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On January 29 2012 20:44 HaXXspetten wrote:Show nested quote +On January 29 2012 20:37 Medrea wrote:
A lot of people dont know that hardcore mode means your character dies forever when it dies.
They just hear "hardcore" and go with it. Like they think it is a different difficulty or something. Hard mode. Derp. Seriously? lol Doesn't it say what it does when you select it in D3 anyway? (It didn't in D2, but even then everyone knew what it was so...)
Yup. A LOT of people just think hardcore mode is just a harder difficulty and they want it because beta content is so simple.
Thats why I get annoyed with so much "Blizz gif me hard mood" threads on Bnet and stuff.
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I would like to say a bit about why I personally enjoyed HC. For me it had nearly nothing to do with bragging / the challenge or anything along those lines.
I wanted to try the mode because at the time I was fascinated that something like one death = game permanetly over could even exist. I knew the game well enough to know that it was reasonably balanced, that if I was to die it would probably be my own fault, but it still sounded like madness.
Shortly after it became the only mode I had any interest in playing. The game simply felt more fun when the ultimate goal of myself and everyone I played with was no longer to "get rushed, get gear," but instead to stay alive.
I had my fun while I was playing the character. If it died... I'm not risking the fun I had in the past with it, and I could have fun with something else in the future.
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I haven't really played diablo 2 but I was talking about it with my friend who played the game. He said that you pretty much die in one shot in pvp combat. Maybe 2. Is this true?
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For me if it was just the items you're wearing/inventory that you lost when you died I'd really enjoy playing it but losing the entire character isn't appealing to me. I think having to grind up another character is kind of tedious, or pointless if you get power leveled anyway.
You also find everyone plays so cautious in HC mode that it kind of defeats the point. People just pull plug at any sign of danger, never want to pvp unless it's some 5v2 or hugely advantageous to them, etc...To me this is a result of the risk really being too much but people playing for the novelty of it. Like I said I think a less risky mode such as one where you only lose some gear would be more appealing.
I guess this kind of stems from the fact that gold was worthless in softcore mode, I suppose if it actually was valuable then the risk/reward for dying/killing someone would have made softcore basically perfect for me.
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I fucking love playing on hardcore. In d2 i was sceptical at first, but once you get into the motions of playing it makes everything so much more exciting because everythings on the line.
Because of this you put a lot more time and stragety into how you build your character and how you go about the bosses. Anything that adds to a games dificulty and brings out higher level play is a good one.
If you haven't tried it i strongly suggest you give it a chance.
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The appeal is similar to Dark Souls (and the like) in that your character's survival is a big deal. If you die in most games, w/e checkpoint, minor inconvenience at worst. In Diablo HC, and like games, it's a big deal, that means monsters are scary! Traps are dangerous. And so on. It changes the whole way you have to approach the game. It becomes less of a roflstomp loot piñata and much more a question of survival. You don't charge in willy-nilly so much, because it's dangerous, and dying sucks. It's lots of fun, but obviously not for everyone. Diablo's HC is one of the more severe examples of this (Dark Souls was amazing at making you care about your safety without being quite so punitive), but it absolutely increases immersion. And the satisfaction when you succeed.
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So I can tell people I'm playing hardcore and since hardcore is an experience in and of itself. You do not play the game the same in hardcore mode as you do in normal mode. It's a completely different game and you have completely different views on the same level. Things that seem easy to a normal person might scare the shit out of the hardcore player, it's just really much more fun for me. (till I die, then I swear to quit the game and then come back to it a month later)
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because it will actually test my skills, unlike the easy difficulties. The same with sc2 : I try to get as high as I can with the time that I am given, otherwise it's just boring.
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I will play hardcore with hardcore characters.
Yeah, I'm THAT hardcore
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Hardcore is fun for a couple reasons.
A) A side effect of the difficulty means you're not usually playing with quite as many perfect characters or endless equipment, which increases the difficulty of play somewhat and makes it more challenging to develop a character.
B) The adrenaline of nearly dying.
C) The different ways you have to approach battle, being cautious and slightly more tactical.
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Im suprised how many people see HC as simply increased difficulty.
I would hardly agree with that, HC makes leveling harder but at the same time limit PvP, trading etc making a lot of other game aspects easier. Getting relatively strong and rich is always easier on HC, not to mention that items are overall much more basic and less interesting. Its more like totally different game rather than higher difficulty - some things are harder, some easier or doesnt even exist at all.
In D2, HC mode required very good knowledge of monsters, abilities, good internet connection and good knowledge of char_and_item_save_mechanics and was overall mainly about leveling competition. While SC is mainly focused on trading aspects of game, not so PvE but rather about trading and gearing your chars to be as strong as possible, pretty much just for fun/trophy rooms and/or PvP.
So I really cant agree with HC being harder than SC, its just different and some people rather like 3 months of BRs and some rather like exploring game & trading and pushing boundaries of character builds and item stats as far as possible.
Im sure Ill try both SC and HC, but mainly SC simply because game is so much richer there. Its nice to have char that "never died" though you can have that on SC too, but IMO to have char with outstanding trading options, surrounded by interesting items HC players cant really dream of and having all game features like PvP available. HC in D2 was simply too limiting and Im now waiting to see how will Blizzard end with that HC PvP arena and other stuff that might make HC more interesting to me.
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I have to agree with the OP.
If the emotional experience and more stuff on a banner are the only things I'd get from HC I don't even mind not being without the achievements. But I still debate it a lot because the experience really is intense. So here's a list of my pros and cons.
Pros:
- The experience of overcoming difficulties is what games are all about; all hurdles are fictitious (a matter of the balance produced by the designers' decisions), but losing everything is as real as it gets. Beating the game without dying means surviving everything and being a consumate winner.
- Enjoying the adrenaline of being close to die (only in a competitive rather than an anguishing way).
- Can't do it without planning and strategizing, dealing with stress and making vital decisions under dangerous situations, all of which are beneficial for acquiring personal skills that make you better at doing stuff that matters in life.
- Achievements: part of beating the game and being a completionist.
- Banner: more epeen than any of the rest.
Cons:
- No RMAH; this definitely tips the scales into putting me off playing HC as my main at least. I want to get involved in the trading aspect of the game at least enough to pay for my SC2 and D3 expansions with it. There's also a feeling of accomplishment for succeeding at trading. This is also very new to videogames and can be a historic experience.
- There's no added difficulty or anything different at all, you're actually playing the same game.
- PvP? Not sure if you'll have different ladders for playing in PvP, whether it's all mixed or if SC and HC will play separately. If they are mixed, SC would outgear HC; if they are separate, then SC would probably have the biggest scene but that's a matter of choice unless you are pro enough to make money out of it.
- Short on time: if you have an active life and gaming is only a part of it, then you would be extremely bored to lose a character and make you stop playing altogether. The dread and bore or simply lack of time for grinding all the way up again made people often quit playing in D2, at least for a few days and up to months.
- Planning is all good, but when you need to tiptoe your way fighting most monsters it makes for too much time wasted just being extra careful.
- You eventually try to "cheat" your way into fights by stacking the odds in your favor as much as possible, which since HC isn't more difficult, makes for an actually easier game you're playing, although it could be argued that you can cheat a lot more easily with trading in SC - but that's fun too.
- emotional envolvement when you inevitable disconnection along with the seemingly waste of time of having to
- The excessive risks of losing everything for reasons that are beyond your responsibility: the inevitable server-side disconnection (set to become the invincible D3 HC killer - Blizz won't restore HC characters under any circumstance), any random event, etc, can all be too frustrating.
- Finally, you could just play SC with the intent of not dying and commit to it if you want the intensity of HC without the excessive risks you can't control: then you have a reasonable safety net, without compromising the game experience, that I feel is quite fair. I'll go this route.
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None hardcore in D2 was too easy. And its all about the thrill that if you die, its forever. that made hardcore so much more fun. Once i played Hardcore in d2, i could not play normal again. Another good thing, Market never gets overflooded by items like in normal.
Not sure how it will be in d3 thoe, But if they do what they say maybe we wont need to play Hc to get that feeling, we will see.
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Also, although I agree with the OP I just find it a bit ironic or just funny he'd do a thread like this and have his signature be something like «If it is worth doing, it is worth OVER-doing». Isn't then HC seriously over-doing it, hence worth it? 
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hardcore IS increased difficulty, just not in the way of more monsters or better stats. The fact that you cant get away with dieing still makes it harder, as you need to make sure you are focussed all the time and not just wandering around aimlessly
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I would go Hardcore even if the game was single player and it had no reward whatsoever. I need to feel the risk to actually be motivated to play, especially on lower difficulty levels. Diablo games are far too grindy for my taste otherwise. D2 felt like an extreme time waste without HC.
I actually wish other games would have this option as well. I would probably have played a lot more WoW if it had hardcore character mode (so maybe it's a good thing it didn't).
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Well when the game is completed on the other difficulties, and there is nothing else to do, isn't it a sort of new frontier/challenge? What is there to lose (except your character)? :p
+ Show Spoiler +Assuming Blizzard keeps the way Hardcore works, the same.
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On January 30 2012 07:45 Talin wrote:
D2 felt like an extreme time waste without HC.
this. Whats the point of putting hundreds of hours into a game, with the goal to have just the same equipment like every1 else? This "boring" grinding without ANY risk, is just the reason why so many ppl stopped playing WoW etc (now dont tell me that the loss of some exp. is a risk that needs to be considered).
Without hardcore mode Diablo is the most boring grinding game ever (at least after 1 week when u beat the game once).
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Hardcore with 3 good friends is going to be amazing. I can't wait.
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I never saw the point of it in d2 cos back on 56k modem you died from lag all the fucking time.
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EPT
