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Rare items drop more rarely, don't they?
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On June 22 2012 02:13 trinxified wrote:Show nested quote +On June 22 2012 02:09 FrOsTyy wrote:I'll start with, lol fuckin noobs! Okay read on.  In dedication to those who say "the game is too hard" or "it cost me more to repair than i can even make from farming". Its obvious these people have no idea how the game works. Their characters are under geared for the location their are trying to farm. I have a great idea. Let's go back to the gold old days where we could call a spade a spade, or in this case a noob a noob and not get warned by Teamliquid. These people whining are all noobs and I think its time we band together, point, and laugh at all these noobs who can't survive. Lol fuckin noobs! ^_^ The repair costs are pretty high regardless, since even without dying, you'll need to cough up about 1k gold after 5-10 minutes, since you lose durability over time.... Why not just increase the durability loss when dying to like 30-50%, instead of raising the costs altogether? That actually avoids rezzing to many times to kill one pack, since you'll have to TP for repairs.
Blizzard said they are going to reduce the natural wear on items. Its one of the recent blue posts on the bnet forums.
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On June 22 2012 01:50 SkyTheUnknown wrote:Show nested quote +On June 22 2012 00:11 DannyJ wrote:My god these drop rates are killing me. Collected almost 2 full pages of rares in my stash from act 3 and there was only like 5 that werent vendor trash. Why Blizzard  They are doing this to make money over RMAH. Surprised how many people of you don't get this. '
Quick, get the tinfoil hats! You do realize if they make good items drop less, then there will be less good items on the RMAH right?
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agreed the loot is fucking terrible its ruining the fun for sure... it feels literally like a COMPLETE waste of time.
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On June 22 2012 02:29 ZasZ. wrote:Show nested quote +On June 22 2012 01:50 SkyTheUnknown wrote:On June 22 2012 00:11 DannyJ wrote:My god these drop rates are killing me. Collected almost 2 full pages of rares in my stash from act 3 and there was only like 5 that werent vendor trash. Why Blizzard They are doing this to make money over RMAH. Surprised how many people of you don't get this. ' Quick, get the tinfoil hats! You do realize if they make good items drop less, then there will be less good items on the RMAH right?
ok and you powers of deductive reasoning should therefor lead you to a few conclusions
1) less transaction = less load and lower cost === tax free profit (and lower costs to 3rd party suppliers)
2) transactions are higher = moar dosh
so your point was what exaclty?
ps p[otion cooldown sucks ... id much prefer a potion having a rate of healing and let me spam lots (ie no lol full health madness)
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[deleted - no idea how i quoted myself instead of editing :/]
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On June 22 2012 01:48 andrewlt wrote:Show nested quote +On June 22 2012 01:00 Ricjames wrote:On June 22 2012 00:43 Heh_ wrote:On June 22 2012 00:32 myBattleship wrote:On June 21 2012 23:48 Technique wrote:On June 21 2012 23:42 Ricjames wrote:
BTW all they needed to do are the following:
1) redefine difficulty levels and make max. char level 99
2) remove freakin cooldown from potions and make potions expensive
3) make bosses drop better loot and make them twice as hard
4) optional but not possible - remove RMAH
Then we would have Diablo game instead of some crappy wow hybrid.
1) Lvl 60 is much better, no unfair level advantage in pvp (well maybe not ''unfair'', but who really takes the time to lvl to 99 or even close to that?). 2) Much better with cool down, so you can't just smash the lol full hp button everytime you got yourself in a hard spot. 3) They obviously don't want people to kill 1 boss, leave game and make the next 1. 4) What's wrong with rmah? Personally i stopped using paypal long ago for obvious reasons, but i can still use it as a better ingame currency than gold and perhaps buy some blizz games with it (hopefully hots). There are a few things you clearly don't understand here. And in diablo2 they were resolved, maybe the developers got lucky or maybe they planned it from the start but here's the deal: 1) Let me just say right away, there is no pvp in d3 so your point is already invalid but for the sake of it. Previous instalments had pvp but it was never the focus of the game. You could declare hostility versus a players above lvl 9, so it was never balanced. And blizzard said, they don't want to balance pvp so, what's the point here exactly? On top of that, the main reason why lvl 60 is horrible is because once you're at max level, you have nothing else to do. You can only try and beat the game on hardest difficulty. Okay. You can farm for gear... but why would you? In diablo 2, if you played without rushing, there is no way you could have reached 99 by the end of Hell, specifically in vanilla d2. So in the end you still had some levels ahead of you that you would just get by farming gear. Those levels gave you more stat points and more skill points and you had some higher level gear that you couldn't equip yet until you leveled up. In d3, there is none of that. You just have inferno to beat but there is really nothing to motivate you to do it, combine that with god awful item design and overall loot drop system and you really start having second thoughts. You mention, why would anyone level all the way to 99? Well, you don't have to go all the way up there but it's nice to have something else to look for after you've beaten the game, don't you think? 2) So now, instead of potion spam we have people either chain-ressing each other or just kiting elites to the checkpoint where you can res and get back in the fight immediatly. There is really nothing wrong with potion spam, because it replaces skills that give u regen or healing skills. And now you have more options: Either go with no-regen items and just chug the potions or get some regen and use that as your crutch or just put some defensive healing/lifegaining skills on your bar. Besides, the potions in d3 don't even heal 50% of your hp, in some cases that don't even heal 25%. 3) Bosses drop nothing useful if you don't have valor stacks. So now you HAVE to go out there and kill 5 elite packs before you get to do your boss. It feels like a chore not like a game. If bosses dropped good loot but then elite packs would make that loot even better, yeah I can see how people would go out of their way to hunt down mobs. And besides, what's wrong with killing the same boss over and over? Gaming is very repetitive, in starcraft you have your openings and builds that you refine and you do them over and over again... Why can't I find a way to kill diablo fast and just do that? They have these random events in the world, well how about spawning some rare bosses during those events that drop cool loot. That would encourage players to go out there and do them. 4) There is nothing wrong with rmah, I agree on this one. In d2 you could go online and buy items, no problem. rmah is just an easier ans safer way of doing so. The only problem with rmah in d3, and it's not so much the AH itself but it's that bland, uninspired, boring itemisation in the game. No item feels unique. And partially the reason for that is the whole stats-on-items system that they have gone with. That's for another discussion though  Seems like you don't understand. 1) PvP is scheduled to come out in a later patch, and they'll balance it then. PvE is their first priority. Inferno was designed to be an optional difficulty level, for players who completed the game on hell and reached level 60 and "want something more". If you think the item design of D3 is god-awful, think about the design of D2. Not much better, in fact much more terrible. 2) Have fun chain-ressing with the increased repair costs. It was an unintended exploit, and thus it got nerfed. Potion spam is just plain retarded. Now, you actually have to play cautiously and carefully consider potion usage instead of facetanking everything. Although I will agree that a higher level potion should exist, and maybe the cooldown should be reduced to 15-20s. 3) Blizzard specifically didn't want people to do endless boss runs. That's why in patch 1.03, it's equally profitable to kill a boss or an elite, although some bosses are easier to kill because their mechanics are predictable and they don't have crazy affixes. 4) AH and RMAH is good in the sense that item trading is incorporated within the game, and you don't have to visit shady websites. I don't see why you're complaining about "no item feels unique" when D2 was a total fail in that regard. Thank you for some support MyBattleship. He clearly doesn't get it, that's fine. All i want to say that this is hack and slash game, not hack run run run run slash game. I feel like playing wow despite i have never tried it.Inferno being a bonus for people that finished the game on HELL - you have to be kidding me, right? Until inferno the game is a tutorial to try out what skill choices you have and the real game starts on inferno. Unfortunately it also ends right where it started, because you have already reached max. level. Stop making up bullshit about WoW, then. I have a subscription to it from day 1 of release and current D3 doesn't play like WoW at all. In fact, it's not even remotely close. You guys sound like a bunch of teenagers just hating on the cool thing to hate without really knowing anything about it.
Dude! don't you understand that people who haven't tried something are the REAL experts at it? WoW is totally a "hack run run run run slash game". This guy should be hired by Blizzard but he is probably too smart for them so what are we gonna do? I guess hack run run run run slash.
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I said it before and I'll say it again, there aren't less high end items dropping. They are just dropping over a larger percentage of the population.
If blizzard kept the old a3/4 drop rate with the new earlier drop rates the market would get flooded with high end items, everyone would have bis items and there would be no more reason to grind. Pulling numbers out of my arse, say 1% of the population was farming act 3/4 before 1.03 while 2% of the population was stuck in act 2 and 5% in act 1. That is a 700% increase to the amount of ppl now able to farm end game items. You can't have the old drop rates with the new drop rates without totally fucking itemization.
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On June 22 2012 02:40 serum321 wrote:
I said it before and I'll say it again, there aren't less high end items dropping. They are just dropping over a larger percentage of the population.
If blizzard kept the old a3/4 drop rate with the new earlier drop rates the market would get flooded with high end items, everyone would have bis items and there would be no more reason to grind. Pulling numbers out of my arse, say 1% of the population was farming act 3/4 before 1.03 while 2% of the population was stuck in act 2 and 5% in act 1. That is a 700% increase to the amount of ppl now able to farm end game items. You can't have the old drop rates with the new drop rates without totally fucking itemization.
Good analysis. Fully agree.
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On June 22 2012 02:40 serum321 wrote:
I said it before and I'll say it again, there aren't less high end items dropping. They are just dropping over a larger percentage of the population.
If blizzard kept the old a3/4 drop rate with the new earlier drop rates the market would get flooded with high end items, everyone would have bis items and there would be no more reason to grind. Pulling numbers out of my arse, say 1% of the population was farming act 3/4 before 1.03 while 2% of the population was stuck in act 2 and 5% in act 1. That is a 700% increase to the amount of ppl now able to farm end game items. You can't have the old drop rates with the new drop rates without totally fucking itemization.
What I'm curious is does anybody actually know the drop rates for ilvl63 items pre 1.03? The numbers that have been thrown around (20-25%) seem to have been pulled out of somebody's arse..
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On June 22 2012 01:48 andrewlt wrote:Show nested quote +On June 22 2012 01:00 Ricjames wrote:On June 22 2012 00:43 Heh_ wrote:On June 22 2012 00:32 myBattleship wrote:On June 21 2012 23:48 Technique wrote:On June 21 2012 23:42 Ricjames wrote:
BTW all they needed to do are the following:
1) redefine difficulty levels and make max. char level 99
2) remove freakin cooldown from potions and make potions expensive
3) make bosses drop better loot and make them twice as hard
4) optional but not possible - remove RMAH
Then we would have Diablo game instead of some crappy wow hybrid.
1) Lvl 60 is much better, no unfair level advantage in pvp (well maybe not ''unfair'', but who really takes the time to lvl to 99 or even close to that?). 2) Much better with cool down, so you can't just smash the lol full hp button everytime you got yourself in a hard spot. 3) They obviously don't want people to kill 1 boss, leave game and make the next 1. 4) What's wrong with rmah? Personally i stopped using paypal long ago for obvious reasons, but i can still use it as a better ingame currency than gold and perhaps buy some blizz games with it (hopefully hots). There are a few things you clearly don't understand here. And in diablo2 they were resolved, maybe the developers got lucky or maybe they planned it from the start but here's the deal: 1) Let me just say right away, there is no pvp in d3 so your point is already invalid but for the sake of it. Previous instalments had pvp but it was never the focus of the game. You could declare hostility versus a players above lvl 9, so it was never balanced. And blizzard said, they don't want to balance pvp so, what's the point here exactly? On top of that, the main reason why lvl 60 is horrible is because once you're at max level, you have nothing else to do. You can only try and beat the game on hardest difficulty. Okay. You can farm for gear... but why would you? In diablo 2, if you played without rushing, there is no way you could have reached 99 by the end of Hell, specifically in vanilla d2. So in the end you still had some levels ahead of you that you would just get by farming gear. Those levels gave you more stat points and more skill points and you had some higher level gear that you couldn't equip yet until you leveled up. In d3, there is none of that. You just have inferno to beat but there is really nothing to motivate you to do it, combine that with god awful item design and overall loot drop system and you really start having second thoughts. You mention, why would anyone level all the way to 99? Well, you don't have to go all the way up there but it's nice to have something else to look for after you've beaten the game, don't you think? 2) So now, instead of potion spam we have people either chain-ressing each other or just kiting elites to the checkpoint where you can res and get back in the fight immediatly. There is really nothing wrong with potion spam, because it replaces skills that give u regen or healing skills. And now you have more options: Either go with no-regen items and just chug the potions or get some regen and use that as your crutch or just put some defensive healing/lifegaining skills on your bar. Besides, the potions in d3 don't even heal 50% of your hp, in some cases that don't even heal 25%. 3) Bosses drop nothing useful if you don't have valor stacks. So now you HAVE to go out there and kill 5 elite packs before you get to do your boss. It feels like a chore not like a game. If bosses dropped good loot but then elite packs would make that loot even better, yeah I can see how people would go out of their way to hunt down mobs. And besides, what's wrong with killing the same boss over and over? Gaming is very repetitive, in starcraft you have your openings and builds that you refine and you do them over and over again... Why can't I find a way to kill diablo fast and just do that? They have these random events in the world, well how about spawning some rare bosses during those events that drop cool loot. That would encourage players to go out there and do them. 4) There is nothing wrong with rmah, I agree on this one. In d2 you could go online and buy items, no problem. rmah is just an easier ans safer way of doing so. The only problem with rmah in d3, and it's not so much the AH itself but it's that bland, uninspired, boring itemisation in the game. No item feels unique. And partially the reason for that is the whole stats-on-items system that they have gone with. That's for another discussion though Seems like you don't understand. 1) PvP is scheduled to come out in a later patch, and they'll balance it then. PvE is their first priority. Inferno was designed to be an optional difficulty level, for players who completed the game on hell and reached level 60 and "want something more". If you think the item design of D3 is god-awful, think about the design of D2. Not much better, in fact much more terrible. 2) Have fun chain-ressing with the increased repair costs. It was an unintended exploit, and thus it got nerfed. Potion spam is just plain retarded. Now, you actually have to play cautiously and carefully consider potion usage instead of facetanking everything. Although I will agree that a higher level potion should exist, and maybe the cooldown should be reduced to 15-20s. 3) Blizzard specifically didn't want people to do endless boss runs. That's why in patch 1.03, it's equally profitable to kill a boss or an elite, although some bosses are easier to kill because their mechanics are predictable and they don't have crazy affixes. 4) AH and RMAH is good in the sense that item trading is incorporated within the game, and you don't have to visit shady websites. I don't see why you're complaining about "no item feels unique" when D2 was a total fail in that regard. Thank you for some support MyBattleship. He clearly doesn't get it, that's fine. All i want to say that this is hack and slash game, not hack run run run run slash game. I feel like playing wow despite i have never tried it.Inferno being a bonus for people that finished the game on HELL - you have to be kidding me, right? Until inferno the game is a tutorial to try out what skill choices you have and the real game starts on inferno. Unfortunately it also ends right where it started, because you have already reached max. level. Stop making up bullshit about WoW, then. I have a subscription to it from day 1 of release and current D3 doesn't play like WoW at all. In fact, it's not even remotely close. You guys sound like a bunch of teenagers just hating on the cool thing to hate without really knowing anything about it.
On June 22 2012 01:48 andrewlt wrote:Show nested quote +On June 22 2012 01:00 Ricjames wrote:On June 22 2012 00:43 Heh_ wrote:On June 22 2012 00:32 myBattleship wrote:On June 21 2012 23:48 Technique wrote:On June 21 2012 23:42 Ricjames wrote:
BTW all they needed to do are the following:
1) redefine difficulty levels and make max. char level 99
2) remove freakin cooldown from potions and make potions expensive
3) make bosses drop better loot and make them twice as hard
4) optional but not possible - remove RMAH
Then we would have Diablo game instead of some crappy wow hybrid.
1) Lvl 60 is much better, no unfair level advantage in pvp (well maybe not ''unfair'', but who really takes the time to lvl to 99 or even close to that?). 2) Much better with cool down, so you can't just smash the lol full hp button everytime you got yourself in a hard spot. 3) They obviously don't want people to kill 1 boss, leave game and make the next 1. 4) What's wrong with rmah? Personally i stopped using paypal long ago for obvious reasons, but i can still use it as a better ingame currency than gold and perhaps buy some blizz games with it (hopefully hots). There are a few things you clearly don't understand here. And in diablo2 they were resolved, maybe the developers got lucky or maybe they planned it from the start but here's the deal: 1) Let me just say right away, there is no pvp in d3 so your point is already invalid but for the sake of it. Previous instalments had pvp but it was never the focus of the game. You could declare hostility versus a players above lvl 9, so it was never balanced. And blizzard said, they don't want to balance pvp so, what's the point here exactly? On top of that, the main reason why lvl 60 is horrible is because once you're at max level, you have nothing else to do. You can only try and beat the game on hardest difficulty. Okay. You can farm for gear... but why would you? In diablo 2, if you played without rushing, there is no way you could have reached 99 by the end of Hell, specifically in vanilla d2. So in the end you still had some levels ahead of you that you would just get by farming gear. Those levels gave you more stat points and more skill points and you had some higher level gear that you couldn't equip yet until you leveled up. In d3, there is none of that. You just have inferno to beat but there is really nothing to motivate you to do it, combine that with god awful item design and overall loot drop system and you really start having second thoughts. You mention, why would anyone level all the way to 99? Well, you don't have to go all the way up there but it's nice to have something else to look for after you've beaten the game, don't you think? 2) So now, instead of potion spam we have people either chain-ressing each other or just kiting elites to the checkpoint where you can res and get back in the fight immediatly. There is really nothing wrong with potion spam, because it replaces skills that give u regen or healing skills. And now you have more options: Either go with no-regen items and just chug the potions or get some regen and use that as your crutch or just put some defensive healing/lifegaining skills on your bar. Besides, the potions in d3 don't even heal 50% of your hp, in some cases that don't even heal 25%. 3) Bosses drop nothing useful if you don't have valor stacks. So now you HAVE to go out there and kill 5 elite packs before you get to do your boss. It feels like a chore not like a game. If bosses dropped good loot but then elite packs would make that loot even better, yeah I can see how people would go out of their way to hunt down mobs. And besides, what's wrong with killing the same boss over and over? Gaming is very repetitive, in starcraft you have your openings and builds that you refine and you do them over and over again... Why can't I find a way to kill diablo fast and just do that? They have these random events in the world, well how about spawning some rare bosses during those events that drop cool loot. That would encourage players to go out there and do them. 4) There is nothing wrong with rmah, I agree on this one. In d2 you could go online and buy items, no problem. rmah is just an easier ans safer way of doing so. The only problem with rmah in d3, and it's not so much the AH itself but it's that bland, uninspired, boring itemisation in the game. No item feels unique. And partially the reason for that is the whole stats-on-items system that they have gone with. That's for another discussion though Seems like you don't understand. 1) PvP is scheduled to come out in a later patch, and they'll balance it then. PvE is their first priority. Inferno was designed to be an optional difficulty level, for players who completed the game on hell and reached level 60 and "want something more". If you think the item design of D3 is god-awful, think about the design of D2. Not much better, in fact much more terrible. 2) Have fun chain-ressing with the increased repair costs. It was an unintended exploit, and thus it got nerfed. Potion spam is just plain retarded. Now, you actually have to play cautiously and carefully consider potion usage instead of facetanking everything. Although I will agree that a higher level potion should exist, and maybe the cooldown should be reduced to 15-20s. 3) Blizzard specifically didn't want people to do endless boss runs. That's why in patch 1.03, it's equally profitable to kill a boss or an elite, although some bosses are easier to kill because their mechanics are predictable and they don't have crazy affixes. 4) AH and RMAH is good in the sense that item trading is incorporated within the game, and you don't have to visit shady websites. I don't see why you're complaining about "no item feels unique" when D2 was a total fail in that regard. Thank you for some support MyBattleship. He clearly doesn't get it, that's fine. All i want to say that this is hack and slash game, not hack run run run run slash game. I feel like playing wow despite i have never tried it.Inferno being a bonus for people that finished the game on HELL - you have to be kidding me, right? Until inferno the game is a tutorial to try out what skill choices you have and the real game starts on inferno. Unfortunately it also ends right where it started, because you have already reached max. level. Stop making up bullshit about WoW, then. I have a subscription to it from day 1 of release and current D3 doesn't play like WoW at all. In fact, it's not even remotely close. You guys sound like a bunch of teenagers just hating on the cool thing to hate without really knowing anything about it.
I have played WoW for a long time and while I can confirm that WoW and d3 play differently there are some obvious similarities ranging from minor details to the philosophy behind certain decisions.
A couple examples of minor details:
- You can't just save & exit, unless you're in town. You have to wait for about 10 seconds before your game ends. In d2 you could save and exit anywhere in the world. Is this a big issue? Probably not, but it's what world of warcraft uses as a model.
- You can't really put another skill on your skillbar midcombat or out there in the wilderness. In WoW you have to talk to your trainer to respec your character. You can only find trainers in town. In d3 you dont have to talk anyone but if you want your skills instantly available to u, you have to go to town. In d2 you could just hotkey a skill anywhere anytime. Obviously in d2 you couldn't completely change your skills (until very recently) but if you had all the skills available to you, you could hotkey them or swap them out anytime.
- potions usage is exactly the same as in world of warcraft. Potions don't heal for a lot and they have a cooldown. Nothing like it was in d2. Again, is this a big issue? Maybe not, but did we really have to change it? I don't know.
As far as some of the design decisions go:
- in WoW, you don't really have a boss that you can just go and farm over and over again (yes it's an MMO with a reset timer I know). What I'm getting at here is, in Wow, unless you had a instance where there is just one boss and nothing else, you would have to go and clear trash up to the boss, possibly kill some minor bosses before getting to that last boss you want to kill for some good loot. In d3 you HAVE to go out and get valor stacks before killing a boss because otherwise he doesn't drop anything useful. Obviously it's not identical, but there are threads running through both of these designs, the goal here is to give people that 30min-1hour time (d3) and 1hour-3hours (wow) time frame to work within. A siegebreaker run on my mage takes about 20 to 30 minutes (solo). And my azmodan runs took me about 30 to 40 minutes (in group of 3 or 4). On inferno obviously.
- level cap. I'm not referring to level 60 cap directly, I'm just saying that the real endgame (best loot, hardest encounters) start at max level cap. But why? Why can't we level in inferno? There is nothing to look forward to, because we have already killed all the bosses 3 times by this point. We have all the skills. You can say the gear is what drives you and also the desire to complete the game. However, the gear problem is there. lvl 60 gear has item levels and they reflect it's quality. So if you have a lvl 60 500dps bow it's useless because there is a lvl 60 1000 dps bow. If that 1000dps bow required your character to be level 65, that's a different story.
- item progression: Like I mentioned in my previous point. item level reflects the quality of the item so unless an item has some specific properties, unique properties, you're just looking to upgrade the item level. Bracers with 50 int and lvl requirment 60 will get replaced by bracers that give you 100 int and require that same lvl 60. But what if the bracers with 50 int had some cool additional stat to go with them? D3 has a few, but only very few items like this. Lacuni prawlers (bracers) gave you attack speed and movement speed, regular rare bracers don'tspawn with these properties so you have a choice there. But there needs to be more of these items, especially on the weapons front.
these are just a few points. There are obviously more but I think the ones I mentioned are pretty obvious.
And I want to emphasize that I dont hate d3, I have close to 250 hours played on 3 different characters, 2 of which I have cleared inferno with. I've stopped playing and the main reason for that is there is nothing to do in inferno.
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On June 22 2012 02:46 myBattleship wrote:Show nested quote +On June 22 2012 01:48 andrewlt wrote:On June 22 2012 01:00 Ricjames wrote:On June 22 2012 00:43 Heh_ wrote:On June 22 2012 00:32 myBattleship wrote:On June 21 2012 23:48 Technique wrote:On June 21 2012 23:42 Ricjames wrote:
BTW all they needed to do are the following:
1) redefine difficulty levels and make max. char level 99
2) remove freakin cooldown from potions and make potions expensive
3) make bosses drop better loot and make them twice as hard
4) optional but not possible - remove RMAH
Then we would have Diablo game instead of some crappy wow hybrid.
1) Lvl 60 is much better, no unfair level advantage in pvp (well maybe not ''unfair'', but who really takes the time to lvl to 99 or even close to that?). 2) Much better with cool down, so you can't just smash the lol full hp button everytime you got yourself in a hard spot. 3) They obviously don't want people to kill 1 boss, leave game and make the next 1. 4) What's wrong with rmah? Personally i stopped using paypal long ago for obvious reasons, but i can still use it as a better ingame currency than gold and perhaps buy some blizz games with it (hopefully hots). There are a few things you clearly don't understand here. And in diablo2 they were resolved, maybe the developers got lucky or maybe they planned it from the start but here's the deal: 1) Let me just say right away, there is no pvp in d3 so your point is already invalid but for the sake of it. Previous instalments had pvp but it was never the focus of the game. You could declare hostility versus a players above lvl 9, so it was never balanced. And blizzard said, they don't want to balance pvp so, what's the point here exactly? On top of that, the main reason why lvl 60 is horrible is because once you're at max level, you have nothing else to do. You can only try and beat the game on hardest difficulty. Okay. You can farm for gear... but why would you? In diablo 2, if you played without rushing, there is no way you could have reached 99 by the end of Hell, specifically in vanilla d2. So in the end you still had some levels ahead of you that you would just get by farming gear. Those levels gave you more stat points and more skill points and you had some higher level gear that you couldn't equip yet until you leveled up. In d3, there is none of that. You just have inferno to beat but there is really nothing to motivate you to do it, combine that with god awful item design and overall loot drop system and you really start having second thoughts. You mention, why would anyone level all the way to 99? Well, you don't have to go all the way up there but it's nice to have something else to look for after you've beaten the game, don't you think? 2) So now, instead of potion spam we have people either chain-ressing each other or just kiting elites to the checkpoint where you can res and get back in the fight immediatly. There is really nothing wrong with potion spam, because it replaces skills that give u regen or healing skills. And now you have more options: Either go with no-regen items and just chug the potions or get some regen and use that as your crutch or just put some defensive healing/lifegaining skills on your bar. Besides, the potions in d3 don't even heal 50% of your hp, in some cases that don't even heal 25%. 3) Bosses drop nothing useful if you don't have valor stacks. So now you HAVE to go out there and kill 5 elite packs before you get to do your boss. It feels like a chore not like a game. If bosses dropped good loot but then elite packs would make that loot even better, yeah I can see how people would go out of their way to hunt down mobs. And besides, what's wrong with killing the same boss over and over? Gaming is very repetitive, in starcraft you have your openings and builds that you refine and you do them over and over again... Why can't I find a way to kill diablo fast and just do that? They have these random events in the world, well how about spawning some rare bosses during those events that drop cool loot. That would encourage players to go out there and do them. 4) There is nothing wrong with rmah, I agree on this one. In d2 you could go online and buy items, no problem. rmah is just an easier ans safer way of doing so. The only problem with rmah in d3, and it's not so much the AH itself but it's that bland, uninspired, boring itemisation in the game. No item feels unique. And partially the reason for that is the whole stats-on-items system that they have gone with. That's for another discussion though Seems like you don't understand. 1) PvP is scheduled to come out in a later patch, and they'll balance it then. PvE is their first priority. Inferno was designed to be an optional difficulty level, for players who completed the game on hell and reached level 60 and "want something more". If you think the item design of D3 is god-awful, think about the design of D2. Not much better, in fact much more terrible. 2) Have fun chain-ressing with the increased repair costs. It was an unintended exploit, and thus it got nerfed. Potion spam is just plain retarded. Now, you actually have to play cautiously and carefully consider potion usage instead of facetanking everything. Although I will agree that a higher level potion should exist, and maybe the cooldown should be reduced to 15-20s. 3) Blizzard specifically didn't want people to do endless boss runs. That's why in patch 1.03, it's equally profitable to kill a boss or an elite, although some bosses are easier to kill because their mechanics are predictable and they don't have crazy affixes. 4) AH and RMAH is good in the sense that item trading is incorporated within the game, and you don't have to visit shady websites. I don't see why you're complaining about "no item feels unique" when D2 was a total fail in that regard. Thank you for some support MyBattleship. He clearly doesn't get it, that's fine. All i want to say that this is hack and slash game, not hack run run run run slash game. I feel like playing wow despite i have never tried it.Inferno being a bonus for people that finished the game on HELL - you have to be kidding me, right? Until inferno the game is a tutorial to try out what skill choices you have and the real game starts on inferno. Unfortunately it also ends right where it started, because you have already reached max. level. Stop making up bullshit about WoW, then. I have a subscription to it from day 1 of release and current D3 doesn't play like WoW at all. In fact, it's not even remotely close. You guys sound like a bunch of teenagers just hating on the cool thing to hate without really knowing anything about it. Show nested quote +On June 22 2012 01:48 andrewlt wrote:On June 22 2012 01:00 Ricjames wrote:On June 22 2012 00:43 Heh_ wrote:On June 22 2012 00:32 myBattleship wrote:On June 21 2012 23:48 Technique wrote:On June 21 2012 23:42 Ricjames wrote:
BTW all they needed to do are the following:
1) redefine difficulty levels and make max. char level 99
2) remove freakin cooldown from potions and make potions expensive
3) make bosses drop better loot and make them twice as hard
4) optional but not possible - remove RMAH
Then we would have Diablo game instead of some crappy wow hybrid.
1) Lvl 60 is much better, no unfair level advantage in pvp (well maybe not ''unfair'', but who really takes the time to lvl to 99 or even close to that?). 2) Much better with cool down, so you can't just smash the lol full hp button everytime you got yourself in a hard spot. 3) They obviously don't want people to kill 1 boss, leave game and make the next 1. 4) What's wrong with rmah? Personally i stopped using paypal long ago for obvious reasons, but i can still use it as a better ingame currency than gold and perhaps buy some blizz games with it (hopefully hots). There are a few things you clearly don't understand here. And in diablo2 they were resolved, maybe the developers got lucky or maybe they planned it from the start but here's the deal: 1) Let me just say right away, there is no pvp in d3 so your point is already invalid but for the sake of it. Previous instalments had pvp but it was never the focus of the game. You could declare hostility versus a players above lvl 9, so it was never balanced. And blizzard said, they don't want to balance pvp so, what's the point here exactly? On top of that, the main reason why lvl 60 is horrible is because once you're at max level, you have nothing else to do. You can only try and beat the game on hardest difficulty. Okay. You can farm for gear... but why would you? In diablo 2, if you played without rushing, there is no way you could have reached 99 by the end of Hell, specifically in vanilla d2. So in the end you still had some levels ahead of you that you would just get by farming gear. Those levels gave you more stat points and more skill points and you had some higher level gear that you couldn't equip yet until you leveled up. In d3, there is none of that. You just have inferno to beat but there is really nothing to motivate you to do it, combine that with god awful item design and overall loot drop system and you really start having second thoughts. You mention, why would anyone level all the way to 99? Well, you don't have to go all the way up there but it's nice to have something else to look for after you've beaten the game, don't you think? 2) So now, instead of potion spam we have people either chain-ressing each other or just kiting elites to the checkpoint where you can res and get back in the fight immediatly. There is really nothing wrong with potion spam, because it replaces skills that give u regen or healing skills. And now you have more options: Either go with no-regen items and just chug the potions or get some regen and use that as your crutch or just put some defensive healing/lifegaining skills on your bar. Besides, the potions in d3 don't even heal 50% of your hp, in some cases that don't even heal 25%. 3) Bosses drop nothing useful if you don't have valor stacks. So now you HAVE to go out there and kill 5 elite packs before you get to do your boss. It feels like a chore not like a game. If bosses dropped good loot but then elite packs would make that loot even better, yeah I can see how people would go out of their way to hunt down mobs. And besides, what's wrong with killing the same boss over and over? Gaming is very repetitive, in starcraft you have your openings and builds that you refine and you do them over and over again... Why can't I find a way to kill diablo fast and just do that? They have these random events in the world, well how about spawning some rare bosses during those events that drop cool loot. That would encourage players to go out there and do them. 4) There is nothing wrong with rmah, I agree on this one. In d2 you could go online and buy items, no problem. rmah is just an easier ans safer way of doing so. The only problem with rmah in d3, and it's not so much the AH itself but it's that bland, uninspired, boring itemisation in the game. No item feels unique. And partially the reason for that is the whole stats-on-items system that they have gone with. That's for another discussion though Seems like you don't understand. 1) PvP is scheduled to come out in a later patch, and they'll balance it then. PvE is their first priority. Inferno was designed to be an optional difficulty level, for players who completed the game on hell and reached level 60 and "want something more". If you think the item design of D3 is god-awful, think about the design of D2. Not much better, in fact much more terrible. 2) Have fun chain-ressing with the increased repair costs. It was an unintended exploit, and thus it got nerfed. Potion spam is just plain retarded. Now, you actually have to play cautiously and carefully consider potion usage instead of facetanking everything. Although I will agree that a higher level potion should exist, and maybe the cooldown should be reduced to 15-20s. 3) Blizzard specifically didn't want people to do endless boss runs. That's why in patch 1.03, it's equally profitable to kill a boss or an elite, although some bosses are easier to kill because their mechanics are predictable and they don't have crazy affixes. 4) AH and RMAH is good in the sense that item trading is incorporated within the game, and you don't have to visit shady websites. I don't see why you're complaining about "no item feels unique" when D2 was a total fail in that regard. Thank you for some support MyBattleship. He clearly doesn't get it, that's fine. All i want to say that this is hack and slash game, not hack run run run run slash game. I feel like playing wow despite i have never tried it.Inferno being a bonus for people that finished the game on HELL - you have to be kidding me, right? Until inferno the game is a tutorial to try out what skill choices you have and the real game starts on inferno. Unfortunately it also ends right where it started, because you have already reached max. level. Stop making up bullshit about WoW, then. I have a subscription to it from day 1 of release and current D3 doesn't play like WoW at all. In fact, it's not even remotely close. You guys sound like a bunch of teenagers just hating on the cool thing to hate without really knowing anything about it. I have played WoW for a long time and while I can confirm that WoW and d3 play differently there are some obvious similarities ranging from minor details to the philosophy behind certain decisions. A couple examples of minor details: - You can't just save & exit, unless you're in town. You have to wait for about 10 seconds before your game ends. In d2 you could save and exit anywhere in the world. Is this a big issue? Probably not, but it's what world of warcraft uses as a model. - You can't really put another skill on your skillbar midcombat or out there in the wilderness. In WoW you have to talk to your trainer to respec your character. You can only find trainers in town. In d3 you dont have to talk anyone but if you want your skills instantly available to u, you have to go to town. In d2 you could just hotkey a skill anywhere anytime. Obviously in d2 you couldn't completely change your skills (until very recently) but if you had all the skills available to you, you could hotkey them or swap them out anytime. - potions usage is exactly the same as in world of warcraft. Potions don't heal for a lot and they have a cooldown. Nothing like it was in d2. Again, is this a big issue? Maybe not, but did we really have to change it? I don't know. As far as some of the design decisions go: - in WoW, you don't really have a boss that you can just go and farm over and over again (yes it's an MMO with a reset timer I know). What I'm getting at here is, in Wow, unless you had a instance where there is just one boss and nothing else, you would have to go and clear trash up to the boss, possibly kill some minor bosses before getting to that last boss you want to kill for some good loot. In d3 you HAVE to go out and get valor stacks before killing a boss because otherwise he doesn't drop anything useful. Obviously it's not identical, but there are threads running through both of these designs, the goal here is to give people that 30min-1hour time (d3) and 1hour-3hours (wow) time frame to work within. A siegebreaker run on my mage takes about 20 to 30 minutes (solo). And my azmodan runs took me about 30 to 40 minutes (in group of 3 or 4). On inferno obviously. - level cap. I'm not referring to level 60 cap directly, I'm just saying that the real endgame (best loot, hardest encounters) start at max level cap. But why? Why can't we level in inferno? There is nothing to look forward to, because we have already killed all the bosses 3 times by this point. We have all the skills. You can say the gear is what drives you and also the desire to complete the game. However, the gear problem is there. lvl 60 gear has item levels and they reflect it's quality. So if you have a lvl 60 500dps bow it's useless because there is a lvl 60 1000 dps bow. If that 1000dps bow required your character to be level 65, that's a different story. - item progression: Like I mentioned in my previous point. item level reflects the quality of the item so unless an item has some specific properties, unique properties, you're just looking to upgrade the item level. Bracers with 50 int and lvl requirment 60 will get replaced by bracers that give you 100 int and require that same lvl 60. But what if the bracers with 50 int had some cool additional stat to go with them? D3 has a few, but only very few items like this. Lacuni prawlers (bracers) gave you attack speed and movement speed, regular rare bracers don'tspawn with these properties so you have a choice there. But there needs to be more of these items, especially on the weapons front. these are just a few points. There are obviously more but I think the ones I mentioned are pretty obvious. And I want to emphasize that I dont hate d3, I have close to 250 hours played on 3 different characters, 2 of which I have cleared inferno with. I've stopped playing and the main reason for that is there is nothing to do in inferno.
Not to mention that the combat mechanics, target aquisition, monster AI, world persistence, character controls and numerous other things are completely different.
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what is really your point of posting this dated article over and over again? inferno has changed quite a bit from Jay Wilson's original projection. I mean, it's already seen major nerfs in difficulty and farmability (made up word, what's up!)
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On June 22 2012 03:02 crms wrote:what is really your point of posting this dated article over and over again? inferno has changed quite a bit from Jay Wilson's original projection. I mean, it's already seen major nerfs in difficulty and farmability (made up word, what's up!)
Because they're arguing about why you don't gain levels in Inferno. Some people would rather think up grand elaborate conspiracy theories instead of simple fact checking. I refuted a point, and showed evidence to back up my claims.
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On June 22 2012 02:54 willoc wrote:Show nested quote +On June 22 2012 02:46 myBattleship wrote:On June 22 2012 01:48 andrewlt wrote:On June 22 2012 01:00 Ricjames wrote:On June 22 2012 00:43 Heh_ wrote:On June 22 2012 00:32 myBattleship wrote:On June 21 2012 23:48 Technique wrote:On June 21 2012 23:42 Ricjames wrote:
BTW all they needed to do are the following:
1) redefine difficulty levels and make max. char level 99
2) remove freakin cooldown from potions and make potions expensive
3) make bosses drop better loot and make them twice as hard
4) optional but not possible - remove RMAH
Then we would have Diablo game instead of some crappy wow hybrid.
1) Lvl 60 is much better, no unfair level advantage in pvp (well maybe not ''unfair'', but who really takes the time to lvl to 99 or even close to that?). 2) Much better with cool down, so you can't just smash the lol full hp button everytime you got yourself in a hard spot. 3) They obviously don't want people to kill 1 boss, leave game and make the next 1. 4) What's wrong with rmah? Personally i stopped using paypal long ago for obvious reasons, but i can still use it as a better ingame currency than gold and perhaps buy some blizz games with it (hopefully hots). There are a few things you clearly don't understand here. And in diablo2 they were resolved, maybe the developers got lucky or maybe they planned it from the start but here's the deal: 1) Let me just say right away, there is no pvp in d3 so your point is already invalid but for the sake of it. Previous instalments had pvp but it was never the focus of the game. You could declare hostility versus a players above lvl 9, so it was never balanced. And blizzard said, they don't want to balance pvp so, what's the point here exactly? On top of that, the main reason why lvl 60 is horrible is because once you're at max level, you have nothing else to do. You can only try and beat the game on hardest difficulty. Okay. You can farm for gear... but why would you? In diablo 2, if you played without rushing, there is no way you could have reached 99 by the end of Hell, specifically in vanilla d2. So in the end you still had some levels ahead of you that you would just get by farming gear. Those levels gave you more stat points and more skill points and you had some higher level gear that you couldn't equip yet until you leveled up. In d3, there is none of that. You just have inferno to beat but there is really nothing to motivate you to do it, combine that with god awful item design and overall loot drop system and you really start having second thoughts. You mention, why would anyone level all the way to 99? Well, you don't have to go all the way up there but it's nice to have something else to look for after you've beaten the game, don't you think? 2) So now, instead of potion spam we have people either chain-ressing each other or just kiting elites to the checkpoint where you can res and get back in the fight immediatly. There is really nothing wrong with potion spam, because it replaces skills that give u regen or healing skills. And now you have more options: Either go with no-regen items and just chug the potions or get some regen and use that as your crutch or just put some defensive healing/lifegaining skills on your bar. Besides, the potions in d3 don't even heal 50% of your hp, in some cases that don't even heal 25%. 3) Bosses drop nothing useful if you don't have valor stacks. So now you HAVE to go out there and kill 5 elite packs before you get to do your boss. It feels like a chore not like a game. If bosses dropped good loot but then elite packs would make that loot even better, yeah I can see how people would go out of their way to hunt down mobs. And besides, what's wrong with killing the same boss over and over? Gaming is very repetitive, in starcraft you have your openings and builds that you refine and you do them over and over again... Why can't I find a way to kill diablo fast and just do that? They have these random events in the world, well how about spawning some rare bosses during those events that drop cool loot. That would encourage players to go out there and do them. 4) There is nothing wrong with rmah, I agree on this one. In d2 you could go online and buy items, no problem. rmah is just an easier ans safer way of doing so. The only problem with rmah in d3, and it's not so much the AH itself but it's that bland, uninspired, boring itemisation in the game. No item feels unique. And partially the reason for that is the whole stats-on-items system that they have gone with. That's for another discussion though Seems like you don't understand. 1) PvP is scheduled to come out in a later patch, and they'll balance it then. PvE is their first priority. Inferno was designed to be an optional difficulty level, for players who completed the game on hell and reached level 60 and "want something more". If you think the item design of D3 is god-awful, think about the design of D2. Not much better, in fact much more terrible. 2) Have fun chain-ressing with the increased repair costs. It was an unintended exploit, and thus it got nerfed. Potion spam is just plain retarded. Now, you actually have to play cautiously and carefully consider potion usage instead of facetanking everything. Although I will agree that a higher level potion should exist, and maybe the cooldown should be reduced to 15-20s. 3) Blizzard specifically didn't want people to do endless boss runs. That's why in patch 1.03, it's equally profitable to kill a boss or an elite, although some bosses are easier to kill because their mechanics are predictable and they don't have crazy affixes. 4) AH and RMAH is good in the sense that item trading is incorporated within the game, and you don't have to visit shady websites. I don't see why you're complaining about "no item feels unique" when D2 was a total fail in that regard. Thank you for some support MyBattleship. He clearly doesn't get it, that's fine. All i want to say that this is hack and slash game, not hack run run run run slash game. I feel like playing wow despite i have never tried it.Inferno being a bonus for people that finished the game on HELL - you have to be kidding me, right? Until inferno the game is a tutorial to try out what skill choices you have and the real game starts on inferno. Unfortunately it also ends right where it started, because you have already reached max. level. Stop making up bullshit about WoW, then. I have a subscription to it from day 1 of release and current D3 doesn't play like WoW at all. In fact, it's not even remotely close. You guys sound like a bunch of teenagers just hating on the cool thing to hate without really knowing anything about it. On June 22 2012 01:48 andrewlt wrote:On June 22 2012 01:00 Ricjames wrote:On June 22 2012 00:43 Heh_ wrote:On June 22 2012 00:32 myBattleship wrote:On June 21 2012 23:48 Technique wrote:On June 21 2012 23:42 Ricjames wrote:
BTW all they needed to do are the following:
1) redefine difficulty levels and make max. char level 99
2) remove freakin cooldown from potions and make potions expensive
3) make bosses drop better loot and make them twice as hard
4) optional but not possible - remove RMAH
Then we would have Diablo game instead of some crappy wow hybrid.
1) Lvl 60 is much better, no unfair level advantage in pvp (well maybe not ''unfair'', but who really takes the time to lvl to 99 or even close to that?). 2) Much better with cool down, so you can't just smash the lol full hp button everytime you got yourself in a hard spot. 3) They obviously don't want people to kill 1 boss, leave game and make the next 1. 4) What's wrong with rmah? Personally i stopped using paypal long ago for obvious reasons, but i can still use it as a better ingame currency than gold and perhaps buy some blizz games with it (hopefully hots). There are a few things you clearly don't understand here. And in diablo2 they were resolved, maybe the developers got lucky or maybe they planned it from the start but here's the deal: 1) Let me just say right away, there is no pvp in d3 so your point is already invalid but for the sake of it. Previous instalments had pvp but it was never the focus of the game. You could declare hostility versus a players above lvl 9, so it was never balanced. And blizzard said, they don't want to balance pvp so, what's the point here exactly? On top of that, the main reason why lvl 60 is horrible is because once you're at max level, you have nothing else to do. You can only try and beat the game on hardest difficulty. Okay. You can farm for gear... but why would you? In diablo 2, if you played without rushing, there is no way you could have reached 99 by the end of Hell, specifically in vanilla d2. So in the end you still had some levels ahead of you that you would just get by farming gear. Those levels gave you more stat points and more skill points and you had some higher level gear that you couldn't equip yet until you leveled up. In d3, there is none of that. You just have inferno to beat but there is really nothing to motivate you to do it, combine that with god awful item design and overall loot drop system and you really start having second thoughts. You mention, why would anyone level all the way to 99? Well, you don't have to go all the way up there but it's nice to have something else to look for after you've beaten the game, don't you think? 2) So now, instead of potion spam we have people either chain-ressing each other or just kiting elites to the checkpoint where you can res and get back in the fight immediatly. There is really nothing wrong with potion spam, because it replaces skills that give u regen or healing skills. And now you have more options: Either go with no-regen items and just chug the potions or get some regen and use that as your crutch or just put some defensive healing/lifegaining skills on your bar. Besides, the potions in d3 don't even heal 50% of your hp, in some cases that don't even heal 25%. 3) Bosses drop nothing useful if you don't have valor stacks. So now you HAVE to go out there and kill 5 elite packs before you get to do your boss. It feels like a chore not like a game. If bosses dropped good loot but then elite packs would make that loot even better, yeah I can see how people would go out of their way to hunt down mobs. And besides, what's wrong with killing the same boss over and over? Gaming is very repetitive, in starcraft you have your openings and builds that you refine and you do them over and over again... Why can't I find a way to kill diablo fast and just do that? They have these random events in the world, well how about spawning some rare bosses during those events that drop cool loot. That would encourage players to go out there and do them. 4) There is nothing wrong with rmah, I agree on this one. In d2 you could go online and buy items, no problem. rmah is just an easier ans safer way of doing so. The only problem with rmah in d3, and it's not so much the AH itself but it's that bland, uninspired, boring itemisation in the game. No item feels unique. And partially the reason for that is the whole stats-on-items system that they have gone with. That's for another discussion though Seems like you don't understand. 1) PvP is scheduled to come out in a later patch, and they'll balance it then. PvE is their first priority. Inferno was designed to be an optional difficulty level, for players who completed the game on hell and reached level 60 and "want something more". If you think the item design of D3 is god-awful, think about the design of D2. Not much better, in fact much more terrible. 2) Have fun chain-ressing with the increased repair costs. It was an unintended exploit, and thus it got nerfed. Potion spam is just plain retarded. Now, you actually have to play cautiously and carefully consider potion usage instead of facetanking everything. Although I will agree that a higher level potion should exist, and maybe the cooldown should be reduced to 15-20s. 3) Blizzard specifically didn't want people to do endless boss runs. That's why in patch 1.03, it's equally profitable to kill a boss or an elite, although some bosses are easier to kill because their mechanics are predictable and they don't have crazy affixes. 4) AH and RMAH is good in the sense that item trading is incorporated within the game, and you don't have to visit shady websites. I don't see why you're complaining about "no item feels unique" when D2 was a total fail in that regard. Thank you for some support MyBattleship. He clearly doesn't get it, that's fine. All i want to say that this is hack and slash game, not hack run run run run slash game. I feel like playing wow despite i have never tried it.Inferno being a bonus for people that finished the game on HELL - you have to be kidding me, right? Until inferno the game is a tutorial to try out what skill choices you have and the real game starts on inferno. Unfortunately it also ends right where it started, because you have already reached max. level. Stop making up bullshit about WoW, then. I have a subscription to it from day 1 of release and current D3 doesn't play like WoW at all. In fact, it's not even remotely close. You guys sound like a bunch of teenagers just hating on the cool thing to hate without really knowing anything about it. I have played WoW for a long time and while I can confirm that WoW and d3 play differently there are some obvious similarities ranging from minor details to the philosophy behind certain decisions. A couple examples of minor details: - You can't just save & exit, unless you're in town. You have to wait for about 10 seconds before your game ends. In d2 you could save and exit anywhere in the world. Is this a big issue? Probably not, but it's what world of warcraft uses as a model. - You can't really put another skill on your skillbar midcombat or out there in the wilderness. In WoW you have to talk to your trainer to respec your character. You can only find trainers in town. In d3 you dont have to talk anyone but if you want your skills instantly available to u, you have to go to town. In d2 you could just hotkey a skill anywhere anytime. Obviously in d2 you couldn't completely change your skills (until very recently) but if you had all the skills available to you, you could hotkey them or swap them out anytime. - potions usage is exactly the same as in world of warcraft. Potions don't heal for a lot and they have a cooldown. Nothing like it was in d2. Again, is this a big issue? Maybe not, but did we really have to change it? I don't know. As far as some of the design decisions go: - in WoW, you don't really have a boss that you can just go and farm over and over again (yes it's an MMO with a reset timer I know). What I'm getting at here is, in Wow, unless you had a instance where there is just one boss and nothing else, you would have to go and clear trash up to the boss, possibly kill some minor bosses before getting to that last boss you want to kill for some good loot. In d3 you HAVE to go out and get valor stacks before killing a boss because otherwise he doesn't drop anything useful. Obviously it's not identical, but there are threads running through both of these designs, the goal here is to give people that 30min-1hour time (d3) and 1hour-3hours (wow) time frame to work within. A siegebreaker run on my mage takes about 20 to 30 minutes (solo). And my azmodan runs took me about 30 to 40 minutes (in group of 3 or 4). On inferno obviously. - level cap. I'm not referring to level 60 cap directly, I'm just saying that the real endgame (best loot, hardest encounters) start at max level cap. But why? Why can't we level in inferno? There is nothing to look forward to, because we have already killed all the bosses 3 times by this point. We have all the skills. You can say the gear is what drives you and also the desire to complete the game. However, the gear problem is there. lvl 60 gear has item levels and they reflect it's quality. So if you have a lvl 60 500dps bow it's useless because there is a lvl 60 1000 dps bow. If that 1000dps bow required your character to be level 65, that's a different story. - item progression: Like I mentioned in my previous point. item level reflects the quality of the item so unless an item has some specific properties, unique properties, you're just looking to upgrade the item level. Bracers with 50 int and lvl requirment 60 will get replaced by bracers that give you 100 int and require that same lvl 60. But what if the bracers with 50 int had some cool additional stat to go with them? D3 has a few, but only very few items like this. Lacuni prawlers (bracers) gave you attack speed and movement speed, regular rare bracers don'tspawn with these properties so you have a choice there. But there needs to be more of these items, especially on the weapons front. these are just a few points. There are obviously more but I think the ones I mentioned are pretty obvious. And I want to emphasize that I dont hate d3, I have close to 250 hours played on 3 different characters, 2 of which I have cleared inferno with. I've stopped playing and the main reason for that is there is nothing to do in inferno. Not to mention that the combat mechanics, target aquisition, monster AI, world persistence, character controls and numerous other things are completely different.
Hey that's pretty cool. things you list, a lot of them were in diablo2 and they remained the same. great! But why did they borrow from WoW so many things that really had no place in a diablo game? Can you please explain to me? I don't think so.
By the way, world persistence... Are you trying to tell me that a MMO is different from a single player game with multiplayer component? lol
Come on now m8, please. You had to really scrape the bottom of the barrel to come up with these things.
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I didnt drop a single item lv 63, from chap 6 act 1 to chap 6 act 2, droped a couple of 62 and a lot of 61, also 1 set that was previously worth like 3mi (tal rasha armor) but since ias got overnerfed it isnt worth anything, the repair cost is too damn high now, I get about even farming ... Im not even enjoying the game anymore ....
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On June 22 2012 03:07 Heh_ wrote:Show nested quote +On June 22 2012 03:02 crms wrote:what is really your point of posting this dated article over and over again? inferno has changed quite a bit from Jay Wilson's original projection. I mean, it's already seen major nerfs in difficulty and farmability (made up word, what's up!) Because they're arguing about why you don't gain levels in Inferno. Some people would rather think up grand elaborate conspiracy theories instead of simple fact checking. I refuted a point, and showed evidence to back up my claims.
Nobody is arguing about the absence of leveling in inferno. We are arguing about the lack of motivation/things to look forward to in inferno. It's rather pointless but none the less offers the best loot and the hardest bosses. The only 2 reasons to finish inferno. Diablo2 gave you more reasons, simple as that.
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On June 22 2012 03:22 myBattleship wrote:Show nested quote +On June 22 2012 03:07 Heh_ wrote:On June 22 2012 03:02 crms wrote:what is really your point of posting this dated article over and over again? inferno has changed quite a bit from Jay Wilson's original projection. I mean, it's already seen major nerfs in difficulty and farmability (made up word, what's up!) Because they're arguing about why you don't gain levels in Inferno. Some people would rather think up grand elaborate conspiracy theories instead of simple fact checking. I refuted a point, and showed evidence to back up my claims. Nobody is arguing about the absence of leveling in inferno. We are arguing about the lack of motivation/things to look forward to in inferno. It's rather pointless but none the less offers the best loot and the hardest bosses. The only 2 reasons to finish inferno. Diablo2 gave you more reasons, simple as that.
From your post, the three motivating factors are leveling, loot and bosses, of which only leveling is different from engame D2 and D3. Leveling in D2 is painfully slow at the highest levels, compounded with the fact that you lose exp upon death. How many people reached lvl99 without botting or utilizing the shadow economy? Not me, I gave up at lvl92 because it was a waste of time, better spent playing other classes.
If you want to talk about motivation, Hell D2 was incredibly demotivating. It's not fun seeing elites (sometimes normal mobs) with immunities to every kind of damage that you can dish out.
And people HAVE been arguing about leveling.
On June 21 2012 23:42 Ricjames wrote:
BTW all they needed to do are the following:
1) redefine difficulty levels and make max. char level 99
2) remove freakin cooldown from potions and make potions expensive
3) make bosses drop better loot and make them twice as hard
4) optional but not possible - remove RMAH
Then we would have Diablo game instead of some crappy wow hybrid.
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I think a lot of the arguments are quite clearly subjective, do you prefer X or Y? Leveling, not leveling, potions, no potions, these issues in my opinion are less important than a well organized end game farm system. Considering the entirety of the franchise and the reason it's been successful for a decade is looting, trading, selling.
I think the biggest problem (which hopefully everyone agrees with) is that itemization is really awful. The completely, 100% random rolls on loot can be doable, but completely random rolls on loot AND a total nerf to the overall drop rate of high level items is like a double whammy. It's not like runs pre-1.0.3 yielded tens or hundreds of amazing items after each day of playing. You could run Azmodan for 6 hours pre-nerf and still get 1, 2 maybe 0 viable ilvl63 items. That's fine, that's diablo. However, at least runs were efficient with time.
Being piegonholed into 1 viable farming method, searching elites, is supposed to 'enhance' the replayability, look at all the exploring and variability you have! It's a farce. It only seems like the nicer option right now because it's new. All of the acts are going to become monotonous, all of the champions are going to become easy, it's inevitable. For a lot of people, the ones that were affected the hardest by this patch, it had already become that way. Removing the efficiency of farming is what will kill this games longevity. There should be multiple ways to farm items in the endgame that are all fairly synonomous. Of course there will be that 1 optimal strategy but that doesn't mean everyone will do it. Chest and Goblin farming was gold/per time spent, more advantageous than Cydea-Azmodan but I didn't enjoy it, so I didn't do it. We don't get any options now, we have to elite search, we have to spend more timing doing runs, and we are now post-patch, less rewarded for our efforts. Time up, drops down, nerfed classes, nerfed hero power (IAS) = bad time in a farm based ACTION RPG.
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EPT
