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I briefly touched on this in a comment earlier, but I felt like it deserved a thread of it's own.
This is something that's been bothering me for over a decade: Why do people play Hardcore?
I've never really understood it. It just seems as if you're increasing the risk factor extensivly, without doing anything to the counterpart. Now, I don't have D3 beta unfortunately, but as far as I've understood, Hardcore is about the same thing as in D2. Namely, you get cooler titles upon beating difficulties, you have a more "aggressive" look when idling, and whenever you die... it's permanent.
How could that trade possibly be worth it? There is no practical reason. The only explanation, and the one I'm sure most people has, is the challenge of it all. The intensity, the feeling of urgency, etcetera, not to mention the respect of having a max level character, who's beaten Inferno and got all the coolest gear without ever dying. To that I say, sure. If you manage to get that, that's incredible... but I could never take that chance. What if you die close to the end, losing absolutely everything for nothing? I'll put it this way; I've played Modern Warfare 2 for over 1000 hours, I know all about raging at video games. Diablo is not the kind of game which makes you mad. But, if you were to lose a high-level Hardcore character... I'd not just be mad, I'd be downright depressed and desperate. I had a friend a long time ago who lost his level 94 Barbarian in D2, and he essentially wasn't himself for at least a month. It's just... cruel.
Don't get me wrong, I'm all for increased difficulty. But not in this way. If I want a bigger challenge, I want it in the way of tougher opposition, or tighter restrictions, but this... Hardcore is just the same as Softcore, except that you'll be shaking with nervousity, constantly aware that one mistake and it'll be all over. It's not harder, but its mental impact is insane, and just makes you feel terrible, even when you're alive... and if you die... words can't explain that feeling. I've went Hardcore once in D2... I'll never do it again, it was just horrible.
So, why do you do it? Is it some kind of personal goal? Do you find the all-or-nothing sensation thrilling? Or does it just seem more manly? 
By all means, enlighten me, because Hardcore seems so wrong in my eyes...
Poll: Will you go Hardcore in Diablo 3 or not? (Why?)Yes (570) 66% No (297) 34% 867 total votes Your vote: Will you go Hardcore in Diablo 3 or not? (Why?) (Vote): Yes
(Vote): No
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Well its high risk for little reward. It's just an option that gives players a choice on how they want to play it.
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In D2 I always treated hardcore as a fun, adventurous thing to do when I was bored of normal chars. I honor those on D3 who decide to go straight into hardcore after finishing normal difficulty (as that is the prerequisite).
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Like you said, that elated feeling you get when you achieve it, and the gloating you can do later. I'm a pretty patient guy, so for me, they make up for it entirely.
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Why should there be a reward besides the act itself? Do you beat games on insane difficulty because you're hoping to get some reward? No, you do it for the satisfaction and the challenge.
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On January 29 2012 17:36 HaXXspetten wrote:
Hardcore is just the same as Softcore, except that you'll be shaking with nervousity, constantly aware that one mistake and it'll be all over. It's not harder, but its mental impact is insane...
That's exactly it. Having a real risk of failure makes success that much more fulfilling. Without any penalty for dying, the game lacks tension and is little more than a flashy Skinner box. How many times did you ever experience "OMFG I'M GOING TO DIE" moments in Diablo 2? It's been well over a decade since I played, and I can still remember my biggest ones in hardcore mode. With softcore, it's just like "meh, whatever." No emotional involvement, no risk, no thrill. Just mindlessly click and pick up loot. I don't care about challenge or showing off my character -- I just want that adrenaline surge of zoning in to fight a major boss for the first time with a character, knowing that if I lose, it's back to start.
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On January 29 2012 18:00 ShadowDrgn wrote:Show nested quote +On January 29 2012 17:36 HaXXspetten wrote:
Hardcore is just the same as Softcore, except that you'll be shaking with nervousity, constantly aware that one mistake and it'll be all over. It's not harder, but its mental impact is insane... That's exactly it. Having a real risk of failure makes success that much more fulfilling. Without any penalty for dying, the game lacks tension and is little more than a flashy Skinner box. How many times did you ever experience "OMFG I'M GOING TO DIE" moments in Diablo 2? It's been well over a decade since I played, and I can still remember my biggest ones in hardcore mode. With softcore, it's just like "meh, whatever." No emotional involvement, no risk, no thrill. Just mindlessly click and pick up loot. I don't care about challenge or showing off my character -- I just want that adrenaline surge of zoning in to fight a major boss for the first time with a character, knowing that if I lose, it's back to start.
What if that's 100+ hours in on that character? Would you still just shrugg it of and go all the way back just like that?
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Extra thrill and fun of course.
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I haven´t tried D3, but in D2 i basically only played untwinked hardcore with some friends. Its just more fun when you have be more careful and actually consider whats up ahead, instead of just maxing damage and run head first into every room to see how many milliseconds it takes to clear it. Its the thrill when you barely survive and the feeling of total emptiness when you do die. It just makes the game more meaningful.
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Is there any practical reason for trying to get the highest score possible? Or for trying to get every achievement? Nope. It's all about bragging rights. In this case the experience of having an almost constant adrenaline rush is also pretty important.
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For bigger ePeen.
In almost any (singlepalyer games specially) there are multiple difficulties you can attend. Look at the SC2 singleplayer for example. Why would anyone play that campain on brutal, when you can just play on easy? Its all the same game just made harde for no practical reason (like you say).
It´s for the challenge. And seeing so many post about "lol D3 is sooooooo eazy lol no challenge lol easy epix", you can just wonder why those people (broad generalisation) don´t go for hc .
It looks like you would want to see some ingame advantage for those going into hc, like hc only items. In wow those who do hc raids are in the same world as those who do raids on normal. And they can change what difficulty they are doing whenever they want. That is the main reason why you get better stuff from hc than normal in wow. In D3 hc and normal characters cannot play in same game. Or even trade items. So its useless to make better gear to only part of the players to drop.
For me it is a reminder of da good old times, when saving games was not even an option, and if you lost your few lives, you had to start it all from beginning.
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i played d2 and played through it sure inferno was hard and all but it was eh i could be a retard run in kill shit die and respawn
but hardcore mode is a different story give the game "difficulty" a kind that is different from inferno that just puts you on the edge of your seat THATS what i like out of my game to be scaredshitless everytime a boss comes up or something doesnt go the way i had planned out
so i guess i play hardcore because i like the mental anguish that follows you around while its is getting played..and if you die the realization that you have to do it ALL over again heheh
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On January 29 2012 18:02 HaXXspetten wrote:Show nested quote +On January 29 2012 18:00 ShadowDrgn wrote:On January 29 2012 17:36 HaXXspetten wrote:
Hardcore is just the same as Softcore, except that you'll be shaking with nervousity, constantly aware that one mistake and it'll be all over. It's not harder, but its mental impact is insane... That's exactly it. Having a real risk of failure makes success that much more fulfilling. Without any penalty for dying, the game lacks tension and is little more than a flashy Skinner box. How many times did you ever experience "OMFG I'M GOING TO DIE" moments in Diablo 2? It's been well over a decade since I played, and I can still remember my biggest ones in hardcore mode. With softcore, it's just like "meh, whatever." No emotional involvement, no risk, no thrill. Just mindlessly click and pick up loot. I don't care about challenge or showing off my character -- I just want that adrenaline surge of zoning in to fight a major boss for the first time with a character, knowing that if I lose, it's back to start. What if that's 100+ hours in on that character? Would you still just shrugg it of and go all the way back just like that?
Oh hell no I'm not going to just shrug it off. I'm still raw about that barbarian I lost in lower kurast in 2000 when I disconnected with a single monster left in the whole zone. That was some bullshit, but 'tis better to have loved and lost, than never to have loved at all.
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On January 29 2012 18:08 cjin wrote:
For bigger ePeen.
In almost any (singlepalyer games specially) there are multiple difficulties you can attend. Look at the SC2 singleplayer for example. Why would anyone play that campain on brutal, when you can just play on easy? Its all the same game just made harde for no practical reason (like you say).
It´s for the challenge. And seeing so many post about "lol D3 is sooooooo eazy lol no challenge lol easy epix", you can just wonder why those people (broad generalisation) don´t go for hc .
It looks like you would want to see some ingame advantage for those going into hc, like hc only items. In wow those who do hc raids are in the same world as those who do raids on normal. And they can change what difficulty they are doing whenever they want. That is the main reason why you get better stuff from hc than normal in wow. In D3 hc and normal characters cannot play in same game. Or even trade items. So its useless to make better gear to only part of the players to drop.
For me it is a reminder of da good old times, when saving games was not even an option, and if you lost your few lives, you had to start it all from beginning.
It's not the same as in the SC2 campaign. It's different types of increased difficulty. In SC2 for example, the difference between the difficulties is, well, the actual difficulty, whereas in Diablo it's the same, merely with a different risk factor if you lose. Translate that to SC2, and it would only exist one difficulty, but you could have the option of making it so that if you ever fail a mission, you'd have to restart from mission 1.
As far as HC-bonuses go, I wouldn't mind it, but it's not really what I meant. I don't want HC characters to have better gear by default by completing the same things as a normal character, but rather there should be some sort of Hardcore zone, or similar, where the opposition is stronger and the loot is different or something.
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I played both SC and HC accts for D2 and frankly if not for HC, I would have quit D2 a long time before real life and other games took over. Yes I have lost characters twinked out in uber gear due to various reasons but it is all part and parcel of the "allure" of HC. If not for the excitement and danger factor that you could lose your character permanently any second, especially in public games due to ganking, D2 would get pretty boring.
As for myself, for D3 retail, I would be actually playing SC past Inferno stages just to get into the groove since I don't have beta xs, and switch to HC soon after.
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I will mostly be playing Softcore but I will eventually (within the first 4 months of release) create a HC character with some friends that I get to 60 and clear inferno with.
It will just be an interesting challenge, and I think it'll be cool to be able to flex that epeen to my friends and try to get them to do HC with me.
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Because pk'ing an duelling in hardcore is fun...
Unlike softcore where you can kill some1 50 times in row and they keep trash talking and coming back for more .
Pvm wise you should never die anyway, so no change there.
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You're clearly not an adrenaline junkie
I'm going to play hardcore... on my second playthrough.
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OP clearly doesn't play zerg
the payoff of constantly in fear of getting owned as zerg and hardcore are the same ... the euphoria in succeeding is tremendous
also, you can laugh at your friends when they die ... makes for some epic stories ... trying to min/max untwinked chars in hardcore is so LOL
u can add in playing mmos with world pvp to the list as well
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haha, yeah, well I'm a master protoss, I played WoW on a normal server, and I would probably not call myself an adrenaline junkie neither, so I guess that might be one reason
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EPT
