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United States47024 Posts
On May 21 2012 09:31 Stratos_speAr wrote:Show nested quote +On May 21 2012 01:33 The Irate Turk wrote:
They need to remove boss fight rezzing, and really ramp up the boss difficulty.
You should need gear for bosses not for random mobs leading to bosses.
It's a shame because apart from this the game is really good.
The boss mechanic scaling from Hell --> Inferno is pretty much increased health pool and more damage. The Butcher has a 3 minute enrage, but even that is easy to overcome.
Any direct hit from a boss should be instant death. Right now you can tank hits from the Skeleton King, and that is without having the best gear. The flames from the Butcher encounter should be instant death. A hook from the butcher should be instant death.
Magda in Act 2 is so easy it is an insult. The mobs leading to her are so difficult in comparison. They seem to have designed the game backwards. I'm getting tired of seeing these posts. Diablo 2 was easier than D3 in every way, so unless you're ready to completely denounce D2 and call it a crappy game, then this needs to stop. Yes, the design philosophy with having trash being harder than bosses is bad design, but bosses being one hit insta-kills would just be stupid. It's damn near impossible to avoid a hit from a boss. If you did that, you'd be going way too extreme on the difficulty. Should bosses be harder than trash? Yes, but not in that way. That just isn't fun. Oh, and they should also scale down some elite mobs. Some affix combinations are just impossible to kill.
I think that there's a fair argument that Act-end bosses, being Act-end bosses, should have more interesting encounter design. Not necessarily hit harder, but the boss fights should be more complex. Perhaps not one-hit insta-kill, but hard in the sense that there are abilities that he has that you have to play around and that will kill you if you play incorrectly (force you to pop defensive CDs at certain times, dodge certain abilities, etc.).
As it stands, the only real boss mechanic is "don't stand in the fire".
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and some people still stand in the fire and then come post that the game was too hard....
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I would have liked the Act bosses in inferno to be changed up a bit with additional abilities compared to other difficulties, otherwise up to Act 4 hell so far its decent difficulty. Certainly getting more playtime from D3 than other games that arent competetive multiplayer (i.e. SC, TF2, Tribes, CS, DOTA)
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Along with act bosses getting new abilities give some love to normal mobs as you go to so it isn't so stale replaying each difficulty setting
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I feel like all the "easiness" complaints arise from the fact that people expect Diablo to be an RPG. Coming most likely from players who transitioned from WoW and/or just playing a Diablo game for the first time. Diablo is more so an action game than an RPG. Personally I am not a fan of RPGs but love Diablo for what it is. Having played a lot of D1 and being absolutely obsessed with D2, D3 is basically just what I wanted.
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No the easiness complaints come from there being so little action in this aRPG, everything is preset and stales very quickly and the only scaling is stats. Not sure where you got this idea that all wow players are some grand master super specialist players that rape other games.
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On May 21 2012 08:09 TheYango wrote:Show nested quote +On May 21 2012 08:02 Deadlyhazard wrote:On May 21 2012 07:52 XXXSmOke wrote:On May 21 2012 07:31 NotSorry wrote:
D3 is made for casuals, that includes inferno, nothing is "hard" or "mechanically challenging" there is just "has more hp, hits harder" which doesn't mean much since most things have been 1 shotting people since late NM. It's the same boring mobs and the same boring boss fights, just you get to attack at them for longer. D3 really should have taken a page from Path of Exile and given monsters abilities rather than just stat scaling to as an attempt to increase difficulty. Uhm, elite mobs do have abilities? Vortex, Waller, illusion, molten, mortar??? Those are all found in nightmare. There are no new abilities found in inferno mode or even hell (IIRC). And the end of act bosses + quest bosses never gain any new abilities. That's why they're so easy in comparison to mobs. Invulnerable Minions doesn't appear as an elite mod till Hell.
invulnerable minions are the stupidest thing in the game, some classes just cant deal with them at all.
on the subject of too hard vs too easy, i dont understand why they kept he D2 style of death in combat vs the wow model. in wow you can have easy and harder bosses but its not unreasonable for a good player to not expect to die on an elite pack.
in diablo it feels like to compensate for it being possible to chain run back and/or rez they had to allow for super stupid ability combinations. its a band aid fix and its really not a fun idea. it makes hardcore less about skillfull execution and more about running in to an elite and running out again, logging out and back in until you get a beatable combination, and normal play about ramming your face into the mob knowing you are going to die and then coming back to finish it off, because its just easier and faster than kiting.
make mobs reset when you die, ban out some combination of abilities (and add more different ones in general) and that would solve this debate. at the moment its too hard in the sense that some stuff just rapes you no matter what, but too easy in the sense that you can just die and run back with no punishment. i dont feel like either side of the debate is happy with this situation.
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On May 21 2012 09:31 Stratos_speAr wrote:
3) As the guy that responded to you said, the storytelling method was ripped straight from WoW, with the in-game cutscenes and all that jazz. Oh, and of course the story is basically rehashed devices used from SC2 and WoW.
Because ingame cutscenes were never used in ANY game before WoW. Fucking facepalm.
Oh and the story is rehashed traditional fantasy story that almost every RPG has ever. You're a lone hero fighting escalating powers of baddies who want to kill the world, armies of demons happen somewhere and there's a twist near the end, then you have to kill the BIGGEST boss!
Basically what you're saying is WoW is a complete story rip off of Baldur's Gate 2. Which totally rehashed the story from Baldur's Gate 1. And I can't believe they stole the story from Monkey Island!
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Im only in hell difficulty and I think the game is difficult, some of those rare mob packs kick ass. It seems like a few hardcore people beat inferno in a short amount of time using cheap techniques mind you and all of a sudden everybody feels that the game is too easy. It seems the very idea that the game is beatable is changing people's perception of the game. The game is great and if your gonna complain about the difficulty of a game after you amassed such irregular play hours; then you really need to get a life. Hey I get it, I played the hell out of the game too but Im not going to waste time whining about such a small detail after playing the game longer than most will play in a month. News flash, you've beat inferno, now go get some fresh air and admit you had fun. You didnt even beat it on hardcore and you arnt even clearing the tough blue packs but you set your own arbitrary goals and complain that blizzard made those goals too easy. Cool story bro. As for the other people who are likely not even in inferno, the game is plenty hard if you are a regular gamer. Just because other people beat it, doesnt mean you can too.
However the topic did get off track because OP was complaining about boss difficulty, not the game in general.
The idea to make mobs stronger than bosses was a decision we knew about long before diablo 3 release. They would drop the best gear so it made sense to make them be the strongest. I for one was excited about this idea because it meant people werent grinding the same boss over and over again at max level. All of a sudden ideal cookie cutter builds would appear to kill 1 boss which would be poor design. Though I do have to say the bosses do lose major appeal when practically everything else is more challenging than them. In theory I thought it was a great idea, in practice im starting to have mixed feelings about it.
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there are plain stupid combinations on elite mobs that can randomly kill you (vortex+arcane for example). and once hell picks up i have encounter unbeatable elite groups even with way better gear then the random guys i meet in public games. getting 1shotted or killed in 0.5 secs is not what i call easy.
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some of the affixes and skill/spell in those rare and elites should never have been put in... frozen. immobilize..and skills that makes u as a player helpless (nothing u can do but take the hits or the death) therefore HC is never going to work in D3 except bypassing the rare/elite packs because... u might die without being able to do anything... they can make the monsters harder in different ways but not give them abilities that make u the player incappable of reacting.
Same as in SC2 such as the force fields.. it limits u as a player to be able to do anything... u are trapped and u just have to take the loss because u cant do shit... they took the same mentality and put it in D3 where some of those skills u just cant do shit about it.
HUGE mistake by blizzard, D3 is really turning out to be very disappointing on top of soooooooooo many flaws and the connection system/servers....
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If you want the real experience you should try moving to Australia, then you can play at 400+ ping like everyone else!
Trust me, it will be so hard you'll want a refund.
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I don't have ping issues(280-350ms) but I already have a ticket in for a refund due to the game still being in early beta stages and not ready for a full release.
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On May 21 2012 09:35 TheYango wrote:Show nested quote +On May 21 2012 09:31 Stratos_speAr wrote:On May 21 2012 01:33 The Irate Turk wrote:
They need to remove boss fight rezzing, and really ramp up the boss difficulty.
You should need gear for bosses not for random mobs leading to bosses.
It's a shame because apart from this the game is really good.
The boss mechanic scaling from Hell --> Inferno is pretty much increased health pool and more damage. The Butcher has a 3 minute enrage, but even that is easy to overcome.
Any direct hit from a boss should be instant death. Right now you can tank hits from the Skeleton King, and that is without having the best gear. The flames from the Butcher encounter should be instant death. A hook from the butcher should be instant death.
Magda in Act 2 is so easy it is an insult. The mobs leading to her are so difficult in comparison. They seem to have designed the game backwards. I'm getting tired of seeing these posts. Diablo 2 was easier than D3 in every way, so unless you're ready to completely denounce D2 and call it a crappy game, then this needs to stop. Yes, the design philosophy with having trash being harder than bosses is bad design, but bosses being one hit insta-kills would just be stupid. It's damn near impossible to avoid a hit from a boss. If you did that, you'd be going way too extreme on the difficulty. Should bosses be harder than trash? Yes, but not in that way. That just isn't fun. Oh, and they should also scale down some elite mobs. Some affix combinations are just impossible to kill. I think that there's a fair argument that Act-end bosses, being Act-end bosses, should have more interesting encounter design. Not necessarily hit harder, but the boss fights should be more complex. Perhaps not one-hit insta-kill, but hard in the sense that there are abilities that he has that you have to play around and that will kill you if you play incorrectly (force you to pop defensive CDs at certain times, dodge certain abilities, etc.). As it stands, the only real boss mechanic is "don't stand in the fire".
To be fair, that has kept most WoW players busy for years now.
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Elites are fucking hard(:D), bosses are too easy.
On May 21 2012 10:55 [Crimson]Bason wrote:
some of the affixes and skill/spell in those rare and elites should never have been put in... frozen. immobilize..and skills that makes u as a player helpless (nothing u can do but take the hits or the death) therefore HC is never going to work in D3 except bypassing the rare/elite packs because... u might die without being able to do anything... they can make the monsters harder in different ways but not give them abilities that make u the player incappable of reacting.
Same as in SC2 such as the force fields.. it limits u as a player to be able to do anything... u are trapped and u just have to take the loss because u cant do shit... they took the same mentality and put it in D3 where some of those skills u just cant do shit about it.
HUGE mistake by blizzard, D3 is really turning out to be very disappointing on top of soooooooooo many flaws and the connection system/servers....
Frozen = Easily dodgeable
Jailer = If you keep your distance they won't get to you in time
Waller = If you pay attention normally there is a way to get out of it, if there isnot this is can be tricky.
I think if you itemize survival you can take some hits without dying
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at this rate... most players will stop playing after a few weeks of play... no real incentive reallly because no runes to find... the legendaries are crap and the sets even worse...
D2 in contrast is still played today after 10+ years and still after ladder reset ... tons of people go back and play it...
D3... wont last 1 month by the looks of it
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On May 21 2012 11:36 Alpino wrote:Elites are fucking hard(:D), bosses are too easy. Show nested quote +On May 21 2012 10:55 [Crimson]Bason wrote:
some of the affixes and skill/spell in those rare and elites should never have been put in... frozen. immobilize..and skills that makes u as a player helpless (nothing u can do but take the hits or the death) therefore HC is never going to work in D3 except bypassing the rare/elite packs because... u might die without being able to do anything... they can make the monsters harder in different ways but not give them abilities that make u the player incappable of reacting.
Same as in SC2 such as the force fields.. it limits u as a player to be able to do anything... u are trapped and u just have to take the loss because u cant do shit... they took the same mentality and put it in D3 where some of those skills u just cant do shit about it.
HUGE mistake by blizzard, D3 is really turning out to be very disappointing on top of soooooooooo many flaws and the connection system/servers.... Frozen = Easily dodgeable Jailer = If you keep your distance they won't get to you in time Waller = If you pay attention normally there is a way to get out of it, if there isnot this is can be tricky. I think if you itemize survival you can take some hits without dying
yeah but when u combine a few of those affixes with others that can one hit KO you.. then its not right anymore because in HC you dont get a second chance... u have to be careful but things they can make u take the hits and not be able to do anything about it is the wrong design
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From what I can tell Inferno is the new hell, hell the new nightmare, and nightmare the new normal (when comparing to D2) Anyone concur?
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The biggest issue with replayablity is there is no godly items to chase after near perfect stat blues/rares aren't that hard to come by. People will put up with a flawed game as long as there is a still a carrot over their head, D3 forgot to add the carrot to the end of the string.
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On May 21 2012 12:02 NotSorry wrote:
The biggest issue with replayablity is there is no godly items to chase after near perfect stat blues/rares aren't that hard to come by. People will put up with a flawed game as long as there is a still a carrot over their head, D3 forgot to add the carrot to the end of the string.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't there the same sort of problem with D2 initially? Like one of the blue types of weapons did more damage then any of the uniques so those are what most chars went for.
If not enough godly legendaries is the problem, it seems like it would be easily fixable.
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EPT
