling Collapse ability more often and for much higher damage Abilities Ceiling Collapse Can now be cast at a player from any range Fireball Fireball attack now moves slower Can now be cast at a player from any range Teleport Will now Teleport and run away from the player less often Will now occasionally Teleport to the player Belial General Belial will now enrage in Inferno difficulty after 3 minutes in his final phase, increasing the number of green pools dropped across the entire encounter platform Bug Fixes Fixed a bug that was causing Belial to use his breath attack away from the player rather than towards the player under certain circumstances Siegebreaker General Overall damage has been reduced No longer vulnerable to Confuse and Charm effects Will now drop a health globe every 25% health mark (i.e. at 75%, 50%, and 25% health) Now enrages after 4 minutes In Inferno difficulty, Siegebreaker will now gain the Reflects Damage affix Cydaea Abilities Spiderlings Spiderlings will now have an easier time hitting players, but their damage has been reduced by 20% to compensate In Inferno difficulty, Spiderlings will now live longer, be more spread out, and (after 4 minutes) spawn more often Rakanoth General In Inferno difficulty, Rakanoth will now become much more aggressive after 3 minutes Izual General Health pool has been increased The number of Oppressors that join the fight has been reduced from 4 to 2 Will no longer target Followers or Tyrael as frequently Abilities Base Attacks Base attack damage has been lowered No longer does Cold damage on top of base attacks Charge Charge damage has been reduced Knockback has been removed Will Charge slightly more often, but will only target players Frozen Bombs Frozen Bomb damage has been reduced Bombs will now explode faster Only 8 Bombs will now spawn around the player rather than 12 Bombs will spawn at Izual's feet less often Frost Explosion Frost Explosion damage has been reduced by 70% Duration of freeze has been increased Damage dealt to players while frozen will now break the effect Players can now use defensive cooldown while frozen Players can no longer avoid being frozen by doing high amounts of amount to Izual Bug Fixes Izual will no longer spawn twice if a player skips his introductory cut-scene Diablo Bug Fixes Damage Over Time (DoT) effects will now be properly cancelled when Diablo becomes invisible and casts Shadow Clones in Phase Two Diablo "Stomp" ability is now correctly classified as a debuff instead of a buff Fixed a bug that was causing pets to not attack Shadow Clones
Monsters
General Champions, Rares, and Uniques have had their pathing improved Elite packs (Champion/Rare) now drop an additional item for players with 5 stacks of Nephalem Valor, which is guaranteed to be of Rare quality Damage from monsters in Acts II, III, and IV in Inferno difficulty has been reduced Colossal Golgor base damage has been reduced Herald of Pestilence tentacle attack damage has been reduced Soul Ripper and Soul Lasher damage has been reduced and both monsters will now run away less often Wasps in Act II, Mage Constructs in Act II, and Winged Mollocks in Acts III and IV will now run away less Succubus monsters will now run away less and for a shorter distance The health pools of Woodwraiths in the Highlands now match the health pools of Woodwraiths in the Fields of Misery Lacuni and Scavenger Rares and and Champions will now un-burrow when called by their allies Bloodclan Warriors no longer knockback when buffed and attack slightly slower Morlu no longer have the Invulnerable Minions, Health Link, or Fire Chains affixes Plagued, Arcane Enchanted, and Electrified monsters no longer have resistance to Poison, Arcane, and Lightning damage (respectively) Leaders of Invulnerable Minions packs have had their health pools reduced Mortar monsters can now hurl projectiles farther, but their minimum range has also been increased by 100% Bug Fixes Interrupting a monster attack before it lands will now properly trigger its cooldown Treasure Goblins will now drop gold piles for all nearby players Lacuni Warrior Rares and Champions will now reset their enrage timer correctly in Inferno difficulty The Succubus "Blood Star" debuff will no longer affect the player if the damage from the projectile is dodged/blocked/etc The damage from the Succubus “Blood Star” debuff will now scale based on the current cost of a player's skill, even if the cost is reduced by items or skill runes Monsters with the Extra Health affix should no longer gain more health every time players leave and join the game Monsters with the Reflects Damage affix will no longer reflect Follower damage back to the player Monsters with the Health Link and Knockback affixes will no longer knockback friendly monsters Fixed a bug that was causing Champion Wallers to occasionally create walls at their location rather than the player's location Fixed a bug where Sandwasp projectiles could sometimes become invisible
Bug Fixes
General The experience bar for characters at level cap on a Guest Pass account will now display 0/0 experience. If the account holder upgrades to the full game, their characters will be at 0/41000 experience towards the next level. The speed of the animation that plays when resurrecting another players should no longer scale with your attack speed Attempting to cast a skill while spamming the Town Portal hot key will now correctly interrupt the Town Portal cast and animation Players who use Town Portal while in a tar pit will no longer keep the tar pit debuff after being teleported It is no longer possible for players in Hell difficulty to skip to Inferno difficulty by creating and leaving Public Games It is no longer possible to prevent character death in a single-player game by pausing the game in one game client and then logging into the same account from a different game client Fixed a bug where The Lyceum in the Southern Highlands was not appearing Fixed a bug where players could switch their offerings in the Trade window right before clicking "Accept" and, due to high latency, the game would not always be able to verify that both players were accepting the same offerings Fixed a bug that was allowing players to temporarily pick up items that belonged to another account Fixed a bug that was causing players to become stuck when using a banner to port to another player that was in an "un-walkable" location (i.e. to a barbarian in the middle of performing Leap) Fixed a position desync bug (aka "rubberbanding") that could happen when some movement skills (Strafe, Whirlwind, Tempest Rush) ended because the player ran out of the appropriate resource Fixed several issues where a player's character would get stuck or "rubberband" while moving if their movement speed was slowed in any way Several performance improvements have been made to both the PC and Mac client Auction House Item tooltips in the auction house will now correctly reflect stat bonuses provided by socketed gems Items with class-specific affixes should now display the class restriction properly It should no longer be possible for players to purchase a stack of items so large that it cannot be sent to their stash The data displayed in each auction house tab should now properly reset when logging out
In cooperative games, monster damage will no longer increase when additional players join the game (Please note that monster health will still scale based on the number of players in a party).
Bug Fixes
Tyrael no longer has collision when he is your active follower
Pots of ashes in Act I and vases in Act IV will now drop less gold when destroyed
Fixed a bug where players could turn in the same quest repeatedly and always receive rewards as though they were completing the quest for the first time
On June 19 2012 23:20 Derrida wrote: "Legendary items with the +Attack Speed bonus will now correctly provide a bonus to attack speed Please note that this fix will only affect new Legendary drops. Existing Legendary items will be addressed in future patch."
hahahahhaa, seriously?
rofl, didn't read that.. :D:D:D omg, what fail is that. can't be that hard to change existing items...
also did i miss something about WD pets? they suck so hard and needed to be adressed asap
I'm assuming they're 2 separate fixes. The fix they did just changes the affix that spawns on dropped items (probably swapping it to the working affix). To fix old legendaries, they'd have to go back and clean the database, which they probably want to sync with some other form of significant database maintainance, so that they share the same downtime.
On June 19 2012 23:31 Nizaris wrote: ^^ about damn time DHs get hit by the nerf bat.
We stil can't cancel our auctions anytime? (
Well, it was nice to clear butcher in half the time it took my wizard to do so. I don't get wy they are calling it a bug fix. It's clearly a nerf because of course 1 tentacle will proc multiple times on a huge enemy especially if an enemy is dumb enough to walk in the direction it is traveling. At the very least it should proc 2 times, once for entry wound and once for exit.
On June 19 2012 23:04 Derrida wrote: what a joke of a patch, nerfing attack speed, nerfing chest runs, and buffing bosses. yeah thanks blizz, what about the thousands of people who got their gear before these changes took effect?
I mean what the fuck is this? "In Inferno difficulty, Siegebreaker will now gain the Reflects Damage affix"
"Hmmm, wizards have it too easy vs. Siegebreaker, WHAT WOULD BE THE EASIEST WAY FOR US TO FIX THIS? OH HERE YOU GO, REFLECT DAMAGE!"
Personally, I'm fine wint all the changes. I'm still probably not going to play that much unless they do a reset/introduce ladder though.
On June 19 2012 23:37 Doraemon wrote: Mortar monsters can now hurl projectiles farther, but their minimum range has also been increased by 100%
man, serious? lol
It's because by design, Mortar was supposed to be an anti-Ranged affix, but in practice, the minimum range was so low that melee got hit just as hard, or even harder because the monsters were almost always spread out enough that while you could be in melee range of one monster, you were in mortar range of every other minion/rare.
On June 19 2012 23:04 Derrida wrote: what a joke of a patch, nerfing attack speed, nerfing chest runs, and buffing bosses. yeah thanks blizz, what about the thousands of people who got their gear before these changes took effect?
I mean what the fuck is this? "In Inferno difficulty, Siegebreaker will now gain the Reflects Damage affix"
"Hmmm, wizards have it too easy vs. Siegebreaker, WHAT WOULD BE THE EASIEST WAY FOR US TO FIX THIS? OH HERE YOU GO, REFLECT DAMAGE!"
Personally, I'm fine wint all the changes. I'm still probably not going to play that much unless they do a reset/introduce ladder though.
On June 19 2012 23:37 Doraemon wrote: Mortar monsters can now hurl projectiles farther, but their minimum range has also been increased by 100%
man, serious? lol
It's because by design, Mortar was supposed to be an anti-Ranged affix, but in practice, the minimum range was so low that melee got hit just as hard, or even harder because the monsters were almost always spread out enough that while you could be in melee range of one monster, you were in mortar range of every other minion/rare.
On June 19 2012 23:39 TheYango wrote: You say that like the ranged classes don't need a nerf.
Not vs. mortar they don't in my opinion.
Meh, Mortar's not really that bad unless it's paired with a CC affix (Vortex or Jailer), and even then, the change won't make a difference for Ranged, because the range extension is going to be outside of Vortex/Jailer range.
On June 19 2012 23:43 NEOtheONE wrote: You are fine with taking reflect damage on siegebreaker!?!? Reflect damage is the single most annoying affix for ranged (when by itself).
Reflects Damage punishes ranged classes who do not prepare alternate pieces of life on hit gear to fight them. The combined gold cost of having both a normal set, and alternate life on hit pieces for fighting Reflects Damage is still probably lower than the cost required for melees to progress similar content.
It's also probably in place to interact with the Enrage timer--seeing as without something to slow down ranged classes, the enrage timer on Siegebreaker would only ever be a problem for melees.
On June 19 2012 23:04 Derrida wrote: what a joke of a patch, nerfing attack speed, nerfing chest runs, and buffing bosses. yeah thanks blizz, what about the thousands of people who got their gear before these changes took effect?
I mean what the fuck is this? "In Inferno difficulty, Siegebreaker will now gain the Reflects Damage affix"
"Hmmm, wizards have it too easy vs. Siegebreaker, WHAT WOULD BE THE EASIEST WAY FOR US TO FIX THIS? OH HERE YOU GO, REFLECT DAMAGE!"
Personally, I'm fine wint all the changes. I'm still probably not going to play that much unless they do a reset/introduce ladder though.
On June 19 2012 23:37 Doraemon wrote: Mortar monsters can now hurl projectiles farther, but their minimum range has also been increased by 100%
man, serious? lol
It's because by design, Mortar was supposed to be an anti-Ranged affix, but in practice, the minimum range was so low that melee got hit just as hard, or even harder because the monsters were almost always spread out enough that while you could be in melee range of one monster, you were in mortar range of every other minion/rare.
On June 19 2012 23:39 Derrida wrote:
On June 19 2012 23:37 Doraemon wrote: Mortar monsters can now hurl projectiles farther, but their minimum range has also been increased by 100%
man, serious? lol
guess they couldn't think of buffing melee's vs mortar without nerfing range classes?
You say that like the ranged classes don't need a nerf.
You are fine with taking reflect damage on siegebreaker!?!? Reflect damage is the single most annoying affix for ranged (when by itself).
Also, giving the Warden fast, desecrator, and molten is some serious bullshit.
Agreed, but it should be fine if Warden's HP is not buffed. He was very squishy.
All things aside, did they really not test the game with HIGH END gear and different combination of talents? This attack speed, reflect damage, and nether tentacle changes just shows poor game design imho.
On June 19 2012 23:04 Derrida wrote: what a joke of a patch, nerfing attack speed, nerfing chest runs, and buffing bosses. yeah thanks blizz, what about the thousands of people who got their gear before these changes took effect?
I mean what the fuck is this? "In Inferno difficulty, Siegebreaker will now gain the Reflects Damage affix"
"Hmmm, wizards have it too easy vs. Siegebreaker, WHAT WOULD BE THE EASIEST WAY FOR US TO FIX THIS? OH HERE YOU GO, REFLECT DAMAGE!"
Personally, I'm fine wint all the changes. I'm still probably not going to play that much unless they do a reset/introduce ladder though.
On June 19 2012 23:37 Doraemon wrote: Mortar monsters can now hurl projectiles farther, but their minimum range has also been increased by 100%
man, serious? lol
It's because by design, Mortar was supposed to be an anti-Ranged affix, but in practice, the minimum range was so low that melee got hit just as hard, or even harder because the monsters were almost always spread out enough that while you could be in melee range of one monster, you were in mortar range of every other minion/rare.
On June 19 2012 23:39 Derrida wrote:
On June 19 2012 23:37 Doraemon wrote: Mortar monsters can now hurl projectiles farther, but their minimum range has also been increased by 100%
man, serious? lol
guess they couldn't think of buffing melee's vs mortar without nerfing range classes?
You say that like the ranged classes don't need a nerf.
You are fine with taking reflect damage on siegebreaker!?!? Reflect damage is the single most annoying affix for ranged (when by itself).
Also, giving the Warden fast, desecrator, and molten is some serious bullshit.
Agreed, but it should be fine if his HP is not buffed. He was very squishy.
Yeah, that was the only saving grace about this. I've been starting him by laying caltrops already, so I guess now they are mandatory instead of something I just do.
And on the note of caltrops, I do understand that the Jagged rune was bugged. I watched the butcher lose 1/3 of his HP just by walking through my caltrops and I couldn't help but think that can't be right.
On June 19 2012 23:39 TheYango wrote: You say that like the ranged classes don't need a nerf.
Not vs. mortar they don't in my opinion.
Meh, Mortar's not really that bad unless it's paired with a CC affix (Vortex or Jailer), and even then, the change won't make a difference for Ranged, because the range extension is going to be outside of Vortex/Jailer range.
On June 19 2012 23:43 NEOtheONE wrote: You are fine with taking reflect damage on siegebreaker!?!? Reflect damage is the single most annoying affix for ranged (when by itself).
Reflects Damage punishes ranged classes who do not prepare alternate pieces of life on hit gear to fight them. The combined gold cost of having both a normal set, and alternate life on hit pieces for fighting Reflects Damage is still probably lower than the cost required for melees to progress similar content.
I can imagine this already:
Mortar now reaches so far that you can't even hit them offscreen, but if you go closer to deal damage, get hit by jailer/vortex.
Or the mortar guy just has fast then, lol. 25% movespeed or reload.
I guess I am not playing D3 anymore, or rolling a new character, maybe time to play My HC barb. (i have DH) They nerfed every peice of gear I have and then buffed every enemy I kill. seige breaker will now be undoable.
I hated glass cannon style but it was the only way to play demonhunter, now it seems I will have to try and switch 100% of my gear to a more tank style which is dissapointing. Also sad that they could change IAS on every item but not fix it on my Boj anglers or Inna's fury.
On June 19 2012 23:39 TheYango wrote: You say that like the ranged classes don't need a nerf.
Not vs. mortar they don't in my opinion.
Meh, Mortar's not really that bad unless it's paired with a CC affix (Vortex or Jailer), and even then, the change won't make a difference for Ranged, because the range extension is going to be outside of Vortex/Jailer range.
On June 19 2012 23:43 NEOtheONE wrote: You are fine with taking reflect damage on siegebreaker!?!? Reflect damage is the single most annoying affix for ranged (when by itself).
Reflects Damage punishes ranged classes who do not prepare alternate pieces of life on hit gear to fight them. The combined gold cost of having both a normal set, and alternate life on hit pieces for fighting Reflects Damage is still probably lower than the cost required for melees to progress similar content.
I can imagine this already:
Mortar now reaches so far that you can't even hit them offscreen, but if you go closer to deal damage, get hit by jailer/vortex.
Or the mortar guy just has fast then, lol. 25% movespeed or reload.
Well, as you were already borderline getting hit offscreen before they made it worse. Now you will for sure.
On June 19 2012 23:04 Derrida wrote: what a joke of a patch, nerfing attack speed, nerfing chest runs, and buffing bosses. yeah thanks blizz, what about the thousands of people who got their gear before these changes took effect?
I mean what the fuck is this? "In Inferno difficulty, Siegebreaker will now gain the Reflects Damage affix"
"Hmmm, wizards have it too easy vs. Siegebreaker, WHAT WOULD BE THE EASIEST WAY FOR US TO FIX THIS? OH HERE YOU GO, REFLECT DAMAGE!"
Personally, I'm fine wint all the changes. I'm still probably not going to play that much unless they do a reset/introduce ladder though.
On June 19 2012 23:37 Doraemon wrote: Mortar monsters can now hurl projectiles farther, but their minimum range has also been increased by 100%
man, serious? lol
It's because by design, Mortar was supposed to be an anti-Ranged affix, but in practice, the minimum range was so low that melee got hit just as hard, or even harder because the monsters were almost always spread out enough that while you could be in melee range of one monster, you were in mortar range of every other minion/rare.
On June 19 2012 23:37 Doraemon wrote: Mortar monsters can now hurl projectiles farther, but their minimum range has also been increased by 100%
man, serious? lol
guess they couldn't think of buffing melee's vs mortar without nerfing range classes?
You say that like the ranged classes don't need a nerf.
ahhh. i read mortar as 100% increase in minimum damage and went WTFFFF. getting late here! but good to see it was range and not damage
would be interested to see the actual damage reduction from act2-4
my wiz can clean out a butcher run pretty quickly, but struggling a bit to do gnom runs. now that there is a chance to get i63 in act1 i'm tempted to go back there. what you guys think?
I don't see how anyone can have a problem with Reflects Damage on Siegebreaker. Without it, Siegebreaker is virtually a completly non-interactive encounter for ranged--unless you somehow let yourself get hit by his charge, there is absolutely no chance of ever taking damage on him in reasonable situations.
He was essentially a fat treasure goblin that dropped bonus rares for Neph stacks, and didn't time out if you didn't kill him fast enough.
With Reflects Damage and Enrage, he's at least a gear check, which, while far from being interesting, is still a massive improvement.
EDIT: Fast or Teleporter might have been more interesting than Reflects Damage, but also would look really weird in game.
You've clearly never played a ranged or with a ranged since reflect damage is the worse affix for them. They basically kill themselves in like 5 seconds.
On June 19 2012 23:52 TheYango wrote: I don't see how anyone can have a problem with Reflects Damage on Siegebreaker. Without it, Siegebreaker is virtually a completly non-interactive encounter for ranged--unless you somehow let yourself get hit by his charge, there is absolutely no chance of ever taking damage on him in reasonable situations.
He was essentially a fat treasure goblin that dropped bonus rares for Neph stacks, and didn't time out if you didn't kill him fast enough.
With Reflects Damage and Enrage, he's at least a gear check, which, while far from being interesting, is still a massive improvement.
Yea, it's funny with him, IF you ever took damage as ranged from him (on inferno), it meant reload >_> coz you just got 1 hit.
So now it's reflect damage with a time limit, I guess hp/S is the new goto stat o/ I mean, you couldn't dps the bastard as wizard with pretty much anything but hydra/blizzard + the very occasional signature/orb after he charged.
Oh and Siegebreaker is quite fast as it is, don't give him fast affix for god's sake :x At what point should the wizard then even pretend to dps it? Then it would certainly be 100% hydra to kill it.
On June 19 2012 23:55 skyR wrote: You've clearly never played a ranged or with a ranged since reflect damage is the worse affix for them. They basically kill themselves in like 5 seconds.
I've been doing Siegebreaker runs on my Wizard for like a week now. I've had trouble with Reflects Damage, but I assumed it was just a gearing issue due to not having an alternate LoH set to mitigate Reflects Damage, seeing as that's what I've seen more geared Wizards do and not have as much issue with it.
On June 19 2012 23:49 kanada wrote: I guess I am not playing D3 anymore, or rolling a new character, maybe time to play My HC barb. (i have DH) They nerfed every peice of gear I have and then buffed every enemy I kill. seige breaker will now be undoable.
I hated glass cannon style but it was the only way to play demonhunter, now it seems I will have to try and switch 100% of my gear to a more tank style which is dissapointing. Also sad that they could change IAS on every item but not fix it on my Boj anglers or Inna's fury.
Who cares about Siegebreaker. A1/A2 will be way more efficient to farm with the drop rate buffs anyway.
The people who complain about Reflect Damage on the Siegebreaker are probably mostly those low armor/def/hp glass canons that farm Lootbreaker like no morning, the people that are supposed to be hit by this very change.
None of us Barbarians etc. will feel bad for you guys having to get at least some resistance now.
On June 19 2012 23:55 skyR wrote: You've clearly never played a ranged or with a ranged since reflect damage is the worse affix for them. They basically kill themselves in like 5 seconds.
I heal myself on reflect mobs. Maybe try getting heal gear?
That's because reflects damage is not a reasonable affix for ranged classes. Same goes for fast and teleporter. The latter two are even stupid against melee when they have fire chains as well.
The biggest issue for ranged against reflect damage is that LoH is pretty much useless against any other mob or affix. That means you need a completely different gear set for just that one affix.
On June 19 2012 23:59 Na_Dann_Ma_GoGo wrote: The people who complain about Reflect Damage on the Siegebreaker are probably mostly those low armor/def/hp glass canons that farm Lootbreaker like no morning, the people that are supposed to be hit by this very change.
None of us Barbarians etc. will feel bad for you guys having to get at least some resistance now.
Yes, wizards are really known for not building resistances or armor..wait what? The most common way to build is to get a good chunk of all res/armor to ensure that force armor functions.
My wiz that certainly is not greatly geared, but not a total new at lvl 60 either, as in I can do a siegebreaker run although it's far from being fast, has 400 all res and 4k armor and 30k hp. 35k dps with magic weapon. Reflect damage slaughters me, since I can't really afford gear filled with all awesome tertiary stats like LoH or hp/S in great amounts. Running with Templar for the hp/s bonus and all his heals and the pot cooldown is mighty darn long on any reflect damage pack.
On June 19 2012 23:55 skyR wrote: You've clearly never played a ranged or with a ranged since reflect damage is the worse affix for them. They basically kill themselves in like 5 seconds.
I heal myself on reflect mobs. Maybe try getting heal gear?
You have to sack alot of dps for life on hit as a demon hunter to deal with reflect ( switching a 1300 dps wep for a 700 one with 800 LOH for instance ) without the normal burst during ss rotation. If you are gonna use LOH weapon you need one under like 800 DPS so you dont outdamage the heal. Reflect is still a pain to deal with as a demon hunter lol
On June 19 2012 23:59 Na_Dann_Ma_GoGo wrote: The people who complain about Reflect Damage on the Siegebreaker are probably mostly those low armor/def/hp glass canons that farm Lootbreaker like no morning, the people that are supposed to be hit by this very change.
None of us Barbarians etc. will feel bad for you guys having to get at least some resistance now.
Yes, wizards are really known for not building resistances or armor..wait what? The most common way to build is to get a good chunk of all res/armor to ensure that force armor functions.
My wiz that certainly is not greatly geared, but not a total new at lvl 60 either, as in I can do a siegebreaker run although it's far from being fast, has 400 all res and 4k armor and 30k hp. 35k dps with magic weapon. Reflect damage slaughters me, since I can't really afford gear filled with all awesome tertiary stats like LoH or hp/S in great amounts. Running with Templar for the hp/s bonus and all his heals and the pot cooldown is mighty darn long on any reflect damage pack.
I can do Siegebreaker runs on my Wizard with only a little more than 1 million combined gold spent on my gear.
My Barbarian needs ~20-30 million worth of gear to progress similar content.
I don't really feel sympathy for requiring Wizards/DHs to spend significantly more money on upgrades or having an alternate set to progress content.
On June 19 2012 23:59 Na_Dann_Ma_GoGo wrote: The people who complain about Reflect Damage on the Siegebreaker are probably mostly those low armor/def/hp glass canons that farm Lootbreaker like no morning, the people that are supposed to be hit by this very change.
None of us Barbarians etc. will feel bad for you guys having to get at least some resistance now.
Yes, wizards are really known for not building resistances or armor..wait what? The most common way to build is to get a good chunk of all res/armor to ensure that force armor functions.
My wiz that certainly is not greatly geared, but not a total new at lvl 60 either, as in I can do a siegebreaker run although it's far from being fast, has 400 all res and 4k armor and 30k hp. 35k dps with magic weapon. Reflect damage slaughters me, since I can't really afford gear filled with all awesome tertiary stats like LoH or hp/S in great amounts. Running with Templar for the hp/s bonus and all his heals and the pot cooldown is mighty darn long on any reflect damage pack.
See as a Barbarian you have to run around with at least 600res everywhere and 5-6k armor unbuffed. So that with your defensive Warcry you actually stand a chance against even just the normal melee mobs, those that ranged classes don't give a shit about (I know, I'm now playing a DH because of how goddamn more quickly you can farm the Siegebreaker).
If Reflect Damage is such a big deal for you, well deal with it. You can and if you have to sacrifice some dps, so be it. That's just fair in my eyes.
On June 19 2012 23:55 skyR wrote: You've clearly never played a ranged or with a ranged since reflect damage is the worse affix for them. They basically kill themselves in like 5 seconds.
I heal myself on reflect mobs. Maybe try getting heal gear?
You have to sack alot of dps for life on hit as a demon hunter to deal with reflect ( switching a 1300 dps wep for a 700 one with 800 LOH for instance ) without the normal burst during ss rotation. If you are gonna use LOH weapon you need one under like 800 DPS so you dont outdamage the heal. Reflect is still a pain to deal with as a demon hunter lol
Well yeah you have to sack DPS. Silly DHs will all have to sack DPS, because they've been using nothing else :p Welcome to the same world every other class lives in.
On June 19 2012 23:55 skyR wrote: You've clearly never played a ranged or with a ranged since reflect damage is the worse affix for them. They basically kill themselves in like 5 seconds.
I heal myself on reflect mobs. Maybe try getting heal gear?
You have to sack alot of dps for life on hit as a demon hunter to deal with reflect ( switching a 1300 dps wep for a 700 one with 800 LOH for instance ) without the normal burst during ss rotation. If you are gonna use LOH weapon you need one under like 800 DPS so you dont outdamage the heal. Reflect is still a pain to deal with as a demon hunter lol
This. Though the removal of Reflect damage on Champ pack minions will make life considerably easier. You're still utterly screwed vs Rares though.
On June 19 2012 23:59 Na_Dann_Ma_GoGo wrote: The people who complain about Reflect Damage on the Siegebreaker are probably mostly those low armor/def/hp glass canons that farm Lootbreaker like no morning, the people that are supposed to be hit by this very change.
None of us Barbarians etc. will feel bad for you guys having to get at least some resistance now.
Yes, wizards are really known for not building resistances or armor..wait what? The most common way to build is to get a good chunk of all res/armor to ensure that force armor functions.
My wiz that certainly is not greatly geared, but not a total new at lvl 60 either, as in I can do a siegebreaker run although it's far from being fast, has 400 all res and 4k armor and 30k hp. 35k dps with magic weapon. Reflect damage slaughters me, since I can't really afford gear filled with all awesome tertiary stats like LoH or hp/S in great amounts. Running with Templar for the hp/s bonus and all his heals and the pot cooldown is mighty darn long on any reflect damage pack.
I can do Siegebreaker runs on my Wizard with only a little more than 1 million combined spent on my gear.
My Barbarian needs ~20-30 million worth of gear to progress similar content.
I don't really feel sympathy for requiring Wizards/DHs to spend significantly more money on upgrades to progress content.
Damn shoulda known to start playing on NA if the AH is that cheap. Or did you get all yours on week 1? For some reason me or my friends don't seem to find all these cheap awesome gears everyone on the internets seem to find, much like we couldn't sell shit for 250$ the 1st day of AH, I guess EU sucks then.
Reflect damage can be managed for ranged classes, even for glass cannons, doing good potion/defensive skill (ie. diamondskin or ss) management or even globe hunting. It's just as unreasonable as firechains/molten/whatever else is for melee
On June 19 2012 23:59 Na_Dann_Ma_GoGo wrote: The people who complain about Reflect Damage on the Siegebreaker are probably mostly those low armor/def/hp glass canons that farm Lootbreaker like no morning, the people that are supposed to be hit by this very change.
None of us Barbarians etc. will feel bad for you guys having to get at least some resistance now.
Yes, wizards are really known for not building resistances or armor..wait what? The most common way to build is to get a good chunk of all res/armor to ensure that force armor functions.
My wiz that certainly is not greatly geared, but not a total new at lvl 60 either, as in I can do a siegebreaker run although it's far from being fast, has 400 all res and 4k armor and 30k hp. 35k dps with magic weapon. Reflect damage slaughters me, since I can't really afford gear filled with all awesome tertiary stats like LoH or hp/S in great amounts. Running with Templar for the hp/s bonus and all his heals and the pot cooldown is mighty darn long on any reflect damage pack.
I can do Siegebreaker runs on my Wizard with only a little more than 1 million combined spent on my gear.
My Barbarian needs ~20-30 million worth of gear to progress similar content.
I don't really feel sympathy for requiring Wizards/DHs to spend significantly more money on upgrades to progress content.
Damn shoulda known to start playing on NA if the AH is that cheap. Or did you get all yours on week 1? For some reason me or my friends don't seem to find all these cheap awesome gears everyone on the internets seem to find, much like we couldn't sell shit for 250$ the 1st day of AH, I guess EU sucks then.
The problem is thinking you need anything like awesome gear to do siegebreaker.
my impression of the patch notes are that the changes will cause D3 to lose players in the short term but make D3 a better game in the long run
need to find out how much Inferno mob damage has been nerfed, but if patch 1.03 was what D3 would have been released like, I think more people would have liked the game
On June 20 2012 00:14 udgnim wrote: my impression of the patch notes are that the changes will cause D3 to lose players in the short term but make D3 a better game in the long run
need to find out how much Inferno mob damage has been nerfed, but if patch 1.03 was what D3 would have been released like, I think more people would have liked the game
On June 19 2012 23:59 Na_Dann_Ma_GoGo wrote: The people who complain about Reflect Damage on the Siegebreaker are probably mostly those low armor/def/hp glass canons that farm Lootbreaker like no morning, the people that are supposed to be hit by this very change.
None of us Barbarians etc. will feel bad for you guys having to get at least some resistance now.
Yes, wizards are really known for not building resistances or armor..wait what? The most common way to build is to get a good chunk of all res/armor to ensure that force armor functions.
My wiz that certainly is not greatly geared, but not a total new at lvl 60 either, as in I can do a siegebreaker run although it's far from being fast, has 400 all res and 4k armor and 30k hp. 35k dps with magic weapon. Reflect damage slaughters me, since I can't really afford gear filled with all awesome tertiary stats like LoH or hp/S in great amounts. Running with Templar for the hp/s bonus and all his heals and the pot cooldown is mighty darn long on any reflect damage pack.
I can do Siegebreaker runs on my Wizard with only a little more than 1 million combined gold spent on my gear.
My Barbarian needs ~20-30 million worth of gear to progress similar content.
I don't really feel sympathy for requiring Wizards/DHs to spend significantly more money on upgrades or having an alternate set to progress content.
I have a DH, Barb and Wizard. Barb items are so much cheaper since they don't have to share drops with any class. If anything, Monks were the ones that were screwed since they shared most of their items with DHs.
On June 20 2012 00:16 andrewlt wrote: I have a DH, Barb and Wizard. Barb items are so much cheaper since they don't have to share drops with any class. If anything, Monks were the ones that were screwed since they shared most of their items with DHs.
60+ ResAll, 100+ Main Stat, 100+ Vit starts to get expensive regardless of what Main Stat that is. The difference is that Wiz/DH don't need that 60+ ResAll in every slot for A3 to make Siegebreaker runs doable.
On June 20 2012 00:22 Torte de Lini wrote: Huge shame WD gets no real changes TT
Blizzard explicitly said that they weren't doing any class overhauls until 1.1 It was either in the AMAA on reddit or in a previous post. I can't remember which and I have work to get done so i can't really search for the link now.
[*] High-end items (items level 61-63) will now drop in all Acts of Inferno and Acts III and IV of Hell difficulty: The new approximate drop rates are as follows: - Hell - Act III and Act IV: iLvl 61: 9%, iLvl 62: 1.9%, iLvl 63: 0% - Inferno - Act I: iLvl 61: 17.7%, iLvl 62: 7.9%, iLvl 63: 2.0% - Inferno - Act II: iLvl 61: 18.6%, iLvl 62: 12.4%, iLvl 63: 4.1% - Inferno - Act III and Act IV: iLvl 61: 24.1%, iLvl 62: 16.1%, iLvl 63: 8.0%
[*] High-end items (items level 61-63) will now drop in all Acts of Inferno and Acts III and IV of Hell difficulty: The new approximate drop rates are as follows: - Hell - Act III and Act IV: iLvl 61: 9%, iLvl 62: 1.9%, iLvl 63: 0% - Inferno - Act I: iLvl 61: 17.7%, iLvl 62: 7.9%, iLvl 63: 2.0% - Inferno - Act II: iLvl 61: 18.6%, iLvl 62: 12.4%, iLvl 63: 4.1% - Inferno - Act III and Act IV: iLvl 61: 24.1%, iLvl 62: 16.1%, iLvl 63: 8.0%
anyone know what the old distribution was?
You got ilvl 61 in Act 1, ilvl62 in Act 2, ilvl 63 in Act 3/4.
As far as the actual rates, noone knows really. This just means that farming Act 3 isnt the only way to make money on the AH without getting ludicrously lucky.
[*] High-end items (items level 61-63) will now drop in all Acts of Inferno and Acts III and IV of Hell difficulty: The new approximate drop rates are as follows: - Hell - Act III and Act IV: iLvl 61: 9%, iLvl 62: 1.9%, iLvl 63: 0% - Inferno - Act I: iLvl 61: 17.7%, iLvl 62: 7.9%, iLvl 63: 2.0% - Inferno - Act II: iLvl 61: 18.6%, iLvl 62: 12.4%, iLvl 63: 4.1% - Inferno - Act III and Act IV: iLvl 61: 24.1%, iLvl 62: 16.1%, iLvl 63: 8.0%
anyone know what the old distribution was?
all i know is that act 1 was capped at ilvl61, act 2 was capped at 62 and 3n4 dropped 63s
On June 19 2012 23:59 Na_Dann_Ma_GoGo wrote: The people who complain about Reflect Damage on the Siegebreaker are probably mostly those low armor/def/hp glass canons that farm Lootbreaker like no morning, the people that are supposed to be hit by this very change.
None of us Barbarians etc. will feel bad for you guys having to get at least some resistance now.
Yes, wizards are really known for not building resistances or armor..wait what? The most common way to build is to get a good chunk of all res/armor to ensure that force armor functions.
My wiz that certainly is not greatly geared, but not a total new at lvl 60 either, as in I can do a siegebreaker run although it's far from being fast, has 400 all res and 4k armor and 30k hp. 35k dps with magic weapon. Reflect damage slaughters me, since I can't really afford gear filled with all awesome tertiary stats like LoH or hp/S in great amounts. Running with Templar for the hp/s bonus and all his heals and the pot cooldown is mighty darn long on any reflect damage pack.
I can do Siegebreaker runs on my Wizard with only a little more than 1 million combined spent on my gear.
My Barbarian needs ~20-30 million worth of gear to progress similar content.
I don't really feel sympathy for requiring Wizards/DHs to spend significantly more money on upgrades to progress content.
Damn shoulda known to start playing on NA if the AH is that cheap. Or did you get all yours on week 1? For some reason me or my friends don't seem to find all these cheap awesome gears everyone on the internets seem to find, much like we couldn't sell shit for 250$ the 1st day of AH, I guess EU sucks then.
I think the main thing is that you have to search frequently. One day, you can't afford anything but a few hours later and there might be a seemingly useless item to someone else so they post cheap. It comes to a point where you just have to get lucky because some people will just snatch it up and repost it if they see the worth.
On June 19 2012 23:49 kanada wrote: I guess I am not playing D3 anymore, or rolling a new character, maybe time to play My HC barb. (i have DH) They nerfed every peice of gear I have and then buffed every enemy I kill. seige breaker will now be undoable.
I hated glass cannon style but it was the only way to play demonhunter, now it seems I will have to try and switch 100% of my gear to a more tank style which is dissapointing. Also sad that they could change IAS on every item but not fix it on my Boj anglers or Inna's fury.
Or you could suck it up and build resists like my DH friend who has 44k hp, 400 resist all and 100k DPS unbuffed. He can tank stuff with Gloom and vamp everything back. Sorry that you actually have to spend money on real gear now like other classes.
On June 20 2012 00:33 eu.exodus wrote: i probably should have waited till today to combine all my gems and upgrade my jeweler.
lol such a waste of 300k
That's what I did. Have completely avoided dumping any money into Blacksmithing/Jeweler on Hardcore. The prices were ridiculous before...completely hamstrung you if you wanted to level your BS/Jeweler up along with you AND combine all your gems, absolutely nothing left over for the AH. It's the main reason why my SC Monk stalled shortly after release.
On June 19 2012 23:49 kanada wrote: I guess I am not playing D3 anymore, or rolling a new character, maybe time to play My HC barb. (i have DH) They nerfed every peice of gear I have and then buffed every enemy I kill. seige breaker will now be undoable.
I hated glass cannon style but it was the only way to play demonhunter, now it seems I will have to try and switch 100% of my gear to a more tank style which is dissapointing. Also sad that they could change IAS on every item but not fix it on my Boj anglers or Inna's fury.
Or you could suck it up and build resists like my DH friend who has 44k hp, 400 resist all and 100k DPS unbuffed. He can tank stuff with Gloom and vamp everything back. Sorry that you actually have to spend money on real gear now like other classes.
The funny part is in the middle of his whine he contemplates switching to his HC barbarian. It will be a rude awakening if he doesn't want to build a tank set and not play like a glass cannon.
On June 19 2012 23:49 kanada wrote: I guess I am not playing D3 anymore, or rolling a new character, maybe time to play My HC barb. (i have DH) They nerfed every peice of gear I have and then buffed every enemy I kill. seige breaker will now be undoable.
I hated glass cannon style but it was the only way to play demonhunter, now it seems I will have to try and switch 100% of my gear to a more tank style which is dissapointing. Also sad that they could change IAS on every item but not fix it on my Boj anglers or Inna's fury.
Or you could suck it up and build resists like my DH friend who has 44k hp, 400 resist all and 100k DPS unbuffed. He can tank stuff with Gloom and vamp everything back. Sorry that you actually have to spend money on real gear now like other classes.
The funny part is in the middle of his whine he contemplates switching to his HC barbarian. It will be a rude awakening if he doesn't want to build a tank set and not play like a glass cannon.
After the inferno nerf barbs are gonna have an easier time tho.
On June 20 2012 00:52 trinxified wrote: So I'm hearing in the bnet forums that the legandary IAS weren't touched? Anybody confirm?
It was in the patch notes...
Wait... The patch notes say that Legendaries currently DO NOT give IAS effect even though it says so?
Legendary items with the +Attack Speed bonus will now correctly provide a bonus to attack speed. Please note that this fix will only affect new Legendary drops. Existing Legendary items will be addressed in future patch.
Apparently they were giving a reduced amount of attack speed? It does state that there was an issue in prepatch though
So do I get this right? Enemies in general have been buffed, and repair costs for high level gear has been increased drastically.
How are people supposed to start playing inferno after getting through Hell? Mass farm gold from normal enemies for repairs before going after elites for a chance of getting gear that they are not even likely to use? This isn't Hardcore, people plan to die a lot in inferno...
Item tooltips in the auction house will now correctly reflect stat bonuses provided by socketed gems
Are they going to make searching for items on AH not affected by gems in sockets? This angers me to no end. I want a helm with MF and a socket, not one socketed with a Topaz for its only magic find. I need another search parameter plus a DPS filter, for things like off-hand sources and mojos. This can't be done with level alone.
Champions, Rares, and Uniques have had their pathing improved Elite packs (Champion/Rare) now drop an additional item for players with 5 stacks of Nephalem Valor, which is guaranteed to be of Rare quality Damage from monsters in Acts II, III, and IV in Inferno difficulty has been reduced
So fucking glad for this. Yesterday I had 5 stacks/140% mf in act 3 inferno Azmondan run and I only get 1 single rare item in the whole run including boss. What a fucking joke compare to how long it took me to finish that run.
On June 20 2012 01:02 o3.power91 wrote: So do I get this right? Enemies in general have been buffed, and repair costs for high level gear has been increased drastically.
How are people supposed to start playing inferno after getting through Hell? Mass farm gold from normal enemies for repairs before going after elites for a chance of getting gear that they are not even likely to use? This isn't Hardcore, people plan to die a lot in inferno...
What lol? What part of the patch made it look like mobs got buffed? Certain bosses got buffed but bosses were a joke to begin with. Mobs had their dmg output reduced and no longer run away as often and as far... Inferno is probably going to be a joke now.
On June 19 2012 23:49 kanada wrote: I guess I am not playing D3 anymore, or rolling a new character, maybe time to play My HC barb. (i have DH) They nerfed every peice of gear I have and then buffed every enemy I kill. seige breaker will now be undoable.
I hated glass cannon style but it was the only way to play demonhunter, now it seems I will have to try and switch 100% of my gear to a more tank style which is dissapointing. Also sad that they could change IAS on every item but not fix it on my Boj anglers or Inna's fury.
Or you could suck it up and build resists like my DH friend who has 44k hp, 400 resist all and 100k DPS unbuffed. He can tank stuff with Gloom and vamp everything back. Sorry that you actually have to spend money on real gear now like other classes.
You think that's cheap? ppl chooses Glass Cannon cuz it's much cheaper than getting insane resist/health and dps like your friend.
On June 20 2012 01:02 o3.power91 wrote: So do I get this right? Enemies in general have been buffed, and repair costs for high level gear has been increased drastically.
How are people supposed to start playing inferno after getting through Hell? Mass farm gold from normal enemies for repairs before going after elites for a chance of getting gear that they are not even likely to use? This isn't Hardcore, people plan to die a lot in inferno...
bosses have been buffed, the rest of the monsters have been generally nerfed
Item tooltips in the auction house will now correctly reflect stat bonuses provided by socketed gems
Are they going to make searching for items on AH not affected by gems in sockets? This angers me to no end. I want a helm with MF and a socket, not one socketed with a Topaz for its only magic find. I need another search parameter plus a DPS filter, for things like off-hand sources and mojos. This can't be done with level alone.
I'm in the same boat dude. I hate searching for a piece of armor with at least 100+ vitality only to find out that its only vitality comes from gems or there is like 50 vitality on it. It wastes time just trying to flip through all the bs.
On June 19 2012 23:49 kanada wrote: I guess I am not playing D3 anymore, or rolling a new character, maybe time to play My HC barb. (i have DH) They nerfed every peice of gear I have and then buffed every enemy I kill. seige breaker will now be undoable.
I hated glass cannon style but it was the only way to play demonhunter, now it seems I will have to try and switch 100% of my gear to a more tank style which is dissapointing. Also sad that they could change IAS on every item but not fix it on my Boj anglers or Inna's fury.
Or you could suck it up and build resists like my DH friend who has 44k hp, 400 resist all and 100k DPS unbuffed. He can tank stuff with Gloom and vamp everything back. Sorry that you actually have to spend money on real gear now like other classes.
You think that's cheap? ppl chooses Glass Cannon cuz it's much cheaper than getting insane resist/health and dps like your friend.
Its also funny because with those stats you will still die to 2 khazra spears in A3
Everything suffers the IAS nerf except quivers. It's been said multiple times. The patch notes only note that the EXISTING bugged legendaries will be fixed in a later patch, while the NEW legendaries that drop are fixed.
On June 19 2012 23:49 kanada wrote: I guess I am not playing D3 anymore, or rolling a new character, maybe time to play My HC barb. (i have DH) They nerfed every peice of gear I have and then buffed every enemy I kill. seige breaker will now be undoable.
I hated glass cannon style but it was the only way to play demonhunter, now it seems I will have to try and switch 100% of my gear to a more tank style which is dissapointing. Also sad that they could change IAS on every item but not fix it on my Boj anglers or Inna's fury.
Or you could suck it up and build resists like my DH friend who has 44k hp, 400 resist all and 100k DPS unbuffed. He can tank stuff with Gloom and vamp everything back. Sorry that you actually have to spend money on real gear now like other classes.
You think that's cheap? ppl chooses Glass Cannon cuz it's much cheaper than getting insane resist/health and dps like your friend.
Its also funny because with those stats you will still die to 2 khazra spears in A3
yeah.. I don't think the guy knows much. It's amazing how bad people can be at diablo, but it happens.
On June 19 2012 23:49 kanada wrote: I guess I am not playing D3 anymore, or rolling a new character, maybe time to play My HC barb. (i have DH) They nerfed every peice of gear I have and then buffed every enemy I kill. seige breaker will now be undoable.
I hated glass cannon style but it was the only way to play demonhunter, now it seems I will have to try and switch 100% of my gear to a more tank style which is dissapointing. Also sad that they could change IAS on every item but not fix it on my Boj anglers or Inna's fury.
Or you could suck it up and build resists like my DH friend who has 44k hp, 400 resist all and 100k DPS unbuffed. He can tank stuff with Gloom and vamp everything back. Sorry that you actually have to spend money on real gear now like other classes.
You think that's cheap? ppl chooses Glass Cannon cuz it's much cheaper than getting insane resist/health and dps like your friend.
Its also funny because with those stats you will still die to 2 khazra spears in A3
Play hardcore DH. Plus now all the monster damage are nerfed should be nicer now
Soul Ripper and Soul Lasher damage has been reduced and both monsters will now run away less often. HALLELUJAH!! Watch I'll end up still dying to them in one shot.
On June 19 2012 23:49 kanada wrote: I guess I am not playing D3 anymore, or rolling a new character, maybe time to play My HC barb. (i have DH) They nerfed every peice of gear I have and then buffed every enemy I kill. seige breaker will now be undoable.
I hated glass cannon style but it was the only way to play demonhunter, now it seems I will have to try and switch 100% of my gear to a more tank style which is dissapointing. Also sad that they could change IAS on every item but not fix it on my Boj anglers or Inna's fury.
Or you could suck it up and build resists like my DH friend who has 44k hp, 400 resist all and 100k DPS unbuffed. He can tank stuff with Gloom and vamp everything back. Sorry that you actually have to spend money on real gear now like other classes.
You think that's cheap? ppl chooses Glass Cannon cuz it's much cheaper than getting insane resist/health and dps like your friend.
Its also funny because with those stats you will still die to 2 khazra spears in A3
yeah.. I don't think the guy knows much. It's amazing how bad people can be at diablo, but it happens.
well he said shadow power with gloom. It reduces dmg by 65% for 3 seconds but it costs 14 discipline. I wanna see sorcs diamond skin costing 60 arcane power, or monks serenetiy costing 50% of his spirit, yeah now that would be funny m8.
So they nerf nether but leave ball lightning? It's basically the same spell but nether offers a heal. Well nobody will ever use nether anymore so they effectively removed that rune from the game. Reading through these notes just makes my faith in d3 diminishes even further. Think it might be time to go back to dota2.
On June 19 2012 23:49 kanada wrote: I guess I am not playing D3 anymore, or rolling a new character, maybe time to play My HC barb. (i have DH) They nerfed every peice of gear I have and then buffed every enemy I kill. seige breaker will now be undoable.
I hated glass cannon style but it was the only way to play demonhunter, now it seems I will have to try and switch 100% of my gear to a more tank style which is dissapointing. Also sad that they could change IAS on every item but not fix it on my Boj anglers or Inna's fury.
Or you could suck it up and build resists like my DH friend who has 44k hp, 400 resist all and 100k DPS unbuffed. He can tank stuff with Gloom and vamp everything back. Sorry that you actually have to spend money on real gear now like other classes.
You think that's cheap? ppl chooses Glass Cannon cuz it's much cheaper than getting insane resist/health and dps like your friend.
Its also funny because with those stats you will still die to 2 khazra spears in A3
yeah.. I don't think the guy knows much. It's amazing how bad people can be at diablo, but it happens.
well he said shadow power with gloom. It reduces dmg by 65% for 3 seconds but it costs 14 discipline. I wanna see sorcs diamond skin costing 60 arcane power, or monks serenetiy costing 50% of his spirit, yeah now that would be funny m8.
I kinda agree that our defensive skill cost way too fucking much. People think DHs have it easy when in reality we cant really play defensive properly. You can tell your 400 resist friend to tank A4 inferno when kripp himself couldnt do it properly on his Barb with stormshield and all that shit. Finally, you cant vamp anything back in inferno, and if you are talking about Life on Hit hand crossbows, they cost a shit ton here in Asia.
On June 19 2012 23:49 kanada wrote: I guess I am not playing D3 anymore, or rolling a new character, maybe time to play My HC barb. (i have DH) They nerfed every peice of gear I have and then buffed every enemy I kill. seige breaker will now be undoable.
I hated glass cannon style but it was the only way to play demonhunter, now it seems I will have to try and switch 100% of my gear to a more tank style which is dissapointing. Also sad that they could change IAS on every item but not fix it on my Boj anglers or Inna's fury.
Or you could suck it up and build resists like my DH friend who has 44k hp, 400 resist all and 100k DPS unbuffed. He can tank stuff with Gloom and vamp everything back. Sorry that you actually have to spend money on real gear now like other classes.
You think that's cheap? ppl chooses Glass Cannon cuz it's much cheaper than getting insane resist/health and dps like your friend.
Its also funny because with those stats you will still die to 2 khazra spears in A3
yeah.. I don't think the guy knows much. It's amazing how bad people can be at diablo, but it happens.
well he said shadow power with gloom. It reduces dmg by 65% for 3 seconds but it costs 14 discipline. I wanna see sorcs diamond skin costing 60 arcane power, or monks serenetiy costing 50% of his spirit, yeah now that would be funny m8.
I kinda agree that our defensive skill cost way too fucking much. People think DHs have it easy when in reality we cant really play defensive properly. You can tell your 400 resist friend to tank A4 inferno when kripp himself couldnt do it properly on his Barb with stormshield and all that shit. Finally, you cant vamp anything back in inferno, and if you are talking about Life on Hit hand crossbows, they cost a shit ton here in Asia.
Why would DH need to tank? They only need defensive stats enough to survive few hits instead of getting instagibbed.
On June 20 2012 01:28 mazqo wrote: Damn DH's, stop QQ'ing, your class is the best farming class by far.
We're not QQing. I even accept the NT fix as the shit was OP as hell anyways We just want you people to stop bitching about how we should be able to tank like a fucking melee when its not that possible. Gloom is situational, and the best defensive most of the time is nuking the SOB down before he reaches you. Being tanky as a DH means you can take 1 one more hit. With the monster nerfs itll be better now
On June 19 2012 23:49 kanada wrote: I guess I am not playing D3 anymore, or rolling a new character, maybe time to play My HC barb. (i have DH) They nerfed every peice of gear I have and then buffed every enemy I kill. seige breaker will now be undoable.
I hated glass cannon style but it was the only way to play demonhunter, now it seems I will have to try and switch 100% of my gear to a more tank style which is dissapointing. Also sad that they could change IAS on every item but not fix it on my Boj anglers or Inna's fury.
Or you could suck it up and build resists like my DH friend who has 44k hp, 400 resist all and 100k DPS unbuffed. He can tank stuff with Gloom and vamp everything back. Sorry that you actually have to spend money on real gear now like other classes.
You think that's cheap? ppl chooses Glass Cannon cuz it's much cheaper than getting insane resist/health and dps like your friend.
Its also funny because with those stats you will still die to 2 khazra spears in A3
yeah.. I don't think the guy knows much. It's amazing how bad people can be at diablo, but it happens.
well he said shadow power with gloom. It reduces dmg by 65% for 3 seconds but it costs 14 discipline. I wanna see sorcs diamond skin costing 60 arcane power, or monks serenetiy costing 50% of his spirit, yeah now that would be funny m8.
I kinda agree that our defensive skill cost way too fucking much. People think DHs have it easy when in reality we cant really play defensive properly. You can tell your 400 resist friend to tank A4 inferno when kripp himself couldnt do it properly on his Barb with stormshield and all that shit. Finally, you cant vamp anything back in inferno, and if you are talking about Life on Hit hand crossbows, they cost a shit ton here in Asia.
Why would DH need to tank? They only need defensive stats enough to survive few hits instead of getting instagibbed.
We shouldnt be. Its just people keep implying that we should.
Nothing dropping from destructables except reduced gold amounts sucks. IMO, its a staple of the diablo franchise that knowing that next barrel you break could have an amazing item. Now there isn't even a point to break destructable objects.
On June 20 2012 01:35 serum321 wrote: Nothing dropping from destructables except reduced gold amounts sucks. IMO, its a staple of the diablo franchise that knowing that next barrel you break could have an amazing item. Now there isn't even a point to break destructable objects.
On topic - WHO HERE HAS GOTTEN A LEGENDARY FROM A BARREL????!!!
On June 20 2012 01:28 crms wrote: So they nerf nether but leave ball lightning? It's basically the same spell but nether offers a heal. Well nobody will ever use nether anymore so they effectively removed that rune from the game. Reading through these notes just makes my faith in d3 diminishes even further. Think it might be time to go back to dota2.
Actually ball lightning has a larger range than nether so it tends to hit more targets and more often. The advantage of nether I believe was supposed to be the lifesteal and damage type. I kill belial like 4x as fast using nether because I think hes resistant to lightning or something. Either that or nether was hitting alot more on big targets than lightning was. I do agree though that nether is now pretty worthless. O well I already used lightning anyway its range was so much better for everything besides bosses.
Champions, Rares, and Uniques have had their pathing improved Elite packs (Champion/Rare) now drop an additional item for players with 5 stacks of Nephalem Valor, which is guaranteed to be of Rare quality Damage from monsters in Acts II, III, and IV in Inferno difficulty has been reduced
So fucking glad for this. Yesterday I had 5 stacks/140% mf in act 3 inferno Azmondan run and I only get 1 single rare item in the whole run including boss. What a fucking joke compare to how long it took me to finish that run.
Not even true. 5 Stacks guarantee 2 rares from boss.
Champions, Rares, and Uniques have had their pathing improved Elite packs (Champion/Rare) now drop an additional item for players with 5 stacks of Nephalem Valor, which is guaranteed to be of Rare quality Damage from monsters in Acts II, III, and IV in Inferno difficulty has been reduced
So fucking glad for this. Yesterday I had 5 stacks/140% mf in act 3 inferno Azmondan run and I only get 1 single rare item in the whole run including boss. What a fucking joke compare to how long it took me to finish that run.
Not even true. 5 Stacks guarantee 2 rares from boss.
Champions, Rares, and Uniques have had their pathing improved Elite packs (Champion/Rare) now drop an additional item for players with 5 stacks of Nephalem Valor, which is guaranteed to be of Rare quality Damage from monsters in Acts II, III, and IV in Inferno difficulty has been reduced
So fucking glad for this. Yesterday I had 5 stacks/140% mf in act 3 inferno Azmondan run and I only get 1 single rare item in the whole run including boss. What a fucking joke compare to how long it took me to finish that run.
Not even true. 5 Stacks guarantee 2 rares from boss.
I swear man.
Unless you broke the game, 5 stacks really guarantee 2 rares from act bosses pre 1.03
On June 19 2012 23:59 Na_Dann_Ma_GoGo wrote: The people who complain about Reflect Damage on the Siegebreaker are probably mostly those low armor/def/hp glass canons that farm Lootbreaker like no morning, the people that are supposed to be hit by this very change.
None of us Barbarians etc. will feel bad for you guys having to get at least some resistance now.
Yes, wizards are really known for not building resistances or armor..wait what? The most common way to build is to get a good chunk of all res/armor to ensure that force armor functions.
My wiz that certainly is not greatly geared, but not a total new at lvl 60 either, as in I can do a siegebreaker run although it's far from being fast, has 400 all res and 4k armor and 30k hp. 35k dps with magic weapon. Reflect damage slaughters me, since I can't really afford gear filled with all awesome tertiary stats like LoH or hp/S in great amounts. Running with Templar for the hp/s bonus and all his heals and the pot cooldown is mighty darn long on any reflect damage pack.
If hydra gave me LoH bonuses, I probably wouldn't care as much.
Hydra alone slaughters me from reflect damage, blizzard would slaughter me. Arcane orb only gets 1/4th the LoH bonus, so it really doesn't work out as nicely as it does in theory.
My saving grace with reflect damage mobs is to burn them down fast enough to get their health globes. + diamond skin.
35k hp, 42k dps, 500 resists, 5000 armor, so I am at least adequate for my A2 farming. A3 more or less goes back to lol 1-3 shotting =\
Champions, Rares, and Uniques have had their pathing improved Elite packs (Champion/Rare) now drop an additional item for players with 5 stacks of Nephalem Valor, which is guaranteed to be of Rare quality Damage from monsters in Acts II, III, and IV in Inferno difficulty has been reduced
So fucking glad for this. Yesterday I had 5 stacks/140% mf in act 3 inferno Azmondan run and I only get 1 single rare item in the whole run including boss. What a fucking joke compare to how long it took me to finish that run.
Not even true. 5 Stacks guarantee 2 rares from boss.
I swear man.
U probably missed some rares then. Happens when the screen is full with items.
retroactive IAS nerf "fixing existing legendaries is beyond our ability"
in other words: pay no attention to the man behind the curtain.
to me it has become obvious at this point that, in combination with SC2, blizzard isn't making mistakes. because that implies they at least have some idea of what they should be doing. rather, they appear to be fumbling in the dark. the only reason it works out is the properties developed for them by artists previous keep enough people around long enough that the game eventually stabilizes. I'm done with this, I won't buy another Blizzard game. I'll try and enjoy D3 as long as I can, which is until my friends get tired of it.
Oh look, people complaining about changes they haven't even tried. On the internet. Who would have known...
Changes look good. Nether arrow needed a nerf, it was OP and probably not even "working as intended." DH needs further nerfs tbh, and this is coming from someone who loves the monk but farms act 3 inferno on DH because it is stupidly easy by comparison. I don't totally understand the weapon changes on the monk ( I mean, what it actually means. Monks could always use one-handed spears, and saying "monks can use two handed weapons, monks can use two handed swords" seems redundant and just doesn't make a lot of sense to me. I guess I'll see what it means in-game).
The MF not affecting barrels, chests, etc. is a little unfortunate (I just got a legendary from a regular chest yesterday), but probably needed due to botting. An unfortunate but good change nonetheless. I'm excited by most of the changes, and I think IAS will still be desirable, just not THE stat to pick for most classes/builds. How much act2-4 inferno damage has been nerfed is the big question mark for me. Can I enjoy monk again? Might I even have a chance without a shield? We shall see I guess.
Edit: Blizzard has released their official version and it is a little cleaner than what is in the OP. The monk weapon change reads: "Monks can now use two-handed axes, two-handed maces, and two-handed swords."
On June 20 2012 01:28 crms wrote: So they nerf nether but leave ball lightning? It's basically the same spell but nether offers a heal. Well nobody will ever use nether anymore so they effectively removed that rune from the game. Reading through these notes just makes my faith in d3 diminishes even further. Think it might be time to go back to dota2.
Actually ball lightning has a larger range than nether so it tends to hit more targets and more often. The advantage of nether I believe was supposed to be the lifesteal and damage type. I kill belial like 4x as fast using nether because I think hes resistant to lightning or something. Either that or nether was hitting alot more on big targets than lightning was. I do agree though that nether is now pretty worthless. O well I already used lightning anyway its range was so much better for everything besides bosses.
Nether tentacles procs 155% damage each TICK, which means if your NT hits 2 times a mob, you did 310% damage
Ball lightning does 155% every 2-3 TICKS, the damage is divided onto 2 or 3 hit. So if you hit a mob 2 times with a BL then you only did 155% damage.
On June 19 2012 23:49 kanada wrote: I guess I am not playing D3 anymore, or rolling a new character, maybe time to play My HC barb. (i have DH) They nerfed every peice of gear I have and then buffed every enemy I kill. seige breaker will now be undoable.
I hated glass cannon style but it was the only way to play demonhunter, now it seems I will have to try and switch 100% of my gear to a more tank style which is dissapointing. Also sad that they could change IAS on every item but not fix it on my Boj anglers or Inna's fury.
Or you could suck it up and build resists like my DH friend who has 44k hp, 400 resist all and 100k DPS unbuffed. He can tank stuff with Gloom and vamp everything back. Sorry that you actually have to spend money on real gear now like other classes.
Pics of stats or didn't happened.
i'm at 98k dps unbuffed and my entire stuff is worth at least 90m (considering i bought them cheaper because weeks ago andy face was only 3-4m instead of 12m now,beckon sail 1m, etc)
On June 20 2012 01:42 red_b wrote: retroactive IAS nerf "fixing existing legendaries is beyond our ability"
in other words: pay no attention to the man behind the curtain.
to me it has become obvious at this point that, in combination with SC2, blizzard isn't making mistakes. because that implies they at least have some idea of what they should be doing. rather, they appear to be fumbling in the dark. the only reason it works out is the properties developed for them by artists previous keep enough people around long enough that the game eventually stabilizes. I'm done with this, I won't buy another Blizzard game. I'll try and enjoy D3 as long as I can, which is until my friends get tired of it.
Well, IAS not retroactive would just destroy the market for one thing. my 15 ias gloves, 15 ias ring, 13 ias 40 crit damage socketed amulet? Instant multimillionaire and can live comfortably for a long while.
Retroactively doing 1 stat is easy due to the spreadsheet nature of items. Legendary overhaul probably could not be done unless they gave you new copies of your legendaries unidentified (which is actually a good idea), because if all the stats change, including adding new affixes, changing affix levels, etc. then they couldn't really give you an updated version of your item, because the items will more or less be entirely new and different -- if we take their overhaul seriously.
Item tooltips in the auction house will now correctly reflect stat bonuses provided by socketed gems
Are they going to make searching for items on AH not affected by gems in sockets? This angers me to no end. I want a helm with MF and a socket, not one socketed with a Topaz for its only magic find. I need another search parameter plus a DPS filter, for things like off-hand sources and mojos. This can't be done with level alone.
I hope they do these as well. Gems in sockets inflating stats is one of my annoyances when searching for items in the AH. I hope they increase the parameters from 3 to 6 as well. I'm looking for main stat/vital/resist + some combination of mf/armor/movement speed/ias/crit chance/crit damage on gear and the basic three stats already take up all of the search parameters.
Does anybody know how much they nerfed the damage of those godforsaken soul rippers?
To people freaking out about not fixing current legendaries, did you not see this?
Legendary items with the +Attack Speed bonus will now correctly provide a bonus to attack speed. Please note that this fix will only affect new Legendary drops. Existing Legendary items will be addressed in future patch.
On June 20 2012 01:02 o3.power91 wrote: So do I get this right? Enemies in general have been buffed, and repair costs for high level gear has been increased drastically.
How are people supposed to start playing inferno after getting through Hell? Mass farm gold from normal enemies for repairs before going after elites for a chance of getting gear that they are not even likely to use? This isn't Hardcore, people plan to die a lot in inferno...
bosses have been buffed, the rest of the monsters have been generally nerfed
hmm i see. I misunderstood some of the notes i guess XD How big are the repair changes though? I remember them suggesting a 10x or 15x increase in repair costs before...
On June 19 2012 23:59 Na_Dann_Ma_GoGo wrote: The people who complain about Reflect Damage on the Siegebreaker are probably mostly those low armor/def/hp glass canons that farm Lootbreaker like no morning, the people that are supposed to be hit by this very change.
None of us Barbarians etc. will feel bad for you guys having to get at least some resistance now.
Yes, wizards are really known for not building resistances or armor..wait what? The most common way to build is to get a good chunk of all res/armor to ensure that force armor functions.
My wiz that certainly is not greatly geared, but not a total new at lvl 60 either, as in I can do a siegebreaker run although it's far from being fast, has 400 all res and 4k armor and 30k hp. 35k dps with magic weapon. Reflect damage slaughters me, since I can't really afford gear filled with all awesome tertiary stats like LoH or hp/S in great amounts. Running with Templar for the hp/s bonus and all his heals and the pot cooldown is mighty darn long on any reflect damage pack.
If hydra gave me LoH bonuses, I probably wouldn't care as much.
Hydra alone slaughters me from reflect damage, blizzard would slaughter me. Arcane orb only gets 1/4th the LoH bonus, so it really doesn't work out as nicely as it does in theory.
My saving grace with reflect damage mobs is to burn them down fast enough to get their health globes. + diamond skin.
35k hp, 42k dps, 500 resists, 5000 armor, so I am at least adequate for my A2 farming. A3 more or less goes back to lol 1-3 shotting =\
I think you could use a weapon with +Life on Kill and resummon your hydras for HP. Although with the new patch they might've fixed it: Players wearing +Life on Kill items should no longer receive a benefit from this affix when "killing" friendly monsters (e.g. when a witch doctor re-summons a Spider Queen while another Spider Queen is still active)
So they did mention that elite packs now drop 1 guaranteed Rare with 5 NV. But they never said bosses only drop 1 instead of 2, like they said in the design preview. Did I miss something or do bosses still have guaranteed 2 Rare with 5 NV :|
Only relevant thing is: Unique monsters in Hell and Inferno difficulty are no longer guaranteed to drop two Magic items when slain
Which refers to Magic items (blue) and has no reference to NV either.
On June 20 2012 01:59 Duka08 wrote: So they did mention that elite packs now drop 1 guaranteed Rare with 5 NV. But they never said bosses only drop 1 instead of 2, like they said in the design preview. Did I miss something or do bosses still have guaranteed 2 Rare with 5 NV :|
Only relevant thing is: Unique monsters in Hell and Inferno difficulty are no longer guaranteed to drop two Magic items when slain
Which refers to Magic items (blue) and has no reference to NV either.
There is a line somewhere that says 4th NV stack has quality reduced slightly on bosses.
Legendary items with the +Attack Speed bonus will now correctly provide a bonus to attack speed. Please note that this fix will only affect new Legendary drops. Existing Legendary items will be addressed in future patch.
Why is that difficult to understand?
it's not difficult to understand.
I think it's a lie.
edit: and my DPS is down by a little north of 30%. maybe if hydra really works with crit now I can get it back though, I already switched to Arcane orb so...
On June 20 2012 01:55 HardlyNever wrote: To people freaking out about not fixing current legendaries, did you not see this?
Legendary items with the +Attack Speed bonus will now correctly provide a bonus to attack speed. Please note that this fix will only affect new Legendary drops. Existing Legendary items will be addressed in future patch.
Why is that difficult to understand?
it's not difficult to understand.
I think it's a lie.
edit: and my DPS is down by a little north of 30%. maybe if hydra really works with crit now I can get it back though, I already switched to Arcane orb so maybe I can get it back.
Hydra was already affected by crit before the patch. The patch addressed crit affecting dots like the wd's haunt to my understanding.
On June 20 2012 01:55 HardlyNever wrote: To people freaking out about not fixing current legendaries, did you not see this?
Legendary items with the +Attack Speed bonus will now correctly provide a bonus to attack speed. Please note that this fix will only affect new Legendary drops. Existing Legendary items will be addressed in future patch.
Why is that difficult to understand?
it's not difficult to understand.
I think it's a lie.
edit: and my DPS is down by a little north of 30%. maybe if hydra really works with crit now I can get it back though, I already switched to Arcane orb so maybe I can get it back.
Hydra was already affected by crit before the patch. The patch addressed crit affecting dots like the wd's haunt to my understanding.
Arcane hydra crit, what about he non projectile hydras? Pretty sure venom hydra never crit.
On June 20 2012 02:06 Yaotzin wrote: That's a strange opinion, considering they could have just said nothing instead of supposedly lying.
let me posit this to you
Blizard says they will nerf inferno, which they do however, blizzard also nerfs your damage by a commensurate amount
did they nerf inferno? or is it the same difficulty, but just slower? I had thought this would happen from the beginning, I think we will find that any nerfs to inferno are more psychological than realized. and that to me, is what they set out to do.
On June 20 2012 01:59 Duka08 wrote: So they did mention that elite packs now drop 1 guaranteed Rare with 5 NV. But they never said bosses only drop 1 instead of 2, like they said in the design preview. Did I miss something or do bosses still have guaranteed 2 Rare with 5 NV :|
Only relevant thing is: Unique monsters in Hell and Inferno difficulty are no longer guaranteed to drop two Magic items when slain
Which refers to Magic items (blue) and has no reference to NV either.
There is a line somewhere that says 4th NV stack has quality reduced slightly on bosses.
Yeah I noticed this, and it makes sense, just makes 5 stacks more worth it. But still nothing about 5 NV changing, so bosses still drop 2 rares? This would be nice.
The MF not affecting barrels, chests, etc. is a little unfortunate (I just got a legendary from a regular chest yesterday), but probably needed due to botting.
So instead of fixing the actual problem they punish all players, yep, that sounds about right.
Hey, bots are farming gold in NM, so we need to remove gold from monsters ASAP. Bots are also farming elites for items, it's unfortunate, but i'll guess they have to go too, right?
On a side note, i lol'ed hard when i saw the 3 minute enrage on belial, the entire community hates enrage timers and what Blizzard do? ''we double it'', just pathetic.
On June 20 2012 01:59 Duka08 wrote: So they did mention that elite packs now drop 1 guaranteed Rare with 5 NV. But they never said bosses only drop 1 instead of 2, like they said in the design preview. Did I miss something or do bosses still have guaranteed 2 Rare with 5 NV :|
Only relevant thing is: Unique monsters in Hell and Inferno difficulty are no longer guaranteed to drop two Magic items when slain
Which refers to Magic items (blue) and has no reference to NV either.
There is a line somewhere that says 4th NV stack has quality reduced slightly on bosses.
Yeah I noticed this, and it makes sense, just makes 5 stacks more worth it. But still nothing about 5 NV changing, so bosses still drop 2 rares? This would be nice.
I think it means the 4th and 5th stacks were the two rares. Now the first rare isn't guaranteed anymore. Doing a Kulle run to see what happens.
So far, I've noticed ~30-40% damage reduction from typical trash mobs (A2 Inferno Kulle) 5kish down from 8kish.
The MF not affecting barrels, chests, etc. is a little unfortunate (I just got a legendary from a regular chest yesterday), but probably needed due to botting.
So instead of fixing the actual problem they punish all players, yep, that sounds about right.
Hey, bots are farming gold in NM, so we need to remove gold from monsters ASAP. Bots are also farming elites for items, it's unfortunate, but i'll guess they have to go too, right?
On a side note, i lol'ed hard when i saw the 3 minute enrage on belial, just pathetic.
There is always some idiot that thinks they can just "fix the problem" or "just stop botting." Right now, that idiot is you.
But I'm sure you could do it right? I heard Blizz is hiring right now, why don't you go show them how to do it.
On June 19 2012 23:59 Na_Dann_Ma_GoGo wrote: The people who complain about Reflect Damage on the Siegebreaker are probably mostly those low armor/def/hp glass canons that farm Lootbreaker like no morning, the people that are supposed to be hit by this very change.
None of us Barbarians etc. will feel bad for you guys having to get at least some resistance now.
Yes, wizards are really known for not building resistances or armor..wait what? The most common way to build is to get a good chunk of all res/armor to ensure that force armor functions.
My wiz that certainly is not greatly geared, but not a total new at lvl 60 either, as in I can do a siegebreaker run although it's far from being fast, has 400 all res and 4k armor and 30k hp. 35k dps with magic weapon. Reflect damage slaughters me, since I can't really afford gear filled with all awesome tertiary stats like LoH or hp/S in great amounts. Running with Templar for the hp/s bonus and all his heals and the pot cooldown is mighty darn long on any reflect damage pack.
If hydra gave me LoH bonuses, I probably wouldn't care as much.
Hydra alone slaughters me from reflect damage, blizzard would slaughter me. Arcane orb only gets 1/4th the LoH bonus, so it really doesn't work out as nicely as it does in theory.
My saving grace with reflect damage mobs is to burn them down fast enough to get their health globes. + diamond skin.
35k hp, 42k dps, 500 resists, 5000 armor, so I am at least adequate for my A2 farming. A3 more or less goes back to lol 1-3 shotting =\
Just buy some cheap life regen gear. Chest can have over 550 life regen and I believe amulets can also have a lot. Not sure if reflect damage is mitigated by armor/resists but I have slightly over 1k life regen on my life regen set (just swap into your life regen gear when you meet reflect mobs) and reflect mobs are no problem. This is with me going to town with hydra + blizzard + MM. Life regen is so underrated for wizards atm. LoH is pretty bad for wizards (most wizard skills only gain a small % of LoH) but life regen scales so well with how wizards currently gear with low vit but high mitigation. It is useful in many areas of the game, not just vs reflect mobs (i.e. on certain phases in boss fights where you aren't dps'ing and just running around you can swap in life regen gear). Relatively speaking wizards shouldn't be complaining because LoH items are sooooo much more expensive than life regen gear.
The MF not affecting barrels, chests, etc. is a little unfortunate (I just got a legendary from a regular chest yesterday), but probably needed due to botting.
So instead of fixing the actual problem they punish all players, yep, that sounds about right.
Hey, bots are farming gold in NM, so we need to remove gold from monsters ASAP. Bots are also farming elites for items, it's unfortunate, but i'll guess they have to go too, right?
On a side note, i lol'ed hard when i saw the 3 minute enrage on belial, the entire community hates enrage timers and what Blizzard do? ''double it'', just pathetic.
sounds like someone is a bot loaded with mf gear who just got nerfed no more rack farming for you.
On June 19 2012 23:59 Na_Dann_Ma_GoGo wrote: The people who complain about Reflect Damage on the Siegebreaker are probably mostly those low armor/def/hp glass canons that farm Lootbreaker like no morning, the people that are supposed to be hit by this very change.
None of us Barbarians etc. will feel bad for you guys having to get at least some resistance now.
Yes, wizards are really known for not building resistances or armor..wait what? The most common way to build is to get a good chunk of all res/armor to ensure that force armor functions.
My wiz that certainly is not greatly geared, but not a total new at lvl 60 either, as in I can do a siegebreaker run although it's far from being fast, has 400 all res and 4k armor and 30k hp. 35k dps with magic weapon. Reflect damage slaughters me, since I can't really afford gear filled with all awesome tertiary stats like LoH or hp/S in great amounts. Running with Templar for the hp/s bonus and all his heals and the pot cooldown is mighty darn long on any reflect damage pack.
If hydra gave me LoH bonuses, I probably wouldn't care as much.
Hydra alone slaughters me from reflect damage, blizzard would slaughter me. Arcane orb only gets 1/4th the LoH bonus, so it really doesn't work out as nicely as it does in theory.
My saving grace with reflect damage mobs is to burn them down fast enough to get their health globes. + diamond skin.
35k hp, 42k dps, 500 resists, 5000 armor, so I am at least adequate for my A2 farming. A3 more or less goes back to lol 1-3 shotting =\
Just buy some cheap life regen gear. Chest can have over 550 life regen and I believe amulets can also have a lot. Not sure if reflect damage is mitigated by armor/resists but I have slightly over 1k life regen on my life regen set (just swap into your life regen gear when you meet reflect mobs) and reflect mobs are no problem. This is with me going to town with hydra + blizzard + MM. Life regen is so underrated for wizards atm. LoH is pretty bad for wizards (most wizard skills only gain a small % of LoH) but life regen scales so well with how wizards currently gear with low vit but high mitigation. It is useful in many areas of the game, not just vs reflect mobs (i.e. on certain phases in boss fights where you aren't dps'ing and just running around you can swap in life regen gear). Relatively speaking wizards shouldn't be complaining because LoH items are sooooo much more expensive than life regen gear.
Yeah, I've been (slowly) working towards getting life regen.
On June 20 2012 01:55 HardlyNever wrote: To people freaking out about not fixing current legendaries, did you not see this?
Legendary items with the +Attack Speed bonus will now correctly provide a bonus to attack speed. Please note that this fix will only affect new Legendary drops. Existing Legendary items will be addressed in future patch.
Why is that difficult to understand?
it's not difficult to understand.
I think it's a lie.
edit: and my DPS is down by a little north of 30%. maybe if hydra really works with crit now I can get it back though, I already switched to Arcane orb so maybe I can get it back.
Hydra was already affected by crit before the patch. The patch addressed crit affecting dots like the wd's haunt to my understanding.
Arcane hydra crit, what about he non projectile hydras? Pretty sure venom hydra never crit.
Yes I tested it and it has been tested by others. It doesn't show yellow numbers because venom hydra damage is "continuous." The damage you see on screen is just an "update" of how much damage it did in that .5 second interval, in which many crits occured mixed in with many non-crits. The same applys to Blizzard and other continual damage spells like the beam-type spells.
edit: It's kinda of funny that my early tests of Blizzard (whose damage I found was not affected by IAS) is what led me to stacking crit intead of IAS. I had no idea the hit on IAS was going to be this hard though.
can we sell our accounts on the RMAH? That would be too convenient as I haven't seen any on ebay yet....
My account has a 60 wiz in inferno with only a butcher kill (gave up when it came to act 2, summer school started and its my last class before graduation) a 45 monk and a lvl 25 or so barb in hardcore.
The wizard has 1300 int 1000 vit and 800 all resistance(28-35k hp depending on what items i use, and between 15-20k dps., willing to sell this account for 60 bucks (since blizz wont give me refund)
and the acct has 500k gold left on it for any consolation
On June 20 2012 02:26 Yaotzin wrote: Guess it's now a bad idea to go to an act where you're undergeared and will die endlessly. That's OK tho with drop changes.
The principle behind it is fine. However, I doubt I could ever recoup 34k repairs every couple kulle runs due to retarded mob affixes that pop up every now and then (lol imp and brood spiders with fire chains and crap)
Nether tentacles obviously needed a nerf for mobs with huge hit boxes like the butcher and belial. IMO, it felt right against normal mobs, did about as much damage as a resource costing ability should and it had an acceptable amount of lifesteal. Also it was a lvl 59? 60? ability it should do nice damage. This nerf is over the top though, to the point the rune is useless. 1 hit each means something like hungering arrow does MORE damage yet it doesn't cost hatred. If they had nerfed it to something like 3 hits each that would seem reasonable and wouldn't be op against mobs with huge hit boxes.
damn. i feel kind of awful as some of these changes directly affect most of the choices i've made. my DH feels very gimped when it comes to burst damage as his bow had the IAS magic attrib. where it was 1200dps before it's now under 1000 and i can't exactly sell it anymore .
also temporarily gave up my barb and lent all his equipment away when it seems like a very good time to sport a barb for farming. all my other characters clear things much more slowly T_T and everything is overall very much different. but i love that they added ilevel 62/63 drops for act 1 and 2. i feel like the game isn't quite worth the time investment anymore, and i'll be looking forward to HOTS more now.
mad props to all the barbs that stuck it out and are much more viable now!
- Jeweler The gold and material cost to combine gems ranks 2-8 has been reduced Combinations for these ranks now only require 2 gems, down from 3 The gold cost to combine each rank of gems is now as follows: - Rank 2 - Flawed: 10 gold (down from 500 gold) - Rank 3 - Regular: 25 gold (down from 750 gold) - Rank 4 - Flawless: 40 gold (down from 1250 gold) - Rank 5 - Perfect: 55 gold (down from 2000 gold) - Rank 6 - Radiant: 70 gold (down from 3500 gold) - Rank 7 - Square: 85 gold (down from 7500 gold) - Rank 8 - Flawless Square: 100 gold (down from 20,000 gold)
- Jeweler The gold and material cost to combine gems ranks 2-8 has been reduced Combinations for these ranks now only require 2 gems, down from 3 The gold cost to combine each rank of gems is now as follows: - Rank 2 - Flawed: 10 gold (down from 500 gold) - Rank 3 - Regular: 25 gold (down from 750 gold) - Rank 4 - Flawless: 40 gold (down from 1250 gold) - Rank 5 - Perfect: 55 gold (down from 2000 gold) - Rank 6 - Radiant: 70 gold (down from 3500 gold) - Rank 7 - Square: 85 gold (down from 7500 gold) - Rank 8 - Flawless Square: 100 gold (down from 20,000 gold)
just checked and its the same as it was? WTF?
Either way, I'm pissed because I spent extra money.
On June 20 2012 01:59 Duka08 wrote: So they did mention that elite packs now drop 1 guaranteed Rare with 5 NV. But they never said bosses only drop 1 instead of 2, like they said in the design preview. Did I miss something or do bosses still have guaranteed 2 Rare with 5 NV :|
Only relevant thing is: Unique monsters in Hell and Inferno difficulty are no longer guaranteed to drop two Magic items when slain
Which refers to Magic items (blue) and has no reference to NV either.
There is a line somewhere that says 4th NV stack has quality reduced slightly on bosses.
Yeah I noticed this, and it makes sense, just makes 5 stacks more worth it. But still nothing about 5 NV changing, so bosses still drop 2 rares? This would be nice.
I think it means the 4th and 5th stacks were the two rares. Now the first rare isn't guaranteed anymore. Doing a Kulle run to see what happens.
I interpreted it the same way for 4th and 5th stacks, but because it wasn't explicitly said am still very curious. Let me know what you find out!
On June 20 2012 02:27 eits wrote: can we sell our accounts on the RMAH? That would be too convenient as I haven't seen any on ebay yet....
My account has a 60 wiz in inferno with only a butcher kill (gave up when it came to act 2, summer school started and its my last class before graduation) a 45 monk and a lvl 25 or so barb in hardcore.
The wizard has 1300 int 1000 vit and 800 all resistance(28-35k hp depending on what items i use, and between 15-20k dps., willing to sell this account for 60 bucks (since blizz wont give me refund)
and the acct has 500k gold left on it for any consolation
anyone interested msg me here
How are you going selling your account? Isn't it bound together with all the other blizz games you ever purchased on a single email?
- Jeweler The gold and material cost to combine gems ranks 2-8 has been reduced Combinations for these ranks now only require 2 gems, down from 3 The gold cost to combine each rank of gems is now as follows: - Rank 2 - Flawed: 10 gold (down from 500 gold) - Rank 3 - Regular: 25 gold (down from 750 gold) - Rank 4 - Flawless: 40 gold (down from 1250 gold) - Rank 5 - Perfect: 55 gold (down from 2000 gold) - Rank 6 - Radiant: 70 gold (down from 3500 gold) - Rank 7 - Square: 85 gold (down from 7500 gold) - Rank 8 - Flawless Square: 100 gold (down from 20,000 gold)
Welp the game is a complete joke as far as difficulty goes now. Blizzard can't make anything difficult that lasts for more than a few weeks because of all the whiners.
- Jeweler The gold and material cost to combine gems ranks 2-8 has been reduced Combinations for these ranks now only require 2 gems, down from 3 The gold cost to combine each rank of gems is now as follows: - Rank 2 - Flawed: 10 gold (down from 500 gold) - Rank 3 - Regular: 25 gold (down from 750 gold) - Rank 4 - Flawless: 40 gold (down from 1250 gold) - Rank 5 - Perfect: 55 gold (down from 2000 gold) - Rank 6 - Radiant: 70 gold (down from 3500 gold) - Rank 7 - Square: 85 gold (down from 7500 gold) - Rank 8 - Flawless Square: 100 gold (down from 20,000 gold)
just checked and its the same as it was? WTF?
You realise patch isn't out on EU? :p
why the hell did it patch then lol. And I remember torte de lini saying it was somewhere on the first page -_- So fail. That will teach me to Spam click Shit without reading first. Cya Gold.
On June 20 2012 02:51 klaxen wrote: Welp the game is a complete joke as far as difficulty goes now. Blizzard can't make anything difficult that lasts for more than a few weeks because of all the whiners.
Hopefully they can increase it again later - in a more sensible manner, but it definitely needed a nerf. The scaling from A1 to A2 was broken, and white mobs in general hit far too hard. It was forcing everyone into a very limited set of builds.
On June 20 2012 02:51 klaxen wrote: Welp the game is a complete joke as far as difficulty goes now. Blizzard can't make anything difficult that lasts for more than a few weeks because of all the whiners.
Hopefully they can increase it again later - in a more sensible manner, but it definitely needed a nerf. The scaling from A1 to A2 was broken, and white mobs in general hit far too hard. It was forcing everyone into a very limited set of builds.
It didn't need a nerf, it needed something different... better drops on hell maybe(which we just got)? IDK .
On June 20 2012 02:56 matiK23 wrote: Sigh people are never happy.
well when you fuck up a beloved franchise such as diablo (which seems impossible to fuck up) there is going to be backlash and tears. many of us have waited 10 years for this game and to but it bluntly, it's not nearly as good as it should be.
On June 10 2012 01:34 Chairman Ray wrote: I like the changes. Ideally, I want the best farming method to be just playing an act from start to finish. I think it will be more fun that way. If I have to do pot smashing or chest runs day after day, I will pull out my hair.
leveling fixes suck tho. sorry i dont want to play the same easy shit for the 20th time just to have the character i want.
farming is one thing. leveling is a totally different story.
I guess you want an option where when you get to 60, they give you level 60's of all the other characters?
hell ya you know how much extra shit I would sell to people who are like "well I guess I have the char might as well put gear on it"
Luckily I got in an exploited on all my accounts to get a bunch of 60s in about 2hours each, still not as boring as playing the game, but very close.
Sounds like you're really enjoying Diablo 3
This is the guy who says the game is complete trash yet apparently has a ton of 60's and was trying to trade gold for D3 accounts
Yep and I did it all while catching up on my work, sleep, netflix and putting in 3 to 4 hours daily at the gym ^ ^
You're at the gym for 3-4 hours everyday? Man you must love staring at your big biceps in the mirror, doing curls under a squat rack with a straight bar.
Good thing I cashed out on RMAH since prices will be going down like crazy in a week. I should be able to buy all my stuff back with a fraction of what I sold them for =D
On June 20 2012 02:51 klaxen wrote: Welp the game is a complete joke as far as difficulty goes now. Blizzard can't make anything difficult that lasts for more than a few weeks because of all the whiners.
Hopefully they can increase it again later - in a more sensible manner, but it definitely needed a nerf. The scaling from A1 to A2 was broken, and white mobs in general hit far too hard. It was forcing everyone into a very limited set of builds.
Yes they should have felt pretty stupid about that. I recall an interview somewhere in which someblizzguy was going on and on about how awesome D3 would be given that there'd be "so many viable play styles". Lol, we'll see how it plays out, but til now all Wizards, for example, were running 1 or 2 builds. Nothing else works(worked?) in Inferno.
On June 10 2012 01:34 Chairman Ray wrote: I like the changes. Ideally, I want the best farming method to be just playing an act from start to finish. I think it will be more fun that way. If I have to do pot smashing or chest runs day after day, I will pull out my hair.
leveling fixes suck tho. sorry i dont want to play the same easy shit for the 20th time just to have the character i want.
farming is one thing. leveling is a totally different story.
I guess you want an option where when you get to 60, they give you level 60's of all the other characters?
hell ya you know how much extra shit I would sell to people who are like "well I guess I have the char might as well put gear on it"
Luckily I got in an exploited on all my accounts to get a bunch of 60s in about 2hours each, still not as boring as playing the game, but very close.
Sounds like you're really enjoying Diablo 3
This is the guy who says the game is complete trash yet apparently has a ton of 60's and was trying to trade gold for D3 accounts
Yep and I did it all while catching up on my work, sleep, netflix and putting in 3 to 4 hours daily at the gym ^ ^
You're at the gym for 3-4 hours everyday? Man you must love staring at your big biceps in the mirror, doing curls under a squat rack with a straight bar.
Also why are you always banned whenever you post?
People who talk about going to the gym for hours per day on internet forums don't actually go to the gym, just saying.
On June 20 2012 02:31 serum321 wrote: Nether tentacles obviously needed a nerf for mobs with huge hit boxes like the butcher and belial. IMO, it felt right against normal mobs, did about as much damage as a resource costing ability should and it had an acceptable amount of lifesteal. Also it was a lvl 59? 60? ability it should do nice damage. This nerf is over the top though, to the point the rune is useless. 1 hit each means something like hungering arrow does MORE damage yet it doesn't cost hatred. If they had nerfed it to something like 3 hits each that would seem reasonable and wouldn't be op against mobs with huge hit boxes.
Just because an ability is level 60, doesn't mean it should be better. Many of the top abilities use very low level runes. Smoke screen-lingering fog, for an example.
Elemental arrow costs 10 hatred. Think about that, 10 hatred, when with bat and mark you get 6 hatred back per shot. 4 hatred resource spender, that does 155% per hit for multiple hits? Elemental arrow's obvious use is for aoe damage, not single target.
The closest comparison I can think of is a Wizard's celestial orb, which costs 35 arcane power and does 178% weapon damage with no heal.
NT was grossly overpowered, more OP than the original force armor.
On June 20 2012 02:51 klaxen wrote: Welp the game is a complete joke as far as difficulty goes now. Blizzard can't make anything difficult that lasts for more than a few weeks because of all the whiners.
Hopefully they can increase it again later - in a more sensible manner, but it definitely needed a nerf. The scaling from A1 to A2 was broken, and white mobs in general hit far too hard. It was forcing everyone into a very limited set of builds.
Yes they should have felt pretty stupid about that. I recall an interview somewhere in which someblizzguy was going on and on about how awesome D3 would be given that there'd be "so many viable play styles". Lol, we'll see how it plays out, but til now all Wizards, for example, were running 1 or 2 builds. Nothing else works(worked?) in Inferno.
I learned long ago to ignore everything devs say will be in their game :p
To a degree it's an either/or though. If the game is very difficult, people will pick only the very best skills. If not, there will be variety.
On June 20 2012 02:51 klaxen wrote: Welp the game is a complete joke as far as difficulty goes now. Blizzard can't make anything difficult that lasts for more than a few weeks because of all the whiners.
Hopefully they can increase it again later - in a more sensible manner, but it definitely needed a nerf. The scaling from A1 to A2 was broken, and white mobs in general hit far too hard. It was forcing everyone into a very limited set of builds.
It didn't need a nerf, it needed something different... better drops on hell maybe(which we just got)? IDK .
See that's the thing, there is really no simple answer. You're dealing with a game with multiple classes/mechanics/builds that wants to achieve good balance between solo and multiplayer. D2 was incredibly easy, so multiple builds worked and people could group no problem. Then people complained about it being too easy. They ramped up difficulty and that pigeon-holed people into builds and playing solo 99% of the time. Now people are complaining it is getting nerfed. At the end of day though I would much rather play with friends in an easier game than farming solo all day.
TLDR: People will complain about anything and everything.
On June 20 2012 03:21 Dreamer.T wrote: So it seems Belial, whom from what I've read and heard about is already very difficult, just got even MORE difficult? Great...
There's a general nerf to a2+ too, overall effect on Belial is unknown.
On June 20 2012 03:21 Dreamer.T wrote: So it seems Belial, whom from what I've read and heard about is already very difficult, just got even MORE difficult? Great...
A venom hydra from a 20k dps wizard can solo Belial in 2:40. Unless you're grossly undergeared, there's no way you run up against the enrage timer.
On June 20 2012 03:08 {ToT}ColmA wrote: any dh on us server who can talk bout farming difference act 3/4?
I can clear packs just as fast using a different build but im noticing a huge difference in elites and boss killing time. taking me atleast 2x as long on the bosses. act 3 spider/zmo farm
Havent tried my demon hunter yet, but my a2 barb was able to clear belial with 5 stacks on my first attempt ever with no deaths the whole session, including standing in fire chains/desecrator/plague against on elites for prolonged periods where before it would kill me in seconds and I would have to kite them and use multiple cool downs and still have a good chance of dieing. current base stats with shout are: 1574 Str 1203 Vit most of my resists are mid 600 except physical is 726 with shout up block is at 33% 14776 base dps 834 Life on Hit
Edit: Just killed an arcane goblin pack and fire chain goblin pack at the same time in A2 with only 1 pot and no kiting to wait for cool downs.
On June 20 2012 03:32 karazax wrote: Havent tried my demon hunter yet, but my a2 barb was able to clear belial with 5 stacks for the first time with no deaths the whole session, including standing in fire chains/desecrator/plague against on elites for prolonged periods where before it would kill me in seconds and I would have to kite them and use multiple cool downs and still have a good chance of dieing. current base stats with shout are: 1574 Str 1203 Vit most of my resists are mid 600 except physical is 726 with shout up block is at 33% 14776 base dps 834 Life on Hit
Dude you have those kinda stats, and couldn't kill Belial pre-patch without deaths?
On June 20 2012 03:32 karazax wrote: Havent tried my demon hunter yet, but my a2 barb was able to clear belial with 5 stacks for the first time with no deaths the whole session, including standing in fire chains/desecrator/plague against on elites for prolonged periods where before it would kill me in seconds and I would have to kite them and use multiple cool downs and still have a good chance of dieing. current base stats with shout are: 1574 Str 1203 Vit most of my resists are mid 600 except physical is 726 with shout up block is at 33% 14776 base dps 834 Life on Hit
Dude you have those kinda stats, and couldn't kill Belial pre-patch without deaths?
never tried, that was my first attempt. Just got to a2 on him 2 days ago, but the elites definitely were giving me deaths pre-patch if I tried to face tank them with minimal movement the way I can now. No kiting was needed the whole run.
On June 20 2012 03:32 karazax wrote: Havent tried my demon hunter yet, but my a2 barb was able to clear belial with 5 stacks for the first time with no deaths the whole session, including standing in fire chains/desecrator/plague against on elites for prolonged periods where before it would kill me in seconds and I would have to kite them and use multiple cool downs and still have a good chance of dieing. current base stats with shout are: 1574 Str 1203 Vit most of my resists are mid 600 except physical is 726 with shout up block is at 33% 14776 base dps 834 Life on Hit
Dude you have those kinda stats, and couldn't kill Belial pre-patch without deaths?
never tried, that was my first attempt. Just got to a2 on him 2 days ago, but the elites definitely were giving me deaths pre-patch
That's pretty overgeared for A2. I cleared A2 with much less than that.
Though your resists are pretty low compared to everything else.
They definately lowered the damage by a lot. I can take some hits from elites now on my DH. I cant imagine how easy the game is for barbs now, especially 2h ones.
On June 20 2012 03:32 karazax wrote: Havent tried my demon hunter yet, but my a2 barb was able to clear belial with 5 stacks for the first time with no deaths the whole session, including standing in fire chains/desecrator/plague against on elites for prolonged periods where before it would kill me in seconds and I would have to kite them and use multiple cool downs and still have a good chance of dieing. current base stats with shout are: 1574 Str 1203 Vit most of my resists are mid 600 except physical is 726 with shout up block is at 33% 14776 base dps 834 Life on Hit
Dude you have those kinda stats, and couldn't kill Belial pre-patch without deaths?
never tried, that was my first attempt. Just got to a2 on him 2 days ago, but the elites definitely were giving me deaths pre-patch
That's pretty overgeared for A2. I cleared A2 with much less than that.
Though your resists are pretty low compared to everything else.
Yeah i suspect I would have cleared A2 today anyway, but now i can just sit in fire chains and plague/desercrator for several seconds at a time without dieing.
Molten/frozen/jailer wasps can be facetanked with additional mobs where I would skip them before or likely have multiple deaths.
On June 20 2012 03:45 darkcloud8282 wrote: They definately lowered the damage by a lot. I can take some hits from elites now on my DH. I cant imagine how easy the game is for barbs now, especially 2h ones.
On June 20 2012 03:45 darkcloud8282 wrote: They definately lowered the damage by a lot. I can take some hits from elites now on my DH. I cant imagine how easy the game is for barbs now, especially 2h ones.
The MF not affecting barrels, chests, etc. is a little unfortunate (I just got a legendary from a regular chest yesterday), but probably needed due to botting.
So instead of fixing the actual problem they punish all players, yep, that sounds about right.
Hey, bots are farming gold in NM, so we need to remove gold from monsters ASAP. Bots are also farming elites for items, it's unfortunate, but i'll guess they have to go too, right?
On a side note, i lol'ed hard when i saw the 3 minute enrage on belial, just pathetic.
There is always some idiot that thinks they can just "fix the problem" or "just stop botting." Right now, that idiot is you.
But I'm sure you could do it right? I heard Blizz is hiring right now, why don't you go show them how to do it.
And there is always a very, very smart person who thinks it's better to nerf every aspect of the game instead.
NM runs are as profitable as royal crypts, solution = remove gold from monsters. Bots farming packs, solution = reduce loot/make elites 1000000% harder. Bots spamming channels, solution = get rid of chat. People duping godly gear = reduce DPS in everything.
On June 20 2012 03:45 darkcloud8282 wrote: They definately lowered the damage by a lot. I can take some hits from elites now on my DH. I cant imagine how easy the game is for barbs now, especially 2h ones.
Mhm.. I worked so hard to gear up my barb. I can kill many/most elite and champ packs in A3 now (even invul champions / fire chains desecrator, etc. Basically if they're not lickers or those ranged birds, I can kill it).
I hope all the gold spent won't feel useless after the nerf.
Anyone else having troubles leaving the damn general chat?? I can't leave I keep getting an error message. So now my little chatbox gets completely flooded by basically the stupidity of b.net forums please help?
On June 20 2012 04:13 Hier wrote: That enrage timer on Belial is such a pain for melee.
I haven't gotten to play since the patch, but before the patch I could just tank Belial's hits on my Barbarian, except for the part where he sticks his hand in the ground and does the barrage thing, so I don't see why this would be so much worse for melee over ranged.
I imagine it's even easier now, since he does less damage (or did the nerf not apply to bosses since they were already pretty easy?)
On June 20 2012 02:56 matiK23 wrote: Sigh people are never happy.
well when you fuck up a beloved franchise such as diablo (which seems impossible to fuck up) there is going to be backlash and tears. many of us have waited 10 years for this game and to but it bluntly, it's not nearly as good as it should be.
Something with a 10year waiting time will never be as good as it should be.
On June 20 2012 04:13 Hier wrote: That enrage timer on Belial is such a pain for melee.
I haven't gotten to play since the patch, but before the patch I could just tank Belial's hits on my Barbarian, except for the part where he sticks his hand in the ground and does the barrage thing, so I don't see why this would be so much worse for melee over ranged.
I imagine it's even easier now, since he does less damage (or did the nerf not apply to bosses since they were already pretty easy?)
He didn't have an enrage timer before today's patch. The point is even if you can tank everything you still need to kill him in 3 mins for the last phase (whereas before you can take as long as you want).
The MF not affecting barrels, chests, etc. is a little unfortunate (I just got a legendary from a regular chest yesterday), but probably needed due to botting.
So instead of fixing the actual problem they punish all players, yep, that sounds about right.
Hey, bots are farming gold in NM, so we need to remove gold from monsters ASAP. Bots are also farming elites for items, it's unfortunate, but i'll guess they have to go too, right?
On a side note, i lol'ed hard when i saw the 3 minute enrage on belial, just pathetic.
There is always some idiot that thinks they can just "fix the problem" or "just stop botting." Right now, that idiot is you.
But I'm sure you could do it right? I heard Blizz is hiring right now, why don't you go show them how to do it.
And there is always a very, very smart person who thinks it's better to nerf every aspect of the game instead.
NM runs are as profitable as royal crypts, solution = remove gold from monsters. Bots farming packs, solution = reduce loot/make elites 1000000% harder. Bots spamming channels, solution = get rid of chat. People duping godly gear = reduce DPS in everything.
Pure genius.
Reduce dps while make elites 1000000% harder.
......yeaaaaaaaaah, no. Obviously you didn't play as a Barb pre 1.03.
On June 20 2012 04:13 Hier wrote: That enrage timer on Belial is such a pain for melee.
I haven't gotten to play since the patch, but before the patch I could just tank Belial's hits on my Barbarian, except for the part where he sticks his hand in the ground and does the barrage thing, so I don't see why this would be so much worse for melee over ranged.
I imagine it's even easier now, since he does less damage (or did the nerf not apply to bosses since they were already pretty easy?)
He didn't have an enrage timer before today's patch. The point is even if you can tank everything you still need to kill him in 3 mins for the last phase (whereas before you can take as long as you want).
Since he does less damage you can get more dps stats and less vitality/resists in your gear and still survive.
On June 20 2012 04:13 Hier wrote: That enrage timer on Belial is such a pain for melee.
I haven't gotten to play since the patch, but before the patch I could just tank Belial's hits on my Barbarian, except for the part where he sticks his hand in the ground and does the barrage thing, so I don't see why this would be so much worse for melee over ranged.
I imagine it's even easier now, since he does less damage (or did the nerf not apply to bosses since they were already pretty easy?)
He didn't have an enrage timer before today's patch. The point is even if you can tank everything you still need to kill him in 3 mins for the last phase (whereas before you can take as long as you want).
I get that, but while I never fought him with a stopwatch, it certainly never felt like it was over 3 minutes.
On June 20 2012 04:32 Coolness53 wrote: So how much easier is inferno?
Basically elites are really easy now and some bosses have gotten harder cause people are pure tank and don't have enough DPS to finish it off before enrage timers.
I'm a little concerned about the specific normal monster nerfs, seems like they're giving up a lot of ground and homogenizing the difficulty. Hopefully this trend doesn't continue.
Damage in act 3 feels ~30% lower, but the aspd nerf really, really hurts. Feel spirit starved, less LoH, fewer interrupts and a pretty huge damage nerf for me despite not really stacking aspd that much. On the bright side though, molten hurts about as much as 2 stacked plagues prepatch(act3). Still think monks could use a little something though, because aspd was our best stat by far.
On June 20 2012 05:00 Vinski wrote: Has anyone here beaten ghom as a melee since the patch? I feel he is impossible
I tried, don't quite have the dps to do it(I would've prepatch). Ended up short 4-800k short every time. I think what would fix the fight for melee's is that he waits like 5-10 secs before casting his first poison cloud, because otherwise it cuts off kiting paths for like the first minute of the fight. I think the enrage wasn't really tuned particularly well though, really feels like blizzard just pulled a time out of a hat, especially since melee spend 1/3 of the fight twiddling their thumbs.
On June 20 2012 05:01 Yaotzin wrote: That game never existed. Would've been nice if it did. As it was if you didn't have certain skills you simply couldn't progress at all.
I'm fine with that. You min/max when you're super-undergeared to clear content above your level. That makes sense.
When you're kitted out in high level gear, you have a far greater selection available for you. When I was farming heart of sin these past few weeks, I'd try a new spec each run. Multiple runs have featured melee wizard builds with arcane orb - orbit, spectral blades, etc. They may have increased my run time to about 30 min instead of my usual 20, but it relieved the monotony. Generally, it took me about 10 seconds to kill a champion pack, the challenge was lasting long enough to do so.
I killed the butcher with nothing but thorns damage.
And yes, my gear was high level. It took time to farm and gear for it, and I reaped the benefits. 150k+ dps, 50% crit, 40k hp, 5k armor and 500 resist all. It didn't require weeks of no-life, as I do have a full time job among other distractions (such as raiding guilds who still insist on raiding DS sigh), but it still took time and effort.
you could actually do pony land with 5 stacks without dying now.... WOW... my gears are all level 61-62 and i lost 10k dps due to the AS nerf and still be able to do this.... EZ
On June 20 2012 05:09 Phael wrote: And yes, my gear was high level. It took time to farm and gear for it, and I reaped the benefits. 150k+ dps, 50% crit, 40k hp, 5k armor and 500 resist all. It didn't require weeks of no-life, as I do have a full time job among other distractions (such as raiding guilds who still insist on raiding DS sigh), but it still took time and effort.
Regardless of the time it took, there are incredibly few people with stats like that. Yes, with gear like that options open up. But for 99% of the playerbase, there are just a few possible builds (energy armor, a slowing ability etc).
For now, when those sorts of stats aren't commonplace (I'm sure they will be someday), I think it's right to nerf a2+. They can do like they did with D2 though, and increase the difficulty over time, to compensate for such gear becoming more and more common. As it was, A2 on was a horror show for people with more mediocre gear. Getting through A2 with my crappy gear (I don't like using the AH much) was not fun.
Yeah it's anecdotal due to my gear setup, but apparently it's working as intended, 1% IAS is about equal to 1% crit on my gear, instead of being blown way out of proportion like before.
On June 10 2012 01:34 Chairman Ray wrote: I like the changes. Ideally, I want the best farming method to be just playing an act from start to finish. I think it will be more fun that way. If I have to do pot smashing or chest runs day after day, I will pull out my hair.
leveling fixes suck tho. sorry i dont want to play the same easy shit for the 20th time just to have the character i want.
farming is one thing. leveling is a totally different story.
I guess you want an option where when you get to 60, they give you level 60's of all the other characters?
hell ya you know how much extra shit I would sell to people who are like "well I guess I have the char might as well put gear on it"
Luckily I got in an exploited on all my accounts to get a bunch of 60s in about 2hours each, still not as boring as playing the game, but very close.
Sounds like you're really enjoying Diablo 3
This is the guy who says the game is complete trash yet apparently has a ton of 60's and was trying to trade gold for D3 accounts
Yep and I did it all while catching up on my work, sleep, netflix and putting in 3 to 4 hours daily at the gym ^ ^
You're at the gym for 3-4 hours everyday? Man you must love staring at your big biceps in the mirror, doing curls under a squat rack with a straight bar.
Also why are you always banned whenever you post?
That's nothing bro, I work out at the gym 18-20 hours a day and I do so many 'roids I'm legally a eunuch. I just thought all my starcraft internet friends should know.
On June 20 2012 06:13 tuho12345 wrote: Wait, my boots got changed from movement speed to attack speed, and from 15% MS to now 5% iAS??? The fuck is wrong with u Blizz???
On June 20 2012 06:13 tuho12345 wrote: Wait, my boots got changed from movement speed to attack speed, and from 15% MS to now 5% iAS??? The fuck is wrong with u Blizz???
On June 20 2012 06:13 tuho12345 wrote: Wait, my boots got changed from movement speed to attack speed, and from 15% MS to now 5% iAS??? The fuck is wrong with u Blizz???
On June 20 2012 06:13 tuho12345 wrote: Wait, my boots got changed from movement speed to attack speed, and from 15% MS to now 5% iAS??? The fuck is wrong with u Blizz???
Has Diablo (the boss) been nerfed? I killed him today and it was a walk in the park compared to my previous tries. But I don't see anything related to him in the patch notes. It might just be because I replaced all my IAS gear with resist gear so it took me forever to kill him but he couldn't kill me at all either.
holy crap, anyone fighted Izual since the patch? I don't know if it's normal but I was in a 4player coop game in Normal and I was (barb) frozen 90% of the fight. it was insane.
On June 20 2012 07:10 Matoo- wrote: Has Diablo (the boss) been nerfed? I killed him today and it was a walk in the park compared to my previous tries. But I don't see anything related to him in the patch notes. It might just be because I replaced all my IAS gear with resist gear so it took me forever to kill him but he couldn't kill me at all either.
Has anyone else noticed since the patch that Azmodan's Hell Grasps are doing dmg way outside of their graphical range as they spread out? Making him pretty impossible for me, as I've died to it every attempt now. ;\
On June 20 2012 07:28 tuho12345 wrote: Guarantee 3 rares my ass, fuck u Blizz it's only 1 for me.
Where did it say guarantee 3 rares? I recall Blizzard saying bosses only guarantee 1 rare now. In return for this nerf on drops, rare and champion packs are guaranteed to drop 1 rare now.
On June 20 2012 07:28 tuho12345 wrote: Guarantee 3 rares my ass, fuck u Blizz it's only 1 for me.
Where did it say guarantee 3 rares? I recall Blizzard saying bosses only guarantee 1 rare now. In return for this nerf on drops, rare and champion packs are guaranteed to drop 1 rare now.
Elite packs (Champion/Rare) now drop an additional item for players with 5 stacks of Nephalem Valor, which is guaranteed to be of Rare quality
It's used to be 1-2 right? now an additional must be 2-3 or am I wrong at math?
elites never dropped guaranteed rares even at 5 stack as far as I can recall. It was just much more likely due to the MF bonus + whatever MF you were wearing/swapped when they died.
On June 20 2012 07:28 tuho12345 wrote: Guarantee 3 rares my ass, fuck u Blizz it's only 1 for me.
Where did it say guarantee 3 rares? I recall Blizzard saying bosses only guarantee 1 rare now. In return for this nerf on drops, rare and champion packs are guaranteed to drop 1 rare now.
Elite packs (Champion/Rare) now drop an additional item for players with 5 stacks of Nephalem Valor, which is guaranteed to be of Rare quality
It's used to be 1-2 right? now an additional must be 2-3 or am I wrong at math?
Where the hell does it say "We have added an extra rare to elite packs" Read the preview notes again. If you read CAREFULLY, it stated that the TWO guaranteed rares from a bosses from a FULL NV STACK has been reduced to ONE. HOWEVER, the ELITE PACKS now drop a GUARANTEED *ONE* RARE AT FULL STACK.
Pre-1.0.3. it was never guaranteed elite packs would drop a rare at full stack. Now it is.
1.0.3.: ONE guaranteed rare per elite pack at FULL NV. ONE guaranteed rare per boss at FULL NV.
On June 20 2012 07:28 tuho12345 wrote: Guarantee 3 rares my ass, fuck u Blizz it's only 1 for me.
Where did it say guarantee 3 rares? I recall Blizzard saying bosses only guarantee 1 rare now. In return for this nerf on drops, rare and champion packs are guaranteed to drop 1 rare now.
Elite packs (Champion/Rare) now drop an additional item for players with 5 stacks of Nephalem Valor, which is guaranteed to be of Rare quality
It's used to be 1-2 right? now an additional must be 2-3 or am I wrong at math?
Where the hell does it say "We have added an extra rare to elite packs" Read the preview notes again. If you read CAREFULLY, it stated that the TWO guaranteed rares from a bosses from a FULL NV STACK has been reduced to ONE. HOWEVER, the ELITE PACKS now drop a GUARANTEED *ONE* RARE AT FULL STACK.
Pre-1.0.3. it was never guaranteed elite packs would drop a rare at full stack. Now it is.
1.0.3.: ONE guaranteed rare per elite pack at FULL NV. ONE guaranteed rare per boss at FULL NV.
"Elite packs (Champion/Rare) now drop an additional item for players with 5 stacks of Nephalem Valor, which is guaranteed to be of Rare quality" means "We have added an extra rare to elite packs". They didn't just guarantee one of the drops would be a rare.
He was wrong that elites had a guarateed rare before the patch. They could drop only blues. But they did add an extra rare item to elite packs in this patch.
Ps. Excessive Caps usage like that can be annoying.
On June 20 2012 07:49 Babaganoush wrote: Yes I've been getting three rares from elite packs now. But again, the only change in 1.0.3. is that one rare is guaranteed, never was in 1.0.2.
And I frigging give up on Ghom for now. It's impossible. At least for a Wizard. I heard Barbs can tank it with enough resists and LoH.
No, the change is that the 1 rare item is aditional. That's a big diference. That means when you are getting 3 rares, you would have gotten only 2. Guaranteeing one rare would mean that you still got the same amount of items, but one of them would be rare 100% of the time. Not only it that would be a worse change for you, since it's basically -1 item drop per elite, it would probally make MF less usefull, since you only increased the chance of upgrading one of your drops, while now you still have the chance of upgrading both of them.
I have literally 0 magic find, but I've gotten 2 rares off a elite/champion back before (with a 5 stack), and I've killed a dozen elite/champions in a row (with a 5 stack) and gotten 0 rares. The change just guarantees I get at least 1 each time now, any more than that was never guaranteed.
On June 20 2012 07:49 Babaganoush wrote: Yes I've been getting three rares from elite packs now. But again, the only change in 1.0.3. is that one rare is guaranteed, never was in 1.0.2.
And I frigging give up on Ghom for now. It's impossible. At least for a Wizard. I heard Barbs can tank it with enough resists and LoH.
No, the change is that the 1 rare item is aditional. That's a big diference. That means when you are getting 3 rares, you would have gotten only 2. Guaranteeing one rare would mean that you still got the same amount of items, but one of them would be rare 100% of the time. Not only it that would be a worse change for you, since it's basically -1 item drop per elite, it would probally make MF less usefull, since you only increased the chance of upgrading one of your drops, while now you still have the chance of upgrading both of them.
Maybe we have a miscommunication here. I never said one item was replaced from the table. I am just confirming that elite packs will drop a rare always at full stack post-1.0.3.
On June 20 2012 07:49 Babaganoush wrote: Yes I've been getting three rares from elite packs now. But again, the only change in 1.0.3. is that one rare is guaranteed, never was in 1.0.2.
And I frigging give up on Ghom for now. It's impossible. At least for a Wizard. I heard Barbs can tank it with enough resists and LoH.
No, the change is that the 1 rare item is aditional. That's a big diference. That means when you are getting 3 rares, you would have gotten only 2. Guaranteeing one rare would mean that you still got the same amount of items, but one of them would be rare 100% of the time. Not only it that would be a worse change for you, since it's basically -1 item drop per elite, it would probally make MF less usefull, since you only increased the chance of upgrading one of your drops, while now you still have the chance of upgrading both of them.
Maybe we have a miscommunication here. I never said one item was replaced from the table. I am just confirming that elite packs will drop a rare always at full stack post-1.0.3.
It's two things, first you previously said "Blizzard never added an extra rare to elite packs", which is basically what they did. So it's not exactly surprising I thought you meant something else.
Then there's the misconception that MF makes you find more magic/rare/legendary items, when what it does is make the items that drop have a better chance of being of a higher quality. It's not really a huge issue, but some times you can see people testing MF and having wrong conclusions because they don't see an increase on the amout of drops. It's just better to put things is words that are easily understandable. Guarateeing one of your drops to be rare means just that, guaranteeing one of the items that drops is a rare. Adding an extra item makes it clear is a completelly diferent mechanic unrelated to MF.
On June 20 2012 07:22 ShivaN wrote: Has anyone else noticed since the patch that Azmodan's Hell Grasps are doing dmg way outside of their graphical range as they spread out? Making him pretty impossible for me, as I've died to it every attempt now. ;\
Nothing has changed, I have experienced this before, as well as with meteors in A4, Ghom "invisible death" poin clouds and many others.
On June 20 2012 07:22 ShivaN wrote: Has anyone else noticed since the patch that Azmodan's Hell Grasps are doing dmg way outside of their graphical range as they spread out? Making him pretty impossible for me, as I've died to it every attempt now. ;\
Nothing has changed, I have experienced this before, as well as with meteors in A4, Ghom "invisible death" poin clouds and many others.
Also confirming this, Azmodan's Hell grasp has been glitchy since well before the patch.
This patch is such a big "fuck you" to hardcore players its unbelievable. Here i am, eagerly awaiting patch so i can progress in act 2 somewhat without farming goblins till my brain bleeds. And they go and buff the living hell out of bosses. The jailor on HC now? With that combo? How is anyone supposed to kill that without severly outgearing it?
On June 20 2012 10:03 unkkz wrote: This patch is such a big "fuck you" to hardcore players its unbelievable. Here i am, eagerly awaiting patch so i can progress in act 2 somewhat without farming goblins till my brain bleeds. And they go and buff the living hell out of bosses. The jailor on HC now? With that combo? How is anyone supposed to kill that without severly outgearing it?
Well they obviously want people to progress rather slower. Just farm stuff in A2, it's not like the chances are far worse than a3.
you lose durability even if you don't die, so the repair cost increase is stupid. now you lose money just by playing. and monsters dont drop much gold, and if the elites dont spawn with a bs combo and you do manage to kill them, they still might not drop a good loot that you can auction off.
translation you lose money just by playing the game because income < expenses (even if you dont die). horrible F----
I think they need to significantly lower regular repair costs and just increase the durability loss when you die - so you lose more gold for trying to zerg the monsters but not for regular play.
The repair cost IMO should have been exponential. They stated that they did this so people would stop corpse running, but losing this much money just because you got hit is a joke.
I'm a wizard so it doesnt really affect me, but I feel for you melees.
On June 20 2012 10:24 FairForever wrote: I think they need to significantly lower regular repair costs and just increase the durability loss when you die - so you lose more gold for trying to zerg the monsters but not for regular play.
exactly! that's what any competent game developer would have done. don't punish people for playing the game ffs.
On June 20 2012 10:24 FairForever wrote: I think they need to significantly lower regular repair costs and just increase the durability loss when you die - so you lose more gold for trying to zerg the monsters but not for regular play.
exactly! that's what any competent game developer would have done. don't punish people for playing the game ffs.
You're getting punished for getting hit, not playing the game.
The durability loss from regular play is trivial, anyway.
On June 20 2012 10:26 Babaganoush wrote: The repair cost IMO should have been exponential. They stated that they did this so people would stop corpse running, but losing this much money just because you got hit is a joke.
I'm a wizard so it doesnt really affect me, but I feel for you melees.
You practically can't die as a tank now, so it's kind of about the same repair bill as before.
Yaotzin, you do take durability loss as a melee, unless your using a weird build. It's unavoidable.
On June 20 2012 10:24 FairForever wrote: I think they need to significantly lower regular repair costs and just increase the durability loss when you die - so you lose more gold for trying to zerg the monsters but not for regular play.
exactly! that's what any competent game developer would have done. don't punish people for playing the game ffs.
You're getting punished for getting hit, not playing the game.
The durability loss from regular play is trivial, anyway.
and meelees get hit all the time.... because they are meelee.... so you are being punished for playing the game. its not trivial durability loss when gold isn't easy to make in the first place.
On June 20 2012 10:24 FairForever wrote: I think they need to significantly lower regular repair costs and just increase the durability loss when you die - so you lose more gold for trying to zerg the monsters but not for regular play.
exactly! that's what any competent game developer would have done. don't punish people for playing the game ffs.
You're getting punished for getting hit, not playing the game.
The durability loss from regular play is trivial, anyway.
Pretty sure weapons lose durability from attacking.
On June 20 2012 10:24 FairForever wrote: I think they need to significantly lower regular repair costs and just increase the durability loss when you die - so you lose more gold for trying to zerg the monsters but not for regular play.
exactly! that's what any competent game developer would have done. don't punish people for playing the game ffs.
You're getting punished for getting hit, not playing the game.
The durability loss from regular play is trivial, anyway.
Pretty sure weapons lose durability from attacking.
yes they definitely do.
terrible blizzard design. i really hope they roll this one back. its hard enough to earn gold as it is, even without dying to bs like nightmare frozen arcane jailers. or invulernable minions firechain molten etc etc etc. ugh.
On June 20 2012 10:24 FairForever wrote: I think they need to significantly lower regular repair costs and just increase the durability loss when you die - so you lose more gold for trying to zerg the monsters but not for regular play.
exactly! that's what any competent game developer would have done. don't punish people for playing the game ffs.
You're getting punished for getting hit, not playing the game.
The durability loss from regular play is trivial, anyway.
Pretty sure weapons lose durability from attacking.
Yep.
So they should remove durability altogether, yes? Since it only punishes you for playing the game.
Oh wait, they did that and everyone cried about that too.
On June 20 2012 10:03 unkkz wrote: This patch is such a big "fuck you" to hardcore players its unbelievable. Here i am, eagerly awaiting patch so i can progress in act 2 somewhat without farming goblins till my brain bleeds. And they go and buff the living hell out of bosses. The jailor on HC now? With that combo? How is anyone supposed to kill that without severly outgearing it?
He only has 4 modifiers, what happened when you find the same champion/elite in the wild? God forbid you actually play the game instead of skipping packs/leave game.
On June 20 2012 10:24 FairForever wrote: I think they need to significantly lower regular repair costs and just increase the durability loss when you die - so you lose more gold for trying to zerg the monsters but not for regular play.
exactly! that's what any competent game developer would have done. don't punish people for playing the game ffs.
You're getting punished for getting hit, not playing the game.
The durability loss from regular play is trivial, anyway.
Pretty sure weapons lose durability from attacking.
Yep.
So they should remove durability altogether, yes? Since it only punishes you for playing the game.
Oh wait, they did that and everyone cried about that too.
Where did that conclusion come from o_O I was pointing out that your statement was wrong, durability loss happens regardless of being hit.
On June 20 2012 10:24 FairForever wrote: I think they need to significantly lower regular repair costs and just increase the durability loss when you die - so you lose more gold for trying to zerg the monsters but not for regular play.
exactly! that's what any competent game developer would have done. don't punish people for playing the game ffs.
You're getting punished for getting hit, not playing the game.
The durability loss from regular play is trivial, anyway.
Pretty sure weapons lose durability from attacking.
Yep.
So they should remove durability altogether, yes? Since it only punishes you for playing the game.
Oh wait, they did that and everyone cried about that too.
wtf are you talking about when'd they remove durability?
bottom line its a stupid change. they could have accomplished the same thing by keeping repair cost same but increasing durability damage on death. instead you punish people for playing the game by making it so that they easily lose more money than they make. even if they dont die. please explain how that is not a punishment. go ahead. because you actually have completely failed to do so.
On June 20 2012 11:49 fishjie wrote: wtf are you talking about when'd they remove durability?
In alpha. They put it back in so they could punish you for dying.
bottom line its a stupid change. they could have accomplished the same thing by keeping repair cost same but increasing durability damage on death. instead you punish people for playing the game by making it so that they easily lose more money than they make. even if they dont die. please explain how that is not a punishment. go ahead. because you actually have completely failed to do so.
On June 20 2012 11:56 Yaotzin wrote: More gold sinks is always good.
Gold sinks that force you to make decisions are good (e.g. gambling from D2). Gold sinks that happen not as a choice, but are forced from the very act of playing the game are just annoying.
The thing that bothers me is that they changed drops so people wouldn't feel that they needed the auction house. With the new repair costs I need the auction house even more.
I don't care about anything. I will abide to any rule, nerf, whatever. Just please Blizzard....get rid of shielding and enrage timers. That's all I want. Shielding, Jailing, Fire Chain is not my idea of fun.
On June 20 2012 11:56 Yaotzin wrote: More gold sinks is always good.
the purpose of a gold sink is to prevent inflation. that's all well and good. however, if people are effectively making in less money than they are making due to expenses > income, then its no longer a gold sink, its a forced "pay to play" RMAH situation.
there goes the fun right out the window. let's say some poor guy decides to stick it out and kill the elites by cleverly separating them one by one and slowly but surely whittling them away. he hasn't died, but it just took a long time, and he took a lot of durability damage. he is rewarded with ....... a crappy item drop that can't be auctioned and vendors for 500 gold. oh crap his repair bill is in the thousands! oh wait that's not a reward that's a punishment.
It feels better being able to hunt packs for drops compared to running one boss over and over. And it's nice being able to occasionally get level 63 items.
Also since damage got nerfed started through act 2 again. Not getting stomped by everything is nice.
On June 20 2012 11:56 Yaotzin wrote: More gold sinks is always good.
Gold sinks that force you to make decisions are good (e.g. gambling from D2). Gold sinks that happen not as a choice, but are forced from the very act of playing the game are just annoying.
I don't understand why people can't see the decision. They spelled it out for you. Either farm easier content (act 1 inferno, die less, lower reward) or risk harder content (act 3/4 inferno,die more, greater chance of reward). At this point you shouldn't really be dying in act 1 at all, except to the strongest of elite combinations. Act 2 seems like a nice middle-ground so far. That seems like a damn good set of choices to me.
I think people came in expecting to be able to continue doing what they were doing: farming siegebreaker or azmodan endlessly with basically no drawback but boredom. Both my brother (wizard) and I (DH) can no longer do this without dying too much to make it worthwhile. It was a gravy train, it was fun for a little while, get really boring after a while, and more than anything, needed to end. This change alone has done huge things to close the gap between the OP ranged (wiz/dh) and melee, and they aren't done yet.
Now go do content that isn't end of act 3 and enjoy the game. That is what I am doing (on a monk no less, I die less).
On June 20 2012 12:52 HardlyNever wrote: I don't understand why people can't see the decision. They spelled it out for you. Either farm easier content (act 1 inferno, die less, lower reward) or risk harder content (act 3/4 inferno,die more, greater chance of reward). At this point you shouldn't really be dying in act 1 at all, except to the strongest of elite combinations. Act 2 seems like a nice middle-ground so far. That seems like a damn good set of choices to me.
Have you even read the complaints?
Again, the sensible way to accomplish what they wanted is to increase the durability loss on death. This punishes you for dying, but doesn't punish you for normal play. The problem is that the current change makes the repair costs significantly harsher even in scenarios where you're not dying.
On June 20 2012 12:52 HardlyNever wrote: I don't understand why people can't see the decision. They spelled it out for you. Either farm easier content (act 1 inferno, die less, lower reward) or risk harder content (act 3/4 inferno,die more, greater chance of reward). At this point you shouldn't really be dying in act 1 at all, except to the strongest of elite combinations. Act 2 seems like a nice middle-ground so far. That seems like a damn good set of choices to me.
Have you even read the complaints?
Again, the sensible way to accomplish what they wanted is to increase the durability loss on death. This punishes you for dying, but doesn't punish you for normal play. The problem is that the current change makes the repair costs significantly harsher even in scenarios where you're not dying.
I read the complaints, and realized these were people who were actually dying a lot and didn't want to admit it (or just wanted to complain, I don't know). Playing without dying costs you MAYBE 2k gold for every 30-45 min of farming. That is 2 larger gold pickups in inferno.
I was farming act 2 and dying what I'd call a reasonable amount (1-2 times on packs, with the very rare death on trash). My gold was going up. Gold was inflating way too fast, if repairs need to go up to curb that (even repairs from not dying), that is fine with me. It affects everyone, so it doesn't really have an affect on the economy.
It seems like a really thin excuse to me. I don't feel like just me killing stuff costs a lot of gold at all.
On June 20 2012 12:05 Brawndo wrote: The thing that bothers me is that they changed drops so people wouldn't feel that they needed the auction house. With the new repair costs I need the auction house even more.
How does this make any sense whatsoever?
I only ever felt an urge to use the RMAH when I was stuck on that "wall" where A1 dropped shit and I couldn't upgrade from that but I also wasn't close to being able to farm A3. The gear I needed to farm A3 only dropped in A3 so it really fucked me up and made me feel like RMAH was the only solution (I'm sure a large number of players felt similarly).
Now that A1 can actually drop the best stuff I have never felt any urge to use the RMAH, knowing that patience will eventually pay off. I don't even see how repair costs make you want to go to the Auction House.
1.03 went a HUGE way to curbing a lot of people's "need" to go to the RMAH.
Does the change to loot dropping mean that Ponyland cloud clearing isn't as viable? Meaning, you can't swap to MF gear after clearing the mobs and jst pop all the clouds for drops?
On June 20 2012 13:56 EchelonTee wrote: Does the change to loot dropping mean that Ponyland cloud clearing isn't as viable? Meaning, you can't swap to MF gear after clearing the mobs and jst pop all the clouds for drops?
Most likely as clouds would count the same as vases and chests.
The Champion packs are still pretty decent, because none of the mobs have any annoying bonus features on them. Ponies are probably slightly faster than a few. But other than that the mob types are fairly easy. Then it just comes down to the affix combos you get.
But yeah, without clouds, Ponyland is definitely less lucrative.
On June 20 2012 11:56 Yaotzin wrote: More gold sinks is always good.
the purpose of a gold sink is to prevent inflation. that's all well and good. however, if people are effectively making in less money than they are making due to expenses > income, then its no longer a gold sink, its a forced "pay to play" RMAH situation.
there goes the fun right out the window. let's say some poor guy decides to stick it out and kill the elites by cleverly separating them one by one and slowly but surely whittling them away. he hasn't died, but it just took a long time, and he took a lot of durability damage. he is rewarded with ....... a crappy item drop that can't be auctioned and vendors for 500 gold. oh crap his repair bill is in the thousands! oh wait that's not a reward that's a punishment.
Playing hardcore as a level 60 barb, and a level 60 Demonhunter. I never have this issue. The problem is your dying too much and should farm elsewhere. If its taking you that long to kill a mob or champ pack that your durability is dropping in significant numbers, than your character just isn't ready for the location your at and you should farm in a previous area. With level 5 valor in act 1 inferno you can ez make 100k per hour just killing elite packs if your not dying, and if your not dying you really don't have to repair that often. In fact, I only usually have to repair once a day. And that's if I am playing all day. If your dying a lot you have 2 options. 1, save money for the repairs since you know your going to die a lot, and 2, farm in a previous area until your character can actually handle the location your trying to farm.
Now on a side not, if durability is dropping faster for melee classes than it is for ranged, that most definitely needs to be equalized. But I think it should be increased in cost for ranged rather than decreased for melee. Like others have said gold sinks help the world go round in this game. Hence why in Softcore the most expensive weapons are 150 million gold, while in hardcore the most expensive weapons of equal stats are 10 million gold.
I'm among those that are happy with this patch. I have to note that I didn't invest much at all into attack speed so I wasn't butthurt there. I did buy one IAS ring for 2 mils, but with a 2-hander it still feels worthy.
My DPS went down considerably, yet I just walk through Act 2 one-shotting everything, gathering up Archon armor pieces. Elite mobs take about 20 seconds to kill. For the first time I teleport through normal mobs ignoring them in search for elites. It feels like D2 again. Nostalgia is satisfied :D
On June 20 2012 15:31 xavra41 wrote: I think this patch is great, but I guess that I am alone in thinking that.
Nope, fully agree, great patch.
No, it's very good patch overall.. A lot of streamers and good players also say so. It's just this pessimistic unforgiving comunity that hates everything.
I haven't researched much about how all the gold sinks/economy interacts, but the gem change is pretty huge. I must have spent about 200k couple of days ago... wish I had waited.
On June 20 2012 07:49 Babaganoush wrote: Yes I've been getting three rares from elite packs now. But again, the only change in 1.0.3. is that one rare is guaranteed, never was in 1.0.2.
And I frigging give up on Ghom for now. It's impossible. At least for a Wizard. I heard Barbs can tank it with enough resists and LoH.
No, the change is that the 1 rare item is aditional. That's a big diference. That means when you are getting 3 rares, you would have gotten only 2. Guaranteeing one rare would mean that you still got the same amount of items, but one of them would be rare 100% of the time. Not only it that would be a worse change for you, since it's basically -1 item drop per elite, it would probally make MF less usefull, since you only increased the chance of upgrading one of your drops, while now you still have the chance of upgrading both of them.
Maybe we have a miscommunication here. I never said one item was replaced from the table. I am just confirming that elite packs will drop a rare always at full stack post-1.0.3.
It's two things, first you previously said "Blizzard never added an extra rare to elite packs", which is basically what they did. So it's not exactly surprising I thought you meant something else.
Then there's the misconception that MF makes you find more magic/rare/legendary items, when what it does is make the items that drop have a better chance of being of a higher quality. It's not really a huge issue, but some times you can see people testing MF and having wrong conclusions because they don't see an increase on the amout of drops. It's just better to put things is words that are easily understandable. Guarateeing one of your drops to be rare means just that, guaranteeing one of the items that drops is a rare. Adding an extra item makes it clear is a completelly diferent mechanic unrelated to MF.
Just to add a bit of information to the elite dropping x items now. In the patchnotes it does not only state that elites will drop 1 additional rare with 5 stacks of NV, it also states that elites in hell & inferno do not drop 2 magical items by default anymore.
Hmmm so I cant test it for myself since I'm in vacations for 2 weeks but this patch looks fine. I don't get what the QQ is all about ? Please enlighten me.
-IAS nerf. Seems 15% ias was a bit much compared to +stat, +crit. Isn't it more equal now between these 3 way of getting damage ? -Nerf damage. Seems like melee now have a chance and can have fun again in A3 ? Some people claim its too easy now even. Also since damage are nerfed.... resistances look now useful for ranged classes right ? Unless it was a small nerf of course but so far people seem to report its very easy with reasonable resistances. Shouldn't this make coop a lot better ? And playing with a melee friend that kinda tank viable again ? -Repair costs. Well glass canon gears have been hit very hard so I can understand that, but with the previous point if resistances are now really viable shouldn't also ranged die less ? -Better loot tables. Looks like going in A1 or A2 is now ok and you wouldn't feel inefficient playing with a friend that is still in those acts. -MF for pots. Yeah I dont really care.
Granted, the item system is still horrible (dull affixes, sucky legendaries) but that is not something introduced in 1.0.3.
After over 80 hours played, finally found my first legendary today. It was a crappy axe that'll probably sell for less than 100k, but still pretty cool! :D
Also, is it just me, or is this the most pointless and random update ever?
Weapon racks will no longer drop weapons 100% of the time
On June 20 2012 16:26 rezoacken wrote: Hmmm so I cant test it for myself since I'm in vacations for 2 weeks but this patch looks fine. I don't get what the QQ is all about ? Please enlighten me.
-IAS nerf. Seems 15% ias was a bit much compared to +stat, +crit. Isn't it more equal now between these 3 way of getting damage ? -Nerf damage. Seems like melee now have a chance and can have fun again in A3 ? Some people claim its too easy now even. Also since damage are nerfed.... resistances look now useful for ranged classes right ? Unless it was a small nerf of course but so far people seem to report its very easy with reasonable resistances. Shouldn't this make coop a lot better ? And playing with a melee friend that kinda tank viable again ? -Repair costs. Well glass canon gears have been hit very hard so I can understand that, but with the previous point if resistances are now really viable shouldn't also ranged die less ? -Better loot tables. Looks like going in A1 or A2 is now ok and you wouldn't feel inefficient playing with a friend that is still in those acts. -MF for pots. Yeah I dont really care.
Granted, the item system is still horrible (dull affixes, sucky legendaries) but that is not something introduced in 1.0.3.
reasonable post i agree with everything, especially the MF for pots -- that one seems like it was aimed at bots/farmers in any case
On June 20 2012 12:10 matiK23 wrote: I don't care about anything. I will abide to any rule, nerf, whatever. Just please Blizzard....get rid of shielding and enrage timers. That's all I want. Shielding, Jailing, Fire Chain is not my idea of fun.
lol jailer +mortar + waller blues and a shielding + invulnerable minions + teleporting last night in the same area. my demon hunter didn't stand a fucking chance. i gave up after an hour of struggling and no way to progress because the shit was right in front of the exit i needed to take and i had no way to lure them away. nearly finished all my gold on repairing.
DMG nerf is too low, prepatch i was taking ~14k dmg from lowest monsters in A3, now Im taking ~9k ffs...
Wizard with 6,8k+ armor 800@, so there is still absolutely no way that DHs or WDs (since they can have max 4k armor even with shield and 500res with rop1 gear in game...) with no skills to increase armor/resists can ever make durable char - great work Blizz.
Pretty much still the best way to "play" game is to have pure DPS glasscanon builds, vitality, armor and resistances are still totally useless stats and all you can do is terrain abuse, endless kiting even vs normal mobs and all this patch changed is that if DH spends 100M on gear instead of 20M, he will now maybe have chance to surive 1 hit instead of insta death to everything. Just base whole gameplay on killing monsters with long ranged shots outside of screen, and hoping to smoke screen/dogde everything.
Good thing though is that they dinally turned A1-A2 to real Diablo...
On June 20 2012 18:28 Sek-Kuar wrote: DMG nerf is too low, prepatch i was taking ~14k dmg from lowest monsters in A3, now Im taking ~9k ffs...
Wizard with 6,8k+ armor 800@, so there is still absolutely no way that DHs or WDs (since they can have max 4k armor even with shield and 500res with rop1 gear in game...) with no skills to increase armor/resists can ever make durable char - great work Blizz.
Pretty much still the best way to "play" game is to have pure DPS glasscanon builds, vitality, armor and resistances are still totally useless stats and all you can do is terrain abuse, endless kiting even vs normal mobs and all this patch changed is that if DH spends 100M on gear instead of 20M, he will now maybe have chance to surive 1 hit instead of insta death to everything. Just base whole gameplay on killing monsters with long ranged shots outside of screen, and hoping to smoke screen/dogde everything.
Good thing though is that they dinally turned A1-A2 to real Diablo...
Exactly what i felt about playing my WD and DH. I'd much prefer it if all characters did about the same amount of damage and had decent chances of surviving in survival equipment. Hope my monk will be more fun eventually.
If youre taking 9K thats 5 hits before dying with 40K life. I still don't see a issue here. Ranged are not supposed to tank 15hits.
I was having a very fine time with my wizard dying in 3 hits. Now you say I can achieve 5 hits with prismatic ? great. And with my 1500 life per second regen, thats one hit refilled in 6second And then you think about playing with a barb friend and its definetly worth it I think.
I wont speak about WD and DH since I dont play them but my WD friend was able to withstand 2 hits before nerf, if he is now at 4 he's probably very happy.
Of course you can argue I don't play this patch yet but so far I have only seen glasscanon complaining that they still die but have bigger repair bills. It sucks having to find allres but at least now it looks viable, no ?
On the other hand, WD pets still suck it seems. This is unacceptable.
Well, I think a lot of people that are complaining about repair costs were playing beyond their gear. But because the penalty for death was so low, it didn't really matter. If you played diablo 2 at the beginning, you would lose 5-10 minutes of xp (more at higher levels). So if you died 6-7 an hours, you wouldn't be able to level. I guess people who thought they were 'farming' act 3 are actually only geared for act 2.
On June 20 2012 18:56 rezoacken wrote: If youre taking 9K thats 5 hits before dying with 40K life. I still don't see a issue here. Ranged are not supposed to tank 15hits.
What game genre are you talking about? Different genre have different standars...
Im talking about Diablo, which is supposed to be action RPG, not this I dont know how to call it where you have to kite and terrain abuse every normal mob you meet.
Honestly, D2 was like 100 more action than D3 even in A1 with A3 gear... I really wonder what should be D3 genre called.
On June 20 2012 19:12 Yaotzin wrote: D2 was simply much easier, that's the only difference. If you're overgeared in D3 the mob stomping feels much the same.
You are miles away from true, I had solo A3 prepatch gear and still A1 is 100x less action that D2 ever was. So instead of making game harder they just changed it to different genre...
Maybe they could simply make strategy game, that would also be "harder" than D2. Its not like D3 is really something different anyway, feels like most of the time you are just planning where to pull mobs and how to abuse terrain to not get hit while killing them from safe distance...
Still, the problem is very obvious. Game is balanced around fact that 1-2 classes can get to 10k armor and 1k allres, wizard is somewhere in middle and WDs and DHs with their 3k armor 400@ at best will rather just go pureglasscannon. GJ really.
On June 20 2012 19:35 Vladoks wrote: did they buff belial phase 3? he didnt take the same damage as pre-patch and we hit the enrage timer
You got nerfed, belial didn't get buffed. He didn't have an enrage timer previously(not that I know of anyways), so hitting it isn't really a surprise You need to deal a little over 1.5 mil a minute or around 25k actual dps in phase 3 to beat enrage.
Hardest boss right now though has to go to Ghom. Very harsh gear check for melee's, requiring good survivability, but very high amounts of damage because time on target is probably around 70-80%, and for ranged, they need to position perfectly essentially, or the room will fill up and they die anyways despite ghom being very kitable.
TBH though this is what boss fights should've been from the start. On normal/nightmare they don't do anything out of the ordinary, and then hell they gain a mechanic, and inferno the fight changes drastically. Keep the drops the way they were prepatch, and just buff bosses to actually be epic and difficult. For example, on butcher have fire buff butcher to gain 20% MS/Damage/Aspd/Size(important).
It's probably rng bad day, but I have been farming for 2 hours act3, got like 50 yellows but no ilvl 63 and even mostly <ilvl 60. Since drop rates have been increased this doesn't make sense. Anyone has some experience about it ?
^^ I think act 3 in general go nerfed pretty hard in terms of drop rates. A lot of people who are farming act 3 seem to have this issue. I was going around act 1 and found 2 63's in teh weeping morrow lol, and then 1 more from the butcher.
Might be one of their temporary silent ninja fixes to wean people off siege breaker runs and look at other areas.
Like the patch changes in general, but then ias nerf made the game feel really really slow. D3 was already missing that frentic action from d2, this makes it feel like a tortoise.
On June 20 2012 19:49 Gevna wrote: It's probably rng bad day, but I have been farming for 2 hours act3, got like 50 yellows but no ilvl 63 and even mostly <ilvl 60. Since drop rates have been increased this doesn't make sense. Anyone has some experience about it ?
Believe it or not, drops got NERFED. 2%/4%/8% or w/e the rate is will probably bring more ilvl 63 items in the market as a whole, but for individual farming, you will find LESS ilvl63 gear than you did before(assuming you were able to farm act 3/4 prepatch).
On June 20 2012 19:49 Gevna wrote: It's probably rng bad day, but I have been farming for 2 hours act3, got like 50 yellows but no ilvl 63 and even mostly <ilvl 60. Since drop rates have been increased this doesn't make sense. Anyone has some experience about it ?
Believe it or not, drops got NERFED. 2%/4%/8% or w/e the rate is will probably bring more ilvl 63 items in the market as a whole, but for individual farming, you will find LESS ilvl63 gear than you did before(assuming you were able to farm act 3/4 prepatch).
Yeah I'm farming act 3/4 for a long time, and was looting 1 or 2 (sometimes even more) ilvl 63 per siegebreaker run (which means 8-12yellows). That's why I'm surprised today. I'm going to try other areas.
Can someone enlighten me, whats the difference in Act 3 and Act 4 drops? Since in patch notes it's clearly written both have 8% for 63ilvl drop, does it means that they are equal in terms of farming? (exept A3 seems a lot easier) Or maybe there is something else? Like better chance to get higher rolls?
On June 20 2012 20:51 DnameIN wrote: Can someone enlighten me, whats the difference in Act 3 and Act 4 drops? Since in patch notes it's clearly written both have 8% for 63ilvl drop, does it means that they are equal in terms of farming? (exept A3 seems a lot easier) Or maybe there is something else? Like better chance to get higher rolls?
As far as I know nobody farms act 4 because its harder and the drops are the same as act 3. Edit: which is kinda stupid IMO.
On June 20 2012 20:51 DnameIN wrote: Can someone enlighten me, whats the difference in Act 3 and Act 4 drops? Since in patch notes it's clearly written both have 8% for 63ilvl drop, does it means that they are equal in terms of farming? (exept A3 seems a lot easier) Or maybe there is something else? Like better chance to get higher rolls?
As far as I know nobody farms act 4 because its harder and the drops are the same as act 3. Edit: which is kinda stupid IMO.
act 4 has an annoying amount of videos and such as well -.-
oh wow, i just did the whole tower + siegebreaker and bridge with a friend in act 3. 3 stashes FULL of unid'ed items an not ONE ilvl63 item. i'll try act 4 now.
Strange, because this morning i tested new patch doing some elites in Rakis crossing + full Azmo run. I didnt count, but I had 3-5 ilvl63 items, and one elite even popped with 3 rares (even w/o switching MF). Cydea is annoying, I will think about removing her from farming, and start clearing most of A3 on last quest.
The normal monsters in Act II, III and IV has become weaker but the champions/elite's packs I feel got buffed. Omg, wallers now just wall me in perfectly every time, even in a open area and then desecrate and arcane enchant me to death.
I really like the new drop changes: champ/elite packs dropping a guaranteed yellow and all ilevels dropping in Inferno. Now I'm actually swapping out to my MF gear before killing the packs in hopes of getting an ilevel 63 item.
The thing is, although I only found 1 meaningful item yesterday (which I actually used as an upgrade holy shit), it was a lot more fun than how the game was previously. Rolling on those high ilevel rares is addicting as hell, knowing that 2h could roll to be one of the best item in the game.
Even if there is going to be a large influx of ilevel 61+ items, its still a ridiculous chance to roll a perfect ilevel 63 item. There will be more gear available to everyone to push through inferno with whatever creative builds they can come up with, but top-end items will still retain their value.
On June 20 2012 23:15 Catyoul wrote: Previous numbers for loots in act 3 and act 4 :
ilvl 62 was ~25% ilvl 63 was ~20%
New numbers for act 3 and 4 :
ilvl 62 is 16.1% ilvl 63 is 8.0%
I find it interesting how they're spreading these numbers around. Unfortunately we don't have the player number actively participating in each Act of Inferno, so we can't see the overall amount of each ilevel coming into the game, but I'm wondering if they're trying to reduce ilevel 62 & 63 overall and increase 61.
Nether Tentacles was nerfed for me but I like how i'm not punished for going with a res build DH instead of a glass cannon. I also find i'm so much more careful playing the game and trying to avoid deaths, rather than being too lazy and letting myself die.
>Fixed a bug where players could turn in the same quest this is such bs, they had already nerfed all the useable ones, so why do it again. where the hell am I supposed to level hc char now?
Question about D2 for someone who played single-player only:
When Blizzard reset the ladders in D2 was that for hardcore, softcore or both? Due to the existence of the RMAH Blizzard doesn't have the freedom to reset the softcore ladder in D3, and I'm wondering if that is different from what happened in D2.
On June 20 2012 23:15 Razith wrote: I really like the new drop changes: champ/elite packs dropping a guaranteed yellow and all ilevels dropping in Inferno. Now I'm actually swapping out to my MF gear before killing the packs in hopes of getting an ilevel 63 item.
Your MF gear will not help with the ilevel. It will only make a lv 63 blue to a lv 63 rare. That's all. Not a 62 to a 63.
On June 20 2012 23:30 escobari wrote: >Fixed a bug where players could turn in the same quest this is such bs, they had already nerfed all the useable ones, so why do it again. where the hell am I supposed to level hc char now?
On June 20 2012 23:30 bonifaceviii wrote: Question about D2 for someone who played single-player only:
When Blizzard reset the ladders in D2 was that for hardcore, softcore or both? Due to the existence of the RMAH Blizzard doesn't have the freedom to reset the softcore ladder in D3, and I'm wondering if that is different from what happened in D2.
Why is that question for single-player only? When ladder reset in D2, all characters, hardcore and softcore, were changed from ladder characters to regular characters. If you wanted a ladder character you had to start fresh. As a result there was a D2 softcore ladder, D2 hardcore ladder, LoD softcore ladder, and LoD hardcore ladder.
But you're right, with the RMAH they don't really have the option of resetting the softcore ladder in D3. But it's not the sort of thing they should be thinking about doing until the game has plateaued a bit in terms of gaming experience. I forget when they introduced ladder resets to D2 but I feel like it wasn't at launch.
On June 20 2012 18:28 Sek-Kuar wrote: DMG nerf is too low, prepatch i was taking ~14k dmg from lowest monsters in A3, now Im taking ~9k ffs...
Wizard with 6,8k+ armor 800@, so there is still absolutely no way that DHs or WDs (since they can have max 4k armor even with shield and 500res with rop1 gear in game...) with no skills to increase armor/resists can ever make durable char - great work Blizz.
Pretty much still the best way to "play" game is to have pure DPS glasscanon builds, vitality, armor and resistances are still totally useless stats and all you can do is terrain abuse, endless kiting even vs normal mobs and all this patch changed is that if DH spends 100M on gear instead of 20M, he will now maybe have chance to surive 1 hit instead of insta death to everything. Just base whole gameplay on killing monsters with long ranged shots outside of screen, and hoping to smoke screen/dogde everything.
Good thing though is that they dinally turned A1-A2 to real Diablo...
Its like we're playing a different game. As a dh with ~30k hp and 450 all resist (not sure about armor, maybe ~2200) I'm now able to take 3-4 spears in act 3 without dying. I'm even considering switching to a "tank" dh build with shadow power-gloom, sentry-guardian turret, and numbing traps for an additional 105% damage reduction so in theory I'll be able to take 7-8 hits which should give me plenty of time to regen/life steal and thats wo using a shield. I have a decent 1-hander w/ ~600 loh so I could use a shield also if wanted and take even more hits. I'm only waiting til this weekend to do a little more farming so I can get some crit chance gloves and another ring because I'm going to use night stalker to build up disclipine to keep shadow power active when needed. There is no way this build would have worked before 1.03.
On June 20 2012 23:30 bonifaceviii wrote: Question about D2 for someone who played single-player only:
When Blizzard reset the ladders in D2 was that for hardcore, softcore or both? Due to the existence of the RMAH Blizzard doesn't have the freedom to reset the softcore ladder in D3, and I'm wondering if that is different from what happened in D2.
But you're right, with the RMAH they don't really have the option of resetting the softcore ladder in D3. But it's not the sort of thing they should be thinking about doing until the game has plateaued a bit in terms of gaming experience. I forget when they introduced ladder resets to D2 but I feel like it wasn't at launch.
Blizzard could create a separate ladder game-mode in the same way that HC is currently implemented, with a separate AH and no RMAH. Players can then create a new ladder-char or continue on their regular characters. When the ladder is reset, all ladder chars are dumped on the regular stack, just like with D2.
Due to the RMAH, Blizzard can't reset the current game-state, but nothing prevents them from adding a resettable game-mode in parallel in an upcoming patch.
Every session I play since 1.0.3 I find more and more things that were supposedly fixed but are clearly not! And even more bugs that appear on top of that!
On June 20 2012 22:48 Yaotzin wrote: Yah I'm getting walled in perfectly all the time too. Thank gawd for teleport.
On my dh last night, I got walls on top of me a few times. I couldn't move at all.
Echoing other posters, I think act 3 drops have been nerfed. I killed Cydaea/Azmodan and over 20 champion/elite packs last night. I got mostly level 50ish trash rares and barely got any level 63 ones. Even level 62 and 61 rares were uncommon among all the level 50ish trash. Feels like they nerfed act 3 drop rates to compensate for making level 63 drops available in acts 1 and 2.
On June 21 2012 00:17 dezi wrote: This patch is insanely bad - i'm not a millionaire - just destroyed all i build up. Unfinished game just got worse ~
I lost close to 50% of my dps, and most of my gear that I bought for 3m+ became uber crap... However, since I lost most of my gear (I was solo farming act3-4) I am now back in farming act2...It prolounged the game for me...not so bad so stop whining you will just have fun for a longer time on d3...
-The patch is good and it is way better now to play in team instead of alone since tanks can actually tank now! It is great and fun!!!
-Drops are still meh tho...but it is an improvement! Legendary buffs incoming cant be more happy!
-PvP on the way right when everyone will have cleared inferno at least once!
-If it is too easy, try hardcore whiners!
-AH needs some work but everyone knows it and they know it!
- The game is way better than at release already...give it some time and it will be a good game! D2 vanilla was pretty sucky just like d3 vanilla! Give it some times!
They really did make farming a looot more painful, costly and less rewarding with this patch. Well, I never planned on making any money with the RMAH anyway, that'd be the only reason to endure this shit.
"Tried the adventuring life, didn't care for it. Too much pain, not enough profit."
In case those missed it in the other thread, act 3/4 ilvl63 drop rate was severely nerfed. It went from ~25% to the 8% we have now. This is why your runs have become worse in terms of ilvl63 items. To clarify, that isn't 25% chance an ilvl63 rare will drop, it's 25% chance that when a rare drops it's ilvl63. However, now it's only 8% in the hardest acts of the game.
So not only did they make the farming take longer by emphasising hunting packs they made it 1/3 less potentially lucrative. It's not like with their awful as fuck item roll system having the old drop rate was game breaking. At least it was nice to get 15 shitty centurion spears in a row because you had a chance. Now, 8%? Well, fuck that, have fun.
I've already been spoilt by the previous awesome drop rates for A3 and it feels like there's not much incentive for me to farm A3 anymore after the patch. I think I'll farm the AH if I need gold for now and see if anything will be done to the drop rates in the future.
Bleh, after reading all these posts and farming for a few runs to no avail (no ilvl 63s), I'm probably just going to take a break from this game, I don't really like the direction it's heading in. It's just brainless farm since the mobs don't hit for anything, but the repairs outweigh most of the gold earned from the runs.
I'd like to start by saying that I like this patch, think it was great for the game, and am looking forward to the game getting even better. I don't like every single last aspect of it, especially changing gear feels a little wrong, and lot of people lost virtual or even real money because their gear went down in value. This definitely happened to my friend playing a wizard who stacked basically all IAS, and even to me to a lesser extent. We both still feel the patch is for the best in the long run.
That said, I feel like this will be a breaking point for a lot of players. It seems like a lot of people were playing simply to get the best items in the game, period. Now that seems fine at first blush, but if you dig a little deeper into what that means, it is really hard to get "fun" into that equation. The logic pre-patch seemed to follow something like this:
"I farm act 3 to get the best items. I want to the best items so I can farm act 3 more and get more of the best items. I might go kill diablo once, then come back to farming act 3 (or maybe whimseyshire), so I can get more of the best items so I can farm act 3 some more."
Somewhere along the way, fun has to factor into that, and it seems really hard to get to. Now you might say "I was farming act 3 to sell stuff on the RMAH." Which is a totally fair point, and something I indulged in a bit. However, with the change in loot, ilvl 63 stuff will be more accessible to everyone. Being one of the "elite" (and I use that term loosely) that can farm act3/whimseyshire isn't nearly as valuable, in terms of real money, as it was prepatch.
What I'm getting at is I think a lot of people stopped having fun actually playing the game(killing monsters, with a small chance for cool loot) a while ago, and this patch will really bring that to the front. The "loot" aspect of the equation has been greatly reduced, and I think a lot of the "fun" part of the game for a lot of people went with it. I still enjoy killing monsters, with a small chance at good loot, in large part because I'm still doing it with friends. But I can see a lot of people leaving the game now, because the "loot fun" part has been reduced.
It was possible before the patch to know if an item was ilvl 62 or 63 from the name/skin. Those numbers were collected from independent people stats on reddit.
On June 21 2012 01:03 crms wrote: In case those missed it in the other thread, act 3/4 ilvl63 drop rate was severely nerfed. It went from ~25% to the 8% we have now. This is why your runs have become worse in terms of ilvl63 items. To clarify, that isn't 25% chance an ilvl63 rare will drop, it's 25% chance that when a rare drops it's ilvl63. However, now it's only 8% in the hardest acts of the game.
So not only did they make the farming take longer by emphasising hunting packs they made it 1/3 less potentially lucrative. It's not like with their awful as fuck item roll system having the old drop rate was game breaking. At least it was nice to get 15 shitty centurion spears in a row because you had a chance. Now, 8%? Well, fuck that, have fun.
I see a lot of posts quoting this 25% number but no source. I do not remember ever seeing blizzard ever post pre-patch drops numbers.
Act 3 farming was obviously way better than it was intended to be, I don't understand how anyone is surprised that it was nerfed. And anyone that can't even afford their repairs from their runs clearly is dying to much to be in that area and should be somewhere easier.
On June 21 2012 01:03 crms wrote: To clarify, that isn't 25% chance an ilvl63 rare will drop, it's 25% chance that when a rare drops it's ilvl63. However, now it's only 8% in the hardest acts of the game.
I run with very little MF, and I am getting much more than 3 times as many rares dropping as I did before (thanks to guaranteed rare from 5NV).
Admittedly I only farmed A2 before, but gonna try A3 when my internet next becomes playable. I think people went into this patch thinking that if they were suicide farming A3 before, they could now get 3 times as much good gear dropping every run which is not even close to what the patch is trying to achieve.
With the A3 drop nerf, I finally realize the errors of my ways: D3 is not an RPG game. Rather, it is a much more advanced multiplayer version of the game Recettear, where you manage an item shop and occasionally (and completely optional) go into a dungeon to gather loot to sell.
On June 21 2012 01:03 crms wrote: To clarify, that isn't 25% chance an ilvl63 rare will drop, it's 25% chance that when a rare drops it's ilvl63. However, now it's only 8% in the hardest acts of the game.
I run with very little MF, and I am getting much more than 3 times as many rares dropping as I did before (thanks to guaranteed rare from 5NV).
Admittedly I only farmed A2 before, but gonna try A3 when my internet next becomes playable. I think people went into this patch thinking that if they were suicide farming A3 before, they could now get 3 times as much good gear dropping every run which is not even close to what the patch is trying to achieve.
it doesn't matter how many rares you get if none of them are ilvl63... I'd take 5 ilvl63s over 25 ilv60-62s. Also nobody expected what you said, they straight up nerfed the act3/4 drop rate of ilvl63s. Nobody in act3 will be getting as good of gear, at least as efficiently as before.
It doesn't because the precendent of the diablo franchise is about efficiently farming loot. It's the only reason the game lasted 10+ years. Do you think killing mephisto 900,000,000 would have been 'fun' if the loot didn't drop? Looting, trading, selling, that's it, that's diablo.
On June 21 2012 01:03 crms wrote: To clarify, that isn't 25% chance an ilvl63 rare will drop, it's 25% chance that when a rare drops it's ilvl63. However, now it's only 8% in the hardest acts of the game.
I run with very little MF, and I am getting much more than 3 times as many rares dropping as I did before (thanks to guaranteed rare from 5NV).
Admittedly I only farmed A2 before, but gonna try A3 when my internet next becomes playable. I think people went into this patch thinking that if they were suicide farming A3 before, they could now get 3 times as much good gear dropping every run which is not even close to what the patch is trying to achieve.
it doesn't matter how many rares you get if none of them are ilvl63... I'd take 5 ilvl63s over 25 ilv60-62s. Also nobody expected what you said, they straight up nerfed the act3/4 drop rate of ilvl63s. Nobody in act3 will be getting as good of gear, at least as efficiently as before.
Let me put it in numbers for you. Assuming you're right about the numbers:
Before patch: 1 run of 20 elites + 1 boss: ~8 rares drop, 25% are ilvl 63 so in total I get 2 ilvl 63 rares After patch: 1 run of 20 elites + 1 boss: ~23 rares drop, 8% are ilvl 63 so in total I get 2 ilvl 63 rares, plus a ton more ilvl 61 and 62 rares
The number of ilvl 63 rares is unchanged (and that's assuming your numbers are right, which tbh sound too high pre-patch). You just get more other stuff too.
On June 20 2012 23:15 Catyoul wrote: Previous numbers for loots in act 3 and act 4 :
ilvl 62 was ~25% ilvl 63 was ~20%
New numbers for act 3 and 4 :
ilvl 62 is 16.1% ilvl 63 is 8.0%
Here are the independent sources I used for reference :
I sampled my spider/azmo runs for the past week and these were my results: Total Runs: 33 Total Rares: 483 Total Ilvl 63: 101 Avg Rares (per run): 14.64 Avg Ilvl 63 (per run): 3.00 Ilvl 63 Drop %: 20.91%
Not just you. I keep pretty detailed records of my runs. I've recorded 714 yellows pre-patch. Out of which: 136 were iLVL 63 (19%) 181 were iLVL 62 (25%) Did not record stats for lower level items.
Inferno makes a lot more sence now. I play demon hunter and previously it felt like you had to kill everything in a matter of seconds before it 1-shot you. I prepared well for the patch sitting on 40k hp and 500+ resistances and have yet to be 1-shot by anything. At the same time the fix to nether tentacles makes fights a lot longer so fights are a lot more fun. I die less while clearing time is about the same, maybe a bit longer due to the lack of dps but with less starting from checkpoint my time is better spent.
While dmg got reduced a lot of abilities and bosses were made harder which is great. What you have to do is a bit more complicated but also more forgiving. Mortars shoots from waaay out of the screen but I am not getting 1 shotted by it so there is room for error.
Tried Cydaea yet ? Went from a lootbag to take me 8 attempts but found a functional tac that should make it repeatable. Love the fight. In contrast Azmodan went from an extremely unforgiving bloodphase to an utter lootbag.
From a demon hunter who didnt play faceroll glasscannon I am overall very pleased with the changes to the class(even though we got nerfed(fixed!) hard) and inferno difficulty. It is much more enjoyable and sensible now. It just feels more right. Still not perfect I'd say though, would expect a lot of changes to happen in the comming months.
You get way more rares now, so they had to nerf the droprate on ilvl61-63s. I get at least 150% more rares now, which makes the number of ilvl63s the same as before. And of course, a ton more of everything else.
It was possible before the patch to know if an item was ilvl 62 or 63 from the name/skin. Those numbers were collected from independent people stats on reddit.
Alright, I second this based on my experience. I just did 3 full runs and got 6 bags full of some level 51 shit, got 1 yellow 63 and 1 yellow 62, maybe 5 rare 61s and that's it! All of the rare stuff that drops is <61 garbage! I've farmed only what I collected as gold. Considering increased repair costs, I'm probably up 60k in 2 hours and one questionable rare that I put up for 20k. That really sucks compare to pre-patch. Really. Going back to SC2 ^^
On June 21 2012 01:03 crms wrote: To clarify, that isn't 25% chance an ilvl63 rare will drop, it's 25% chance that when a rare drops it's ilvl63. However, now it's only 8% in the hardest acts of the game.
I run with very little MF, and I am getting much more than 3 times as many rares dropping as I did before (thanks to guaranteed rare from 5NV).
Admittedly I only farmed A2 before, but gonna try A3 when my internet next becomes playable. I think people went into this patch thinking that if they were suicide farming A3 before, they could now get 3 times as much good gear dropping every run which is not even close to what the patch is trying to achieve.
it doesn't matter how many rares you get if none of them are ilvl63... I'd take 5 ilvl63s over 25 ilv60-62s. Also nobody expected what you said, they straight up nerfed the act3/4 drop rate of ilvl63s. Nobody in act3 will be getting as good of gear, at least as efficiently as before.
Let me put it in numbers for you. Assuming you're right about the numbers:
Before patch: 1 run of 20 elites + 1 boss: ~8 rares drop, 25% are ilvl 63 so in total I get 2 ilvl 63 rares After patch: 1 run of 20 elites + 1 boss: ~23 rares drop, 8% are ilvl 63 so in total I get 2 ilvl 63 rares, plus a ton more ilvl 61 and 62 rares
The number of ilvl 63 rares is unchanged (and that's assuming your numbers are right, which tbh sound too high pre-patch). You just get more other stuff too.
Nobody would do 20 elites + 1 boss before patch, they would do 5 elites + boss, with 2 guaranteed rares on the boss, which was much faster. Your comparison is flawed.
It doesn't because the precendent of the diablo franchise is about efficiently farming loot. It's the only reason the game lasted 10+ years. Do you think killing mephisto 900,000,000 would have been 'fun' if the loot didn't drop? Looting, trading, selling, that's it, that's diablo.
That is your interpretation. I know a "lot" of people play diablo ONLY for the loot. I'm aware of this, and some of those people will be disappointed with this patch.
Killing mephisto 900,000,000 times WASN'T fun for me, that is one of many reasons I STOPPED playing diablo 2 (bots, dupes, etc. also), at least in a multiplayer setting, where after a few years the only remaining people on BNET were bots or people that played that way.
Different people find different things entertaining. For me, playing JUST for loot is boring and, when I think about it, sort of stupid. Killing monsters with somewhat interesting combat, trying new builds, trying new classes, playing with friends, getting loot. Those are the kinds of things I enjoy about Diablo 3. However, I think a lot of people only focus on just the loot. That is fine, different people like different things. Opinions work like that. This patch makes me enjoy the game more, because it seems geared more towards my way of having fun (but that is just my interpretation of it).
Just because you only focus on the loot aspect, doesn't mean everyone else does.
On June 21 2012 01:03 crms wrote: To clarify, that isn't 25% chance an ilvl63 rare will drop, it's 25% chance that when a rare drops it's ilvl63. However, now it's only 8% in the hardest acts of the game.
I run with very little MF, and I am getting much more than 3 times as many rares dropping as I did before (thanks to guaranteed rare from 5NV).
Admittedly I only farmed A2 before, but gonna try A3 when my internet next becomes playable. I think people went into this patch thinking that if they were suicide farming A3 before, they could now get 3 times as much good gear dropping every run which is not even close to what the patch is trying to achieve.
it doesn't matter how many rares you get if none of them are ilvl63... I'd take 5 ilvl63s over 25 ilv60-62s. Also nobody expected what you said, they straight up nerfed the act3/4 drop rate of ilvl63s. Nobody in act3 will be getting as good of gear, at least as efficiently as before.
Let me put it in numbers for you. Assuming you're right about the numbers:
Before patch: 1 run of 20 elites + 1 boss: ~8 rares drop, 25% are ilvl 63 so in total I get 2 ilvl 63 rares After patch: 1 run of 20 elites + 1 boss: ~23 rares drop, 8% are ilvl 63 so in total I get 2 ilvl 63 rares, plus a ton more ilvl 61 and 62 rares
The number of ilvl 63 rares is unchanged (and that's assuming your numbers are right, which tbh sound too high pre-patch). You just get more other stuff too.
Sure, but no one ever did 20 elites + 1 boss pre-patch.
I frequented one of the most lucrative farming sites - heart of sin, cydea/azmodan run. 7 elites + 2 bosses in about 20-25 min. I'd average about 12-15 rares per game.
I gave the new MF system a new whirl last night. Started from the breached keep (as there are no bosses before ghom), and spent three and a half hours clearing the entirety of act 3 including 3 goblins, 2 resplendent chests, 4 bosses, and 52 elite packs for a total of 97 rares.
Rares/time spent seems to be roughly the same pre and post patch (well, obviously it's a bit more in favor of pre-patch due to experience). I could probably speed that run up a bit more after I get a bit more familiar with monster mechanics, but regardless, there's no way I could possibly approach the amount of ilvl 63 items I was getting pre-patch.
Oh, and after the dust settled, I earned about 100k gold the entire time I spent in act3 - and I vendor everything that doesn't give me exquisite essences. Seems a bit harsh, I died once every two to three elite packs on average ...
On June 21 2012 01:03 crms wrote: To clarify, that isn't 25% chance an ilvl63 rare will drop, it's 25% chance that when a rare drops it's ilvl63. However, now it's only 8% in the hardest acts of the game.
I run with very little MF, and I am getting much more than 3 times as many rares dropping as I did before (thanks to guaranteed rare from 5NV).
Admittedly I only farmed A2 before, but gonna try A3 when my internet next becomes playable. I think people went into this patch thinking that if they were suicide farming A3 before, they could now get 3 times as much good gear dropping every run which is not even close to what the patch is trying to achieve.
it doesn't matter how many rares you get if none of them are ilvl63... I'd take 5 ilvl63s over 25 ilv60-62s. Also nobody expected what you said, they straight up nerfed the act3/4 drop rate of ilvl63s. Nobody in act3 will be getting as good of gear, at least as efficiently as before.
Let me put it in numbers for you. Assuming you're right about the numbers:
Before patch: 1 run of 20 elites + 1 boss: ~8 rares drop, 25% are ilvl 63 so in total I get 2 ilvl 63 rares After patch: 1 run of 20 elites + 1 boss: ~23 rares drop, 8% are ilvl 63 so in total I get 2 ilvl 63 rares, plus a ton more ilvl 61 and 62 rares
The number of ilvl 63 rares is unchanged (and that's assuming your numbers are right, which tbh sound too high pre-patch). You just get more other stuff too.
Nobody would do 20 elites + 1 boss before patch, they would do 5 elites + boss, with 2 guaranteed rares on the boss, which was much faster. Your comparison is flawed.
Then change how you farm? 20 elites + 1 boss (post patch) takes less time than 4 runs of 5 elites + 1 boss (pre patch), and thanks to having 5NV for longer will probably have given comparable drops even before patch.
EDIT: Hot damn Phael, how much base MF do you have? I was getting roughly 1 rare every 3 elite packs pre-patch with 5NV and no base MF, but you were averaging more than 1 rare per pack :o
On June 21 2012 01:03 crms wrote: To clarify, that isn't 25% chance an ilvl63 rare will drop, it's 25% chance that when a rare drops it's ilvl63. However, now it's only 8% in the hardest acts of the game.
I run with very little MF, and I am getting much more than 3 times as many rares dropping as I did before (thanks to guaranteed rare from 5NV).
Admittedly I only farmed A2 before, but gonna try A3 when my internet next becomes playable. I think people went into this patch thinking that if they were suicide farming A3 before, they could now get 3 times as much good gear dropping every run which is not even close to what the patch is trying to achieve.
it doesn't matter how many rares you get if none of them are ilvl63... I'd take 5 ilvl63s over 25 ilv60-62s. Also nobody expected what you said, they straight up nerfed the act3/4 drop rate of ilvl63s. Nobody in act3 will be getting as good of gear, at least as efficiently as before.
Let me put it in numbers for you. Assuming you're right about the numbers:
Before patch: 1 run of 20 elites + 1 boss: ~8 rares drop, 25% are ilvl 63 so in total I get 2 ilvl 63 rares After patch: 1 run of 20 elites + 1 boss: ~23 rares drop, 8% are ilvl 63 so in total I get 2 ilvl 63 rares, plus a ton more ilvl 61 and 62 rares
The number of ilvl 63 rares is unchanged (and that's assuming your numbers are right, which tbh sound too high pre-patch). You just get more other stuff too.
First, your numbers make 0 sense. 1 run of 20 elites and a boss? Who does this? How about you use actual values of 7 elites (on average) + 2 bosses, which was what the old cydea-azmodan runs actually entailed. And then consider ~25% of those rares generally were ilvl63. I'm glad you mathematically found a breaking point of 20 elites and 1 boss that makes the farming equal. I sure hope you enjoy your hour long runs and entire zone clearing searching for 20 packs, 15 of which would actually have the bonus.
On June 21 2012 01:03 crms wrote: To clarify, that isn't 25% chance an ilvl63 rare will drop, it's 25% chance that when a rare drops it's ilvl63. However, now it's only 8% in the hardest acts of the game.
I run with very little MF, and I am getting much more than 3 times as many rares dropping as I did before (thanks to guaranteed rare from 5NV).
Admittedly I only farmed A2 before, but gonna try A3 when my internet next becomes playable. I think people went into this patch thinking that if they were suicide farming A3 before, they could now get 3 times as much good gear dropping every run which is not even close to what the patch is trying to achieve.
it doesn't matter how many rares you get if none of them are ilvl63... I'd take 5 ilvl63s over 25 ilv60-62s. Also nobody expected what you said, they straight up nerfed the act3/4 drop rate of ilvl63s. Nobody in act3 will be getting as good of gear, at least as efficiently as before.
Let me put it in numbers for you. Assuming you're right about the numbers:
Before patch: 1 run of 20 elites + 1 boss: ~8 rares drop, 25% are ilvl 63 so in total I get 2 ilvl 63 rares After patch: 1 run of 20 elites + 1 boss: ~23 rares drop, 8% are ilvl 63 so in total I get 2 ilvl 63 rares, plus a ton more ilvl 61 and 62 rares
The number of ilvl 63 rares is unchanged (and that's assuming your numbers are right, which tbh sound too high pre-patch). You just get more other stuff too.
Nobody would do 20 elites + 1 boss before patch, they would do 5 elites + boss, with 2 guaranteed rares on the boss, which was much faster. Your comparison is flawed.
There is no guaranteed like that, I had 5 stacks and 140% mf and still had none with Siegebreaker. However last night me and my friends run about 15 elites and later on the drop rate were pretty good even without mf gear on, it was all 3 rare items for any elite packs from 10th to 15th.
On June 21 2012 01:03 crms wrote: To clarify, that isn't 25% chance an ilvl63 rare will drop, it's 25% chance that when a rare drops it's ilvl63. However, now it's only 8% in the hardest acts of the game.
I run with very little MF, and I am getting much more than 3 times as many rares dropping as I did before (thanks to guaranteed rare from 5NV).
Admittedly I only farmed A2 before, but gonna try A3 when my internet next becomes playable. I think people went into this patch thinking that if they were suicide farming A3 before, they could now get 3 times as much good gear dropping every run which is not even close to what the patch is trying to achieve.
it doesn't matter how many rares you get if none of them are ilvl63... I'd take 5 ilvl63s over 25 ilv60-62s. Also nobody expected what you said, they straight up nerfed the act3/4 drop rate of ilvl63s. Nobody in act3 will be getting as good of gear, at least as efficiently as before.
Let me put it in numbers for you. Assuming you're right about the numbers:
Before patch: 1 run of 20 elites + 1 boss: ~8 rares drop, 25% are ilvl 63 so in total I get 2 ilvl 63 rares After patch: 1 run of 20 elites + 1 boss: ~23 rares drop, 8% are ilvl 63 so in total I get 2 ilvl 63 rares, plus a ton more ilvl 61 and 62 rares
The number of ilvl 63 rares is unchanged (and that's assuming your numbers are right, which tbh sound too high pre-patch). You just get more other stuff too.
First, your numbers make 0 sense. 1 run of 20 elites and a boss? Who does this? How about you use actual values of 7 elites (on average) + 2 bosses, which was what the old cydea-azmodan runs actually entailed. And then consider ~25% of those rares generally were ilvl63. I'm glad you mathematically found a breaking point of 20 elites and 1 boss that makes the farming equal. I sure hope you enjoy your hour long runs and entire zone clearing searching for 20 packs, 15 of which would actually have the bonus.
low range 7 rares, 1.75 being ilvl63 @ 25% low range 7 rares, .056 being ilvl63 @ 8%
high range 13 rares, 3.25 being ilvl63 @ 25% high range 13 rares, 1.04% being ilvl63 @ 8%
That is a much more accurate portrayl of the massive nerf.. 20 elites and a boss.. the fuck?
I farmed by doing sections of acts with my friend (monk + barb). We'd go from start of "Find Kulle's blood" Q and finish with Kulle + rare serpent magus pack just before Belial. Didn't usually do Belial because it took us near 15 minutes (and there's no way we could do him now with enrage).
Looks like post patch, I don't have to change my farming pattern at all.
EDIT: When Blizzard give a massive buff to farming elites with 5NV and you choose not to take advantage of that by using a sub-optimal farming routine, that's your problem. Not anyone else's, and certainly not mine
On June 21 2012 01:50 Yaotzin wrote: You get way more rares now, so they had to nerf the droprate on ilvl61-63s. I get at least 150% more rares now, which makes the number of ilvl63s the same as before. And of course, a ton more of everything else.
The problem with increased rare drops is that in act3-4 almost all the rares I get are sub lvlv61, which are all trash.
Also increased repair costs really fucked me hard, built glass-cannon DH, it's so fucking expensive to do runs now, it's actually not worth it. Also item prices have been dropping unreasonably low, so now my Crafting of 6-property belts doesn't yield any return at all.
On June 21 2012 01:03 crms wrote: To clarify, that isn't 25% chance an ilvl63 rare will drop, it's 25% chance that when a rare drops it's ilvl63. However, now it's only 8% in the hardest acts of the game.
I run with very little MF, and I am getting much more than 3 times as many rares dropping as I did before (thanks to guaranteed rare from 5NV).
Admittedly I only farmed A2 before, but gonna try A3 when my internet next becomes playable. I think people went into this patch thinking that if they were suicide farming A3 before, they could now get 3 times as much good gear dropping every run which is not even close to what the patch is trying to achieve.
it doesn't matter how many rares you get if none of them are ilvl63... I'd take 5 ilvl63s over 25 ilv60-62s. Also nobody expected what you said, they straight up nerfed the act3/4 drop rate of ilvl63s. Nobody in act3 will be getting as good of gear, at least as efficiently as before.
Let me put it in numbers for you. Assuming you're right about the numbers:
Before patch: 1 run of 20 elites + 1 boss: ~8 rares drop, 25% are ilvl 63 so in total I get 2 ilvl 63 rares After patch: 1 run of 20 elites + 1 boss: ~23 rares drop, 8% are ilvl 63 so in total I get 2 ilvl 63 rares, plus a ton more ilvl 61 and 62 rares
The number of ilvl 63 rares is unchanged (and that's assuming your numbers are right, which tbh sound too high pre-patch). You just get more other stuff too.
Nobody would do 20 elites + 1 boss before patch, they would do 5 elites + boss, with 2 guaranteed rares on the boss, which was much faster. Your comparison is flawed.
old siegebreaker run: 5 elites + boss: 2 guaranteed rares, ~16 items that MF decides. new run: 20 elites + boss: 21 guaranteed rares, ~46 items that MF decides.
I'm ignoring the gradual gaining of valor in this because I can't be arsed.
For the old run to be better in terms of ilvl 63, it must gain >40% of the rares of the new system. Obviously in the above comparison the new run takes longer, but the old run gets 9.5%-27% of the rares of the new one (only guaranteed rares to all rares). So in conclusion, to match the old numbers, you need to do the old run in 25%-67.5% of the time of new run, in order to match it.
For me personally, this adds up to pretty much a wash. At the very least, the nerf isn't nearly as clear-cut as simply looking at 8% to 20%.
It doesn't because the precendent of the diablo franchise is about efficiently farming loot. It's the only reason the game lasted 10+ years. Do you think killing mephisto 900,000,000 would have been 'fun' if the loot didn't drop? Looting, trading, selling, that's it, that's diablo.
That is your interpretation. I know a "lot" of people play diablo ONLY for the loot. I'm aware of this, and some of those people will be disappointed with this patch.
Killing mephisto 900,000,000 times WASN'T fun for me, that is one of many reasons I STOPPED playing diablo 2 (bots, dupes, etc. also), at least in a multiplayer setting, where after a few years the only remaining people on BNET were bots or people that played that way.
Different people find different things entertaining. For me, playing JUST for loot is boring and, when I think about it, sort of stupid. Killing monsters with somewhat interesting combat, trying new builds, trying new classes, playing with friends, getting loot. Those are the kinds of things I enjoy about Diablo 3. However, I think a lot of people only focus on just the loot. That is fine, different people like different things. Opinions work like that. This patch makes me enjoy the game more, because it seems geared more towards my way of having fun (but that is just my interpretation of it).
Just because you only focus on the loot aspect, doesn't mean everyone else does.
This is not MMORPG. This is ARPG. I dont play Diablo 3 for interesting combats, playing with friends. I play Diablo 3 because I want to loot the boss corpse. Diablo 3 is utter crap now because of these WoW dipshits cried about how hard Inferno is. Inferno is supposed to be hard, not a walk in the park for you. Alot of people I know farmed like crazy before they can progress in Inferno. Before 1.0.3, a monk friend has problem with champion/elite pack. After 1.0.3, he just lolstand and tank. Inferno is easy now.
On June 21 2012 01:03 crms wrote: To clarify, that isn't 25% chance an ilvl63 rare will drop, it's 25% chance that when a rare drops it's ilvl63. However, now it's only 8% in the hardest acts of the game.
I run with very little MF, and I am getting much more than 3 times as many rares dropping as I did before (thanks to guaranteed rare from 5NV).
Admittedly I only farmed A2 before, but gonna try A3 when my internet next becomes playable. I think people went into this patch thinking that if they were suicide farming A3 before, they could now get 3 times as much good gear dropping every run which is not even close to what the patch is trying to achieve.
it doesn't matter how many rares you get if none of them are ilvl63... I'd take 5 ilvl63s over 25 ilv60-62s. Also nobody expected what you said, they straight up nerfed the act3/4 drop rate of ilvl63s. Nobody in act3 will be getting as good of gear, at least as efficiently as before.
Let me put it in numbers for you. Assuming you're right about the numbers:
Before patch: 1 run of 20 elites + 1 boss: ~8 rares drop, 25% are ilvl 63 so in total I get 2 ilvl 63 rares After patch: 1 run of 20 elites + 1 boss: ~23 rares drop, 8% are ilvl 63 so in total I get 2 ilvl 63 rares, plus a ton more ilvl 61 and 62 rares
The number of ilvl 63 rares is unchanged (and that's assuming your numbers are right, which tbh sound too high pre-patch). You just get more other stuff too.
First, your numbers make 0 sense. 1 run of 20 elites and a boss? Who does this? How about you use actual values of 7 elites (on average) + 2 bosses, which was what the old cydea-azmodan runs actually entailed. And then consider ~25% of those rares generally were ilvl63. I'm glad you mathematically found a breaking point of 20 elites and 1 boss that makes the farming equal. I sure hope you enjoy your hour long runs and entire zone clearing searching for 20 packs, 15 of which would actually have the bonus.
low range 7 rares, 1.75 being ilvl63 @ 25% low range 7 rares, .056 being ilvl63 @ 8%
high range 13 rares, 3.25 being ilvl63 @ 25% high range 13 rares, 1.04% being ilvl63 @ 8%
That is a much more accurate portrayl of the massive nerf.. 20 elites and a boss.. the fuck?
I farmed by doing sections of acts with my friend (monk + barb). We'd go from start of "Find Kulle's blood" Q and finish with Kulle + rare serpent magus pack just before Belial. Didn't usually do Belial because it took us near 15 minutes (and there's no way we could do him now with enrage).
Looks like post patch, I don't have to change my farming pattern at all.
EDIT: When Blizzard give a massive buff to farming elites with 5NV and you choose not to take advantage of that by using a sub-optimal farming routine, that's your problem. Not anyone else's, and certainly not mine
thanks for admitting defeat and that your proposed 20 elite strategy is not only a farce but complete bullocks. Farming efficiently for everyone who was good enough to do act 3/4 was severly nerfed into the ground. That's the point and you've been easily rebuked. Have a good day, enjoy act2.
On June 21 2012 01:50 Yaotzin wrote: You get way more rares now, so they had to nerf the droprate on ilvl61-63s. I get at least 150% more rares now, which makes the number of ilvl63s the same as before. And of course, a ton more of everything else.
The problem with increased rare drops is that in act3-4 almost all the rares I get are sub lvlv61, which are all trash.
No, 52% of the rares are sub ilvl 61. Unless you want to make a case that Blizzard are lying about those numbers?
On June 21 2012 01:03 crms wrote: To clarify, that isn't 25% chance an ilvl63 rare will drop, it's 25% chance that when a rare drops it's ilvl63. However, now it's only 8% in the hardest acts of the game.
I run with very little MF, and I am getting much more than 3 times as many rares dropping as I did before (thanks to guaranteed rare from 5NV).
Admittedly I only farmed A2 before, but gonna try A3 when my internet next becomes playable. I think people went into this patch thinking that if they were suicide farming A3 before, they could now get 3 times as much good gear dropping every run which is not even close to what the patch is trying to achieve.
it doesn't matter how many rares you get if none of them are ilvl63... I'd take 5 ilvl63s over 25 ilv60-62s. Also nobody expected what you said, they straight up nerfed the act3/4 drop rate of ilvl63s. Nobody in act3 will be getting as good of gear, at least as efficiently as before.
Let me put it in numbers for you. Assuming you're right about the numbers:
Before patch: 1 run of 20 elites + 1 boss: ~8 rares drop, 25% are ilvl 63 so in total I get 2 ilvl 63 rares After patch: 1 run of 20 elites + 1 boss: ~23 rares drop, 8% are ilvl 63 so in total I get 2 ilvl 63 rares, plus a ton more ilvl 61 and 62 rares
The number of ilvl 63 rares is unchanged (and that's assuming your numbers are right, which tbh sound too high pre-patch). You just get more other stuff too.
Nobody would do 20 elites + 1 boss before patch, they would do 5 elites + boss, with 2 guaranteed rares on the boss, which was much faster. Your comparison is flawed.
old siegebreaker run: 5 elites + boss: 2 guaranteed rares, ~16 items that MF decides. new run: 20 elites + boss: 21 guaranteed rares, ~46 items that MF decides.
I'm ignoring the gradual gaining of valor in this because I can't be arsed.
For the old run to be better in terms of ilvl 63, it must gain >40% of the rares of the new system. Obviously in the above comparison the new run takes longer, but the old run gets 9.5%-27% of the rares of the new one (only guaranteed rares to all rares). So in conclusion, to match the old numbers, you need to do the old run in 25%-67.5% of the time of new run, in order to match it.
For me personally, this adds up to pretty much a wash. At the very least, the nerf isn't nearly as clear-cut as simply looking at 8% to 20%.
Except the fact that thew new runs are way longer than old runs. the yield of ilvl63 per hour is way lower in patch 1.03
On June 21 2012 01:50 Yaotzin wrote: You get way more rares now, so they had to nerf the droprate on ilvl61-63s. I get at least 150% more rares now, which makes the number of ilvl63s the same as before. And of course, a ton more of everything else.
The problem with increased rare drops is that in act3-4 almost all the rares I get are sub lvlv61, which are all trash.
No, 52% of the rares are sub ilvl 61. Unless you want to make a case that Blizzard are lying about those numbers?
Before patch 1.03, I rarely got a rare below 61, most were 62-63.
Pre-patch Cydea + Azmodan (about 50-100 data points). 12-15 rares/20-25 min. 29-45 rares/hour - average of 37 rares/hour. Post-patch Entire act3 (one data point). 97 rares/3.5 hours. average of ~28 rares/hour.
I could up the second number by 25% probably after learning monster patterns better, but you get roughly the same number of rares pre and post patch, with less than half of the previous ilvl 63 turnout.
This is all done with 300MF swapping upon kill (which, btw, this patch has slightly nerfed - I kill about a quarter of my packs by accident without switching to MF gear now vs like 1/10th previously. Gotta get used to the lower hp bars ...)
Everyone already realizes this is a massive nerf to efficient farming. The only ones not acknowleding it are those that never progressed far enough to farm act 3 reliably or are trolling. It's quite simple really.
On June 21 2012 01:03 crms wrote: To clarify, that isn't 25% chance an ilvl63 rare will drop, it's 25% chance that when a rare drops it's ilvl63. However, now it's only 8% in the hardest acts of the game.
I run with very little MF, and I am getting much more than 3 times as many rares dropping as I did before (thanks to guaranteed rare from 5NV).
Admittedly I only farmed A2 before, but gonna try A3 when my internet next becomes playable. I think people went into this patch thinking that if they were suicide farming A3 before, they could now get 3 times as much good gear dropping every run which is not even close to what the patch is trying to achieve.
it doesn't matter how many rares you get if none of them are ilvl63... I'd take 5 ilvl63s over 25 ilv60-62s. Also nobody expected what you said, they straight up nerfed the act3/4 drop rate of ilvl63s. Nobody in act3 will be getting as good of gear, at least as efficiently as before.
Let me put it in numbers for you. Assuming you're right about the numbers:
Before patch: 1 run of 20 elites + 1 boss: ~8 rares drop, 25% are ilvl 63 so in total I get 2 ilvl 63 rares After patch: 1 run of 20 elites + 1 boss: ~23 rares drop, 8% are ilvl 63 so in total I get 2 ilvl 63 rares, plus a ton more ilvl 61 and 62 rares
The number of ilvl 63 rares is unchanged (and that's assuming your numbers are right, which tbh sound too high pre-patch). You just get more other stuff too.
Nobody would do 20 elites + 1 boss before patch, they would do 5 elites + boss, with 2 guaranteed rares on the boss, which was much faster. Your comparison is flawed.
Then change how you farm? 20 elites + 1 boss (post patch) takes less time than 4 runs of 5 elites + 1 boss (pre patch), and thanks to having 5NV for longer will probably have given comparable drops even before patch.
EDIT: Hot damn Phael, how much base MF do you have? I was getting roughly 1 rare every 3 elite packs pre-patch with 5NV and no base MF, but you were averaging more than 1 rare per pack :o
How I farm now is irrelevant to your comparison being flawed. You were comparing a completely suboptimal way of farming before the patch to what is probably the most efficient way of farming after the patch and obtaining similar results.
Of course now I won't be farming like that anymore, for a proper comparison, Phael has run the numbers with 300 MF, with lower MF, the numbers are closer because of the guaranteed rare on the elite packs :
On June 21 2012 02:22 Phael wrote: I gave a response earlier; here's the tldr:
Pre-patch Cydea + Azmodan (about 50-100 data points). 12-15 rares/20-25 min. 29-45 rares/hour - average of 37 rares/hour. Post-patch Entire act3 (one data point). 97 rares/3.5 hours. average of ~28 rares/hour.
I could up the second number by 25% probably after learning monster patterns better, but you get roughly the same number of rares pre and post patch, with less than half of the previous ilvl 63 turnout.
This is all done with 300MF swapping upon kill (which, btw, this patch has slightly nerfed - I kill about a quarter of my packs by accident without switching to MF gear now vs like 1/10th previously. Gotta get used to the lower hp bars ...)
On June 21 2012 02:28 crms wrote: Everyone already realizes this is a massive nerf to efficient farming. The only ones not acknowleding it are those that never progressed far enough to farm act 3 reliably or are trolling. It's quite simple really.
You really can't accept that people can reasonably disagree, can you?
They want to control the amount of high end items entering the game. Globally the same amount of ilvl 63 items are dropping, its just over a larger % of the population. Realistically if ilvl 63 items are dropping in act 1 now and there are more ppl in act 1 than act 3/4 they have to reduce that amount that was being dropped in act 3/4.
Its sad that people can switch gear before kill... They should made it like with skills so if u swap item outside of town there is cooldown before you can actually use it - swap whole gear and you are 30 sec naked or something like that.
On June 21 2012 02:28 crms wrote: Everyone already realizes this is a massive nerf to efficient farming. The only ones not acknowleding it are those that never progressed far enough to farm act 3 reliably or are trolling. It's quite simple really.
You really can't accept that people can reasonably disagree, can you?
how can you disagree with math? the old farming runs were much more efficient, there is no debate. I don't care if the runs are equal if you change the farming routes to be 20 elites, that's more time consuming, thus less efficient. It's been shown multiple times.
On June 21 2012 02:28 crms wrote: Everyone already realizes this is a massive nerf to efficient farming. The only ones not acknowleding it are those that never progressed far enough to farm act 3 reliably or are trolling. It's quite simple really.
You really can't accept that people can reasonably disagree, can you?
People can reasonably disagree. Your math is wrong. Different.
On June 21 2012 02:28 crms wrote: Everyone already realizes this is a massive nerf to efficient farming. The only ones not acknowleding it are those that never progressed far enough to farm act 3 reliably or are trolling. It's quite simple really.
You really can't accept that people can reasonably disagree, can you?
People can reasonably disagree. Your math is wrong. Different.
How is my math wrong?
how can you disagree with math? the old farming runs were much more efficient, there is no debate. I don't care if the runs are equal if you change the farming routes to be 20 elites, that's more time consuming, thus less efficient. It's been shown multiple times.
I addressed this. If you have a disagreement with what I actually said then say so. Don't bring up obvious points that I already talked about, it's just stupid.
On June 21 2012 02:09 Yaotzin wrote: old siegebreaker run: 5 elites + boss: 2 guaranteed rares, ~16 items that MF decides. new run: 20 elites + boss: 21 guaranteed rares, ~46 items that MF decides.
This is a flawed comparison as well though. The first 5 elites in an act are significantly easier to find than the last 5, due to the existence of zones with a higher concentration of rares, fixed-layout dungeons etc. If you're doing 5 elites+1 boss many times, then you hit these high-efficiency locations many more times. I'd actually expect doing 5 elites+1boss 4 times to be significantly faster than doing 20 elites+1 boss because finding elites in a new game is MUCH easier than finding them in a game where you've already cleared 10-15 elites.
Examples of such locations are the Watch Tower in act 1, or the Underbridge in act 3.
On June 21 2012 02:34 Sek-Kuar wrote: Its sad that people can switch gear before kill... They should made it like with skills so if u swap item outside of town there is cooldown before you can actually use it - swap whole gear and you are 30 sec naked or something like that.
Or just make it so that switching gear resets NV. I see no reason why you should be able to switch mid fight, and at the point where you are farming A3 Inferno you don't get enough upgrades for it to be a major inconvenience to have to wait until the end of your session to switch gear around.
On June 21 2012 01:03 crms wrote: To clarify, that isn't 25% chance an ilvl63 rare will drop, it's 25% chance that when a rare drops it's ilvl63. However, now it's only 8% in the hardest acts of the game.
I run with very little MF, and I am getting much more than 3 times as many rares dropping as I did before (thanks to guaranteed rare from 5NV).
Admittedly I only farmed A2 before, but gonna try A3 when my internet next becomes playable. I think people went into this patch thinking that if they were suicide farming A3 before, they could now get 3 times as much good gear dropping every run which is not even close to what the patch is trying to achieve.
it doesn't matter how many rares you get if none of them are ilvl63... I'd take 5 ilvl63s over 25 ilv60-62s. Also nobody expected what you said, they straight up nerfed the act3/4 drop rate of ilvl63s. Nobody in act3 will be getting as good of gear, at least as efficiently as before.
Let me put it in numbers for you. Assuming you're right about the numbers:
Before patch: 1 run of 20 elites + 1 boss: ~8 rares drop, 25% are ilvl 63 so in total I get 2 ilvl 63 rares After patch: 1 run of 20 elites + 1 boss: ~23 rares drop, 8% are ilvl 63 so in total I get 2 ilvl 63 rares, plus a ton more ilvl 61 and 62 rares
The number of ilvl 63 rares is unchanged (and that's assuming your numbers are right, which tbh sound too high pre-patch). You just get more other stuff too.
First, your numbers make 0 sense. 1 run of 20 elites and a boss? Who does this? How about you use actual values of 7 elites (on average) + 2 bosses, which was what the old cydea-azmodan runs actually entailed. And then consider ~25% of those rares generally were ilvl63. I'm glad you mathematically found a breaking point of 20 elites and 1 boss that makes the farming equal. I sure hope you enjoy your hour long runs and entire zone clearing searching for 20 packs, 15 of which would actually have the bonus.
low range 7 rares, 1.75 being ilvl63 @ 25% low range 7 rares, .056 being ilvl63 @ 8%
high range 13 rares, 3.25 being ilvl63 @ 25% high range 13 rares, 1.04% being ilvl63 @ 8%
That is a much more accurate portrayl of the massive nerf.. 20 elites and a boss.. the fuck?
I farmed by doing sections of acts with my friend (monk + barb). We'd go from start of "Find Kulle's blood" Q and finish with Kulle + rare serpent magus pack just before Belial. Didn't usually do Belial because it took us near 15 minutes (and there's no way we could do him now with enrage).
Looks like post patch, I don't have to change my farming pattern at all.
EDIT: When Blizzard give a massive buff to farming elites with 5NV and you choose not to take advantage of that by using a sub-optimal farming routine, that's your problem. Not anyone else's, and certainly not mine
thanks for admitting defeat and that your proposed 20 elite strategy is not only a farce but complete bullocks. Farming efficiently for everyone who was good enough to do act 3/4 was severly nerfed into the ground. That's the point and you've been easily rebuked. Have a good day, enjoy act2.
If you can farm A2 >50% quicker than A3, then it's actually wise to do so. There's also data coming in saying that farming efficiency hasn't changed much.
And it's "bollocks", not "bullocks". Bollocks is a British term for nonsense, while bullocks is a bull (castrated or non-castrated depending on where you live..)
On June 21 2012 02:09 Yaotzin wrote: old siegebreaker run: 5 elites + boss: 2 guaranteed rares, ~16 items that MF decides. new run: 20 elites + boss: 21 guaranteed rares, ~46 items that MF decides.
This is a flawed comparison as well though. The first 5 elites in an act are significantly easier to find than the last 5, due to the existence of zones with a higher concentration of rares, fixed-layout dungeons etc. If you're doing 5 elites+1 boss many times, then you hit these high-efficiency locations many more times. I'd actually expect doing 5 elites+1boss 4 times to be significantly faster than doing 20 elites+1 boss because finding elites in a new game is MUCH easier than finding them in a game where you've already cleared 10-15 elites.
Examples of such locations are the Watch Tower in act 1, or the Underbridge in act 3.
Yes of course, but unfortunately this is rather difficult to quantify. It depends on the act, how well you know the spawn locations, how many places you're forced to avoid (eg soul rippers or phasebeasts). So I left it out, as I left out having to start from 0 valor more often for boss runs.
The main point of the post anyway, was that simplistically comparing 8% to 20% is dumb. It's more complicated.
On June 21 2012 02:28 crms wrote: Everyone already realizes this is a massive nerf to efficient farming. The only ones not acknowleding it are those that never progressed far enough to farm act 3 reliably or are trolling. It's quite simple really.
You really can't accept that people can reasonably disagree, can you?
People can reasonably disagree. Your math is wrong. Different.
how can you disagree with math? the old farming runs were much more efficient, there is no debate. I don't care if the runs are equal if you change the farming routes to be 20 elites, that's more time consuming, thus less efficient. It's been shown multiple times.
I addressed this. If you have a disagreement with what I actually said then say so. Don't bring up obvious points that I already talked about, it's just stupid.
On June 21 2012 02:09 Yaotzin wrote: old siegebreaker run: 5 elites + boss: 2 guaranteed rares, ~16 items that MF decides. new run: 20 elites + boss: 21 guaranteed rares, ~46 items that MF decides.
old Az run: 7 pack + 2 boss: 4 guaranteed rare; ~20 item that MF decides, 5+ ilvl 63, TAKES 30 MIN. new run: 20 pack + boss: 21 guaranteed rare; ~46 item that MF decides, 5~ ilvl 63, TAKE 90 MIN.
On June 21 2012 02:09 Yaotzin wrote: old siegebreaker run: 5 elites + boss: 2 guaranteed rares, ~16 items that MF decides. new run: 20 elites + boss: 21 guaranteed rares, ~46 items that MF decides.
This is a flawed comparison as well though. The first 5 elites in an act are significantly easier to find than the last 5, due to the existence of zones with a higher concentration of rares, fixed-layout dungeons etc. If you're doing 5 elites+1 boss many times, then you hit these high-efficiency locations many more times. I'd actually expect doing 5 elites+1boss 4 times to be significantly faster than doing 20 elites+1 boss because finding elites in a new game is MUCH easier than finding them in a game where you've already cleared 10-15 elites.
Examples of such locations are the Watch Tower in act 1, or the Underbridge in act 3.
Yes of course, but unfortunately this is rather difficult to quantify. It depends on the act, how well you know the spawn locations, how many places you're forced to avoid (eg soul rippers or phasebeasts). So I left it out, as I left out having to start from 0 valor more often for boss runs.
The main point of the post anyway, was that simplistically comparing 8% to 20% is dumb. It's more complicated.
it would have to be act 3 or 4 to be relevent to the conversation and the fact you still think hunting down 20 elites and a boss will yield the same or equal efficiency as pre-patch cydea->azmodan is fucking MIND blowing.
On June 21 2012 01:03 crms wrote: To clarify, that isn't 25% chance an ilvl63 rare will drop, it's 25% chance that when a rare drops it's ilvl63. However, now it's only 8% in the hardest acts of the game.
I run with very little MF, and I am getting much more than 3 times as many rares dropping as I did before (thanks to guaranteed rare from 5NV).
Admittedly I only farmed A2 before, but gonna try A3 when my internet next becomes playable. I think people went into this patch thinking that if they were suicide farming A3 before, they could now get 3 times as much good gear dropping every run which is not even close to what the patch is trying to achieve.
it doesn't matter how many rares you get if none of them are ilvl63... I'd take 5 ilvl63s over 25 ilv60-62s. Also nobody expected what you said, they straight up nerfed the act3/4 drop rate of ilvl63s. Nobody in act3 will be getting as good of gear, at least as efficiently as before.
Let me put it in numbers for you. Assuming you're right about the numbers:
Before patch: 1 run of 20 elites + 1 boss: ~8 rares drop, 25% are ilvl 63 so in total I get 2 ilvl 63 rares After patch: 1 run of 20 elites + 1 boss: ~23 rares drop, 8% are ilvl 63 so in total I get 2 ilvl 63 rares, plus a ton more ilvl 61 and 62 rares
The number of ilvl 63 rares is unchanged (and that's assuming your numbers are right, which tbh sound too high pre-patch). You just get more other stuff too.
First, your numbers make 0 sense. 1 run of 20 elites and a boss? Who does this? How about you use actual values of 7 elites (on average) + 2 bosses, which was what the old cydea-azmodan runs actually entailed. And then consider ~25% of those rares generally were ilvl63. I'm glad you mathematically found a breaking point of 20 elites and 1 boss that makes the farming equal. I sure hope you enjoy your hour long runs and entire zone clearing searching for 20 packs, 15 of which would actually have the bonus.
low range 7 rares, 1.75 being ilvl63 @ 25% low range 7 rares, .056 being ilvl63 @ 8%
high range 13 rares, 3.25 being ilvl63 @ 25% high range 13 rares, 1.04% being ilvl63 @ 8%
That is a much more accurate portrayl of the massive nerf.. 20 elites and a boss.. the fuck?
I farmed by doing sections of acts with my friend (monk + barb). We'd go from start of "Find Kulle's blood" Q and finish with Kulle + rare serpent magus pack just before Belial. Didn't usually do Belial because it took us near 15 minutes (and there's no way we could do him now with enrage).
Looks like post patch, I don't have to change my farming pattern at all.
EDIT: When Blizzard give a massive buff to farming elites with 5NV and you choose not to take advantage of that by using a sub-optimal farming routine, that's your problem. Not anyone else's, and certainly not mine
thanks for admitting defeat and that your proposed 20 elite strategy is not only a farce but complete bullocks. Farming efficiently for everyone who was good enough to do act 3/4 was severly nerfed into the ground. That's the point and you've been easily rebuked. Have a good day, enjoy act2.
If you can farm A2 >50% quicker than A3, then it's actually wise to do so. There's also data coming in saying that farming efficiency hasn't changed much.
And it's "bollocks", not "bullocks". Bollocks is a British term for nonsense, while bullocks is a bull (castrated or non-castrated depending on where you live..)
Sorry about the bollocks.
Where is this data? I see shacky speculations at best, gross negligence at worst. Also act 2 would have to be cleared much faster than 1/2 the time. If it takes 20 elites + boss to equal a pre-patch act 3 run where the values went from 25ish-8, it would likely take 40 elites + 2 bosses (this could be way off, quick math durp) in act 2 to be of same value. So unless you can farm 40 act 2 elites and 2 bosses within 20-25 minutes, there is no fucking way act 2 will be better than pre-patch act 3.
On June 21 2012 02:34 Sek-Kuar wrote: Its sad that people can switch gear before kill... They should made it like with skills so if u swap item outside of town there is cooldown before you can actually use it - swap whole gear and you are 30 sec naked or something like that.
Or just make it so that switching gear resets NV. I see no reason why you should be able to switch mid fight, and at the point where you are farming A3 Inferno you don't get enough upgrades for it to be a major inconvenience to have to wait until the end of your session to switch gear around.
Too harsh IMO as it is even easier to missclick and change something that missclick and drag something on skill bar with elective mode on, which also resets NV.
But there should deinitelly be some penalty for this I rly doubt Blizzard wanted people to fight with 1 gear and kill with MF. Thats just abuse and it should be completely restricted.
On June 21 2012 02:09 Yaotzin wrote: old siegebreaker run: 5 elites + boss: 2 guaranteed rares, ~16 items that MF decides. new run: 20 elites + boss: 21 guaranteed rares, ~46 items that MF decides.
This is a flawed comparison as well though. The first 5 elites in an act are significantly easier to find than the last 5, due to the existence of zones with a higher concentration of rares, fixed-layout dungeons etc. If you're doing 5 elites+1 boss many times, then you hit these high-efficiency locations many more times. I'd actually expect doing 5 elites+1boss 4 times to be significantly faster than doing 20 elites+1 boss because finding elites in a new game is MUCH easier than finding them in a game where you've already cleared 10-15 elites.
Examples of such locations are the Watch Tower in act 1, or the Underbridge in act 3.
Yes of course, but unfortunately this is rather difficult to quantify. It depends on the act, how well you know the spawn locations, how many places you're forced to avoid (eg soul rippers or phasebeasts). So I left it out, as I left out having to start from 0 valor more often for boss runs.
The main point of the post anyway, was that simplistically comparing 8% to 20% is dumb. It's more complicated.
it would have to be act 3 or 4 to be relevent to the conversation and the fact you still think hunting down 20 elites and a boss will yield the same or equal efficiency as pre-patch cydea->azmodan is fucking MIND blowing.
a) I never said that. b) You're becoming an annoying troll. Can't you fuck off to some game you actually play?
On June 21 2012 02:09 Yaotzin wrote: old siegebreaker run: 5 elites + boss: 2 guaranteed rares, ~16 items that MF decides. new run: 20 elites + boss: 21 guaranteed rares, ~46 items that MF decides.
This is a flawed comparison as well though. The first 5 elites in an act are significantly easier to find than the last 5, due to the existence of zones with a higher concentration of rares, fixed-layout dungeons etc. If you're doing 5 elites+1 boss many times, then you hit these high-efficiency locations many more times. I'd actually expect doing 5 elites+1boss 4 times to be significantly faster than doing 20 elites+1 boss because finding elites in a new game is MUCH easier than finding them in a game where you've already cleared 10-15 elites.
Examples of such locations are the Watch Tower in act 1, or the Underbridge in act 3.
Yes of course, but unfortunately this is rather difficult to quantify. It depends on the act, how well you know the spawn locations, how many places you're forced to avoid (eg soul rippers or phasebeasts). So I left it out, as I left out having to start from 0 valor more often for boss runs.
The main point of the post anyway, was that simplistically comparing 8% to 20% is dumb. It's more complicated.
it would have to be act 3 or 4 to be relevent to the conversation and the fact you still think hunting down 20 elites and a boss will yield the same or equal efficiency as pre-patch cydea->azmodan is fucking MIND blowing.
a) I never said that. b) You're becoming an annoying troll. Can't you fuck off to some game you actually play?
if you don't find that to be the case, why in the fuck are you arguing? The entire point is people are upset that farming became less efficient. If you are on board with that line of thinking you're in agreement with everyone you've been arguing with for the last 5 pages. The fuck is going on?
On June 21 2012 02:34 Sek-Kuar wrote: Its sad that people can switch gear before kill... They should made it like with skills so if u swap item outside of town there is cooldown before you can actually use it - swap whole gear and you are 30 sec naked or something like that.
Or just make it so that switching gear resets NV. I see no reason why you should be able to switch mid fight, and at the point where you are farming A3 Inferno you don't get enough upgrades for it to be a major inconvenience to have to wait until the end of your session to switch gear around.
Too harsh IMO as it is even easier to missclick and change something that missclick and drag something on skill bar with elective mode on, which also resets NV.
But there should deinitelly be some penalty for this I rly doubt Blizzard wanted people to fight with 1 gear and kill with MF. Thats just abuse and it should be completely restricted.
Plenty of ways around it, but lets be honest here, there's always going to be some cheesy strategy or mechanic power-gamers will "exploit."
This one is fairly tame - have you tried killing a vamp boss in full MF gear? (not to mention the now higher repair costs ...)
You'll also be hurting "legitimate" gear swapping - for example, I switch to a 1400 life on hit staff when I go up against reflect damage mobs. Does that count as cheating in your book?
It's pretty simple, to me, if someone puts in the time and effort required to get themselves a suit of MF gear that can actually land finishing blows on bosses without dying, AND deal with an inventory that just got a third of it perma-locked, plus the annoyance of clicking 24 times per elite pack, then you know what, they deserve to get something out of it.
I'm not going to bother continuing to talk to you. You don't actually read what anyone says, you just respond - inevitably with hostility and venom - to some preconceived notion of what you think they're saying.
On June 21 2012 02:34 Sek-Kuar wrote: Its sad that people can switch gear before kill... They should made it like with skills so if u swap item outside of town there is cooldown before you can actually use it - swap whole gear and you are 30 sec naked or something like that.
Or just make it so that switching gear resets NV. I see no reason why you should be able to switch mid fight, and at the point where you are farming A3 Inferno you don't get enough upgrades for it to be a major inconvenience to have to wait until the end of your session to switch gear around.
Too harsh IMO as it is even easier to missclick and change something that missclick and drag something on skill bar with elective mode on, which also resets NV.
But there should deinitelly be some penalty for this I rly doubt Blizzard wanted people to fight with 1 gear and kill with MF. Thats just abuse and it should be completely restricted.
Plenty of ways around it, but lets be honest here, there's always going to be some cheesy strategy or mechanic power-gamers will "exploit."
This one is fairly tame - have you tried killing a vamp boss in full MF gear? (not to mention the now higher repair costs ...)
You'll also be hurting "legitimate" gear swapping - for example, I switch to a 1400 life on hit staff when I go up against reflect damage mobs. Does that count as cheating in your book?
It's pretty simple, to me, if someone puts in the time and effort required to get themselves a suit of MF gear that can actually land finishing blows on bosses without dying, AND deal with an inventory that just got a third of it perma-locked, plus the annoyance of clicking 24 times per elite pack, then you know what, they deserve to get something out of it.
Some people actually get gear with mf to play, so if this exploiting gives better results it needs to be fixed IMO.
I mean, how to justify that people sacrifice some survivability and DPS to have 100 extra MF, and other exploit swapping for final blow, playing with full DPS and survivability - with cheaper gear yet getting 200+ mf do you really consider 2x 10 click or something like that enought for all this benefits?
...do you honestly consider that 2x 10 click is justification for much easier gameplay, cheaper gear and yet better results? IMO its honestly just abuse...
On June 21 2012 01:03 crms wrote: To clarify, that isn't 25% chance an ilvl63 rare will drop, it's 25% chance that when a rare drops it's ilvl63. However, now it's only 8% in the hardest acts of the game.
I run with very little MF, and I am getting much more than 3 times as many rares dropping as I did before (thanks to guaranteed rare from 5NV).
Admittedly I only farmed A2 before, but gonna try A3 when my internet next becomes playable. I think people went into this patch thinking that if they were suicide farming A3 before, they could now get 3 times as much good gear dropping every run which is not even close to what the patch is trying to achieve.
it doesn't matter how many rares you get if none of them are ilvl63... I'd take 5 ilvl63s over 25 ilv60-62s. Also nobody expected what you said, they straight up nerfed the act3/4 drop rate of ilvl63s. Nobody in act3 will be getting as good of gear, at least as efficiently as before.
Let me put it in numbers for you. Assuming you're right about the numbers:
Before patch: 1 run of 20 elites + 1 boss: ~8 rares drop, 25% are ilvl 63 so in total I get 2 ilvl 63 rares After patch: 1 run of 20 elites + 1 boss: ~23 rares drop, 8% are ilvl 63 so in total I get 2 ilvl 63 rares, plus a ton more ilvl 61 and 62 rares
The number of ilvl 63 rares is unchanged (and that's assuming your numbers are right, which tbh sound too high pre-patch). You just get more other stuff too.
First, your numbers make 0 sense. 1 run of 20 elites and a boss? Who does this? How about you use actual values of 7 elites (on average) + 2 bosses, which was what the old cydea-azmodan runs actually entailed. And then consider ~25% of those rares generally were ilvl63. I'm glad you mathematically found a breaking point of 20 elites and 1 boss that makes the farming equal. I sure hope you enjoy your hour long runs and entire zone clearing searching for 20 packs, 15 of which would actually have the bonus.
low range 7 rares, 1.75 being ilvl63 @ 25% low range 7 rares, .056 being ilvl63 @ 8%
high range 13 rares, 3.25 being ilvl63 @ 25% high range 13 rares, 1.04% being ilvl63 @ 8%
That is a much more accurate portrayl of the massive nerf.. 20 elites and a boss.. the fuck?
I farmed by doing sections of acts with my friend (monk + barb). We'd go from start of "Find Kulle's blood" Q and finish with Kulle + rare serpent magus pack just before Belial. Didn't usually do Belial because it took us near 15 minutes (and there's no way we could do him now with enrage).
Looks like post patch, I don't have to change my farming pattern at all.
EDIT: When Blizzard give a massive buff to farming elites with 5NV and you choose not to take advantage of that by using a sub-optimal farming routine, that's your problem. Not anyone else's, and certainly not mine
thanks for admitting defeat and that your proposed 20 elite strategy is not only a farce but complete bullocks. Farming efficiently for everyone who was good enough to do act 3/4 was severly nerfed into the ground. That's the point and you've been easily rebuked. Have a good day, enjoy act2.
If you can farm A2 >50% quicker than A3, then it's actually wise to do so. There's also data coming in saying that farming efficiency hasn't changed much.
And it's "bollocks", not "bullocks". Bollocks is a British term for nonsense, while bullocks is a bull (castrated or non-castrated depending on where you live..)
Sorry about the bollocks.
Where is this data? I see shacky speculations at best, gross negligence at worst. Also act 2 would have to be cleared much faster than 1/2 the time. If it takes 20 elites + boss to equal a pre-patch act 3 run where the values went from 25ish-8, it would likely take 40 elites + 2 bosses (this could be way off, quick math durp) in act 2 to be of same value. So unless you can farm 40 act 2 elites and 2 bosses within 20-25 minutes, there is no fucking way act 2 will be better than pre-patch act 3.
Well, the pre-patch data was also compiled through shaky speculations. 20-25% was a number randomly thrown out, I don't know if anybody actually did the calculations to derive that number.
20 elites + boss in A3 = 21 guaranteed rares, dropping ilvl63 rares at 6% = 1.26 on average. 30 elites + boss in A3 = 31 guaranteed rares, dropping ilvl63 rares at 4% = 1.24 on average. Don't forget that killing more elites + more generic mobs equals more item drops which can be rares.
Don't forget that these rough calculations are pre-MF. If you can reliably switch gear to >300%, you get ~5 guaranteed ilvl63 drops, plus several more from generic mobs. Also, armor pieces lower then ilvl63 can still be good, few people bother about the slight increase in armor value.
On June 21 2012 02:34 Sek-Kuar wrote: Its sad that people can switch gear before kill... They should made it like with skills so if u swap item outside of town there is cooldown before you can actually use it - swap whole gear and you are 30 sec naked or something like that.
Or just make it so that switching gear resets NV. I see no reason why you should be able to switch mid fight, and at the point where you are farming A3 Inferno you don't get enough upgrades for it to be a major inconvenience to have to wait until the end of your session to switch gear around.
Too harsh IMO as it is even easier to missclick and change something that missclick and drag something on skill bar with elective mode on, which also resets NV.
But there should deinitelly be some penalty for this I rly doubt Blizzard wanted people to fight with 1 gear and kill with MF. Thats just abuse and it should be completely restricted.
Plenty of ways around it, but lets be honest here, there's always going to be some cheesy strategy or mechanic power-gamers will "exploit."
This one is fairly tame - have you tried killing a vamp boss in full MF gear? (not to mention the now higher repair costs ...)
You'll also be hurting "legitimate" gear swapping - for example, I switch to a 1400 life on hit staff when I go up against reflect damage mobs. Does that count as cheating in your book?
It's pretty simple, to me, if someone puts in the time and effort required to get themselves a suit of MF gear that can actually land finishing blows on bosses without dying, AND deal with an inventory that just got a third of it perma-locked, plus the annoyance of clicking 24 times per elite pack, then you know what, they deserve to get something out of it.
Some people actually get gear with mf to play, so if this exploiting gives better results it needs to be fixed IMO.
I mean, how to justify that people sacrifice some survivability and DPS to have 100 extra MF, and other exploit swapping for final blow, playing with full DPS and survivability - with cheaper gear yet getting 200+ mf do you really consider 2x 10 click or something like that...
do you honestly consider that 2x 10 click justification for much easier gameplay, cheaper gear and yet better results? IMO its honestly just abuse...
Firstly, you don't get better results with MF swap. Even if your MF is 100 lower than a full MF swap set, you will see equal or better. I get at least a quarter of my magical items from white mobs, and my MF suit obviously never affects those while people who roll in constant MF gear will have the bonus applied to them.
Secondly, as I mentioned previously, it's not the easiest thing in the world to successfully swap to a full MF suit, survive, and kill the boss. Pretty much everything one-shots you, you lose the lion's share of your damage and generally, your movement speed & attack speed bonuses as well so you steer like a pregnant whale.
Thirdly, due to the sheer killing power of your main gear, swapping to pure MF gear at the last second is hard to time. I'm attempting to swap when my target reaches half a million hp. Half. Why? Because if I fire off one last orb while venom hydra is ticking, I'm liable to straight up kill the boss if it crits. Half a mil is a fair number for a player with 0 survivability and low dps to whittle down. Not impossible, certainly, but definitely harder. Oh, and what about those mobs that die off screen, or those champ packs that have 2 mobs, or 4 mobs, or with illusion, any number of mobs that you have no idea which is the last one standing or not? Last night doing a full act3 clear, I screwed this up on at least a dozen packs where I accidentally killed the final monster without a switch to MF gear. This is unavoidable, unless you waste time constantly checking and scouting, after which you'll be equally as inefficient.
Finally, yes, there's the annoyance of having a third of your inventory on lockdown and having to click 20x per kill (you gotta put your gear back), then find health orbs or port to town to heal up.
So yeah, I consider all those disadvantages enough justification for the better (not extremely better, just better) performance of the MF gear swap. It's like marines in sc2 - if you can stutter step kite with a dozen marines against a dozen zealots(more annoyance, more effort), you'll get better results than attack moving with two dozen marines (more expensive.)
Edit: Oh, and one last thing - as far as I can tell, constant MF is significantly better than MF swapping for legendary items. Speaking from personal experience, so biased and all that, but 99% of legendary gear is looted from white monsters. I've personally picked up about ten legendary pieces, all of which were off of white mobs, and my friends have similar results. While that is sort of pointless now, it'll be big when unique items are buffed.
On June 21 2012 03:18 grs wrote: Hmm...I made a big mistake selling my high IAS weapon I think. The prices on the gold AH for weapon actually went up today?!
IAS weapon went up as relatively due to DPS. 900 DPS one hander with IAS worth more now than 900 one hander with IAS before, but your old DPS one hander with IAS also just became 750 one hander with IAS, which is completely worthless.
On June 21 2012 02:34 Sek-Kuar wrote: Its sad that people can switch gear before kill... They should made it like with skills so if u swap item outside of town there is cooldown before you can actually use it - swap whole gear and you are 30 sec naked or something like that.
Or just make it so that switching gear resets NV. I see no reason why you should be able to switch mid fight, and at the point where you are farming A3 Inferno you don't get enough upgrades for it to be a major inconvenience to have to wait until the end of your session to switch gear around.
Too harsh IMO as it is even easier to missclick and change something that missclick and drag something on skill bar with elective mode on, which also resets NV.
But there should deinitelly be some penalty for this I rly doubt Blizzard wanted people to fight with 1 gear and kill with MF. Thats just abuse and it should be completely restricted.
Plenty of ways around it, but lets be honest here, there's always going to be some cheesy strategy or mechanic power-gamers will "exploit."
This one is fairly tame - have you tried killing a vamp boss in full MF gear? (not to mention the now higher repair costs ...)
You'll also be hurting "legitimate" gear swapping - for example, I switch to a 1400 life on hit staff when I go up against reflect damage mobs. Does that count as cheating in your book?
It's pretty simple, to me, if someone puts in the time and effort required to get themselves a suit of MF gear that can actually land finishing blows on bosses without dying, AND deal with an inventory that just got a third of it perma-locked, plus the annoyance of clicking 24 times per elite pack, then you know what, they deserve to get something out of it.
Some people actually get gear with mf to play, so if this exploiting gives better results it needs to be fixed IMO.
I mean, how to justify that people sacrifice some survivability and DPS to have 100 extra MF, and other exploit swapping for final blow, playing with full DPS and survivability - with cheaper gear yet getting 200+ mf do you really consider 2x 10 click or something like that...
do you honestly consider that 2x 10 click justification for much easier gameplay, cheaper gear and yet better results? IMO its honestly just abuse...
Firstly, you don't get better results with MF swap. Even if your MF is 100 lower than a full MF swap set, you will see equal or better. I get at least a quarter of my magical items from white mobs, and my MF suit obviously never affect those while people who roll in constant MF gear will have their bonus applied to them.
Secondly, as I mentioned previously, it's not the easiest thing in the world to successfully swap to a full MF suit, survive, and kill the boss. Pretty much everything one-shots you, you lose the lion's share of your damage and generally, your movement speed & attack speed bonuses as well so you steer like a pregnant whale.
Thirdly, due to the sheer killing power of your main gear, swapping to pure MF gear at the last second is hard to time. I'm attempting to swap when my target reaches half a million hp. Half. Why? Because if I fire off one last orb while venom hydra is ticking, I'm liable to straight up kill the boss if it crits. Half a mil is a fair number for a player with 0 survivability and low dps to whittle down. Not impossible, certainly, but definitely harder. Oh, and what about those mobs that die off screen, or those champ packs that have 2 mobs, or 4 mobs, or with illusion, any number of mobs that you have no idea which is the last one standing or not? Last night doing a full act3 clear, I screwed this up on at least a dozen packs where I accidentally killed the final monster without a switch to MF gear. This is unavoidable, unless you waste time constantly checking and scouting, after which you'll be equally as inefficient.
Finally, yes, there's the annoyance of having a third of your inventory on lockdown and having to click 20x per kill (you gotta put your gear back), then find health orbs or port to town to heal up.
So yeah, I consider all those disadvantages enough justification for the better (not extremely better, just better) performance of the MF gear swap. It's like marines in sc2 - if you can stutter step kite with a dozen marines against a dozen zealots(more annoyance, more effort), you'll get better results than attack moving with two dozen marines (more expensive.)
If you can stack MF while maintaining dps/survivability, then good for you. If 3/4 of your drops come from elites. switching mf will increase the amount of rares dropped by 200++%.
With practice, it's not too difficult to swap to MF gear. You can also have a follower to distract the elite/dps it down after swapping. Swapping against illusionists shouldn't be a problem. If you have good AoE (which you do), the illusions pop very quickly, leaving behind the real ones. When you're left with 1-2 elites, it should be really easy to spot the real ones. Against uniques + minions, you should naturally be killing the minions (unless you have perfect casting accuracy and the minions don't block your shots). Also killing the minions first makes kiting a lot easier.
Edit to your edit: all but one of my legendaries came from breakable objects.. which don't drop items anymore.
On June 21 2012 03:18 grs wrote: Hmm...I made a big mistake selling my high IAS weapon I think. The prices on the gold AH for weapon actually went up today?!
IAS weapon went up as relatively due to DPS. 900 DPS one hander with IAS worth more now than 900 one hander with IAS before, but your old DPS one hander with IAS also just became 750 one hander with IAS, which is completely worthless.
On June 21 2012 02:34 Sek-Kuar wrote: Its sad that people can switch gear before kill... They should made it like with skills so if u swap item outside of town there is cooldown before you can actually use it - swap whole gear and you are 30 sec naked or something like that.
Or just make it so that switching gear resets NV. I see no reason why you should be able to switch mid fight, and at the point where you are farming A3 Inferno you don't get enough upgrades for it to be a major inconvenience to have to wait until the end of your session to switch gear around.
Too harsh IMO as it is even easier to missclick and change something that missclick and drag something on skill bar with elective mode on, which also resets NV.
But there should deinitelly be some penalty for this I rly doubt Blizzard wanted people to fight with 1 gear and kill with MF. Thats just abuse and it should be completely restricted.
Plenty of ways around it, but lets be honest here, there's always going to be some cheesy strategy or mechanic power-gamers will "exploit."
This one is fairly tame - have you tried killing a vamp boss in full MF gear? (not to mention the now higher repair costs ...)
You'll also be hurting "legitimate" gear swapping - for example, I switch to a 1400 life on hit staff when I go up against reflect damage mobs. Does that count as cheating in your book?
It's pretty simple, to me, if someone puts in the time and effort required to get themselves a suit of MF gear that can actually land finishing blows on bosses without dying, AND deal with an inventory that just got a third of it perma-locked, plus the annoyance of clicking 24 times per elite pack, then you know what, they deserve to get something out of it.
Some people actually get gear with mf to play, so if this exploiting gives better results it needs to be fixed IMO.
I mean, how to justify that people sacrifice some survivability and DPS to have 100 extra MF, and other exploit swapping for final blow, playing with full DPS and survivability - with cheaper gear yet getting 200+ mf do you really consider 2x 10 click or something like that...
do you honestly consider that 2x 10 click justification for much easier gameplay, cheaper gear and yet better results? IMO its honestly just abuse...
Firstly, you don't get better results with MF swap. Even if your MF is 100 lower than a full MF swap set, you will see equal or better. I get at least a quarter of my magical items from white mobs, and my MF suit obviously never affect those while people who roll in constant MF gear will have their bonus applied to them.
Secondly, as I mentioned previously, it's not the easiest thing in the world to successfully swap to a full MF suit, survive, and kill the boss. Pretty much everything one-shots you, you lose the lion's share of your damage and generally, your movement speed & attack speed bonuses as well so you steer like a pregnant whale.
Thirdly, due to the sheer killing power of your main gear, swapping to pure MF gear at the last second is hard to time. I'm attempting to swap when my target reaches half a million hp. Half. Why? Because if I fire off one last orb while venom hydra is ticking, I'm liable to straight up kill the boss if it crits. Half a mil is a fair number for a player with 0 survivability and low dps to whittle down. Not impossible, certainly, but definitely harder. Oh, and what about those mobs that die off screen, or those champ packs that have 2 mobs, or 4 mobs, or with illusion, any number of mobs that you have no idea which is the last one standing or not? Last night doing a full act3 clear, I screwed this up on at least a dozen packs where I accidentally killed the final monster without a switch to MF gear. This is unavoidable, unless you waste time constantly checking and scouting, after which you'll be equally as inefficient.
Finally, yes, there's the annoyance of having a third of your inventory on lockdown and having to click 20x per kill (you gotta put your gear back), then find health orbs or port to town to heal up.
So yeah, I consider all those disadvantages enough justification for the better (not extremely better, just better) performance of the MF gear swap. It's like marines in sc2 - if you can stutter step kite with a dozen marines against a dozen zealots(more annoyance, more effort), you'll get better results than attack moving with two dozen marines (more expensive.)
Those are not disadvantages, those are side-effect you deliberately choose by doing something you are not supposed to do during combat.
Thats same as logic as saying that if during box match one of boxer decides to dance for 2 second, he has right to pick knife after that... seriously.
And please stop pretending like openning inventory and 5-10 fast clicks takes more than 2 sec - you can pretend all you want but at the end all you saying is that you paid less, kill faster, die less yet you have right to arbitrary decide that you deserve more.
/shrug, feel free to get an MF set and try it out then. Grass is greener and all that. Having tried both ways (constant MF and MF swap), I feel that the MF swap is slightly superior, but not by an overwhelming margin.
On June 21 2012 02:34 Sek-Kuar wrote: Its sad that people can switch gear before kill... They should made it like with skills so if u swap item outside of town there is cooldown before you can actually use it - swap whole gear and you are 30 sec naked or something like that.
Or just make it so that switching gear resets NV. I see no reason why you should be able to switch mid fight, and at the point where you are farming A3 Inferno you don't get enough upgrades for it to be a major inconvenience to have to wait until the end of your session to switch gear around.
Too harsh IMO as it is even easier to missclick and change something that missclick and drag something on skill bar with elective mode on, which also resets NV.
But there should deinitelly be some penalty for this I rly doubt Blizzard wanted people to fight with 1 gear and kill with MF. Thats just abuse and it should be completely restricted.
Plenty of ways around it, but lets be honest here, there's always going to be some cheesy strategy or mechanic power-gamers will "exploit."
This one is fairly tame - have you tried killing a vamp boss in full MF gear? (not to mention the now higher repair costs ...)
You'll also be hurting "legitimate" gear swapping - for example, I switch to a 1400 life on hit staff when I go up against reflect damage mobs. Does that count as cheating in your book?
It's pretty simple, to me, if someone puts in the time and effort required to get themselves a suit of MF gear that can actually land finishing blows on bosses without dying, AND deal with an inventory that just got a third of it perma-locked, plus the annoyance of clicking 24 times per elite pack, then you know what, they deserve to get something out of it.
Some people actually get gear with mf to play, so if this exploiting gives better results it needs to be fixed IMO.
I mean, how to justify that people sacrifice some survivability and DPS to have 100 extra MF, and other exploit swapping for final blow, playing with full DPS and survivability - with cheaper gear yet getting 200+ mf do you really consider 2x 10 click or something like that...
do you honestly consider that 2x 10 click justification for much easier gameplay, cheaper gear and yet better results? IMO its honestly just abuse...
Firstly, you don't get better results with MF swap. Even if your MF is 100 lower than a full MF swap set, you will see equal or better. I get at least a quarter of my magical items from white mobs, and my MF suit obviously never affect those while people who roll in constant MF gear will have their bonus applied to them.
Secondly, as I mentioned previously, it's not the easiest thing in the world to successfully swap to a full MF suit, survive, and kill the boss. Pretty much everything one-shots you, you lose the lion's share of your damage and generally, your movement speed & attack speed bonuses as well so you steer like a pregnant whale.
Thirdly, due to the sheer killing power of your main gear, swapping to pure MF gear at the last second is hard to time. I'm attempting to swap when my target reaches half a million hp. Half. Why? Because if I fire off one last orb while venom hydra is ticking, I'm liable to straight up kill the boss if it crits. Half a mil is a fair number for a player with 0 survivability and low dps to whittle down. Not impossible, certainly, but definitely harder. Oh, and what about those mobs that die off screen, or those champ packs that have 2 mobs, or 4 mobs, or with illusion, any number of mobs that you have no idea which is the last one standing or not? Last night doing a full act3 clear, I screwed this up on at least a dozen packs where I accidentally killed the final monster without a switch to MF gear. This is unavoidable, unless you waste time constantly checking and scouting, after which you'll be equally as inefficient.
Finally, yes, there's the annoyance of having a third of your inventory on lockdown and having to click 20x per kill (you gotta put your gear back), then find health orbs or port to town to heal up.
So yeah, I consider all those disadvantages enough justification for the better (not extremely better, just better) performance of the MF gear swap. It's like marines in sc2 - if you can stutter step kite with a dozen marines against a dozen zealots(more annoyance, more effort), you'll get better results than attack moving with two dozen marines (more expensive.)
Those are not disadvantages, those are side-effect you deliberately choose by doing something you are not supposed to do during combat.
Thats same as logic as saying that if during box match one of boxer decides to dance for 2 second, he has right to pick knife after that... seriously.
And please stop pretending like openning inventory and 5-10 fast clicks takes more than 2 sec - you can pretend all you want but at the end all you saying is that you paid less, kill faster, die less yet you have right to arbitrary decide that you deserve more.
I don't know what's your point. He's saying that switching to mf is riskier and not particularly efficient, while you decided to re-characterize it as a side effect and spat out the same arguments in an abridged form.
And please stop with the bad analogies.. too many bad analogies are hurting my brain.
Edit:
On June 21 2012 03:47 Phael wrote: /shrug, feel free to get an MF set and try it out then. Grass is greener and all that. Having tried both ways (constant MF and MF swap), I feel that the MF swap is slightly superior, but not by an overwhelming margin.
It's been good for me so far. I've gotten a lot more items from MF-swapping compared to the times when I didn't do it.
Oh, I meant MF swapping and rolling with constant MF are both superior to having none (obviously), it's just a matter of which path is better. Constant MF gives reliability and convenience, while MF swapping is more of a bigger risk and effort/bigger reward thing.
On June 21 2012 03:47 Phael wrote: /shrug, feel free to get an MF set and try it out then. Grass is greener and all that. Having tried both ways (constant MF and MF swap), I feel that the MF swap is slightly superior, but not by an overwhelming margin.
"overwhelming margin" is what matters, because pure DPS/survivability gear good enough for A3 inferno can be bought for lets say 7m, decent mf setup is pretty minor thing, while less DPS/survivability gear with extra MF can cost 20+m.
So maybe its not better like 3 time and you only kill 20%+ faster and have 20%+ higher survivability (afterall even just that ametyst vs topaz in helm adds shitloads of HP), with 2x higher mf, but at the same time you paid not even 1/3...
Kinda destroys any meaning of progress in game if you can exploit something to get better results with so much cheaper gear and so much less effort.
On June 21 2012 03:47 Phael wrote: /shrug, feel free to get an MF set and try it out then. Grass is greener and all that. Having tried both ways (constant MF and MF swap), I feel that the MF swap is slightly superior, but not by an overwhelming margin.
"overwhelming margin" is what matters, because pure DPS/survivability gear good enough for A3 inferno can be bought for lets say 7m, decent mf setup is pretty minor thing, while less DPS/survivability gear with extra MF can cost 20+m.
So maybe its not better like 3 time and you only kill 20%+ faster and have 20%+ higher survivability (afterall even just that ametyst vs topaz in helm adds shitloads of HP), with 2x higher mf, but at the same time you paid not even 1/3...
Kinda destroys any meaning of progress in game if you can exploit something to get better results with so much cheaper gear and so much less effort.
You know what's REALLY destroy the progress in game? Borrow 20 mil friend, start farming A3 2nd day of starting and pay him back in a week. Too bad can't ban that.
On June 21 2012 03:56 Phael wrote: Oh, I meant MF swapping and rolling with constant MF are both superior to having none (obviously), it's just a matter of which path is better. Constant MF gives reliability and convenience, while MF swapping is more of a bigger risk and effort/bigger reward thing.
Well, most people can't afford good gear with high MF. I guess it depends on what basal level of MF you want: is it 50% (easy to attain without much effort) or closer to 200%?
I guess if you want the best of both worlds, just swap the amulet and helm. You can get 80-90 mf based on these two items alone.
On June 21 2012 03:56 Phael wrote: Oh, I meant MF swapping and rolling with constant MF are both superior to having none (obviously), it's just a matter of which path is better. Constant MF gives reliability and convenience, while MF swapping is more of a bigger risk and effort/bigger reward thing.
Well, most people can't afford good gear with high MF. I guess it depends on what basal level of MF you want: is it 50% (easy to attain without much effort) or closer to 200%?
I guess if you want the best of both worlds, just swap the amulet and helm. You can get 80-90 mf based on these two items alone.
Or maybe if they cant affor good mf gear they should go farm on hell with worse mf gear or play without mf gear?
What do you want from this game? If you cant affor gear to finish inferno, just type godlike mode cheat and kill everything?
Why do you propose different standards for mfruns and game progress?
On June 21 2012 03:56 Phael wrote: Oh, I meant MF swapping and rolling with constant MF are both superior to having none (obviously), it's just a matter of which path is better. Constant MF gives reliability and convenience, while MF swapping is more of a bigger risk and effort/bigger reward thing.
Well, most people can't afford good gear with high MF. I guess it depends on what basal level of MF you want: is it 50% (easy to attain without much effort) or closer to 200%?
I guess if you want the best of both worlds, just swap the amulet and helm. You can get 80-90 mf based on these two items alone.
Or maybe if they cant affor good mf gear they should go farm on hell with worse mf gear or play without mf gear?
What do you want from this game? If you cant affor gear to finish inferno, just type godlike mode cheat and kill everything?
Why do you propose different standards for mfruns and game progress?
I really have no idea what you're harping about. It seems to me that you're complaining for the sake of complaining.
On June 21 2012 03:56 Phael wrote: Oh, I meant MF swapping and rolling with constant MF are both superior to having none (obviously), it's just a matter of which path is better. Constant MF gives reliability and convenience, while MF swapping is more of a bigger risk and effort/bigger reward thing.
Well, most people can't afford good gear with high MF. I guess it depends on what basal level of MF you want: is it 50% (easy to attain without much effort) or closer to 200%?
I guess if you want the best of both worlds, just swap the amulet and helm. You can get 80-90 mf based on these two items alone.
Or maybe if they cant affor good mf gear they should go farm on hell with worse mf gear or play without mf gear?
What do you want from this game? If you cant affor gear to finish inferno, just type godlike mode cheat and kill everything?
Why do you propose different standards for mfruns and game progress?
I really have no idea what you're harping about. It seems to me that you're complaining for the sake of complaining.
And to me it seems that people like you want Blizzard to make game exactly as hard as only those who truly deserve it can finish it, but at the same time let there those exploits so when one knows it he can get better stuff than people who deserves it 10x more. Coincidentally during this progress also get items to finish game perhaps even make profit on RMAH.
I find that since patch, farming as a group is much more efficient. Yesterday I tried solo farming A3, spent close to 300k on repair with no drop worth AH, then did with a few friends, still nothing worth selling but at least not bleeding money from repairing.
Just need another 2mil to upgrade my boots then I will shelf farming and level some other chars.
On June 21 2012 04:45 wei2coolman wrote: The patch pretty much makes it so everyone who was 100% geared and have a stash of bestin slot rares, are pretty much untouched.
everyone who was grinding act 3 inferno, with good(but not best in slot) gear got screwed.
everyone who was having difficulty in act 2, likes this patch, but will soon reach the ranks of the aformentioned group.
this is pretty much it.
i cant wrap my head around these loot changes. everyone will lose interest in farming gear VERY QUICKLY...
On June 21 2012 03:56 Phael wrote: Oh, I meant MF swapping and rolling with constant MF are both superior to having none (obviously), it's just a matter of which path is better. Constant MF gives reliability and convenience, while MF swapping is more of a bigger risk and effort/bigger reward thing.
Well, most people can't afford good gear with high MF. I guess it depends on what basal level of MF you want: is it 50% (easy to attain without much effort) or closer to 200%?
I guess if you want the best of both worlds, just swap the amulet and helm. You can get 80-90 mf based on these two items alone.
Or maybe if they cant affor good mf gear they should go farm on hell with worse mf gear or play without mf gear?
What do you want from this game? If you cant affor gear to finish inferno, just type godlike mode cheat and kill everything?
Why do you propose different standards for mfruns and game progress?
I really have no idea what you're harping about. It seems to me that you're complaining for the sake of complaining.
And to me it seems that people like you want Blizzard to make game exactly as hard as only those who truly deserve it can finish it, but at the same time let there those exploits so when one knows it he can get better stuff than people who deserves it 10x more. Coincidentally during this progress also get items to finish game perhaps even make profit on RMAH.
Your reply has nothing to do with the argument about MF swapping. It's a poor attempt to bash me. So I'll state my stance: Yes I want the game to be hard so that any random bloke can't complete it without putting in some effort. However, any exploits should be nerfed to the ground. MF swapping is NOT an exploit. It has been known since D2, and it has been so widely propagated that it basically functions as a mechanic. Blizzard knows all about it, they left it in deliberately.
If you have farmed more, it's obvious that you'll make more profits on the RMAH. Duh. Thanks for pointing that out, Captain Obvious.
I'm fine with gear swapping, and fine if Blizz disable gear swapping (best way I see doing this is that you can only change equipment / skill outside the game). But if it's available then I will use it and won't tell anyone else to not use it.
Oh well, on one hand I lost 9k dps (42->33 with pierce the veil, WD), on the other, elites hit like paper towels in inferno now, can actually run around a grp of mortars (in dead zone) without getting 1-2 shot. On a third hand some builds are unusable to 5 NV farm now due to boss enrage timers (5NV -> Siegebreaker, killed right before I died from enrage, and can't do much more dps, and bears are bugged, so not really much better dps that I can get - was using Splinters/Haunt as dps abilities).
Actually, come to think about it, Bears builds are a lot more viable now cause of the lower dmg the mobs do - once the spell is fixed that is. I'd go as far as to say they got nerfed by 30%, but just a feeling, no proof.
On June 21 2012 05:39 ragz_gt wrote: I'm fine with gear swapping, and fine if Blizz disable gear swapping (best way I see doing this is that you can only change equipment / skill outside the game). But if it's available then I will use it and won't tell anyone else to not use it.
I could see gear swapping only be allowed outside of combat at some point. This allows to swap into mf gear before an elite pack / boss, but not at the last hit. This also allows for situational gear swaps (life on hit) for champ packs too.
In combat / out of combat mechanics do exist, or else the "survival" achievement / popup wouldn't exist.
how're you gonna get out of combat to swap in a life on hit weapon? Port home? Fat chance because by the time you see the pack with reflect damage it's too late, they're on your ass
On June 21 2012 05:39 ragz_gt wrote: I'm fine with gear swapping, and fine if Blizz disable gear swapping (best way I see doing this is that you can only change equipment / skill outside the game). But if it's available then I will use it and won't tell anyone else to not use it.
I could see gear swapping only be allowed outside of combat at some point. This allows to swap into mf gear before an elite pack / boss, but not at the last hit. This also allows for situational gear swaps (life on hit) for champ packs too.
In combat / out of combat mechanics do exist, or else the "survival" achievement / popup wouldn't exist.
which is one of the must bugged "popups" in the game as you well know. I can't count the times I've gotten it and died straight after, same for the savior stuff when playing in a party. Usually when i see savior I know I should head over and ress someone after the fight
On June 21 2012 07:50 KOFgokuon wrote: how're you gonna get out of combat to swap in a life on hit weapon? Port home? Fat chance because by the time you see the pack with reflect damage it's too late, they're on your ass
I dunno, I usually have time before engaging an elite pack, unless stuff keeps chain pulling. It was just an idea as a middle point between always allow and never allow (remove neph stacks)
Has anyone noticed that the number of elites per map seems to have a larger range? Previously on butcher runs, I've gotten 1-2 per map but now it's 1-4. I thought it was just random chance cause I don't do enough runs to have any meaningful sample but I just got TEN elites in watchtower. It was ridiculous and I've never heard of so many on a single map. There were 2 or 3 times 2 packs were grouped together. Then I did it again and got 1 total lol.
everyone who was grinding act 3 inferno, with good(but not best in slot) gear got screwed.
Dont feel that at all. I had around 70k dps before patch doing Azmo runs and selling anything worth >50 euro. So not anythng close to best in slot gear. After patch I dropped to 55k but still can farm him without dying more than 2-3 times.
On June 21 2012 08:27 KazeHydra wrote: Has anyone noticed that the number of elites per map seems to have a larger range? Previously on butcher runs, I've gotten 1-2 per map but now it's 1-4. I thought it was just random chance cause I don't do enough runs to have any meaningful sample but I just got TEN elites in watchtower. It was ridiculous and I've never heard of so many on a single map. There were 2 or 3 times 2 packs were grouped together. Then I did it again and got 1 total lol.
10 in Watch Tower is pretty crazy. I ran Watch Tower into the ground pre-patch and the most I ever got was 6.
On June 21 2012 08:37 skyR wrote: Butcher runs was never 1-2 per map.
I was only stating my personal experience, which was always 1-2, but I acknowledged I didn't do enough runs to have any meaningful sample. What about watchtower? I'm not suggesting I'm right but I've just never heard of having ten elites in that one map.
everyone who was grinding act 3 inferno, with good(but not best in slot) gear got screwed.
Dont feel that at all. I had around 70k dps before patch doing Azmo runs and selling anything worth >50 euro. So not anythng close to best in slot gear. After patch I dropped to 55k but still can farm him without dying more than 2-3 times.
Have you noticed the quality of your drops though?
Pre-patch, about half my items were lvl 62-63. Post-patch, less than a quarter of my items were lvl 62-63.
The latter is supported by blizzard patch notes, the previous from multiple loot recorders.
So sure, runs got a bit safer, and with practice, you probably get slightly more rares/hour (by a small margin) if you play for 3 hour chunks, but the quality of your loot has gone way down.
I was farming act3+4 on my tank barb with ease before the patch, now it just became really boring. I have no will to buy dps gear in order to do things faster when everyone can do butcher runs and compete with me on the AH. It was fun while it lasted, now it is just repetition without the thrill of the fights.
In the end diablo 2 was about the loot, making your characters really powerful, being able to offer something people couldn't/didn't want farm. Think annihilus, low level charms, white monarchs, socketed armors, runes, torchs, crafts, gems... With 1.0.3 and all the patches leading up to it, by trying to promote skill / rune variety and access to inferno for everyone, blizzard killed all the other forms of farm people with poor gear had and made everyone do the same thing.
I just finished a full run today, from act1 to diablo, on my wizard wasting only 3m on my gear. I had to skip half of the elite packs on the later acts, but it was still VERY easy (I guess belial enraged on me twice, and cydea took 20 mins), which led me to the question: What is the point? I can't even make money anymore.
I disagree with the idea that inferno is "content", when in reallity it is just a new difficulty setting, people already know that cain dies, no reason to destroy the game for people like me. I built my character with no more then 10 hours a week, now people that can do 30h of act1 clears will be richer, due to the (good) nature of RNG.
Game was nice when I was able to play it, standing still and hitting mobs (bar desecration) is not really a game, no challenge. I would be happy with USeast servers earlier, playing hardcore with 300ms was no go, even if they added it now, I wouldn't come back due to the disappointment after this week's patch.
Take away the difficulty of a PvE game and what does it have left? That's right, one, maybe two playthroughs.
On June 21 2012 08:58 Zozo wrote: I was farming act3+4 on my tank barb with ease before the patch, now it just became really boring. I have no will to buy dps gear in order to do things faster when everyone can do butcher runs and compete with me on the AH. It was fun while it lasted, now it is just repetition without the thrill of the fights.
In the end diablo 2 was about the loot, making your characters really powerful, being able to offer something people couldn't/didn't want farm. Think annihilus, low level charms, white monarchs, socketed armors, runes, torchs, crafts, gems... With 1.0.3 and all the patches leading up to it, by trying to promote skill / rune variety and access to inferno for everyone, blizzard killed all the other forms of farm people with poor gear had and made everyone do the same thing.
I just finished a full run today, from act1 to diablo, on my wizard wasting only 3m on my gear. I had to skip half of the elite packs on the later acts, but it was still VERY easy (I guess belial enraged on me twice, and cydea took 20 mins), which led me to the question: What is the point? I can't even make money anymore.
I disagree with the idea that inferno is "content", when in reallity it is just a new difficulty setting, people already know that cain dies, no reason to destroy the game for people like me. I built my character with no more then 10 hours a week, now people that can do 30h of act1 clears will be richer, due to the (good) nature of RNG.
Game was nice when I was able to play it, standing still and hitting mobs (bar desecration) is not really a game, no challenge. I would be happy with USeast servers earlier, playing hardcore with 300ms was no go, even if they added it now, I wouldn't come back due to the disappointment after this week's patch.
Take away the difficulty of a PvE game and what does it have left? That's right, one, maybe two playthroughs.
Annihilus wasn't even released until 1.10 which was years after the game. The game is about finding items. I do agree though they over nerfed inferno. I feel that they should add more content or make the Pony level with a new boss be end game but that is just me.
On June 21 2012 08:58 Zozo wrote: I was farming act3+4 on my tank barb with ease before the patch, now it just became really boring. I have no will to buy dps gear in order to do things faster when everyone can do butcher runs and compete with me on the AH. It was fun while it lasted, now it is just repetition without the thrill of the fights.
In the end diablo 2 was about the loot, making your characters really powerful, being able to offer something people couldn't/didn't want farm. Think annihilus, low level charms, white monarchs, socketed armors, runes, torchs, crafts, gems... With 1.0.3 and all the patches leading up to it, by trying to promote skill / rune variety and access to inferno for everyone, blizzard killed all the other forms of farm people with poor gear had and made everyone do the same thing.
I just finished a full run today, from act1 to diablo, on my wizard wasting only 3m on my gear. I had to skip half of the elite packs on the later acts, but it was still VERY easy (I guess belial enraged on me twice, and cydea took 20 mins), which led me to the question: What is the point? I can't even make money anymore.
I disagree with the idea that inferno is "content", when in reallity it is just a new difficulty setting, people already know that cain dies, no reason to destroy the game for people like me. I built my character with no more then 10 hours a week, now people that can do 30h of act1 clears will be richer, due to the (good) nature of RNG.
Game was nice when I was able to play it, standing still and hitting mobs (bar desecration) is not really a game, no challenge. I would be happy with USeast servers earlier, playing hardcore with 300ms was no go, even if they added it now, I wouldn't come back due to the disappointment after this week's patch.
Take away the difficulty of a PvE game and what does it have left? That's right, one, maybe two playthroughs.
Annihilus wasn't even released until 1.10 which was years after the game. The game is about finding items. I do agree though they over nerfed inferno. I feel that they should add more content or make the Pony level with a new boss be end game but that is just me.
I mentioned torchs also, which came even later. That is not the point, you were never restricted in diablo 2, in d3 however, anything other then killing elites will not pay off.
On June 21 2012 08:58 Zozo wrote: I was farming act3+4 on my tank barb with ease before the patch, now it just became really boring. I have no will to buy dps gear in order to do things faster when everyone can do butcher runs and compete with me on the AH. It was fun while it lasted, now it is just repetition without the thrill of the fights.
In the end diablo 2 was about the loot, making your characters really powerful, being able to offer something people couldn't/didn't want farm. Think annihilus, low level charms, white monarchs, socketed armors, runes, torchs, crafts, gems... With 1.0.3 and all the patches leading up to it, by trying to promote skill / rune variety and access to inferno for everyone, blizzard killed all the other forms of farm people with poor gear had and made everyone do the same thing.
I just finished a full run today, from act1 to diablo, on my wizard wasting only 3m on my gear. I had to skip half of the elite packs on the later acts, but it was still VERY easy (I guess belial enraged on me twice, and cydea took 20 mins), which led me to the question: What is the point? I can't even make money anymore.
I disagree with the idea that inferno is "content", when in reallity it is just a new difficulty setting, people already know that cain dies, no reason to destroy the game for people like me. I built my character with no more then 10 hours a week, now people that can do 30h of act1 clears will be richer, due to the (good) nature of RNG.
Game was nice when I was able to play it, standing still and hitting mobs (bar desecration) is not really a game, no challenge. I would be happy with USeast servers earlier, playing hardcore with 300ms was no go, even if they added it now, I wouldn't come back due to the disappointment after this week's patch.
Take away the difficulty of a PvE game and what does it have left? That's right, one, maybe two playthroughs.
Annihilus wasn't even released until 1.10 which was years after the game. The game is about finding items. I do agree though they over nerfed inferno. I feel that they should add more content or make the Pony level with a new boss be end game but that is just me.
I mentioned torchs also, which came even later. That is not the point, you were never restricted in diablo 2, in d3 however, anything other then killing elites will not pay off.
And in D2, anything other than killing Mephisto/Baal/Pindleskin will not pay off (and Pindle only because of how easy he was despite the craptastic chance to drop anything not awful).
There will always be an optimal way to farm. I'm just glad that in 1.03, that involves "actually playing the game" (as opposed to vase farming/goblin farming/D2's boss farming, all of which were "avoid playing the game as much as possible").
On June 21 2012 08:58 Zozo wrote: I was farming act3+4 on my tank barb with ease before the patch, now it just became really boring. I have no will to buy dps gear in order to do things faster when everyone can do butcher runs and compete with me on the AH. It was fun while it lasted, now it is just repetition without the thrill of the fights.
In the end diablo 2 was about the loot, making your characters really powerful, being able to offer something people couldn't/didn't want farm. Think annihilus, low level charms, white monarchs, socketed armors, runes, torchs, crafts, gems... With 1.0.3 and all the patches leading up to it, by trying to promote skill / rune variety and access to inferno for everyone, blizzard killed all the other forms of farm people with poor gear had and made everyone do the same thing.
I just finished a full run today, from act1 to diablo, on my wizard wasting only 3m on my gear. I had to skip half of the elite packs on the later acts, but it was still VERY easy (I guess belial enraged on me twice, and cydea took 20 mins), which led me to the question: What is the point? I can't even make money anymore.
I disagree with the idea that inferno is "content", when in reallity it is just a new difficulty setting, people already know that cain dies, no reason to destroy the game for people like me. I built my character with no more then 10 hours a week, now people that can do 30h of act1 clears will be richer, due to the (good) nature of RNG.
Game was nice when I was able to play it, standing still and hitting mobs (bar desecration) is not really a game, no challenge. I would be happy with USeast servers earlier, playing hardcore with 300ms was no go, even if they added it now, I wouldn't come back due to the disappointment after this week's patch.
Take away the difficulty of a PvE game and what does it have left? That's right, one, maybe two playthroughs.
Annihilus wasn't even released until 1.10 which was years after the game. The game is about finding items. I do agree though they over nerfed inferno. I feel that they should add more content or make the Pony level with a new boss be end game but that is just me.
I mentioned torchs also, which came even later. That is not the point, you were never restricted in diablo 2, in d3 however, anything other then killing elites will not pay off.
And in D2, anything other than killing Mephisto/Baal/Pindleskin will not pay off (and Pindle only because of how easy he was despite the craptastic chance to drop anything not awful).
There will always be an optimal way to farm. I'm just glad that in 1.03, that involves "actually playing the game" (as opposed to vase farming/goblin farming/D2's boss farming, all of which were "avoid playing the game as much as possible").
well, pindle was also one of the few monsters that could drop the highest possible item level
On June 21 2012 08:58 Zozo wrote: I was farming act3+4 on my tank barb with ease before the patch, now it just became really boring. I have no will to buy dps gear in order to do things faster when everyone can do butcher runs and compete with me on the AH. It was fun while it lasted, now it is just repetition without the thrill of the fights.
In the end diablo 2 was about the loot, making your characters really powerful, being able to offer something people couldn't/didn't want farm. Think annihilus, low level charms, white monarchs, socketed armors, runes, torchs, crafts, gems... With 1.0.3 and all the patches leading up to it, by trying to promote skill / rune variety and access to inferno for everyone, blizzard killed all the other forms of farm people with poor gear had and made everyone do the same thing.
I just finished a full run today, from act1 to diablo, on my wizard wasting only 3m on my gear. I had to skip half of the elite packs on the later acts, but it was still VERY easy (I guess belial enraged on me twice, and cydea took 20 mins), which led me to the question: What is the point? I can't even make money anymore.
I disagree with the idea that inferno is "content", when in reallity it is just a new difficulty setting, people already know that cain dies, no reason to destroy the game for people like me. I built my character with no more then 10 hours a week, now people that can do 30h of act1 clears will be richer, due to the (good) nature of RNG.
Game was nice when I was able to play it, standing still and hitting mobs (bar desecration) is not really a game, no challenge. I would be happy with USeast servers earlier, playing hardcore with 300ms was no go, even if they added it now, I wouldn't come back due to the disappointment after this week's patch.
Take away the difficulty of a PvE game and what does it have left? That's right, one, maybe two playthroughs.
Annihilus wasn't even released until 1.10 which was years after the game. The game is about finding items. I do agree though they over nerfed inferno. I feel that they should add more content or make the Pony level with a new boss be end game but that is just me.
I mentioned torchs also, which came even later. That is not the point, you were never restricted in diablo 2, in d3 however, anything other then killing elites will not pay off.
And in D2, anything other than killing Mephisto/Baal/Pindleskin will not pay off (and Pindle only because of how easy he was despite the craptastic chance to drop anything not awful).
There will always be an optimal way to farm. I'm just glad that in 1.03, that involves "actually playing the game" (as opposed to vase farming/goblin farming/D2's boss farming, all of which were "avoid playing the game as much as possible").
That is just not true, you could farm gems and runes for crafters, you could make characters to do forge quests, you could roll charms for people that liked to low level duel or skillers, you could farm NM andariel for Sojs, you could powerlever people, you could farm whites/socketeds, camp uber D, farm torches, roll spirit/insights to sell the high ones, sell socket quests, hunt for keys... The list goes on, all of these paid off if you were efficient. Just go the d2jsp and see the wide variety of things people are trading in d2, and then go to d3 for nothing but end game items.
Have you noticed the quality of your drops though?
Pre-patch, about half my items were lvl 62-63. Post-patch, less than a quarter of my items were lvl 62-63.
The latter is supported by blizzard patch notes, the previous from multiple loot recorders.
So sure, runs got a bit safer, and with practice, you probably get slightly more rares/hour (by a small margin) if you play for 3 hour chunks, but the quality of your loot has gone way down.
Thats true of course. Atm I dont really feel its worth it. I can prob make more cash scanning the AH and crafting.
I knew it would be a game for casuals but there need to be some kind of endgame. Some place where the 20 mill budget equip is not enough. I wish there was a dungeon, where hp and damage of mobs just go up and up unlimited and so does the drop rate of level 63 items. As of know like I said I sell everything really good on the rmah and still can farm "endgame".
I heard about some dhs makng 80rares/per hour with 300mf without switch. Maybe thats the way to go, because I´m not even close to that but ye, atm I dont really feel the need to upgrade my gear anymore.
In D2 you had clearing CS in a 8player game in the time of a Baal Run, which was not easy and kinda "endgame" content, but right now in D3 there is nothing like that.
On June 21 2012 08:58 Zozo wrote: I was farming act3+4 on my tank barb with ease before the patch, now it just became really boring. I have no will to buy dps gear in order to do things faster when everyone can do butcher runs and compete with me on the AH. It was fun while it lasted, now it is just repetition without the thrill of the fights.
In the end diablo 2 was about the loot, making your characters really powerful, being able to offer something people couldn't/didn't want farm. Think annihilus, low level charms, white monarchs, socketed armors, runes, torchs, crafts, gems... With 1.0.3 and all the patches leading up to it, by trying to promote skill / rune variety and access to inferno for everyone, blizzard killed all the other forms of farm people with poor gear had and made everyone do the same thing.
I just finished a full run today, from act1 to diablo, on my wizard wasting only 3m on my gear. I had to skip half of the elite packs on the later acts, but it was still VERY easy (I guess belial enraged on me twice, and cydea took 20 mins), which led me to the question: What is the point? I can't even make money anymore.
I disagree with the idea that inferno is "content", when in reallity it is just a new difficulty setting, people already know that cain dies, no reason to destroy the game for people like me. I built my character with no more then 10 hours a week, now people that can do 30h of act1 clears will be richer, due to the (good) nature of RNG.
Game was nice when I was able to play it, standing still and hitting mobs (bar desecration) is not really a game, no challenge. I would be happy with USeast servers earlier, playing hardcore with 300ms was no go, even if they added it now, I wouldn't come back due to the disappointment after this week's patch.
Take away the difficulty of a PvE game and what does it have left? That's right, one, maybe two playthroughs.
Annihilus wasn't even released until 1.10 which was years after the game. The game is about finding items. I do agree though they over nerfed inferno. I feel that they should add more content or make the Pony level with a new boss be end game but that is just me.
I mentioned torchs also, which came even later. That is not the point, you were never restricted in diablo 2, in d3 however, anything other then killing elites will not pay off.
And in D2, anything other than killing Mephisto/Baal/Pindleskin will not pay off (and Pindle only because of how easy he was despite the craptastic chance to drop anything not awful).
There will always be an optimal way to farm. I'm just glad that in 1.03, that involves "actually playing the game" (as opposed to vase farming/goblin farming/D2's boss farming, all of which were "avoid playing the game as much as possible").
well, pindle was also one of the few monsters that could drop the highest possible item level
Yep after what seemed like a billion times killing him the stupid skeleton finally dropped me a unique hydra bow, the windforce.. still remember that moment .
anyone have opinions on how the patch 1.0.3 changes will affect the value of gold?
I think there will be several factors that will cause gold value to start increasing which makes me unsure about actually spending gold on anything expensive
here are the factors that I can think of that will reduce gold supply and increase the value of gold
- inanimate objects no longer have magic/gold find applied to them - repair fees greatly reduce player gold growth through killing monsters - 1.0.3 causes a certain % of the player base to play the game less or quit which reduces gold supply - Blizzard has yet to enable the selling of gold on RMAH preventing an influx of gold from bot accounts to be sold through RMAH - Blizzard starting to go after bot accounts which reduces gold supply - gold finding bot methods have been nerfed greatly. they have to basically to kill monsters now to gold farm which requires a more sophisticated bot.
as long as gold is not sellable on RMAH, I think the value of gold will be increasing as time goes by. I have no idea how quickly the market will start adjusting to this though. it might happen pretty quickly since patch 1.0.3 has had a definite effect on reducing Diablo 3 player base.
On June 21 2012 08:58 Zozo wrote: I was farming act3+4 on my tank barb with ease before the patch, now it just became really boring. I have no will to buy dps gear in order to do things faster when everyone can do butcher runs and compete with me on the AH. It was fun while it lasted, now it is just repetition without the thrill of the fights.
In the end diablo 2 was about the loot, making your characters really powerful, being able to offer something people couldn't/didn't want farm. Think annihilus, low level charms, white monarchs, socketed armors, runes, torchs, crafts, gems... With 1.0.3 and all the patches leading up to it, by trying to promote skill / rune variety and access to inferno for everyone, blizzard killed all the other forms of farm people with poor gear had and made everyone do the same thing.
I just finished a full run today, from act1 to diablo, on my wizard wasting only 3m on my gear. I had to skip half of the elite packs on the later acts, but it was still VERY easy (I guess belial enraged on me twice, and cydea took 20 mins), which led me to the question: What is the point? I can't even make money anymore.
I disagree with the idea that inferno is "content", when in reallity it is just a new difficulty setting, people already know that cain dies, no reason to destroy the game for people like me. I built my character with no more then 10 hours a week, now people that can do 30h of act1 clears will be richer, due to the (good) nature of RNG.
Game was nice when I was able to play it, standing still and hitting mobs (bar desecration) is not really a game, no challenge. I would be happy with USeast servers earlier, playing hardcore with 300ms was no go, even if they added it now, I wouldn't come back due to the disappointment after this week's patch.
Take away the difficulty of a PvE game and what does it have left? That's right, one, maybe two playthroughs.
Annihilus wasn't even released until 1.10 which was years after the game. The game is about finding items. I do agree though they over nerfed inferno. I feel that they should add more content or make the Pony level with a new boss be end game but that is just me.
I mentioned torchs also, which came even later. That is not the point, you were never restricted in diablo 2, in d3 however, anything other then killing elites will not pay off.
And in D2, anything other than killing Mephisto/Baal/Pindleskin will not pay off (and Pindle only because of how easy he was despite the craptastic chance to drop anything not awful).
There will always be an optimal way to farm. I'm just glad that in 1.03, that involves "actually playing the game" (as opposed to vase farming/goblin farming/D2's boss farming, all of which were "avoid playing the game as much as possible").
That is just not true, you could farm gems and runes for crafters, you could make characters to do forge quests, you could roll charms for people that liked to low level duel or skillers, you could farm NM andariel for Sojs, you could powerlever people, you could farm whites/socketeds, camp uber D, farm torches, roll spirit/insights to sell the high ones, sell socket quests, hunt for keys... The list goes on, all of these paid off if you were efficient. Just go the d2jsp and see the wide variety of things people are trading in d2, and then go to d3 for nothing but end game items.
Now you're given a choice of farming A1 to A4. That allows a pretty large skill range to farm happily. Half the things you mentioned are even more boring or people leave the bots to do. The other half was additional content which came in later patches..
I heard that the D2 servers are still online, you might wanna check it out.
On June 21 2012 08:58 Zozo wrote: I was farming act3+4 on my tank barb with ease before the patch, now it just became really boring. I have no will to buy dps gear in order to do things faster when everyone can do butcher runs and compete with me on the AH. It was fun while it lasted, now it is just repetition without the thrill of the fights.
In the end diablo 2 was about the loot, making your characters really powerful, being able to offer something people couldn't/didn't want farm. Think annihilus, low level charms, white monarchs, socketed armors, runes, torchs, crafts, gems... With 1.0.3 and all the patches leading up to it, by trying to promote skill / rune variety and access to inferno for everyone, blizzard killed all the other forms of farm people with poor gear had and made everyone do the same thing.
I just finished a full run today, from act1 to diablo, on my wizard wasting only 3m on my gear. I had to skip half of the elite packs on the later acts, but it was still VERY easy (I guess belial enraged on me twice, and cydea took 20 mins), which led me to the question: What is the point? I can't even make money anymore.
I disagree with the idea that inferno is "content", when in reallity it is just a new difficulty setting, people already know that cain dies, no reason to destroy the game for people like me. I built my character with no more then 10 hours a week, now people that can do 30h of act1 clears will be richer, due to the (good) nature of RNG.
Game was nice when I was able to play it, standing still and hitting mobs (bar desecration) is not really a game, no challenge. I would be happy with USeast servers earlier, playing hardcore with 300ms was no go, even if they added it now, I wouldn't come back due to the disappointment after this week's patch.
Take away the difficulty of a PvE game and what does it have left? That's right, one, maybe two playthroughs.
Annihilus wasn't even released until 1.10 which was years after the game. The game is about finding items. I do agree though they over nerfed inferno. I feel that they should add more content or make the Pony level with a new boss be end game but that is just me.
I mentioned torchs also, which came even later. That is not the point, you were never restricted in diablo 2, in d3 however, anything other then killing elites will not pay off.
And in D2, anything other than killing Mephisto/Baal/Pindleskin will not pay off (and Pindle only because of how easy he was despite the craptastic chance to drop anything not awful).
There will always be an optimal way to farm. I'm just glad that in 1.03, that involves "actually playing the game" (as opposed to vase farming/goblin farming/D2's boss farming, all of which were "avoid playing the game as much as possible").
That is just not true, you could farm gems and runes for crafters, you could make characters to do forge quests, you could roll charms for people that liked to low level duel or skillers, you could farm NM andariel for Sojs, you could powerlever people, you could farm whites/socketeds, camp uber D, farm torches, roll spirit/insights to sell the high ones, sell socket quests, hunt for keys... The list goes on, all of these paid off if you were efficient. Just go the d2jsp and see the wide variety of things people are trading in d2, and then go to d3 for nothing but end game items.
Now you're given a choice of farming A1 to A4. That allows a pretty large skill range to farm happily. Half the things you mentioned are even more boring or people leave the bots to do. The other half was additional content which came in later patches..
I heard that the D2 servers are still online, you might wanna check it out.
with the ilvl63 rates being so nerfed it's not really feasible to clear act1 or 2 unless you clear 30-40 elites in 5-10 minutes. I mean sure you can farm elites in any act, but it wont be anywhere close to efficient.
On June 21 2012 08:58 Zozo wrote: I was farming act3+4 on my tank barb with ease before the patch, now it just became really boring. I have no will to buy dps gear in order to do things faster when everyone can do butcher runs and compete with me on the AH. It was fun while it lasted, now it is just repetition without the thrill of the fights.
In the end diablo 2 was about the loot, making your characters really powerful, being able to offer something people couldn't/didn't want farm. Think annihilus, low level charms, white monarchs, socketed armors, runes, torchs, crafts, gems... With 1.0.3 and all the patches leading up to it, by trying to promote skill / rune variety and access to inferno for everyone, blizzard killed all the other forms of farm people with poor gear had and made everyone do the same thing.
I just finished a full run today, from act1 to diablo, on my wizard wasting only 3m on my gear. I had to skip half of the elite packs on the later acts, but it was still VERY easy (I guess belial enraged on me twice, and cydea took 20 mins), which led me to the question: What is the point? I can't even make money anymore.
I disagree with the idea that inferno is "content", when in reallity it is just a new difficulty setting, people already know that cain dies, no reason to destroy the game for people like me. I built my character with no more then 10 hours a week, now people that can do 30h of act1 clears will be richer, due to the (good) nature of RNG.
Game was nice when I was able to play it, standing still and hitting mobs (bar desecration) is not really a game, no challenge. I would be happy with USeast servers earlier, playing hardcore with 300ms was no go, even if they added it now, I wouldn't come back due to the disappointment after this week's patch.
Take away the difficulty of a PvE game and what does it have left? That's right, one, maybe two playthroughs.
Annihilus wasn't even released until 1.10 which was years after the game. The game is about finding items. I do agree though they over nerfed inferno. I feel that they should add more content or make the Pony level with a new boss be end game but that is just me.
I mentioned torchs also, which came even later. That is not the point, you were never restricted in diablo 2, in d3 however, anything other then killing elites will not pay off.
And in D2, anything other than killing Mephisto/Baal/Pindleskin will not pay off (and Pindle only because of how easy he was despite the craptastic chance to drop anything not awful).
There will always be an optimal way to farm. I'm just glad that in 1.03, that involves "actually playing the game" (as opposed to vase farming/goblin farming/D2's boss farming, all of which were "avoid playing the game as much as possible").
That is just not true, you could farm gems and runes for crafters, you could make characters to do forge quests, you could roll charms for people that liked to low level duel or skillers, you could farm NM andariel for Sojs, you could powerlever people, you could farm whites/socketeds, camp uber D, farm torches, roll spirit/insights to sell the high ones, sell socket quests, hunt for keys... The list goes on, all of these paid off if you were efficient. Just go the d2jsp and see the wide variety of things people are trading in d2, and then go to d3 for nothing but end game items.
Now you're given a choice of farming A1 to A4. That allows a pretty large skill range to farm happily. Half the things you mentioned are even more boring or people leave the bots to do. The other half was additional content which came in later patches..
I heard that the D2 servers are still online, you might wanna check it out.
with the ilvl63 rates being so nerfed it's not really feasible to clear act1 or 2 unless you clear 30-40 elites in 5-10 minutes. I mean sure you can farm elites in any act, but it wont be anywhere close to efficient.
didnt the drop rates for ilvl 61-63 go up in the lower acts? Or am i completely missing something?
On June 21 2012 08:58 Zozo wrote: I was farming act3+4 on my tank barb with ease before the patch, now it just became really boring. I have no will to buy dps gear in order to do things faster when everyone can do butcher runs and compete with me on the AH. It was fun while it lasted, now it is just repetition without the thrill of the fights.
In the end diablo 2 was about the loot, making your characters really powerful, being able to offer something people couldn't/didn't want farm. Think annihilus, low level charms, white monarchs, socketed armors, runes, torchs, crafts, gems... With 1.0.3 and all the patches leading up to it, by trying to promote skill / rune variety and access to inferno for everyone, blizzard killed all the other forms of farm people with poor gear had and made everyone do the same thing.
I just finished a full run today, from act1 to diablo, on my wizard wasting only 3m on my gear. I had to skip half of the elite packs on the later acts, but it was still VERY easy (I guess belial enraged on me twice, and cydea took 20 mins), which led me to the question: What is the point? I can't even make money anymore.
I disagree with the idea that inferno is "content", when in reallity it is just a new difficulty setting, people already know that cain dies, no reason to destroy the game for people like me. I built my character with no more then 10 hours a week, now people that can do 30h of act1 clears will be richer, due to the (good) nature of RNG.
Game was nice when I was able to play it, standing still and hitting mobs (bar desecration) is not really a game, no challenge. I would be happy with USeast servers earlier, playing hardcore with 300ms was no go, even if they added it now, I wouldn't come back due to the disappointment after this week's patch.
Take away the difficulty of a PvE game and what does it have left? That's right, one, maybe two playthroughs.
Annihilus wasn't even released until 1.10 which was years after the game. The game is about finding items. I do agree though they over nerfed inferno. I feel that they should add more content or make the Pony level with a new boss be end game but that is just me.
I mentioned torchs also, which came even later. That is not the point, you were never restricted in diablo 2, in d3 however, anything other then killing elites will not pay off.
And in D2, anything other than killing Mephisto/Baal/Pindleskin will not pay off (and Pindle only because of how easy he was despite the craptastic chance to drop anything not awful).
There will always be an optimal way to farm. I'm just glad that in 1.03, that involves "actually playing the game" (as opposed to vase farming/goblin farming/D2's boss farming, all of which were "avoid playing the game as much as possible").
That is just not true, you could farm gems and runes for crafters, you could make characters to do forge quests, you could roll charms for people that liked to low level duel or skillers, you could farm NM andariel for Sojs, you could powerlever people, you could farm whites/socketeds, camp uber D, farm torches, roll spirit/insights to sell the high ones, sell socket quests, hunt for keys... The list goes on, all of these paid off if you were efficient. Just go the d2jsp and see the wide variety of things people are trading in d2, and then go to d3 for nothing but end game items.
Now you're given a choice of farming A1 to A4. That allows a pretty large skill range to farm happily. Half the things you mentioned are even more boring or people leave the bots to do. The other half was additional content which came in later patches..
I heard that the D2 servers are still online, you might wanna check it out.
with the ilvl63 rates being so nerfed it's not really feasible to clear act1 or 2 unless you clear 30-40 elites in 5-10 minutes. I mean sure you can farm elites in any act, but it wont be anywhere close to efficient.
didnt the drop rates for ilvl 61-63 go up in the lower acts? Or am i completely missing something?
yes but the ilvl63 drops went down significantly in acts 3 and 4. Even still, more to the point, it's 2% act 1, 4% act 2, 8% act 3/4. Considering the drop rate in act 3 went down ~66% it's been calculated to equal the amount of ilvl63 rares one used to get from doing 20-30 minutes azmodan runs, it would take 20 elite packs and 1 boss fight. This obviously takes way more time but those were values for act 3 elites. Considering acts 1 and 2 are 1/4 or 1/2 the current act 3 drop rate, you'd need to kill even more elites to equal the amount of ilvl 63 rares per clear. So not only were ilvl63 drop rates nerfed hard, the time to get the same amount of ilvl63 rares went up considerably. Farming is just not efficient in this new patch whatsoever, in comparsion to pre-1.0.3, it's not evenremotely close.
On June 21 2012 08:58 Zozo wrote: I was farming act3+4 on my tank barb with ease before the patch, now it just became really boring. I have no will to buy dps gear in order to do things faster when everyone can do butcher runs and compete with me on the AH. It was fun while it lasted, now it is just repetition without the thrill of the fights.
In the end diablo 2 was about the loot, making your characters really powerful, being able to offer something people couldn't/didn't want farm. Think annihilus, low level charms, white monarchs, socketed armors, runes, torchs, crafts, gems... With 1.0.3 and all the patches leading up to it, by trying to promote skill / rune variety and access to inferno for everyone, blizzard killed all the other forms of farm people with poor gear had and made everyone do the same thing.
I just finished a full run today, from act1 to diablo, on my wizard wasting only 3m on my gear. I had to skip half of the elite packs on the later acts, but it was still VERY easy (I guess belial enraged on me twice, and cydea took 20 mins), which led me to the question: What is the point? I can't even make money anymore.
I disagree with the idea that inferno is "content", when in reallity it is just a new difficulty setting, people already know that cain dies, no reason to destroy the game for people like me. I built my character with no more then 10 hours a week, now people that can do 30h of act1 clears will be richer, due to the (good) nature of RNG.
Game was nice when I was able to play it, standing still and hitting mobs (bar desecration) is not really a game, no challenge. I would be happy with USeast servers earlier, playing hardcore with 300ms was no go, even if they added it now, I wouldn't come back due to the disappointment after this week's patch.
Take away the difficulty of a PvE game and what does it have left? That's right, one, maybe two playthroughs.
Annihilus wasn't even released until 1.10 which was years after the game. The game is about finding items. I do agree though they over nerfed inferno. I feel that they should add more content or make the Pony level with a new boss be end game but that is just me.
I mentioned torchs also, which came even later. That is not the point, you were never restricted in diablo 2, in d3 however, anything other then killing elites will not pay off.
And in D2, anything other than killing Mephisto/Baal/Pindleskin will not pay off (and Pindle only because of how easy he was despite the craptastic chance to drop anything not awful).
There will always be an optimal way to farm. I'm just glad that in 1.03, that involves "actually playing the game" (as opposed to vase farming/goblin farming/D2's boss farming, all of which were "avoid playing the game as much as possible").
That is just not true, you could farm gems and runes for crafters, you could make characters to do forge quests, you could roll charms for people that liked to low level duel or skillers, you could farm NM andariel for Sojs, you could powerlever people, you could farm whites/socketeds, camp uber D, farm torches, roll spirit/insights to sell the high ones, sell socket quests, hunt for keys... The list goes on, all of these paid off if you were efficient. Just go the d2jsp and see the wide variety of things people are trading in d2, and then go to d3 for nothing but end game items.
Now you're given a choice of farming A1 to A4. That allows a pretty large skill range to farm happily. Half the things you mentioned are even more boring or people leave the bots to do. The other half was additional content which came in later patches..
I heard that the D2 servers are still online, you might wanna check it out.
with the ilvl63 rates being so nerfed it's not really feasible to clear act1 or 2 unless you clear 30-40 elites in 5-10 minutes. I mean sure you can farm elites in any act, but it wont be anywhere close to efficient.
didnt the drop rates for ilvl 61-63 go up in the lower acts? Or am i completely missing something?
I'm not sure about ilevel 61 but ilevel 62 and 63 were def "boosted." Its still terribly inefficient and horrendously mind numbing unless you get lucky though. The only real difference I've noticed as someone stuck on Belial (now even more so from the IAS nerf) is that instead I'm just getting a few more useless items with yellow names. Its really just a bone they tossed out for those stuck in progression from lack of drops/gold to buy stuff that doesn't realistically help them much.
Its a casual and rough test at best but from a full clear and an additional half clear of Act I these past two days I've gotten about 50 rares, with iirc at least half being below ilevel 60 and only three ilevel 63 items with five stack NV+70% additional magic find from equipment (I know its not that much). The ilevel 63 items and basically all other rares I got were garbage and only one of the ilevel 63 was worth even attempting to sell on the AH (20% MF and 10% crit gloves with no other dps stats lololol). I guess people did ask for more rares and now they have them...
On June 21 2012 08:58 Zozo wrote: I was farming act3+4 on my tank barb with ease before the patch, now it just became really boring. I have no will to buy dps gear in order to do things faster when everyone can do butcher runs and compete with me on the AH. It was fun while it lasted, now it is just repetition without the thrill of the fights.
In the end diablo 2 was about the loot, making your characters really powerful, being able to offer something people couldn't/didn't want farm. Think annihilus, low level charms, white monarchs, socketed armors, runes, torchs, crafts, gems... With 1.0.3 and all the patches leading up to it, by trying to promote skill / rune variety and access to inferno for everyone, blizzard killed all the other forms of farm people with poor gear had and made everyone do the same thing.
I just finished a full run today, from act1 to diablo, on my wizard wasting only 3m on my gear. I had to skip half of the elite packs on the later acts, but it was still VERY easy (I guess belial enraged on me twice, and cydea took 20 mins), which led me to the question: What is the point? I can't even make money anymore.
I disagree with the idea that inferno is "content", when in reallity it is just a new difficulty setting, people already know that cain dies, no reason to destroy the game for people like me. I built my character with no more then 10 hours a week, now people that can do 30h of act1 clears will be richer, due to the (good) nature of RNG.
Game was nice when I was able to play it, standing still and hitting mobs (bar desecration) is not really a game, no challenge. I would be happy with USeast servers earlier, playing hardcore with 300ms was no go, even if they added it now, I wouldn't come back due to the disappointment after this week's patch.
Take away the difficulty of a PvE game and what does it have left? That's right, one, maybe two playthroughs.
Annihilus wasn't even released until 1.10 which was years after the game. The game is about finding items. I do agree though they over nerfed inferno. I feel that they should add more content or make the Pony level with a new boss be end game but that is just me.
I mentioned torchs also, which came even later. That is not the point, you were never restricted in diablo 2, in d3 however, anything other then killing elites will not pay off.
And in D2, anything other than killing Mephisto/Baal/Pindleskin will not pay off (and Pindle only because of how easy he was despite the craptastic chance to drop anything not awful).
There will always be an optimal way to farm. I'm just glad that in 1.03, that involves "actually playing the game" (as opposed to vase farming/goblin farming/D2's boss farming, all of which were "avoid playing the game as much as possible").
That is just not true, you could farm gems and runes for crafters, you could make characters to do forge quests, you could roll charms for people that liked to low level duel or skillers, you could farm NM andariel for Sojs, you could powerlever people, you could farm whites/socketeds, camp uber D, farm torches, roll spirit/insights to sell the high ones, sell socket quests, hunt for keys... The list goes on, all of these paid off if you were efficient. Just go the d2jsp and see the wide variety of things people are trading in d2, and then go to d3 for nothing but end game items.
Now you're given a choice of farming A1 to A4. That allows a pretty large skill range to farm happily. Half the things you mentioned are even more boring or people leave the bots to do. The other half was additional content which came in later patches..
I heard that the D2 servers are still online, you might wanna check it out.
with the ilvl63 rates being so nerfed it's not really feasible to clear act1 or 2 unless you clear 30-40 elites in 5-10 minutes. I mean sure you can farm elites in any act, but it wont be anywhere close to efficient.
didnt the drop rates for ilvl 61-63 go up in the lower acts? Or am i completely missing something?
yes but the ilvl63 drops went down significantly in acts 3 and 4. Even still, more to the point, it's 2% act 1, 4% act 2, 8% act 3/4. Considering the drop rate in act 3 went down ~66% it's been calculated to equal the amount of ilvl63 rares one used to get from doing 20-30 minutes azmodan runs, it would take 20 elite packs and 1 boss fight. This obviously takes way more time but those were values for act 3 elites. Considering acts 1 and 2 are 1/4 or 1/2 the current act 3 drop rate, you'd need to kill even more elites to equal the amount of ilvl 63 rares per clear. So not only were ilvl63 drop rates nerfed hard, the time to get the same amount of ilvl63 rares went up considerably. Farming is just not efficient in this new patch whatsoever, in comparsion to pre-1.0.3, it's not evenremotely close.
They gave us a great choice between a mind numbing gear grind or an even more mind numbing one to get to the less mind numbing one. They also made the wall between the two more frustrating because of a significant dps loss to many players, many of whom weren't even stacking IAS but only taking it because it was easy to get and provided a large boost.
I don't get it. Why did they make level 51-59 item drop rate so high on Inferno if these items are totally USELESS! Why don't just lower 51-59 drop rate to minimum so I don't have to run to town to sell full inventory for 3k like an idiot every 10 minutes. That is really idiotic. I'm considering to just throw away items that are <60 from now on because it only wastes time. With 5 stacks of NV I can farm 3k gold in about a minute, just as much as it takes to run back to town and sell full inventory of crap. But staying on the battlefield I also have a chance to find an elite.
Simple, Blizzard doesn't want us to have ilvl63 around every corner and that is why they nerfed it. This way the items will be more valuable and probably more people will use AH/RMAH to obtain items instead of hoping to drop some upgrade.
Also i am a DH who did not stack iAS and tried to play towards resists and hp to be able to survive 1 shot. After 1.03 patch, i can take 3-4 hits, but i can't kill shit. My bow was nerfed from 1090 dps to 970 and the only viable skill i could use to down monsters before they get me was NT, which was nerfed to be useless. I understand that elite players (the ones who abused goblins and chest runs to oblivion) were too overpowered with NT, but my damage got hit pretty hard and after 1,.03 the game seems harder for me with the ridiculous repair costs. Not speaking about reflect damage monsters, which i usually get down to half hp, before i run out of healing or dispcipline possibility and all i can do is run until my potion cools down.
On the other note my friend who plays wizzard is laughing his ass of how easy the game got for him. He can pretty much play tank now and do whatever he wants, and he is far from having BiS. I am not the type who would whine or something, i actually really like the challenge so i am cool with that. But the thing that pissed me off is farming is now much more pointless than it was before patch. Basically i kill stuff slower, i still get 1-shot from elite mobs and repairs are 4 times more expensive.
Alot of DH are spoiled tho and im sure most of the ias nerfs were directed at them. You still outdamage a WD and a WIZ, just a little less then before now.
Can anyone confirm that goblins drop more rare items since the patch? At least with 5 NV stacks that seems to be the case. Seems to me they changed this together with the 1 additional rare on champion packs.
On June 21 2012 17:53 ihasaKAROT wrote: Alot of DH are spoiled tho and im sure most of the ias nerfs were directed at them. You still outdamage a WD and a WIZ, just a little less then before now.
I think thats very far far from true, it seems most DHs lost only about 20% (dropping 95k > 80k or something) while wizards overall lost more... my wizard went from 46k to 31k, lost over 32%.
Have seen even wizards losing 40-50% DPS, but DHs remains quite intact by this.
On June 21 2012 17:53 ihasaKAROT wrote: Alot of DH are spoiled tho and im sure most of the ias nerfs were directed at them. You still outdamage a WD and a WIZ, just a little less then before now.
I think thats very far far from true, it seems most DHs lost only about 20% (dropping 95k > 80k or something) while wizards overall lost more... my wizard went from 46k to 31k, lost over 32%.
Have seen even wizards losing 40-50% DPS, but DHs remains quite intact by this.
Wizards lost a lot of "displayed dps" since they fixed the way your damage was displaying via magic weapon.
Demon Hunter and Wizard both geared for the same amount of AS, lost the same amount of AS. (excluding quivers)
Also if you were using an AS weapon, your numbers might be drastically different from a DH without an as weapon.
Wizards didn't lose nearly as much dps as they think, now they're just seeing a closer value to what their dps actually was before the patch. IAS is only useful up to a certain point for Wizards, because eventually you just AP starve yourself. It made our display DPS a lot higher, yes, but it wasn't nearly as useful as stacking crit/crit dmg. When using daggers/swords/wands, there's really no reason to have more than 10% new IAS. There was a wizard in my friends list using a dagger with over 50% IAS and it was really making me facepalm. If you're using a low 2h then sure, but else it's just a waste.
On June 21 2012 18:32 Teliko wrote: Wizards didn't lose nearly as much dps as they think, now they're just seeing a closer value to what their dps actually was before the patch. IAS is only useful up to a certain point for Wizards, because eventually you just AP starve yourself. It made our display DPS a lot higher, yes, but it wasn't nearly as useful as stacking crit/crit dmg. When using daggers/swords/wands, there's really no reason to have more than 10% new IAS. There was a wizard in my friends list using a dagger with over 50% IAS and it was really making me facepalm. If you're using a low 2h then sure, but else it's just a waste.
IAS is good for wizards because it allows you to unload AP fast and get away back into kiting range. You point stands accurate for overstacking IAS. I tested aggregate attack speeds from 0.9 to 1.5 and 1.3 feels just perfect. Now I stand at 1.07 and I often times find myself running away with full AP. A positive side of low attack speed is that you get to 1 shoot weak normal mobs. It really simplifies the whole grinding process, provided that you farm at the level where you can in fact 1 shoot normal mobs. That is Act 2 for me. At Act 3/4 I would appreciate more IAS, but since stacking IAS is impossible now, I think I'll just stick to farming Act 2 until I get enough intelligence to 1 shoot normal mobs in Act 3.
On June 21 2012 18:32 Teliko wrote: Wizards didn't lose nearly as much dps as they think, now they're just seeing a closer value to what their dps actually was before the patch. IAS is only useful up to a certain point for Wizards, because eventually you just AP starve yourself. It made our display DPS a lot higher, yes, but it wasn't nearly as useful as stacking crit/crit dmg. When using daggers/swords/wands, there's really no reason to have more than 10% new IAS. There was a wizard in my friends list using a dagger with over 50% IAS and it was really making me facepalm. If you're using a low 2h then sure, but else it's just a waste.
IAS is good for wizards because it allows you to unload AP fast and get away back into kiting range. You point stands accurate for overstacking IAS. I tested aggregate attack speeds from 0.9 to 1.5 and 1.3 feels just perfect. Now I stand at 1.07 and I often times find myself running away with full AP. A positive side of low attack speed is that you get to 1 shoot weak normal mobs. It really simplifies the whole grinding process, provided that you farm at the level where you can in fact 1 shoot normal mobs. That is Act 2 for me. At Act 3/4 I would appreciate more IAS, but since stacking IAS is impossible now, I think I'll just stick to farming Act 2 until I get enough intelligence to 1 shoot normal mobs in Act 3.
Well yes, I won't argue that it's nice to have some IAS if your weapon is slow, you just really need to be able to find the point you can attack enough comfortably without hitting 100% AP too often. Personally my sweet spot is around 1.5APS. Any higher and I feel like it's a waste of a stat, so optimally I'd be using daggers, but I aim to use wands with lacuni prowlers which gets me at around 1.47 which I'm perfectly happy with. After that, I stack crit and crit dmg. Again, obviously if you want to hit hard with a slow 2h, you'll need to stack a lot more, because anything below around 1.1aps will probably get you killed trying to kite. Currently on act 3 myself and farming happily with 1.47aps.
1) redefine difficulty levels and make max. char level 99 2) remove freakin cooldown from potions and make potions expensive 3) make bosses drop better loot and make them twice as hard 4) optional but not possible - remove RMAH
Then we would have Diablo game instead of some crappy wow hybrid.
On June 21 2012 23:42 Ricjames wrote: BTW all they needed to do are the following:
1) redefine difficulty levels and make max. char level 99 2) remove freakin cooldown from potions and make potions expensive 3) make bosses drop better loot and make them twice as hard 4) optional but not possible - remove RMAH
Then we would have Diablo game instead of some crappy wow hybrid.
1) Lvl 60 is much better, no unfair level advantage in pvp (well maybe not ''unfair'', but who really takes the time to lvl to 99 or even close to that?).
2) Much better with cool down, so you can't just smash the lol full hp button everytime you got yourself in a hard spot.
3) They obviously don't want people to kill 1 boss, leave game and make the next 1.
4) What's wrong with rmah? Personally i stopped using paypal long ago for obvious reasons, but i can still use it as a better ingame currency than gold and perhaps buy some blizz games with it (hopefully hots).
Removing the pot cooldown and making them more expensive just means the high end farmers with millions of gold can make as many mistakes as they want while the casuals can't afford to make any. Maybe another higher level pot or something, but it has to have a cooldown, that's not really debatable.
My god these drop rates are killing me. Collected almost 2 full pages of rares in my stash from act 3 and there was only like 5 that werent vendor trash. Why Blizzard
On June 21 2012 23:42 Ricjames wrote: BTW all they needed to do are the following:
1) redefine difficulty levels and make max. char level 99 2) remove freakin cooldown from potions and make potions expensive 3) make bosses drop better loot and make them twice as hard 4) optional but not possible - remove RMAH
Then we would have Diablo game instead of some crappy wow hybrid.
1) Lvl 60 is much better, no unfair level advantage in pvp (well maybe not ''unfair'', but who really takes the time to lvl to 99 or even close to that?).
2) Much better with cool down, so you can't just smash the lol full hp button everytime you got yourself in a hard spot.
3) They obviously don't want people to kill 1 boss, leave game and make the next 1.
4) What's wrong with rmah? Personally i stopped using paypal long ago for obvious reasons, but i can still use it as a better ingame currency than gold and perhaps buy some blizz games with it (hopefully hots).
There are a few things you clearly don't understand here. And in diablo2 they were resolved, maybe the developers got lucky or maybe they planned it from the start but here's the deal:
1) Let me just say right away, there is no pvp in d3 so your point is already invalid but for the sake of it. Previous instalments had pvp but it was never the focus of the game. You could declare hostility versus a players above lvl 9, so it was never balanced. And blizzard said, they don't want to balance pvp so, what's the point here exactly? On top of that, the main reason why lvl 60 is horrible is because once you're at max level, you have nothing else to do. You can only try and beat the game on hardest difficulty. Okay. You can farm for gear... but why would you? In diablo 2, if you played without rushing, there is no way you could have reached 99 by the end of Hell, specifically in vanilla d2. So in the end you still had some levels ahead of you that you would just get by farming gear. Those levels gave you more stat points and more skill points and you had some higher level gear that you couldn't equip yet until you leveled up. In d3, there is none of that. You just have inferno to beat but there is really nothing to motivate you to do it, combine that with god awful item design and overall loot drop system and you really start having second thoughts. You mention, why would anyone level all the way to 99? Well, you don't have to go all the way up there but it's nice to have something else to look for after you've beaten the game, don't you think?
2) So now, instead of potion spam we have people either chain-ressing each other or just kiting elites to the checkpoint where you can res and get back in the fight immediatly. There is really nothing wrong with potion spam, because it replaces skills that give u regen or healing skills. And now you have more options: Either go with no-regen items and just chug the potions or get some regen and use that as your crutch or just put some defensive healing/lifegaining skills on your bar. Besides, the potions in d3 don't even heal 50% of your hp, in some cases that don't even heal 25%.
3) Bosses drop nothing useful if you don't have valor stacks. So now you HAVE to go out there and kill 5 elite packs before you get to do your boss. It feels like a chore not like a game. If bosses dropped good loot but then elite packs would make that loot even better, yeah I can see how people would go out of their way to hunt down mobs. And besides, what's wrong with killing the same boss over and over? Gaming is very repetitive, in starcraft you have your openings and builds that you refine and you do them over and over again... Why can't I find a way to kill diablo fast and just do that? They have these random events in the world, well how about spawning some rare bosses during those events that drop cool loot. That would encourage players to go out there and do them.
4) There is nothing wrong with rmah, I agree on this one. In d2 you could go online and buy items, no problem. rmah is just an easier ans safer way of doing so. The only problem with rmah in d3, and it's not so much the AH itself but it's that bland, uninspired, boring itemisation in the game. No item feels unique. And partially the reason for that is the whole stats-on-items system that they have gone with. That's for another discussion though
On June 21 2012 23:42 Ricjames wrote: BTW all they needed to do are the following:
1) redefine difficulty levels and make max. char level 99 2) remove freakin cooldown from potions and make potions expensive 3) make bosses drop better loot and make them twice as hard 4) optional but not possible - remove RMAH
Then we would have Diablo game instead of some crappy wow hybrid.
1) Lvl 60 is much better, no unfair level advantage in pvp (well maybe not ''unfair'', but who really takes the time to lvl to 99 or even close to that?).
2) Much better with cool down, so you can't just smash the lol full hp button everytime you got yourself in a hard spot.
3) They obviously don't want people to kill 1 boss, leave game and make the next 1.
4) What's wrong with rmah? Personally i stopped using paypal long ago for obvious reasons, but i can still use it as a better ingame currency than gold and perhaps buy some blizz games with it (hopefully hots).
There are a few things you clearly don't understand here. And in diablo2 they were resolved, maybe the developers got lucky or maybe they planned it from the start but here's the deal:
1) Let me just say right away, there is no pvp in d3 so your point is already invalid but for the sake of it. Previous instalments had pvp but it was never the focus of the game. You could declare hostility versus a players above lvl 9, so it was never balanced. And blizzard said, they don't want to balance pvp so, what's the point here exactly? On top of that, the main reason why lvl 60 is horrible is because once you're at max level, you have nothing else to do. You can only try and beat the game on hardest difficulty. Okay. You can farm for gear... but why would you? In diablo 2, if you played without rushing, there is no way you could have reached 99 by the end of Hell, specifically in vanilla d2. So in the end you still had some levels ahead of you that you would just get by farming gear. Those levels gave you more stat points and more skill points and you had some higher level gear that you couldn't equip yet until you leveled up. In d3, there is none of that. You just have inferno to beat but there is really nothing to motivate you to do it, combine that with god awful item design and overall loot drop system and you really start having second thoughts. You mention, why would anyone level all the way to 99? Well, you don't have to go all the way up there but it's nice to have something else to look for after you've beaten the game, don't you think?
2) So now, instead of potion spam we have people either chain-ressing each other or just kiting elites to the checkpoint where you can res and get back in the fight immediatly. There is really nothing wrong with potion spam, because it replaces skills that give u regen or healing skills. And now you have more options: Either go with no-regen items and just chug the potions or get some regen and use that as your crutch or just put some defensive healing/lifegaining skills on your bar. Besides, the potions in d3 don't even heal 50% of your hp, in some cases that don't even heal 25%.
3) Bosses drop nothing useful if you don't have valor stacks. So now you HAVE to go out there and kill 5 elite packs before you get to do your boss. It feels like a chore not like a game. If bosses dropped good loot but then elite packs would make that loot even better, yeah I can see how people would go out of their way to hunt down mobs. And besides, what's wrong with killing the same boss over and over? Gaming is very repetitive, in starcraft you have your openings and builds that you refine and you do them over and over again... Why can't I find a way to kill diablo fast and just do that? They have these random events in the world, well how about spawning some rare bosses during those events that drop cool loot. That would encourage players to go out there and do them.
4) There is nothing wrong with rmah, I agree on this one. In d2 you could go online and buy items, no problem. rmah is just an easier ans safer way of doing so. The only problem with rmah in d3, and it's not so much the AH itself but it's that bland, uninspired, boring itemisation in the game. No item feels unique. And partially the reason for that is the whole stats-on-items system that they have gone with. That's for another discussion though
Seems like you don't understand.
1) PvP is scheduled to come out in a later patch, and they'll balance it then. PvE is their first priority. Inferno was designed to be an optional difficulty level, for players who completed the game on hell and reached level 60 and "want something more". If you think the item design of D3 is god-awful, think about the design of D2. Not much better, in fact much more terrible.
2) Have fun chain-ressing with the increased repair costs. It was an unintended exploit, and thus it got nerfed. Potion spam is just plain retarded. Now, you actually have to play cautiously and carefully consider potion usage instead of facetanking everything. Although I will agree that a higher level potion should exist, and maybe the cooldown should be reduced to 15-20s.
3) Blizzard specifically didn't want people to do endless boss runs. That's why in patch 1.03, it's equally profitable to kill a boss or an elite, although some bosses are easier to kill because their mechanics are predictable and they don't have crazy affixes.
4) AH and RMAH is good in the sense that item trading is incorporated within the game, and you don't have to visit shady websites. I don't see why you're complaining about "no item feels unique" when D2 was a total fail in that regard.
I thought blizzard said they had no intention of making PvP balanced for competitive play? It always makes me laugh when I see posts that say "quit d3, might come back for PvP". Don't think PvP will be a saving grace for anyone, unless they changed there minds about how serious they will implement it.
On June 21 2012 23:42 Ricjames wrote: BTW all they needed to do are the following:
1) redefine difficulty levels and make max. char level 99 2) remove freakin cooldown from potions and make potions expensive 3) make bosses drop better loot and make them twice as hard 4) optional but not possible - remove RMAH
Then we would have Diablo game instead of some crappy wow hybrid.
1) Lvl 60 is much better, no unfair level advantage in pvp (well maybe not ''unfair'', but who really takes the time to lvl to 99 or even close to that?).
2) Much better with cool down, so you can't just smash the lol full hp button everytime you got yourself in a hard spot.
3) They obviously don't want people to kill 1 boss, leave game and make the next 1.
4) What's wrong with rmah? Personally i stopped using paypal long ago for obvious reasons, but i can still use it as a better ingame currency than gold and perhaps buy some blizz games with it (hopefully hots).
There are a few things you clearly don't understand here. And in diablo2 they were resolved, maybe the developers got lucky or maybe they planned it from the start but here's the deal:
1) Let me just say right away, there is no pvp in d3 so your point is already invalid but for the sake of it. Previous instalments had pvp but it was never the focus of the game. You could declare hostility versus a players above lvl 9, so it was never balanced. And blizzard said, they don't want to balance pvp so, what's the point here exactly? On top of that, the main reason why lvl 60 is horrible is because once you're at max level, you have nothing else to do. You can only try and beat the game on hardest difficulty. Okay. You can farm for gear... but why would you? In diablo 2, if you played without rushing, there is no way you could have reached 99 by the end of Hell, specifically in vanilla d2. So in the end you still had some levels ahead of you that you would just get by farming gear. Those levels gave you more stat points and more skill points and you had some higher level gear that you couldn't equip yet until you leveled up. In d3, there is none of that. You just have inferno to beat but there is really nothing to motivate you to do it, combine that with god awful item design and overall loot drop system and you really start having second thoughts. You mention, why would anyone level all the way to 99? Well, you don't have to go all the way up there but it's nice to have something else to look for after you've beaten the game, don't you think?
2) So now, instead of potion spam we have people either chain-ressing each other or just kiting elites to the checkpoint where you can res and get back in the fight immediatly. There is really nothing wrong with potion spam, because it replaces skills that give u regen or healing skills. And now you have more options: Either go with no-regen items and just chug the potions or get some regen and use that as your crutch or just put some defensive healing/lifegaining skills on your bar. Besides, the potions in d3 don't even heal 50% of your hp, in some cases that don't even heal 25%.
3) Bosses drop nothing useful if you don't have valor stacks. So now you HAVE to go out there and kill 5 elite packs before you get to do your boss. It feels like a chore not like a game. If bosses dropped good loot but then elite packs would make that loot even better, yeah I can see how people would go out of their way to hunt down mobs. And besides, what's wrong with killing the same boss over and over? Gaming is very repetitive, in starcraft you have your openings and builds that you refine and you do them over and over again... Why can't I find a way to kill diablo fast and just do that? They have these random events in the world, well how about spawning some rare bosses during those events that drop cool loot. That would encourage players to go out there and do them.
4) There is nothing wrong with rmah, I agree on this one. In d2 you could go online and buy items, no problem. rmah is just an easier ans safer way of doing so. The only problem with rmah in d3, and it's not so much the AH itself but it's that bland, uninspired, boring itemisation in the game. No item feels unique. And partially the reason for that is the whole stats-on-items system that they have gone with. That's for another discussion though
Seems like you don't understand.
1) PvP is scheduled to come out in a later patch, and they'll balance it then. PvE is their first priority. Inferno was designed to be an optional difficulty level, for players who completed the game on hell and reached level 60 and "want something more". If you think the item design of D3 is god-awful, think about the design of D2. Not much better, in fact much more terrible.
2) Have fun chain-ressing with the increased repair costs. It was an unintended exploit, and thus it got nerfed. Potion spam is just plain retarded. Now, you actually have to play cautiously and carefully consider potion usage instead of facetanking everything. Although I will agree that a higher level potion should exist, and maybe the cooldown should be reduced to 15-20s.
3) Blizzard specifically didn't want people to do endless boss runs. That's why in patch 1.03, it's equally profitable to kill a boss or an elite, although some bosses are easier to kill because their mechanics are predictable and they don't have crazy affixes.
4) AH and RMAH is good in the sense that item trading is incorporated within the game, and you don't have to visit shady websites. I don't see why you're complaining about "no item feels unique" when D2 was a total fail in that regard.
Thank you for some support MyBattleship. He clearly doesn't get it, that's fine. All i want to say that this is hack and slash game, not hack run run run run slash game. I feel like playing wow despite i have never tried it.
Inferno being a bonus for people that finished the game on HELL - you have to be kidding me, right? Until inferno the game is a tutorial to try out what skill choices you have and the real game starts on inferno. Unfortunately it also ends right where it started, because you have already reached max. level.
On June 21 2012 23:42 Ricjames wrote: BTW all they needed to do are the following:
1) redefine difficulty levels and make max. char level 99 2) remove freakin cooldown from potions and make potions expensive 3) make bosses drop better loot and make them twice as hard 4) optional but not possible - remove RMAH
Then we would have Diablo game instead of some crappy wow hybrid.
1) Lvl 60 is much better, no unfair level advantage in pvp (well maybe not ''unfair'', but who really takes the time to lvl to 99 or even close to that?).
2) Much better with cool down, so you can't just smash the lol full hp button everytime you got yourself in a hard spot.
3) They obviously don't want people to kill 1 boss, leave game and make the next 1.
4) What's wrong with rmah? Personally i stopped using paypal long ago for obvious reasons, but i can still use it as a better ingame currency than gold and perhaps buy some blizz games with it (hopefully hots).
There are a few things you clearly don't understand here. And in diablo2 they were resolved, maybe the developers got lucky or maybe they planned it from the start but here's the deal:
1) Let me just say right away, there is no pvp in d3 so your point is already invalid but for the sake of it. Previous instalments had pvp but it was never the focus of the game. You could declare hostility versus a players above lvl 9, so it was never balanced. And blizzard said, they don't want to balance pvp so, what's the point here exactly? On top of that, the main reason why lvl 60 is horrible is because once you're at max level, you have nothing else to do. You can only try and beat the game on hardest difficulty. Okay. You can farm for gear... but why would you? In diablo 2, if you played without rushing, there is no way you could have reached 99 by the end of Hell, specifically in vanilla d2. So in the end you still had some levels ahead of you that you would just get by farming gear. Those levels gave you more stat points and more skill points and you had some higher level gear that you couldn't equip yet until you leveled up. In d3, there is none of that. You just have inferno to beat but there is really nothing to motivate you to do it, combine that with god awful item design and overall loot drop system and you really start having second thoughts. You mention, why would anyone level all the way to 99? Well, you don't have to go all the way up there but it's nice to have something else to look for after you've beaten the game, don't you think?
2) So now, instead of potion spam we have people either chain-ressing each other or just kiting elites to the checkpoint where you can res and get back in the fight immediatly. There is really nothing wrong with potion spam, because it replaces skills that give u regen or healing skills. And now you have more options: Either go with no-regen items and just chug the potions or get some regen and use that as your crutch or just put some defensive healing/lifegaining skills on your bar. Besides, the potions in d3 don't even heal 50% of your hp, in some cases that don't even heal 25%.
3) Bosses drop nothing useful if you don't have valor stacks. So now you HAVE to go out there and kill 5 elite packs before you get to do your boss. It feels like a chore not like a game. If bosses dropped good loot but then elite packs would make that loot even better, yeah I can see how people would go out of their way to hunt down mobs. And besides, what's wrong with killing the same boss over and over? Gaming is very repetitive, in starcraft you have your openings and builds that you refine and you do them over and over again... Why can't I find a way to kill diablo fast and just do that? They have these random events in the world, well how about spawning some rare bosses during those events that drop cool loot. That would encourage players to go out there and do them.
4) There is nothing wrong with rmah, I agree on this one. In d2 you could go online and buy items, no problem. rmah is just an easier ans safer way of doing so. The only problem with rmah in d3, and it's not so much the AH itself but it's that bland, uninspired, boring itemisation in the game. No item feels unique. And partially the reason for that is the whole stats-on-items system that they have gone with. That's for another discussion though
Seems like you don't understand.
1) PvP is scheduled to come out in a later patch, and they'll balance it then. PvE is their first priority. Inferno was designed to be an optional difficulty level, for players who completed the game on hell and reached level 60 and "want something more". If you think the item design of D3 is god-awful, think about the design of D2. Not much better, in fact much more terrible.
2) Have fun chain-ressing with the increased repair costs. It was an unintended exploit, and thus it got nerfed. Potion spam is just plain retarded. Now, you actually have to play cautiously and carefully consider potion usage instead of facetanking everything. Although I will agree that a higher level potion should exist, and maybe the cooldown should be reduced to 15-20s.
3) Blizzard specifically didn't want people to do endless boss runs. That's why in patch 1.03, it's equally profitable to kill a boss or an elite, although some bosses are easier to kill because their mechanics are predictable and they don't have crazy affixes.
4) AH and RMAH is good in the sense that item trading is incorporated within the game, and you don't have to visit shady websites. I don't see why you're complaining about "no item feels unique" when D2 was a total fail in that regard.
Thank you for some support MyBattleship. He clearly doesn't get it, that's fine. All i want to say that this is hack and slash game, not hack run run run run slash game. I feel like playing wow despite i have never tried it.
Inferno being a bonus for people that finished the game on HELL - you have to be kidding me, right? Until inferno the game is a tutorial to try out what skill choices you have and the real game starts on inferno. Unfortunately it also ends right where it started, because you have already reached max. level.
On June 21 2012 23:42 Ricjames wrote: BTW all they needed to do are the following:
1) redefine difficulty levels and make max. char level 99 2) remove freakin cooldown from potions and make potions expensive 3) make bosses drop better loot and make them twice as hard 4) optional but not possible - remove RMAH
Then we would have Diablo game instead of some crappy wow hybrid.
1) Lvl 60 is much better, no unfair level advantage in pvp (well maybe not ''unfair'', but who really takes the time to lvl to 99 or even close to that?).
2) Much better with cool down, so you can't just smash the lol full hp button everytime you got yourself in a hard spot.
3) They obviously don't want people to kill 1 boss, leave game and make the next 1.
4) What's wrong with rmah? Personally i stopped using paypal long ago for obvious reasons, but i can still use it as a better ingame currency than gold and perhaps buy some blizz games with it (hopefully hots).
There are a few things you clearly don't understand here. And in diablo2 they were resolved, maybe the developers got lucky or maybe they planned it from the start but here's the deal:
1) Let me just say right away, there is no pvp in d3 so your point is already invalid but for the sake of it. Previous instalments had pvp but it was never the focus of the game. You could declare hostility versus a players above lvl 9, so it was never balanced. And blizzard said, they don't want to balance pvp so, what's the point here exactly? On top of that, the main reason why lvl 60 is horrible is because once you're at max level, you have nothing else to do. You can only try and beat the game on hardest difficulty. Okay. You can farm for gear... but why would you? In diablo 2, if you played without rushing, there is no way you could have reached 99 by the end of Hell, specifically in vanilla d2. So in the end you still had some levels ahead of you that you would just get by farming gear. Those levels gave you more stat points and more skill points and you had some higher level gear that you couldn't equip yet until you leveled up. In d3, there is none of that. You just have inferno to beat but there is really nothing to motivate you to do it, combine that with god awful item design and overall loot drop system and you really start having second thoughts. You mention, why would anyone level all the way to 99? Well, you don't have to go all the way up there but it's nice to have something else to look for after you've beaten the game, don't you think?
2) So now, instead of potion spam we have people either chain-ressing each other or just kiting elites to the checkpoint where you can res and get back in the fight immediatly. There is really nothing wrong with potion spam, because it replaces skills that give u regen or healing skills. And now you have more options: Either go with no-regen items and just chug the potions or get some regen and use that as your crutch or just put some defensive healing/lifegaining skills on your bar. Besides, the potions in d3 don't even heal 50% of your hp, in some cases that don't even heal 25%.
3) Bosses drop nothing useful if you don't have valor stacks. So now you HAVE to go out there and kill 5 elite packs before you get to do your boss. It feels like a chore not like a game. If bosses dropped good loot but then elite packs would make that loot even better, yeah I can see how people would go out of their way to hunt down mobs. And besides, what's wrong with killing the same boss over and over? Gaming is very repetitive, in starcraft you have your openings and builds that you refine and you do them over and over again... Why can't I find a way to kill diablo fast and just do that? They have these random events in the world, well how about spawning some rare bosses during those events that drop cool loot. That would encourage players to go out there and do them.
4) There is nothing wrong with rmah, I agree on this one. In d2 you could go online and buy items, no problem. rmah is just an easier ans safer way of doing so. The only problem with rmah in d3, and it's not so much the AH itself but it's that bland, uninspired, boring itemisation in the game. No item feels unique. And partially the reason for that is the whole stats-on-items system that they have gone with. That's for another discussion though
Seems like you don't understand.
1) PvP is scheduled to come out in a later patch, and they'll balance it then. PvE is their first priority. Inferno was designed to be an optional difficulty level, for players who completed the game on hell and reached level 60 and "want something more". If you think the item design of D3 is god-awful, think about the design of D2. Not much better, in fact much more terrible.
2) Have fun chain-ressing with the increased repair costs. It was an unintended exploit, and thus it got nerfed. Potion spam is just plain retarded. Now, you actually have to play cautiously and carefully consider potion usage instead of facetanking everything. Although I will agree that a higher level potion should exist, and maybe the cooldown should be reduced to 15-20s.
3) Blizzard specifically didn't want people to do endless boss runs. That's why in patch 1.03, it's equally profitable to kill a boss or an elite, although some bosses are easier to kill because their mechanics are predictable and they don't have crazy affixes.
4) AH and RMAH is good in the sense that item trading is incorporated within the game, and you don't have to visit shady websites. I don't see why you're complaining about "no item feels unique" when D2 was a total fail in that regard.
Thank you for some support MyBattleship. He clearly doesn't get it, that's fine. All i want to say that this is hack and slash game, not hack run run run run slash game. I feel like playing wow despite i have never tried it.
Inferno being a bonus for people that finished the game on HELL - you have to be kidding me, right? Until inferno the game is a tutorial to try out what skill choices you have and the real game starts on inferno. Unfortunately it also ends right where it started, because you have already reached max. level.
On June 21 2012 23:42 Ricjames wrote: BTW all they needed to do are the following:
1) redefine difficulty levels and make max. char level 99 2) remove freakin cooldown from potions and make potions expensive 3) make bosses drop better loot and make them twice as hard 4) optional but not possible - remove RMAH
Then we would have Diablo game instead of some crappy wow hybrid.
1) Lvl 60 is much better, no unfair level advantage in pvp (well maybe not ''unfair'', but who really takes the time to lvl to 99 or even close to that?).
2) Much better with cool down, so you can't just smash the lol full hp button everytime you got yourself in a hard spot.
3) They obviously don't want people to kill 1 boss, leave game and make the next 1.
4) What's wrong with rmah? Personally i stopped using paypal long ago for obvious reasons, but i can still use it as a better ingame currency than gold and perhaps buy some blizz games with it (hopefully hots).
There are a few things you clearly don't understand here. And in diablo2 they were resolved, maybe the developers got lucky or maybe they planned it from the start but here's the deal:
1) Let me just say right away, there is no pvp in d3 so your point is already invalid but for the sake of it. Previous instalments had pvp but it was never the focus of the game. You could declare hostility versus a players above lvl 9, so it was never balanced. And blizzard said, they don't want to balance pvp so, what's the point here exactly? On top of that, the main reason why lvl 60 is horrible is because once you're at max level, you have nothing else to do. You can only try and beat the game on hardest difficulty. Okay. You can farm for gear... but why would you? In diablo 2, if you played without rushing, there is no way you could have reached 99 by the end of Hell, specifically in vanilla d2. So in the end you still had some levels ahead of you that you would just get by farming gear. Those levels gave you more stat points and more skill points and you had some higher level gear that you couldn't equip yet until you leveled up. In d3, there is none of that. You just have inferno to beat but there is really nothing to motivate you to do it, combine that with god awful item design and overall loot drop system and you really start having second thoughts. You mention, why would anyone level all the way to 99? Well, you don't have to go all the way up there but it's nice to have something else to look for after you've beaten the game, don't you think?
2) So now, instead of potion spam we have people either chain-ressing each other or just kiting elites to the checkpoint where you can res and get back in the fight immediatly. There is really nothing wrong with potion spam, because it replaces skills that give u regen or healing skills. And now you have more options: Either go with no-regen items and just chug the potions or get some regen and use that as your crutch or just put some defensive healing/lifegaining skills on your bar. Besides, the potions in d3 don't even heal 50% of your hp, in some cases that don't even heal 25%.
3) Bosses drop nothing useful if you don't have valor stacks. So now you HAVE to go out there and kill 5 elite packs before you get to do your boss. It feels like a chore not like a game. If bosses dropped good loot but then elite packs would make that loot even better, yeah I can see how people would go out of their way to hunt down mobs. And besides, what's wrong with killing the same boss over and over? Gaming is very repetitive, in starcraft you have your openings and builds that you refine and you do them over and over again... Why can't I find a way to kill diablo fast and just do that? They have these random events in the world, well how about spawning some rare bosses during those events that drop cool loot. That would encourage players to go out there and do them.
4) There is nothing wrong with rmah, I agree on this one. In d2 you could go online and buy items, no problem. rmah is just an easier ans safer way of doing so. The only problem with rmah in d3, and it's not so much the AH itself but it's that bland, uninspired, boring itemisation in the game. No item feels unique. And partially the reason for that is the whole stats-on-items system that they have gone with. That's for another discussion though
Seems like you don't understand.
1) PvP is scheduled to come out in a later patch, and they'll balance it then. PvE is their first priority. Inferno was designed to be an optional difficulty level, for players who completed the game on hell and reached level 60 and "want something more". If you think the item design of D3 is god-awful, think about the design of D2. Not much better, in fact much more terrible.
2) Have fun chain-ressing with the increased repair costs. It was an unintended exploit, and thus it got nerfed. Potion spam is just plain retarded. Now, you actually have to play cautiously and carefully consider potion usage instead of facetanking everything. Although I will agree that a higher level potion should exist, and maybe the cooldown should be reduced to 15-20s.
3) Blizzard specifically didn't want people to do endless boss runs. That's why in patch 1.03, it's equally profitable to kill a boss or an elite, although some bosses are easier to kill because their mechanics are predictable and they don't have crazy affixes.
4) AH and RMAH is good in the sense that item trading is incorporated within the game, and you don't have to visit shady websites. I don't see why you're complaining about "no item feels unique" when D2 was a total fail in that regard.
Thank you for some support MyBattleship. He clearly doesn't get it, that's fine. All i want to say that this is hack and slash game, not hack run run run run slash game. I feel like playing wow despite i have never tried it.
Inferno being a bonus for people that finished the game on HELL - you have to be kidding me, right? Until inferno the game is a tutorial to try out what skill choices you have and the real game starts on inferno. Unfortunately it also ends right where it started, because you have already reached max. level.
On June 21 2012 23:42 Ricjames wrote: BTW all they needed to do are the following:
1) redefine difficulty levels and make max. char level 99 2) remove freakin cooldown from potions and make potions expensive 3) make bosses drop better loot and make them twice as hard 4) optional but not possible - remove RMAH
Then we would have Diablo game instead of some crappy wow hybrid.
1) Lvl 60 is much better, no unfair level advantage in pvp (well maybe not ''unfair'', but who really takes the time to lvl to 99 or even close to that?).
2) Much better with cool down, so you can't just smash the lol full hp button everytime you got yourself in a hard spot.
3) They obviously don't want people to kill 1 boss, leave game and make the next 1.
4) What's wrong with rmah? Personally i stopped using paypal long ago for obvious reasons, but i can still use it as a better ingame currency than gold and perhaps buy some blizz games with it (hopefully hots).
There are a few things you clearly don't understand here. And in diablo2 they were resolved, maybe the developers got lucky or maybe they planned it from the start but here's the deal:
1) Let me just say right away, there is no pvp in d3 so your point is already invalid but for the sake of it. Previous instalments had pvp but it was never the focus of the game. You could declare hostility versus a players above lvl 9, so it was never balanced. And blizzard said, they don't want to balance pvp so, what's the point here exactly? On top of that, the main reason why lvl 60 is horrible is because once you're at max level, you have nothing else to do. You can only try and beat the game on hardest difficulty. Okay. You can farm for gear... but why would you? In diablo 2, if you played without rushing, there is no way you could have reached 99 by the end of Hell, specifically in vanilla d2. So in the end you still had some levels ahead of you that you would just get by farming gear. Those levels gave you more stat points and more skill points and you had some higher level gear that you couldn't equip yet until you leveled up. In d3, there is none of that. You just have inferno to beat but there is really nothing to motivate you to do it, combine that with god awful item design and overall loot drop system and you really start having second thoughts. You mention, why would anyone level all the way to 99? Well, you don't have to go all the way up there but it's nice to have something else to look for after you've beaten the game, don't you think?
2) So now, instead of potion spam we have people either chain-ressing each other or just kiting elites to the checkpoint where you can res and get back in the fight immediatly. There is really nothing wrong with potion spam, because it replaces skills that give u regen or healing skills. And now you have more options: Either go with no-regen items and just chug the potions or get some regen and use that as your crutch or just put some defensive healing/lifegaining skills on your bar. Besides, the potions in d3 don't even heal 50% of your hp, in some cases that don't even heal 25%.
3) Bosses drop nothing useful if you don't have valor stacks. So now you HAVE to go out there and kill 5 elite packs before you get to do your boss. It feels like a chore not like a game. If bosses dropped good loot but then elite packs would make that loot even better, yeah I can see how people would go out of their way to hunt down mobs. And besides, what's wrong with killing the same boss over and over? Gaming is very repetitive, in starcraft you have your openings and builds that you refine and you do them over and over again... Why can't I find a way to kill diablo fast and just do that? They have these random events in the world, well how about spawning some rare bosses during those events that drop cool loot. That would encourage players to go out there and do them.
4) There is nothing wrong with rmah, I agree on this one. In d2 you could go online and buy items, no problem. rmah is just an easier ans safer way of doing so. The only problem with rmah in d3, and it's not so much the AH itself but it's that bland, uninspired, boring itemisation in the game. No item feels unique. And partially the reason for that is the whole stats-on-items system that they have gone with. That's for another discussion though
Seems like you don't understand.
1) PvP is scheduled to come out in a later patch, and they'll balance it then. PvE is their first priority. Inferno was designed to be an optional difficulty level, for players who completed the game on hell and reached level 60 and "want something more". If you think the item design of D3 is god-awful, think about the design of D2. Not much better, in fact much more terrible.
2) Have fun chain-ressing with the increased repair costs. It was an unintended exploit, and thus it got nerfed. Potion spam is just plain retarded. Now, you actually have to play cautiously and carefully consider potion usage instead of facetanking everything. Although I will agree that a higher level potion should exist, and maybe the cooldown should be reduced to 15-20s.
3) Blizzard specifically didn't want people to do endless boss runs. That's why in patch 1.03, it's equally profitable to kill a boss or an elite, although some bosses are easier to kill because their mechanics are predictable and they don't have crazy affixes.
4) AH and RMAH is good in the sense that item trading is incorporated within the game, and you don't have to visit shady websites. I don't see why you're complaining about "no item feels unique" when D2 was a total fail in that regard.
Thank you for some support MyBattleship. He clearly doesn't get it, that's fine. All i want to say that this is hack and slash game, not hack run run run run slash game. I feel like playing wow despite i have never tried it.
Inferno being a bonus for people that finished the game on HELL - you have to be kidding me, right? Until inferno the game is a tutorial to try out what skill choices you have and the real game starts on inferno. Unfortunately it also ends right where it started, because you have already reached max. level.
Stop making up bullshit about WoW, then. I have a subscription to it from day 1 of release and current D3 doesn't play like WoW at all. In fact, it's not even remotely close. You guys sound like a bunch of teenagers just hating on the cool thing to hate without really knowing anything about it.
On June 22 2012 00:11 DannyJ wrote: My god these drop rates are killing me. Collected almost 2 full pages of rares in my stash from act 3 and there was only like 5 that werent vendor trash. Why Blizzard
They are doing this to make money over RMAH. Surprised how many people of you don't get this. '
In dedication to those who say "the game is too hard" or "it cost me more to repair than i can even make from farming". Its obvious these people have no idea how the game works. Their characters are under geared for the location their are trying to farm. I have a great idea. Let's go back to the gold old days where we could call a spade a spade, or in this case a noob a noob and not get warned by Teamliquid. These people whining are all noobs and I think its time we band together, point, and laugh at all these noobs who can't survive.
On June 22 2012 02:09 FrOsTyy wrote: I'll start with, lol fuckin noobs!
Okay read on.
In dedication to those who say "the game is too hard" or "it cost me more to repair than i can even make from farming". Its obvious these people have no idea how the game works. Their characters are under geared for the location their are trying to farm. I have a great idea. Let's go back to the gold old days where we could call a spade a spade, or in this case a noob a noob and not get warned by Teamliquid. These people whining are all noobs and I think its time we band together, point, and laugh at all these noobs who can't survive.
Lol fuckin noobs! ^_^
The repair costs are pretty high regardless, since even without dying, you'll need to cough up about 1k gold after 5-10 minutes, since you lose durability over time....
Why not just increase the durability loss when dying to like 30-50%, instead of raising the costs altogether? That actually avoids rezzing to many times to kill one pack, since you'll have to TP for repairs.
On June 22 2012 02:09 FrOsTyy wrote: I'll start with, lol fuckin noobs!
Okay read on.
In dedication to those who say "the game is too hard" or "it cost me more to repair than i can even make from farming". Its obvious these people have no idea how the game works. Their characters are under geared for the location their are trying to farm. I have a great idea. Let's go back to the gold old days where we could call a spade a spade, or in this case a noob a noob and not get warned by Teamliquid. These people whining are all noobs and I think its time we band together, point, and laugh at all these noobs who can't survive.
Lol fuckin noobs! ^_^
The repair costs are pretty high regardless, since even without dying, you'll need to cough up about 1k gold after 5-10 minutes, since you lose durability over time....
Why not just increase the durability loss when dying to like 30-50%, instead of raising the costs altogether? That actually avoids rezzing to many times to kill one pack, since you'll have to TP for repairs.
Blizzard said they are going to reduce the natural wear on items. Its one of the recent blue posts on the bnet forums.
On June 22 2012 00:11 DannyJ wrote: My god these drop rates are killing me. Collected almost 2 full pages of rares in my stash from act 3 and there was only like 5 that werent vendor trash. Why Blizzard
They are doing this to make money over RMAH. Surprised how many people of you don't get this. '
Quick, get the tinfoil hats! You do realize if they make good items drop less, then there will be less good items on the RMAH right?
On June 22 2012 00:11 DannyJ wrote: My god these drop rates are killing me. Collected almost 2 full pages of rares in my stash from act 3 and there was only like 5 that werent vendor trash. Why Blizzard
They are doing this to make money over RMAH. Surprised how many people of you don't get this. '
Quick, get the tinfoil hats! You do realize if they make good items drop less, then there will be less good items on the RMAH right?
ok and you powers of deductive reasoning should therefor lead you to a few conclusions
1) less transaction = less load and lower cost === tax free profit (and lower costs to 3rd party suppliers) 2) transactions are higher = moar dosh
so your point was what exaclty?
ps p[otion cooldown sucks ... id much prefer a potion having a rate of healing and let me spam lots (ie no lol full health madness)
On June 21 2012 23:42 Ricjames wrote: BTW all they needed to do are the following:
1) redefine difficulty levels and make max. char level 99 2) remove freakin cooldown from potions and make potions expensive 3) make bosses drop better loot and make them twice as hard 4) optional but not possible - remove RMAH
Then we would have Diablo game instead of some crappy wow hybrid.
1) Lvl 60 is much better, no unfair level advantage in pvp (well maybe not ''unfair'', but who really takes the time to lvl to 99 or even close to that?).
2) Much better with cool down, so you can't just smash the lol full hp button everytime you got yourself in a hard spot.
3) They obviously don't want people to kill 1 boss, leave game and make the next 1.
4) What's wrong with rmah? Personally i stopped using paypal long ago for obvious reasons, but i can still use it as a better ingame currency than gold and perhaps buy some blizz games with it (hopefully hots).
There are a few things you clearly don't understand here. And in diablo2 they were resolved, maybe the developers got lucky or maybe they planned it from the start but here's the deal:
1) Let me just say right away, there is no pvp in d3 so your point is already invalid but for the sake of it. Previous instalments had pvp but it was never the focus of the game. You could declare hostility versus a players above lvl 9, so it was never balanced. And blizzard said, they don't want to balance pvp so, what's the point here exactly? On top of that, the main reason why lvl 60 is horrible is because once you're at max level, you have nothing else to do. You can only try and beat the game on hardest difficulty. Okay. You can farm for gear... but why would you? In diablo 2, if you played without rushing, there is no way you could have reached 99 by the end of Hell, specifically in vanilla d2. So in the end you still had some levels ahead of you that you would just get by farming gear. Those levels gave you more stat points and more skill points and you had some higher level gear that you couldn't equip yet until you leveled up. In d3, there is none of that. You just have inferno to beat but there is really nothing to motivate you to do it, combine that with god awful item design and overall loot drop system and you really start having second thoughts. You mention, why would anyone level all the way to 99? Well, you don't have to go all the way up there but it's nice to have something else to look for after you've beaten the game, don't you think?
2) So now, instead of potion spam we have people either chain-ressing each other or just kiting elites to the checkpoint where you can res and get back in the fight immediatly. There is really nothing wrong with potion spam, because it replaces skills that give u regen or healing skills. And now you have more options: Either go with no-regen items and just chug the potions or get some regen and use that as your crutch or just put some defensive healing/lifegaining skills on your bar. Besides, the potions in d3 don't even heal 50% of your hp, in some cases that don't even heal 25%.
3) Bosses drop nothing useful if you don't have valor stacks. So now you HAVE to go out there and kill 5 elite packs before you get to do your boss. It feels like a chore not like a game. If bosses dropped good loot but then elite packs would make that loot even better, yeah I can see how people would go out of their way to hunt down mobs. And besides, what's wrong with killing the same boss over and over? Gaming is very repetitive, in starcraft you have your openings and builds that you refine and you do them over and over again... Why can't I find a way to kill diablo fast and just do that? They have these random events in the world, well how about spawning some rare bosses during those events that drop cool loot. That would encourage players to go out there and do them.
4) There is nothing wrong with rmah, I agree on this one. In d2 you could go online and buy items, no problem. rmah is just an easier ans safer way of doing so. The only problem with rmah in d3, and it's not so much the AH itself but it's that bland, uninspired, boring itemisation in the game. No item feels unique. And partially the reason for that is the whole stats-on-items system that they have gone with. That's for another discussion though
Seems like you don't understand.
1) PvP is scheduled to come out in a later patch, and they'll balance it then. PvE is their first priority. Inferno was designed to be an optional difficulty level, for players who completed the game on hell and reached level 60 and "want something more". If you think the item design of D3 is god-awful, think about the design of D2. Not much better, in fact much more terrible.
2) Have fun chain-ressing with the increased repair costs. It was an unintended exploit, and thus it got nerfed. Potion spam is just plain retarded. Now, you actually have to play cautiously and carefully consider potion usage instead of facetanking everything. Although I will agree that a higher level potion should exist, and maybe the cooldown should be reduced to 15-20s.
3) Blizzard specifically didn't want people to do endless boss runs. That's why in patch 1.03, it's equally profitable to kill a boss or an elite, although some bosses are easier to kill because their mechanics are predictable and they don't have crazy affixes.
4) AH and RMAH is good in the sense that item trading is incorporated within the game, and you don't have to visit shady websites. I don't see why you're complaining about "no item feels unique" when D2 was a total fail in that regard.
Thank you for some support MyBattleship. He clearly doesn't get it, that's fine. All i want to say that this is hack and slash game, not hack run run run run slash game. I feel like playing wow despite i have never tried it.
Inferno being a bonus for people that finished the game on HELL - you have to be kidding me, right? Until inferno the game is a tutorial to try out what skill choices you have and the real game starts on inferno. Unfortunately it also ends right where it started, because you have already reached max. level.
Stop making up bullshit about WoW, then. I have a subscription to it from day 1 of release and current D3 doesn't play like WoW at all. In fact, it's not even remotely close. You guys sound like a bunch of teenagers just hating on the cool thing to hate without really knowing anything about it.
Dude! don't you understand that people who haven't tried something are the REAL experts at it? WoW is totally a "hack run run run run slash game". This guy should be hired by Blizzard but he is probably too smart for them so what are we gonna do? I guess hack run run run run slash.
I said it before and I'll say it again, there aren't less high end items dropping. They are just dropping over a larger percentage of the population.
If blizzard kept the old a3/4 drop rate with the new earlier drop rates the market would get flooded with high end items, everyone would have bis items and there would be no more reason to grind. Pulling numbers out of my arse, say 1% of the population was farming act 3/4 before 1.03 while 2% of the population was stuck in act 2 and 5% in act 1. That is a 700% increase to the amount of ppl now able to farm end game items. You can't have the old drop rates with the new drop rates without totally fucking itemization.
On June 22 2012 02:40 serum321 wrote: I said it before and I'll say it again, there aren't less high end items dropping. They are just dropping over a larger percentage of the population.
If blizzard kept the old a3/4 drop rate with the new earlier drop rates the market would get flooded with high end items, everyone would have bis items and there would be no more reason to grind. Pulling numbers out of my arse, say 1% of the population was farming act 3/4 before 1.03 while 2% of the population was stuck in act 2 and 5% in act 1. That is a 700% increase to the amount of ppl now able to farm end game items. You can't have the old drop rates with the new drop rates without totally fucking itemization.
On June 22 2012 02:40 serum321 wrote: I said it before and I'll say it again, there aren't less high end items dropping. They are just dropping over a larger percentage of the population.
If blizzard kept the old a3/4 drop rate with the new earlier drop rates the market would get flooded with high end items, everyone would have bis items and there would be no more reason to grind. Pulling numbers out of my arse, say 1% of the population was farming act 3/4 before 1.03 while 2% of the population was stuck in act 2 and 5% in act 1. That is a 700% increase to the amount of ppl now able to farm end game items. You can't have the old drop rates with the new drop rates without totally fucking itemization.
What I'm curious is does anybody actually know the drop rates for ilvl63 items pre 1.03? The numbers that have been thrown around (20-25%) seem to have been pulled out of somebody's arse..
On June 21 2012 23:42 Ricjames wrote: BTW all they needed to do are the following:
1) redefine difficulty levels and make max. char level 99 2) remove freakin cooldown from potions and make potions expensive 3) make bosses drop better loot and make them twice as hard 4) optional but not possible - remove RMAH
Then we would have Diablo game instead of some crappy wow hybrid.
1) Lvl 60 is much better, no unfair level advantage in pvp (well maybe not ''unfair'', but who really takes the time to lvl to 99 or even close to that?).
2) Much better with cool down, so you can't just smash the lol full hp button everytime you got yourself in a hard spot.
3) They obviously don't want people to kill 1 boss, leave game and make the next 1.
4) What's wrong with rmah? Personally i stopped using paypal long ago for obvious reasons, but i can still use it as a better ingame currency than gold and perhaps buy some blizz games with it (hopefully hots).
There are a few things you clearly don't understand here. And in diablo2 they were resolved, maybe the developers got lucky or maybe they planned it from the start but here's the deal:
1) Let me just say right away, there is no pvp in d3 so your point is already invalid but for the sake of it. Previous instalments had pvp but it was never the focus of the game. You could declare hostility versus a players above lvl 9, so it was never balanced. And blizzard said, they don't want to balance pvp so, what's the point here exactly? On top of that, the main reason why lvl 60 is horrible is because once you're at max level, you have nothing else to do. You can only try and beat the game on hardest difficulty. Okay. You can farm for gear... but why would you? In diablo 2, if you played without rushing, there is no way you could have reached 99 by the end of Hell, specifically in vanilla d2. So in the end you still had some levels ahead of you that you would just get by farming gear. Those levels gave you more stat points and more skill points and you had some higher level gear that you couldn't equip yet until you leveled up. In d3, there is none of that. You just have inferno to beat but there is really nothing to motivate you to do it, combine that with god awful item design and overall loot drop system and you really start having second thoughts. You mention, why would anyone level all the way to 99? Well, you don't have to go all the way up there but it's nice to have something else to look for after you've beaten the game, don't you think?
2) So now, instead of potion spam we have people either chain-ressing each other or just kiting elites to the checkpoint where you can res and get back in the fight immediatly. There is really nothing wrong with potion spam, because it replaces skills that give u regen or healing skills. And now you have more options: Either go with no-regen items and just chug the potions or get some regen and use that as your crutch or just put some defensive healing/lifegaining skills on your bar. Besides, the potions in d3 don't even heal 50% of your hp, in some cases that don't even heal 25%.
3) Bosses drop nothing useful if you don't have valor stacks. So now you HAVE to go out there and kill 5 elite packs before you get to do your boss. It feels like a chore not like a game. If bosses dropped good loot but then elite packs would make that loot even better, yeah I can see how people would go out of their way to hunt down mobs. And besides, what's wrong with killing the same boss over and over? Gaming is very repetitive, in starcraft you have your openings and builds that you refine and you do them over and over again... Why can't I find a way to kill diablo fast and just do that? They have these random events in the world, well how about spawning some rare bosses during those events that drop cool loot. That would encourage players to go out there and do them.
4) There is nothing wrong with rmah, I agree on this one. In d2 you could go online and buy items, no problem. rmah is just an easier ans safer way of doing so. The only problem with rmah in d3, and it's not so much the AH itself but it's that bland, uninspired, boring itemisation in the game. No item feels unique. And partially the reason for that is the whole stats-on-items system that they have gone with. That's for another discussion though
Seems like you don't understand.
1) PvP is scheduled to come out in a later patch, and they'll balance it then. PvE is their first priority. Inferno was designed to be an optional difficulty level, for players who completed the game on hell and reached level 60 and "want something more". If you think the item design of D3 is god-awful, think about the design of D2. Not much better, in fact much more terrible.
2) Have fun chain-ressing with the increased repair costs. It was an unintended exploit, and thus it got nerfed. Potion spam is just plain retarded. Now, you actually have to play cautiously and carefully consider potion usage instead of facetanking everything. Although I will agree that a higher level potion should exist, and maybe the cooldown should be reduced to 15-20s.
3) Blizzard specifically didn't want people to do endless boss runs. That's why in patch 1.03, it's equally profitable to kill a boss or an elite, although some bosses are easier to kill because their mechanics are predictable and they don't have crazy affixes.
4) AH and RMAH is good in the sense that item trading is incorporated within the game, and you don't have to visit shady websites. I don't see why you're complaining about "no item feels unique" when D2 was a total fail in that regard.
Thank you for some support MyBattleship. He clearly doesn't get it, that's fine. All i want to say that this is hack and slash game, not hack run run run run slash game. I feel like playing wow despite i have never tried it.
Inferno being a bonus for people that finished the game on HELL - you have to be kidding me, right? Until inferno the game is a tutorial to try out what skill choices you have and the real game starts on inferno. Unfortunately it also ends right where it started, because you have already reached max. level.
Stop making up bullshit about WoW, then. I have a subscription to it from day 1 of release and current D3 doesn't play like WoW at all. In fact, it's not even remotely close. You guys sound like a bunch of teenagers just hating on the cool thing to hate without really knowing anything about it.
On June 21 2012 23:42 Ricjames wrote: BTW all they needed to do are the following:
1) redefine difficulty levels and make max. char level 99 2) remove freakin cooldown from potions and make potions expensive 3) make bosses drop better loot and make them twice as hard 4) optional but not possible - remove RMAH
Then we would have Diablo game instead of some crappy wow hybrid.
1) Lvl 60 is much better, no unfair level advantage in pvp (well maybe not ''unfair'', but who really takes the time to lvl to 99 or even close to that?).
2) Much better with cool down, so you can't just smash the lol full hp button everytime you got yourself in a hard spot.
3) They obviously don't want people to kill 1 boss, leave game and make the next 1.
4) What's wrong with rmah? Personally i stopped using paypal long ago for obvious reasons, but i can still use it as a better ingame currency than gold and perhaps buy some blizz games with it (hopefully hots).
There are a few things you clearly don't understand here. And in diablo2 they were resolved, maybe the developers got lucky or maybe they planned it from the start but here's the deal:
1) Let me just say right away, there is no pvp in d3 so your point is already invalid but for the sake of it. Previous instalments had pvp but it was never the focus of the game. You could declare hostility versus a players above lvl 9, so it was never balanced. And blizzard said, they don't want to balance pvp so, what's the point here exactly? On top of that, the main reason why lvl 60 is horrible is because once you're at max level, you have nothing else to do. You can only try and beat the game on hardest difficulty. Okay. You can farm for gear... but why would you? In diablo 2, if you played without rushing, there is no way you could have reached 99 by the end of Hell, specifically in vanilla d2. So in the end you still had some levels ahead of you that you would just get by farming gear. Those levels gave you more stat points and more skill points and you had some higher level gear that you couldn't equip yet until you leveled up. In d3, there is none of that. You just have inferno to beat but there is really nothing to motivate you to do it, combine that with god awful item design and overall loot drop system and you really start having second thoughts. You mention, why would anyone level all the way to 99? Well, you don't have to go all the way up there but it's nice to have something else to look for after you've beaten the game, don't you think?
2) So now, instead of potion spam we have people either chain-ressing each other or just kiting elites to the checkpoint where you can res and get back in the fight immediatly. There is really nothing wrong with potion spam, because it replaces skills that give u regen or healing skills. And now you have more options: Either go with no-regen items and just chug the potions or get some regen and use that as your crutch or just put some defensive healing/lifegaining skills on your bar. Besides, the potions in d3 don't even heal 50% of your hp, in some cases that don't even heal 25%.
3) Bosses drop nothing useful if you don't have valor stacks. So now you HAVE to go out there and kill 5 elite packs before you get to do your boss. It feels like a chore not like a game. If bosses dropped good loot but then elite packs would make that loot even better, yeah I can see how people would go out of their way to hunt down mobs. And besides, what's wrong with killing the same boss over and over? Gaming is very repetitive, in starcraft you have your openings and builds that you refine and you do them over and over again... Why can't I find a way to kill diablo fast and just do that? They have these random events in the world, well how about spawning some rare bosses during those events that drop cool loot. That would encourage players to go out there and do them.
4) There is nothing wrong with rmah, I agree on this one. In d2 you could go online and buy items, no problem. rmah is just an easier ans safer way of doing so. The only problem with rmah in d3, and it's not so much the AH itself but it's that bland, uninspired, boring itemisation in the game. No item feels unique. And partially the reason for that is the whole stats-on-items system that they have gone with. That's for another discussion though
Seems like you don't understand.
1) PvP is scheduled to come out in a later patch, and they'll balance it then. PvE is their first priority. Inferno was designed to be an optional difficulty level, for players who completed the game on hell and reached level 60 and "want something more". If you think the item design of D3 is god-awful, think about the design of D2. Not much better, in fact much more terrible.
2) Have fun chain-ressing with the increased repair costs. It was an unintended exploit, and thus it got nerfed. Potion spam is just plain retarded. Now, you actually have to play cautiously and carefully consider potion usage instead of facetanking everything. Although I will agree that a higher level potion should exist, and maybe the cooldown should be reduced to 15-20s.
3) Blizzard specifically didn't want people to do endless boss runs. That's why in patch 1.03, it's equally profitable to kill a boss or an elite, although some bosses are easier to kill because their mechanics are predictable and they don't have crazy affixes.
4) AH and RMAH is good in the sense that item trading is incorporated within the game, and you don't have to visit shady websites. I don't see why you're complaining about "no item feels unique" when D2 was a total fail in that regard.
Thank you for some support MyBattleship. He clearly doesn't get it, that's fine. All i want to say that this is hack and slash game, not hack run run run run slash game. I feel like playing wow despite i have never tried it.
Inferno being a bonus for people that finished the game on HELL - you have to be kidding me, right? Until inferno the game is a tutorial to try out what skill choices you have and the real game starts on inferno. Unfortunately it also ends right where it started, because you have already reached max. level.
Stop making up bullshit about WoW, then. I have a subscription to it from day 1 of release and current D3 doesn't play like WoW at all. In fact, it's not even remotely close. You guys sound like a bunch of teenagers just hating on the cool thing to hate without really knowing anything about it.
I have played WoW for a long time and while I can confirm that WoW and d3 play differently there are some obvious similarities ranging from minor details to the philosophy behind certain decisions.
A couple examples of minor details: - You can't just save & exit, unless you're in town. You have to wait for about 10 seconds before your game ends. In d2 you could save and exit anywhere in the world. Is this a big issue? Probably not, but it's what world of warcraft uses as a model. - You can't really put another skill on your skillbar midcombat or out there in the wilderness. In WoW you have to talk to your trainer to respec your character. You can only find trainers in town. In d3 you dont have to talk anyone but if you want your skills instantly available to u, you have to go to town. In d2 you could just hotkey a skill anywhere anytime. Obviously in d2 you couldn't completely change your skills (until very recently) but if you had all the skills available to you, you could hotkey them or swap them out anytime. - potions usage is exactly the same as in world of warcraft. Potions don't heal for a lot and they have a cooldown. Nothing like it was in d2. Again, is this a big issue? Maybe not, but did we really have to change it? I don't know.
As far as some of the design decisions go: - in WoW, you don't really have a boss that you can just go and farm over and over again (yes it's an MMO with a reset timer I know). What I'm getting at here is, in Wow, unless you had a instance where there is just one boss and nothing else, you would have to go and clear trash up to the boss, possibly kill some minor bosses before getting to that last boss you want to kill for some good loot. In d3 you HAVE to go out and get valor stacks before killing a boss because otherwise he doesn't drop anything useful. Obviously it's not identical, but there are threads running through both of these designs, the goal here is to give people that 30min-1hour time (d3) and 1hour-3hours (wow) time frame to work within. A siegebreaker run on my mage takes about 20 to 30 minutes (solo). And my azmodan runs took me about 30 to 40 minutes (in group of 3 or 4). On inferno obviously. - level cap. I'm not referring to level 60 cap directly, I'm just saying that the real endgame (best loot, hardest encounters) start at max level cap. But why? Why can't we level in inferno? There is nothing to look forward to, because we have already killed all the bosses 3 times by this point. We have all the skills. You can say the gear is what drives you and also the desire to complete the game. However, the gear problem is there. lvl 60 gear has item levels and they reflect it's quality. So if you have a lvl 60 500dps bow it's useless because there is a lvl 60 1000 dps bow. If that 1000dps bow required your character to be level 65, that's a different story. - item progression: Like I mentioned in my previous point. item level reflects the quality of the item so unless an item has some specific properties, unique properties, you're just looking to upgrade the item level. Bracers with 50 int and lvl requirment 60 will get replaced by bracers that give you 100 int and require that same lvl 60. But what if the bracers with 50 int had some cool additional stat to go with them? D3 has a few, but only very few items like this. Lacuni prawlers (bracers) gave you attack speed and movement speed, regular rare bracers don'tspawn with these properties so you have a choice there. But there needs to be more of these items, especially on the weapons front.
these are just a few points. There are obviously more but I think the ones I mentioned are pretty obvious. And I want to emphasize that I dont hate d3, I have close to 250 hours played on 3 different characters, 2 of which I have cleared inferno with. I've stopped playing and the main reason for that is there is nothing to do in inferno.
On June 21 2012 23:42 Ricjames wrote: BTW all they needed to do are the following:
1) redefine difficulty levels and make max. char level 99 2) remove freakin cooldown from potions and make potions expensive 3) make bosses drop better loot and make them twice as hard 4) optional but not possible - remove RMAH
Then we would have Diablo game instead of some crappy wow hybrid.
1) Lvl 60 is much better, no unfair level advantage in pvp (well maybe not ''unfair'', but who really takes the time to lvl to 99 or even close to that?).
2) Much better with cool down, so you can't just smash the lol full hp button everytime you got yourself in a hard spot.
3) They obviously don't want people to kill 1 boss, leave game and make the next 1.
4) What's wrong with rmah? Personally i stopped using paypal long ago for obvious reasons, but i can still use it as a better ingame currency than gold and perhaps buy some blizz games with it (hopefully hots).
There are a few things you clearly don't understand here. And in diablo2 they were resolved, maybe the developers got lucky or maybe they planned it from the start but here's the deal:
1) Let me just say right away, there is no pvp in d3 so your point is already invalid but for the sake of it. Previous instalments had pvp but it was never the focus of the game. You could declare hostility versus a players above lvl 9, so it was never balanced. And blizzard said, they don't want to balance pvp so, what's the point here exactly? On top of that, the main reason why lvl 60 is horrible is because once you're at max level, you have nothing else to do. You can only try and beat the game on hardest difficulty. Okay. You can farm for gear... but why would you? In diablo 2, if you played without rushing, there is no way you could have reached 99 by the end of Hell, specifically in vanilla d2. So in the end you still had some levels ahead of you that you would just get by farming gear. Those levels gave you more stat points and more skill points and you had some higher level gear that you couldn't equip yet until you leveled up. In d3, there is none of that. You just have inferno to beat but there is really nothing to motivate you to do it, combine that with god awful item design and overall loot drop system and you really start having second thoughts. You mention, why would anyone level all the way to 99? Well, you don't have to go all the way up there but it's nice to have something else to look for after you've beaten the game, don't you think?
2) So now, instead of potion spam we have people either chain-ressing each other or just kiting elites to the checkpoint where you can res and get back in the fight immediatly. There is really nothing wrong with potion spam, because it replaces skills that give u regen or healing skills. And now you have more options: Either go with no-regen items and just chug the potions or get some regen and use that as your crutch or just put some defensive healing/lifegaining skills on your bar. Besides, the potions in d3 don't even heal 50% of your hp, in some cases that don't even heal 25%.
3) Bosses drop nothing useful if you don't have valor stacks. So now you HAVE to go out there and kill 5 elite packs before you get to do your boss. It feels like a chore not like a game. If bosses dropped good loot but then elite packs would make that loot even better, yeah I can see how people would go out of their way to hunt down mobs. And besides, what's wrong with killing the same boss over and over? Gaming is very repetitive, in starcraft you have your openings and builds that you refine and you do them over and over again... Why can't I find a way to kill diablo fast and just do that? They have these random events in the world, well how about spawning some rare bosses during those events that drop cool loot. That would encourage players to go out there and do them.
4) There is nothing wrong with rmah, I agree on this one. In d2 you could go online and buy items, no problem. rmah is just an easier ans safer way of doing so. The only problem with rmah in d3, and it's not so much the AH itself but it's that bland, uninspired, boring itemisation in the game. No item feels unique. And partially the reason for that is the whole stats-on-items system that they have gone with. That's for another discussion though
Seems like you don't understand.
1) PvP is scheduled to come out in a later patch, and they'll balance it then. PvE is their first priority. Inferno was designed to be an optional difficulty level, for players who completed the game on hell and reached level 60 and "want something more". If you think the item design of D3 is god-awful, think about the design of D2. Not much better, in fact much more terrible.
2) Have fun chain-ressing with the increased repair costs. It was an unintended exploit, and thus it got nerfed. Potion spam is just plain retarded. Now, you actually have to play cautiously and carefully consider potion usage instead of facetanking everything. Although I will agree that a higher level potion should exist, and maybe the cooldown should be reduced to 15-20s.
3) Blizzard specifically didn't want people to do endless boss runs. That's why in patch 1.03, it's equally profitable to kill a boss or an elite, although some bosses are easier to kill because their mechanics are predictable and they don't have crazy affixes.
4) AH and RMAH is good in the sense that item trading is incorporated within the game, and you don't have to visit shady websites. I don't see why you're complaining about "no item feels unique" when D2 was a total fail in that regard.
Thank you for some support MyBattleship. He clearly doesn't get it, that's fine. All i want to say that this is hack and slash game, not hack run run run run slash game. I feel like playing wow despite i have never tried it.
Inferno being a bonus for people that finished the game on HELL - you have to be kidding me, right? Until inferno the game is a tutorial to try out what skill choices you have and the real game starts on inferno. Unfortunately it also ends right where it started, because you have already reached max. level.
Stop making up bullshit about WoW, then. I have a subscription to it from day 1 of release and current D3 doesn't play like WoW at all. In fact, it's not even remotely close. You guys sound like a bunch of teenagers just hating on the cool thing to hate without really knowing anything about it.
On June 21 2012 23:42 Ricjames wrote: BTW all they needed to do are the following:
1) redefine difficulty levels and make max. char level 99 2) remove freakin cooldown from potions and make potions expensive 3) make bosses drop better loot and make them twice as hard 4) optional but not possible - remove RMAH
Then we would have Diablo game instead of some crappy wow hybrid.
1) Lvl 60 is much better, no unfair level advantage in pvp (well maybe not ''unfair'', but who really takes the time to lvl to 99 or even close to that?).
2) Much better with cool down, so you can't just smash the lol full hp button everytime you got yourself in a hard spot.
3) They obviously don't want people to kill 1 boss, leave game and make the next 1.
4) What's wrong with rmah? Personally i stopped using paypal long ago for obvious reasons, but i can still use it as a better ingame currency than gold and perhaps buy some blizz games with it (hopefully hots).
There are a few things you clearly don't understand here. And in diablo2 they were resolved, maybe the developers got lucky or maybe they planned it from the start but here's the deal:
1) Let me just say right away, there is no pvp in d3 so your point is already invalid but for the sake of it. Previous instalments had pvp but it was never the focus of the game. You could declare hostility versus a players above lvl 9, so it was never balanced. And blizzard said, they don't want to balance pvp so, what's the point here exactly? On top of that, the main reason why lvl 60 is horrible is because once you're at max level, you have nothing else to do. You can only try and beat the game on hardest difficulty. Okay. You can farm for gear... but why would you? In diablo 2, if you played without rushing, there is no way you could have reached 99 by the end of Hell, specifically in vanilla d2. So in the end you still had some levels ahead of you that you would just get by farming gear. Those levels gave you more stat points and more skill points and you had some higher level gear that you couldn't equip yet until you leveled up. In d3, there is none of that. You just have inferno to beat but there is really nothing to motivate you to do it, combine that with god awful item design and overall loot drop system and you really start having second thoughts. You mention, why would anyone level all the way to 99? Well, you don't have to go all the way up there but it's nice to have something else to look for after you've beaten the game, don't you think?
2) So now, instead of potion spam we have people either chain-ressing each other or just kiting elites to the checkpoint where you can res and get back in the fight immediatly. There is really nothing wrong with potion spam, because it replaces skills that give u regen or healing skills. And now you have more options: Either go with no-regen items and just chug the potions or get some regen and use that as your crutch or just put some defensive healing/lifegaining skills on your bar. Besides, the potions in d3 don't even heal 50% of your hp, in some cases that don't even heal 25%.
3) Bosses drop nothing useful if you don't have valor stacks. So now you HAVE to go out there and kill 5 elite packs before you get to do your boss. It feels like a chore not like a game. If bosses dropped good loot but then elite packs would make that loot even better, yeah I can see how people would go out of their way to hunt down mobs. And besides, what's wrong with killing the same boss over and over? Gaming is very repetitive, in starcraft you have your openings and builds that you refine and you do them over and over again... Why can't I find a way to kill diablo fast and just do that? They have these random events in the world, well how about spawning some rare bosses during those events that drop cool loot. That would encourage players to go out there and do them.
4) There is nothing wrong with rmah, I agree on this one. In d2 you could go online and buy items, no problem. rmah is just an easier ans safer way of doing so. The only problem with rmah in d3, and it's not so much the AH itself but it's that bland, uninspired, boring itemisation in the game. No item feels unique. And partially the reason for that is the whole stats-on-items system that they have gone with. That's for another discussion though
Seems like you don't understand.
1) PvP is scheduled to come out in a later patch, and they'll balance it then. PvE is their first priority. Inferno was designed to be an optional difficulty level, for players who completed the game on hell and reached level 60 and "want something more". If you think the item design of D3 is god-awful, think about the design of D2. Not much better, in fact much more terrible.
2) Have fun chain-ressing with the increased repair costs. It was an unintended exploit, and thus it got nerfed. Potion spam is just plain retarded. Now, you actually have to play cautiously and carefully consider potion usage instead of facetanking everything. Although I will agree that a higher level potion should exist, and maybe the cooldown should be reduced to 15-20s.
3) Blizzard specifically didn't want people to do endless boss runs. That's why in patch 1.03, it's equally profitable to kill a boss or an elite, although some bosses are easier to kill because their mechanics are predictable and they don't have crazy affixes.
4) AH and RMAH is good in the sense that item trading is incorporated within the game, and you don't have to visit shady websites. I don't see why you're complaining about "no item feels unique" when D2 was a total fail in that regard.
Thank you for some support MyBattleship. He clearly doesn't get it, that's fine. All i want to say that this is hack and slash game, not hack run run run run slash game. I feel like playing wow despite i have never tried it.
Inferno being a bonus for people that finished the game on HELL - you have to be kidding me, right? Until inferno the game is a tutorial to try out what skill choices you have and the real game starts on inferno. Unfortunately it also ends right where it started, because you have already reached max. level.
Stop making up bullshit about WoW, then. I have a subscription to it from day 1 of release and current D3 doesn't play like WoW at all. In fact, it's not even remotely close. You guys sound like a bunch of teenagers just hating on the cool thing to hate without really knowing anything about it.
I have played WoW for a long time and while I can confirm that WoW and d3 play differently there are some obvious similarities ranging from minor details to the philosophy behind certain decisions.
A couple examples of minor details: - You can't just save & exit, unless you're in town. You have to wait for about 10 seconds before your game ends. In d2 you could save and exit anywhere in the world. Is this a big issue? Probably not, but it's what world of warcraft uses as a model. - You can't really put another skill on your skillbar midcombat or out there in the wilderness. In WoW you have to talk to your trainer to respec your character. You can only find trainers in town. In d3 you dont have to talk anyone but if you want your skills instantly available to u, you have to go to town. In d2 you could just hotkey a skill anywhere anytime. Obviously in d2 you couldn't completely change your skills (until very recently) but if you had all the skills available to you, you could hotkey them or swap them out anytime. - potions usage is exactly the same as in world of warcraft. Potions don't heal for a lot and they have a cooldown. Nothing like it was in d2. Again, is this a big issue? Maybe not, but did we really have to change it? I don't know.
As far as some of the design decisions go: - in WoW, you don't really have a boss that you can just go and farm over and over again (yes it's an MMO with a reset timer I know). What I'm getting at here is, in Wow, unless you had a instance where there is just one boss and nothing else, you would have to go and clear trash up to the boss, possibly kill some minor bosses before getting to that last boss you want to kill for some good loot. In d3 you HAVE to go out and get valor stacks before killing a boss because otherwise he doesn't drop anything useful. Obviously it's not identical, but there are threads running through both of these designs, the goal here is to give people that 30min-1hour time (d3) and 1hour-3hours (wow) time frame to work within. A siegebreaker run on my mage takes about 20 to 30 minutes (solo). And my azmodan runs took me about 30 to 40 minutes (in group of 3 or 4). On inferno obviously. - level cap. I'm not referring to level 60 cap directly, I'm just saying that the real endgame (best loot, hardest encounters) start at max level cap. But why? Why can't we level in inferno? There is nothing to look forward to, because we have already killed all the bosses 3 times by this point. We have all the skills. You can say the gear is what drives you and also the desire to complete the game. However, the gear problem is there. lvl 60 gear has item levels and they reflect it's quality. So if you have a lvl 60 500dps bow it's useless because there is a lvl 60 1000 dps bow. If that 1000dps bow required your character to be level 65, that's a different story. - item progression: Like I mentioned in my previous point. item level reflects the quality of the item so unless an item has some specific properties, unique properties, you're just looking to upgrade the item level. Bracers with 50 int and lvl requirment 60 will get replaced by bracers that give you 100 int and require that same lvl 60. But what if the bracers with 50 int had some cool additional stat to go with them? D3 has a few, but only very few items like this. Lacuni prawlers (bracers) gave you attack speed and movement speed, regular rare bracers don'tspawn with these properties so you have a choice there. But there needs to be more of these items, especially on the weapons front.
these are just a few points. There are obviously more but I think the ones I mentioned are pretty obvious. And I want to emphasize that I dont hate d3, I have close to 250 hours played on 3 different characters, 2 of which I have cleared inferno with. I've stopped playing and the main reason for that is there is nothing to do in inferno.
Not to mention that the combat mechanics, target aquisition, monster AI, world persistence, character controls and numerous other things are completely different.
what is really your point of posting this dated article over and over again? inferno has changed quite a bit from Jay Wilson's original projection. I mean, it's already seen major nerfs in difficulty and farmability (made up word, what's up!)
what is really your point of posting this dated article over and over again? inferno has changed quite a bit from Jay Wilson's original projection. I mean, it's already seen major nerfs in difficulty and farmability (made up word, what's up!)
Because they're arguing about why you don't gain levels in Inferno. Some people would rather think up grand elaborate conspiracy theories instead of simple fact checking. I refuted a point, and showed evidence to back up my claims.
On June 21 2012 23:42 Ricjames wrote: BTW all they needed to do are the following:
1) redefine difficulty levels and make max. char level 99 2) remove freakin cooldown from potions and make potions expensive 3) make bosses drop better loot and make them twice as hard 4) optional but not possible - remove RMAH
Then we would have Diablo game instead of some crappy wow hybrid.
1) Lvl 60 is much better, no unfair level advantage in pvp (well maybe not ''unfair'', but who really takes the time to lvl to 99 or even close to that?).
2) Much better with cool down, so you can't just smash the lol full hp button everytime you got yourself in a hard spot.
3) They obviously don't want people to kill 1 boss, leave game and make the next 1.
4) What's wrong with rmah? Personally i stopped using paypal long ago for obvious reasons, but i can still use it as a better ingame currency than gold and perhaps buy some blizz games with it (hopefully hots).
There are a few things you clearly don't understand here. And in diablo2 they were resolved, maybe the developers got lucky or maybe they planned it from the start but here's the deal:
1) Let me just say right away, there is no pvp in d3 so your point is already invalid but for the sake of it. Previous instalments had pvp but it was never the focus of the game. You could declare hostility versus a players above lvl 9, so it was never balanced. And blizzard said, they don't want to balance pvp so, what's the point here exactly? On top of that, the main reason why lvl 60 is horrible is because once you're at max level, you have nothing else to do. You can only try and beat the game on hardest difficulty. Okay. You can farm for gear... but why would you? In diablo 2, if you played without rushing, there is no way you could have reached 99 by the end of Hell, specifically in vanilla d2. So in the end you still had some levels ahead of you that you would just get by farming gear. Those levels gave you more stat points and more skill points and you had some higher level gear that you couldn't equip yet until you leveled up. In d3, there is none of that. You just have inferno to beat but there is really nothing to motivate you to do it, combine that with god awful item design and overall loot drop system and you really start having second thoughts. You mention, why would anyone level all the way to 99? Well, you don't have to go all the way up there but it's nice to have something else to look for after you've beaten the game, don't you think?
2) So now, instead of potion spam we have people either chain-ressing each other or just kiting elites to the checkpoint where you can res and get back in the fight immediatly. There is really nothing wrong with potion spam, because it replaces skills that give u regen or healing skills. And now you have more options: Either go with no-regen items and just chug the potions or get some regen and use that as your crutch or just put some defensive healing/lifegaining skills on your bar. Besides, the potions in d3 don't even heal 50% of your hp, in some cases that don't even heal 25%.
3) Bosses drop nothing useful if you don't have valor stacks. So now you HAVE to go out there and kill 5 elite packs before you get to do your boss. It feels like a chore not like a game. If bosses dropped good loot but then elite packs would make that loot even better, yeah I can see how people would go out of their way to hunt down mobs. And besides, what's wrong with killing the same boss over and over? Gaming is very repetitive, in starcraft you have your openings and builds that you refine and you do them over and over again... Why can't I find a way to kill diablo fast and just do that? They have these random events in the world, well how about spawning some rare bosses during those events that drop cool loot. That would encourage players to go out there and do them.
4) There is nothing wrong with rmah, I agree on this one. In d2 you could go online and buy items, no problem. rmah is just an easier ans safer way of doing so. The only problem with rmah in d3, and it's not so much the AH itself but it's that bland, uninspired, boring itemisation in the game. No item feels unique. And partially the reason for that is the whole stats-on-items system that they have gone with. That's for another discussion though
Seems like you don't understand.
1) PvP is scheduled to come out in a later patch, and they'll balance it then. PvE is their first priority. Inferno was designed to be an optional difficulty level, for players who completed the game on hell and reached level 60 and "want something more". If you think the item design of D3 is god-awful, think about the design of D2. Not much better, in fact much more terrible.
2) Have fun chain-ressing with the increased repair costs. It was an unintended exploit, and thus it got nerfed. Potion spam is just plain retarded. Now, you actually have to play cautiously and carefully consider potion usage instead of facetanking everything. Although I will agree that a higher level potion should exist, and maybe the cooldown should be reduced to 15-20s.
3) Blizzard specifically didn't want people to do endless boss runs. That's why in patch 1.03, it's equally profitable to kill a boss or an elite, although some bosses are easier to kill because their mechanics are predictable and they don't have crazy affixes.
4) AH and RMAH is good in the sense that item trading is incorporated within the game, and you don't have to visit shady websites. I don't see why you're complaining about "no item feels unique" when D2 was a total fail in that regard.
Thank you for some support MyBattleship. He clearly doesn't get it, that's fine. All i want to say that this is hack and slash game, not hack run run run run slash game. I feel like playing wow despite i have never tried it.
Inferno being a bonus for people that finished the game on HELL - you have to be kidding me, right? Until inferno the game is a tutorial to try out what skill choices you have and the real game starts on inferno. Unfortunately it also ends right where it started, because you have already reached max. level.
Stop making up bullshit about WoW, then. I have a subscription to it from day 1 of release and current D3 doesn't play like WoW at all. In fact, it's not even remotely close. You guys sound like a bunch of teenagers just hating on the cool thing to hate without really knowing anything about it.
On June 22 2012 01:48 andrewlt wrote:
On June 22 2012 01:00 Ricjames wrote:
On June 22 2012 00:43 Heh_ wrote:
On June 22 2012 00:32 myBattleship wrote:
On June 21 2012 23:48 Technique wrote:
On June 21 2012 23:42 Ricjames wrote: BTW all they needed to do are the following:
1) redefine difficulty levels and make max. char level 99 2) remove freakin cooldown from potions and make potions expensive 3) make bosses drop better loot and make them twice as hard 4) optional but not possible - remove RMAH
Then we would have Diablo game instead of some crappy wow hybrid.
1) Lvl 60 is much better, no unfair level advantage in pvp (well maybe not ''unfair'', but who really takes the time to lvl to 99 or even close to that?).
2) Much better with cool down, so you can't just smash the lol full hp button everytime you got yourself in a hard spot.
3) They obviously don't want people to kill 1 boss, leave game and make the next 1.
4) What's wrong with rmah? Personally i stopped using paypal long ago for obvious reasons, but i can still use it as a better ingame currency than gold and perhaps buy some blizz games with it (hopefully hots).
There are a few things you clearly don't understand here. And in diablo2 they were resolved, maybe the developers got lucky or maybe they planned it from the start but here's the deal:
1) Let me just say right away, there is no pvp in d3 so your point is already invalid but for the sake of it. Previous instalments had pvp but it was never the focus of the game. You could declare hostility versus a players above lvl 9, so it was never balanced. And blizzard said, they don't want to balance pvp so, what's the point here exactly? On top of that, the main reason why lvl 60 is horrible is because once you're at max level, you have nothing else to do. You can only try and beat the game on hardest difficulty. Okay. You can farm for gear... but why would you? In diablo 2, if you played without rushing, there is no way you could have reached 99 by the end of Hell, specifically in vanilla d2. So in the end you still had some levels ahead of you that you would just get by farming gear. Those levels gave you more stat points and more skill points and you had some higher level gear that you couldn't equip yet until you leveled up. In d3, there is none of that. You just have inferno to beat but there is really nothing to motivate you to do it, combine that with god awful item design and overall loot drop system and you really start having second thoughts. You mention, why would anyone level all the way to 99? Well, you don't have to go all the way up there but it's nice to have something else to look for after you've beaten the game, don't you think?
2) So now, instead of potion spam we have people either chain-ressing each other or just kiting elites to the checkpoint where you can res and get back in the fight immediatly. There is really nothing wrong with potion spam, because it replaces skills that give u regen or healing skills. And now you have more options: Either go with no-regen items and just chug the potions or get some regen and use that as your crutch or just put some defensive healing/lifegaining skills on your bar. Besides, the potions in d3 don't even heal 50% of your hp, in some cases that don't even heal 25%.
3) Bosses drop nothing useful if you don't have valor stacks. So now you HAVE to go out there and kill 5 elite packs before you get to do your boss. It feels like a chore not like a game. If bosses dropped good loot but then elite packs would make that loot even better, yeah I can see how people would go out of their way to hunt down mobs. And besides, what's wrong with killing the same boss over and over? Gaming is very repetitive, in starcraft you have your openings and builds that you refine and you do them over and over again... Why can't I find a way to kill diablo fast and just do that? They have these random events in the world, well how about spawning some rare bosses during those events that drop cool loot. That would encourage players to go out there and do them.
4) There is nothing wrong with rmah, I agree on this one. In d2 you could go online and buy items, no problem. rmah is just an easier ans safer way of doing so. The only problem with rmah in d3, and it's not so much the AH itself but it's that bland, uninspired, boring itemisation in the game. No item feels unique. And partially the reason for that is the whole stats-on-items system that they have gone with. That's for another discussion though
Seems like you don't understand.
1) PvP is scheduled to come out in a later patch, and they'll balance it then. PvE is their first priority. Inferno was designed to be an optional difficulty level, for players who completed the game on hell and reached level 60 and "want something more". If you think the item design of D3 is god-awful, think about the design of D2. Not much better, in fact much more terrible.
2) Have fun chain-ressing with the increased repair costs. It was an unintended exploit, and thus it got nerfed. Potion spam is just plain retarded. Now, you actually have to play cautiously and carefully consider potion usage instead of facetanking everything. Although I will agree that a higher level potion should exist, and maybe the cooldown should be reduced to 15-20s.
3) Blizzard specifically didn't want people to do endless boss runs. That's why in patch 1.03, it's equally profitable to kill a boss or an elite, although some bosses are easier to kill because their mechanics are predictable and they don't have crazy affixes.
4) AH and RMAH is good in the sense that item trading is incorporated within the game, and you don't have to visit shady websites. I don't see why you're complaining about "no item feels unique" when D2 was a total fail in that regard.
Thank you for some support MyBattleship. He clearly doesn't get it, that's fine. All i want to say that this is hack and slash game, not hack run run run run slash game. I feel like playing wow despite i have never tried it.
Inferno being a bonus for people that finished the game on HELL - you have to be kidding me, right? Until inferno the game is a tutorial to try out what skill choices you have and the real game starts on inferno. Unfortunately it also ends right where it started, because you have already reached max. level.
Stop making up bullshit about WoW, then. I have a subscription to it from day 1 of release and current D3 doesn't play like WoW at all. In fact, it's not even remotely close. You guys sound like a bunch of teenagers just hating on the cool thing to hate without really knowing anything about it.
I have played WoW for a long time and while I can confirm that WoW and d3 play differently there are some obvious similarities ranging from minor details to the philosophy behind certain decisions.
A couple examples of minor details: - You can't just save & exit, unless you're in town. You have to wait for about 10 seconds before your game ends. In d2 you could save and exit anywhere in the world. Is this a big issue? Probably not, but it's what world of warcraft uses as a model. - You can't really put another skill on your skillbar midcombat or out there in the wilderness. In WoW you have to talk to your trainer to respec your character. You can only find trainers in town. In d3 you dont have to talk anyone but if you want your skills instantly available to u, you have to go to town. In d2 you could just hotkey a skill anywhere anytime. Obviously in d2 you couldn't completely change your skills (until very recently) but if you had all the skills available to you, you could hotkey them or swap them out anytime. - potions usage is exactly the same as in world of warcraft. Potions don't heal for a lot and they have a cooldown. Nothing like it was in d2. Again, is this a big issue? Maybe not, but did we really have to change it? I don't know.
As far as some of the design decisions go: - in WoW, you don't really have a boss that you can just go and farm over and over again (yes it's an MMO with a reset timer I know). What I'm getting at here is, in Wow, unless you had a instance where there is just one boss and nothing else, you would have to go and clear trash up to the boss, possibly kill some minor bosses before getting to that last boss you want to kill for some good loot. In d3 you HAVE to go out and get valor stacks before killing a boss because otherwise he doesn't drop anything useful. Obviously it's not identical, but there are threads running through both of these designs, the goal here is to give people that 30min-1hour time (d3) and 1hour-3hours (wow) time frame to work within. A siegebreaker run on my mage takes about 20 to 30 minutes (solo). And my azmodan runs took me about 30 to 40 minutes (in group of 3 or 4). On inferno obviously. - level cap. I'm not referring to level 60 cap directly, I'm just saying that the real endgame (best loot, hardest encounters) start at max level cap. But why? Why can't we level in inferno? There is nothing to look forward to, because we have already killed all the bosses 3 times by this point. We have all the skills. You can say the gear is what drives you and also the desire to complete the game. However, the gear problem is there. lvl 60 gear has item levels and they reflect it's quality. So if you have a lvl 60 500dps bow it's useless because there is a lvl 60 1000 dps bow. If that 1000dps bow required your character to be level 65, that's a different story. - item progression: Like I mentioned in my previous point. item level reflects the quality of the item so unless an item has some specific properties, unique properties, you're just looking to upgrade the item level. Bracers with 50 int and lvl requirment 60 will get replaced by bracers that give you 100 int and require that same lvl 60. But what if the bracers with 50 int had some cool additional stat to go with them? D3 has a few, but only very few items like this. Lacuni prawlers (bracers) gave you attack speed and movement speed, regular rare bracers don'tspawn with these properties so you have a choice there. But there needs to be more of these items, especially on the weapons front.
these are just a few points. There are obviously more but I think the ones I mentioned are pretty obvious. And I want to emphasize that I dont hate d3, I have close to 250 hours played on 3 different characters, 2 of which I have cleared inferno with. I've stopped playing and the main reason for that is there is nothing to do in inferno.
Not to mention that the combat mechanics, target aquisition, monster AI, world persistence, character controls and numerous other things are completely different.
Hey that's pretty cool. things you list, a lot of them were in diablo2 and they remained the same. great! But why did they borrow from WoW so many things that really had no place in a diablo game? Can you please explain to me? I don't think so. By the way, world persistence... Are you trying to tell me that a MMO is different from a single player game with multiplayer component? lol Come on now m8, please. You had to really scrape the bottom of the barrel to come up with these things.
I didnt drop a single item lv 63, from chap 6 act 1 to chap 6 act 2, droped a couple of 62 and a lot of 61, also 1 set that was previously worth like 3mi (tal rasha armor) but since ias got overnerfed it isnt worth anything, the repair cost is too damn high now, I get about even farming ... Im not even enjoying the game anymore ....
what is really your point of posting this dated article over and over again? inferno has changed quite a bit from Jay Wilson's original projection. I mean, it's already seen major nerfs in difficulty and farmability (made up word, what's up!)
Because they're arguing about why you don't gain levels in Inferno. Some people would rather think up grand elaborate conspiracy theories instead of simple fact checking. I refuted a point, and showed evidence to back up my claims.
Nobody is arguing about the absence of leveling in inferno. We are arguing about the lack of motivation/things to look forward to in inferno. It's rather pointless but none the less offers the best loot and the hardest bosses. The only 2 reasons to finish inferno. Diablo2 gave you more reasons, simple as that.
what is really your point of posting this dated article over and over again? inferno has changed quite a bit from Jay Wilson's original projection. I mean, it's already seen major nerfs in difficulty and farmability (made up word, what's up!)
Because they're arguing about why you don't gain levels in Inferno. Some people would rather think up grand elaborate conspiracy theories instead of simple fact checking. I refuted a point, and showed evidence to back up my claims.
Nobody is arguing about the absence of leveling in inferno. We are arguing about the lack of motivation/things to look forward to in inferno. It's rather pointless but none the less offers the best loot and the hardest bosses. The only 2 reasons to finish inferno. Diablo2 gave you more reasons, simple as that.
From your post, the three motivating factors are leveling, loot and bosses, of which only leveling is different from engame D2 and D3. Leveling in D2 is painfully slow at the highest levels, compounded with the fact that you lose exp upon death. How many people reached lvl99 without botting or utilizing the shadow economy? Not me, I gave up at lvl92 because it was a waste of time, better spent playing other classes.
If you want to talk about motivation, Hell D2 was incredibly demotivating. It's not fun seeing elites (sometimes normal mobs) with immunities to every kind of damage that you can dish out.
And people HAVE been arguing about leveling.
On June 21 2012 23:42 Ricjames wrote: BTW all they needed to do are the following:
1) redefine difficulty levels and make max. char level 99 2) remove freakin cooldown from potions and make potions expensive 3) make bosses drop better loot and make them twice as hard 4) optional but not possible - remove RMAH
Then we would have Diablo game instead of some crappy wow hybrid.
I think a lot of the arguments are quite clearly subjective, do you prefer X or Y? Leveling, not leveling, potions, no potions, these issues in my opinion are less important than a well organized end game farm system. Considering the entirety of the franchise and the reason it's been successful for a decade is looting, trading, selling.
I think the biggest problem (which hopefully everyone agrees with) is that itemization is really awful. The completely, 100% random rolls on loot can be doable, but completely random rolls on loot AND a total nerf to the overall drop rate of high level items is like a double whammy. It's not like runs pre-1.0.3 yielded tens or hundreds of amazing items after each day of playing. You could run Azmodan for 6 hours pre-nerf and still get 1, 2 maybe 0 viable ilvl63 items. That's fine, that's diablo. However, at least runs were efficient with time.
Being piegonholed into 1 viable farming method, searching elites, is supposed to 'enhance' the replayability, look at all the exploring and variability you have! It's a farce. It only seems like the nicer option right now because it's new. All of the acts are going to become monotonous, all of the champions are going to become easy, it's inevitable. For a lot of people, the ones that were affected the hardest by this patch, it had already become that way. Removing the efficiency of farming is what will kill this games longevity. There should be multiple ways to farm items in the endgame that are all fairly synonomous. Of course there will be that 1 optimal strategy but that doesn't mean everyone will do it. Chest and Goblin farming was gold/per time spent, more advantageous than Cydea-Azmodan but I didn't enjoy it, so I didn't do it. We don't get any options now, we have to elite search, we have to spend more timing doing runs, and we are now post-patch, less rewarded for our efforts. Time up, drops down, nerfed classes, nerfed hero power (IAS) = bad time in a farm based ACTION RPG.
what is really your point of posting this dated article over and over again? inferno has changed quite a bit from Jay Wilson's original projection. I mean, it's already seen major nerfs in difficulty and farmability (made up word, what's up!)
Because they're arguing about why you don't gain levels in Inferno. Some people would rather think up grand elaborate conspiracy theories instead of simple fact checking. I refuted a point, and showed evidence to back up my claims.
Nobody is arguing about the absence of leveling in inferno. We are arguing about the lack of motivation/things to look forward to in inferno. It's rather pointless but none the less offers the best loot and the hardest bosses. The only 2 reasons to finish inferno. Diablo2 gave you more reasons, simple as that.
From your post, the three motivating factors are leveling, loot and bosses, of which only leveling is different from engame D2 and D3. Leveling in D2 is painfully slow at the highest levels, compounded with the fact that you lose exp upon death. How many people reached lvl99 without botting or utilizing the shadow economy? Not me, I gave up at lvl92 because it was a waste of time, better spent playing other classes.
If you want to talk about motivation, Hell D2 was incredibly demotivating. It's not fun seeing elites (sometimes normal mobs) with immunities to every kind of damage that you can dish out.
On June 21 2012 23:42 Ricjames wrote: BTW all they needed to do are the following:
1) redefine difficulty levels and make max. char level 99 2) remove freakin cooldown from potions and make potions expensive 3) make bosses drop better loot and make them twice as hard 4) optional but not possible - remove RMAH
Then we would have Diablo game instead of some crappy wow hybrid.
well you have to understand that inferno is killing the same bosses for the 4th time. I doubt anyone is going "oh boy I get to kill diablo AGAIN". And the motivation to kill harder bosses is there because you know the harder the are the better loot they might drop which is true for the entire difficulty setting. inferno drops are better than hell and so on. Loot is a big player here, however loot in d3 is garbage, everyone knows that. And to get back to leveling, yeah it's sure as hell is a big motivator because you're doing it while farming. And guess what, you get skill points and stat points for leveling, which is sadly missing from d3. You said yourself that you leveled to 92, but it's still better than just being stuck at 60. There is nothing to look forward to after you've beaten the game. The items are not exciting, the leveling isnt there, and to get anything good from bosses you have to go hunting stupid elite packs.
Now let me state again, I don't want d3 to be a carbon copy of d2, no. And you're right about monsters with immunities, they were frustrating. But how about they take good stuff and keep it and fix the bad stuff, replace it with something new and shiny and also GOOD. they didn't do it in this game. Thats the whole freaking point. Most of the new stuff, just replaces old stuff thats bad, but the new stuff is just as bad if not worse. I know they took a huge risk with the simplified skill system but guess what, it didn't pay off. And I cant praise them for that.
what is really your point of posting this dated article over and over again? inferno has changed quite a bit from Jay Wilson's original projection. I mean, it's already seen major nerfs in difficulty and farmability (made up word, what's up!)
Because they're arguing about why you don't gain levels in Inferno. Some people would rather think up grand elaborate conspiracy theories instead of simple fact checking. I refuted a point, and showed evidence to back up my claims.
Nobody is arguing about the absence of leveling in inferno. We are arguing about the lack of motivation/things to look forward to in inferno. It's rather pointless but none the less offers the best loot and the hardest bosses. The only 2 reasons to finish inferno. Diablo2 gave you more reasons, simple as that.
From your post, the three motivating factors are leveling, loot and bosses, of which only leveling is different from engame D2 and D3. Leveling in D2 is painfully slow at the highest levels, compounded with the fact that you lose exp upon death. How many people reached lvl99 without botting or utilizing the shadow economy? Not me, I gave up at lvl92 because it was a waste of time, better spent playing other classes.
If you want to talk about motivation, Hell D2 was incredibly demotivating. It's not fun seeing elites (sometimes normal mobs) with immunities to every kind of damage that you can dish out.
And people HAVE been arguing about leveling.
On June 21 2012 23:42 Ricjames wrote: BTW all they needed to do are the following:
1) redefine difficulty levels and make max. char level 99 2) remove freakin cooldown from potions and make potions expensive 3) make bosses drop better loot and make them twice as hard 4) optional but not possible - remove RMAH
Then we would have Diablo game instead of some crappy wow hybrid.
well you have to understand that inferno is killing the same bosses for the 4th time. I doubt anyone is going "oh boy I get to kill diablo AGAIN". And the motivation to kill harder bosses is there because you know the harder the are the better loot they might drop which is true for the entire difficulty setting. inferno drops are better than hell and so on. Loot is a big player here, however loot in d3 is garbage, everyone knows that. And to get back to leveling, yeah it's sure as hell is a big motivator because you're doing it while farming. And guess what, you get skill points and stat points for leveling, which is sadly missing from d3. You said yourself that you leveled to 92, but it's still better than just being stuck at 60. There is nothing to look forward to after you've beaten the game. The items are not exciting, the leveling isnt there, and to get anything good from bosses you have to go hunting stupid elite packs.
Now let me state again, I don't want d3 to be a carbon copy of d2, no. And you're right about monsters with immunities, they were frustrating. But how about they take good stuff and keep it and fix the bad stuff, replace it with something new and shiny and also GOOD. they didn't do it in this game. Thats the whole freaking point. Most of the new stuff, just replaces old stuff thats bad, but the new stuff is just as bad if not worse. I know they took a huge risk with the simplified skill system but guess what, it didn't pay off. And I cant praise them for that.
Well, you kill the same things over and over again when you're farming. If killing Diablo 4 times on 4 separate difficulties isn't a person's cup of tea, then farming warden/butcher, cyd/azmodan or whatever area available ain't gonna be enjoyable. Some people like to see loot drop.
As more and more people farm the crap out of Inferno, the market becomes saturated with tons of loot. Items that were selling for millions in the first week may be selling for 2000 now (especially gloves). The loot that you once considered "good" is now crap when compared to the 10000 better copies selling for bargain basement prices. Also, with decent loot cheaply available, you're gonna be able to upgrade your gear so rapidly that finding improvements through farming ain't gonna cut it anymore.
If Blizzard made the level cap 99 (plus Inferno entry level 99), the only difference is cosmetic. You still gain stats and skills with each level, they will just distribute over more levels. Currently, you gain levels at a pretty rapid rate, at least you don't get stuck on the same level for several hours (one of the main reasons for making more levels). Btw the stat/skill system in D2 is terribad, it's good they got rid of it.
I thought Blizzard made a long post about what they didn't like about D2 and how they improved it. They've also given updates on how these changes worked out.
what is really your point of posting this dated article over and over again? inferno has changed quite a bit from Jay Wilson's original projection. I mean, it's already seen major nerfs in difficulty and farmability (made up word, what's up!)
Because they're arguing about why you don't gain levels in Inferno. Some people would rather think up grand elaborate conspiracy theories instead of simple fact checking. I refuted a point, and showed evidence to back up my claims.
Nobody is arguing about the absence of leveling in inferno. We are arguing about the lack of motivation/things to look forward to in inferno. It's rather pointless but none the less offers the best loot and the hardest bosses. The only 2 reasons to finish inferno. Diablo2 gave you more reasons, simple as that.
From your post, the three motivating factors are leveling, loot and bosses, of which only leveling is different from engame D2 and D3. Leveling in D2 is painfully slow at the highest levels, compounded with the fact that you lose exp upon death. How many people reached lvl99 without botting or utilizing the shadow economy? Not me, I gave up at lvl92 because it was a waste of time, better spent playing other classes.
If you want to talk about motivation, Hell D2 was incredibly demotivating. It's not fun seeing elites (sometimes normal mobs) with immunities to every kind of damage that you can dish out.
And people HAVE been arguing about leveling.
On June 21 2012 23:42 Ricjames wrote: BTW all they needed to do are the following:
1) redefine difficulty levels and make max. char level 99 2) remove freakin cooldown from potions and make potions expensive 3) make bosses drop better loot and make them twice as hard 4) optional but not possible - remove RMAH
Then we would have Diablo game instead of some crappy wow hybrid.
well you have to understand that inferno is killing the same bosses for the 4th time. I doubt anyone is going "oh boy I get to kill diablo AGAIN". And the motivation to kill harder bosses is there because you know the harder the are the better loot they might drop which is true for the entire difficulty setting. inferno drops are better than hell and so on. Loot is a big player here, however loot in d3 is garbage, everyone knows that. And to get back to leveling, yeah it's sure as hell is a big motivator because you're doing it while farming. And guess what, you get skill points and stat points for leveling, which is sadly missing from d3. You said yourself that you leveled to 92, but it's still better than just being stuck at 60. There is nothing to look forward to after you've beaten the game. The items are not exciting, the leveling isnt there, and to get anything good from bosses you have to go hunting stupid elite packs.
Now let me state again, I don't want d3 to be a carbon copy of d2, no. And you're right about monsters with immunities, they were frustrating. But how about they take good stuff and keep it and fix the bad stuff, replace it with something new and shiny and also GOOD. they didn't do it in this game. Thats the whole freaking point. Most of the new stuff, just replaces old stuff thats bad, but the new stuff is just as bad if not worse. I know they took a huge risk with the simplified skill system but guess what, it didn't pay off. And I cant praise them for that.
Well, you kill the same things over and over again when you're farming. If killing Diablo 4 times on 4 separate difficulties isn't a person's cup of tea, then farming warden/butcher, cyd/azmodan or whatever area available ain't gonna be enjoyable. Some people like to see loot drop.
As more and more people farm the crap out of Inferno, the market becomes saturated with tons of loot. Items that were selling for millions in the first week may be selling for 2000 now (especially gloves). The loot that you once considered "good" is now crap when compared to the 10000 better copies selling for bargain basement prices. Also, with decent loot cheaply available, you're gonna be able to upgrade your gear so rapidly that finding improvements through farming ain't gonna cut it anymore.
If Blizzard made the level cap 99 (plus Inferno entry level 99), the only difference is cosmetic. You still gain stats and skills with each level, they will just distribute over more levels. Currently, you gain levels at a pretty rapid rate, at least you don't get stuck on the same level for several hours (one of the main reasons for making more levels). Btw the stat/skill system in D2 is terribad, it's good they got rid of it.
I thought Blizzard made a long post about what they didn't like about D2 and how they improved it. They've also given updates on how these changes worked out.
Dude you just showed us in numerous post that you are exactly the noob targeted by blizzard when making diablo 3. Only that you reached max. lvl 92 in D2 and you consider it as horrible is enough for me. That was actually the best thing that you played it for a year and still haven't reached the max. level. I reached the max. level in D3 in 2 days and the game felt more boring day by day since that. The whole conception of it is just wrong and does not feel like diablo.
what is really your point of posting this dated article over and over again? inferno has changed quite a bit from Jay Wilson's original projection. I mean, it's already seen major nerfs in difficulty and farmability (made up word, what's up!)
Because they're arguing about why you don't gain levels in Inferno. Some people would rather think up grand elaborate conspiracy theories instead of simple fact checking. I refuted a point, and showed evidence to back up my claims.
Nobody is arguing about the absence of leveling in inferno. We are arguing about the lack of motivation/things to look forward to in inferno. It's rather pointless but none the less offers the best loot and the hardest bosses. The only 2 reasons to finish inferno. Diablo2 gave you more reasons, simple as that.
From your post, the three motivating factors are leveling, loot and bosses, of which only leveling is different from engame D2 and D3. Leveling in D2 is painfully slow at the highest levels, compounded with the fact that you lose exp upon death. How many people reached lvl99 without botting or utilizing the shadow economy? Not me, I gave up at lvl92 because it was a waste of time, better spent playing other classes.
If you want to talk about motivation, Hell D2 was incredibly demotivating. It's not fun seeing elites (sometimes normal mobs) with immunities to every kind of damage that you can dish out.
And people HAVE been arguing about leveling.
On June 21 2012 23:42 Ricjames wrote: BTW all they needed to do are the following:
1) redefine difficulty levels and make max. char level 99 2) remove freakin cooldown from potions and make potions expensive 3) make bosses drop better loot and make them twice as hard 4) optional but not possible - remove RMAH
Then we would have Diablo game instead of some crappy wow hybrid.
well you have to understand that inferno is killing the same bosses for the 4th time. I doubt anyone is going "oh boy I get to kill diablo AGAIN". And the motivation to kill harder bosses is there because you know the harder the are the better loot they might drop which is true for the entire difficulty setting. inferno drops are better than hell and so on. Loot is a big player here, however loot in d3 is garbage, everyone knows that. And to get back to leveling, yeah it's sure as hell is a big motivator because you're doing it while farming. And guess what, you get skill points and stat points for leveling, which is sadly missing from d3. You said yourself that you leveled to 92, but it's still better than just being stuck at 60. There is nothing to look forward to after you've beaten the game. The items are not exciting, the leveling isnt there, and to get anything good from bosses you have to go hunting stupid elite packs.
Now let me state again, I don't want d3 to be a carbon copy of d2, no. And you're right about monsters with immunities, they were frustrating. But how about they take good stuff and keep it and fix the bad stuff, replace it with something new and shiny and also GOOD. they didn't do it in this game. Thats the whole freaking point. Most of the new stuff, just replaces old stuff thats bad, but the new stuff is just as bad if not worse. I know they took a huge risk with the simplified skill system but guess what, it didn't pay off. And I cant praise them for that.
Well, you kill the same things over and over again when you're farming. If killing Diablo 4 times on 4 separate difficulties isn't a person's cup of tea, then farming warden/butcher, cyd/azmodan or whatever area available ain't gonna be enjoyable. Some people like to see loot drop.
As more and more people farm the crap out of Inferno, the market becomes saturated with tons of loot. Items that were selling for millions in the first week may be selling for 2000 now (especially gloves). The loot that you once considered "good" is now crap when compared to the 10000 better copies selling for bargain basement prices. Also, with decent loot cheaply available, you're gonna be able to upgrade your gear so rapidly that finding improvements through farming ain't gonna cut it anymore.
If Blizzard made the level cap 99 (plus Inferno entry level 99), the only difference is cosmetic. You still gain stats and skills with each level, they will just distribute over more levels. Currently, you gain levels at a pretty rapid rate, at least you don't get stuck on the same level for several hours (one of the main reasons for making more levels). Btw the stat/skill system in D2 is terribad, it's good they got rid of it.
I thought Blizzard made a long post about what they didn't like about D2 and how they improved it. They've also given updates on how these changes worked out.
Farming bosses is one thing but what I'm talking about is inferno as the last 4th difficulty level and the only thing it has going for is, the bosses are just harder. Why not let us level to 70 or 99 or whatever level during our inferno run. At least it would add something extra.
The auction house, I have no real problem with but it does have the diminishing return on the longevity of the game. I know in d2 you could buy items off some shady websites but they weren't supported by blizzard and while people possibly knew about them the vast majority didn't really use them. If you played single player properly you didn't even have the luxury of trading. Overall it just reduces the lifespan of the game because everything is already out there available for you to buy.
While the skill system wasn't amazing in d2 it was there for you to do whatever u want. You could make a full str barb or full dex zon. You could go 50/50, you could go max block, 50% or block from the gear. If someone wants to make a demonhunter with max str, let them do it. Even if it's not going to happen, the option of doing so is much better than no other options whatsoever. The new system doesn't improve anything, it only dumbs things down.
Diablo 3 is missing a big part of its release.. PVP. So before you question the longevity of the game, think about what PVP can bring to the table. It will be out this summer, so hold your horses and hold your horns for a bit longer.
Even though this patch is suppose to make transitioning easier... all the good gear to do inferno act 3/4 still is unobtainable without AH. I have about 5mill worth of gear I got from act 2. Going to act 3 I have to invest 5mil into one piece of gear. I don't farm gold. I don't want to monitor the AH and try my luck at reselling. I just want to bash monsters and be able to use the gear I get from them at least 1/10 of the time. Blizzard needs to incorporate something so that you don't need to rely on the AH. Say, make a new set of gear that binds to your account. These items are rare. You can't trade away /sell on the auction house, and can't repair,.. dropping these items would simply make it dissappear or only visible to you? Anyways, it would have the same functionality of a good buff, but can be permanent if you don't die and stuff.
On June 22 2012 05:26 Lokian wrote: Diablo 3 is missing a big part of its release.. PVP. So before you question the longevity of the game, think about what PVP can bring to the table. It will be out this summer, so hold your horses and hold your horns for a bit longer.
Even though this patch is suppose to make transitioning easier... all the good gear to do inferno act 3/4 still is unobtainable without AH. I have about 5mill worth of gear I got from act 2. Going to act 3 I have to invest 5mil into one piece of gear. I don't farm gold. I don't want to monitor the AH and try my luck at reselling. I just want to bash monsters and be able to use the gear I get from them at least 1/10 of the time. Blizzard needs to incorporate something so that you don't need to rely on the AH. Say, make a new set of gear that binds to your account. These items are rare. You can't trade away /sell on the auction house, and can't repair,.. dropping these items would simply make it dissappear or only visible to you?
Wtf? ilvl 63 drops in act 1 which means the gear is obtainable. If you don't want to grind and don't want to use the AH than just quit playing the game.
On June 21 2012 23:42 Ricjames wrote: BTW all they needed to do are the following:
1) redefine difficulty levels and make max. char level 99 2) remove freakin cooldown from potions and make potions expensive 3) make bosses drop better loot and make them twice as hard 4) optional but not possible - remove RMAH
Then we would have Diablo game instead of some crappy wow hybrid.
1) Lvl 60 is much better, no unfair level advantage in pvp (well maybe not ''unfair'', but who really takes the time to lvl to 99 or even close to that?).
2) Much better with cool down, so you can't just smash the lol full hp button everytime you got yourself in a hard spot.
3) They obviously don't want people to kill 1 boss, leave game and make the next 1.
4) What's wrong with rmah? Personally i stopped using paypal long ago for obvious reasons, but i can still use it as a better ingame currency than gold and perhaps buy some blizz games with it (hopefully hots).
There are a few things you clearly don't understand here. And in diablo2 they were resolved, maybe the developers got lucky or maybe they planned it from the start but here's the deal:
1) Let me just say right away, there is no pvp in d3 so your point is already invalid but for the sake of it. Previous instalments had pvp but it was never the focus of the game. You could declare hostility versus a players above lvl 9, so it was never balanced. And blizzard said, they don't want to balance pvp so, what's the point here exactly? On top of that, the main reason why lvl 60 is horrible is because once you're at max level, you have nothing else to do. You can only try and beat the game on hardest difficulty. Okay. You can farm for gear... but why would you? In diablo 2, if you played without rushing, there is no way you could have reached 99 by the end of Hell, specifically in vanilla d2. So in the end you still had some levels ahead of you that you would just get by farming gear. Those levels gave you more stat points and more skill points and you had some higher level gear that you couldn't equip yet until you leveled up. In d3, there is none of that. You just have inferno to beat but there is really nothing to motivate you to do it, combine that with god awful item design and overall loot drop system and you really start having second thoughts. You mention, why would anyone level all the way to 99? Well, you don't have to go all the way up there but it's nice to have something else to look for after you've beaten the game, don't you think?
2) So now, instead of potion spam we have people either chain-ressing each other or just kiting elites to the checkpoint where you can res and get back in the fight immediatly. There is really nothing wrong with potion spam, because it replaces skills that give u regen or healing skills. And now you have more options: Either go with no-regen items and just chug the potions or get some regen and use that as your crutch or just put some defensive healing/lifegaining skills on your bar. Besides, the potions in d3 don't even heal 50% of your hp, in some cases that don't even heal 25%.
3) Bosses drop nothing useful if you don't have valor stacks. So now you HAVE to go out there and kill 5 elite packs before you get to do your boss. It feels like a chore not like a game. If bosses dropped good loot but then elite packs would make that loot even better, yeah I can see how people would go out of their way to hunt down mobs. And besides, what's wrong with killing the same boss over and over? Gaming is very repetitive, in starcraft you have your openings and builds that you refine and you do them over and over again... Why can't I find a way to kill diablo fast and just do that? They have these random events in the world, well how about spawning some rare bosses during those events that drop cool loot. That would encourage players to go out there and do them.
4) There is nothing wrong with rmah, I agree on this one. In d2 you could go online and buy items, no problem. rmah is just an easier ans safer way of doing so. The only problem with rmah in d3, and it's not so much the AH itself but it's that bland, uninspired, boring itemisation in the game. No item feels unique. And partially the reason for that is the whole stats-on-items system that they have gone with. That's for another discussion though
Seems like you don't understand.
1) PvP is scheduled to come out in a later patch, and they'll balance it then. PvE is their first priority. Inferno was designed to be an optional difficulty level, for players who completed the game on hell and reached level 60 and "want something more". If you think the item design of D3 is god-awful, think about the design of D2. Not much better, in fact much more terrible.
2) Have fun chain-ressing with the increased repair costs. It was an unintended exploit, and thus it got nerfed. Potion spam is just plain retarded. Now, you actually have to play cautiously and carefully consider potion usage instead of facetanking everything. Although I will agree that a higher level potion should exist, and maybe the cooldown should be reduced to 15-20s.
3) Blizzard specifically didn't want people to do endless boss runs. That's why in patch 1.03, it's equally profitable to kill a boss or an elite, although some bosses are easier to kill because their mechanics are predictable and they don't have crazy affixes.
4) AH and RMAH is good in the sense that item trading is incorporated within the game, and you don't have to visit shady websites. I don't see why you're complaining about "no item feels unique" when D2 was a total fail in that regard.
Thank you for some support MyBattleship. He clearly doesn't get it, that's fine. All i want to say that this is hack and slash game, not hack run run run run slash game. I feel like playing wow despite i have never tried it.
Inferno being a bonus for people that finished the game on HELL - you have to be kidding me, right? Until inferno the game is a tutorial to try out what skill choices you have and the real game starts on inferno. Unfortunately it also ends right where it started, because you have already reached max. level.
Stop making up bullshit about WoW, then. I have a subscription to it from day 1 of release and current D3 doesn't play like WoW at all. In fact, it's not even remotely close. You guys sound like a bunch of teenagers just hating on the cool thing to hate without really knowing anything about it.
On June 22 2012 01:48 andrewlt wrote:
On June 22 2012 01:00 Ricjames wrote:
On June 22 2012 00:43 Heh_ wrote:
On June 22 2012 00:32 myBattleship wrote:
On June 21 2012 23:48 Technique wrote:
On June 21 2012 23:42 Ricjames wrote: BTW all they needed to do are the following:
1) redefine difficulty levels and make max. char level 99 2) remove freakin cooldown from potions and make potions expensive 3) make bosses drop better loot and make them twice as hard 4) optional but not possible - remove RMAH
Then we would have Diablo game instead of some crappy wow hybrid.
1) Lvl 60 is much better, no unfair level advantage in pvp (well maybe not ''unfair'', but who really takes the time to lvl to 99 or even close to that?).
2) Much better with cool down, so you can't just smash the lol full hp button everytime you got yourself in a hard spot.
3) They obviously don't want people to kill 1 boss, leave game and make the next 1.
4) What's wrong with rmah? Personally i stopped using paypal long ago for obvious reasons, but i can still use it as a better ingame currency than gold and perhaps buy some blizz games with it (hopefully hots).
There are a few things you clearly don't understand here. And in diablo2 they were resolved, maybe the developers got lucky or maybe they planned it from the start but here's the deal:
1) Let me just say right away, there is no pvp in d3 so your point is already invalid but for the sake of it. Previous instalments had pvp but it was never the focus of the game. You could declare hostility versus a players above lvl 9, so it was never balanced. And blizzard said, they don't want to balance pvp so, what's the point here exactly? On top of that, the main reason why lvl 60 is horrible is because once you're at max level, you have nothing else to do. You can only try and beat the game on hardest difficulty. Okay. You can farm for gear... but why would you? In diablo 2, if you played without rushing, there is no way you could have reached 99 by the end of Hell, specifically in vanilla d2. So in the end you still had some levels ahead of you that you would just get by farming gear. Those levels gave you more stat points and more skill points and you had some higher level gear that you couldn't equip yet until you leveled up. In d3, there is none of that. You just have inferno to beat but there is really nothing to motivate you to do it, combine that with god awful item design and overall loot drop system and you really start having second thoughts. You mention, why would anyone level all the way to 99? Well, you don't have to go all the way up there but it's nice to have something else to look for after you've beaten the game, don't you think?
2) So now, instead of potion spam we have people either chain-ressing each other or just kiting elites to the checkpoint where you can res and get back in the fight immediatly. There is really nothing wrong with potion spam, because it replaces skills that give u regen or healing skills. And now you have more options: Either go with no-regen items and just chug the potions or get some regen and use that as your crutch or just put some defensive healing/lifegaining skills on your bar. Besides, the potions in d3 don't even heal 50% of your hp, in some cases that don't even heal 25%.
3) Bosses drop nothing useful if you don't have valor stacks. So now you HAVE to go out there and kill 5 elite packs before you get to do your boss. It feels like a chore not like a game. If bosses dropped good loot but then elite packs would make that loot even better, yeah I can see how people would go out of their way to hunt down mobs. And besides, what's wrong with killing the same boss over and over? Gaming is very repetitive, in starcraft you have your openings and builds that you refine and you do them over and over again... Why can't I find a way to kill diablo fast and just do that? They have these random events in the world, well how about spawning some rare bosses during those events that drop cool loot. That would encourage players to go out there and do them.
4) There is nothing wrong with rmah, I agree on this one. In d2 you could go online and buy items, no problem. rmah is just an easier ans safer way of doing so. The only problem with rmah in d3, and it's not so much the AH itself but it's that bland, uninspired, boring itemisation in the game. No item feels unique. And partially the reason for that is the whole stats-on-items system that they have gone with. That's for another discussion though
Seems like you don't understand.
1) PvP is scheduled to come out in a later patch, and they'll balance it then. PvE is their first priority. Inferno was designed to be an optional difficulty level, for players who completed the game on hell and reached level 60 and "want something more". If you think the item design of D3 is god-awful, think about the design of D2. Not much better, in fact much more terrible.
2) Have fun chain-ressing with the increased repair costs. It was an unintended exploit, and thus it got nerfed. Potion spam is just plain retarded. Now, you actually have to play cautiously and carefully consider potion usage instead of facetanking everything. Although I will agree that a higher level potion should exist, and maybe the cooldown should be reduced to 15-20s.
3) Blizzard specifically didn't want people to do endless boss runs. That's why in patch 1.03, it's equally profitable to kill a boss or an elite, although some bosses are easier to kill because their mechanics are predictable and they don't have crazy affixes.
4) AH and RMAH is good in the sense that item trading is incorporated within the game, and you don't have to visit shady websites. I don't see why you're complaining about "no item feels unique" when D2 was a total fail in that regard.
Thank you for some support MyBattleship. He clearly doesn't get it, that's fine. All i want to say that this is hack and slash game, not hack run run run run slash game. I feel like playing wow despite i have never tried it.
Inferno being a bonus for people that finished the game on HELL - you have to be kidding me, right? Until inferno the game is a tutorial to try out what skill choices you have and the real game starts on inferno. Unfortunately it also ends right where it started, because you have already reached max. level.
Stop making up bullshit about WoW, then. I have a subscription to it from day 1 of release and current D3 doesn't play like WoW at all. In fact, it's not even remotely close. You guys sound like a bunch of teenagers just hating on the cool thing to hate without really knowing anything about it.
I have played WoW for a long time and while I can confirm that WoW and d3 play differently there are some obvious similarities ranging from minor details to the philosophy behind certain decisions.
A couple examples of minor details: - You can't just save & exit, unless you're in town. You have to wait for about 10 seconds before your game ends. In d2 you could save and exit anywhere in the world. Is this a big issue? Probably not, but it's what world of warcraft uses as a model. - You can't really put another skill on your skillbar midcombat or out there in the wilderness. In WoW you have to talk to your trainer to respec your character. You can only find trainers in town. In d3 you dont have to talk anyone but if you want your skills instantly available to u, you have to go to town. In d2 you could just hotkey a skill anywhere anytime. Obviously in d2 you couldn't completely change your skills (until very recently) but if you had all the skills available to you, you could hotkey them or swap them out anytime. - potions usage is exactly the same as in world of warcraft. Potions don't heal for a lot and they have a cooldown. Nothing like it was in d2. Again, is this a big issue? Maybe not, but did we really have to change it? I don't know.
As far as some of the design decisions go: - in WoW, you don't really have a boss that you can just go and farm over and over again (yes it's an MMO with a reset timer I know). What I'm getting at here is, in Wow, unless you had a instance where there is just one boss and nothing else, you would have to go and clear trash up to the boss, possibly kill some minor bosses before getting to that last boss you want to kill for some good loot. In d3 you HAVE to go out and get valor stacks before killing a boss because otherwise he doesn't drop anything useful. Obviously it's not identical, but there are threads running through both of these designs, the goal here is to give people that 30min-1hour time (d3) and 1hour-3hours (wow) time frame to work within. A siegebreaker run on my mage takes about 20 to 30 minutes (solo). And my azmodan runs took me about 30 to 40 minutes (in group of 3 or 4). On inferno obviously. - level cap. I'm not referring to level 60 cap directly, I'm just saying that the real endgame (best loot, hardest encounters) start at max level cap. But why? Why can't we level in inferno? There is nothing to look forward to, because we have already killed all the bosses 3 times by this point. We have all the skills. You can say the gear is what drives you and also the desire to complete the game. However, the gear problem is there. lvl 60 gear has item levels and they reflect it's quality. So if you have a lvl 60 500dps bow it's useless because there is a lvl 60 1000 dps bow. If that 1000dps bow required your character to be level 65, that's a different story. - item progression: Like I mentioned in my previous point. item level reflects the quality of the item so unless an item has some specific properties, unique properties, you're just looking to upgrade the item level. Bracers with 50 int and lvl requirment 60 will get replaced by bracers that give you 100 int and require that same lvl 60. But what if the bracers with 50 int had some cool additional stat to go with them? D3 has a few, but only very few items like this. Lacuni prawlers (bracers) gave you attack speed and movement speed, regular rare bracers don'tspawn with these properties so you have a choice there. But there needs to be more of these items, especially on the weapons front.
these are just a few points. There are obviously more but I think the ones I mentioned are pretty obvious. And I want to emphasize that I dont hate d3, I have close to 250 hours played on 3 different characters, 2 of which I have cleared inferno with. I've stopped playing and the main reason for that is there is nothing to do in inferno.
Not to mention that the combat mechanics, target aquisition, monster AI, world persistence, character controls and numerous other things are completely different.
Hey that's pretty cool. things you list, a lot of them were in diablo2 and they remained the same. great! But why did they borrow from WoW so many things that really had no place in a diablo game? Can you please explain to me? I don't think so. By the way, world persistence... Are you trying to tell me that a MMO is different from a single player game with multiplayer component? lol Come on now m8, please. You had to really scrape the bottom of the barrel to come up with these things.
Actually, I can tell you why. But first, please stop being so pig-headed (stubborn) and rude when discussing this.
In an interview they said that they were not trying to recreate diablo 2 or diablo 1. They were making a new game and wanted to change some things up that they thought could be done better (like potions, leveling, skill system, etc.). To sum it up: If you want to play diablo 2, go play diablo 2. Their intent was not to make diablo 2 version 2.
Will their ideas work? I think so but it's still to early to tell. By your comments I can basically tell you didn't play diablo 2 when it was first released as it basically sucked shit compared to what it was after a couple of patches, the expansion and then a couple more patches. Diablo 2, especially after normal difficulty, was ridiculously broken in terms of items and skills when it was first released and it didn't get fixed until months later.
On June 22 2012 03:16 myBattleship wrote: By the way, world persistence... Are you trying to tell me that a MMO is different from a single player game with multiplayer component? lol Come on now m8, please. You had to really scrape the bottom of the barrel to come up with these things.
You really think you can just intimidate or ridicule people into believing there is no difference between an instanced multi-player game and a massively multi-player online (MMO) game? There is quite a large difference. I recommend you educate yourself. Here are some quick tips though: - multiplayer games have their worlds "destroyed" as soon as the game is quit, MMO 'states' are only "destroyed" during server maintenance. - MMOs rely on monster spawning for their monster population. Multiplayer games create monsters on creation only (not always but for diablo this is the case). - MMOs have to be hosted on a server but multi-player games can be hosted on a server or locally. ... I could keep going but I'd rather you just find some literature on the subject and find out for yourself.
On June 22 2012 05:26 Lokian wrote: Diablo 3 is missing a big part of its release.. PVP. So before you question the longevity of the game, think about what PVP can bring to the table. It will be out this summer, so hold your horses and hold your horns for a bit longer.
Even though this patch is suppose to make transitioning easier... all the good gear to do inferno act 3/4 still is unobtainable without AH. I have about 5mill worth of gear I got from act 2. Going to act 3 I have to invest 5mil into one piece of gear. I don't farm gold. I don't want to monitor the AH and try my luck at reselling. I just want to bash monsters and be able to use the gear I get from them at least 1/10 of the time. Blizzard needs to incorporate something so that you don't need to rely on the AH. Say, make a new set of gear that binds to your account. These items are rare. You can't trade away /sell on the auction house, and can't repair,.. dropping these items would simply make it dissappear or only visible to you?
Wtf? ilvl 63 drops in act 1 which means the gear is obtainable. If you don't want to grind and don't want to use the AH than just quit playing the game.
I do grind, but in inferno, there's only one type of gear. vit/all resist, and certain extras. i've been farming act 2 and the drop rates are better and ilevel 63 items are there. but to get the right one the chances are slim. I don't know how many affixes are there, but the sheer variety makes it so its unobtainable. Sure, you get lucky with one piece, but you need five more. I don't use the AH very often, and this is the struggle of someone that doesn't.
btw, saying that i dont want to grind, were you referring to gold grinding? i dont think not wanting to gold farm is merit to telling someone to GTFO. calm down man. no ones taking your pizza away from you
I personally like the AH. Today I was helping my brother in Act I Inferno and I got a 770dps 1h wand w/ 2500 Life after kill and 120% crit damage with socket. None of us could use it, but it was still a decent drop. I was able to sell it for 2M which I can now spend on relevant gear for my barbarian. What's so bad about that?
On June 21 2012 23:42 Ricjames wrote: BTW all they needed to do are the following:
1) redefine difficulty levels and make max. char level 99 2) remove freakin cooldown from potions and make potions expensive 3) make bosses drop better loot and make them twice as hard 4) optional but not possible - remove RMAH
Then we would have Diablo game instead of some crappy wow hybrid.
1) Lvl 60 is much better, no unfair level advantage in pvp (well maybe not ''unfair'', but who really takes the time to lvl to 99 or even close to that?).
2) Much better with cool down, so you can't just smash the lol full hp button everytime you got yourself in a hard spot.
3) They obviously don't want people to kill 1 boss, leave game and make the next 1.
4) What's wrong with rmah? Personally i stopped using paypal long ago for obvious reasons, but i can still use it as a better ingame currency than gold and perhaps buy some blizz games with it (hopefully hots).
There are a few things you clearly don't understand here. And in diablo2 they were resolved, maybe the developers got lucky or maybe they planned it from the start but here's the deal:
1) Let me just say right away, there is no pvp in d3 so your point is already invalid but for the sake of it. Previous instalments had pvp but it was never the focus of the game. You could declare hostility versus a players above lvl 9, so it was never balanced. And blizzard said, they don't want to balance pvp so, what's the point here exactly? On top of that, the main reason why lvl 60 is horrible is because once you're at max level, you have nothing else to do. You can only try and beat the game on hardest difficulty. Okay. You can farm for gear... but why would you? In diablo 2, if you played without rushing, there is no way you could have reached 99 by the end of Hell, specifically in vanilla d2. So in the end you still had some levels ahead of you that you would just get by farming gear. Those levels gave you more stat points and more skill points and you had some higher level gear that you couldn't equip yet until you leveled up. In d3, there is none of that. You just have inferno to beat but there is really nothing to motivate you to do it, combine that with god awful item design and overall loot drop system and you really start having second thoughts. You mention, why would anyone level all the way to 99? Well, you don't have to go all the way up there but it's nice to have something else to look for after you've beaten the game, don't you think?
2) So now, instead of potion spam we have people either chain-ressing each other or just kiting elites to the checkpoint where you can res and get back in the fight immediatly. There is really nothing wrong with potion spam, because it replaces skills that give u regen or healing skills. And now you have more options: Either go with no-regen items and just chug the potions or get some regen and use that as your crutch or just put some defensive healing/lifegaining skills on your bar. Besides, the potions in d3 don't even heal 50% of your hp, in some cases that don't even heal 25%.
3) Bosses drop nothing useful if you don't have valor stacks. So now you HAVE to go out there and kill 5 elite packs before you get to do your boss. It feels like a chore not like a game. If bosses dropped good loot but then elite packs would make that loot even better, yeah I can see how people would go out of their way to hunt down mobs. And besides, what's wrong with killing the same boss over and over? Gaming is very repetitive, in starcraft you have your openings and builds that you refine and you do them over and over again... Why can't I find a way to kill diablo fast and just do that? They have these random events in the world, well how about spawning some rare bosses during those events that drop cool loot. That would encourage players to go out there and do them.
4) There is nothing wrong with rmah, I agree on this one. In d2 you could go online and buy items, no problem. rmah is just an easier ans safer way of doing so. The only problem with rmah in d3, and it's not so much the AH itself but it's that bland, uninspired, boring itemisation in the game. No item feels unique. And partially the reason for that is the whole stats-on-items system that they have gone with. That's for another discussion though
Seems like you don't understand.
1) PvP is scheduled to come out in a later patch, and they'll balance it then. PvE is their first priority. Inferno was designed to be an optional difficulty level, for players who completed the game on hell and reached level 60 and "want something more". If you think the item design of D3 is god-awful, think about the design of D2. Not much better, in fact much more terrible.
2) Have fun chain-ressing with the increased repair costs. It was an unintended exploit, and thus it got nerfed. Potion spam is just plain retarded. Now, you actually have to play cautiously and carefully consider potion usage instead of facetanking everything. Although I will agree that a higher level potion should exist, and maybe the cooldown should be reduced to 15-20s.
3) Blizzard specifically didn't want people to do endless boss runs. That's why in patch 1.03, it's equally profitable to kill a boss or an elite, although some bosses are easier to kill because their mechanics are predictable and they don't have crazy affixes.
4) AH and RMAH is good in the sense that item trading is incorporated within the game, and you don't have to visit shady websites. I don't see why you're complaining about "no item feels unique" when D2 was a total fail in that regard.
Thank you for some support MyBattleship. He clearly doesn't get it, that's fine. All i want to say that this is hack and slash game, not hack run run run run slash game. I feel like playing wow despite i have never tried it.
Inferno being a bonus for people that finished the game on HELL - you have to be kidding me, right? Until inferno the game is a tutorial to try out what skill choices you have and the real game starts on inferno. Unfortunately it also ends right where it started, because you have already reached max. level.
Stop making up bullshit about WoW, then. I have a subscription to it from day 1 of release and current D3 doesn't play like WoW at all. In fact, it's not even remotely close. You guys sound like a bunch of teenagers just hating on the cool thing to hate without really knowing anything about it.
On June 22 2012 01:48 andrewlt wrote:
On June 22 2012 01:00 Ricjames wrote:
On June 22 2012 00:43 Heh_ wrote:
On June 22 2012 00:32 myBattleship wrote:
On June 21 2012 23:48 Technique wrote:
On June 21 2012 23:42 Ricjames wrote: BTW all they needed to do are the following:
1) redefine difficulty levels and make max. char level 99 2) remove freakin cooldown from potions and make potions expensive 3) make bosses drop better loot and make them twice as hard 4) optional but not possible - remove RMAH
Then we would have Diablo game instead of some crappy wow hybrid.
1) Lvl 60 is much better, no unfair level advantage in pvp (well maybe not ''unfair'', but who really takes the time to lvl to 99 or even close to that?).
2) Much better with cool down, so you can't just smash the lol full hp button everytime you got yourself in a hard spot.
3) They obviously don't want people to kill 1 boss, leave game and make the next 1.
4) What's wrong with rmah? Personally i stopped using paypal long ago for obvious reasons, but i can still use it as a better ingame currency than gold and perhaps buy some blizz games with it (hopefully hots).
There are a few things you clearly don't understand here. And in diablo2 they were resolved, maybe the developers got lucky or maybe they planned it from the start but here's the deal:
1) Let me just say right away, there is no pvp in d3 so your point is already invalid but for the sake of it. Previous instalments had pvp but it was never the focus of the game. You could declare hostility versus a players above lvl 9, so it was never balanced. And blizzard said, they don't want to balance pvp so, what's the point here exactly? On top of that, the main reason why lvl 60 is horrible is because once you're at max level, you have nothing else to do. You can only try and beat the game on hardest difficulty. Okay. You can farm for gear... but why would you? In diablo 2, if you played without rushing, there is no way you could have reached 99 by the end of Hell, specifically in vanilla d2. So in the end you still had some levels ahead of you that you would just get by farming gear. Those levels gave you more stat points and more skill points and you had some higher level gear that you couldn't equip yet until you leveled up. In d3, there is none of that. You just have inferno to beat but there is really nothing to motivate you to do it, combine that with god awful item design and overall loot drop system and you really start having second thoughts. You mention, why would anyone level all the way to 99? Well, you don't have to go all the way up there but it's nice to have something else to look for after you've beaten the game, don't you think?
2) So now, instead of potion spam we have people either chain-ressing each other or just kiting elites to the checkpoint where you can res and get back in the fight immediatly. There is really nothing wrong with potion spam, because it replaces skills that give u regen or healing skills. And now you have more options: Either go with no-regen items and just chug the potions or get some regen and use that as your crutch or just put some defensive healing/lifegaining skills on your bar. Besides, the potions in d3 don't even heal 50% of your hp, in some cases that don't even heal 25%.
3) Bosses drop nothing useful if you don't have valor stacks. So now you HAVE to go out there and kill 5 elite packs before you get to do your boss. It feels like a chore not like a game. If bosses dropped good loot but then elite packs would make that loot even better, yeah I can see how people would go out of their way to hunt down mobs. And besides, what's wrong with killing the same boss over and over? Gaming is very repetitive, in starcraft you have your openings and builds that you refine and you do them over and over again... Why can't I find a way to kill diablo fast and just do that? They have these random events in the world, well how about spawning some rare bosses during those events that drop cool loot. That would encourage players to go out there and do them.
4) There is nothing wrong with rmah, I agree on this one. In d2 you could go online and buy items, no problem. rmah is just an easier ans safer way of doing so. The only problem with rmah in d3, and it's not so much the AH itself but it's that bland, uninspired, boring itemisation in the game. No item feels unique. And partially the reason for that is the whole stats-on-items system that they have gone with. That's for another discussion though
Seems like you don't understand.
1) PvP is scheduled to come out in a later patch, and they'll balance it then. PvE is their first priority. Inferno was designed to be an optional difficulty level, for players who completed the game on hell and reached level 60 and "want something more". If you think the item design of D3 is god-awful, think about the design of D2. Not much better, in fact much more terrible.
2) Have fun chain-ressing with the increased repair costs. It was an unintended exploit, and thus it got nerfed. Potion spam is just plain retarded. Now, you actually have to play cautiously and carefully consider potion usage instead of facetanking everything. Although I will agree that a higher level potion should exist, and maybe the cooldown should be reduced to 15-20s.
3) Blizzard specifically didn't want people to do endless boss runs. That's why in patch 1.03, it's equally profitable to kill a boss or an elite, although some bosses are easier to kill because their mechanics are predictable and they don't have crazy affixes.
4) AH and RMAH is good in the sense that item trading is incorporated within the game, and you don't have to visit shady websites. I don't see why you're complaining about "no item feels unique" when D2 was a total fail in that regard.
Thank you for some support MyBattleship. He clearly doesn't get it, that's fine. All i want to say that this is hack and slash game, not hack run run run run slash game. I feel like playing wow despite i have never tried it.
Inferno being a bonus for people that finished the game on HELL - you have to be kidding me, right? Until inferno the game is a tutorial to try out what skill choices you have and the real game starts on inferno. Unfortunately it also ends right where it started, because you have already reached max. level.
Stop making up bullshit about WoW, then. I have a subscription to it from day 1 of release and current D3 doesn't play like WoW at all. In fact, it's not even remotely close. You guys sound like a bunch of teenagers just hating on the cool thing to hate without really knowing anything about it.
I have played WoW for a long time and while I can confirm that WoW and d3 play differently there are some obvious similarities ranging from minor details to the philosophy behind certain decisions.
A couple examples of minor details: - You can't just save & exit, unless you're in town. You have to wait for about 10 seconds before your game ends. In d2 you could save and exit anywhere in the world. Is this a big issue? Probably not, but it's what world of warcraft uses as a model. - You can't really put another skill on your skillbar midcombat or out there in the wilderness. In WoW you have to talk to your trainer to respec your character. You can only find trainers in town. In d3 you dont have to talk anyone but if you want your skills instantly available to u, you have to go to town. In d2 you could just hotkey a skill anywhere anytime. Obviously in d2 you couldn't completely change your skills (until very recently) but if you had all the skills available to you, you could hotkey them or swap them out anytime. - potions usage is exactly the same as in world of warcraft. Potions don't heal for a lot and they have a cooldown. Nothing like it was in d2. Again, is this a big issue? Maybe not, but did we really have to change it? I don't know.
As far as some of the design decisions go: - in WoW, you don't really have a boss that you can just go and farm over and over again (yes it's an MMO with a reset timer I know). What I'm getting at here is, in Wow, unless you had a instance where there is just one boss and nothing else, you would have to go and clear trash up to the boss, possibly kill some minor bosses before getting to that last boss you want to kill for some good loot. In d3 you HAVE to go out and get valor stacks before killing a boss because otherwise he doesn't drop anything useful. Obviously it's not identical, but there are threads running through both of these designs, the goal here is to give people that 30min-1hour time (d3) and 1hour-3hours (wow) time frame to work within. A siegebreaker run on my mage takes about 20 to 30 minutes (solo). And my azmodan runs took me about 30 to 40 minutes (in group of 3 or 4). On inferno obviously. - level cap. I'm not referring to level 60 cap directly, I'm just saying that the real endgame (best loot, hardest encounters) start at max level cap. But why? Why can't we level in inferno? There is nothing to look forward to, because we have already killed all the bosses 3 times by this point. We have all the skills. You can say the gear is what drives you and also the desire to complete the game. However, the gear problem is there. lvl 60 gear has item levels and they reflect it's quality. So if you have a lvl 60 500dps bow it's useless because there is a lvl 60 1000 dps bow. If that 1000dps bow required your character to be level 65, that's a different story. - item progression: Like I mentioned in my previous point. item level reflects the quality of the item so unless an item has some specific properties, unique properties, you're just looking to upgrade the item level. Bracers with 50 int and lvl requirment 60 will get replaced by bracers that give you 100 int and require that same lvl 60. But what if the bracers with 50 int had some cool additional stat to go with them? D3 has a few, but only very few items like this. Lacuni prawlers (bracers) gave you attack speed and movement speed, regular rare bracers don'tspawn with these properties so you have a choice there. But there needs to be more of these items, especially on the weapons front.
these are just a few points. There are obviously more but I think the ones I mentioned are pretty obvious. And I want to emphasize that I dont hate d3, I have close to 250 hours played on 3 different characters, 2 of which I have cleared inferno with. I've stopped playing and the main reason for that is there is nothing to do in inferno.
Not to mention that the combat mechanics, target aquisition, monster AI, world persistence, character controls and numerous other things are completely different.
Hey that's pretty cool. things you list, a lot of them were in diablo2 and they remained the same. great! But why did they borrow from WoW so many things that really had no place in a diablo game? Can you please explain to me? I don't think so. By the way, world persistence... Are you trying to tell me that a MMO is different from a single player game with multiplayer component? lol Come on now m8, please. You had to really scrape the bottom of the barrel to come up with these things.
Actually, I can tell you why. But first, please stop being so pig-headed (stubborn) and rude when discussing this.
In an interview they said that they were not trying to recreate diablo 2 or diablo 1. They were making a new game and wanted to change some things up that they thought could be done better (like potions, leveling, skill system, etc.). To sum it up: If you want to play diablo 2, go play diablo 2. Their intent was not to make diablo 2 version 2.
Will their ideas work? I think so but it's still to early to tell. By your comments I can basically tell you didn't play diablo 2 when it was first released as it basically sucked shit compared to what it was after a couple of patches, the expansion and then a couple more patches. Diablo 2, especially after normal difficulty, was ridiculously broken in terms of items and skills when it was first released and it didn't get fixed until months later.
I have played it at release and yeah it wasn't that great but it wasn't god awful. And I have over 200 hours in d3, I don't hate the game, I'm just saying it has no staying power, no longevity. The thing is, are you looking for d3 to be better or at least as good as diablo 1/2? Or are you looking for it to be just slightly better than what d2 at release was? One of their interviews mentioned that d3 had more unique (legendary) items than d2. But guess what, they only had a few more items than d2's release product. If you look at d2:LOD and the patches, d3 has like 5 or more times less items. They have 4 gems... d2 had more gems and all the runes and jewels. d2 also had more socketable items even though d3 has more items to equip. d3 is just unfinished and their "new" and "better" design decisions are in fact not better and not new. Again, I don't want to harp on their simplified stats system but, in d2 most of points usually went in to stamina/vitality (= what they call "no choice" or "no variety") and yet in d3 you don't even have a choice where you stats go. Everyone is just looking for their main damage stat and vitality (haha). There is no variety either.
On June 22 2012 05:26 Lokian wrote: Diablo 3 is missing a big part of its release.. PVP. So before you question the longevity of the game, think about what PVP can bring to the table. It will be out this summer, so hold your horses and hold your horns for a bit longer.
Even though this patch is suppose to make transitioning easier... all the good gear to do inferno act 3/4 still is unobtainable without AH. I have about 5mill worth of gear I got from act 2. Going to act 3 I have to invest 5mil into one piece of gear. I don't farm gold. I don't want to monitor the AH and try my luck at reselling. I just want to bash monsters and be able to use the gear I get from them at least 1/10 of the time. Blizzard needs to incorporate something so that you don't need to rely on the AH. Say, make a new set of gear that binds to your account. These items are rare. You can't trade away /sell on the auction house, and can't repair,.. dropping these items would simply make it dissappear or only visible to you?
Wtf? ilvl 63 drops in act 1 which means the gear is obtainable. If you don't want to grind and don't want to use the AH than just quit playing the game.
I do grind, but in inferno, there's only one type of gear. vit/all resist, and certain extras. i've been farming act 2 and the drop rates are better and ilevel 63 items are there. but to get the right one the chances are slim. I don't know how many affixes are there, but the sheer variety makes it so its unobtainable. Sure, you get lucky with one piece, but you need five more. I don't use the AH very often, and this is the struggle of someone that doesn't.
btw, saying that i dont want to grind, were you referring to gold grinding? i dont think not wanting to gold farm is merit to telling someone to GTFO. calm down man. no ones taking your pizza away from you
Why would I be referring to gold grinding? Grinding is all the same. You said gear is unobtainable which is far from true since that's exactly what patch 1.0.3 did - it made the gear obtainable for the people stuck on Act I and II while screwing over those in Act III and IV. And if you think there's variety in gear than you're sadly mistaken...
Your post can be summarized into a simple sentence, "I want gear handed to me without any effort."
On June 22 2012 05:26 Lokian wrote: Diablo 3 is missing a big part of its release.. PVP. So before you question the longevity of the game, think about what PVP can bring to the table. It will be out this summer, so hold your horses and hold your horns for a bit longer.
Even though this patch is suppose to make transitioning easier... all the good gear to do inferno act 3/4 still is unobtainable without AH. I have about 5mill worth of gear I got from act 2. Going to act 3 I have to invest 5mil into one piece of gear. I don't farm gold. I don't want to monitor the AH and try my luck at reselling. I just want to bash monsters and be able to use the gear I get from them at least 1/10 of the time. Blizzard needs to incorporate something so that you don't need to rely on the AH. Say, make a new set of gear that binds to your account. These items are rare. You can't trade away /sell on the auction house, and can't repair,.. dropping these items would simply make it dissappear or only visible to you?
Wtf? ilvl 63 drops in act 1 which means the gear is obtainable. If you don't want to grind and don't want to use the AH than just quit playing the game.
I have yet to see or hear about someone getting 63 on act 1 ... I got a set but not a 63 ...
On June 22 2012 05:26 Lokian wrote: Diablo 3 is missing a big part of its release.. PVP. So before you question the longevity of the game, think about what PVP can bring to the table. It will be out this summer, so hold your horses and hold your horns for a bit longer.
Even though this patch is suppose to make transitioning easier... all the good gear to do inferno act 3/4 still is unobtainable without AH. I have about 5mill worth of gear I got from act 2. Going to act 3 I have to invest 5mil into one piece of gear. I don't farm gold. I don't want to monitor the AH and try my luck at reselling. I just want to bash monsters and be able to use the gear I get from them at least 1/10 of the time. Blizzard needs to incorporate something so that you don't need to rely on the AH. Say, make a new set of gear that binds to your account. These items are rare. You can't trade away /sell on the auction house, and can't repair,.. dropping these items would simply make it dissappear or only visible to you?
Wtf? ilvl 63 drops in act 1 which means the gear is obtainable. If you don't want to grind and don't want to use the AH than just quit playing the game.
I do grind, but in inferno, there's only one type of gear. vit/all resist, and certain extras. i've been farming act 2 and the drop rates are better and ilevel 63 items are there. but to get the right one the chances are slim. I don't know how many affixes are there, but the sheer variety makes it so its unobtainable. Sure, you get lucky with one piece, but you need five more. I don't use the AH very often, and this is the struggle of someone that doesn't.
btw, saying that i dont want to grind, were you referring to gold grinding? i dont think not wanting to gold farm is merit to telling someone to GTFO. calm down man. no ones taking your pizza away from you
Why would I be referring to gold grinding? Grinding is all the same. You said gear is unobtainable which is far from true since that's exactly what patch 1.0.3 did - it made the gear obtainable for the people stuck on Act I and II while screwing over those in Act III and IV. And if you think there's variety in gear than you're sadly mistaken...
Your post can be summarized into a simple sentence, "I want gear handed to me without any effort."
No its not. I can't tell if you're a troll or not but I said I just wanted to grind monsters and not have to use the AH for everything.
let me quote myself:
I don't farm gold. I don't want to monitor the AH and try my luck at reselling. I just want to bash monsters and be able to use the gear I get from them at least 1/10 of the time.
So yeah, I grind those acts pretty hard.
also
Going to act 3
means im in act 3. act 1 and 2 is not a big deal. i want the gear to farm siegebreaker without AH.
As someones who's farmed act II before and after the patch, there is a big difference in drops. Theres more vareity. Before, my yellows were all lvl 59+. Now, I get lvl 54 yellows in act II even... The drop rates were never revealed before, so you don't know if its actually better or not that much better.
And I'm not asking for items to be handed to me... THat's why I don't pay attention to the AH. because its cheat. If I wanted items handed to me, I'd pay up gold or cash for them. I'm doing it the hard way, actually regular NV grinding.
On June 22 2012 05:26 Lokian wrote: Diablo 3 is missing a big part of its release.. PVP. So before you question the longevity of the game, think about what PVP can bring to the table. It will be out this summer, so hold your horses and hold your horns for a bit longer.
Even though this patch is suppose to make transitioning easier... all the good gear to do inferno act 3/4 still is unobtainable without AH. I have about 5mill worth of gear I got from act 2. Going to act 3 I have to invest 5mil into one piece of gear. I don't farm gold. I don't want to monitor the AH and try my luck at reselling. I just want to bash monsters and be able to use the gear I get from them at least 1/10 of the time. Blizzard needs to incorporate something so that you don't need to rely on the AH. Say, make a new set of gear that binds to your account. These items are rare. You can't trade away /sell on the auction house, and can't repair,.. dropping these items would simply make it dissappear or only visible to you?
Wtf? ilvl 63 drops in act 1 which means the gear is obtainable. If you don't want to grind and don't want to use the AH than just quit playing the game.
I do grind, but in inferno, there's only one type of gear. vit/all resist, and certain extras. i've been farming act 2 and the drop rates are better and ilevel 63 items are there. but to get the right one the chances are slim. I don't know how many affixes are there, but the sheer variety makes it so its unobtainable. Sure, you get lucky with one piece, but you need five more. I don't use the AH very often, and this is the struggle of someone that doesn't.
btw, saying that i dont want to grind, were you referring to gold grinding? i dont think not wanting to gold farm is merit to telling someone to GTFO. calm down man. no ones taking your pizza away from you
Why would I be referring to gold grinding? Grinding is all the same. You said gear is unobtainable which is far from true since that's exactly what patch 1.0.3 did - it made the gear obtainable for the people stuck on Act I and II while screwing over those in Act III and IV. And if you think there's variety in gear than you're sadly mistaken...
Your post can be summarized into a simple sentence, "I want gear handed to me without any effort."
it's funny because people don't seem to realize that it will inevitably fuck everyone over. Now that those players stuck in act1/2 can potentially farm up easier, they will just get to act 3/4 and suffer the same inefficient farming. Perhaps they won't care because they didn't know what it was before, but it's a very short term solution; cut your nose to spite your face type stuff.
dont play enough or aren't good enough to progress? Here, progression is now easier. However, the reward for your progress is now 40-66% less. Hope you're happy!
I'm going to throw this out there. I had multiple characters kill Diablo in Hell in Diablo 2. From what I remember, I had at least 7 complete the act. I also had quite a few that I abandoned earlier. I never had any one of those characters hit level 90. It was extremely tedious. Roughly mid to high 80s was the highest I ever got.
For me, once I beat the final boss of the final difficulty of the game, the only thing keeping me coming back is character progression. It's fun getting better items to see how much more powerful my character is when I do my next run. Once the time commitment to get incrementally stronger gets too high, I just quit. It's not fun for me anymore. In Diablo 2, that meant leveling until it takes too long to get to the next level for me. It meant farming locations until it took too long to get the next item upgrade.
Diablo 3 patch 1.03, to me, was an improvement in some aspects. I didn't like them reducing guaranteed rares from 5 NV stacks on bosses from 2 to 1. I liked them giving out a guaranteed rare from champion/unique packs. But most of all, I hate how much they nerfed the drop rates in act 3/act 4. I tried a couple of 2-hour runs and am incredibly discouraged by the loot I got. My progression has just hit a brick wall.
The biggest fallacy Blizzard and its defenders is making is the assumption that people will play until they get a perfect character. They assume that if drop rates were nerfed to such a degree that people will get perfect gear in 50 years, people will actually play Diablo 3 for 50 years. People aren't. If drop rates become so low that people don't feel like they are progressing, they're going to quit playing their unfinished characters to play another game.
Right now, I'm very close to that level. Before 1.03, I was already at 200 hours. I was estimating that I would hit 400 hours before I start playing at a lot more casual level. Even if I wasn't getting a lot of upgrades through drops, I was getting enough sellable gear during my Cydaea/Azmodan runs that I could afford to buy stuff from the AH. Once the patch hit, I'm getting fewer good items and I'm seeing fewer good items listed on the AH. After 1.03, I don't feel like farming in inferno any longer. The drop rates for act 3 are just that low and that discouraging. Once my barb hits level 60, I'm probably going to drop D3 immediately.
How stupid of me to think 1.0.3 would bring back the fun... Blizzard is really genius! No other developer on this planet would manage to make this game even more worse! Now, I can progress through Act3 much easier but its worseless because the the Drops even with 5xNV are way worse than Pre-Patch. Its great that every pack drops 1-3 yellows if they are level55-58 ....NOT! And as Barb the best thing to make money is NOT to get hit by any mobs...
I think 1.0.3 was the Patch to make even the last nerds who played D3 quit, that they can reduce the serverload and make even more Profit!
tbh, this patch has made it so i've stopped playing endgame diablo 3. i'm much more content leveling up characters now, than getting punished for trying to farm up act 3 inferno.
also, riot should thank blizzard, i'm finally going back to playing lol, after 3 weeks of not playing it.
patch 1.03, secret conspiracy to force diablo 3 players to play other games.
So how are you supposed to beat ghom now? Wtihin a couple (like 30-45) of seconds he has the entire room - yes, the entire room,e xcept maybe a tiny corner full of poison that kills me in like 6 seconds even with 1200 poison resist.
It's even worse in groups where the non melee characters die instantly and he has 150% hp.
On June 22 2012 06:18 andrewlt wrote: I'm going to throw this out there. I had multiple characters kill Diablo in Hell in Diablo 2. From what I remember, I had at least 7 complete the act. I also had quite a few that I abandoned earlier. I never had any one of those characters hit level 90. It was extremely tedious. Roughly mid to high 80s was the highest I ever got.
For me, once I beat the final boss of the final difficulty of the game, the only thing keeping me coming back is character progression. It's fun getting better items to see how much more powerful my character is when I do my next run. Once the time commitment to get incrementally stronger gets too high, I just quit. It's not fun for me anymore. In Diablo 2, that meant leveling until it takes too long to get to the next level for me. It meant farming locations until it took too long to get the next item upgrade.
Diablo 3 patch 1.03, to me, was an improvement in some aspects. I didn't like them reducing guaranteed rares from 5 NV stacks on bosses from 2 to 1. I liked them giving out a guaranteed rare from champion/unique packs. But most of all, I hate how much they nerfed the drop rates in act 3/act 4. I tried a couple of 2-hour runs and am incredibly discouraged by the loot I got. My progression has just hit a brick wall.
The biggest fallacy Blizzard and its defenders is making is the assumption that people will play until they get a perfect character. They assume that if drop rates were nerfed to such a degree that people will get perfect gear in 50 years, people will actually play Diablo 3 for 50 years. People aren't. If drop rates become so low that people don't feel like they are progressing, they're going to quit playing their unfinished characters to play another game.
Right now, I'm very close to that level. Before 1.03, I was already at 200 hours. I was estimating that I would hit 400 hours before I start playing at a lot more casual level. Even if I wasn't getting a lot of upgrades through drops, I was getting enough sellable gear during my Cydaea/Azmodan runs that I could afford to buy stuff from the AH. Once the patch hit, I'm getting fewer good items and I'm seeing fewer good items listed on the AH. After 1.03, I don't feel like farming in inferno any longer. The drop rates for act 3 are just that low and that discouraging. Once my barb hits level 60, I'm probably going to drop D3 immediately.
At least you got to experience farming act 3 with your herp derp wizard or DH. What about the 200 hour barb who endlessly grinded act 1 just to not die to act 2 elites? Grinding in a place where you can't progress with the items you find and instead collect every gold that drops and sell decent ilvl 62 items for micro transactions.
Sounds like the rich are bitching. Sorry but people didn't find shit in d2 like you did with 20% drop rates pre 1.03. And lol at all the people who said there was longevity in d2 because grinding to lvl 99 meant something. What bullshit, get real people.
On June 22 2012 05:26 Lokian wrote: Diablo 3 is missing a big part of its release.. PVP. So before you question the longevity of the game, think about what PVP can bring to the table. It will be out this summer, so hold your horses and hold your horns for a bit longer.
Even though this patch is suppose to make transitioning easier... all the good gear to do inferno act 3/4 still is unobtainable without AH. I have about 5mill worth of gear I got from act 2. Going to act 3 I have to invest 5mil into one piece of gear. I don't farm gold. I don't want to monitor the AH and try my luck at reselling. I just want to bash monsters and be able to use the gear I get from them at least 1/10 of the time. Blizzard needs to incorporate something so that you don't need to rely on the AH. Say, make a new set of gear that binds to your account. These items are rare. You can't trade away /sell on the auction house, and can't repair,.. dropping these items would simply make it dissappear or only visible to you?
Wtf? ilvl 63 drops in act 1 which means the gear is obtainable. If you don't want to grind and don't want to use the AH than just quit playing the game.
I do grind, but in inferno, there's only one type of gear. vit/all resist, and certain extras. i've been farming act 2 and the drop rates are better and ilevel 63 items are there. but to get the right one the chances are slim. I don't know how many affixes are there, but the sheer variety makes it so its unobtainable. Sure, you get lucky with one piece, but you need five more. I don't use the AH very often, and this is the struggle of someone that doesn't.
btw, saying that i dont want to grind, were you referring to gold grinding? i dont think not wanting to gold farm is merit to telling someone to GTFO. calm down man. no ones taking your pizza away from you
Why would I be referring to gold grinding? Grinding is all the same. You said gear is unobtainable which is far from true since that's exactly what patch 1.0.3 did - it made the gear obtainable for the people stuck on Act I and II while screwing over those in Act III and IV. And if you think there's variety in gear than you're sadly mistaken...
Your post can be summarized into a simple sentence, "I want gear handed to me without any effort."
it's funny because people don't seem to realize that it will inevitably fuck everyone over. Now that those players stuck in act1/2 can potentially farm up easier, they will just get to act 3/4 and suffer the same inefficient farming. Perhaps they won't care because they didn't know what it was before, but it's a very short term solution; cut your nose to spite your face type stuff.
dont play enough or aren't good enough to progress? Here, progression is now easier. However, the reward for your progress is now 40-66% less. Hope you're happy!
this is so true. blizzard is just putting out a band-aid solution here to appease the casuals who are whining about the difficulty/lack of drops. in a month or two people will be complaining about the exact same thing when they're in a3-4 about "waah why do I only have an 8% chance at getting an ilvl 63 item, make it prepatch where it was 20%!"
The new patch made me 120 euro richer and made me stop playing this game. (cleared all of it pre-patch including inferno diablo softcore). gg blizzard.
On June 22 2012 06:49 heishe wrote: So how are you supposed to beat ghom now? Wtihin a couple (like 30-45) of seconds he has the entire room - yes, the entire room,e xcept maybe a tiny corner full of poison that kills me in like 6 seconds even with 1200 poison resist.
It's even worse in groups where the non melee characters die instantly and he has 150% hp.
On June 22 2012 06:18 andrewlt wrote: I'm going to throw this out there. I had multiple characters kill Diablo in Hell in Diablo 2. From what I remember, I had at least 7 complete the act. I also had quite a few that I abandoned earlier. I never had any one of those characters hit level 90. It was extremely tedious. Roughly mid to high 80s was the highest I ever got.
For me, once I beat the final boss of the final difficulty of the game, the only thing keeping me coming back is character progression. It's fun getting better items to see how much more powerful my character is when I do my next run. Once the time commitment to get incrementally stronger gets too high, I just quit. It's not fun for me anymore. In Diablo 2, that meant leveling until it takes too long to get to the next level for me. It meant farming locations until it took too long to get the next item upgrade.
Diablo 3 patch 1.03, to me, was an improvement in some aspects. I didn't like them reducing guaranteed rares from 5 NV stacks on bosses from 2 to 1. I liked them giving out a guaranteed rare from champion/unique packs. But most of all, I hate how much they nerfed the drop rates in act 3/act 4. I tried a couple of 2-hour runs and am incredibly discouraged by the loot I got. My progression has just hit a brick wall.
The biggest fallacy Blizzard and its defenders is making is the assumption that people will play until they get a perfect character. They assume that if drop rates were nerfed to such a degree that people will get perfect gear in 50 years, people will actually play Diablo 3 for 50 years. People aren't. If drop rates become so low that people don't feel like they are progressing, they're going to quit playing their unfinished characters to play another game.
Right now, I'm very close to that level. Before 1.03, I was already at 200 hours. I was estimating that I would hit 400 hours before I start playing at a lot more casual level. Even if I wasn't getting a lot of upgrades through drops, I was getting enough sellable gear during my Cydaea/Azmodan runs that I could afford to buy stuff from the AH. Once the patch hit, I'm getting fewer good items and I'm seeing fewer good items listed on the AH. After 1.03, I don't feel like farming in inferno any longer. The drop rates for act 3 are just that low and that discouraging. Once my barb hits level 60, I'm probably going to drop D3 immediately.
At least you got to experience farming act 3 with your herp derp wizard or DH. What about the 200 hour barb who endlessly grinded act 1 just to not die to act 2 elites? Grinding in a place where you can't progress with the items you find and instead collect every gold that drops and sell decent ilvl 62 items for micro transactions.
Sounds like the rich are bitching. Sorry but people didn't find shit in d2 like you did with 20% drop rates pre 1.03. And lol at all the people who said there was longevity in d2 because grinding to lvl 99 meant something. What bullshit, get real people.
there is way more longevity in d2 than in d3. But the whole leveling to 99 is not the reason. It's just something extra, because once you beat diablo on hell. Guess what, when you're farming or just simply playing the game you are leveling. In d3 you are not doing anything past lvl 60 so after you beat inferno diablo there is absolutely nothing else to do, NOTHING.
On June 22 2012 05:26 Lokian wrote: Diablo 3 is missing a big part of its release.. PVP. So before you question the longevity of the game, think about what PVP can bring to the table. It will be out this summer, so hold your horses and hold your horns for a bit longer.
Even though this patch is suppose to make transitioning easier... all the good gear to do inferno act 3/4 still is unobtainable without AH. I have about 5mill worth of gear I got from act 2. Going to act 3 I have to invest 5mil into one piece of gear. I don't farm gold. I don't want to monitor the AH and try my luck at reselling. I just want to bash monsters and be able to use the gear I get from them at least 1/10 of the time. Blizzard needs to incorporate something so that you don't need to rely on the AH. Say, make a new set of gear that binds to your account. These items are rare. You can't trade away /sell on the auction house, and can't repair,.. dropping these items would simply make it dissappear or only visible to you?
Wtf? ilvl 63 drops in act 1 which means the gear is obtainable. If you don't want to grind and don't want to use the AH than just quit playing the game.
I do grind, but in inferno, there's only one type of gear. vit/all resist, and certain extras. i've been farming act 2 and the drop rates are better and ilevel 63 items are there. but to get the right one the chances are slim. I don't know how many affixes are there, but the sheer variety makes it so its unobtainable. Sure, you get lucky with one piece, but you need five more. I don't use the AH very often, and this is the struggle of someone that doesn't.
btw, saying that i dont want to grind, were you referring to gold grinding? i dont think not wanting to gold farm is merit to telling someone to GTFO. calm down man. no ones taking your pizza away from you
Why would I be referring to gold grinding? Grinding is all the same. You said gear is unobtainable which is far from true since that's exactly what patch 1.0.3 did - it made the gear obtainable for the people stuck on Act I and II while screwing over those in Act III and IV. And if you think there's variety in gear than you're sadly mistaken...
Your post can be summarized into a simple sentence, "I want gear handed to me without any effort."
it's funny because people don't seem to realize that it will inevitably fuck everyone over. Now that those players stuck in act1/2 can potentially farm up easier, they will just get to act 3/4 and suffer the same inefficient farming. Perhaps they won't care because they didn't know what it was before, but it's a very short term solution; cut your nose to spite your face type stuff.
dont play enough or aren't good enough to progress? Here, progression is now easier. However, the reward for your progress is now 40-66% less. Hope you're happy!
this is so true. blizzard is just putting out a band-aid solution here to appease the casuals who are whining about the difficulty/lack of drops. in a month or two people will be complaining about the exact same thing when they're in a3-4 about "waah why do I only have an 8% chance at getting an ilvl 63 item, make it prepatch where it was 20%!"
What makes the least amount of sense too me is that they nerfed the content as well, who cares about lvl 62 drops when you can do act 3/4 with lvl 61 gear now, only reason to play is for HUGE upgrades, and you can't do that at this point, I for one have pretty good gear that i'm not finding upgrades for under 8 mil, and since the new drop rates are like playing the lottery, something I don't do, then I have better use of my time elsewhere.
Should have added drops to act 1/act 2 without nerfing content, or nerfed content and not changed drop rates. Act 3 elite farming you can do with your eyes closed on a barb now, but you don't get anything, as someone who enjoys finding gear, selling on AH, and getting upgrades, new patch is pretty damn awful for me.
On June 22 2012 06:18 andrewlt wrote: I'm going to throw this out there. I had multiple characters kill Diablo in Hell in Diablo 2. From what I remember, I had at least 7 complete the act. I also had quite a few that I abandoned earlier. I never had any one of those characters hit level 90. It was extremely tedious. Roughly mid to high 80s was the highest I ever got.
For me, once I beat the final boss of the final difficulty of the game, the only thing keeping me coming back is character progression. It's fun getting better items to see how much more powerful my character is when I do my next run. Once the time commitment to get incrementally stronger gets too high, I just quit. It's not fun for me anymore. In Diablo 2, that meant leveling until it takes too long to get to the next level for me. It meant farming locations until it took too long to get the next item upgrade.
Diablo 3 patch 1.03, to me, was an improvement in some aspects. I didn't like them reducing guaranteed rares from 5 NV stacks on bosses from 2 to 1. I liked them giving out a guaranteed rare from champion/unique packs. But most of all, I hate how much they nerfed the drop rates in act 3/act 4. I tried a couple of 2-hour runs and am incredibly discouraged by the loot I got. My progression has just hit a brick wall.
The biggest fallacy Blizzard and its defenders is making is the assumption that people will play until they get a perfect character. They assume that if drop rates were nerfed to such a degree that people will get perfect gear in 50 years, people will actually play Diablo 3 for 50 years. People aren't. If drop rates become so low that people don't feel like they are progressing, they're going to quit playing their unfinished characters to play another game.
Right now, I'm very close to that level. Before 1.03, I was already at 200 hours. I was estimating that I would hit 400 hours before I start playing at a lot more casual level. Even if I wasn't getting a lot of upgrades through drops, I was getting enough sellable gear during my Cydaea/Azmodan runs that I could afford to buy stuff from the AH. Once the patch hit, I'm getting fewer good items and I'm seeing fewer good items listed on the AH. After 1.03, I don't feel like farming in inferno any longer. The drop rates for act 3 are just that low and that discouraging. Once my barb hits level 60, I'm probably going to drop D3 immediately.
At least you got to experience farming act 3 with your herp derp wizard or DH. What about the 200 hour barb who endlessly grinded act 1 just to not die to act 2 elites? Grinding in a place where you can't progress with the items you find and instead collect every gold that drops and sell decent ilvl 62 items for micro transactions.
Sounds like the rich are bitching. Sorry but people didn't find shit in d2 like you did with 20% drop rates pre 1.03. And lol at all the people who said there was longevity in d2 because grinding to lvl 99 meant something. What bullshit, get real people.
I beat inferno the 2nd week of release on my barbarian and have been farming act 3 even since. Don't make class balance whines because you didn't put in enough time, didn't gear properly or are bad.
The 20% drop rate is only 20% chance a rare is ilvl63, not that said rare is any good. Even at 20% ilvl63, getting a valuable rare was quite.. rare..
Also d2 had tremendous longevity because of efficient farming, something d3 didn't really have before, and certainly doesn't any longer. Not to mention the variablitiy of farming depending on what you're looking for as well as good itemization, enough good uniques to keep the carrot fresh and personal trading, selling and chat.
On June 22 2012 07:36 Kokujin wrote: I'm glad blizzard nerfed A3/4 i63 drop rates, now rare items are actually rare!
something tells me you never farmed act 3/4 before.. you realize getting something good has always been... rare? It wasn't unheard of to have 6-8 hours of runs and find nothing of value over 250k gold and that's fine. Perhaps if the itemization was actually well thought out a lower drop rate would be fine. Though a terrible itemization structure coupled with awful drop rate, is a double whammy of a bad time.
On June 22 2012 06:18 andrewlt wrote: I'm going to throw this out there. I had multiple characters kill Diablo in Hell in Diablo 2. From what I remember, I had at least 7 complete the act. I also had quite a few that I abandoned earlier. I never had any one of those characters hit level 90. It was extremely tedious. Roughly mid to high 80s was the highest I ever got.
For me, once I beat the final boss of the final difficulty of the game, the only thing keeping me coming back is character progression. It's fun getting better items to see how much more powerful my character is when I do my next run. Once the time commitment to get incrementally stronger gets too high, I just quit. It's not fun for me anymore. In Diablo 2, that meant leveling until it takes too long to get to the next level for me. It meant farming locations until it took too long to get the next item upgrade.
Diablo 3 patch 1.03, to me, was an improvement in some aspects. I didn't like them reducing guaranteed rares from 5 NV stacks on bosses from 2 to 1. I liked them giving out a guaranteed rare from champion/unique packs. But most of all, I hate how much they nerfed the drop rates in act 3/act 4. I tried a couple of 2-hour runs and am incredibly discouraged by the loot I got. My progression has just hit a brick wall.
The biggest fallacy Blizzard and its defenders is making is the assumption that people will play until they get a perfect character. They assume that if drop rates were nerfed to such a degree that people will get perfect gear in 50 years, people will actually play Diablo 3 for 50 years. People aren't. If drop rates become so low that people don't feel like they are progressing, they're going to quit playing their unfinished characters to play another game.
Right now, I'm very close to that level. Before 1.03, I was already at 200 hours. I was estimating that I would hit 400 hours before I start playing at a lot more casual level. Even if I wasn't getting a lot of upgrades through drops, I was getting enough sellable gear during my Cydaea/Azmodan runs that I could afford to buy stuff from the AH. Once the patch hit, I'm getting fewer good items and I'm seeing fewer good items listed on the AH. After 1.03, I don't feel like farming in inferno any longer. The drop rates for act 3 are just that low and that discouraging. Once my barb hits level 60, I'm probably going to drop D3 immediately.
At least you got to experience farming act 3 with your herp derp wizard or DH. What about the 200 hour barb who endlessly grinded act 1 just to not die to act 2 elites? Grinding in a place where you can't progress with the items you find and instead collect every gold that drops and sell decent ilvl 62 items for micro transactions.
Sounds like the rich are bitching. Sorry but people didn't find shit in d2 like you did with 20% drop rates pre 1.03. And lol at all the people who said there was longevity in d2 because grinding to lvl 99 meant something. What bullshit, get real people.
there is way more longevity in d2 than in d3. But the whole leveling to 99 is not the reason. It's just something extra, because once you beat diablo on hell. Guess what, when you're farming or just simply playing the game you are leveling. In d3 you are not doing anything past lvl 60 so after you beat inferno diablo there is absolutely nothing else to do, NOTHING.
Getting to level 60 is way too easy. Being max level just to get into inferno seems strange. Not to mention in D2 you could customize your skill builds (you didn't get everything at max level) and your stat builds that made each char more interesting. I remember making multiple sorcs just to play around with different stats and skill synergies, and all of them took time to get them to level 90+. Multiply this by all the chars you could play meant a steady progression of fun content. In D3 there's almost no reason to make another of the same char type since you get everything at max level, so it all basically becomes a BiS contest for items. It makes sense that when you nerf item find (which is basically what D3 has turned into) then the game just seems way less fun.
On June 22 2012 07:36 Kokujin wrote: I'm glad blizzard nerfed A3/4 i63 drop rates, now rare items are actually rare!
something tells me you never farmed act 3/4 before.. you realize getting something good has always been... rare? It wasn't unheard of to have 6-8 hours of runs and find nothing of value over 250k gold and that's fine. Perhaps if the itemization was actually well thought out a lower drop rate would be fine. Though a terrible itemization structure coupled with awful drop rate, is a double whammy of a bad time.
I think the big problem with the drop's right now are that only well itemized and rolled jewelry, 62+ armor or 63 weapons sell for any sum of money(>100k). I was farming act 3 with a monk(yes I know it's a shitty farm class,70mf ftl) both pre and post patch and the most expensive item I sold was a 870dps blue 1h. Some stuff like grants bonus experience is completely useless on 60 gear unless it goes along with the reduce level requirement affix, but at that point it's wasting 2 potential slots on non-endgame affixes
On June 22 2012 07:44 darkcloud8282 wrote: Basically in this patch, blizzard has made 1. the game way easier 2. the drops much worse 3. more expensive to play through repair costs
All three things discourage you from playing the game.
Well not really. For a casual diablo 3 player like me, I can finally play public games instead of solo. It was way too frustrating before as I was basically a meat shield, (Act 2, Hell, with Barbarian at the moment.)
Putting aside whether the drop rate nerf makes you happy or not, it's important to realize the long term effects of this change. By that I mean what's going to happen to the masses. The masses aren't farming A3/4. Dedicated players are. In fact, the masses are using their credit cards to buy items dedicated players were farming in A3/4. Thus the flooded AH/RMAH and deflation in RMAH. Dedicated players are selling, and not buying in the RMAH (they are not using their credit cards). Blizzard wants to stop the milking of the masses, because this is not a sustainable. So, let's allow the masses to farm A3/4 (nerf difficulty). But wait, then the influx of rare items will make the price level go down, and that isn't sustainable either! So, lets nerf drop rates. Now the masses will be selling to the masses, and each transaction=$1 + .15x for Blizzard (motive).
On June 22 2012 07:44 darkcloud8282 wrote: Basically in this patch, blizzard has made 1. the game way easier 2. the drops much worse 3. more expensive to play through repair costs
All three things discourage you from playing the game.
Well not really. For a casual diablo 3 player like me, I can finally play public games instead of solo. It was way too frustrating before as I was basically a meat shield, (Act 2, Hell, with Barbarian at the moment.)
Multiplayer games were fine already with the hotfix to party damage. The inferno nerf wasn't really necessary to help that.
On June 21 2012 23:48 Technique wrote: [quote] 1) Lvl 60 is much better, no unfair level advantage in pvp (well maybe not ''unfair'', but who really takes the time to lvl to 99 or even close to that?).
2) Much better with cool down, so you can't just smash the lol full hp button everytime you got yourself in a hard spot.
3) They obviously don't want people to kill 1 boss, leave game and make the next 1.
4) What's wrong with rmah? Personally i stopped using paypal long ago for obvious reasons, but i can still use it as a better ingame currency than gold and perhaps buy some blizz games with it (hopefully hots).
There are a few things you clearly don't understand here. And in diablo2 they were resolved, maybe the developers got lucky or maybe they planned it from the start but here's the deal:
1) Let me just say right away, there is no pvp in d3 so your point is already invalid but for the sake of it. Previous instalments had pvp but it was never the focus of the game. You could declare hostility versus a players above lvl 9, so it was never balanced. And blizzard said, they don't want to balance pvp so, what's the point here exactly? On top of that, the main reason why lvl 60 is horrible is because once you're at max level, you have nothing else to do. You can only try and beat the game on hardest difficulty. Okay. You can farm for gear... but why would you? In diablo 2, if you played without rushing, there is no way you could have reached 99 by the end of Hell, specifically in vanilla d2. So in the end you still had some levels ahead of you that you would just get by farming gear. Those levels gave you more stat points and more skill points and you had some higher level gear that you couldn't equip yet until you leveled up. In d3, there is none of that. You just have inferno to beat but there is really nothing to motivate you to do it, combine that with god awful item design and overall loot drop system and you really start having second thoughts. You mention, why would anyone level all the way to 99? Well, you don't have to go all the way up there but it's nice to have something else to look for after you've beaten the game, don't you think?
2) So now, instead of potion spam we have people either chain-ressing each other or just kiting elites to the checkpoint where you can res and get back in the fight immediatly. There is really nothing wrong with potion spam, because it replaces skills that give u regen or healing skills. And now you have more options: Either go with no-regen items and just chug the potions or get some regen and use that as your crutch or just put some defensive healing/lifegaining skills on your bar. Besides, the potions in d3 don't even heal 50% of your hp, in some cases that don't even heal 25%.
3) Bosses drop nothing useful if you don't have valor stacks. So now you HAVE to go out there and kill 5 elite packs before you get to do your boss. It feels like a chore not like a game. If bosses dropped good loot but then elite packs would make that loot even better, yeah I can see how people would go out of their way to hunt down mobs. And besides, what's wrong with killing the same boss over and over? Gaming is very repetitive, in starcraft you have your openings and builds that you refine and you do them over and over again... Why can't I find a way to kill diablo fast and just do that? They have these random events in the world, well how about spawning some rare bosses during those events that drop cool loot. That would encourage players to go out there and do them.
4) There is nothing wrong with rmah, I agree on this one. In d2 you could go online and buy items, no problem. rmah is just an easier ans safer way of doing so. The only problem with rmah in d3, and it's not so much the AH itself but it's that bland, uninspired, boring itemisation in the game. No item feels unique. And partially the reason for that is the whole stats-on-items system that they have gone with. That's for another discussion though
Seems like you don't understand.
1) PvP is scheduled to come out in a later patch, and they'll balance it then. PvE is their first priority. Inferno was designed to be an optional difficulty level, for players who completed the game on hell and reached level 60 and "want something more". If you think the item design of D3 is god-awful, think about the design of D2. Not much better, in fact much more terrible.
2) Have fun chain-ressing with the increased repair costs. It was an unintended exploit, and thus it got nerfed. Potion spam is just plain retarded. Now, you actually have to play cautiously and carefully consider potion usage instead of facetanking everything. Although I will agree that a higher level potion should exist, and maybe the cooldown should be reduced to 15-20s.
3) Blizzard specifically didn't want people to do endless boss runs. That's why in patch 1.03, it's equally profitable to kill a boss or an elite, although some bosses are easier to kill because their mechanics are predictable and they don't have crazy affixes.
4) AH and RMAH is good in the sense that item trading is incorporated within the game, and you don't have to visit shady websites. I don't see why you're complaining about "no item feels unique" when D2 was a total fail in that regard.
Thank you for some support MyBattleship. He clearly doesn't get it, that's fine. All i want to say that this is hack and slash game, not hack run run run run slash game. I feel like playing wow despite i have never tried it.
Inferno being a bonus for people that finished the game on HELL - you have to be kidding me, right? Until inferno the game is a tutorial to try out what skill choices you have and the real game starts on inferno. Unfortunately it also ends right where it started, because you have already reached max. level.
Stop making up bullshit about WoW, then. I have a subscription to it from day 1 of release and current D3 doesn't play like WoW at all. In fact, it's not even remotely close. You guys sound like a bunch of teenagers just hating on the cool thing to hate without really knowing anything about it.
On June 22 2012 01:48 andrewlt wrote:
On June 22 2012 01:00 Ricjames wrote:
On June 22 2012 00:43 Heh_ wrote:
On June 22 2012 00:32 myBattleship wrote:
On June 21 2012 23:48 Technique wrote: [quote] 1) Lvl 60 is much better, no unfair level advantage in pvp (well maybe not ''unfair'', but who really takes the time to lvl to 99 or even close to that?).
2) Much better with cool down, so you can't just smash the lol full hp button everytime you got yourself in a hard spot.
3) They obviously don't want people to kill 1 boss, leave game and make the next 1.
4) What's wrong with rmah? Personally i stopped using paypal long ago for obvious reasons, but i can still use it as a better ingame currency than gold and perhaps buy some blizz games with it (hopefully hots).
There are a few things you clearly don't understand here. And in diablo2 they were resolved, maybe the developers got lucky or maybe they planned it from the start but here's the deal:
1) Let me just say right away, there is no pvp in d3 so your point is already invalid but for the sake of it. Previous instalments had pvp but it was never the focus of the game. You could declare hostility versus a players above lvl 9, so it was never balanced. And blizzard said, they don't want to balance pvp so, what's the point here exactly? On top of that, the main reason why lvl 60 is horrible is because once you're at max level, you have nothing else to do. You can only try and beat the game on hardest difficulty. Okay. You can farm for gear... but why would you? In diablo 2, if you played without rushing, there is no way you could have reached 99 by the end of Hell, specifically in vanilla d2. So in the end you still had some levels ahead of you that you would just get by farming gear. Those levels gave you more stat points and more skill points and you had some higher level gear that you couldn't equip yet until you leveled up. In d3, there is none of that. You just have inferno to beat but there is really nothing to motivate you to do it, combine that with god awful item design and overall loot drop system and you really start having second thoughts. You mention, why would anyone level all the way to 99? Well, you don't have to go all the way up there but it's nice to have something else to look for after you've beaten the game, don't you think?
2) So now, instead of potion spam we have people either chain-ressing each other or just kiting elites to the checkpoint where you can res and get back in the fight immediatly. There is really nothing wrong with potion spam, because it replaces skills that give u regen or healing skills. And now you have more options: Either go with no-regen items and just chug the potions or get some regen and use that as your crutch or just put some defensive healing/lifegaining skills on your bar. Besides, the potions in d3 don't even heal 50% of your hp, in some cases that don't even heal 25%.
3) Bosses drop nothing useful if you don't have valor stacks. So now you HAVE to go out there and kill 5 elite packs before you get to do your boss. It feels like a chore not like a game. If bosses dropped good loot but then elite packs would make that loot even better, yeah I can see how people would go out of their way to hunt down mobs. And besides, what's wrong with killing the same boss over and over? Gaming is very repetitive, in starcraft you have your openings and builds that you refine and you do them over and over again... Why can't I find a way to kill diablo fast and just do that? They have these random events in the world, well how about spawning some rare bosses during those events that drop cool loot. That would encourage players to go out there and do them.
4) There is nothing wrong with rmah, I agree on this one. In d2 you could go online and buy items, no problem. rmah is just an easier ans safer way of doing so. The only problem with rmah in d3, and it's not so much the AH itself but it's that bland, uninspired, boring itemisation in the game. No item feels unique. And partially the reason for that is the whole stats-on-items system that they have gone with. That's for another discussion though
Seems like you don't understand.
1) PvP is scheduled to come out in a later patch, and they'll balance it then. PvE is their first priority. Inferno was designed to be an optional difficulty level, for players who completed the game on hell and reached level 60 and "want something more". If you think the item design of D3 is god-awful, think about the design of D2. Not much better, in fact much more terrible.
2) Have fun chain-ressing with the increased repair costs. It was an unintended exploit, and thus it got nerfed. Potion spam is just plain retarded. Now, you actually have to play cautiously and carefully consider potion usage instead of facetanking everything. Although I will agree that a higher level potion should exist, and maybe the cooldown should be reduced to 15-20s.
3) Blizzard specifically didn't want people to do endless boss runs. That's why in patch 1.03, it's equally profitable to kill a boss or an elite, although some bosses are easier to kill because their mechanics are predictable and they don't have crazy affixes.
4) AH and RMAH is good in the sense that item trading is incorporated within the game, and you don't have to visit shady websites. I don't see why you're complaining about "no item feels unique" when D2 was a total fail in that regard.
Thank you for some support MyBattleship. He clearly doesn't get it, that's fine. All i want to say that this is hack and slash game, not hack run run run run slash game. I feel like playing wow despite i have never tried it.
Inferno being a bonus for people that finished the game on HELL - you have to be kidding me, right? Until inferno the game is a tutorial to try out what skill choices you have and the real game starts on inferno. Unfortunately it also ends right where it started, because you have already reached max. level.
Stop making up bullshit about WoW, then. I have a subscription to it from day 1 of release and current D3 doesn't play like WoW at all. In fact, it's not even remotely close. You guys sound like a bunch of teenagers just hating on the cool thing to hate without really knowing anything about it.
I have played WoW for a long time and while I can confirm that WoW and d3 play differently there are some obvious similarities ranging from minor details to the philosophy behind certain decisions.
A couple examples of minor details: - You can't just save & exit, unless you're in town. You have to wait for about 10 seconds before your game ends. In d2 you could save and exit anywhere in the world. Is this a big issue? Probably not, but it's what world of warcraft uses as a model. - You can't really put another skill on your skillbar midcombat or out there in the wilderness. In WoW you have to talk to your trainer to respec your character. You can only find trainers in town. In d3 you dont have to talk anyone but if you want your skills instantly available to u, you have to go to town. In d2 you could just hotkey a skill anywhere anytime. Obviously in d2 you couldn't completely change your skills (until very recently) but if you had all the skills available to you, you could hotkey them or swap them out anytime. - potions usage is exactly the same as in world of warcraft. Potions don't heal for a lot and they have a cooldown. Nothing like it was in d2. Again, is this a big issue? Maybe not, but did we really have to change it? I don't know.
As far as some of the design decisions go: - in WoW, you don't really have a boss that you can just go and farm over and over again (yes it's an MMO with a reset timer I know). What I'm getting at here is, in Wow, unless you had a instance where there is just one boss and nothing else, you would have to go and clear trash up to the boss, possibly kill some minor bosses before getting to that last boss you want to kill for some good loot. In d3 you HAVE to go out and get valor stacks before killing a boss because otherwise he doesn't drop anything useful. Obviously it's not identical, but there are threads running through both of these designs, the goal here is to give people that 30min-1hour time (d3) and 1hour-3hours (wow) time frame to work within. A siegebreaker run on my mage takes about 20 to 30 minutes (solo). And my azmodan runs took me about 30 to 40 minutes (in group of 3 or 4). On inferno obviously. - level cap. I'm not referring to level 60 cap directly, I'm just saying that the real endgame (best loot, hardest encounters) start at max level cap. But why? Why can't we level in inferno? There is nothing to look forward to, because we have already killed all the bosses 3 times by this point. We have all the skills. You can say the gear is what drives you and also the desire to complete the game. However, the gear problem is there. lvl 60 gear has item levels and they reflect it's quality. So if you have a lvl 60 500dps bow it's useless because there is a lvl 60 1000 dps bow. If that 1000dps bow required your character to be level 65, that's a different story. - item progression: Like I mentioned in my previous point. item level reflects the quality of the item so unless an item has some specific properties, unique properties, you're just looking to upgrade the item level. Bracers with 50 int and lvl requirment 60 will get replaced by bracers that give you 100 int and require that same lvl 60. But what if the bracers with 50 int had some cool additional stat to go with them? D3 has a few, but only very few items like this. Lacuni prawlers (bracers) gave you attack speed and movement speed, regular rare bracers don'tspawn with these properties so you have a choice there. But there needs to be more of these items, especially on the weapons front.
these are just a few points. There are obviously more but I think the ones I mentioned are pretty obvious. And I want to emphasize that I dont hate d3, I have close to 250 hours played on 3 different characters, 2 of which I have cleared inferno with. I've stopped playing and the main reason for that is there is nothing to do in inferno.
Not to mention that the combat mechanics, target aquisition, monster AI, world persistence, character controls and numerous other things are completely different.
Hey that's pretty cool. things you list, a lot of them were in diablo2 and they remained the same. great! But why did they borrow from WoW so many things that really had no place in a diablo game? Can you please explain to me? I don't think so. By the way, world persistence... Are you trying to tell me that a MMO is different from a single player game with multiplayer component? lol Come on now m8, please. You had to really scrape the bottom of the barrel to come up with these things.
Actually, I can tell you why. But first, please stop being so pig-headed (stubborn) and rude when discussing this.
In an interview they said that they were not trying to recreate diablo 2 or diablo 1. They were making a new game and wanted to change some things up that they thought could be done better (like potions, leveling, skill system, etc.). To sum it up: If you want to play diablo 2, go play diablo 2. Their intent was not to make diablo 2 version 2.
Will their ideas work? I think so but it's still to early to tell. By your comments I can basically tell you didn't play diablo 2 when it was first released as it basically sucked shit compared to what it was after a couple of patches, the expansion and then a couple more patches. Diablo 2, especially after normal difficulty, was ridiculously broken in terms of items and skills when it was first released and it didn't get fixed until months later.
I have played it at release and yeah it wasn't that great but it wasn't god awful. And I have over 200 hours in d3, I don't hate the game, I'm just saying it has no staying power, no longevity. The thing is, are you looking for d3 to be better or at least as good as diablo 1/2? Or are you looking for it to be just slightly better than what d2 at release was? One of their interviews mentioned that d3 had more unique (legendary) items than d2. But guess what, they only had a few more items than d2's release product. If you look at d2:LOD and the patches, d3 has like 5 or more times less items. They have 4 gems... d2 had more gems and all the runes and jewels. d2 also had more socketable items even though d3 has more items to equip. d3 is just unfinished and their "new" and "better" design decisions are in fact not better and not new. Again, I don't want to harp on their simplified stats system but, in d2 most of points usually went in to stamina/vitality (= what they call "no choice" or "no variety") and yet in d3 you don't even have a choice where you stats go. Everyone is just looking for their main damage stat and vitality (haha). There is no variety either.
I'll agree with you on the legendaries: they totally messed up in that regards. In terms of longevity, it's hard to tell yet and future patches may correct it as well (just like they did with d2; if they didn't patch d2, it wouldn't of had the longevity it has).
I wouldn't say it's horrible right now but everyone is entitled to their opinion. Good day sir.
I'm to lazy to make rebuttals to certain points (though I agree with some). To put it simply: D3 has its good and bad parts, just like every other game out there. The devs fucked up quite a lot of things during release, and guess what: many games are like that too. You can only find out so many bugs/exploits/glitches from beta testing unless you do it like Dota2 (which Blizz won't do because they don't want to reveal all the content, duh). Complain all you like. 99% of the complaints are simply ignored. If Blizzard made hotfixes to appease everyone, you're gonna end up with one trainwreck of a game that no one will like. If you're unhappy with D3, you can quit this game. Sell all your gear on the RMAH and hope to turn a profit. If you're unhappy with Blizzard, then stop buying their games. No one's forcing you to buy HotS, LotV and any D3 expansion.
While I think the game is enjoyable, fun, and worth the buy there are certain things that surprise me basically just because I've come to expect more from Blizzard. For one, the boss fights are very simplistic. When looking at WoW-boss fights (and ofcourse there's a difference here because it's easyer to make bosses for a raid of people rather then 1-4 complex) their complexity, required learning and general difficulty and entertainment level are so much higher then those of Diablo (where basically everything comes down to "dont stand in the firey bit".
Then there's one that I personally really dislike, mostly because I love comming up with builds and strategies and such, is the lack of viability of a lot of skills. Obviously not everything has been found out yet, but the fact that for almost every class there's only a handfull of really viable builds, most of which include about 3-4 overlapping "must have" skills is troubling to say the least. Blizzard is such a powerhouse when it comes to creating an interesting balance between classes, skills, units (SC) etc, I'm very surprised that there are some fairly glaring inequalities in skill/rune viability.
The last thing is the randomness of pack difficulty in Inferno. Some packs are simply nigh-impossible to beat. If you're ranged and you come across some waller-jailer-mortar-reflect damage mobs in a cave then that's pretty much good-night for you. Then again if you come across say Molten-Plagued-ExtraLife-FireChains they are generally a walk in the park. Also the type of mob that actually gets these abilities (ranging from a fallen with no abilities of itself to a teleporting, often untargettable fast flying gost) means that how hard to kill a pack is so friggin random it gets frustrating as hell.
Still, let me finish by saying that I do really enjoy D3, I just expected more from Blizzard =)
I just don't like the act 3 nerfs. To me it seems more efficient to farm act 1/2 any way I look at it. Sure, ilvl 63 items drop 4x more often, but act 1 is still so much easier and faster, and then you have to look at the %'s of the other ilvls. ilvl 62 and 61 %s are much more favorable when you clear 4x faster.
So I find that invulnerable minions packs are trivial now. With any AOE or pass through enemy attack, the yellow monster goes down extremely fast. Also negates most the damage from reflect damage as well.
I'm not actually feeling the "nerf" to the difficulty of inferno, it's more like a buff. Aside from the silly enrages on the bosses now, and the nerfs to IAS which made most people weaker, the subtle changes to the elites make them much harder despite the lowered damage. Their pathing is better (quite noticeable), their walling is much better, you cannot whittle elites down in a few tries anymore, they'll completely reset after 5 seconds of being out of combat already (this is pretty huge, unless you have the pack at your checkpoint, you'll have to start over every time you die).
Then the mortar change, for ranged you cannot max-range these mobs anymore, they'll blast you from outside the screen now, there is more room now to stay closer to them but this has obvious risks depending on the mob type and their other affixes. Frozen and arcane still hit like an absolute truck.
Couple all that with the repair costs being insane now and, gold drops nerfed.. basically if you aren't running around with 5 stack NV, you'll be bleeding gold just playing normally picking up all the gold and selling all the non-white items to vendor. A few deaths on a hard pack/boss will make you go negative again. Even the simple wear and tear when not dying is crazy. I did a test where I repaired, went into a dungeon, got hit by mortar and immediately exited out again. Went to town to heal, repaired again and it was already 100 gold. This is from 1 second of combat.
They sure did a number on inferno. Not saying it is bad btw, but quite the opposite of what I was expecting with everyone saying prepatch that it would be a "nerf" to inferno.
On June 22 2012 12:40 wintergt wrote: I'm not actually feeling the "nerf" to the difficulty of inferno, it's more like a buff. Aside from the silly enrages on the bosses now, and the nerfs to IAS which made most people weaker, the subtle changes to the elites make them much harder despite the lowered damage. Their pathing is better (quite noticeable), their walling is much better, you cannot whittle elites down in a few tries anymore, they'll completely reset after 5 seconds of being out of combat already (this is pretty huge, unless you have the pack at your checkpoint, you'll have to start over every time you die).
Then the mortar change, for ranged you cannot max-range these mobs anymore, they'll blast you from outside the screen now, there is more room now to stay closer to them but this has obvious risks depending on the mob type and their other affixes. Frozen and arcane still hit like an absolute truck.
Couple all that with the repair costs being insane now and, gold drops nerfed.. basically if you aren't running around with 5 stack NV, you'll be bleeding gold just playing normally picking up all the gold and selling all the non-white items to vendor. A few deaths on a hard pack/boss will make you go negative again. Even the simple wear and tear when not dying is crazy. I did a test where I repaired, went into a dungeon, got hit by mortar and immediately exited out again. Went to town to heal, repaired again and it was already 100 gold. This is from 1 second of combat.
They sure did a number on inferno. Not saying it is bad btw, but quite the opposite of what I was expecting with everyone saying prepatch that it would be a "nerf" to inferno.
I did notice they combo better now too ...
Like jailer and imediate desecrator ... Frozen then when it's almost exploding they vortex you ... They stuck u better too... Dont run over walls ... overall the IA seems 100x better
I've noticed the AI change as well. Specifically the wallers place them with much more purpose. Engage a waller pack in a narrow hallway and expect to be trapped super quickly. Wallers have gotten me trapped in the middle of a wide open space as well, lol. And if they have arcane or desecrator (which they always do) be prepared for some hurting.
Not mad about the change though, this kind of difficulty is better than random damage/hp increases.
Another thing I noticed, and this might just be me imagining things as a result of having to use entirely different skills now, but it seems like the way melee packs swarm (mostly noticed it on blue packs) makes them tank for each-other. I'd be kiting and burst one to low hp, and always his full hp buddies would come run in front of him to engage me, blocking me from finishing the hurt one off.
I hate wallers now, previously I used to love them, cause they walled themselves in......and evasive fire used to shoot over walls :D.
Well now that ef has been fixed, the wallers are also so much more intelligent...and the wall to the point where you cant move at all...and then they do mortar/arcane etc. it's kinda irritating. Similarly with jailers. They chain jail and then launch their mortar/arcane attacks. It's very tough to deal with certain combos in cave areas where you cant kite..specifically for dh.
The frustration is not about the difficulty, but more about the not being able to do anything to prevent whats happening (plus I play with like 350-400 lag )
Well I officially hate 1.03 now. My dad plays on my account(he is a ~50 year old with minimal gamer skills), and now that he's almost level 60, for every hour he plays I lose about 50k gold. Sad part is, he isn't even undergeared at all, he's actually that bad. How do I stop the bleeding without telling him to stop playing?.....
On June 22 2012 16:25 Amui wrote: Well I officially hate 1.03 now. My dad plays on my account(he is a ~50 year old with minimal gamer skills), and now that he's almost level 60, for every hour he plays I lose about 50k gold. Sad part is, he isn't even undergeared at all, he's actually that bad. How do I stop the bleeding without telling him to stop playing?.....
Stop caring bout some igg.
Unless he plays 10 hours a day i hardly see 50k being an issue?
On June 22 2012 15:52 dartoo wrote: I hate wallers now, previously I used to love them, cause they walled themselves in......and evasive fire used to shoot over walls :D.
Well now that ef has been fixed, the wallers are also so much more intelligent...and the wall to the point where you cant move at all...and then they do mortar/arcane etc. it's kinda irritating. Similarly with jailers. They chain jail and then launch their mortar/arcane attacks. It's very tough to deal with certain combos in cave areas where you cant kite..specifically for dh.
The frustration is not about the difficulty, but more about the not being able to do anything to prevent whats happening (plus I play with like 350-400 lag )
Don't forget that you get rewarded by item lvl 85431 KwanDao or Spatha.
one of my concerns about the game direction is that they are making sweeping changes based solely on player experience / behavior in end game inferno. i was one of those lucky dudes that had the time to camp the AH, farm gold and make steady progress in inferno before 1.03 and one thing that consistently annoyed me were the changes being made ahead of my progression due to "exploits" by players ahead of me. i remember watching a youtube video on farming the under bridge (while i was still struggling to progress through the ramparts), getting excited about making runs on it.. and when i finally reach there, the door is closed... and i find out they decided to limit the instance spawn rate and the chests in it.
now a new player starting D3 is gonna find out his magic find is not very useful regardless of difficulty, he will find white chests in place of respondent chests and he will discover that inferno is the most effective place for farming and everything else is moot and one should plvl to 60 asap. i know D2 is something like that today but i am pretty sure as hell the D2 experience was nothing like that just a month into the game.
i personally feel that blizzard has made some serious errors with the latest patch and is isolating the newer and current progressive players that are still making through content. and all this is in hopes of decreasing the effectiveness of those who have already cleared the majority of D3's content. it is not exactly a very intelligent growth model for the future.
On June 22 2012 16:25 Amui wrote: Well I officially hate 1.03 now. My dad plays on my account(he is a ~50 year old with minimal gamer skills), and now that he's almost level 60, for every hour he plays I lose about 50k gold. Sad part is, he isn't even undergeared at all, he's actually that bad. How do I stop the bleeding without telling him to stop playing?.....
buy him a fancy set of no durability loss gear with good stats as a present. think of it as an investment
Rubberbanding (and possibly other server related issues) appears to have gotten worse even though they claimed to have fixed it.
The acknowledged Act II wall is now even higher due to lower player DPS and the inflated crit/crit dmg market making it harder for people to compensate for the IAS loss (not to mention the awful mechanics in that act still).
Going along with the IAS knee-jerk nerf the devs lack of foresight is evident in that they didn't implement any kind of stat compensation for it (eg if str is highest dps stat on an item slap on +20 str after the IAS is cut in half). Also, many of the people hit hard by IAS only took it as an upgrade since they needed more dps to progress, and now they're being punished and forced to grind more just because they took what they could to try to get over that wall.
Legendary items are still frequently legendarily bad even though some options for buffing them to be attractive options would be as simple as increasing dps and guaranteeing a socket.
Belial's inconsistent hitboxes are a pain (and fine example of awful coding and design) since he'll actually aim for the player now. The enrage timer means you can't have a tanky sustain build on some classes and have to overgear the encounter even more (after taking a hit to your dps no less). Speaking of encounters Ghom is just hilarious, from what I've heard he's now basically impossible for some setups.
Apparently waller elites can occasionally dump a wall on you (as in actually on your character), making you stuck and generally guaranteeing a death if you're not a tank.
Repair costs were increased to discourage gy zerging and make death "meaningful" without addressing any of the awful mob combos that forced players to gy zerg so they wouldn't lose NV stacks or simply had to progress past the pack.
NV still needs to not disappear if you change spells because that's just stupid when you have these awful mob combos that practically require (or are much less painfully stupid when you do) a small skill swap unless you're geared to the teeth and can just burn them down.
It generally feels as if the devs barely tested the changes in this patch, if at all. They also by extension appear to be incompetent with a lack of foresight and understanding of their own game.
Act I ofc became a breeze, its the only universally accepted good change in the whole patch.
Repair costs aren't so bad if you don't die and don't get hit much either. Ask a tank or someone progressing what they think and you'll be told quite the opposite, hence all the complaints on the forums. One of the reasons for the repair cost increase was also only barely addressed with the damage reduction because the biggest difference was for Act I, where people weren't having that many issues, making it largely irrelevant for counteracting this. Act II is only "quite farmable" if you were already farming later acts and presumably significantly outgear the content now with the nerfs, but not for those who actually need the gear. The stupid mechanics in don't help.
Belial is not easier for those that need to progress past him or those with the stated tank/tanky sustain builds and skipping acts is one of the dumber things people can do. The enrage timer was completely unnecessary for an already overtuned and poorly coded encounter (inconsistent hitboxes, death after dodging, etc).
That's not preparation when one pack can have teleport mortar jailer desecrater and the next can be damage reflect extra hp waller fast vs a character that doesn't outgear the content. For example, if a DH progressing encounters the latter group and wants to switch one skill to shadow power with gloom, they lose their NV stacks. So if you want to keep the stacks, its either most likely die a few (possibly many) times and be frustrated when you get salvage fodder, skip it, or remake the game if you need to progress, which makes you lose your NV stacks anyways. There's even less reason it should be in the game when Blizzard themselves have stated they wanted various builds to be used and viable. Its just completely counter-intuitive and yet another cheap/poorly thought out gimmick put in the game, possibly to increase "difficulty." Sure if I had all ilevel 62-63 gear and a >1k dps weapon I would think its fine because I'd be able to bruteforce things down faster than they wear me out, but in reality it isn't. For the record I don't really have any problems with elites on Act II either, but that doesn't excuse the awful design and lack of response towards the issues.
Did they even change act 1 with the latest patch? Wasnt it supposed to only adress act2-4? So act 1 was a breeze before the patch and is still a breeze? ^^
Also I dont think you need NV if you're progressing. Progressing and farming are 2 completely different things. So I dont think it's a big issue if you have to respec for certain bosses / packs when progressing.
And if you're farming just skip that pack. You're supposed () to farm packs anyway so who cares if one pack blocks some random dungeon. There are 15+ other packs waiting for you. That said - skipping the pack was already better prior to the patch. Dieing 5 times on a single pack was already bad. You probably could find another pack in that timeframe and easily kill it. But I think a lot of players (me included) have a "it's there, it's hard - I want my revenge & kill it!" mentality. Who cares if it takes me 10 minutes to kill the pack thus ruining the efficiency of the run? I dont - but with the new repair costs I do now.
Edit: Imho Belial is the single best encounter in the game prior to the patch (havent played him post patch). There's nothing random in the encounter. You can avoid everything all the time (except if you lag).
The nerfs were for all acts and Act I is now pretty much a breeze for melee as well.
There's still no reason why you should lose a 5 stack of NV just because there's some fast/teleport/mortar/damage reflect or whatever pack before you and you have to switch skills to beat it without a bunch of deaths. Its ironic that this awful mechanic is in the game when they want us to diversify our builds.
You can avoid everything yes (for any boss), but he still has a stupid inconsistent hitbox and phase 2 is a pain for squishier ranged. As I said before the enrage timer also screwed up the encounter for tanky builds since they lacked the dps to down him. Single best encounter in the game is probably an elite pack (maybe soul rippers? jk jk), Belial doesn't even come close.
On June 23 2012 19:04 Ig wrote: The nerfs were for all acts and Act I is now pretty much a breeze for melee as well.
There's still no reason why you should lose a 5 stack of NV just because there's some fast/teleport/mortar/damage reflect or whatever pack before you and you have to switch skills to beat it without a bunch of deaths. Its ironic that this awful mechanic is in the game when they want us to diversify our builds.
You can avoid everything yes (for any boss), but he still has a stupid inconsistent hitbox and phase 2 is a pain for squishier ranged. As I said before the enrage timer also screwed up the encounter for tanky builds since they lacked the dps to down him. Single best encounter in the game is probably an elite pack (maybe soul rippers? jk jk), Belial doesn't even come close.
NV is supposed to give you a reward for farming. It's not meant to stop progression. If you want to progress, you progress, if you want to farm you farm. Doing both at the same time is not how diablo works unless you bought enough gear beforehand to trivialize it.
Best designed encounter IMO is post buff Ghom. VERY tight enrage timer for melee's who built tanky, impossible for most ranged without perfect play and best of all, no grace period to set up. One has to wonder who at blizzard thought this was a good idea.
On June 23 2012 19:04 Ig wrote: The nerfs were for all acts
Not true. They only changed Acts II-IV.
Cannot say with any degree of certainty but Act 1 mobs seem to die way easier (no DPS change post patch).
And Onyxia deep breaths more often after patch. Nothing was changed with act 1.
mmmmh that is actually not correct either. They did change some aspects throughout the game (the AI changes to the mobs for example, also some other changes regarding abilities (Mortar e.g.)). Nevertheless you are correct that the stated difficulty changes should only cover acts 2-4, but keep in mind that Act 1 was already easy aside from some specific champion packs, so the changes to those abilities (as i said, I don't remember the full list) might be all that was needed for that feeling. The Mortar change alone makes life much easier on my barbarian.
On June 23 2012 19:04 Ig wrote: The nerfs were for all acts
Not true. They only changed Acts II-IV.
Act I mobs definitely do less damage and seem to die quicker, though I'm not quite sure on the latter since I dumped a bunch of gold on gear and haven't checked on this with other people.
On June 23 2012 19:04 Ig wrote: The nerfs were for all acts
Not true. They only changed Acts II-IV.
Act I mobs definitely do less damage and seem to die quicker, though I'm not quite sure on the latter since I dumped a bunch of gold on gear and haven't checked on this with other people.
read the patch notes:
Damage from monsters in Acts II, III, and IV in Inferno difficulty has been reduced
Nowhere does it say Act1. They repeatedly stated that Act1 was where they wanted it to be difficulty wise, so they weren't going to touch it with 1.0.3.
On June 23 2012 19:04 Ig wrote: The nerfs were for all acts
Not true. They only changed Acts II-IV.
Act I mobs definitely do less damage and seem to die quicker, though I'm not quite sure on the latter since I dumped a bunch of gold on gear and haven't checked on this with other people.
read the patch notes:
Damage from monsters in Acts II, III, and IV in Inferno difficulty has been reduced
Nowhere does it say Act1. They repeatedly stated that Act1 was where they wanted it to be difficulty wise, so they weren't going to touch it with 1.0.3.
You realize that this wouldn't be the first time they didn't put a change in patch notes for D3 right? They also said that Belial was a wall in Act II and then gave him an enrage of all things. I'm fairly certain there was at least a small change since mobs were likely hitting for a little too much and it really does feel like the elites go down faster. When I duoed with a guy earlier (undergeared monk) I was burning elites down almost as fast as I used to soloing pre-1.03, and my gear upgrades since then don't really account for that when you factor in IAS losses.
no droprate fixes for act2+? great, no point to play for another few days. act1 is just boring and the rest is unrewarding.
Act 2 loots are pretty good. It is just that Act 3/4 loots are crap. Personally, I dont see Blizzard increase loots drop back to the pre-patch. There are plenty of people walk to Act 3/4 and just go back to act 2 to farm. Man, Blizzard makes farming tedious as crap. I already beat Inferno Diablo and now farming is like a chore.
was dicking around helping my buddy in act 3 hell. roflstomped everything and then saw my repair bill it was like 4k for playing 30 ish minutes blagh. so if i was doing normal or nightmare difficulty where gold and loot isnt a lot i'd actually lose money. seriously this repair bill thing was poorly thought out. can i not power level my buddies now? do i have to switch to some ridiculous weapon throw or run barb build just to power level my friends? i just wanna run up to shit and hack it to death but that's bad cause then i'll lose durability.
i am deeply disappoint blizz. and the worst thing is, i think the game could be a lot better if they just made a few changes............ those idiots better fucking set the repair costs to something more reasonable, like 2x what it was original. fuck having a gold sink the fact is the economy is ruined they just need to deal with it. maybe they can have ladder seasons that resets everyones gold or something. i just wanna have fun. stop nerfing my player experience just because gold farmers are ruining the RMAH and auction house.
On June 26 2012 15:31 fishjie wrote: was dicking around helping my buddy in act 3 hell. roflstomped everything and then saw my repair bill it was like 4k for playing 30 ish minutes blagh. so if i was doing normal or nightmare difficulty where gold and loot isnt a lot i'd actually lose money. seriously this repair bill thing was poorly thought out. can i not power level my buddies now? do i have to switch to some ridiculous weapon throw or run barb build just to power level my friends? i just wanna run up to shit and hack it to death but that's bad cause then i'll lose durability.
i am deeply disappoint blizz. and the worst thing is, i think the game could be a lot better if they just made a few changes............ those idiots better fucking set the repair costs to something more reasonable, like 2x what it was original. fuck having a gold sink the fact is the economy is ruined they just need to deal with it. maybe they can have ladder seasons that resets everyones gold or something. i just wanna have fun. stop nerfing my player experience just because gold farmers are ruining the RMAH and auction house.
Rejoice! Today's patch is gonna cut normal (non-death) durability wear in half. So it'll help somewhat.
no droprate fixes for act2+? great, no point to play for another few days. act1 is just boring and the rest is unrewarding.
Act 2 loots are pretty good. It is just that Act 3/4 loots are crap. Personally, I dont see Blizzard increase loots drop back to the pre-patch. There are plenty of people walk to Act 3/4 and just go back to act 2 to farm. Man, Blizzard makes farming tedious as crap. I already beat Inferno Diablo and now farming is like a chore.
why is act 3 loot crap ? I cleared all of it the other day ended up with a full page of my stack of ilvl61+ items. i would say it's not so bad. certainly better then act2.
I must be crazy. After about 2000 (closer to 2100 but I will round down) rare drops in Act 3 I have nowhere near 160 ilvl 63 drops, yet Blizzard claims the drop rates are as described.
On June 26 2012 16:48 Medrea wrote: I must be crazy. After about 2000 (closer to 2100 but I will round down) rare drops in Act 3 I have nowhere near 160 ilvl 63 drops, yet Blizzard claims the drop rates are as described.
On June 26 2012 16:48 Medrea wrote: I must be crazy. After about 2000 (closer to 2100 but I will round down) rare drops in Act 3 I have nowhere near 160 ilvl 63 drops, yet Blizzard claims the drop rates are as described.
/boggle. I don't even have half that.
did you count blues/whites?
Nope. Just rares, blues and whites don't even register in my vision anymore >.>
If I rubberband into death one more fucking time >.< I noticed getting slowed didn't teleport me anymore but damn near everything else I do does. Every minute of playtime I will rubberband atleast once. Also been stuck in an infinite rubberbanding loop twice. Anyone with ~200ms experience this after the patch? $20 more for shittier service as usual.
On June 26 2012 19:58 vol_ wrote: If I rubberband into death one more fucking time >.< I noticed getting slowed didn't teleport me anymore but damn near everything else I do does. Every minute of playtime I will rubberband atleast once. Also been stuck in an infinite rubberbanding loop twice. Anyone with ~200ms experience this after the patch? $20 more for shittier service as usual.
Ah damn that sucks, since ~ a week ago I've had near perfect latency. 200ms and maybe 2-3 very minor rubber bands an hour (excluding those caused by alt tabbing back into the game). Ping bar only once gone red once and amber twice iirc.
Rubberbanding seems to be somewhat dependant on your system. I've noticed I rubber band on my old laptop a lot more than when I'm playing on my decent desktop. Maybe once every half an hour I'll rubberband on my desktop, but every five minutes on my laptop. Pausing and unpausing seems to be the worst for me. Every time I unpause, it'll wait about five seconds and then put me back where I was when I paused. Nearly killed me countless times on HC when I pause in the middle of an elite pack engagement to gather my head.
On June 26 2012 20:51 Teliko wrote: Rubberbanding seems to be somewhat dependant on your system. I've noticed I rubber band on my old laptop a lot more than when I'm playing on my decent desktop. Maybe once every half an hour I'll rubberband on my desktop, but every five minutes on my laptop. Pausing and unpausing seems to be the worst for me. Every time I unpause, it'll wait about five seconds and then put me back where I was when I paused. Nearly killed me countless times on HC when I pause in the middle of an elite pack engagement to gather my head.
What is rubberbanding? A lag spike whilst playing diablo?
It's where you randomly jump back three or four steps, commonly after using abilities like wiz teleport or barb leap, but some people also get it just from walking around.
Edit: This guy has a pretty good collection of rubberbanding examples.
Haha Im glad someone put all that into a video. The rubber banding started when they took a lot of calculations out of the client and made them server side. Especially when they added anti-hacks to the game.
On June 26 2012 22:34 Medrea wrote: Haha Im glad someone put all that into a video. The rubber banding started when they took a lot of calculations out of the client and made them server side. Especially when they added anti-hacks to the game.
its more of like lag imo,whenever i started my 1st run of the day my latency is red and rubberbanding for few mins.
On June 26 2012 21:58 noD wrote: So by the patch notes they just released it to fix the powerleveling and 50% less wear-and-tear ... lol expected zero ....
I wasn't expecting zero, but normal wear and tear was absurd before, with old repair costs 50% would have been fine, but with repair costs what they are now it really should have been reduced 75-80% imo.
On June 26 2012 16:48 Medrea wrote: I must be crazy. After about 2000 (closer to 2100 but I will round down) rare drops in Act 3 I have nowhere near 160 ilvl 63 drops, yet Blizzard claims the drop rates are as described.
/boggle. I don't even have half that.
did you count blues/whites?
Nope. Just rares, blues and whites don't even register in my vision anymore >.>
There is your problem, you are just getting unlucky on rares. If you counted blues/whites it would be closer to the actual value.
On June 26 2012 16:48 Medrea wrote: I must be crazy. After about 2000 (closer to 2100 but I will round down) rare drops in Act 3 I have nowhere near 160 ilvl 63 drops, yet Blizzard claims the drop rates are as described.
/boggle. I don't even have half that.
did you count blues/whites?
Nope. Just rares, blues and whites don't even register in my vision anymore >.>
There is your problem, you are just getting unlucky on rares. If you counted blues/whites it would be closer to the actual value.
I disagree. 2000 of an item type should be enough to get a fairly accurate estimate of the drop rate, and if it is 8% ilvl 63, then he should have gotten ~160. (i ran the statistics, the standard deviation of ilvl63 items for 2000 total items is 12, so the 95% confidence interval is 160 +/- 24 items)
The quality of the item shouldn't matter, if 100,000 white items dropped while he was farming those 2000 rares, then ~8000 of those should have been ilvl 63, which doesnt change the statistics for the rares.
But the quality of the item does matter. It does not state rare droprate is 8% ilvl 63, it states item droprate is 8% ilvl 63. It wouldn't matter if it was a sample size of 10,000 rares because at no point are we discussing just rares.
what was the old %chance to drop iLvl63's (white, blue, yellow, etc.) in A3 and in A4, respectively? it's probably listed somewhere but I didn't see it when i did a *brief* search
On June 27 2012 01:38 serum321 wrote: But the quality of the item does matter. It does not state rare droprate is 8% ilvl 63, it states item droprate is 8% ilvl 63. It wouldn't matter if it was a sample size of 10,000 rares because at no point are we discussing just rares.
You guys obviously don't understand the math underlying this. If it's an 8% chance across all item types, then it must be 8% on all rares as well.
On June 27 2012 01:44 FallDownMarigold wrote: what was the old %chance to drop iLvl63's (white, blue, yellow, etc.) in A3 and in A4, respectively? it's probably listed somewhere but I didn't see it when i did a *brief* search
blizzard never confirmed but it seemed to be ~20-25% based on various users data collection.
So "wear and tear" durability damage is just the normal damage you take from playing vs the durability loss from dying? Or are there other types of durability damage that aren't mentioned here?
On June 27 2012 01:38 serum321 wrote: But the quality of the item does matter. It does not state rare droprate is 8% ilvl 63, it states item droprate is 8% ilvl 63. It wouldn't matter if it was a sample size of 10,000 rares because at no point are we discussing just rares.
You guys obviously don't understand the math underlying this. If it's an 8% chance across all item types, then it must be 8% on all rares as well.
Blizzard never stated that it was an 8% chance for all item qualities, just an 8% aggregate drop rate. It could be a 10% drop rate for whites, 4% for blues, and 2% for rares, and come out to a weighted 8% rate for all items.
Not all items have level 63 versions, namely the class specific armor pieces like DH cloaks. If the game rolls the type of item first and the level after that, you'd get under 8% of level 63 for this reason.
On June 27 2012 01:38 serum321 wrote: But the quality of the item does matter. It does not state rare droprate is 8% ilvl 63, it states item droprate is 8% ilvl 63. It wouldn't matter if it was a sample size of 10,000 rares because at no point are we discussing just rares.
You guys obviously don't understand the math underlying this. If it's an 8% chance across all item types, then it must be 8% on all rares as well.
Blizzard never stated that it was an 8% chance for all item qualities, just an 8% aggregate drop rate. It could be a 10% drop rate for whites, 4% for blues, and 2% for rares, and come out to a weighted 8% rate for all items.
that would be retarded though, the #s they give would have no meaning if you don't give basic assumptions (even distribution across all item types).
Yeah, as Grantiere said, it's not an 8% chance to see an ilvl 63 rare item. It's an 8% chance (1st roll) to see an ilvl 63 any quality item - you don't know the quality percentage breakdown (the 2nd roll).
On June 27 2012 01:38 serum321 wrote: But the quality of the item does matter. It does not state rare droprate is 8% ilvl 63, it states item droprate is 8% ilvl 63. It wouldn't matter if it was a sample size of 10,000 rares because at no point are we discussing just rares.
You guys obviously don't understand the math underlying this. If it's an 8% chance across all item types, then it must be 8% on all rares as well.
Blizzard never stated that it was an 8% chance for all item qualities, just an 8% aggregate drop rate. It could be a 10% drop rate for whites, 4% for blues, and 2% for rares, and come out to a weighted 8% rate for all items.
that would be retarded though, the #s they give would have no meaning if you don't give basic assumptions (even distribution across all item types).
Not to mention MF changes the ratio of white/blue/rare so it wouldn't even be a constant 8% if that were the case, unless the ilevel are somehow scaled to respond differently to MF values (ilevel 60 being more likely to be bumped up a rarity level by MF than ilevel63 etc..) but that just seems like a contrived system.
On June 27 2012 01:38 serum321 wrote: But the quality of the item does matter. It does not state rare droprate is 8% ilvl 63, it states item droprate is 8% ilvl 63. It wouldn't matter if it was a sample size of 10,000 rares because at no point are we discussing just rares.
You guys obviously don't understand the math underlying this. If it's an 8% chance across all item types, then it must be 8% on all rares as well.
Blizzard never stated that it was an 8% chance for all item qualities, just an 8% aggregate drop rate. It could be a 10% drop rate for whites, 4% for blues, and 2% for rares, and come out to a weighted 8% rate for all items.
This is not how the loot works. It works by having a base item, which has a chance of being increased in quality (this chance can be increased by magic find), just like D2. They said it in the reddit AMAA:
On June 27 2012 02:29 Two_DoWn wrote: I find it VERY hard to believe that act 3-4 had anywhere close to 20% chance to find lvl 63, let alone 25%.
there was a post from someone on this site claiming that in his experience farming inferno ponies the drops were ~50% level 60 req (to salvage into inferno mats). If this is accurate (and it's the only pre-1.03 post i've seen discussing drop rates [as opposed to a post-1.03 post discussing pre-1.03 drop rates; these are obviously colored with new information]) then a 20% drop rate would mean that over 1/3 of the ilvl 61+ drops were 63, which, frankly, makes no sense.
Nobody has a statistically significant amount of pre-patch drop data anywhere, afaik. All we have is anecdotes that ony is deep breathing more, so the old drop rate must have been at LEAST 20%. Worse is the 'LOL U WERENT IN A3 SO YOU CANT DISMISS MY EVIDENCE AS ANECDOTAL' bullshit that everyone pulls. This is functionally identical to saying someone cannot challenge your claim that you turned into a spaceship and flew to mars because you weren't there.
ed: for the record, I was farming a3/4/inferno ponies 1.03.
On June 27 2012 01:38 serum321 wrote: But the quality of the item does matter. It does not state rare droprate is 8% ilvl 63, it states item droprate is 8% ilvl 63. It wouldn't matter if it was a sample size of 10,000 rares because at no point are we discussing just rares.
You guys obviously don't understand the math underlying this. If it's an 8% chance across all item types, then it must be 8% on all rares as well.
Blizzard never stated that it was an 8% chance for all item qualities, just an 8% aggregate drop rate. It could be a 10% drop rate for whites, 4% for blues, and 2% for rares, and come out to a weighted 8% rate for all items.
This is not how the loot works. It works by having a base item, which has a chance of being increased in quality (this chance can be increased by magic find), just like D2. They said it in the reddit AMAA:
This is how I understood the loot to work as well. If it does work this way, then regardless of magic find amount, if you find 2000 rares in Act 3/4, there is a 95% confidence that between 136-184 of them are ilvl 63, and a 99.7% probability that you get between 124-196.
So the guy that claimed to farm 2000 rares and get not even half of the expected value (160/2 = 80) was either realllllly unlucky, not telling the truth/miscounting, or Blizzard is lying about the drop rates. Anyone else have data on numbers of ilvl 63's?
On June 27 2012 02:29 Two_DoWn wrote: I find it VERY hard to believe that act 3-4 had anywhere close to 20% chance to find lvl 63, let alone 25%.
you also said you love the new loot system because you can farm act1. Something leads me to believe you were never very far into the endgame.
20-25% was very real and anyone who was consistantly and efficiently farming pre-patch acts 3/4 can tell you the same.
Cuz god forbid I have fun in the game in areas I like and enjoy being rewarded for it...
i dont care at all about what you're having fun doing, congrats on having fun. I only posted because you naively dismiss the hardwork of many players that kept data logs to try and figure out the pre-patch drop rates. Blizzard quite clearly realizes they fucked up big time by fucking with the drop rates and I'm curious to see what they will do to fix it. Apparently, the 'fix' is coming later this week. I can't imagine they will reset the values to pre-patch, but it may be pretty close, we will have to wait and see!
also everyone crying about anecdotes, go read for yourselves. There are multiple sources of statistically significant sample size that pegs the drop rate pre-patch to ~20%. You can not trust those that took the tedious time to track everything, you can claim fraud, you can claim whatever you want but it's not just people saying that number because they 'felt' like it was 20% beforehand, don't be daft.
On June 27 2012 01:38 serum321 wrote: But the quality of the item does matter. It does not state rare droprate is 8% ilvl 63, it states item droprate is 8% ilvl 63. It wouldn't matter if it was a sample size of 10,000 rares because at no point are we discussing just rares.
You guys obviously don't understand the math underlying this. If it's an 8% chance across all item types, then it must be 8% on all rares as well.
Blizzard never stated that it was an 8% chance for all item qualities, just an 8% aggregate drop rate. It could be a 10% drop rate for whites, 4% for blues, and 2% for rares, and come out to a weighted 8% rate for all items.
This is not how the loot works. It works by having a base item, which has a chance of being increased in quality (this chance can be increased by magic find), just like D2. They said it in the reddit AMAA:
On June 27 2012 01:38 serum321 wrote: But the quality of the item does matter. It does not state rare droprate is 8% ilvl 63, it states item droprate is 8% ilvl 63. It wouldn't matter if it was a sample size of 10,000 rares because at no point are we discussing just rares.
You guys obviously don't understand the math underlying this. If it's an 8% chance across all item types, then it must be 8% on all rares as well.
Blizzard never stated that it was an 8% chance for all item qualities, just an 8% aggregate drop rate. It could be a 10% drop rate for whites, 4% for blues, and 2% for rares, and come out to a weighted 8% rate for all items.
This is not how the loot works. It works by having a base item, which has a chance of being increased in quality (this chance can be increased by magic find), just like D2. They said it in the reddit AMAA:
On June 27 2012 01:38 serum321 wrote: But the quality of the item does matter. It does not state rare droprate is 8% ilvl 63, it states item droprate is 8% ilvl 63. It wouldn't matter if it was a sample size of 10,000 rares because at no point are we discussing just rares.
You guys obviously don't understand the math underlying this. If it's an 8% chance across all item types, then it must be 8% on all rares as well.
Blizzard never stated that it was an 8% chance for all item qualities, just an 8% aggregate drop rate. It could be a 10% drop rate for whites, 4% for blues, and 2% for rares, and come out to a weighted 8% rate for all items.
This is not how the loot works. It works by having a base item, which has a chance of being increased in quality (this chance can be increased by magic find), just like D2. They said it in the reddit AMAA:
This is how I understood the loot to work as well. If it does work this way, then regardless of magic find amount, if you find 2000 rares in Act 3/4, there is a 95% confidence that between 136-184 of them are ilvl 63, and a 99.7% probability that you get between 124-196.
So the guy that claimed to farm 2000 rares and get not even half of the expected value (160/2 = 80) was either realllllly unlucky, not telling the truth/miscounting, or Blizzard is lying about the drop rates. Anyone else have data on numbers of ilvl 63's?
Okay, just unlucky dude then. Hurrah for variance!
On June 27 2012 02:29 Two_DoWn wrote: I find it VERY hard to believe that act 3-4 had anywhere close to 20% chance to find lvl 63, let alone 25%.
you also said you love the new loot system because you can farm act1. Something leads me to believe you were never very far into the endgame.
20-25% was very real and anyone who was consistantly and efficiently farming pre-patch acts 3/4 can tell you the same.
Cuz god forbid I have fun in the game in areas I like and enjoy being rewarded for it...
I want you to be rewarded for having fun/playing the game in act 1, I feel those changes were positive to the game, lots of people hit the brick wall that is act 2/belial, etc.
However, act 3 content is either bugged, or was nerfed. Bashiok admitted to this and says it will be addressed in the next patch(it didn't make it into this really small one this morning, which is a ton of bullshit but whatever)
Not sure if your trying to say that loot is not different, or if we are just wrong about how much there was before, but there is an issue, no matter how "big" a difference it is.
Hopefully in the long run, loot is about equal to the content. Right now act 3, is not worth it compared to act 1/2, and act 4 is never worth it, simply cause it's too short. It would be cool if act 4 had extra chance to drop uniques or something since it's so short, it would make it actually interesting place to farm(barely any elites after you get 5 stacks, if you get that many), and diablo takes forever to kill on my barb, probably different for others idk.
Anyways, i'm happy they are turning the clock back on act 3 loot, looking forward to it.
On June 27 2012 02:29 Two_DoWn wrote: I find it VERY hard to believe that act 3-4 had anywhere close to 20% chance to find lvl 63, let alone 25%.
you also said you love the new loot system because you can farm act1. Something leads me to believe you were never very far into the endgame.
20-25% was very real and anyone who was consistantly and efficiently farming pre-patch acts 3/4 can tell you the same.
And you don't see anything wrong with the people who got over the Act II wall through legit or more importantly, illegitimate means being the only ones with access to that high of a drop rate of the items that many others need to get over that wall? You sound a little mad about not being able to milk the masses anymore.
What Act 2 wall? If you wanted to, you could easily have gotten past it in minutes if that. Use the hell-inferno public game exploit, get a friend to WP you to somewhere you want to farm, or straight up purchase the waypoint from anyone in general/trade chat.
Do you mean the gear wall? Tough, all of us (more or less) got past it by playing the game, buying gear, and improving our character - much as you are right now. Hell, you have it easy. Back when I entered act2 inferno, a 800 dps 2hander sold for 10mil+ gold.
We're unhappy because what was barely baseline profitable for us (~1mil/hour) got nerfed down to about a quarter of that, when you take repairs into consideration.
I actually tried doing act 3 and I was doing it pretty good ... 1 death in 3 chapters but then I started having fear of death again and again and gone back to ez mode butcher run xD
On June 27 2012 02:29 Two_DoWn wrote: I find it VERY hard to believe that act 3-4 had anywhere close to 20% chance to find lvl 63, let alone 25%.
you also said you love the new loot system because you can farm act1. Something leads me to believe you were never very far into the endgame.
20-25% was very real and anyone who was consistantly and efficiently farming pre-patch acts 3/4 can tell you the same.
And you don't see anything wrong with the people who got over the Act II wall through legit or more importantly, illegitimate means being the only ones with access to that high of a drop rate of the items that many others need to get over that wall? You sound a little mad about not being able to milk the masses anymore.
I'm not sure what you're going on about but in general I think players that put in more time or are more highly skilled should get substantially more rewarded. I mean, what else is there?
If you weren't in act 3 pre-patch you likely; didn't put in as much time as much as those that made it, were not as skilled as those that made it or you weren't knowledgable enough about the game to appropriately build your character, use the AH, or trade with players/friends.
what skill is involved? you mean time investment. i have not gotten any better, but i was able to beat act 1 inferno. why? because i spent enough time saving up for resist/vit/armor gear so i could survive. skill has nothing to do with beating inferno because all the monsters and bosses are boring exercises in tank and spank and hoping they dont roll some bs affix combos.
On June 27 2012 08:38 fishjie wrote: what skill is involved? you mean time investment. i have not gotten any better, but i was able to beat act 1 inferno. why? because i spent enough time saving up for resist/vit/armor gear so i could survive. skill has nothing to do with beating inferno because all the monsters and bosses are boring exercises in tank and spank and hoping they dont roll some bs affix combos.
MMO mechanisms such as CC in a game like diablo is an awful idea.
its akin to playing an FPS, and then the enemy AI just freezes you in spot and kills you. if you escape that they can then fear, jail, or wall you in too. HOORAY.
You say that as if there are no cooldowns on enemy abilities that you can count, if only internally (see: kripp & krippi vs hardcore inferno diablo), or abilities that each class can use to get out of such cc if you were unable to avoid one, or abilities that each class can use to not get hit by such ccs in the first place, or the various terrain features that you can use to counter such abilities.
Sure, you can beat stuff by overgearing it, just like in WoW - heroic al'akir is a joke now, but it sure damn wasn't when it was current content, no? Just because you can waltz all over Sinestra now doesn't mean you get to call Paragon a bunch of no skill farmers.
On June 27 2012 08:53 Phael wrote: You say that as if there are no cooldowns on enemy abilities that you can count, if only internally (see: kripp & krippi vs hardcore inferno diablo), or abilities that each class can use to get out of such cc if you were unable to avoid one, or abilities that each class can use to not get hit by such ccs in the first place, or the various terrain features that you can use to counter such abilities.
Sure, you can beat stuff by overgearing it, just like in WoW - heroic al'akir is a joke now, but it sure damn wasn't when it was current content, no? Just because you can waltz all over Sinestra now doesn't mean you get to call Paragon a bunch of no skill farmers.
jailer hits with no warning and no chance to dodge it. which is fine if you have an escape ability on cooldown. but if you've already burnt it because you've wasted it on another CC ability you are SOL.
i'm OK with frozen, because you can dodge it, however when paired with bullshit like fear it becomes total bs.
so if they reworked CC such as elites can only spawn with ONE AND ONLY ONE CC ability, and such ability had a "tell" such as a startup animation or a projectile you could dodge (like frozen), then fine. waller would be fine if you could destroy the wall. but right now that's not the case.
CC is just a bad idea, they can remove it and replace it with more interesting mechanics. i'm a huge fan of arcane enchanted because it actually takes "skill" to dodge the laser beams, and you don't need good gear to do so. unless of course you are frozen/jailed/feared/walled, in which case you can't dodge and you die. because the game is not about skill because the designers are idiots who added in MMO mechanics in a freaking ACTION RPG.
TLDR: beating a challenging side scrolling game because there are difficult jumps that require imppecable timing is great. beating a challenging side scrolling game where enemies can root you unless you buy gear on the RMAH to keep you alive is an exercise in frustraiton.
zzz screwed up format on quotes a bit here so tell me if I fixed it with the wrong one...
On June 27 2012 07:56 Phael wrote: What Act 2 wall? If you wanted to, you could easily have gotten past it in minutes if that. Use the hell-inferno public game exploit, get a friend to WP you to somewhere you want to farm, or straight up purchase the waypoint from anyone in general/trade chat.
Remember what I said about illegitimate means? Anyways I got past it legit, so bugger that. Nothing excuses poor tuning and design though.
On June 27 2012 07:56 Phael wrote: Do you mean the gear wall? Tough, all of us (more or less) got past it by playing the game, buying gear, and improving our character - much as you are right now. Hell, you have it easy. Back when I entered act2 inferno, a 800 dps 2hander sold for 10mil+ gold.
There's absolutely nothing wrong with Acts I and II dropping better gear, though I do like how you basically say you got past the gear wall by playing through the game "legit" right after you say I should exploit to get past Act II. The gear wall before could be overcome through luck or farming spots that have been slowly removed, not to mention apparently overpowered skills. Either way, things are always expensive in the beginning because few people have progressed enough to supply the market. Just because you started first doesn't mean you should be able to endlessly profit.
On June 27 2012 07:56 Phael wrote: We're unhappy because what was barely baseline profitable for us (~1mil/hour) got nerfed down to about a quarter of that, when you take repairs into consideration.
And now we see the real reason you're unhappy, and lol at 1 mil/hr being "barely baseline profitable." A quarter of that is still better than what people stuck on Act II pre-1.03 could get unless they got lucky, so stop complaining just because people with less time or bad luck got a break. Maybe you should put in more time and be rewarded more!
On June 27 2012 08:15 crms wrote: I'm not sure what you're going on about but in general I think players that put in more time or are more highly skilled should get substantially more rewarded. I mean, what else is there?
There's nothing that says a player who got to Act III/IV through cheese or exploits is more skilled or put in more time and should be rewarded as such. Quite frankly, Act III pre-1.03 was pretty much a snoozefest to progress through for ranged compared with parts of Act II and Belial himself. Granted, if you put in more time you should by all means get more, but that's a completely different argument. If a players stuck on Act II Inferno because of gear spend way more time than you trying to grind gear from Act I and Act III/IV Hell they should be rewarded more or at the very least get what he needed to progress right? The problem was they would be barely rewarded at all compared to you farming Act III/IV for 1 mil/hr or more unless they got enough essence or a nice drop to sell to buy enough gear to get over the wall. It was a huge disparity and was essentially those who had played since release (or marathoned) and progressed through whatever means being able to make immense profits off those who came late, hadn't managed to progress as far and/or had bad luck on drops.
On June 27 2012 08:15 crms wrote: If you weren't in act 3 pre-patch you likely; didn't put in as much time as much as those that made it, were not as skilled as those that made it or you weren't knowledgable enough about the game to appropriately build your character, use the AH, or trade with players/friends.
Take your pick.
You're really going to pull the "not skilled enough" card on D3? I guess it took tons of skill to be able to keep using 4 second SS or exploit through public games. I suppose stacking IAS and crit dmg was the pinnacle of skill then too? Should I stuncheese too or something and then say I'm skilled? D3 is a gear game and even that part is hugely dependent on luck, so get off your high horse.
On June 27 2012 08:38 fishjie wrote: what skill is involved? you mean time investment. i have not gotten any better, but i was able to beat act 1 inferno. why? because i spent enough time saving up for resist/vit/armor gear so i could survive. skill has nothing to do with beating inferno because all the monsters and bosses are boring exercises in tank and spank and hoping they dont roll some bs affix combos.
you'd be surprised...
You mean whether or not you have the gear to bruteforce things down?
On June 27 2012 08:53 Phael wrote: You say that as if there are no cooldowns on enemy abilities that you can count, if only internally (see: kripp & krippi vs hardcore inferno diablo), or abilities that each class can use to get out of such cc if you were unable to avoid one, or abilities that each class can use to not get hit by such ccs in the first place, or the various terrain features that you can use to counter such abilities.
Sure, you can beat stuff by overgearing it, just like in WoW - heroic al'akir is a joke now, but it sure damn wasn't when it was current content, no? Just because you can waltz all over Sinestra now doesn't mean you get to call Paragon a bunch of no skill farmers.
If only there were no server issues (ironically seems worse after 1.03 server "fixes"), terrain didn't occasionally get you stuck and swings wouldn't hit after you were way out of range. Blizzard is also (not in notes but from reported in game observations) apparently randomizing encounter ability orders so its not as predictable anymore.
You raged a lot and I never said the problem had to be skill based, skill was one of the factors people might not be in act 3, not the only factor, re-read my post. You seem to blame ranged classes quite a bit and for what it's worth, I beat inferno on my barbarian during the 2nd week of the game. I farmed act 3 exclusively on my barb by tanking for my group of friends or running solo. I ended up rerolling a DH about a week prior to 1.0.3 because it was just insanely more efficient. I agree some exploitive skills let players advance faster than anticipated but even still, most players who were efficiently farming act 3 pre-patch: a) spent more time, b) were more skilled c) had more game knowledge and appropriately geared their characters for progression d) exploited until nerfed or e) some combination or all of the above.
I'm sure there are more explanations but to simply call everyone who cleared inferno quickly an exploiter or lucky is quite ignorant. Also about skill, Diablo is an easy game, especially when considering the forum we're arguing about this on is related to Starcraft one of the more challenging games, ever. However, it does take some skill, I mean there are some really bad people if you turn on streams and watch them play. Hell even if I compare all my friends that play, my girlfriend etc., believe it or not some people are mechanically bad at Diablo.
On June 27 2012 12:33 crms wrote: You raged a lot and I never said the problem had to be skill based, skill was one of the factors people might not be in act 3, not the only factor, re-read my post. You seem to blame ranged classes quite a bit and for what it's worth, I beat inferno on my barbarian during the 2nd week of the game. I farmed act 3 exclusively on my barb by tanking for my group of friends or running solo. I ended up rerolling a DH about a week prior to 1.0.3 because it was just insanely more efficient. I agree some exploitive skills let players advance faster than anticipated but even still, most players who were efficiently farming act 3 pre-patch: a) spent more time, b) were more skilled c) had more game knowledge and appropriately geared their characters for progression d) exploited until nerfed or e) some combination or all of the above.
I'm sure there are more explanations but to simply call everyone who cleared inferno quickly an exploiter or lucky is quite ignorant. Also about skill, Diablo is an easy game, especially when considering the forum we're arguing about this on is related to Starcraft one of the more challenging games, ever. However, it does take some skill, I mean there are some really bad people if you turn on streams and watch them play. Hell even if I compare all my friends that play, my girlfriend etc., believe it or not some people are mechanically bad at Diablo.
Why is everything "raging" these days? By your criteria, you sure are raging a lot too! Lets be honest though, the only people really raging are those whose profit margins were hurt by 1.03.
Skill wasn't a factor at all in why some people couldn't make it to Act III, it was poor tuning and insufficient gear (drops). I didn't and don't blame ranged classes, considering I am one; its just that the cheap, lazy difficulty inflation through high damage along with some frustrating mob combos are more punishing for melee. While my monk friend was grinding gear for resistances and vit, I was going glass cannon and clearing everything but damage reflect (its what I get for not running shadow power gloom). If you beat it on your barb week two good for you, I didn't even get the game until week four so I guess I missed out.
Now its my turn to ask, did you read my post? I didn't call everyone who advanced to Act III exploiters and/or lucky (I certainly did for some), but I did state they were not necessarily more skilled or had more game knowledge. However, they most certainly did spend more time and were more persistent, probably had better luck on drops to get "sufficient" gear (more time goes into this too), and some had skills that were overpowered at the time. For player skill to be the margin with which some people cleared to Act III/IV and some didn't, the latter should never have even gotten through Hell - the actual "skill" (reaction time) requirement is that low. Class knowledge is a laughable factor to bring up because everyone's cookie cutter with little variation already. There's also grouping, which makes some things easier and some probably more difficult, but the ones it makes more difficult are probably all optional elite packs. As for bad players, there will always be baddies who don't react to plagued or whatever, but for D3 Inferno, there are only lazy mechanics, poor design and tuning, and a lot of bad luck on drops.
1mln/1h was indeed posisble, but i would say it was 600-800k per hour in Act 3 doing Azmodan runs. It is now nerfed at least 3 times, while I am sure you can farm Hell Act 3 with Gold find to get around 300k per hour (correct me if i'm wrong, I didn't try it). This sure removes any reason to farm A3 and 4, unless you can roflstomp everything there on the run (like most of us can do in A1 atm).
An no, this is not MMO. Everyone could make DH or Wiz in 2-3days, and start using "exploits". Truth is, Wiz was able to exploit for merely few days - it's not like we could farm all weeks like that. For me, it was on the time when I was finishing Hell difficulty. Progressing Inferno was really hard for me, but I did it. In my oponion, I deserve to have access to better farm spots then Act 1 - but there is NONE now. And this SUX
On June 27 2012 17:33 DnameIN wrote: 1mln/1h was indeed posisble, but i would say it was 600-800k per hour in Act 3 doing Azmodan runs. It is now nerfed at least 3 times, while I am sure you can farm Hell Act 3 with Gold find to get around 300k per hour (correct me if i'm wrong, I didn't try it). This sure removes any reason to farm A3 and 4, unless you can roflstomp everything there on the run (like most of us can do in A1 atm).
An no, this is not MMO. Everyone could make DH or Wiz in 2-3days, and start using "exploits". Truth is, Wiz was able to exploit for merely few days - it's not like we could farm all weeks like that. For me, it was on the time when I was finishing Hell difficulty. Progressing Inferno was really hard for me, but I did it. In my oponion, I deserve to have access to better farm spots then Act 1 - but there is NONE now. And this SUX
You deserve and get access to the better drop rates in Act III/IV (being patched higher again due to negative feedback for 1.03 rates), but there is no reason ilevel 63 should only drop in Acts III/IV. Some people are unhappy because they lost their in-game cash cow, but overall the feedback from players seems fine on the better loot in earlier acts, and the drop rate was too high in Act III/IV anyways (>20% on ilevel 61-63? That doesn't sound even a little wrong to anyone?). It appears to have been quite a shock and disappointment to players that took the high rate for granted, but its still barely a taste of what people who were stuck and had bad luck on rolls were dealing with.
On June 27 2012 17:33 DnameIN wrote: 1mln/1h was indeed posisble, but i would say it was 600-800k per hour in Act 3 doing Azmodan runs. It is now nerfed at least 3 times, while I am sure you can farm Hell Act 3 with Gold find to get around 300k per hour (correct me if i'm wrong, I didn't try it). This sure removes any reason to farm A3 and 4, unless you can roflstomp everything there on the run (like most of us can do in A1 atm).
An no, this is not MMO. Everyone could make DH or Wiz in 2-3days, and start using "exploits". Truth is, Wiz was able to exploit for merely few days - it's not like we could farm all weeks like that. For me, it was on the time when I was finishing Hell difficulty. Progressing Inferno was really hard for me, but I did it. In my oponion, I deserve to have access to better farm spots then Act 1 - but there is NONE now. And this SUX
bridge runs in hell act 3 with mediocre gold equip gives you close to 200k/h, i don't think you can get up to 300k/h even with very good equip except for during a few very lucky runs. so if the same runs in inferno now give about the same amount of gold, it's still a lot better running them because in hell, every single item, without exception, is worthless. In inferno you at least have the chance to find good items. although it certainly isn't any fun to do if you're only running for the gold and don't get any more than if you were doing it in easy mode. ;P
This is what is making me give up of the game nice attribs lowest possible dps for lv 63 weapons (which is very rarely to drop ... and when it does ... )
On June 27 2012 22:27 noD wrote: This is what is making me give up of the game nice attribs lowest possible dps for lv 63 weapons (which is very rarely to drop ... and when it does ... )
what's bothering you, i don't even understand what you are trying to show us.
im tired of awesome stats weapon with lowest possible dps on level 63 ... either they increase their rate or they just make it so it wont have useless damage... Im tired of 90% of ah being bots selling weapons for 10 k since they can farm millions per day ... just that ...
On June 27 2012 23:21 noD wrote: im tired of awesome stats weapon with lowest possible dps on level 63 ... either they increase their rate or they just make it so it wont have useless damage... Im tired of 90% of ah being bots selling weapons for 10 k since they can farm millions per day ... just that ...
I assume you're referring to the crossbow...but you have it equipped...it's confusing??!
On June 27 2012 23:21 noD wrote: im tired of awesome stats weapon with lowest possible dps on level 63 ... either they increase their rate or they just make it so it wont have useless damage... Im tired of 90% of ah being bots selling weapons for 10 k since they can farm millions per day ... just that ...
I assume you're referring to the crossbow...but you have it equipped...it's confusing??!
I just equiped to show how lv 63 itens shouldnt be 200-300 damage 1h or 400-600 2h ... it's just wrong ...
On June 27 2012 17:33 DnameIN wrote: 1mln/1h was indeed posisble, but i would say it was 600-800k per hour in Act 3 doing Azmodan runs. It is now nerfed at least 3 times, while I am sure you can farm Hell Act 3 with Gold find to get around 300k per hour (correct me if i'm wrong, I didn't try it). This sure removes any reason to farm A3 and 4, unless you can roflstomp everything there on the run (like most of us can do in A1 atm).
An no, this is not MMO. Everyone could make DH or Wiz in 2-3days, and start using "exploits". Truth is, Wiz was able to exploit for merely few days - it's not like we could farm all weeks like that. For me, it was on the time when I was finishing Hell difficulty. Progressing Inferno was really hard for me, but I did it. In my oponion, I deserve to have access to better farm spots then Act 1 - but there is NONE now. And this SUX
You deserve and get access to the better drop rates in Act III/IV (being patched higher again due to negative feedback for 1.03 rates), but there is no reason ilevel 63 should only drop in Acts III/IV. Some people are unhappy because they lost their in-game cash cow, but overall the feedback from players seems fine on the better loot in earlier acts, and the drop rate was too high in Act III/IV anyways (>20% on ilevel 61-63? That doesn't sound even a little wrong to anyone?). It appears to have been quite a shock and disappointment to players that took the high rate for granted, but its still barely a taste of what people who were stuck and had bad luck on rolls were dealing with.
I like Act 1/2's drop rates in 1.03 but Act 3/4's drop rates are just plain rubbish. I have close to 50k dps post IAS nerf. I went back to Act 1 because it was so much more profitable than farming Act 3. It's not even close. Champions/uniques easily die to burst damage. There are far more convenient waypoints. The gold drops are better. There's no chance of dying unless being careless. There's fewer enemies with bs abilities. It's easier to find champion/unique packs. The areas are smaller.
It's fine to help people progress through the game. It's fine to help people become well-geared in earlier acts to progress. But there's no reason to make reasonably geared people go back because the farming is just miles better.
Thinking there is no skill in Diablo is silly and a convenient rationalization of your own ineptitude.
Sure there is infinitely less skill in it than in sc2 or even wow arena (if you think there was no skill in top 30 wow arena you're a noob, sorry) but by understanding your character, picking the right runes for your playstyle and gearing appropriately you can use good mechanics to decimate content similarly geared people claim is next to impossible.
I see posts on TL everyday where mages with 40k dps and 400 all res say they have troube in post nerf act 3 and the like. With stats like these, they can only have trouble because their character control and decision making is below average and that's all there is to it.
Just like most people never made it past 2300 rating in wow arena and most people are stuck below 1600 rating in LoL, most people aren't too good at Diablo. It's just that the game gives ample excuses why you can't do this and that due to A and B.
If you find yourself crying about anything, first contemplate on the fact you might be terrible and the ways you can improve. This is always the mentality of successful players and people in general :p
On June 27 2012 22:27 noD wrote: This is what is making me give up of the game nice attribs lowest possible dps for lv 63 weapons (which is very rarely to drop ... and when it does ... )
[IMG]]
what's bothering you, i don't even understand what you are trying to show us.
Ever tried playing a Demon Hunter whilst having a spear equipped? :p
On June 27 2012 23:54 Kickboxer wrote: Thinking there is no skill in Diablo is silly and a convenient rationalization of your own ineptitude.
Seriously man, D3's skill cap is pretty darn low compared to WoW...PvE. If you're going to call people unskilled for not liking the poor, lazy design of many things in D3, you're an idiot. I'm not saying people should be able to do x however they want, I'm saying y was poorly done by Blizzard and required more time and luck than it should while people like you cry foul and say people like me are raging (I really don't get this one) and unskilled.
On June 27 2012 23:54 Kickboxer wrote: Sure there is infinitely less skill in it than in sc2 or even wow arena (if you think there was no skill in top 30 wow arena you're a noob, sorry) but by understanding your character, picking the right runes for your playstyle and gearing appropriately you can use good mechanics to decimate content similarly geared people claim is next to impossible.
I see posts on TL everyday where mages with 40k dps and 400 all res say they have troube in post nerf act 3 and the like. With stats like these, they can only have trouble because their character control and decision making is below average and that's all there is to it.
Just like most people never made it past 2300 rating in wow arena and most people are stuck below 1600 rating in LoL, most people aren't too good at Diablo. It's just that the game gives ample excuses why you can't do this and that due to A and B.
If you find yourself crying about anything, first contemplate on the fact you might be terrible and the ways you can improve. This is always the mentality of successful players and people in general :p
Yeah its way hard to use a cookie cutter build and the pretty much standard desired stat spreads for all dps. This isn't top 30 WoW arena or top 30 GM SC2. I don't really understand why you're using the very top tier of games that have far higher skill requirements as a comparison to D3 Inferno, aside from trying to put yourself and others who simply got through earlier because they played more (or used "alternative" methods) on a pedestal. Diablo has long rewarded persistence over skill because very little of the latter has ever been required for this genre, but the former will let you push through faster (more time in) and get ahead. Maybe, just maybe some people don't like putting up with garbage that wasn't even tuned/tested before it was released and want a better polished gaming experience for all of us.
So I'm assuming you're a 2500+ (rating inflation man) WoW arena player and a 2k rated LoL player? The game has many design issues and to say there aren't cheap and cheesy mob mechanics would be flat out blind fanboy-ism.
I guess I just can't click buyout fast enough on the AH - I mean I'm not as skilled at clicking buyout.
I love 4x games like the Civ and Total War series. I love classic style JRPGs like the Persona series. I've been doing hardcore raiding in WoW for the past 7 years. I love classic CRPGs like Baldur's Gate.
Diablo, to me, is the mindless diversion to all those games. It's the game I play when my brain is fried from work and I couldn't be assed, planning 10 moves ahead in a turn-based game. The series was successful because of its simplicity and addictive gameplay. It was successful because the rewards come fast and often. Once the rewards stop coming as fast, people drop the game only to pick it up again later on and start all over again. Lose the simplicity and you lose the addictiveness. All this hardcore, elitist crap is just making the game less fun.
On June 27 2012 23:54 Kickboxer wrote: Thinking there is no skill in Diablo is silly and a convenient rationalization of your own ineptitude.
Seriously man, D3's skill cap is pretty darn low compared to WoW...PvE. If you're going to call people unskilled for not liking the poor, lazy design of many things in D3, you're an idiot. I'm not saying people should be able to do x however they want, I'm saying y was poorly done by Blizzard and required more time and luck than it should while people like you cry foul and say people like me are raging (I really don't get this one) and unskilled.
On June 27 2012 23:54 Kickboxer wrote: Sure there is infinitely less skill in it than in sc2 or even wow arena (if you think there was no skill in top 30 wow arena you're a noob, sorry) but by understanding your character, picking the right runes for your playstyle and gearing appropriately you can use good mechanics to decimate content similarly geared people claim is next to impossible.
I see posts on TL everyday where mages with 40k dps and 400 all res say they have troube in post nerf act 3 and the like. With stats like these, they can only have trouble because their character control and decision making is below average and that's all there is to it.
Just like most people never made it past 2300 rating in wow arena and most people are stuck below 1600 rating in LoL, most people aren't too good at Diablo. It's just that the game gives ample excuses why you can't do this and that due to A and B.
If you find yourself crying about anything, first contemplate on the fact you might be terrible and the ways you can improve. This is always the mentality of successful players and people in general :p
Yeah its way hard to use a cookie cutter build and the pretty much standard desired stat spreads for all dps. This isn't top 30 WoW arena or top 30 GM SC2. I don't really understand why you're using the very top tier of games that have far higher skill requirements as a comparison to D3 Inferno, aside from trying to put yourself and others who simply got through earlier because they played more (or used "alternative" methods) on a pedestal. Diablo has long rewarded persistence over skill because very little of the latter has ever been required for this genre, but the former will let you push through faster (more time in) and get ahead. Maybe, just maybe some people don't like putting up with garbage that wasn't even tuned/tested before it was released and want a better polished gaming experience for all of us.
So I'm assuming you're a 2500+ (rating inflation man) WoW arena player and a 2k rated LoL player? The game has many design issues and to say there aren't cheap and cheesy mob mechanics would be flat out blind fanboy-ism.
I guess I just can't click buyout fast enough on the AH - I mean I'm not as skilled at clicking buyout.
I wasn't going to respond to you 'cause you seemed to be having a strange argument - skill is a clear factor that differentiates tiers of players in any game. Just because the minimum skill needed to do well in diablo is extremely low doesn't mean that it doesn't exist. You seem to be making out that skill is some godly thing that means you're an amazing player. Applying to diablo I'd say skill is tied to positioning/spacial awareness and ability/cooldown timing; you will know this when you see people fighting jailer frozen mortar packs who instead of timing their defense cooldowns to coincide with frozen + jailer they will waste it on a mortar because they failed to position properly or recognise that they need to think a bit.
On June 27 2012 23:54 Kickboxer wrote: Thinking there is no skill in Diablo is silly and a convenient rationalization of your own ineptitude.
Seriously man, D3's skill cap is pretty darn low compared to WoW...PvE. If you're going to call people unskilled for not liking the poor, lazy design of many things in D3, you're an idiot. I'm not saying people should be able to do x however they want, I'm saying y was poorly done by Blizzard and required more time and luck than it should while people like you cry foul and say people like me are raging (I really don't get this one) and unskilled.
On June 27 2012 23:54 Kickboxer wrote: Sure there is infinitely less skill in it than in sc2 or even wow arena (if you think there was no skill in top 30 wow arena you're a noob, sorry) but by understanding your character, picking the right runes for your playstyle and gearing appropriately you can use good mechanics to decimate content similarly geared people claim is next to impossible.
I see posts on TL everyday where mages with 40k dps and 400 all res say they have troube in post nerf act 3 and the like. With stats like these, they can only have trouble because their character control and decision making is below average and that's all there is to it.
Just like most people never made it past 2300 rating in wow arena and most people are stuck below 1600 rating in LoL, most people aren't too good at Diablo. It's just that the game gives ample excuses why you can't do this and that due to A and B.
If you find yourself crying about anything, first contemplate on the fact you might be terrible and the ways you can improve. This is always the mentality of successful players and people in general :p
Yeah its way hard to use a cookie cutter build and the pretty much standard desired stat spreads for all dps. This isn't top 30 WoW arena or top 30 GM SC2. I don't really understand why you're using the very top tier of games that have far higher skill requirements as a comparison to D3 Inferno, aside from trying to put yourself and others who simply got through earlier because they played more (or used "alternative" methods) on a pedestal. Diablo has long rewarded persistence over skill because very little of the latter has ever been required for this genre, but the former will let you push through faster (more time in) and get ahead. Maybe, just maybe some people don't like putting up with garbage that wasn't even tuned/tested before it was released and want a better polished gaming experience for all of us.
So I'm assuming you're a 2500+ (rating inflation man) WoW arena player and a 2k rated LoL player? The game has many design issues and to say there aren't cheap and cheesy mob mechanics would be flat out blind fanboy-ism.
I guess I just can't click buyout fast enough on the AH - I mean I'm not as skilled at clicking buyout.
I wasn't going to respond to you 'cause you seemed to be having a strange argument - skill is a clear factor that differentiates tiers of players in any game. Just because the minimum skill needed to do well in diablo is extremely low doesn't mean that it doesn't exist. You seem to be making out that skill is some godly thing that means you're an amazing player. Applying to diablo I'd say skill is tied to positioning/spacial awareness and ability/cooldown timing; you will know this when you see people fighting jailer frozen mortar packs who instead of timing their defense cooldowns to coincide with frozen + jailer they will waste it on a mortar because they failed to position properly or recognise that they need to think a bit.
There's definitely some basic reaction time, knowledge of your skills and positional awareness required, but the people touting their "skill" are putting themselves on a pedestal and acting as if the difference between them and someone stuck on Belial or perhaps even post 1.03 Ghom is a 2500 rated WoW arena player to a 1500 one, and that's just not even close to true.
On June 27 2012 23:54 Kickboxer wrote: Thinking there is no skill in Diablo is silly and a convenient rationalization of your own ineptitude.
Seriously man, D3's skill cap is pretty darn low compared to WoW...PvE. If you're going to call people unskilled for not liking the poor, lazy design of many things in D3, you're an idiot. I'm not saying people should be able to do x however they want, I'm saying y was poorly done by Blizzard and required more time and luck than it should while people like you cry foul and say people like me are raging (I really don't get this one) and unskilled.
On June 27 2012 23:54 Kickboxer wrote: Sure there is infinitely less skill in it than in sc2 or even wow arena (if you think there was no skill in top 30 wow arena you're a noob, sorry) but by understanding your character, picking the right runes for your playstyle and gearing appropriately you can use good mechanics to decimate content similarly geared people claim is next to impossible.
I see posts on TL everyday where mages with 40k dps and 400 all res say they have troube in post nerf act 3 and the like. With stats like these, they can only have trouble because their character control and decision making is below average and that's all there is to it.
Just like most people never made it past 2300 rating in wow arena and most people are stuck below 1600 rating in LoL, most people aren't too good at Diablo. It's just that the game gives ample excuses why you can't do this and that due to A and B.
If you find yourself crying about anything, first contemplate on the fact you might be terrible and the ways you can improve. This is always the mentality of successful players and people in general :p
Yeah its way hard to use a cookie cutter build and the pretty much standard desired stat spreads for all dps. This isn't top 30 WoW arena or top 30 GM SC2. I don't really understand why you're using the very top tier of games that have far higher skill requirements as a comparison to D3 Inferno, aside from trying to put yourself and others who simply got through earlier because they played more (or used "alternative" methods) on a pedestal. Diablo has long rewarded persistence over skill because very little of the latter has ever been required for this genre, but the former will let you push through faster (more time in) and get ahead. Maybe, just maybe some people don't like putting up with garbage that wasn't even tuned/tested before it was released and want a better polished gaming experience for all of us.
So I'm assuming you're a 2500+ (rating inflation man) WoW arena player and a 2k rated LoL player? The game has many design issues and to say there aren't cheap and cheesy mob mechanics would be flat out blind fanboy-ism.
I guess I just can't click buyout fast enough on the AH - I mean I'm not as skilled at clicking buyout.
I wasn't going to respond to you 'cause you seemed to be having a strange argument - skill is a clear factor that differentiates tiers of players in any game. Just because the minimum skill needed to do well in diablo is extremely low doesn't mean that it doesn't exist. You seem to be making out that skill is some godly thing that means you're an amazing player. Applying to diablo I'd say skill is tied to positioning/spacial awareness and ability/cooldown timing; you will know this when you see people fighting jailer frozen mortar packs who instead of timing their defense cooldowns to coincide with frozen + jailer they will waste it on a mortar because they failed to position properly or recognise that they need to think a bit.
There's definitely some basic reaction time, knowledge of your skills and positional awareness required, but the people touting their "skill" are putting themselves on a pedestal and acting as if the difference between them and someone stuck on Belial or perhaps even post 1.03 Ghom is a 2500 rated WoW arena player to a 1500 one, and that's just not even close to true.
I had pretty damn good gear as a barb that I had grinded for quite awhile for and didn't beat the game pre 1.03, plenty of ppl with slightly worse gear than me were farming act 3/4 and had beaten diablo. I was JUST starting farming act 3, 4-5 days before the patch(day after Tyreal nerf I believe).. I also had quite a lot of time invested in the game. It was really rewarding for me to farm act 3, I had spent all that time effort to get there and it was paying off.
Believe it or not, I do think ppl are better than me at this game, just like ppl are better than me at Starcraft, and better than me at LoL.. etc.. I mean shit, krip/krippi beat hardcore inferno pre patch by grinding away and playing smart/cautiously/precisely and methodically... Are you saying they are on same skill level as me? I have pretty good internet but I really really doubt I can go beat HC right now, using same tricks/methods they did, even with loot in act 1/2 and content nerf(lets ignore belial ghom enrage for now)
Here's how I understand it.. They buffed drops act 1/act 2 to help ppl hitting the "wall"(I hit this very act 3 wall on my barb) at the same time nerfing everythings damage and nerfing act 3 loot.
the buffed drops in act 1 and 2 are a positive change that is good for the game, it helps players get past act 2(although i think they overnerfed the content/damage, whatever), and makes it more "fair". Having a shot at a big time item even in lower acts is cool, cause I can go play with friends in act 1 and not be finding useless loot 99% of time, it helps my friends, it helps other players its a great change.
Act 3 loot nerf is an awful change, and they have already said they are going to change it back.. I don't see how act 3 loot should be worse than act 1/2 loot ever, it just doesn't make sense. If I can kill act 3 mobs in a decent amount of time, get stacks in act 3 and kill bosses in act 3, I should be rewarded for doing so. Act 3 loot needs to scale with the difficulty of act 3.
Act 4 loot is stupid, the act is too short, and some mobs are dumb as a barb Idk why anyone would ever farm there, they need to add more content to act 4 and make it longer, or add "3% higher chance to legendary/set item" to Diablo too make it fun to farm there. 5 stacks then going and killing diablo is a pretty big time investment for no freaking rewards other than saying you did it. There are not enough elites/champs, farming spots etc compared to other acts.
Kripp was methodical, persistent, figured out a way and it paid off. The most important factor is still time and attempts made. If you do 50 normal (not HC) dry runs on a boss as practice/experimenting to prepare for a HC run, you'll definitely be better prepared than someone who did say 30. Does that necessarily mean the guy who did 50 is actually more skilled? No, it means the guy who did 50 was more persistent and was willing to put in more time for practice, and if he succeeds, good for him his time investment paid off. If a guy farms for 20 hours and gets say 4 upgrades that pushed him over a small gear wall compared to a guy who farmed for 15 and got 3 and had to go back and farm one more upgrade the day after to progress, does that mean the guy who farmed for 20 hours is more skilled? Of course not, but people are attributing their greater success from a greater time investment to themselves being "better" instead of just telling it as it is - I made more attempts and put in more time and got more out of it.
The Act III/IV nerf was indeed too big, but I don't think the original drop rates were really justified either. Act III mechanics aren't any more difficult than previous acts, its just that the mobs do more damage and have a lot more hp, though again, I'm not saying you shouldn't get something more for your trouble. You invest more time and are farther in progression than Act II so you should be rewarded accordingly, but not at a 20% base ilevel 61-63 drop rate, maybe 10% (apparently the Act IV drop rate post 1.03). However there really are too many "junk" ilevel 50ish rares dropping for Act III, at least give us junk rares we can salvage for exquisite essence.
So in other words, with more time investment into the game you get more skilled, and with skill (time) comes greater rewards, in theory.
Except you get just about the same rewards gold finding in act3 hell with minimal GF gear as you do with full MF/high end gear clearing an elite pack every three minutes without dying in act3 inferno now.
I don't give a crap comparing epeen and who's better or skilled than who, I just want to full clear act3 and not vendor 75% of my loot and salvage the other 20%, with the remaining 5% being MF/GF blue items that fetch 20k on the AH, and maybe once every two clears getting an actual item that might sell for more than 100k.
Edit - not that I'm actually farming inferno now, crafting is significantly more rewarding. So instead of Blizzard's ideal of playing the game to gain rewards, I'm repetitively clicking "craft" to seek rewards. Just about the complete opposite of Blizz's goal, which ... means it probably should be fixed (and they announced they will, so they more or less agree with us.)
Skill is the difference between player A and player B when all other factors are equal. Although Diablo is an extremely simple game the difference is still astounding. Since it is the only factor you have firm control over besides time, which unfortunately yields completely unpredictable results, anyone wishing to progress should be focused on making do with what they have.
Following cookie cutter builds and trends is the first proof a person is unable to use their own head. When it comes to mages there have been countless dumbass trends that will completely cripple your character, like using 1h + oh when you are poor, or sticking with stuff like glass cannon and force weapon instead of abilities you can actually use and control because some 100k dps broseph who rode exploits since day 1 can "melt elites" with his uber one-button archon.
If there is anything to resent about the game it's the fact that it was released with a myriad of exploits and that farming AH is infinitely more profitable than farming the actual content. But when my RL mate who spent close to 100 euro on gear and has way better stats than me cries about "unfair" act 3 and "impossible" Rakanoth, it makes me want to slap him.
On June 28 2012 07:10 Ig wrote: If you do 50 normal (not HC) dry runs on a boss as practice/experimenting to prepare for a HC run, you'll definitely be better prepared than someone who did say 30. Does that necessarily mean the guy who did 50 is actually more skilled? No, it means the guy who did 50 was more persistent and was willing to put in more time for practice, and if he succeeds, good for him his time investment paid off.
Maybe it hurts: But yes, he's more skilled. He might not be more talented - but that's a different topic.
Skill != talent. Skill is what's left in a situation where it counts.
Belial p3 pre patch is a perfect example: If you got hit by a single arm / triple arm slash or during the AoE phase: You're bad. Everything was 100% avoidable. Even the breath was 100% avoidable. People who managed to avoid shit: more skilled compared to people who died and cried. Of course certain classes (monks, DH, ..) made it easier to progress, because you didnt need to focus on certain elements due to invuls.
On June 28 2012 07:32 Phael wrote: So in other words, with more time investment into the game you get more skilled, and with skill (time) comes greater rewards, in theory.
I guess you could say it will eventually lead to greater understanding and ability to react (skill) to things, but that's not a given (sadly). If one of those baddies who has trouble on Nightmare and Hell bashed their face against it long enough they'd get to Inferno. Does that mean baddie Bob's skill improved? Not necessarily, he spent so much time that he eventually had enough RNG in his favor to progress. Skill up to the reaction time and basic class knowledge required for Inferno is pretty much a non-factor.
On June 28 2012 07:32 Phael wrote: Except you get just about the same rewards gold finding in act3 hell with minimal GF gear as you do with full MF/high end gear clearing an elite pack every three minutes without dying in act3 inferno now.
I don't give a crap comparing epeen and who's better or skilled than who, I just want to full clear act3 and not vendor 75% of my loot and salvage the other 20%, with the remaining 5% being MF/GF blue items that fetch 20k on the AH, and maybe once every two clears getting an actual item that might sell for more than 100k.
So you don't want to go through a watered down version of the pre-1.03 gear grind for anyone not up to Act III? I thought you were totally hardcore and skilled enough for this.
On June 28 2012 07:32 Phael wrote: Edit - not that I'm actually farming inferno now, crafting is significantly more rewarding. So instead of Blizzard's ideal of playing the game to gain rewards, I'm repetitively clicking "craft" to seek rewards. Just about the complete opposite of Blizz's goal, which ... means it probably should be fixed (and they announced they will, so they more or less agree with us.)
Auction house tycoon is the actual game man, you're finally doing it right! Blizzard wanted to nerf the drops and they did, but they felt they nerfed it too much. I don't think they would put those drop rates back as high as they used to be unless they really have gone completely crazy.
On June 28 2012 07:10 Ig wrote: If you do 50 normal (not HC) dry runs on a boss as practice/experimenting to prepare for a HC run, you'll definitely be better prepared than someone who did say 30. Does that necessarily mean the guy who did 50 is actually more skilled? No, it means the guy who did 50 was more persistent and was willing to put in more time for practice, and if he succeeds, good for him his time investment paid off.
Maybe it hurts: But yes, he's more skilled. He might not be more talented - but that's a different topic.
Skill != talent. Skill is what's left in a situation where it counts.
Belial p3 pre patch is a perfect example: If you got hit by a single arm / triple arm slash or during the AoE phase: You're bad. Everything was 100% avoidable. Even the breath was 100% avoidable. People who managed to avoid shit: more skilled compared to people who died and cried. Of course certain classes (monks, DH, ..) made it easier to progress, because you didnt need to focus on certain elements due to invuls.
I guess if persistence=skill now a lot more people can be considered "skilled."
I really don't get how you would think it hurts to admit that someone like Kripp may be more skilled than me, is this the next stop on the "everyone against me must be raging" train of thought or something like that? Everyone is butthurt now too I guess. I believe skill is overrated in a game like D3 not because I'm...hurt or something, but because it is. If you can't get past x just bash your head against it 20 more times or AH a few upgrades. Z boss does too much? Cheese him down or go all out dps and hope you get a bunch of nice crits to burn him down. Is it that hard for people to admit D3's skill cap is just that low and that they're really not as skilled as they like think they are?
I totally have been hit hit by smashes I dodged because I liked to cut it close, inconsistent hitbox ftw? Before you call me baddie test it, its actually quite funny now that I look back on it. Damage reduction aside, post patch he's probably "harder" because his ability sequence is random compared with his previous predictable one, players took a dps loss, and there's now a pointless enrage for tanks. Everything on every boss and even every mob is 100% avoidable, its not a very good argument because no matter how you look at it, its technically true.
On June 28 2012 07:58 Kickboxer wrote: Skill is the difference between player A and player B when all other factors are equal. Although Diablo is an extremely simple game the difference is still astounding. Since it is the only factor you have firm control over besides time, which unfortunately yields completely unpredictable results, anyone wishing to progress should be focused on making do with what they have.
Following cookie cutter builds and trends is the first proof a person is unable to use their own head. When it comes to mages there have been countless dumbass trends that will completely cripple your character, like using 1h + oh when you are poor, or sticking with stuff like glass cannon and force weapon instead of abilities you can actually use and control because some 100k dps broseph who rode exploits since day 1 can "melt elites" with his uber one-button archon.
If there is anything to resent about the game it's the fact that it was released with a myriad of exploits and that farming AH is infinitely more profitable than farming the actual content. But when my RL mate who spent close to 100 euro on gear and has way better stats than me cries about "unfair" act 3 and "impossible" Rakanoth, it makes me want to slap him.
I always follow and try cookie cutter builds in every game.It doesnt make you stupid.Instead it saves you a lot of time.For example you can make your own build order and refine it over time.But it will take you lots of time and it wont be as good as pro gamer s builds. In diablo it is similar.When I played my wiz I checked what most people played and found out venom hydra and force weapon are too good spells.I would find them myself but it would cost me a lot of wasted time and deaths to get perfect build with perfect runes gear and stats.
On June 28 2012 07:10 Ig wrote: Kripp was methodical, persistent, figured out a way and it paid off. The most important factor is still time and attempts made. If you do 50 normal (not HC) dry runs on a boss as practice/experimenting to prepare for a HC run, you'll definitely be better prepared than someone who did say 30. Does that necessarily mean the guy who did 50 is actually more skilled? No, it means the guy who did 50 was more persistent and was willing to put in more time for practice, and if he succeeds, good for him his time investment paid off. If a guy farms for 20 hours and gets say 4 upgrades that pushed him over a small gear wall compared to a guy who farmed for 15 and got 3 and had to go back and farm one more upgrade the day after to progress, does that mean the guy who farmed for 20 hours is more skilled? Of course not, but people are attributing their greater success from a greater time investment to themselves being "better" instead of just telling it as it is - I made more attempts and put in more time and got more out of it.
The Act III/IV nerf was indeed too big, but I don't think the original drop rates were really justified either. Act III mechanics aren't any more difficult than previous acts, its just that the mobs do more damage and have a lot more hp, though again, I'm not saying you shouldn't get something more for your trouble. You invest more time and are farther in progression than Act II so you should be rewarded accordingly, but not at a 20% base ilevel 61-63 drop rate, maybe 10% (apparently the Act IV drop rate post 1.03). However there really are too many "junk" ilevel 50ish rares dropping for Act III, at least give us junk rares we can salvage for exquisite essence.
There's no way 10% is justified. Act 1 is 2% for level 63 items currently with act 3 at 8%. At this rate, act 1 is so much better because mobs have roughly 1/4 the health and don't hit hard enough. Even glass cannon dhs can faceblock act 1. Not to mention act1 has smaller, densely packed areas and way more convenient waypoints.
•The drop rates for high-end items (items level 61-63) have been increased for Acts III and IV of Hell difficulty and Acts I – IV of Inferno difficulty: •The new approximate drop rates are as follows: •Hell – Act III and Act IV •iLvl 61: 9% to 13.9% •iLvl 62: 1.9% to 3.45% •iLvl 63: 0% (no change) •Inferno – Act I •iLvl 61: 17.7% to 23.9% •iLvl 62: 7.9% to 12.6% •iLvl 63: 2.0% to 4.8% •Inferno – Act II •iLvl 61: 18.6% to 23.3% •iLvl 62: 12.4% to 18.6% •iLvl 63: 4.1% to 9.3% •Inferno – Act III and Act IV •iLvl 61: 24.1% to 27.1% •iLvl 62: 16.1% to 21.7% •iLvl 63: 8.0% to 16.3%
Well the thing is that there are people out there who can actually farm act 3 at the same rate that you farm act 1 (e.g. natalya set DH), and are decked out enough to the point where the major concern is finding elite/champions rather than killing them, so downgrading to act 1 would not result in significant increase in killing speed. This in combination with the strength of high-CD skills for dealing with packs still means that act3 will be worth farming to plenty of people.
On June 29 2012 01:59 Juicyfruit wrote: Well the thing is that there are people out there who can actually farm act 3 at the same rate that you farm act 1 (e.g. natalya set DH), and are decked out enough to the point where the major concern is finding elite/champions rather than killing them, so downgrading to act 1 would not result in significant increase in killing speed. This in combination with the strength of high-CD skills for dealing with packs still means that act3 will be worth farming to plenty of people.
True, but there are extremely few people with that kind of gear. For reference, my current gear has around 48k dps without sharpshooter and I have around 150% mf. I'm clearing act 1 using either ball lightning or multishot with a ferret companion. Act 1 also has way more convenient waypoints. There's plenty of spawns that are virtually fixed. Find elite/champion packs is a lot harder in act 3.
On June 29 2012 01:59 Juicyfruit wrote: Well the thing is that there are people out there who can actually farm act 3 at the same rate that you farm act 1 (e.g. natalya set DH), and are decked out enough to the point where the major concern is finding elite/champions rather than killing them, so downgrading to act 1 would not result in significant increase in killing speed. This in combination with the strength of high-CD skills for dealing with packs still means that act3 will be worth farming to plenty of people.
True, but there are extremely few people with that kind of gear. For reference, my current gear has around 48k dps without sharpshooter and I have around 150% mf. I'm clearing act 1 using either ball lightning or multishot with a ferret companion. Act 1 also has way more convenient waypoints. There's plenty of spawns that are virtually fixed. Find elite/champion packs is a lot harder in act 3.
Hard-farming act 3 is meant for those extremely well-geared people then, which makes a whole lot of sense.
On June 29 2012 01:59 Juicyfruit wrote: Well the thing is that there are people out there who can actually farm act 3 at the same rate that you farm act 1 (e.g. natalya set DH), and are decked out enough to the point where the major concern is finding elite/champions rather than killing them, so downgrading to act 1 would not result in significant increase in killing speed. This in combination with the strength of high-CD skills for dealing with packs still means that act3 will be worth farming to plenty of people.
True, but there are extremely few people with that kind of gear. For reference, my current gear has around 48k dps without sharpshooter and I have around 150% mf. I'm clearing act 1 using either ball lightning or multishot with a ferret companion. Act 1 also has way more convenient waypoints. There's plenty of spawns that are virtually fixed. Find elite/champion packs is a lot harder in act 3.
Hard-farming act 3 is meant for those extremely well-geared people then, which makes a whole lot of sense.
Of course, there has to be a carrot for people to stay interested in the game, and generally that is done by giving higher skilled/geared players better rewards. Don't tell me you're in favor of giving higher drop rates in act1 vs act4 ... socialism never works well in a game.
I'm gratified that Blizz decided to revert the ilvl 63 drop rates back to their original (or close enough) values. Hopefully they can do something equally appealing to the MF swap conundrum.
On June 29 2012 01:59 Juicyfruit wrote: Well the thing is that there are people out there who can actually farm act 3 at the same rate that you farm act 1 (e.g. natalya set DH), and are decked out enough to the point where the major concern is finding elite/champions rather than killing them, so downgrading to act 1 would not result in significant increase in killing speed. This in combination with the strength of high-CD skills for dealing with packs still means that act3 will be worth farming to plenty of people.
True, but there are extremely few people with that kind of gear. For reference, my current gear has around 48k dps without sharpshooter and I have around 150% mf. I'm clearing act 1 using either ball lightning or multishot with a ferret companion. Act 1 also has way more convenient waypoints. There's plenty of spawns that are virtually fixed. Find elite/champion packs is a lot harder in act 3.
Hard-farming act 3 is meant for those extremely well-geared people then, which makes a whole lot of sense.
Spread more of the wealth to the...rich?
Better geared people have spent more time farming, obviously they deserve better rewards if they continue to farm at higher content. Unless you're referring to people who buy their gear from the RMAH, which isn't even worth discussing.
On June 29 2012 03:36 Phael wrote: Of course, there has to be a carrot for people to stay interested in the game, and generally that is done by giving higher skilled/geared players better rewards. Don't tell me you're in favor of giving higher drop rates in act1 vs act4 ... socialism never works well in a game.
I'm gratified that Blizz decided to revert the ilvl 63 drop rates back to their original (or close enough) values. Hopefully they can do something equally appealing to the MF swap conundrum.
2-4% base is not socialism in this game, its finally giving those not as progressed a carrot.
Act III/IV did not have actual lower rates than Act I/II, they were just reduced so much that the people farming it all day for 800k->1 mil/hr or more were shocked and dismayed that they weren't making that much anymore. They still got more and better gear, but apparently a taste of lower act farming was too much for them. Reverting to the original rates would be on par with catering to the "casuals" who weren't actually casuals in WoW. They're caving in too much to a new group of whiners, players coddled and spoiled by high drop rates compared to the ones who were actually going through a real gear grind in lower acts.
The stupid high rates in Act III/IV created the scenario where the gear grind gives maximum reward and minimum frustration to people who don't even need the gear pre-1.03, and this reward was all gold and blizzbucks/cash. Some of these people are the ones complaining that others now have a chance to get the same quality items in Act I/II. If this was actually about a carrot, it would be chances to get more set pieces or finally a legendary fix to go along with it and increased rates for those in Act III/IV, but it isn't. This is all about profit and you know it. This is bad for long term gameplay and the survivability of the game. This is people who used to get a whole cake unhappy that they now only get a bigger slice than others, and some of them are angry that post-1.03 others even get a slice of the cake.
For the record I agree with some increase to Act III/IV rates, but not to the original rates.
On June 29 2012 01:59 Juicyfruit wrote: Well the thing is that there are people out there who can actually farm act 3 at the same rate that you farm act 1 (e.g. natalya set DH), and are decked out enough to the point where the major concern is finding elite/champions rather than killing them, so downgrading to act 1 would not result in significant increase in killing speed. This in combination with the strength of high-CD skills for dealing with packs still means that act3 will be worth farming to plenty of people.
True, but there are extremely few people with that kind of gear. For reference, my current gear has around 48k dps without sharpshooter and I have around 150% mf. I'm clearing act 1 using either ball lightning or multishot with a ferret companion. Act 1 also has way more convenient waypoints. There's plenty of spawns that are virtually fixed. Find elite/champion packs is a lot harder in act 3.
Hard-farming act 3 is meant for those extremely well-geared people then, which makes a whole lot of sense.
Spread more of the wealth to the...rich?
Better geared people have spent more time farming, obviously they deserve better rewards if they continue to farm at higher content. Unless you're referring to people who buy their gear from the RMAH, which isn't even worth discussing.
Or exploited, or duped/botted, or got through when things were arguably easier, or they simply started earlier. You still get better rewards, rewards you don't even need except for profit.
*edit* Act III besides difficulty inflation with more hp/damage and now lolghom is easier than Act II, so why should you get rewarded more for something...easier again? I mean yeah you should get more for progress, but something like 5-10x more?
I don't know about you (or others), but I personally spend the money and gold I make grinding act 3/4 and put it into the system to buy more gear. I like min/maxing /shrug. While I have sold stuff on the RMAH, I have bought stuff as well, so after the dust has settled my balance is only a couple hundred positive.
And my gear is far, FAR from perfect. Just looking at the possible affixes on gear, I could have a possible total of 3900 intellect on my gear, for example, and I'm only rolling with 2k. Other aspects that I've concentrated on are 75% of the highest possible total. Essentially, I can see being able to get up to 500k dps with near perfect gear, and I'm only rolling with 100 atm, so I am most definitely eager to improve my own gear.
Why do you think carrot = legendary/set gear? I would prefer seeing more of them but I don't really care much since they are 95% trash anyway.
As for pre-1.03 drop levels, while it sucked to be stuck in act1 or 2, that's more or less what the game is about. Sooner or later you farm enough gold, get good enough at the game, or spend enough real money to progress to act 3/4 where you'll enjoy the fruits of your labor. It wasn't anywhere near a 5-10x discrepancy like you mentioned - 1 mil/hr farming was the norm for farming act3 inferno, but you could also get anywhere from 300-500k/hr farming act3 hell depending on the quality of your gold find gear.
lg's a troll, he seems to think anyone who was in act 3/4 pre-patch, exploited, cheated, or had miracle RNG. When in fact most players farming act 3/4 simply put in more time or were simply better at the game. This is a concept he refuses to accept for some bizarre reason. You'd be wise to just stop responding to him.
The new rates seem pretty good. Now all they have to do is completely redo the items to make them interesting as diablo 2s.
On June 29 2012 01:59 Juicyfruit wrote: Well the thing is that there are people out there who can actually farm act 3 at the same rate that you farm act 1 (e.g. natalya set DH), and are decked out enough to the point where the major concern is finding elite/champions rather than killing them, so downgrading to act 1 would not result in significant increase in killing speed. This in combination with the strength of high-CD skills for dealing with packs still means that act3 will be worth farming to plenty of people.
True, but there are extremely few people with that kind of gear. For reference, my current gear has around 48k dps without sharpshooter and I have around 150% mf. I'm clearing act 1 using either ball lightning or multishot with a ferret companion. Act 1 also has way more convenient waypoints. There's plenty of spawns that are virtually fixed. Find elite/champion packs is a lot harder in act 3.
Hard-farming act 3 is meant for those extremely well-geared people then, which makes a whole lot of sense.
I don't know about that. My gear was enough to farm act 3 before patch 1.03. I could do Cydaea/Azmodan runs in 30 minutes easily. The reason my dps is only 48k post IAS nerf was that I focused on getting some mf and resist all with my regular gear instead of going full glass cannon with a separate mf gear for swapping.
Act 1 elites and champions have roughly 25% the hp of their act 3 counterparts. It's just odd to me that act 1 is still the most rewarding act for my gear level when I already have way more dps and resist all than what is needed to actually beat act 4.
On June 29 2012 01:59 Juicyfruit wrote: Well the thing is that there are people out there who can actually farm act 3 at the same rate that you farm act 1 (e.g. natalya set DH), and are decked out enough to the point where the major concern is finding elite/champions rather than killing them, so downgrading to act 1 would not result in significant increase in killing speed. This in combination with the strength of high-CD skills for dealing with packs still means that act3 will be worth farming to plenty of people.
True, but there are extremely few people with that kind of gear. For reference, my current gear has around 48k dps without sharpshooter and I have around 150% mf. I'm clearing act 1 using either ball lightning or multishot with a ferret companion. Act 1 also has way more convenient waypoints. There's plenty of spawns that are virtually fixed. Find elite/champion packs is a lot harder in act 3.
Hard-farming act 3 is meant for those extremely well-geared people then, which makes a whole lot of sense.
I don't know about that. My gear was enough to farm act 3 before patch 1.03. I could do Cydaea/Azmodan runs in 30 minutes easily. The reason my dps is only 48k post IAS nerf was that I focused on getting some mf and resist all with my regular gear instead of going full glass cannon with a separate mf gear for swapping.
Act 1 elites and champions have roughly 25% the hp of their act 3 counterparts. It's just odd to me that act 1 is still the most rewarding act for my gear level when I already have way more dps and resist all than what is needed to actually beat act 4.
Having a quarter of the HP and roughly 4x the droprate seems completely fair to me. Again, to some people, the difference in killing act 1 and act 3 mobs would be the difference between taking 3 seconds and taking 12 seconds, so the real timesink is finding the elite monsters. Also, if you consider people who can easily clear packs using 2 high-CD skills like WoTB + EQ 2H barb, it makes a lot of sense for them to go for the highest difficulty mobs that they can burst, since their power during downtime is significantly weaker anyways.
Difference between being able to farm act 3 and being able to do it at a worthwhile speed is different. If your clearing act 1 4x faster than you are clearing act 3, then i'd consider you nowhere near geared enough to "hard-farm" act 3.
On June 29 2012 06:04 crms wrote: lg's a troll, he seems to think anyone who was in act 3/4 pre-patch, exploited, cheated, or had miracle RNG. When in fact most players farming act 3/4 simply put in more time or were simply better at the game. This is a concept he refuses to accept for some bizarre reason. You'd be wise to just stop responding to him.
The new rates seem pretty good. Now all they have to do is completely redo the items to make them interesting as diablo 2s.
To keep in the spirit of the people who seem to think I'm mad and butthurt: You sound mad and butthurt, what gives bro?
I find it sad that after all the times I had to specify I did not think everyone who was in Act III/IV pre-1.03 (a patch that arguably made it more difficult for some to get to these acts) was a lying cheating hacking duping botting exploiting bastard with the luck of the Irish, you will still go out and call me a troll. Is this really all you have on me? I can believe Paragon and Kripp are better and more dedicated than me, you just can't believe that you might have gotten lucky and really aren't that good. Make sure to wash your face with antibacterial soap after you remove it from your rectum, wouldn't want you to get sick would we?
The previous and new patch notes provide numbers that directly counter the ridiculous claims of Act I/II having higher drop rates than Act III/IV, but I'm glad they've effectively doubled them for everyone. I'm just waiting to see if people will resume whining when the Act I/II farmers buy fewer items on the AH because they too can get more good drops. I've been told that the 1 mil/hr baseline from Act III pre-1.03 was barely profitable and that the patch quartered their income, so I guess 500k/hr in this new patch is going to be completely unprofitable? Oh wait with the possibility of market deflation it might even be less than that, now what will become of this? I guess I can wait and see!
On June 29 2012 19:30 Swilvan wrote: I did a search and I couldn't find a topic/post about the bug with asheara's boots, but they still do not give attack speed -_-
they said legendary items with broken attack speed will remain broken.
June 28 Items The drop rates for high-end items (items level 61-63) have been increased for Acts III and IV of Hell difficulty and Acts I – IV of Inferno difficulty:
The new approximate drop rates are as follows:
Hell – Act III and Act IV iLvl 61: 13.9%, up from 9% iLvl 62: 3.45%, up from 1.9% iLvl 63: 0% (no change)
Inferno – Act I iLvl 61: 23.9%, up from 17.7% iLvl 62: 12.6%, up from 7.9% iLvl 63: 4.8%, up from 2.0%
Inferno – Act II iLvl 61: 23.3%, up from 18.6% iLvl 62: 18.6%, up from 12.4% iLvl 63: 9.3%, up from 4.1%
Inferno – Act III and Act IV iLvl 61: 27.1%, up from 24.1% iLvl 62: 21.7%, up from 16.1% iLvl 63: 16.3%, up from 8.0%
Bosses Bosses are now guaranteed to drop at least 1 Rare item for players with 4 stacks of Nephalem Valor and at least 2 Rare items for players with 5 stacks of Nephalem Valor
Bug Fixes Fixed a bug with several items that would allow those items to block pathing when dropped on the ground Fixed a crash that could sometimes occur when a player was interacting with environment objects (e.g. opening chests or clicking on a lectern) Fixed several additional game and service crashes
On June 29 2012 19:30 Swilvan wrote: I did a search and I couldn't find a topic/post about the bug with asheara's boots, but they still do not give attack speed -_-
they said legendary items with broken attack speed will remain broken.
fuck me, i forgot about that. I assume that applies to Natalya's Mark too ? I was wondering why i didn't gain as much dps as i would have thought i would after buying a 20m ring, lol
On June 29 2012 19:30 Swilvan wrote: I did a search and I couldn't find a topic/post about the bug with asheara's boots, but they still do not give attack speed -_-
they said legendary items with broken attack speed will remain broken.
fuck me, i forgot about that. I assume that applies to Natalya's Mark too ? I was wondering why i didn't gain as much dps as i would have thought i would after buying a 20m ring, lol
I wouldn't complain toooo hard since the ring is worth it regardless because the natalya set is super broken
Some legendary increased attack speed affixes function correctly even pre-1.03. The trick is to look at the wording:
"Increases attack speed by x%" = broken "Attack speed increased by x%" = working
Natalya's mark is one of those that were always working (at least I didn't see any broken ones in the couple hundred I browsed when I was shopping for one a few weeks ago.)
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I'm just waiting to see if people will resume whining when the Act I/II farmers buy fewer items on the AH because they too can get more good drops. I've been told that the 1 mil/hr baseline from Act III pre-1.03 was barely profitable and that the patch quartered their income, so I guess 500k/hr in this new patch is going to be completely unprofitable? Oh wait with the possibility of market deflation it might even be less than that, now what will become of this? I guess I can wait and see!
Broke out the MF set again and did a full act3 clear. Took me 2.5 hours, got ~120 rares, about 20 of which were lvl 63, and never had to vendor more than around a third of my inventory when I went back to sell. I've AH'd about a third of the stuff I found so far, and I'm up 3 mil. Probably still not as profitable as just plain crafting, but hey, lots more fun.
On June 30 2012 01:56 Phael wrote: Broke out the MF set again and did a full act3 clear. Took me 2.5 hours, got ~120 rares, about 20 of which were lvl 63, and never had to vendor more than around a third of my inventory when I went back to sell. I've AH'd about a third of the stuff I found so far, and I'm up 3 mil. Probably still not as profitable as just plain crafting, but hey, lots more fun.
Caving in to the whiners who only cared about their bottom line... I guess at least its made it clear that farming items to sell to other players is the endgame, and taking to the forums and whining if you get less (still quadruple the rest) is the spoiled mentality of players in it.
I get exact as much as the rest of the players - I am, after all, playing the same game. It's not as if players are auto-locked into act1 and can't go on.
Not only that, after testing out full clearing act3, specific boss runs in act3, elite runs in act1 and so on, I can honestly say that farming act1 is at -least- 75% as profitable as any run variation in act3. In the best run I could come up with in act3, I'm killing a elite pack (bosses count for 2) with 5 stacks once every 2.5 min on average. In act1, that number goes down to 1 min - basically travel time.
While you get fewer lvl 63 items (but not by a whole lot), you get more than double 61 and 62 items. Those items are still worth good gold, plus, you get to clear out whimsy at the end which is also pretty efficient.
So for a player who is geared enough to wreck act3, act1 still gives almost comparable rewards ... I'd imagine everyone who cannot reliably kill packs in act3 without dying (but who can still progress through just fine) will get better results in act1.
I'd suggest nerfing act1-2 drop rates even
And yes, farming items to sell is the endgame because as far as I'm concerned, my upgrades come through the AH and not the monsters I kill. Of all the gear I'm wearing, only one piece (pants) has been my own drop and I haven't bothered replacing it because it's passable, better gear is worth 20mil+, and pants can't spawn any dps stats anyway outside of int.
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I'm not exactly sure how you interpret a "whoops, we unintentionally halved drop rates of good gear in act3/4, here's a fix" as "caving in to whiners".
Which class are you using? Out of acts 1-3, act 2 is my most hated while playing my dh, wizard and barb. The monster abilities, specifically all the strafing (not as fixed as Blizz says) and invulnerabilities, are just plain annoying. Right now, I farm Act 1 when I'm tired from work and Act 3 when I get bored of how easy Act 1 is.
Act 1 has double the waypoints of Act 3 and there are places (fields of misery, cemetery, watch tower, festering woods, etc.) that are very small and rich in elite packs. I'm farming Cydaea/Azmodan and the keep levels mostly in Act 3. Except for the Cydaea/Azmodan run levels, it can be a pain to find elites in Act 3. Many of the levels are pretty large and the dungeons are maze-like. The battlements/stonefort/bridge levels are my next resort if I decide to play on instead of starting a new run. I still haven't figured out which of the battlefield optional dungeons are good from both a mob and layout perspective.
On June 29 2012 19:30 Swilvan wrote: I did a search and I couldn't find a topic/post about the bug with asheara's boots, but they still do not give attack speed -_-
they said legendary items with broken attack speed will remain broken.
fuck me, i forgot about that. I assume that applies to Natalya's Mark too ? I was wondering why i didn't gain as much dps as i would have thought i would after buying a 20m ring, lol
I wouldn't complain toooo hard since the ring is worth it regardless because the natalya set is super broken
i'm not a DH... Wiz here, don't care about the regen shit. just using the 2 piece set for 7% crit.
but thx for clarification Phael, i guess it's working then.
On June 30 2012 04:38 Phael wrote: I get exact as much as the rest of the players - I am, after all, playing the same game. It's not as if players are auto-locked into act1 and can't go on.
Not only that, after testing out full clearing act3, specific boss runs in act3, elite runs in act1 and so on, I can honestly say that farming act1 is at -least- 75% as profitable as any run variation in act3. In the best run I could come up with in act3, I'm killing a elite pack (bosses count for 2) with 5 stacks once every 2.5 min on average. In act1, that number goes down to 1 min - basically travel time.
While you get fewer lvl 63 items (but not by a whole lot), you get more than double 61 and 62 items. Those items are still worth good gold, plus, you get to clear out whimsy at the end which is also pretty efficient.
So for a player who is geared enough to wreck act3, act1 still gives almost comparable rewards ... I'd imagine everyone who cannot reliably kill packs in act3 without dying (but who can still progress through just fine) will get better results in act1.
Half the drop rate, 75% as profitable. Higher drop rate on ilevel 61 and 62 makes these items drop at a...lower rate too? You get more high quality (in terms of ilevel) rares in Act III/IV period, I'm not sure where you're getting the "double" ilevel 61 and 62 drops in Act I. Double the ilevel 57 maybe, but that's just part of the "time investment" right?
Taking only twice as much time to get four times the drop rate on ilevel 63 isn't enough I guess. About that spoiled part...
On June 30 2012 04:38 Phael wrote: I'd suggest nerfing act1-2 drop rates even
I like how you were quick to insist that more time invested should provide more rewards for you, yet when drop rates were nerfed so you had to make an actual non-trivial (in relative terms) "time investment" for the same profit (still far more than an Act I farmer), you balked at the notion, even going so far as to call it socialism. Now you say Act I/II should be nerfed because the devs were smart enough to double drop rates across the board so it wouldn't exacerbate the "gear grind rewards those who don't need the gear" issue as much?
On June 30 2012 04:38 Phael wrote: And yes, farming items to sell is the endgame because as far as I'm concerned, my upgrades come through the AH and not the monsters I kill. Of all the gear I'm wearing, only one piece (pants) has been my own drop and I haven't bothered replacing it because it's passable, better gear is worth 20mil+, and pants can't spawn any dps stats anyway outside of int.
My statement was on how boring the endgame was, and you've just given a fair testimony of that.
On June 30 2012 04:38 Phael wrote: I'm not exactly sure how you interpret a "whoops, we unintentionally halved drop rates of good gear in act3/4, here's a fix" as "caving in to whiners".
You and the other whiners wanted it to go back to the way it was, you didn't want just a fix. A nerf to the drop rates was intentional and I agreed that it was too severe. I however do not agree with your apparent idea that Act III/IV should have an ilevel 63 drop rate more than quadruple Act I and double Act II, and more than (roughly) double the drop rate on ilevel 62 items compared with Act I. How much more do you want?
Lets say X = how much gold you can get per hour by chain farming act3/4 hell with dedicated GF gear.
If a player is capable of killing anything in the game with minimal deaths, he should earn:
Roughly X/hour in act1 Roughly 1.5X/hour in act2 Roughly 2X/hour in act3 Roughly 2.5-3X/hour in act4
After all, there should be incentive to keep killing stuff on harder difficulties. I think these are fairly reasonable numbers, right?
Right now, that's not the pattern that we have. Currently, for someone capable of clearing everything, it looks something like:
2X/hour in act1 1.5-3X/hour in act2 (dunno about values here, haven't confirmed but those are pretty generous bounds) 2.5 X/hour in act3 1-1.5 X/hour in act4 (four reasons - mobs types are nasty = more deaths, mob hp is higher = longer time to clear, elite packs don't really spawn as often in other acts so you barely get 5 stacks before Izual, and only diablo, a five minute fight in itself, is classified as a "boss" with neph valor applied, vs 30 sec cydea/azmodan.)
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See, the problem with the drop rates isn't ilvl 63. In fact, I think if the worth of your loot was solely dependent on ilvl 63 gear, then the drop rates between act1/2/3 are fairly good. You can kill shit almost three times as fast in act1, for a quarter of the amount = you get less 63s per hour but run almost no risk. It's a decent tradeoff.
The problem is that the chances for ilvl 61/62 drops are almost the same through all 4 acts, which is somewhat baffling to me. The thing is, ilvl 61/62 armor is really freaking good still. Personally, I'm only using 2 ilvl 63 items and my gear is probably above the 99.9% percentile. I want better of course, but 61/62 gear is already really freaking nice. So you have someone who can clear three times as many packs in act1 as you can in act3, and while the lvl 63 items are pretty balanced, you end up with a boatload more 61 and 62s in act1 for the same time spent. Maybe next year when only ilvl 63 items are worth anything, that makes sense, but right now that's head-scratch worthy. ---
even going so far as to call it socialism.
I specifically called your question of "why should those farming later acts get more rewards?" somewhat socialist.
On June 30 2012 08:24 Phael wrote: Well, here's my ideal loot distribution:
Lets say X = how much gold you can get per hour by chain farming act3/4 hell with dedicated GF gear.
If a player is capable of killing anything in the game with minimal deaths, he should earn:
Roughly X/hour in act1 Roughly 1.5X/hour in act2 Roughly 2X/hour in act3 Roughly 2.5-3X/hour in act4
After all, there should be incentive to keep killing stuff on harder difficulties. I think these are fairly reasonable numbers, right?
Right now, that's not the pattern that we have. Currently, for someone capable of clearing everything, it looks something like:
2X/hour in act1 1.5-3X/hour in act2 (dunno about values here, haven't confirmed but those are pretty generous bounds) 2.5 X/hour in act3 1-1.5 X/hour in act4 (four reasons - mobs types are nasty = more deaths, mob hp is higher = longer time to clear, elite packs don't really spawn as often in other acts so you barely get 5 stacks before Izual, and only diablo, a five minute fight in itself, is classified as a "boss" with neph valor applied, vs 30 sec cydea/azmodan.)
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See, the problem with the drop rates isn't ilvl 63. In fact, I think if the worth of your loot was solely dependent on ilvl 63 gear, then the drop rates between act1/2/3 are fairly good. You can kill shit almost three times as fast in act1, for a quarter of the amount = you get less 63s per hour but run almost no risk. It's a decent tradeoff.
The problem is that the chances for ilvl 61/62 drops are almost the same through all 4 acts, which is somewhat baffling to me. The thing is, ilvl 61/62 armor is really freaking good still. Personally, I'm only using 2 ilvl 63 items and my gear is probably above the 99.9% percentile. I want better of course, but 61/62 gear is already really freaking nice. So you have someone who can clear three times as many packs in act1 as you can in act3, and while the lvl 63 items are pretty balanced, you end up with a boatload more 61 and 62s in act1 for the same time spent. Maybe next year when only ilvl 63 items are worth anything, that makes sense, but right now that's head-scratch worthy.
The problem with your problem with the drops is that the drop rates themselves suggest that the rewards from Act I-III follow your ideal more than they do your supposed distribution.
I understand the point about loot and ilevel, I have ilevel 61 pieces that besides not having the extra frills of good ilevel 63 ones have great desired stats, on par with or even better than some ilevel 63 pieces fetching a fair amount. Generally speaking though, a higher ilevel item will have more stats and more of the good stuff when you get a comparably good roll. What I don't understand is how with the lower drop rates in Act I/II and the known prevalence of all the ilevel 50ish loot you get there, why do you keep insisting that someone farming Act I will get more than someone farming Act III? Blizzard has shown us stats with Act III having roughly double the drop rate on ilevel 62. The only items that have a comparable drop rate are ilevel 61 drops, and that's still ignoring all the ilevel 50ish loot that can drop instead. With 5 stack NV and now 150% additional mf from gear, I half the time still get only 1-2 rares per pack, and chances are one of those is an ilevel 50ish one. When I get more, I might even get 3 ilevel 50ish or just ilevel 60 rares. I'm baffled as to why you keep throwing out these skewed numbers when the real ones are in a link on the previous page and contradict just about everything you say. My own experiences with farming Act I has been far less lucrative than you say it should be and I can clear it fairly quickly. Maybe I just have terrible luck? I sure wish I could get as much as you say you can from Act I.
On June 30 2012 08:24 Phael wrote: I specifically called your question of "why should those farming later acts get more rewards?" somewhat socialist.
I'm not quite sure about that one, I think I've made it quite clear that I'm all for better and more rewards in later acts, just not oodles and oodles more in addition to a nerf for lower act farming. I hear Obamacare was passed though, want to escape public healthcare by moving to Canada?
Inferno – Act III and Act IV iLvl 61: 27.1%, iLvl 62: 21.7%,
Here are the stats that I'm talking about.
Like I said, the fastest I could get an act 3 run was about 1 elite pack at 5 stacks every 2.5 min. I can find and kill a pack every 1 min in act 1 though. It's a huge benefit being able to just straight up run past all trash mobs and engage elites - if trash mobs add, who cares? they get caught in the aoe destruction anyway and barely scratch you. (I've literally 1-shot entire packs of champions with an arcane orb in act1, that's how wimpy they are in comparison.)
So for a given set of time (lets say 50 min, and each pack drops 2 rares)
In act 1, I can pick up about 100 rares. Of these, 24 will be ilvl 61s and about 12 will be ilvl 62s. In act 3, I can pick up about 40 rares. Of these, 11 will be ilvl 61s and 8 will be ilvl 62s.
Total of about 36 ilvl 61 & 62s in act1 vs 19 in act3 (and about 4 63s in act1 vs 6 in act3)
See where I'm coming from?
Is the difference in 2 ilvl 63s worth 17 more 61 and 62s? Perhaps later, not really now though.
Honestly looking at these numbers I should just get to farming act1 =/
This is what I mean when I say act1 drop rates should be nerfed, if not 63, at least 62 and most definitely 61. There really shouldn't be any reason for a player who has no problem clearing act3 to run act1 because it gives him more of a profit for significantly less risk, and yet, that is the baffling conclusion that we can reach from a purely optimized farming point of view.
I guess if you're being really rough in the calculations you're "right" with the statistics.
Seeing your numbers, my statement on how the gear grind in its current incarnation most benefits guys like you who are grinding only for profit gets a little more credit, and your numbers are still heavily skewed because not everyone clears an elite pack a minute in Act I, I'd even say those who can are well in the minority of Inferno players. If I've read everything you've said so far correctly, what you want is basically for Act III to be the most profitable for you to farm so you can have your old cake (the profit) and another one on the side (the higher ilevel 63 drops) while the Act I guys get less so they're more likely to buy your stuff on the AH (the icing).
The last part in your post highlights the problem with all your justifications for drop changes. You would think the design intent is to get people who need or have the higher level/top gear to farm later acts for those shiny ilevel 63s with the higher drop rate, as it is in any other game, but it seems the devs underestimated the importance of profit. I guess you can say its a little dumb of them because they do have an AH and RMAH. They increased drops so you got your higher rates, but that part was just caving in, the important part was that they did it across the board because they obviously didn't want Act III farmers to "have it all." Act I drops shouldn't be nerfed as it would only hurt those who haven't progressed to Act III because if they're in that position, then Act II at their probable gear level is in all likelihood frustrating to farm (annoying mobs). Changes to drop rates are not, should not and have not been done from a purely optimized farming point of view. Still, you keep asking for changes not just based on an optimized farming point of view, but one in which you're so well geared that you don't even need the drops for anything but the AH.
This is why I called it whining - because it was just that. Some people suddenly had to actually "grind" for their profit instead of enjoying an up to 20% base drop rate on the ilevel 61+ items and that just would not do because they were so willing to put in more time for more rewards. I again have nothing against people farther in progression getting better rewards, its just natural. I do have something against them wanting what amounts to several times the rewards of lower acts and for Blizzard to make their farming more profitable without a thought towards anyone else.
If you don't mind I'd like to ask why you would want a nerf to easy money Act I if it really is such easy items and money? Profit so you can buy another top tier item is clearly the most important factor to you but I'd like to know if there's anything else.
You're making this personal when it isn't. I'm not a developer, I don't post on the bnet forums, and I seriously doubt a D3 dev will look on a SC2 site for feedback. Nothing of what I say will ever reach the ears of anyone who has anything to say about the direction this game goes. So it leaves me confused when you call it whining, because while I'm complaining about a perceived imbalance, I'm certainly not doing it with the intent to get my way, but rather to discuss a game that I'm fairly interested in.
You're just parroting the same thing over again: that the man is sticking it to the downtrodden act1 farmers. You say you are in favor of those in later acts getting higher rewards than those in earlier acts, but as the numbers show, you don't. Not even close.
It's not a matter of -me- being able to kill a pack in a minute in act1 normal, I also included in my kill rate of act 3 elite packs. If it takes you 3 minutes per act1 elite pack, if you were transplanted into act3 I guarantee it'd take you longer than 7 minutes per pack there, so even if you were able to farm act3 without dying, you'd still profit more in act1. Doesn't matter how quickly you kill, the -ratio- of stuff you kill in the allotted time is more important, and on top of that, the lower your damage, the more favored act1 becomes.
See, that, to me, makes no sense. I don't want what I personally farm to be the best loot in the game - I want the HARDEST stuff to be the best loot. I will gravitate towards whatever is the best place to farm no matter where it is. Notice how I've said over and over again I want act4 to have the highest profit, yet why are we still discussing 1/3?
I was farming act3 pre-patch because it was the area that maximized my earning potential. I crafted all last week and farmed twice just to get first hand confirmation of how crappy the drop rate was, because that was the path that maximized my earning potential. If I farm starting now, I'll only bother with act 1 because -that- now maximizes my earning potential.
None of that makes sense, why should I play somewhere that is not the hardest area in the game to get the best reward? That is why I want a nerf to loot in acts 1, 2, AND 3, and a buff to 4.
Edit: and as to why I think the drop rate nerf was ridiculous - it's because you always have to have a baseline to compare things to, and I think a fair standard is a completely non-geared character just stacking gold find, mowing through acts 3/4 in hell. That's the basic starting point that any level 60 can do, and when -that- earns more gold than farming act 3 inferno, then yeah, there is a small problem. I don't mind grinding, never have. I literally died over 200 times in the cave of the betrayer on inferno my first time through due to vastly unlucky quest resets and the force armor no vit build. I want my grind to have meaning though.
On June 30 2012 17:17 Phael wrote: You're making this personal when it isn't. I'm not a developer, I don't post on the bnet forums, and I seriously doubt a D3 dev will look on a SC2 site for feedback. Nothing of what I say will ever reach the ears of anyone who has anything to say about the direction this game goes. So it leaves me confused when you call it whining, because while I'm complaining about a perceived imbalance, I'm certainly not doing it with the intent to get my way, but rather to discuss a game that I'm fairly interested in.
I'm making this personal because the reasons you believe things should be changed are personal. I call it whining because some of the things you said were the same things people said on the bnet forums with the same justifications over profit and nothing for long term changes that would benefit us all. The imbalance is insignificant for most players progressing and farming the acts who actually need the gear. The imbalance also isn't just a drop rate issue, and its only a "problem" for people like you who can just blow through all the mobs and elites like nothing and feel you should get better rewards when the speed with which you can clear is a better reward already. The problem is for every person that can do that, there could be five, ten, maybe even more players who can't. Why should the drops ever be balanced around the AH profits of people like you and not actual progression of gear relative to content?
On June 30 2012 17:17 Phael wrote: You're just parroting the same thing over again: that the man is sticking it to the downtrodden act1 farmers. You say you are in favor of those in later acts getting higher rewards than those in earlier acts, but as the numbers show, you don't. Not even close.
As if you and your skewed numbers aren't parroting the same thing over and over? There is no reason Act III/IV rates need be buffed more or that Act I rates should be nerfed. For ilevel 63 Act III has roughly 4x the rate, for ilevel 62 roughly 2x. You can definitely argue that ilevel 61 and 62 items can be great if you've got a great roll, but it turns out, the best items are still ilevel 63. Maybe they can buff the gold drops somewhat since there seem to be some overall imbalances with gold in Hell compared with Inferno as you stated, but for the items I don't see any reason why they need to be changed. The current rates relative to the content are fairly sensible, there's a gear curve that goes with the progression curve. If you want more ilevel 63, "better" overall gear and fewer junk ilevel 50ish rares, you go to Act III. If you're ok with mostly ilevel 61, some ilevel 62, and a small chance at ilevel 63, you go to Act I/II. I suppose I should have gotten to this part sooner but the problem post 1.03 isn't drop rates anymore. This isn't a drop rate issue, this is a game scaling issue. If you happen to want to defend the awful scaling as "difficulty" and keep focusing on the rates, then fine, keep defending cheap, cheesy and lazy design and mechanics. On another note I don't get why people like you believe the way to fix the problem is by addressing it in the one area where its actually fine.
On June 30 2012 17:17 Phael wrote: It's not a matter of -me- being able to kill a pack in a minute in act1 normal, I also included in my kill rate of act 3 elite packs. If it takes you 3 minutes per act1 elite pack, if you were transplanted into act3 I guarantee it'd take you longer than 7 minutes per pack there, so even if you were able to farm act3 without dying, you'd still profit more in act1. Doesn't matter how quickly you kill, the -ratio- of stuff you kill in the allotted time is more important, and on top of that, the lower your damage, the more favored act1 becomes.
The time requirements are a great example of the issue with hp scaling for difficulty inflation that's always been an issue. Act III mobs don't have more difficult mechanics when compared with Act II mobs (partially due to the cheesiness), so they literally just have a ton more hp tacked on beyond character damage scaling because hey, how else will we get more "difficulty" with minimal development effort? Fixing this would require things like changes to stats such as +crit dmg and nerfed mob hp in later acts accordingly to go with lower player dps from not stacking something like crit dmg to insane numbers (something Athene and maybe Kripp and others talked about as well). Act I being a viable place to farm was intended for people with low damage and poor gear, that is not a problem. It becoming the best place for you is because of your good gear and these other scaling issues. If you could clear Act III faster in great gear I can certainly see it becoming the most profitable again.
On June 30 2012 17:17 Phael wrote: See, that, to me, makes no sense. I don't want what I personally farm to be the best loot in the game - I want the HARDEST stuff to be the best loot. Notice how I've said over and over again I want act4 to have the highest profit, yet why are we still discussing 1/3?
Act III is not the hardest stuff, so why should it drop the best loot? Speaking of "hard" though nothing really is that "hard" outside of a few encounters with some punishing mechanics for some classes and lolGhom. Act IV having the highest profit would be difficult to implement simply because of its structure with fewer elite packs, a feature that also makes it less popular for farming, while Act II on the other hand can just be really annoying. We're discussing Act I/III because those are the ones that are most farmed and used in comparisons and as such are the most relevant.
On June 30 2012 17:17 Phael wrote: I was farming act3 pre-patch because it was the area that maximized my earning potential. I crafted all last week and farmed twice just to get first hand confirmation of how crappy the drop rate was, because that was the path that maximized my earning potential. If I farm starting now, I'll only bother with act 1 because -that- now maximizes my earning potential.
None of that makes sense, why should I play somewhere that is not the hardest area in the game to get the best reward? That is why I want a nerf to loot in acts 1, 2, AND 3, and a buff to 4.
Drops aren't balanced around maximum farming profit for people geared in pieces that are a few mil each - another thing on game scaling, and again, Act III isn't hard at all besides 1.03 Ghom and Act IV by all accounts isn't really that bad either.
On June 30 2012 17:17 Phael wrote: Edit: and as to why I think the drop rate nerf was ridiculous - it's because you always have to have a baseline to compare things to, and I think a fair standard is a completely non-geared character just stacking gold find, mowing through acts 3/4 in hell. That's the basic starting point that any level 60 can do, and when -that- earns more gold than farming act 3 inferno, then yeah, there is a small problem.
Well that's something with multiple areas that need to be addressed. This isn't something that will be solved in the long run by just plain buffing Act III/IV Inferno drops and maybe nerfing Act I/II.
I don't really get what you're arguing about. Phael has a legitimate point, and it really doesn't only effect a small subset of people. The fact is, nearly everyone is gonna be farming act 1, cause it's just more efficient until you get ridiculous DPS. It's not the fact that act 1 is viable to farm, it's that it remains the best place to farm for too long. Whether or not you think the mechanics themselves are difficult or not, it's still more difficult in the higher acts. Point being, you actually can die in the higher acts while in act 1 you're just running past mobs looking for elites and 1 shotting them. In act 3 you actually have to pay attention. For 99% of people it's just as efficient to farm act 1 and safer than act 3. There's no in between, and even though you're geared to the point where you could play with 1 hand through act 1, it's still not worth going through the higher acts with the drop rates as they are now.
You're really not making any sense. This isn't really a matter of rich vs. poor, but more so of let the other acts be worth farming. In any case, a geared player will always farm faster than you, it's just that geared players shouldn't be stuck in act 1 for life as well.
Drops aren't balanced around maximum farming profit for people geared in pieces that are a few mil each - another thing on game scaling, and again, Act III isn't hard at all besides 1.03 Ghom and Act IV by all accounts isn't really that bad either.
funny cause i still have to play well and still die a bit in act3 with gear worth like 60-80m. most of my friends cant do act 3 well and 99% of the playerbase cant either.
and its not about maximum profit for selected few, its that the hardest content should give the best reward. end of story, no when or ifs or whatever.
On June 30 2012 19:44 Itsmedudeman wrote: I don't really get what you're arguing about. Phael has a legitimate point, and it really doesn't only effect a small subset of people. The fact is, nearly everyone is gonna be farming act 1, cause it's just more efficient until you get ridiculous DPS. It's not the fact that act 1 is viable to farm, it's that it remains the best place to farm for too long. Whether or not you think the mechanics themselves are difficult or not, it's still more difficult in the higher acts. Point being, you actually can die in the higher acts while in act 1 you're just running past mobs looking for elites and 1 shotting them. In act 3 you actually have to pay attention. For 99% of people it's just as efficient to farm act 1 and safer than act 3. There's no in between, and even though you're geared to the point where you could play with 1 hand through act 1, it's still not worth going through the higher acts with the drop rates as they are now.
You're really not making any sense. This isn't really a matter of rich vs. poor, but more so of let the other acts be worth farming. In any case, a geared player will always farm faster than you, it's just that geared players shouldn't be stuck in act 1 for life as well.
I don't get how I'm not making sense unless you didn't bother reading the whole part about scaling making the geared players farm Act I because they can do it so quickly. Also, how many players do you think are out there that can one-shot Act I elites? Drop rates are not the issue, they're fine. One of the other reasons Act I is worth more to farm is because you can sell more 500k-1 mil pieces because more people need those than the possible 10 mil pieces that will drop more in Act III. As people clear more it will be less valuable to farm, there's no reason they should nerf or buff drop rates again just to appease top geared farmers in the short term.
Drops aren't balanced around maximum farming profit for people geared in pieces that are a few mil each - another thing on game scaling, and again, Act III isn't hard at all besides 1.03 Ghom and Act IV by all accounts isn't really that bad either.
funny cause i still have to play well and still die a bit in act3 with gear worth like 60-80m. most of my friends cant do act 3 well and 99% of the playerbase cant either.
and its not about maximum profit for selected few, its that the hardest content should give the best reward. end of story, no when or ifs or whatever.
It does give the best reward, the issue is that because of farming time from hp scaling, Act III elites just take way (relatively) longer to kill and it becomes less profitable to farm over Act I if you breeze through at Phael's speed. You die in Act III because the mobs do more and can take more, if they had Act II stats it would be way easier than Act II. Cheap "difficulty" inflation is not actual difficulty from mechanics.
I don't understand why you keep pointing out the fact that act 3 gives the best reward outside of its context. What's the point? That's the only thing that matters, drop rate scaling relative to time clear. But it's not just the people who are clearing at lightning speed with a billion DPS that want this, it's anyone who can clear act 3 relatively comfortably without dying a million times.
On June 30 2012 19:44 Itsmedudeman wrote: I don't really get what you're arguing about. Phael has a legitimate point, and it really doesn't only effect a small subset of people. The fact is, nearly everyone is gonna be farming act 1, cause it's just more efficient until you get ridiculous DPS. It's not the fact that act 1 is viable to farm, it's that it remains the best place to farm for too long. Whether or not you think the mechanics themselves are difficult or not, it's still more difficult in the higher acts. Point being, you actually can die in the higher acts while in act 1 you're just running past mobs looking for elites and 1 shotting them. In act 3 you actually have to pay attention. For 99% of people it's just as efficient to farm act 1 and safer than act 3. There's no in between, and even though you're geared to the point where you could play with 1 hand through act 1, it's still not worth going through the higher acts with the drop rates as they are now.
You're really not making any sense. This isn't really a matter of rich vs. poor, but more so of let the other acts be worth farming. In any case, a geared player will always farm faster than you, it's just that geared players shouldn't be stuck in act 1 for life as well.
I don't get how I'm not making sense unless you didn't bother reading the whole part about scaling making the geared players farm Act I because they can do it so quickly. Also, how many players do you think are out there that can one-shot Act I elites? Drop rates are not the issue, they're fine. One of the other reasons Act I is worth more to farm is because you can sell more 500k-1 mil pieces because more people need those than the possible 10 mil pieces that will drop more in Act III. As people clear more it will be less valuable to farm, there's no reason they should nerf or buff drop rates again just to appease top geared farmers in the short term.
Drops aren't balanced around maximum farming profit for people geared in pieces that are a few mil each - another thing on game scaling, and again, Act III isn't hard at all besides 1.03 Ghom and Act IV by all accounts isn't really that bad either.
funny cause i still have to play well and still die a bit in act3 with gear worth like 60-80m. most of my friends cant do act 3 well and 99% of the playerbase cant either.
and its not about maximum profit for selected few, its that the hardest content should give the best reward. end of story, no when or ifs or whatever.
It does give the best reward, the issue is that because of farming time from hp scaling, Act III elites just take way (relatively) longer to kill and it becomes less profitable to farm over Act I if you breeze through at Phael's speed. You die in Act III because the mobs do more and can take more, if they had Act II stats it would be way easier than Act II. Cheap "difficulty" inflation is not actual difficulty from mechanics.
Do you even bother to compare the mobs in Act 1 vs the mobs in Act 3? If champions/uniques in one area have 4x the hitpoints and 4x the drop rate, is it really more efficient to farm them? Not to mention they hit a lot harder.
On July 01 2012 05:08 Itsmedudeman wrote: I don't understand why you keep pointing out the fact that act 3 gives the best reward outside of its context. What's the point? That's the only thing that matters, drop rate scaling relative to time clear. But it's not just the people who are clearing at lightning speed with a billion DPS that want this, it's anyone who can clear act 3 relatively comfortably without dying a million times.
On June 30 2012 19:44 Itsmedudeman wrote: I don't really get what you're arguing about. Phael has a legitimate point, and it really doesn't only effect a small subset of people. The fact is, nearly everyone is gonna be farming act 1, cause it's just more efficient until you get ridiculous DPS. It's not the fact that act 1 is viable to farm, it's that it remains the best place to farm for too long. Whether or not you think the mechanics themselves are difficult or not, it's still more difficult in the higher acts. Point being, you actually can die in the higher acts while in act 1 you're just running past mobs looking for elites and 1 shotting them. In act 3 you actually have to pay attention. For 99% of people it's just as efficient to farm act 1 and safer than act 3. There's no in between, and even though you're geared to the point where you could play with 1 hand through act 1, it's still not worth going through the higher acts with the drop rates as they are now.
You're really not making any sense. This isn't really a matter of rich vs. poor, but more so of let the other acts be worth farming. In any case, a geared player will always farm faster than you, it's just that geared players shouldn't be stuck in act 1 for life as well.
I don't get how I'm not making sense unless you didn't bother reading the whole part about scaling making the geared players farm Act I because they can do it so quickly. Also, how many players do you think are out there that can one-shot Act I elites? Drop rates are not the issue, they're fine. One of the other reasons Act I is worth more to farm is because you can sell more 500k-1 mil pieces because more people need those than the possible 10 mil pieces that will drop more in Act III. As people clear more it will be less valuable to farm, there's no reason they should nerf or buff drop rates again just to appease top geared farmers in the short term.
On July 01 2012 02:14 BeMannerDuPenner wrote:
Drops aren't balanced around maximum farming profit for people geared in pieces that are a few mil each - another thing on game scaling, and again, Act III isn't hard at all besides 1.03 Ghom and Act IV by all accounts isn't really that bad either.
funny cause i still have to play well and still die a bit in act3 with gear worth like 60-80m. most of my friends cant do act 3 well and 99% of the playerbase cant either.
and its not about maximum profit for selected few, its that the hardest content should give the best reward. end of story, no when or ifs or whatever.
It does give the best reward, the issue is that because of farming time from hp scaling, Act III elites just take way (relatively) longer to kill and it becomes less profitable to farm over Act I if you breeze through at Phael's speed. You die in Act III because the mobs do more and can take more, if they had Act II stats it would be way easier than Act II. Cheap "difficulty" inflation is not actual difficulty from mechanics.
Do you even bother to compare the mobs in Act 1 vs the mobs in Act 3? If champions/uniques in one area have 4x the hitpoints and 4x the drop rate, is it really more efficient to farm them? Not to mention they hit a lot harder.
What did I just say about scaling being the bigger issue? Did you just not read that again? Either way for Act III to "give the best rewards" to people that do a ton of damage and can breeze through anything you would have to probably double the Act III rates and probably still have to nerf Act I/II rates. You see nothing wrong with this?
Lol? Yes, scaling is the issue. Just about everyone has been pointing this out and has explained that's the reason why you need to buff drop rates to accommodate hp scaling of mobs. And no, you wouldn't need to "double" drop rates. You just need act 3 to be slightly better factoring in clear time, not way better. And even if you did need to double drop rates in order for that to happen, how is that a bad thing? Compared to what the current situation is, it wouldn't be much different, and it'd still be beneficial for mid tier players with enough gear to clear at a satisfying pace.
On July 01 2012 09:55 Itsmedudeman wrote: Lol? Yes, scaling is the issue. Just about everyone has been pointing this out and has explained that's the reason why you need to buff drop rates to accommodate hp scaling of mobs. And no, you wouldn't need to "double" drop rates. You just need act 3 to be slightly better factoring in clear time, not way better. And even if you did need to double drop rates in order for that to happen, how is that a bad thing? Compared to what the current situation is, it wouldn't be much different, and it'd still be beneficial for mid tier players with enough gear to clear at a satisfying pace.
You don't need to buff drop rates, you need to lower mob scaling as per your example an Act III elite may have 4x the hp of an Act I elite, but a player progressing through the Act will do maybe 2x their Act I dps tops, or for me personally, I did roughly 1.5x. To go with mobs that have lower hp, players need to do less damage at the top gear level, particularly concerning stats such as crit dmg being stacked obscenely with all those expensive items that have it all.
Some people want to address the scaling issue by changing drop rates, justifying it with the profits that they as well geared players make from farming. That is not a realistic scenario for most people progressing through or who have just cleared Inferno and are going back to farm. There's also simply no need to change the drop rates either, the last patch brought them fairly close to the original rates in Act III/IV with around ~16% drop rate on ilevel 63 and a ~22% rate on ilevel 62, and Act I/II that people already found much better than before are even better now. One look at the rates for ilevel 62/63 gear is all you need to see a progression in the drop rates through acts, a very reasonable progression in drop rate. In addition, a buff on the scale of double the previous rates for Act III/IV would benefit these well geared people padding their wallets far more than those farming who need the drops themselves, probably why they have no problem with it. Perhaps the rate of ilevel 61 drops in Act I/II may need a small nerf since its at ~24%, but something around 4% should be the max to reflect the curve from Act II - Act III with probably some additional tuning so you get fewer junk ilevel 50ish items to even that out (it would actually be nice for that in all Acts).
While the scaling issue is brought up a lot, people only look at the rates with no or very little thought on the mob scaling/player damage as the actual issue that needs to be addressed. Some even go so far as to defend the poor scaling, cheap mechanics and lazy design as "difficulty" and that they deserve something more for their "effort." Also, drops and mobs relative should never be tuned based on the needs and wants of way over-geared farmers.
Lol why should the higher acts get EASIER to compensate? That's just dumb. The game is easy as is progression wise after the nerfs, and if you're talking from a "no AH progression" standpoint then it's basically the same thing. If you make drops better, it's easier to progress. And how would this be any different from just buffing drop rates exactly? If you're talking about lower geared players who want to farm act 3, then a nerf to hp scaling is still the same as a drop rate buff to them as it is to high DPS players.
And uhh, who cares if people wanting to go back and farm can't farm the higher acts? That's a progression in itself. You farm act 1, then act 2, then act 3 when you can. That's what people are looking for, not act 1... then act 1... then act 1. In any case, a drop rate increase for act 3 is good for a lot of players, and not just the top .01% (I've mentioned this like 50x). I honestly don't know what you think the current situation is, but you've got the completely wrong idea. If you buffed act 3 drops, then it'd give everyone an incentive to start clearing it. Pre patch I was in very mediocre gear with around 50k DPS. I wasn't clearing it in 2 hours, but so what? I could do it just fine and it was better than act 1, as it should be for players who reach a decent threshold.
You're just trying to make this into some sort of class warfare debate, but it really wouldn't be that big of a deal for geared players. All it would mean is slightly more efficient farm than what is currently from speed running act 1, and that we don't have to go through the lowest act for the rest of our lives while half asleep cause there's no challenge in it. The patch buffed act 3 drop rates, but it buffed act 1 as well. As it stands, the only people farming act 3 are the top .01% who benefit more from the current situation than anyone else.
On July 01 2012 17:29 Itsmedudeman wrote: Lol why should the higher acts get EASIER to compensate? That's just dumb. The game is easy as is progression wise after the nerfs, and if you're talking from a "no AH progression" standpoint then it's basically the same thing. If you make drops better, it's easier to progress. And how would this be any different from just buffing drop rates exactly? If you're talking about lower geared players who want to farm act 3, then a nerf to hp scaling is still the same as a drop rate buff to them as it is to high DPS players.
This isn't nerfing the game just to nerf the game, its about scaling so mob hp doesn't spike as much but has a smoother progression curve. Player damage would decrease too, especially at top levels. Its different from buffing drop rates because it would benefit the game in the long term. Lower geared players won't farm Act III because even with an hp nerf it would be more difficulty because they still do more damage, they'll keep farming Act I until they have the gear to farm Act III because it would be way easier for them that way. A nerf to hp and player damage is an improvement in scaling, just because it has the same effect as a drop rate buff doesn't mean it does the same things. Speaking of progression, post 1.03 its harder at several points with the boss buffs and relatively unchanged at others, good thing you beat the game when it was "hard" right?
On July 01 2012 17:29 Itsmedudeman wrote: And uhh, who cares if people wanting to go back and farm can't farm the higher acts? That's a progression in itself. You farm act 1, then act 2, then act 3 when you can. That's what people are looking for, not act 1... then act 1... then act 1. In any case, a drop rate increase for act 3 is good for a lot of players, and not just the top .01% (I've mentioned this like 50x). I honestly don't know what you think the current situation is, but you've got the completely wrong idea. If you buffed act 3 drops, then it'd give everyone an incentive to start clearing it. Pre patch I was in very mediocre gear with around 50k DPS. I wasn't clearing it in 2 hours, but so what? I could do it just fine and it was better than act 1, as it should be for players who reach a decent threshold.
I don't think you understand that time because of scaling is the issue, not rates. Act III has 4x Act I ilevel 63 rates and 2x ilevel 62 rates, if you could kill Act III mobs faster and Act I mobs had some hp tacked on since they honestly felt weaker after 1.03, it would make Act III relatively faster to farm and reduce the profit differential. People who can farm Act III and want to over Act I are clearly not worried about difficulty in the slightest, and its not like Act III was hard to begin with besides the standard D3 lazy just tack on a ton of hp and some damage "difficulty" scaling. The devs do want people in better gear to clear Act III instead, that's the whole reason they have the drop rates higher in Act III. The issue isn't related to actual difficulty, especially since again, many mobs and subsequently elites are just earlier Act ones recolored with more hp slapped on. I find it funny that you seem to be defending this as "difficulty." The reason Act I is superior to farm is because you get a bunch more ilevel 61 and supposedly more ilevel 62 drops to sell, not use, and I did say the ilevel 61 drop rate in Act I could use a small nerf to put it in line with the rate scaling of the others while you can only get more ilevel 62 because you clear so quickly. Act II is probably the point in the game that could use the most work to polish or remove some of the cheesy mobs so people at around that progression point will have more incentive farm it after Act I. There's no real farming progression because of a lot of issues, but the drop rates are actually in a fairly good spot now. I'll say it again since you seem to have difficulty understanding this: The drop rates are designed around getting upgrades, the game not scaling well with them steers people towards Act I - the easiest to farm.
On July 01 2012 17:29 Itsmedudeman wrote: You're just trying to make this into some sort of class warfare debate, but it really wouldn't be that big of a deal for geared players. All it would mean is slightly more efficient farm than what is currently from speed running act 1, and that we don't have to go through the lowest act for the rest of our lives while half asleep cause there's no challenge in it. The patch buffed act 3 drop rates, but it buffed act 1 as well. As it stands, the only people farming act 3 are the top .01% who benefit more from the current situation than anyone else.
Just because I want the game to scale better and not have to greatly increase drop rates to "fix" the farming profit situation I'm making this into a class warfare debate? What's next, you're gonna say I'm mad and butthurt like that other guy? The fact is an increase on the scale of doubling Act III drop rates would definitely most benefit the top or already well geared players, they would just breeze through Act III instead of Act I and profit even more than they did pre-1.03. Come to think of it they stand to gain the most from any drop rate buff because they're the fastest farmers, and there's nothing wrong with being well geared and farming quickly. The people clearing Act III right now are those who either care less about the profit from selling ilevel 61/62 items than the actual upgrades or ilevel 63s they would get, or just don't care about it, I wouldn't say its just the top .01%. Also its not like higher acts once you get better gear are really more difficult and less sleep inducing than farming Act I, mobs just take longer to die.
The game scales just fine. Just because inferno doesn't scale the same way nightmare/hell did doesn't mean it's bad scaling. Inferno was meant to be on a progression scale that's so linear and only requires you to play through each acts once or twice. It's the only end game in diablo, and it "should" take at least a few weeks to clear. As it is now, it would only take about a week with the AH.
Yes, I did beat the game when it was hard and when items weren't so damn easy to come by on the AH and when getting 30k DPS with decent survivability meant spending what you farmed for 2 weeks. Please explain to me how 44% reduced damage on all monsters past act 1 is somehow harder than it is now? I honestly think you picked up the game 2 weeks ago.
And I have no idea why you keep on going about greatly increasing drop rates. I don't think you've tested the farming efficiency at all. Just 4% more in ilvl 63 could make it worthwhile. See, you're turning this into some stupid class warfare shit again. Tell me how this also wouldn't benefit the people who don't breeze through act 3 but still stand to gain from it more than their act 1 pace?
And yeah, no shit considering all the mobs are the same throughout every act with the same affixes, but d3 was never about requiring skill to farm, and it never will be. The only thing that it requires is that you're paying attention to the affixes.
It's really simple if you can farm Act 3 farm Act 3. Nothing else makes sense. If you are dying all over the place in Act 3 then fuck it.
But Blizzard does need to balance the classes a bit. I used to have a monk but I was forced to roll demon hunter for profit reasons. My DH crits for 300k and nothing I do with my monk is ever going to change that since DH hits everything on screen as well.
I blame wave of light. It used to deal 450 percent and then 450 percent damage to everything vaguely in front of you. Then they nerfed it TO THE GROUND and made the aftershock do 10 fucking times less damage. Who the fuck balances like this?
Blizzard does. They <3 the nerf-bat. Almost to the point where I believe if they perceive any sort of imbalance it's met with nerf first, ask questions later. Just look at terran and the state it's in in SC2 now... ;\
On July 02 2012 06:31 Itsmedudeman wrote: The game scales just fine. Just because inferno doesn't scale the same way nightmare/hell did doesn't mean it's bad scaling. Inferno was meant to be on a progression scale that's so linear and only requires you to play through each acts once or twice. It's the only end game in diablo, and it "should" take at least a few weeks to clear. As it is now, it would only take about a week with the AH.
It doesn't scale just fine, they wanted the endgame to be farming for a few weeks but put in an AH and as you said even back then it took "only" two weeks back when you beat the game to get 30k dps and decent survivability. Back then you could take on bosses like that with lower dps (and less survivability cause bosses were a joke anyways), there was none of this enrage timer garbage, you just had to have patience. The game wasn't necessarily more difficult, but it was definitely different and you had to be much more self sufficient.
On July 02 2012 06:31 Itsmedudeman wrote: Yes, I did beat the game when it was hard and when items weren't so damn easy to come by on the AH and when getting 30k DPS with decent survivability meant spending what you farmed for 2 weeks. Please explain to me how 44% reduced damage on all monsters past act 1 is somehow harder than it is now? I honestly think you picked up the game 2 weeks ago.
You beat the game when ability sequences were actual sequences and not more randomized. You possibly beat the game when there were gimmick builds and OP skills going around as well. 44% reduced damage had the biggest effect for normal mobs, which weren't really the thing that stopped people from progressing. Besides some mobs that had targeted nerfs like soul rippers, if an elite pack shredded you back then (assuming same gear), it would probably just take a little longer to shred you now or would just enrage. Yes things did more damage back then and more often than not one-shot you, but that was all untested/poorly tested difficulty inflation that usually required you to just back up and take it slow. You probably had a more "authentic" D3 experience, but if you don't know what I'm talking about when it comes to more difficulty at several points in progression now, then you sound like you're the one that picked up the game 2 weeks ago. For the record I picked it up four weeks ago, fashionably late.
On July 02 2012 06:31 Itsmedudeman wrote: And I have no idea why you keep on going about greatly increasing drop rates. I don't think you've tested the farming efficiency at all. Just 4% more in ilvl 63 could make it worthwhile. See, you're turning this into some stupid class warfare shit again. Tell me how this also wouldn't benefit the people who don't breeze through act 3 but still stand to gain from it more than their act 1 pace?
Why are you mouthing off on how I haven't tested the rates? I know about the inefficiency and have tested it, albeit not at such a great gear level that I breeze through it all ez pz which is why I haven't denied it. Its not like its terribly difficult to make projections on these things anyways. If you wanted 4% more on just ilevel 63, then say you want that, not something like another half or double that Phael had nothing against and saw no issue with. Changes on that scale are fine and they're relatively small, but a lot of the people who want it changed want something far more than that. I still don't get how this is some kind of class warfare shit, I said a significant change in drop rates would most benefit those with great gear. I didn't elaborate at all on how it could smooth the progression and give incentive to farm later Acts for those who are at lower gear levels progressing through (or who have just cleared them), because I didn't think you'd be repeatedly throwing out a straw man and putting words in my mouth.
On July 02 2012 06:31 Itsmedudeman wrote: And yeah, no shit considering all the mobs are the same throughout every act with the same affixes, but d3 was never about requiring skill to farm, and it never will be. The only thing that it requires is that you're paying attention to the affixes.
Doesn't that kinda kill your own argument about "difficulty?"
On July 02 2012 08:32 ShivaN wrote: Blizzard does. They <3 the nerf-bat. Almost to the point where I believe if they perceive any sort of imbalance it's met with nerf first, ask questions later. Just look at terran and the state it's in in SC2 now... ;\
Lol I figured it was only a matter of time before Terran QQ invaded ... the D3 thread ...
wtf did somebody seriously just QQ about terran OP in diablo 3 thread?
game is not and should not be balanced around casual players. sure terran is weak for casuals because it requires the most "skill" (unless you 3 rax your way to GM lulz), but that's irrelevant. it should only be balanced around pros, and for the longest time, EMP was OP, snipe was OP, etc etc. terran deserved to get nerfed into the ground.
now back on topic, if blizz increases drop rates, everyone will get geared quicker, realize theres no endgame and then quit playing this game. lol. so they do not want to increase.
EPT
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