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On May 21 2012 01:33 The Irate Turk wrote:
They need to remove boss fight rezzing, and really ramp up the boss difficulty.
You should need gear for bosses not for random mobs leading to bosses.
It's a shame because apart from this the game is really good.
The boss mechanic scaling from Hell --> Inferno is pretty much increased health pool and more damage. The Butcher has a 3 minute enrage, but even that is easy to overcome.
Any direct hit from a boss should be instant death. Right now you can tank hits from the Skeleton King, and that is without having the best gear. The flames from the Butcher encounter should be instant death. A hook from the butcher should be instant death.
Magda in Act 2 is so easy it is an insult. The mobs leading to her are so difficult in comparison. They seem to have designed the game backwards.
So, basically, you reached top level in the game less than a week after it was released, and are playing the hardest difficulty (and have not yet finished it)... Also you are playing in a group (you said they need to remove ressurecting in boss fights), which is easier than solo.
Did it ever occur to your that you spend WAY more time playing videogame(s) than most other people on the planet? I feel like i gamed the hell out of D3 the past week, and I'm "only" level 57.
Maybe you're just an awesome player and making the game more difficult would make it too difficult for the rest of us? I'm actually serious, not trying to make fun of you, someone HAS to be the best, why could it not be you.
Either that, or this is just another brag post about you reaching Inferno in an early stage of the game, and that you are doing well there. We've seen plenty of them before, in other games, and will see plenty of them in the future. 
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Bosses are too easy, and dont drop the loot you expect them to. They feel very dull and are therefore a big letdown. you expect the most powerfull demons in the Diablo universe to be the biggest challenge but it turns out they are not.
That is exactly the reason why people find this game too easy. I dont know why blizz decided to do it like this but thats the way it is.
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On May 21 2012 01:33 The Irate Turk wrote:
You should need gear for bosses not for random mobs leading to bosses.
I disagree.
In my opinion, best items in random encounter are awsome. Random blue/yellow encounter are awesome, funny and sometime difficult. So it is cool to have a good item.
Best items on bosses would result in "neverendingfarming". It would be very boring.
What would be the point to :
- chose the boss encounter in the quest screen
- tp in front of the boss
- wipe or kill the boss
- do it again all day long, all week long etc.
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You know I am sure someplace, a blizzard guy is reading this thread(most likely not but I can dream) seeing all the complaints about how you need to farm inferno's previous act's to progress without cheesing it and laughing manically. He'll pull out his list of "Complaints about the game before it's released list" and casually cross out "Make people calling the game too easy break down and complain about difficulty."
I am abit of a sadist like that..
Needless to say Diablo 3 is not perfect, but it is most assuredly not an easy game. The Demon crabs of act 3 even in nightmare had a wicked champion pack of knockback, shield. Causing the already tanky critters to be near on frustratingly difficult for melee as I found out being air juggled to my death by the knockback and hunkering down with the shield effect. This is a pact on Nightmare.
The Hell mobs are not easy, the bosses are not too hard but they can be unforgiving if you make a mistake. If you make a mistake you often don't get a chance to correct it. If you feel the bosses should be one hitting you, that's not a good boss design as someone who spent several years being hit by bosses it's not good design if you are struck once and die. It's the equal of being 4 pool'd on a 2 player map.
As for AH being a work around, who said you had to buy stuff from it? Let's throw in a "Making Due" feat for defeating acts of the game without items from the AH.
Games pretty damn hard enough as is, don't want it nerfed either.
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On May 21 2012 20:40 Orzabal wrote:Show nested quote +On May 21 2012 01:33 The Irate Turk wrote:
You should need gear for bosses not for random mobs leading to bosses.
I disagree. In my opinion, best items in random encounter are awsome. Random blue/yellow encounter are awesome, funny and sometime difficult. So it is cool to have a good item. Best items on bosses would result in "neverendingfarming". It would be very boring. What would be the point to : - chose the boss encounter in the quest screen - tp in front of the boss - wipe or kill the boss - do it again all day long, all week long etc.
people loved doing this in d2
i did too
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I wouldnt say it is to easy, but its scewed in a weird way. Like people have said before the rares are often times way harder than a boss with the weird combinations of spells they can have.
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On May 21 2012 20:43 Parnage wrote:
You know I am sure someplace, a blizzard guy is reading this thread(most likely not but I can dream) seeing all the complaints about how you need to farm inferno's previous act's to progress without cheesing it and laughing manically. He'll pull out his list of "Complaints about the game before it's released list" and casually cross out "Make people calling the game too easy break down and complain about difficulty."
I am abit of a sadist like that..
Needless to say Diablo 3 is not perfect, but it is most assuredly not an easy game. The Demon crabs of act 3 even in nightmare had a wicked champion pack of knockback, shield. Causing the already tanky critters to be near on frustratingly difficult for melee as I found out being air juggled to my death by the knockback and hunkering down with the shield effect. This is a pact on Nightmare.
The Hell mobs are not easy, the bosses are not too hard but they can be unforgiving if you make a mistake. If you make a mistake you often don't get a chance to correct it. If you feel the bosses should be one hitting you, that's not a good boss design as someone who spent several years being hit by bosses it's not good design if you are struck once and die. It's the equal of being 4 pool'd on a 2 player map.
As for AH being a work around, who said you had to buy stuff from it? Let's throw in a "Making Due" feat for defeating acts of the game without items from the AH.
Games pretty damn hard enough as is, don't want it nerfed either.
Right that's it. How dare you suggest that people handicap themselves? Optional? Buying from the AH should be a requirement to progress to Inferno, after you beat Hell you should have to spend at least 1 billion gold before it allows you to continue. Oh hang on, wrong meeting.
Anyways, good point, well made Parnage.
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On May 21 2012 20:40 Orzabal wrote:Show nested quote +On May 21 2012 01:33 The Irate Turk wrote:
You should need gear for bosses not for random mobs leading to bosses.
I disagree. In my opinion, best items in random encounter are awsome. Random blue/yellow encounter are awesome, funny and sometime difficult. So it is cool to have a good item. Best items on bosses would result in "neverendingfarming". It would be very boring. What would be the point to : - chose the boss encounter in the quest screen - tp in front of the boss - wipe or kill the boss - do it again all day long, all week long etc.
The game is already never ending farming, just you farm generic trash mobs instead of a climactic boss fight.
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On May 21 2012 22:43 Dfgj wrote:Show nested quote +On May 21 2012 20:40 Orzabal wrote:On May 21 2012 01:33 The Irate Turk wrote:
You should need gear for bosses not for random mobs leading to bosses.
I disagree. In my opinion, best items in random encounter are awsome. Random blue/yellow encounter are awesome, funny and sometime difficult. So it is cool to have a good item. Best items on bosses would result in "neverendingfarming". It would be very boring. What would be the point to : - chose the boss encounter in the quest screen - tp in front of the boss - wipe or kill the boss - do it again all day long, all week long etc. The game is already never ending farming, just you farm generic trash mobs instead of a climactic boss fight.
The generic trashmobs at least change both position and power, while those "climactic boss fights" are 100% the same every single time.
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On May 21 2012 22:49 Tobberoth wrote:Show nested quote +On May 21 2012 22:43 Dfgj wrote:On May 21 2012 20:40 Orzabal wrote:On May 21 2012 01:33 The Irate Turk wrote:
You should need gear for bosses not for random mobs leading to bosses.
I disagree. In my opinion, best items in random encounter are awsome. Random blue/yellow encounter are awesome, funny and sometime difficult. So it is cool to have a good item. Best items on bosses would result in "neverendingfarming". It would be very boring. What would be the point to : - chose the boss encounter in the quest screen - tp in front of the boss - wipe or kill the boss - do it again all day long, all week long etc. The game is already never ending farming, just you farm generic trash mobs instead of a climactic boss fight. The generic trashmobs at least change both position and power, while those "climactic boss fights" are 100% the same every single time.
100% of actually having to fight, rather than lining up, holding down maxaoedpsattackkey and collecting loot from things a screen away.
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On May 21 2012 22:53 Dfgj wrote:Show nested quote +On May 21 2012 22:49 Tobberoth wrote:On May 21 2012 22:43 Dfgj wrote:On May 21 2012 20:40 Orzabal wrote:On May 21 2012 01:33 The Irate Turk wrote:
You should need gear for bosses not for random mobs leading to bosses.
I disagree. In my opinion, best items in random encounter are awsome. Random blue/yellow encounter are awesome, funny and sometime difficult. So it is cool to have a good item. Best items on bosses would result in "neverendingfarming". It would be very boring. What would be the point to : - chose the boss encounter in the quest screen - tp in front of the boss - wipe or kill the boss - do it again all day long, all week long etc. The game is already never ending farming, just you farm generic trash mobs instead of a climactic boss fight. The generic trashmobs at least change both position and power, while those "climactic boss fights" are 100% the same every single time. 100% of actually having to fight, rather than lining up, holding down maxaoedpsattackkey and collecting loot from things a screen away.
Yeah, no. If you can kill a rare mob on inferno with maxaoedpsattack from a screen away with a barbarian or monk, I would like to see it streamed.
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On May 21 2012 02:23 The Irate Turk wrote:
Maybe HC is the way to go, but I think that is a bit of a cop out. I don't really have enough time to play that conservatively and meticulously
Wut, you want it to be harder but don't want to have to play conservatively and meticulously? Imo hard games are those where you have to play meticulously and conservatively (at least always meticulously). So that's basically an contradiction..
I do though admit that the softcore system is stupid, I've myself played only hardcore (except the level 10 required for it, obviously) because of the ressing system. In d2 you at least lost exp when you died so you couldn't mass res, and this also meant that people choose stats and gear similarly in HC and softcore.
Now it's just stupid, I watch level 60 players in inferno act 2-3 with the same hp I have in level 51, as they don't care if they die at all. They oneshot everything but lose 50 of their hp from a normal mob hitting them (normal as in small normal, not big normal).
If people did that in d2 they'd never get to a high level as they'd constantly lose their exp and thus never progress, now progression in d3 softcore is simply to play, you can never go backwards.
In HC though, things are shit hard, imagine not being allowed to die even once when you meet a pack of mobs that are decently dangerous normally, but with frozen, jail arcane and desecration. I usually kite packs for entire maps (running where I've already been) slowly wearing them down, and sometimes I simply have to restart the game because I had to exit a dungeon having kited a hard pack to the entrance, and thus entering would be risking instantaneous death.
Edit: Also, because of the ressing system and no substantial loss upon death I actually think they wanted to make softcore easy/chill, a place where you can sit on skype with your buddies and tell jokes and slaughter mobs with nice graphics, or where you put on some nice music and farm some exp or some gold/gear. Then, for those who actually want a challenge, HC still exists so the game isn't pointless for them either, it's a good compromise.
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Blizzard definitely reduced the loot from boss fights for a reason. D2 was reduced to a series of boss (Ball or Mephisto) runs or cow level runs. Essentially, 99% of the content from the rest of the game was ignored. That's not exactly good game design. Now in D3, there's a reason to farm in every single area, although I agree that boss loot should be buffed slightly.
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On May 21 2012 20:40 Orzabal wrote:Show nested quote +On May 21 2012 01:33 The Irate Turk wrote:
You should need gear for bosses not for random mobs leading to bosses.
I disagree. In my opinion, best items in random encounter are awsome. Random blue/yellow encounter are awesome, funny and sometime difficult. So it is cool to have a good item. Best items on bosses would result in "neverendingfarming". It would be very boring. What would be the point to : - chose the boss encounter in the quest screen - tp in front of the boss - wipe or kill the boss - do it again all day long, all week long etc.
For the best farming in game you still do the exact same minus teleporting, the best items still drop off of the highest level set of mobs, aka the end of act 4, making Diablo runs the best for getting the best possible loot so they have changed nothing.
- chose the final boss quest screen (Prime Evil)
- run to Diablo, picking up a few of the easier rare packs along the way for the buff
- wipe or kill the boss, or quit and restart because you know Diablo isn't going to drop half as good as the monsters on the way to him.
- do it again all day long, all week long etc.
Essentially, 99% of the content from the rest of the game is still ignored
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It's funny, people keep shitting all over WoW players like they are the most terrible video gamers on the planet. A lot of the bosses are being destroyed by players who are raiders in WoW who are used to these type of mechanics. Their attacks are mostly predictable. The only slightly difficult one is Belial because of the small stage and the imprecision of mouse movement.
On the other hand, it is similar to D2. Multishot LED random mobs, especially on the Act 3 council members, were the most difficult enemies in the game.
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On May 21 2012 22:43 Dfgj wrote:Show nested quote +On May 21 2012 20:40 Orzabal wrote:On May 21 2012 01:33 The Irate Turk wrote:
You should need gear for bosses not for random mobs leading to bosses.
I disagree. In my opinion, best items in random encounter are awsome. Random blue/yellow encounter are awesome, funny and sometime difficult. So it is cool to have a good item. Best items on bosses would result in "neverendingfarming". It would be very boring. What would be the point to : - chose the boss encounter in the quest screen - tp in front of the boss - wipe or kill the boss - do it again all day long, all week long etc. The game is already never ending farming, just you farm generic trash mobs instead of a climactic boss fight.
There's nothing climactic about Mephisto, Pindleskin nor Baal. Even the Skeleton King in Act 1 normal is a more dynamic fight than hell Mephisto.
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On May 21 2012 23:29 NotSorry wrote:Show nested quote +On May 21 2012 20:40 Orzabal wrote:On May 21 2012 01:33 The Irate Turk wrote:
You should need gear for bosses not for random mobs leading to bosses.
I disagree. In my opinion, best items in random encounter are awsome. Random blue/yellow encounter are awesome, funny and sometime difficult. So it is cool to have a good item. Best items on bosses would result in "neverendingfarming". It would be very boring. What would be the point to : - chose the boss encounter in the quest screen - tp in front of the boss - wipe or kill the boss - do it again all day long, all week long etc. For the best farming in game you still do the exact same minus teleporting, the best items still drop off of the highest level set of mobs, aka the end of act 4, making Diablo runs the best for getting the best possible loot so they have changed nothing. - chose the final boss quest screen (Prime Evil) - run to Diablo, picking up a few of the easier rare packs along the way for the buff - wipe or kill the boss, or quit and restart because you know Diablo isn't going to drop half as good as the monsters on the way to him. - do it again all day long, all week long etc. Essentially, 99% of the content from the rest of the game is still ignored
I thought you lose the Nepahalem Valor buff if you leave game?
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On May 21 2012 20:44 Qeet wrote:Show nested quote +On May 21 2012 20:40 Orzabal wrote:On May 21 2012 01:33 The Irate Turk wrote:
You should need gear for bosses not for random mobs leading to bosses.
I disagree. In my opinion, best items in random encounter are awsome. Random blue/yellow encounter are awesome, funny and sometime difficult. So it is cool to have a good item. Best items on bosses would result in "neverendingfarming". It would be very boring. What would be the point to : - chose the boss encounter in the quest screen - tp in front of the boss - wipe or kill the boss - do it again all day long, all week long etc. people loved doing this in d2 i did too
You mean that people loved having bots that did that for them, right?
I don't know why people complain about difficulty. D2 was a rather easy game as well if you had some decent gear.
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On May 21 2012 20:35 Xacalite wrote:
Bosses are too easy, and dont drop the loot you expect them to. They feel very dull and are therefore a big letdown. you expect the most powerfull demons in the Diablo universe to be the biggest challenge but it turns out they are not.
That is exactly the reason why people find this game too easy. I dont know why blizz decided to do it like this but thats the way it is.
Its pretty simple. They want everyone to be able to progress through the game and complete it and from a game design point of view its not a bad one. The last difficulty should be different though and as suggested adding abilities to bosses to increase difficulty would have been good. Although removing ressing entirely would probably achieve this.
Hope they fix the MF gear swapping mid combat, its kinda lame.
There's a few games that have not main story things being the hardest things. In the case of D3 its some of the elite packs.
Anyways I'm being oneshot by Rakanoth by what seems to be an unavoidable blink attack. My main beef with it is that it has the same start up animation as his ranged attacks :<
Edit: Going to blame the 250ms explaining why I get hit by "dodged" attacks, but damn man, Diablo NM is hard enough for me. 1 shot death bone prison, 2 shot by anything else.
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Are we talking about group play or solo? I think the problem may be the scaling of difficulties to the number of players in game. Personally I find soloing through Hell and Inferno to be quite challenging.
WOW raiders are used to fighting in big groups but that's the thing I hated the most about WOW, all end game contents REQUIRE a group, I love the Diablo series in that if you are good you can finish the game solo. Taking out diablo with a group of friends is fun and all, but taking him out all by yourself makes you the strongest person in the game universe, stronger than the Prime Evil and all the angels, not just "Oh I have a good guild..." it's a totally different feeling.
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EPT
