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On June 08 2012 09:24 Derez wrote:Show nested quote +On June 08 2012 02:12 TheMango wrote:On June 08 2012 02:02 ZasZ. wrote:
Why are people hating on Vault so much? Granted, I'm only in A2 Hell on my DH, and don't have move speed % on my boots yet, but it seems to be the go-to skill for keeping distance, along with Caltrops. I haven't really noticed it being that buggy, care to explain? I think vault is situational, for certain farm runs and bosses like diablo, it might be useful. It also depends on your style. However, I think it comes down to this: 6 ability slots, normally people have 1.) left click hungering, 2.) right click nether. 3.) SS 4.) prep 5.) mark or bat companion 6.) is where its your preference - I've seen vault, impale, caltrops, gloom, etc If you're advocating vault over SS, should be obvious why SS is far superior  edit: Also, since SS is a must, vault shouldnt be used that often, as with a +8 discipline item equipped, you have exactly enough discipline for the 3 SS + prep combo, which is a must to dps down certain elite mobs. You just wont use vault often in Act2 inferno and on and will instead be depending on SS for both escape and dps. I don't agree with SS being a must. I agree that it is easier, but I personally find vault a much funner style to play, so I accept the few extra deaths I'm going to take. I manage Act 2 just fine with vault instead of SS just fine (up to Kulle), and haven't attempted Belial yet.
For belial it doesn't matter if you SS or vault (in fact i think vault is easier) but SS is much more efficient for the rest of Act 2 imo.
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Can someone tell me how many crit i should aim for??
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On June 08 2012 09:43 Clearout wrote:
^Definately the way I want to play it too. I never buy new gear without it either increasing or making my EHP stay the same, in the end I hope I will get to the point where even tongue lashers won't be a huge pain. I hate zerging, and the repair bill increase just makes me wanna do this route even more. One bad thing is I will get though the content slower and make less money because I won't start farming the later acts yet.
It's super inefficient though to try and increase a DH's eHP which is why most people just go for increasing disc instead and trying to play better.
Every other class has access to an AT LEAST 25% no questions asked boost to their eHP with most classes having something significantly more than that (Barb & Monk have innate reduction and a bunch of abilities, Wiz has force armor & diamond skin, WD has jungle fortitude & spirit vessel).
DH has nothing by comparison. All of the DH's non-binary damage mitigation takes a lot of setup, is weak, or requires a ton of disc.
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Which is exactly why I don't understand why people try to be balanced with DH. This is a pure glass cannon class that depends on huge bursts from crits. It is the fastest and most efficient way to get through and farm inferno.
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On June 08 2012 12:38 superbabosheki wrote:
Which is exactly why I don't understand why people try to be balanced with DH. This is a pure glass cannon class that depends on huge bursts from crits. It is the fastest and most efficient way to get through and farm inferno.
Being the fastest and most efficient =/= the most fun, that's why. This is exactly what the patches are trying to fix. It's just not good design if your class, with all its combinations of skills and runes, comes down to a glass cannon that depends on huge bursts from crits and that's it.
Every time I've entered a new area that one shots me, I've tried to adapt to become more survivable, and gone back to farm for better gear when necessary. Pure glass cannon is considered the "undesired" style of play from a balance perspective, not the other way around.
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I kind of like being one-shot, it's like playing Contra or some other old game. I love enemies that throw fireballs, because the projectiles are easy to see and dodge but it's still fun weaving between them. Electrified enemies are great too.
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On June 08 2012 12:57 starfries wrote:
I kind of like being one-shot, it's like playing Contra or some other old game. I love enemies that throw fireballs, because the projectiles are easy to see and dodge but it's still fun weaving between them. Electrified enemies are great too.
Well, you can still have that, I didn't mean to suggest that going for a Contra build shouldn't be possible/viable. You'll just be paying a lot more for all the deaths involved, which starts to make it a harder value proposition than when the repair costs weren't an issue.
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On June 08 2012 13:17 Fugue wrote:Show nested quote +On June 08 2012 12:57 starfries wrote:
I kind of like being one-shot, it's like playing Contra or some other old game. I love enemies that throw fireballs, because the projectiles are easy to see and dodge but it's still fun weaving between them. Electrified enemies are great too. Well, you can still have that, I didn't mean to suggest that going for a Contra build shouldn't be possible/viable. You'll just be paying a lot more for all the deaths involved, which starts to make it a harder value proposition than when the repair costs weren't an issue.
It's expensive to progress, but you only have to go through the tough areas once. Most of the time you'll be making money by farming areas where you're comfortable, so you shouldn't die very much then.
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I have about 2m to burn on gear for my DH to make it prepared for inferno, what kind of stuff should I focus on getting? I already have a 950dps bow in stash btw
Edit: Would it be worth to try and get a cheap Tal chest for the ias? Or is going full out on dex for those items better?
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On June 08 2012 19:15 Bartuc wrote:I have about 2m to burn on gear for my DH to make it prepared for inferno, what kind of stuff should I focus on getting? I already have a 950dps bow in stash btw Edit: Would it be worth to try and get a cheap Tal chest for the ias? Or is going full out on dex for those items better?
ias on pieces that usually dont have ias is inefficent (gold-wise) unless you have a LOT of other stats (dex, crit, critdmg, etc)
if you had 10 or 15m to spend on gear i would think about it and do some math. Any less and you're probably better off with the raw dex increase you could get
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On June 08 2012 19:37 tmonet wrote:Show nested quote +On June 08 2012 19:15 Bartuc wrote:I have about 2m to burn on gear for my DH to make it prepared for inferno, what kind of stuff should I focus on getting? I already have a 950dps bow in stash btw Edit: Would it be worth to try and get a cheap Tal chest for the ias? Or is going full out on dex for those items better? ias on pieces that usually dont have ias is inefficent (gold-wise) unless you have a LOT of other stats (dex, crit, critdmg, etc) if you had 10 or 15m to spend on gear i would think about it and do some math. Any less and you're probably better off with the raw dex increase you could get
Thanks!
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On June 08 2012 19:15 Bartuc wrote:I have about 2m to burn on gear for my DH to make it prepared for inferno, what kind of stuff should I focus on getting? I already have a 950dps bow in stash btw Edit: Would it be worth to try and get a cheap Tal chest for the ias? Or is going full out on dex for those items better?
Beckon Sail normally provides more bang for the the buck than Tal's chest unless you're in need of the resistances, which most people aren't.
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Unless you want the MF on your chest piece, and getting one with some dex makes it comparablel imo. I got a drop that has 35 dex 70 vit and it's just really hard to justify spending 2.5 mil for essentially a 35 dex upgrade and 1% crit. I'm sure you can find a similar tal chest piece for cheap. Of course if you can find one with +disc >100 dex that'd be ideal but those go for much much higher
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United States1967 Posts
On June 08 2012 09:24 Derez wrote:Show nested quote +On June 08 2012 02:12 TheMango wrote:On June 08 2012 02:02 ZasZ. wrote:
Why are people hating on Vault so much? Granted, I'm only in A2 Hell on my DH, and don't have move speed % on my boots yet, but it seems to be the go-to skill for keeping distance, along with Caltrops. I haven't really noticed it being that buggy, care to explain? I think vault is situational, for certain farm runs and bosses like diablo, it might be useful. It also depends on your style. However, I think it comes down to this: 6 ability slots, normally people have 1.) left click hungering, 2.) right click nether. 3.) SS 4.) prep 5.) mark or bat companion 6.) is where its your preference - I've seen vault, impale, caltrops, gloom, etc If you're advocating vault over SS, should be obvious why SS is far superior edit: Also, since SS is a must, vault shouldnt be used that often, as with a +8 discipline item equipped, you have exactly enough discipline for the 3 SS + prep combo, which is a must to dps down certain elite mobs. You just wont use vault often in Act2 inferno and on and will instead be depending on SS for both escape and dps. I don't agree with SS being a must. I agree that it is easier, but I personally find vault a much funner style to play, so I accept the few extra deaths I'm going to take. I manage Act 2 just fine with vault instead of SS just fine (up to Kulle), and haven't attempted Belial yet. I don't outgear it yet so it still requires some careful gameplay and would involve some deaths even with SS, but its perfectly playable. There's more than one way to play and gear a DH, at least in act 2, and looking at a DH I know that farms nearly all content with a relatively high HP/high resist/low DPS build, there is at higher levels too.
How can you say SS isn't a must when you're not even in Act3? You have to realize that once you're in Act3 or if you already beat diablo and you have nothing else to do except do farm runs, SS is a must. Good luck trying to dps down certain elite pack modifiers and complete farm runs fast enough for it to be worth it with vault...
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Hi, I just got a couple of questions...
1. 1h (10%crit rate), 2h bow(15%base) or 2h xbow(50%cit dmg)?
2. what should be my crit rate at least to be playing it fairly well? and crit dmg as well?
3. hp at least at what point? (takes vit to consideration)
4. atk speed? at about how much?
Thanks!
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On June 08 2012 21:43 TheMango wrote:Show nested quote +On June 08 2012 09:24 Derez wrote:On June 08 2012 02:12 TheMango wrote:On June 08 2012 02:02 ZasZ. wrote:
Why are people hating on Vault so much? Granted, I'm only in A2 Hell on my DH, and don't have move speed % on my boots yet, but it seems to be the go-to skill for keeping distance, along with Caltrops. I haven't really noticed it being that buggy, care to explain? I think vault is situational, for certain farm runs and bosses like diablo, it might be useful. It also depends on your style. However, I think it comes down to this: 6 ability slots, normally people have 1.) left click hungering, 2.) right click nether. 3.) SS 4.) prep 5.) mark or bat companion 6.) is where its your preference - I've seen vault, impale, caltrops, gloom, etc If you're advocating vault over SS, should be obvious why SS is far superior edit: Also, since SS is a must, vault shouldnt be used that often, as with a +8 discipline item equipped, you have exactly enough discipline for the 3 SS + prep combo, which is a must to dps down certain elite mobs. You just wont use vault often in Act2 inferno and on and will instead be depending on SS for both escape and dps. I don't agree with SS being a must. I agree that it is easier, but I personally find vault a much funner style to play, so I accept the few extra deaths I'm going to take. I manage Act 2 just fine with vault instead of SS just fine (up to Kulle), and haven't attempted Belial yet. I don't outgear it yet so it still requires some careful gameplay and would involve some deaths even with SS, but its perfectly playable. There's more than one way to play and gear a DH, at least in act 2, and looking at a DH I know that farms nearly all content with a relatively high HP/high resist/low DPS build, there is at higher levels too. How can you say SS isn't a must when you're not even in Act3? You have to realize that once you're in Act3 or if you already beat diablo and you have nothing else to do except do farm runs, SS is a must. Good luck trying to dps down certain elite pack modifiers and complete farm runs fast enough for it to be worth it with vault...
I farm act 3 with a SS glass cannon build, but you were suggesting that SS is a must for Act 2, which it really is not. I'm having fun progressing through the actual acts with a build using vault instead of SS and it works fine. My point was simply that if you farm a little, gear up into more defensive stats for a couple of 100k, you can make loads of specs work, which for me is a large part of the fun in the game.
I don't have the gear to make it work act 3 + 4 myself, but a friend of mine farms all content on his DH with the following stats/abilities, using DW 1h xbows:
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/B3IBJ.jpg)
There's plently of builds that can work, if you have the gear. SS being so neccessary is largely due to the way loot currently works, and with 1.0.3 I expect to see fewer glass cannon builds, and more builds with at least some survivability.
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On June 08 2012 22:25 Derez wrote:Show nested quote +On June 08 2012 21:43 TheMango wrote:On June 08 2012 09:24 Derez wrote:On June 08 2012 02:12 TheMango wrote:On June 08 2012 02:02 ZasZ. wrote:
Why are people hating on Vault so much? Granted, I'm only in A2 Hell on my DH, and don't have move speed % on my boots yet, but it seems to be the go-to skill for keeping distance, along with Caltrops. I haven't really noticed it being that buggy, care to explain? I think vault is situational, for certain farm runs and bosses like diablo, it might be useful. It also depends on your style. However, I think it comes down to this: 6 ability slots, normally people have 1.) left click hungering, 2.) right click nether. 3.) SS 4.) prep 5.) mark or bat companion 6.) is where its your preference - I've seen vault, impale, caltrops, gloom, etc If you're advocating vault over SS, should be obvious why SS is far superior edit: Also, since SS is a must, vault shouldnt be used that often, as with a +8 discipline item equipped, you have exactly enough discipline for the 3 SS + prep combo, which is a must to dps down certain elite mobs. You just wont use vault often in Act2 inferno and on and will instead be depending on SS for both escape and dps. I don't agree with SS being a must. I agree that it is easier, but I personally find vault a much funner style to play, so I accept the few extra deaths I'm going to take. I manage Act 2 just fine with vault instead of SS just fine (up to Kulle), and haven't attempted Belial yet. I don't outgear it yet so it still requires some careful gameplay and would involve some deaths even with SS, but its perfectly playable. There's more than one way to play and gear a DH, at least in act 2, and looking at a DH I know that farms nearly all content with a relatively high HP/high resist/low DPS build, there is at higher levels too. How can you say SS isn't a must when you're not even in Act3? You have to realize that once you're in Act3 or if you already beat diablo and you have nothing else to do except do farm runs, SS is a must. Good luck trying to dps down certain elite pack modifiers and complete farm runs fast enough for it to be worth it with vault... I farm act 3 with a SS glass cannon build, but you were suggesting that SS is a must for Act 2, which it really is not. I'm having fun progressing through the actual acts with a build using vault instead of SS and it works fine. My point was simply that if you farm a little, gear up into more defensive stats for a couple of 100k, you can make loads of specs work, which for me is a large part of the fun in the game. I don't have the gear to make it work act 3 + 4 myself, but a friend of mine farms all content on his DH with the following stats/abilities, using DW 1h xbows:
all content of normal? because it's hardly imaginable how to farm Acts III-IV inferno with such dps and such skills lol
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On June 08 2012 22:28 HQuality wrote:Show nested quote +On June 08 2012 22:25 Derez wrote:On June 08 2012 21:43 TheMango wrote:On June 08 2012 09:24 Derez wrote:On June 08 2012 02:12 TheMango wrote:On June 08 2012 02:02 ZasZ. wrote:
Why are people hating on Vault so much? Granted, I'm only in A2 Hell on my DH, and don't have move speed % on my boots yet, but it seems to be the go-to skill for keeping distance, along with Caltrops. I haven't really noticed it being that buggy, care to explain? I think vault is situational, for certain farm runs and bosses like diablo, it might be useful. It also depends on your style. However, I think it comes down to this: 6 ability slots, normally people have 1.) left click hungering, 2.) right click nether. 3.) SS 4.) prep 5.) mark or bat companion 6.) is where its your preference - I've seen vault, impale, caltrops, gloom, etc If you're advocating vault over SS, should be obvious why SS is far superior edit: Also, since SS is a must, vault shouldnt be used that often, as with a +8 discipline item equipped, you have exactly enough discipline for the 3 SS + prep combo, which is a must to dps down certain elite mobs. You just wont use vault often in Act2 inferno and on and will instead be depending on SS for both escape and dps. I don't agree with SS being a must. I agree that it is easier, but I personally find vault a much funner style to play, so I accept the few extra deaths I'm going to take. I manage Act 2 just fine with vault instead of SS just fine (up to Kulle), and haven't attempted Belial yet. I don't outgear it yet so it still requires some careful gameplay and would involve some deaths even with SS, but its perfectly playable. There's more than one way to play and gear a DH, at least in act 2, and looking at a DH I know that farms nearly all content with a relatively high HP/high resist/low DPS build, there is at higher levels too. How can you say SS isn't a must when you're not even in Act3? You have to realize that once you're in Act3 or if you already beat diablo and you have nothing else to do except do farm runs, SS is a must. Good luck trying to dps down certain elite pack modifiers and complete farm runs fast enough for it to be worth it with vault... I farm act 3 with a SS glass cannon build, but you were suggesting that SS is a must for Act 2, which it really is not. I'm having fun progressing through the actual acts with a build using vault instead of SS and it works fine. My point was simply that if you farm a little, gear up into more defensive stats for a couple of 100k, you can make loads of specs work, which for me is a large part of the fun in the game. I don't have the gear to make it work act 3 + 4 myself, but a friend of mine farms all content on his DH with the following stats/abilities, using DW 1h xbows: all content of normal? because it's hardly imaginable how to farm Acts III-IV inferno with such dps and such skills lol
He killed diablo over a week ago, and now spends his time non-stop farming act 3 + 4. I'm not claiming that it is an optimized build or anything, just that it is entirely possible to play DH in ways that don't revolve around a SS + prep nukefest.
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Those stats seem worse than mine and I'm scared shitless of going past the Siegebreaker because I'm going to get utterly raped down there... :|
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Those stats make me cringe. He takes 5 times longer to clear mobs than he needs to and probably dies more despite having high vit.
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EPT
