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On February 02 2012 10:39 Sek-Kuar wrote:
Its a lot more intense to watch soccer game you placed bet on, but real fans can simply just enjoy game without adrenaline of losing weeks payments. Not every person has gambling issues, not everyone needs to feel HC.
Not to meantion that saying HC is more about skills is ridiculous, HC is just about not dying to AI. Real skills come to play mainly on SC where trading, item variability is much higher, so player with player interaction are much more important. Beating fallen without dying while abusing save etc. mechanics takes just campaign skills, but comprehensive knowledge of game and items required to became truly succesful trader and player on SC is what takes real skills.
Really please stop putting "issues" with "hardcore players" every other sentence in your comments its disturbing, insulting and incorrect.
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On January 29 2012 17:36 HaXXspetten wrote:
What if you die close to the end, losing absolutely everything for nothing? I'll put it this way; I've played Modern Warfare 2 for over 1000 hours, I know all about raging at video games.
You spent 1000 hours playing MW2 for nothing in my eyes. Once you point out why it wasn't for nothing in your eyes you will realize why people play hardcore.
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On February 02 2012 10:39 Sek-Kuar wrote:
Its a lot more intense to watch soccer game you placed bet on, but real fans can simply just enjoy game without adrenaline of losing weeks payments. Not every person has gambling issues, not everyone needs to feel HC.
Not to meantion that saying HC is more about skills is ridiculous, HC is just about not dying to AI. Real skills come to play mainly on SC where trading, item variability is much higher, so player with player interaction are much more important. Beating fallen without dying while abusing save etc. mechanics takes just campaign skills, but comprehensive knowledge of game and items required to became truly succesful trader and player on SC is what takes real skills.
You are talking out of your ass. Please stop because the poo smell is unbearable.
Save mechanic? There is none.
Item variability higher in SC? Items are the same in SC and HC.
Trading higher in SC? Only difference in HC is you can't use real money to buy items.
I am sure you will die to a fallen.
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On February 03 2012 03:47 willoc wrote:Show nested quote +On January 29 2012 17:36 HaXXspetten wrote:
What if you die close to the end, losing absolutely everything for nothing? I'll put it this way; I've played Modern Warfare 2 for over 1000 hours, I know all about raging at video games. You spent 1000 hours playing MW2 for nothing in my eyes. Once you point out why it wasn't for nothing in your eyes you will realize why people play hardcore.
I spent that amount of time on it because I was addicted, okay? I can willingly admit that I think it's a bad game, and yes it was pretty much just a waste of time.
Point being, let's not drag MW2 into this, ok? It's a different issue altogether. Unlike it, Diablo is actually worth spending 1000+ hours on, and it's meaningful time, and thus I'd rather not lose the meaningful accomplishments that I've gained during it merely by dying once.
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On February 03 2012 03:57 HaXXspetten wrote:Show nested quote +On February 03 2012 03:47 willoc wrote:On January 29 2012 17:36 HaXXspetten wrote:
What if you die close to the end, losing absolutely everything for nothing? I'll put it this way; I've played Modern Warfare 2 for over 1000 hours, I know all about raging at video games. You spent 1000 hours playing MW2 for nothing in my eyes. Once you point out why it wasn't for nothing in your eyes you will realize why people play hardcore. I spent that amount of time on it because I was addicted, okay? I can willingly admit that I think it's a bad game, and yes it was pretty much just a waste of time.
You had fun didn't you? That's the point I was trying to make. Hardcore is fun as well because of the added risk.
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Softcore is for the feint at heart. That is why I will be playing SC. Hardcore is for the heavy metal fans etc etc.
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On February 03 2012 03:50 willoc wrote:Show nested quote +On February 02 2012 10:39 Sek-Kuar wrote:
Its a lot more intense to watch soccer game you placed bet on, but real fans can simply just enjoy game without adrenaline of losing weeks payments. Not every person has gambling issues, not everyone needs to feel HC.
Not to meantion that saying HC is more about skills is ridiculous, HC is just about not dying to AI. Real skills come to play mainly on SC where trading, item variability is much higher, so player with player interaction are much more important. Beating fallen without dying while abusing save etc. mechanics takes just campaign skills, but comprehensive knowledge of game and items required to became truly succesful trader and player on SC is what takes real skills. You are talking out of your ass. Please stop because the poo smell is unbearable. Save mechanic? There is none. Item variability higher in SC? Items are the same in SC and HC. Trading higher in SC? Only difference in HC is you can't use real money to buy items. I am sure you will die to a fallen.
I was talking about D2, since nobody can tell what will be in D3, and in D2 HC had a lot of this "abuse save/TP skills" things.
And saying HC and SC market are same is highly unrealistic opinion, SC market is always bigger with much higher variability and much higher and interesting items. Theoretically its possible to get same item on HC, but in reality in HC you can be just doing Andy MF runs all day long selling shakos and vipers and became rich from that.
So you can kill fallen wihtout dying and sell your shako and think how good you are with you single player/campaign skills, good for you. But real skills are in multi player, on SC, trading high rares and crafted items HC players never saw. That requires comprehensive game knowledge, trading skills and all kind of multi player skills interacting.
Its really rediculous how many people think nowadays that SP and beating AI takes real skills. Let me guess, you think you are best SC2 player in the world because you beat campaign on brutal? Go play tetris.
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Most of the hc players atleast in d2 were a joke. "omg i'm so pro" Then they're only running with friends who are ready to pickup their items or just use all kinds of hacks. what a joke.
and a new char can be made in 3 days ofc
It makes some sense if u're unable to make urself play more careful without something forcing u to do it.
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I use to play hardcore quick runs with my brother. How it worked was we both started separate games and had one hour to start a new character and make it as powerful as you can within that time. Then after the hour had passed, you would fight to the death together.
Also as a rule, if you died you had to remake a new hero and start again. The hour count down would not reset if you died. Thus you might remake several times within the hour.
It made for fun games and tactics.
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How exactly is HC harder? Not trying to pick a fight here, I just don't see it, while you guys obviously do, so please enlighten me.
The difficulties are the same, the monsters are the same, they hit for the same amount as in SC, there are equal numbers of them etc.
Yeah, sure it sucks to lose a character you've spent months on, but its not HARDER to lose it in SC. You just have to be more careful, while in SC you dont have to care as much, since you can do it again.
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On February 03 2012 06:09 McNulty wrote:
How exactly is HC harder? Not trying to pick a fight here, I just don't see it, while you guys obviously do, so please enlighten me.
The difficulties are the same, the monsters are the same, they hit for the same amount as in SC, there are equal numbers of them etc.
Yeah, sure it sucks to lose a character you've spent months on, but its not HARDER to lose it in SC. You just have to be more careful, while in SC you dont have to care as much, since you can do it again.
Therefore it's harder.
I understand what you say, encounters are the same, yeah. But the fact that you cannot retry makes it harder to reach the end.
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On February 03 2012 06:20 rezoacken wrote:Show nested quote +On February 03 2012 06:09 McNulty wrote:
How exactly is HC harder? Not trying to pick a fight here, I just don't see it, while you guys obviously do, so please enlighten me.
The difficulties are the same, the monsters are the same, they hit for the same amount as in SC, there are equal numbers of them etc.
Yeah, sure it sucks to lose a character you've spent months on, but its not HARDER to lose it in SC. You just have to be more careful, while in SC you dont have to care as much, since you can do it again. Therefore it's harder. I understand what you say, encounters are the same, yeah. But the fact that you cannot retry makes it harder to reach the end.
Overall, the individual segments of the game are even, but the odds of winning it all in the first attempt are considerably smaller than just winning it, thus actually finishing the game is a lot harder in HC. Whether that means that the game is actually better in HC is a more debated question.
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On February 03 2012 06:29 HaXXspetten wrote:Show nested quote +On February 03 2012 06:20 rezoacken wrote:On February 03 2012 06:09 McNulty wrote:
How exactly is HC harder? Not trying to pick a fight here, I just don't see it, while you guys obviously do, so please enlighten me.
The difficulties are the same, the monsters are the same, they hit for the same amount as in SC, there are equal numbers of them etc.
Yeah, sure it sucks to lose a character you've spent months on, but its not HARDER to lose it in SC. You just have to be more careful, while in SC you dont have to care as much, since you can do it again. Therefore it's harder. I understand what you say, encounters are the same, yeah. But the fact that you cannot retry makes it harder to reach the end. Overall, the individual segments of the game are even, but the odds of winning it all in the first attempt are considerably smaller than just winning it, thus actually finishing the game is a lot harder in HC. Whether that means that the game is actually better in HC is a more debated question.
Yeah his argument was like saying: p"laying a full song on the guitar with no fault is not harder than playing little segments of it that you can retry if you fail".
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On February 03 2012 06:09 McNulty wrote:
Yeah, sure it sucks to lose a character you've spent months on, but its not HARDER to lose it in SC. You just have to be more careful, while in SC you dont have to care as much, since you can do it again.
Pretty sure you can't lose a character in SC unless you delete it.
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On February 03 2012 06:09 McNulty wrote:
How exactly is HC harder? Not trying to pick a fight here, I just don't see it, while you guys obviously do, so please enlighten me.
The difficulties are the same, the monsters are the same, they hit for the same amount as in SC, there are equal numbers of them etc.
Yeah, sure it sucks to lose a character you've spent months on, but its not HARDER to lose it in SC. You just have to be more careful, while in SC you dont have to care as much, since you can do it again.
The arguments of "Hardcore is harder" isn't necessarily about the game difficulty, but the differences in play style and character builds due to the risk-averse nature of having permanent death.
For example, in D2 Softcore, my botting characters (often blizzard sorceresses) were pretty much streamlined completely for damage and efficiency. In addition, I never payed much care when teleporting, since death involved me exiting the game and creating a new one.
D2 Hardcore is an entirely different animal - your characters can't be streamlined for damage, and gear has to attend to stats such as HP, Faster Hit Recovery, etc, which often means lower damage output and efficiency. In addition, teleporting can become a deathtrap if you run into that dreaded mana-burn champion pack.
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8 man hardcore runs back in the day were amazing when you actually managed to get everyone online at the same time. >_<
At one point in D2 I was almost exclusively hardcore as I had a friend that only played hardcore and he had several level ~90 hardcore characters. Definitely the way to play, so intense and gets your heart really pumping. Amazing adrenaline rush when you are close to death.
That being said I won't start off in HC in D3, but I will definitely switch eventually, as I don't think D3 will have the same longevity as D2 has, but I guess I could be wrong.
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I'll play hardcore for the challenge. Is the same reason as to why I don't load games when I play hoi 3. Losing a carrier group sucks but if you don't risk anything you won't gain anything. It's just empty grinding.
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In a nutshell, the problem with softcore is that death stops "working" on you after a few times. You're supposed to want to avoid death and to feel like you "lost the game" or failed somehow when you die. You're supposed to want to make a character in a way that he will avoid death. But after dozens or even hundreds of hours you stop caring about that part of the game and it becomes about obtaining items. At that point, death is just part of the calculation and in that calculation it is virtually trivial.
In softcore, if I'm gearing up to do Meph Runs I might have to choose between gear that will help keep me alive and gear that will pump up my magic find. It is almost always best to choose the MF gear and just take a few extra deaths here and there. In HC there's more to consider.
This also affects playstyle. After a ladder reset in softcore I would always rush a sorc up and start doing hell Andy and Meph runs. This comes with a lot of deaths because everything in hell will one shot you when you're level 70 and wearing crap gear. Of course that doesn't matter though since those deaths are a very minor inconvenience.
HC ends up feeling like a more filled out game. Defensive skills and defensive gear matter more. More builds are worth considering since defensive oriented builds are useful.
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People are also 100x nicer and the community in general is a lot more helpful. (IMO obviously)
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Before debating i think most of the people here should experience a 8 man hardcore run themselves.
Hell, the idea of just finishing (if lan-ing with friends) you actually utilize half of the games skill trees to stay alive, "useless skills"(in terms of MAXIMUM DPS EFFICIENCY) for their survivability, holy shit was hardcore fun.
Diablo, as much of it being the sole gateway game that got me into pc gaming (and internet, in general) is linear in itself in softcore, since once your told the truth about 80% of the content is shit and there is only 10% of gear worth going for, ignore the rest of skills/gear ect, hell its kind of boring at times.
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What if you die close to the end, losing absolutely everything for nothing?
The difference is that if you play hardcore, you shouldn't consider the time wasted. All the hours you played are still yours, you've simply lost some items.
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EPT
