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On June 22 2012 06:18 andrewlt wrote:
I'm going to throw this out there. I had multiple characters kill Diablo in Hell in Diablo 2. From what I remember, I had at least 7 complete the act. I also had quite a few that I abandoned earlier. I never had any one of those characters hit level 90. It was extremely tedious. Roughly mid to high 80s was the highest I ever got.
For me, once I beat the final boss of the final difficulty of the game, the only thing keeping me coming back is character progression. It's fun getting better items to see how much more powerful my character is when I do my next run. Once the time commitment to get incrementally stronger gets too high, I just quit. It's not fun for me anymore. In Diablo 2, that meant leveling until it takes too long to get to the next level for me. It meant farming locations until it took too long to get the next item upgrade.
Diablo 3 patch 1.03, to me, was an improvement in some aspects. I didn't like them reducing guaranteed rares from 5 NV stacks on bosses from 2 to 1. I liked them giving out a guaranteed rare from champion/unique packs. But most of all, I hate how much they nerfed the drop rates in act 3/act 4. I tried a couple of 2-hour runs and am incredibly discouraged by the loot I got. My progression has just hit a brick wall.
The biggest fallacy Blizzard and its defenders is making is the assumption that people will play until they get a perfect character. They assume that if drop rates were nerfed to such a degree that people will get perfect gear in 50 years, people will actually play Diablo 3 for 50 years. People aren't. If drop rates become so low that people don't feel like they are progressing, they're going to quit playing their unfinished characters to play another game.
Right now, I'm very close to that level. Before 1.03, I was already at 200 hours. I was estimating that I would hit 400 hours before I start playing at a lot more casual level. Even if I wasn't getting a lot of upgrades through drops, I was getting enough sellable gear during my Cydaea/Azmodan runs that I could afford to buy stuff from the AH. Once the patch hit, I'm getting fewer good items and I'm seeing fewer good items listed on the AH. After 1.03, I don't feel like farming in inferno any longer. The drop rates for act 3 are just that low and that discouraging. Once my barb hits level 60, I'm probably going to drop D3 immediately.
At least you got to experience farming act 3 with your herp derp wizard or DH. What about the 200 hour barb who endlessly grinded act 1 just to not die to act 2 elites? Grinding in a place where you can't progress with the items you find and instead collect every gold that drops and sell decent ilvl 62 items for micro transactions.
Sounds like the rich are bitching. Sorry but people didn't find shit in d2 like you did with 20% drop rates pre 1.03. And lol at all the people who said there was longevity in d2 because grinding to lvl 99 meant something. What bullshit, get real people.
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On June 22 2012 06:10 crms wrote:Show nested quote +On June 22 2012 05:53 skyR wrote:On June 22 2012 05:34 Lokian wrote:On June 22 2012 05:28 skyR wrote:On June 22 2012 05:26 Lokian wrote:
Diablo 3 is missing a big part of its release.. PVP. So before you question the longevity of the game, think about what PVP can bring to the table. It will be out this summer, so hold your horses and hold your horns for a bit longer.
Even though this patch is suppose to make transitioning easier... all the good gear to do inferno act 3/4 still is unobtainable without AH. I have about 5mill worth of gear I got from act 2. Going to act 3 I have to invest 5mil into one piece of gear. I don't farm gold. I don't want to monitor the AH and try my luck at reselling. I just want to bash monsters and be able to use the gear I get from them at least 1/10 of the time. Blizzard needs to incorporate something so that you don't need to rely on the AH. Say, make a new set of gear that binds to your account. These items are rare. You can't trade away /sell on the auction house, and can't repair,.. dropping these items would simply make it dissappear or only visible to you? Wtf? ilvl 63 drops in act 1 which means the gear is obtainable. If you don't want to grind and don't want to use the AH than just quit playing the game. I do grind, but in inferno, there's only one type of gear. vit/all resist, and certain extras. i've been farming act 2 and the drop rates are better and ilevel 63 items are there. but to get the right one the chances are slim. I don't know how many affixes are there, but the sheer variety makes it so its unobtainable. Sure, you get lucky with one piece, but you need five more. I don't use the AH very often, and this is the struggle of someone that doesn't. btw, saying that i dont want to grind, were you referring to gold grinding? i dont think not wanting to gold farm is merit to telling someone to GTFO. calm down man. no ones taking your pizza away from you Why would I be referring to gold grinding? Grinding is all the same. You said gear is unobtainable which is far from true since that's exactly what patch 1.0.3 did - it made the gear obtainable for the people stuck on Act I and II while screwing over those in Act III and IV. And if you think there's variety in gear than you're sadly mistaken... Your post can be summarized into a simple sentence, "I want gear handed to me without any effort." it's funny because people don't seem to realize that it will inevitably fuck everyone over. Now that those players stuck in act1/2 can potentially farm up easier, they will just get to act 3/4 and suffer the same inefficient farming. Perhaps they won't care because they didn't know what it was before, but it's a very short term solution; cut your nose to spite your face type stuff. dont play enough or aren't good enough to progress? Here, progression is now easier. However, the reward for your progress is now 40-66% less. Hope you're happy!
this is so true. blizzard is just putting out a band-aid solution here to appease the casuals who are whining about the difficulty/lack of drops. in a month or two people will be complaining about the exact same thing when they're in a3-4 about "waah why do I only have an 8% chance at getting an ilvl 63 item, make it prepatch where it was 20%!"
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The new patch made me 120 euro richer and made me stop playing this game. (cleared all of it pre-patch including inferno diablo softcore). gg blizzard.
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On June 22 2012 06:49 heishe wrote:
So how are you supposed to beat ghom now? Wtihin a couple (like 30-45) of seconds he has the entire room - yes, the entire room,e xcept maybe a tiny corner full of poison that kills me in like 6 seconds even with 1200 poison resist.
It's even worse in groups where the non melee characters die instantly and he has 150% hp.
Here's the secret + Show Spoiler +
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On June 22 2012 06:50 matiK23 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 22 2012 06:18 andrewlt wrote:
I'm going to throw this out there. I had multiple characters kill Diablo in Hell in Diablo 2. From what I remember, I had at least 7 complete the act. I also had quite a few that I abandoned earlier. I never had any one of those characters hit level 90. It was extremely tedious. Roughly mid to high 80s was the highest I ever got.
For me, once I beat the final boss of the final difficulty of the game, the only thing keeping me coming back is character progression. It's fun getting better items to see how much more powerful my character is when I do my next run. Once the time commitment to get incrementally stronger gets too high, I just quit. It's not fun for me anymore. In Diablo 2, that meant leveling until it takes too long to get to the next level for me. It meant farming locations until it took too long to get the next item upgrade.
Diablo 3 patch 1.03, to me, was an improvement in some aspects. I didn't like them reducing guaranteed rares from 5 NV stacks on bosses from 2 to 1. I liked them giving out a guaranteed rare from champion/unique packs. But most of all, I hate how much they nerfed the drop rates in act 3/act 4. I tried a couple of 2-hour runs and am incredibly discouraged by the loot I got. My progression has just hit a brick wall.
The biggest fallacy Blizzard and its defenders is making is the assumption that people will play until they get a perfect character. They assume that if drop rates were nerfed to such a degree that people will get perfect gear in 50 years, people will actually play Diablo 3 for 50 years. People aren't. If drop rates become so low that people don't feel like they are progressing, they're going to quit playing their unfinished characters to play another game.
Right now, I'm very close to that level. Before 1.03, I was already at 200 hours. I was estimating that I would hit 400 hours before I start playing at a lot more casual level. Even if I wasn't getting a lot of upgrades through drops, I was getting enough sellable gear during my Cydaea/Azmodan runs that I could afford to buy stuff from the AH. Once the patch hit, I'm getting fewer good items and I'm seeing fewer good items listed on the AH. After 1.03, I don't feel like farming in inferno any longer. The drop rates for act 3 are just that low and that discouraging. Once my barb hits level 60, I'm probably going to drop D3 immediately. At least you got to experience farming act 3 with your herp derp wizard or DH. What about the 200 hour barb who endlessly grinded act 1 just to not die to act 2 elites? Grinding in a place where you can't progress with the items you find and instead collect every gold that drops and sell decent ilvl 62 items for micro transactions. Sounds like the rich are bitching. Sorry but people didn't find shit in d2 like you did with 20% drop rates pre 1.03. And lol at all the people who said there was longevity in d2 because grinding to lvl 99 meant something. What bullshit, get real people.
there is way more longevity in d2 than in d3. But the whole leveling to 99 is not the reason. It's just something extra, because once you beat diablo on hell. Guess what, when you're farming or just simply playing the game you are leveling. In d3 you are not doing anything past lvl 60 so after you beat inferno diablo there is absolutely nothing else to do, NOTHING.
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On June 22 2012 06:58 ballasdontcry wrote:Show nested quote +On June 22 2012 06:10 crms wrote:On June 22 2012 05:53 skyR wrote:On June 22 2012 05:34 Lokian wrote:On June 22 2012 05:28 skyR wrote:On June 22 2012 05:26 Lokian wrote:
Diablo 3 is missing a big part of its release.. PVP. So before you question the longevity of the game, think about what PVP can bring to the table. It will be out this summer, so hold your horses and hold your horns for a bit longer.
Even though this patch is suppose to make transitioning easier... all the good gear to do inferno act 3/4 still is unobtainable without AH. I have about 5mill worth of gear I got from act 2. Going to act 3 I have to invest 5mil into one piece of gear. I don't farm gold. I don't want to monitor the AH and try my luck at reselling. I just want to bash monsters and be able to use the gear I get from them at least 1/10 of the time. Blizzard needs to incorporate something so that you don't need to rely on the AH. Say, make a new set of gear that binds to your account. These items are rare. You can't trade away /sell on the auction house, and can't repair,.. dropping these items would simply make it dissappear or only visible to you? Wtf? ilvl 63 drops in act 1 which means the gear is obtainable. If you don't want to grind and don't want to use the AH than just quit playing the game. I do grind, but in inferno, there's only one type of gear. vit/all resist, and certain extras. i've been farming act 2 and the drop rates are better and ilevel 63 items are there. but to get the right one the chances are slim. I don't know how many affixes are there, but the sheer variety makes it so its unobtainable. Sure, you get lucky with one piece, but you need five more. I don't use the AH very often, and this is the struggle of someone that doesn't. btw, saying that i dont want to grind, were you referring to gold grinding? i dont think not wanting to gold farm is merit to telling someone to GTFO. calm down man. no ones taking your pizza away from you Why would I be referring to gold grinding? Grinding is all the same. You said gear is unobtainable which is far from true since that's exactly what patch 1.0.3 did - it made the gear obtainable for the people stuck on Act I and II while screwing over those in Act III and IV. And if you think there's variety in gear than you're sadly mistaken... Your post can be summarized into a simple sentence, "I want gear handed to me without any effort." it's funny because people don't seem to realize that it will inevitably fuck everyone over. Now that those players stuck in act1/2 can potentially farm up easier, they will just get to act 3/4 and suffer the same inefficient farming. Perhaps they won't care because they didn't know what it was before, but it's a very short term solution; cut your nose to spite your face type stuff. dont play enough or aren't good enough to progress? Here, progression is now easier. However, the reward for your progress is now 40-66% less. Hope you're happy! this is so true. blizzard is just putting out a band-aid solution here to appease the casuals who are whining about the difficulty/lack of drops. in a month or two people will be complaining about the exact same thing when they're in a3-4 about "waah why do I only have an 8% chance at getting an ilvl 63 item, make it prepatch where it was 20%!"
What makes the least amount of sense too me is that they nerfed the content as well, who cares about lvl 62 drops when you can do act 3/4 with lvl 61 gear now, only reason to play is for HUGE upgrades, and you can't do that at this point, I for one have pretty good gear that i'm not finding upgrades for under 8 mil, and since the new drop rates are like playing the lottery, something I don't do, then I have better use of my time elsewhere.
Should have added drops to act 1/act 2 without nerfing content, or nerfed content and not changed drop rates. Act 3 elite farming you can do with your eyes closed on a barb now, but you don't get anything, as someone who enjoys finding gear, selling on AH, and getting upgrades, new patch is pretty damn awful for me.
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On June 22 2012 06:50 matiK23 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 22 2012 06:18 andrewlt wrote:
I'm going to throw this out there. I had multiple characters kill Diablo in Hell in Diablo 2. From what I remember, I had at least 7 complete the act. I also had quite a few that I abandoned earlier. I never had any one of those characters hit level 90. It was extremely tedious. Roughly mid to high 80s was the highest I ever got.
For me, once I beat the final boss of the final difficulty of the game, the only thing keeping me coming back is character progression. It's fun getting better items to see how much more powerful my character is when I do my next run. Once the time commitment to get incrementally stronger gets too high, I just quit. It's not fun for me anymore. In Diablo 2, that meant leveling until it takes too long to get to the next level for me. It meant farming locations until it took too long to get the next item upgrade.
Diablo 3 patch 1.03, to me, was an improvement in some aspects. I didn't like them reducing guaranteed rares from 5 NV stacks on bosses from 2 to 1. I liked them giving out a guaranteed rare from champion/unique packs. But most of all, I hate how much they nerfed the drop rates in act 3/act 4. I tried a couple of 2-hour runs and am incredibly discouraged by the loot I got. My progression has just hit a brick wall.
The biggest fallacy Blizzard and its defenders is making is the assumption that people will play until they get a perfect character. They assume that if drop rates were nerfed to such a degree that people will get perfect gear in 50 years, people will actually play Diablo 3 for 50 years. People aren't. If drop rates become so low that people don't feel like they are progressing, they're going to quit playing their unfinished characters to play another game.
Right now, I'm very close to that level. Before 1.03, I was already at 200 hours. I was estimating that I would hit 400 hours before I start playing at a lot more casual level. Even if I wasn't getting a lot of upgrades through drops, I was getting enough sellable gear during my Cydaea/Azmodan runs that I could afford to buy stuff from the AH. Once the patch hit, I'm getting fewer good items and I'm seeing fewer good items listed on the AH. After 1.03, I don't feel like farming in inferno any longer. The drop rates for act 3 are just that low and that discouraging. Once my barb hits level 60, I'm probably going to drop D3 immediately. At least you got to experience farming act 3 with your herp derp wizard or DH. What about the 200 hour barb who endlessly grinded act 1 just to not die to act 2 elites? Grinding in a place where you can't progress with the items you find and instead collect every gold that drops and sell decent ilvl 62 items for micro transactions. Sounds like the rich are bitching. Sorry but people didn't find shit in d2 like you did with 20% drop rates pre 1.03. And lol at all the people who said there was longevity in d2 because grinding to lvl 99 meant something. What bullshit, get real people.
I beat inferno the 2nd week of release on my barbarian and have been farming act 3 even since. Don't make class balance whines because you didn't put in enough time, didn't gear properly or are bad.
The 20% drop rate is only 20% chance a rare is ilvl63, not that said rare is any good. Even at 20% ilvl63, getting a valuable rare was quite.. rare..
Also d2 had tremendous longevity because of efficient farming, something d3 didn't really have before, and certainly doesn't any longer. Not to mention the variablitiy of farming depending on what you're looking for as well as good itemization, enough good uniques to keep the carrot fresh and personal trading, selling and chat.
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I'm glad blizzard nerfed A3/4 i63 drop rates, now rare items are actually rare!
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On June 22 2012 07:36 Kokujin wrote:
I'm glad blizzard nerfed A3/4 i63 drop rates, now rare items are actually rare!
something tells me you never farmed act 3/4 before.. you realize getting something good has always been... rare? It wasn't unheard of to have 6-8 hours of runs and find nothing of value over 250k gold and that's fine. Perhaps if the itemization was actually well thought out a lower drop rate would be fine. Though a terrible itemization structure coupled with awful drop rate, is a double whammy of a bad time.
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On June 22 2012 07:05 myBattleship wrote:Show nested quote +On June 22 2012 06:50 matiK23 wrote:On June 22 2012 06:18 andrewlt wrote:
I'm going to throw this out there. I had multiple characters kill Diablo in Hell in Diablo 2. From what I remember, I had at least 7 complete the act. I also had quite a few that I abandoned earlier. I never had any one of those characters hit level 90. It was extremely tedious. Roughly mid to high 80s was the highest I ever got.
For me, once I beat the final boss of the final difficulty of the game, the only thing keeping me coming back is character progression. It's fun getting better items to see how much more powerful my character is when I do my next run. Once the time commitment to get incrementally stronger gets too high, I just quit. It's not fun for me anymore. In Diablo 2, that meant leveling until it takes too long to get to the next level for me. It meant farming locations until it took too long to get the next item upgrade.
Diablo 3 patch 1.03, to me, was an improvement in some aspects. I didn't like them reducing guaranteed rares from 5 NV stacks on bosses from 2 to 1. I liked them giving out a guaranteed rare from champion/unique packs. But most of all, I hate how much they nerfed the drop rates in act 3/act 4. I tried a couple of 2-hour runs and am incredibly discouraged by the loot I got. My progression has just hit a brick wall.
The biggest fallacy Blizzard and its defenders is making is the assumption that people will play until they get a perfect character. They assume that if drop rates were nerfed to such a degree that people will get perfect gear in 50 years, people will actually play Diablo 3 for 50 years. People aren't. If drop rates become so low that people don't feel like they are progressing, they're going to quit playing their unfinished characters to play another game.
Right now, I'm very close to that level. Before 1.03, I was already at 200 hours. I was estimating that I would hit 400 hours before I start playing at a lot more casual level. Even if I wasn't getting a lot of upgrades through drops, I was getting enough sellable gear during my Cydaea/Azmodan runs that I could afford to buy stuff from the AH. Once the patch hit, I'm getting fewer good items and I'm seeing fewer good items listed on the AH. After 1.03, I don't feel like farming in inferno any longer. The drop rates for act 3 are just that low and that discouraging. Once my barb hits level 60, I'm probably going to drop D3 immediately. At least you got to experience farming act 3 with your herp derp wizard or DH. What about the 200 hour barb who endlessly grinded act 1 just to not die to act 2 elites? Grinding in a place where you can't progress with the items you find and instead collect every gold that drops and sell decent ilvl 62 items for micro transactions. Sounds like the rich are bitching. Sorry but people didn't find shit in d2 like you did with 20% drop rates pre 1.03. And lol at all the people who said there was longevity in d2 because grinding to lvl 99 meant something. What bullshit, get real people. there is way more longevity in d2 than in d3. But the whole leveling to 99 is not the reason. It's just something extra, because once you beat diablo on hell. Guess what, when you're farming or just simply playing the game you are leveling. In d3 you are not doing anything past lvl 60 so after you beat inferno diablo there is absolutely nothing else to do, NOTHING.
Getting to level 60 is way too easy. Being max level just to get into inferno seems strange. Not to mention in D2 you could customize your skill builds (you didn't get everything at max level) and your stat builds that made each char more interesting. I remember making multiple sorcs just to play around with different stats and skill synergies, and all of them took time to get them to level 90+. Multiply this by all the chars you could play meant a steady progression of fun content. In D3 there's almost no reason to make another of the same char type since you get everything at max level, so it all basically becomes a BiS contest for items. It makes sense that when you nerf item find (which is basically what D3 has turned into) then the game just seems way less fun.
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Basically in this patch, blizzard has made
1. the game way easier
2. the drops much worse
3. more expensive to play through repair costs
All three things discourage you from playing the game.
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On June 22 2012 07:39 crms wrote:Show nested quote +On June 22 2012 07:36 Kokujin wrote:
I'm glad blizzard nerfed A3/4 i63 drop rates, now rare items are actually rare! something tells me you never farmed act 3/4 before.. you realize getting something good has always been... rare? It wasn't unheard of to have 6-8 hours of runs and find nothing of value over 250k gold and that's fine. Perhaps if the itemization was actually well thought out a lower drop rate would be fine. Though a terrible itemization structure coupled with awful drop rate, is a double whammy of a bad time.
I think the big problem with the drop's right now are that only well itemized and rolled jewelry, 62+ armor or 63 weapons sell for any sum of money(>100k). I was farming act 3 with a monk(yes I know it's a shitty farm class,70mf ftl) both pre and post patch and the most expensive item I sold was a 870dps blue 1h. Some stuff like grants bonus experience is completely useless on 60 gear unless it goes along with the reduce level requirement affix, but at that point it's wasting 2 potential slots on non-endgame affixes
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On June 22 2012 07:44 darkcloud8282 wrote:
Basically in this patch, blizzard has made
1. the game way easier
2. the drops much worse
3. more expensive to play through repair costs
All three things discourage you from playing the game.
Well not really. For a casual diablo 3 player like me, I can finally play public games instead of solo. It was way too frustrating before as I was basically a meat shield, (Act 2, Hell, with Barbarian at the moment.)
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After 20 hours of runs in act 1 and 2 I got 1 item 63 ... (and 1 set armor that is worthless thanks to blizz)
the drop is nowhere near 2% 
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Putting aside whether the drop rate nerf makes you happy or not, it's important to realize the long term effects of this change. By that I mean what's going to happen to the masses. The masses aren't farming A3/4. Dedicated players are. In fact, the masses are using their credit cards to buy items dedicated players were farming in A3/4. Thus the flooded AH/RMAH and deflation in RMAH. Dedicated players are selling, and not buying in the RMAH (they are not using their credit cards). Blizzard wants to stop the milking of the masses, because this is not a sustainable. So, let's allow the masses to farm A3/4 (nerf difficulty). But wait, then the influx of rare items will make the price level go down, and that isn't sustainable either! So, lets nerf drop rates. Now the masses will be selling to the masses, and each transaction=$1 + .15x for Blizzard (motive).
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United States47024 Posts
On June 22 2012 07:50 Psychobabas wrote:Show nested quote +On June 22 2012 07:44 darkcloud8282 wrote:
Basically in this patch, blizzard has made
1. the game way easier
2. the drops much worse
3. more expensive to play through repair costs
All three things discourage you from playing the game. Well not really. For a casual diablo 3 player like me, I can finally play public games instead of solo. It was way too frustrating before as I was basically a meat shield, (Act 2, Hell, with Barbarian at the moment.)
Multiplayer games were fine already with the hotfix to party damage. The inferno nerf wasn't really necessary to help that.
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On June 22 2012 05:42 myBattleship wrote:Show nested quote +On June 22 2012 05:31 willoc wrote:On June 22 2012 03:16 myBattleship wrote:On June 22 2012 02:54 willoc wrote:On June 22 2012 02:46 myBattleship wrote:On June 22 2012 01:48 andrewlt wrote:On June 22 2012 01:00 Ricjames wrote:On June 22 2012 00:43 Heh_ wrote:On June 22 2012 00:32 myBattleship wrote:On June 21 2012 23:48 Technique wrote:
[quote]
1) Lvl 60 is much better, no unfair level advantage in pvp (well maybe not ''unfair'', but who really takes the time to lvl to 99 or even close to that?).
2) Much better with cool down, so you can't just smash the lol full hp button everytime you got yourself in a hard spot.
3) They obviously don't want people to kill 1 boss, leave game and make the next 1.
4) What's wrong with rmah? Personally i stopped using paypal long ago for obvious reasons, but i can still use it as a better ingame currency than gold and perhaps buy some blizz games with it (hopefully hots). There are a few things you clearly don't understand here. And in diablo2 they were resolved, maybe the developers got lucky or maybe they planned it from the start but here's the deal: 1) Let me just say right away, there is no pvp in d3 so your point is already invalid but for the sake of it. Previous instalments had pvp but it was never the focus of the game. You could declare hostility versus a players above lvl 9, so it was never balanced. And blizzard said, they don't want to balance pvp so, what's the point here exactly? On top of that, the main reason why lvl 60 is horrible is because once you're at max level, you have nothing else to do. You can only try and beat the game on hardest difficulty. Okay. You can farm for gear... but why would you? In diablo 2, if you played without rushing, there is no way you could have reached 99 by the end of Hell, specifically in vanilla d2. So in the end you still had some levels ahead of you that you would just get by farming gear. Those levels gave you more stat points and more skill points and you had some higher level gear that you couldn't equip yet until you leveled up. In d3, there is none of that. You just have inferno to beat but there is really nothing to motivate you to do it, combine that with god awful item design and overall loot drop system and you really start having second thoughts. You mention, why would anyone level all the way to 99? Well, you don't have to go all the way up there but it's nice to have something else to look for after you've beaten the game, don't you think? 2) So now, instead of potion spam we have people either chain-ressing each other or just kiting elites to the checkpoint where you can res and get back in the fight immediatly. There is really nothing wrong with potion spam, because it replaces skills that give u regen or healing skills. And now you have more options: Either go with no-regen items and just chug the potions or get some regen and use that as your crutch or just put some defensive healing/lifegaining skills on your bar. Besides, the potions in d3 don't even heal 50% of your hp, in some cases that don't even heal 25%. 3) Bosses drop nothing useful if you don't have valor stacks. So now you HAVE to go out there and kill 5 elite packs before you get to do your boss. It feels like a chore not like a game. If bosses dropped good loot but then elite packs would make that loot even better, yeah I can see how people would go out of their way to hunt down mobs. And besides, what's wrong with killing the same boss over and over? Gaming is very repetitive, in starcraft you have your openings and builds that you refine and you do them over and over again... Why can't I find a way to kill diablo fast and just do that? They have these random events in the world, well how about spawning some rare bosses during those events that drop cool loot. That would encourage players to go out there and do them. 4) There is nothing wrong with rmah, I agree on this one. In d2 you could go online and buy items, no problem. rmah is just an easier ans safer way of doing so. The only problem with rmah in d3, and it's not so much the AH itself but it's that bland, uninspired, boring itemisation in the game. No item feels unique. And partially the reason for that is the whole stats-on-items system that they have gone with. That's for another discussion though Seems like you don't understand. 1) PvP is scheduled to come out in a later patch, and they'll balance it then. PvE is their first priority. Inferno was designed to be an optional difficulty level, for players who completed the game on hell and reached level 60 and "want something more". If you think the item design of D3 is god-awful, think about the design of D2. Not much better, in fact much more terrible. 2) Have fun chain-ressing with the increased repair costs. It was an unintended exploit, and thus it got nerfed. Potion spam is just plain retarded. Now, you actually have to play cautiously and carefully consider potion usage instead of facetanking everything. Although I will agree that a higher level potion should exist, and maybe the cooldown should be reduced to 15-20s. 3) Blizzard specifically didn't want people to do endless boss runs. That's why in patch 1.03, it's equally profitable to kill a boss or an elite, although some bosses are easier to kill because their mechanics are predictable and they don't have crazy affixes. 4) AH and RMAH is good in the sense that item trading is incorporated within the game, and you don't have to visit shady websites. I don't see why you're complaining about "no item feels unique" when D2 was a total fail in that regard. Thank you for some support MyBattleship. He clearly doesn't get it, that's fine. All i want to say that this is hack and slash game, not hack run run run run slash game. I feel like playing wow despite i have never tried it.Inferno being a bonus for people that finished the game on HELL - you have to be kidding me, right? Until inferno the game is a tutorial to try out what skill choices you have and the real game starts on inferno. Unfortunately it also ends right where it started, because you have already reached max. level. Stop making up bullshit about WoW, then. I have a subscription to it from day 1 of release and current D3 doesn't play like WoW at all. In fact, it's not even remotely close. You guys sound like a bunch of teenagers just hating on the cool thing to hate without really knowing anything about it. On June 22 2012 01:48 andrewlt wrote:On June 22 2012 01:00 Ricjames wrote:On June 22 2012 00:43 Heh_ wrote:On June 22 2012 00:32 myBattleship wrote:On June 21 2012 23:48 Technique wrote:
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1) Lvl 60 is much better, no unfair level advantage in pvp (well maybe not ''unfair'', but who really takes the time to lvl to 99 or even close to that?).
2) Much better with cool down, so you can't just smash the lol full hp button everytime you got yourself in a hard spot.
3) They obviously don't want people to kill 1 boss, leave game and make the next 1.
4) What's wrong with rmah? Personally i stopped using paypal long ago for obvious reasons, but i can still use it as a better ingame currency than gold and perhaps buy some blizz games with it (hopefully hots). There are a few things you clearly don't understand here. And in diablo2 they were resolved, maybe the developers got lucky or maybe they planned it from the start but here's the deal: 1) Let me just say right away, there is no pvp in d3 so your point is already invalid but for the sake of it. Previous instalments had pvp but it was never the focus of the game. You could declare hostility versus a players above lvl 9, so it was never balanced. And blizzard said, they don't want to balance pvp so, what's the point here exactly? On top of that, the main reason why lvl 60 is horrible is because once you're at max level, you have nothing else to do. You can only try and beat the game on hardest difficulty. Okay. You can farm for gear... but why would you? In diablo 2, if you played without rushing, there is no way you could have reached 99 by the end of Hell, specifically in vanilla d2. So in the end you still had some levels ahead of you that you would just get by farming gear. Those levels gave you more stat points and more skill points and you had some higher level gear that you couldn't equip yet until you leveled up. In d3, there is none of that. You just have inferno to beat but there is really nothing to motivate you to do it, combine that with god awful item design and overall loot drop system and you really start having second thoughts. You mention, why would anyone level all the way to 99? Well, you don't have to go all the way up there but it's nice to have something else to look for after you've beaten the game, don't you think? 2) So now, instead of potion spam we have people either chain-ressing each other or just kiting elites to the checkpoint where you can res and get back in the fight immediatly. There is really nothing wrong with potion spam, because it replaces skills that give u regen or healing skills. And now you have more options: Either go with no-regen items and just chug the potions or get some regen and use that as your crutch or just put some defensive healing/lifegaining skills on your bar. Besides, the potions in d3 don't even heal 50% of your hp, in some cases that don't even heal 25%. 3) Bosses drop nothing useful if you don't have valor stacks. So now you HAVE to go out there and kill 5 elite packs before you get to do your boss. It feels like a chore not like a game. If bosses dropped good loot but then elite packs would make that loot even better, yeah I can see how people would go out of their way to hunt down mobs. And besides, what's wrong with killing the same boss over and over? Gaming is very repetitive, in starcraft you have your openings and builds that you refine and you do them over and over again... Why can't I find a way to kill diablo fast and just do that? They have these random events in the world, well how about spawning some rare bosses during those events that drop cool loot. That would encourage players to go out there and do them. 4) There is nothing wrong with rmah, I agree on this one. In d2 you could go online and buy items, no problem. rmah is just an easier ans safer way of doing so. The only problem with rmah in d3, and it's not so much the AH itself but it's that bland, uninspired, boring itemisation in the game. No item feels unique. And partially the reason for that is the whole stats-on-items system that they have gone with. That's for another discussion though Seems like you don't understand. 1) PvP is scheduled to come out in a later patch, and they'll balance it then. PvE is their first priority. Inferno was designed to be an optional difficulty level, for players who completed the game on hell and reached level 60 and "want something more". If you think the item design of D3 is god-awful, think about the design of D2. Not much better, in fact much more terrible. 2) Have fun chain-ressing with the increased repair costs. It was an unintended exploit, and thus it got nerfed. Potion spam is just plain retarded. Now, you actually have to play cautiously and carefully consider potion usage instead of facetanking everything. Although I will agree that a higher level potion should exist, and maybe the cooldown should be reduced to 15-20s. 3) Blizzard specifically didn't want people to do endless boss runs. That's why in patch 1.03, it's equally profitable to kill a boss or an elite, although some bosses are easier to kill because their mechanics are predictable and they don't have crazy affixes. 4) AH and RMAH is good in the sense that item trading is incorporated within the game, and you don't have to visit shady websites. I don't see why you're complaining about "no item feels unique" when D2 was a total fail in that regard. Thank you for some support MyBattleship. He clearly doesn't get it, that's fine. All i want to say that this is hack and slash game, not hack run run run run slash game. I feel like playing wow despite i have never tried it.Inferno being a bonus for people that finished the game on HELL - you have to be kidding me, right? Until inferno the game is a tutorial to try out what skill choices you have and the real game starts on inferno. Unfortunately it also ends right where it started, because you have already reached max. level. Stop making up bullshit about WoW, then. I have a subscription to it from day 1 of release and current D3 doesn't play like WoW at all. In fact, it's not even remotely close. You guys sound like a bunch of teenagers just hating on the cool thing to hate without really knowing anything about it. I have played WoW for a long time and while I can confirm that WoW and d3 play differently there are some obvious similarities ranging from minor details to the philosophy behind certain decisions. A couple examples of minor details: - You can't just save & exit, unless you're in town. You have to wait for about 10 seconds before your game ends. In d2 you could save and exit anywhere in the world. Is this a big issue? Probably not, but it's what world of warcraft uses as a model. - You can't really put another skill on your skillbar midcombat or out there in the wilderness. In WoW you have to talk to your trainer to respec your character. You can only find trainers in town. In d3 you dont have to talk anyone but if you want your skills instantly available to u, you have to go to town. In d2 you could just hotkey a skill anywhere anytime. Obviously in d2 you couldn't completely change your skills (until very recently) but if you had all the skills available to you, you could hotkey them or swap them out anytime. - potions usage is exactly the same as in world of warcraft. Potions don't heal for a lot and they have a cooldown. Nothing like it was in d2. Again, is this a big issue? Maybe not, but did we really have to change it? I don't know. As far as some of the design decisions go: - in WoW, you don't really have a boss that you can just go and farm over and over again (yes it's an MMO with a reset timer I know). What I'm getting at here is, in Wow, unless you had a instance where there is just one boss and nothing else, you would have to go and clear trash up to the boss, possibly kill some minor bosses before getting to that last boss you want to kill for some good loot. In d3 you HAVE to go out and get valor stacks before killing a boss because otherwise he doesn't drop anything useful. Obviously it's not identical, but there are threads running through both of these designs, the goal here is to give people that 30min-1hour time (d3) and 1hour-3hours (wow) time frame to work within. A siegebreaker run on my mage takes about 20 to 30 minutes (solo). And my azmodan runs took me about 30 to 40 minutes (in group of 3 or 4). On inferno obviously. - level cap. I'm not referring to level 60 cap directly, I'm just saying that the real endgame (best loot, hardest encounters) start at max level cap. But why? Why can't we level in inferno? There is nothing to look forward to, because we have already killed all the bosses 3 times by this point. We have all the skills. You can say the gear is what drives you and also the desire to complete the game. However, the gear problem is there. lvl 60 gear has item levels and they reflect it's quality. So if you have a lvl 60 500dps bow it's useless because there is a lvl 60 1000 dps bow. If that 1000dps bow required your character to be level 65, that's a different story. - item progression: Like I mentioned in my previous point. item level reflects the quality of the item so unless an item has some specific properties, unique properties, you're just looking to upgrade the item level. Bracers with 50 int and lvl requirment 60 will get replaced by bracers that give you 100 int and require that same lvl 60. But what if the bracers with 50 int had some cool additional stat to go with them? D3 has a few, but only very few items like this. Lacuni prawlers (bracers) gave you attack speed and movement speed, regular rare bracers don'tspawn with these properties so you have a choice there. But there needs to be more of these items, especially on the weapons front. these are just a few points. There are obviously more but I think the ones I mentioned are pretty obvious. And I want to emphasize that I dont hate d3, I have close to 250 hours played on 3 different characters, 2 of which I have cleared inferno with. I've stopped playing and the main reason for that is there is nothing to do in inferno. Not to mention that the combat mechanics, target aquisition, monster AI, world persistence, character controls and numerous other things are completely different. Hey that's pretty cool. things you list, a lot of them were in diablo2 and they remained the same. great! But why did they borrow from WoW so many things that really had no place in a diablo game? Can you please explain to me? I don't think so. By the way, world persistence... Are you trying to tell me that a MMO is different from a single player game with multiplayer component? lol Come on now m8, please. You had to really scrape the bottom of the barrel to come up with these things. Actually, I can tell you why. But first, please stop being so pig-headed (stubborn) and rude when discussing this. In an interview they said that they were not trying to recreate diablo 2 or diablo 1. They were making a new game and wanted to change some things up that they thought could be done better (like potions, leveling, skill system, etc.). To sum it up: If you want to play diablo 2, go play diablo 2. Their intent was not to make diablo 2 version 2. Will their ideas work? I think so but it's still to early to tell. By your comments I can basically tell you didn't play diablo 2 when it was first released as it basically sucked shit compared to what it was after a couple of patches, the expansion and then a couple more patches. Diablo 2, especially after normal difficulty, was ridiculously broken in terms of items and skills when it was first released and it didn't get fixed until months later. I have played it at release and yeah it wasn't that great but it wasn't god awful. And I have over 200 hours in d3, I don't hate the game, I'm just saying it has no staying power, no longevity. The thing is, are you looking for d3 to be better or at least as good as diablo 1/2? Or are you looking for it to be just slightly better than what d2 at release was? One of their interviews mentioned that d3 had more unique (legendary) items than d2. But guess what, they only had a few more items than d2's release product. If you look at d2:LOD and the patches, d3 has like 5 or more times less items. They have 4 gems... d2 had more gems and all the runes and jewels. d2 also had more socketable items even though d3 has more items to equip. d3 is just unfinished and their "new" and "better" design decisions are in fact not better and not new. Again, I don't want to harp on their simplified stats system but, in d2 most of points usually went in to stamina/vitality (= what they call "no choice" or "no variety") and yet in d3 you don't even have a choice where you stats go. Everyone is just looking for their main damage stat and vitality (haha). There is no variety either.
I'll agree with you on the legendaries: they totally messed up in that regards. In terms of longevity, it's hard to tell yet and future patches may correct it as well (just like they did with d2; if they didn't patch d2, it wouldn't of had the longevity it has).
I wouldn't say it's horrible right now but everyone is entitled to their opinion. Good day sir.
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I find funny that people cites diablo 2 all the times but forget its main "core" staff made TL and not d3
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I'm to lazy to make rebuttals to certain points (though I agree with some). To put it simply: D3 has its good and bad parts, just like every other game out there. The devs fucked up quite a lot of things during release, and guess what: many games are like that too. You can only find out so many bugs/exploits/glitches from beta testing unless you do it like Dota2 (which Blizz won't do because they don't want to reveal all the content, duh). Complain all you like. 99% of the complaints are simply ignored. If Blizzard made hotfixes to appease everyone, you're gonna end up with one trainwreck of a game that no one will like. If you're unhappy with D3, you can quit this game. Sell all your gear on the RMAH and hope to turn a profit. If you're unhappy with Blizzard, then stop buying their games. No one's forcing you to buy HotS, LotV and any D3 expansion.
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While I think the game is enjoyable, fun, and worth the buy there are certain things that surprise me basically just because I've come to expect more from Blizzard. For one, the boss fights are very simplistic. When looking at WoW-boss fights (and ofcourse there's a difference here because it's easyer to make bosses for a raid of people rather then 1-4 complex) their complexity, required learning and general difficulty and entertainment level are so much higher then those of Diablo (where basically everything comes down to "dont stand in the firey bit".
Then there's one that I personally really dislike, mostly because I love comming up with builds and strategies and such, is the lack of viability of a lot of skills. Obviously not everything has been found out yet, but the fact that for almost every class there's only a handfull of really viable builds, most of which include about 3-4 overlapping "must have" skills is troubling to say the least. Blizzard is such a powerhouse when it comes to creating an interesting balance between classes, skills, units (SC) etc, I'm very surprised that there are some fairly glaring inequalities in skill/rune viability.
The last thing is the randomness of pack difficulty in Inferno. Some packs are simply nigh-impossible to beat. If you're ranged and you come across some waller-jailer-mortar-reflect damage mobs in a cave then that's pretty much good-night for you. Then again if you come across say Molten-Plagued-ExtraLife-FireChains they are generally a walk in the park. Also the type of mob that actually gets these abilities (ranging from a fallen with no abilities of itself to a teleporting, often untargettable fast flying gost) means that how hard to kill a pack is so friggin random it gets frustrating as hell.
Still, let me finish by saying that I do really enjoy D3, I just expected more from Blizzard =)
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