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On January 22 2011 05:01 fuzzy_panda wrote:
good and insightful interview, even if theres the classic idra whine. seriously back in sc1 when terran sucked, did Boxer whine about how crappy terran was? no, he came up with new strats and became the most famous e-sports representative on the planet.
That's such a fallacy. You assume that he's complaining about balance instead of developing strategies when it's possible (and more probable) that he's doing both.
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Pretty solid interview. Idra is getting pretty damn good at explaining things.
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On January 22 2011 04:33 Tula wrote:please not another balance discussion..... Idra stated his opinion, now you might say it is wrong, pessimistic or biased, all those complaints are valid, but it is still his opinion and the current facts have proven him right to some extent. Look at the Tournament results Z HAS a problem currently. What exactly that problem is and how it can be solved is a balance discussion or a gameplay discussion which needs to be adressed in the proper way. Whining like 6 years olds " You are wrong" "No you are wrong" etc. is not the proper way. If you think you have a brilliant build which solves the current weakness from a zerg perspective take it to the strategy board and present it. If you think the balance needs to be adressed in a patch take it to the Blizzard boards and whine there. Flaming back and forth here about how wrong idra is, contributes nothing to this discussion. Personally i disagree with him, but then i have the luxury of being able to deny 3 Maps in my ladder games and i do not face Pros who can marinesplit perfectly without fail. At that level (2.5k Diamond) Zerg is fine against Terran, and so far i haven't met many Protoss who play good Air builds yet either. I find it curious that Idra and Athosis are convinced MVP will take the GSL4, when he choked pretty badly in the 3 previous tournaments. I guess we'll see :D Personally i can't wait for the games  edit: Just a small endnote because someone posted something i disagree with while i was writing this. If you truly think Reapers are small risk high reward units might i refer you to baneling dropping his mineral line? It's probably cheaper and the rewards are much higher. Banshees are also not what i'd call a no risk unit against Zerg, since as soon as a single Muta pops your pretty expensive banshee is going to be dead. Yes Terrans have very good ways to disrupt a Zergs macro, but they are usually found in the standard units and not the gimmicky stuff which might or might not work (and usually only works if your opponent has been stupid. By the time banshees can arrive in the Zergs base he can easily have a lair up and 3 Queens).
Baneling drops are great, but the timing on them is pretty late compared to reapers. Reapers are also excellent early game scouts, they're the only tier 1 cliff-jumping unit.
And because Terran's most basic attacking unit, the marine, provides anti-air defense, it is much easier for a Terran to deny a drop than for a Zerg to deny banshee harass. I'm not saying it's impossible, I do it all the time. It's just so delayed you might as well get mutas.
Terran has a lot of options at the tier 1 and 1.5 level to harass that is relatively safe. So far, the only real harass options that I have at the 8 to 9 minute mark are fast mutas, which opens you up to a lot of timings and is pretty easy to shut down with a couple of turrets and a handful of marines. If a Terran is really dumb you might be able to baneling bust them, but this is impossible on certain maps.
I've been having a lot a trouble against players that simply straight-up 1-base stim mass-marine. I'm not a good player or anything, but it bugs me that even on my level, Terrans can dictate the flow of a game so easily, never mind a player like Marine King, who can enjoy considerable success by controlling and producing just one unit and abusing all the timing opportunities it gives him.
I'm not complaining, it's just hard to imagine this is the type of play Blizzard envisioned when designing the game.
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Just wanted to echo everyone else and say thanks so much for bringing this insightful interview (along with all your wonderful work in the GSL) Best of luck hope you make code A!
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This is exactly why I am a fan of Idra. While he does have his upset moments, like everyone does, overall he is a very calm, collected, and, above all, a logical player.
Thank you for this video!
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On January 22 2011 04:07 Pixel. wrote:Show nested quote +On January 22 2011 04:01 nekuodah wrote:
I love how everyone on this forum starts screaming zerg imbalance when idrA says it, for him yes it could be because hes playing at the top tier, whereas a large majority (making this up but wouldnt suprise me) here are too busy crying imbalance to fix the major flaws in their gameplay.
On topic: i love you artosis great interview and i personally cannot wait to check out idrA's streams again. It is not only IdrA, Ret and Nestea and fruitdealer are saying it to. Mabye more great zerg players. And great interview. And love the vods for europa \o/
It also comes from T and P players if you're in Korea. Remember most of them in GSL play in a team and believe it or not they do share the pain of their teammates. Also more and more "regular" people are complaining because they can't find games v. Z on battle.net. (lol)
Thank you for the interview. I still have a lot of disappointment from the Ro8 games. Wish the T was man enough to play a straight up game but then again he would have lost as we saw in game 1, so I guess you shouldn't really expect such nicety. But still, I am now left with a very bad taste after that game and I have stopped watching GSL games. Without any P left, I will probably check Nestea's games results and will watch VODs if he wins. I may become very selective in watching GSL games or may stop watching it all together.
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It really sounds like idra is miserable playing zerg:/ such a talented player he should consider switching races if only to slow down that balding with less stress 
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Mr Artosis can you and IdrA comment on the new Jungle Basin
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On January 22 2011 05:14 joheinous wrote:It really sounds like idra is miserable playing zerg:/ such a talented player he should consider switching races if only to slow down that balding with less stress
He's not miserable at all. He's just stating what he thinks.
Great interview as always.
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Scheduled streaming time? Commenting after good games? Uploading the vods too?
I need to change my pants.
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thanks for doing these videos artosis and thanks in advance to idra for doing something like that, i think some good player doing analysis on a stream will be good ~
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Cayman Islands24199 Posts
On January 22 2011 05:00 DoubleReed wrote:Show nested quote +On January 22 2011 04:43 Zarahtra wrote:On January 22 2011 04:29 Jermstuddog wrote:On January 22 2011 04:24 Zarahtra wrote:On January 22 2011 03:14 H0i wrote:
Nice interview.
Now talking about idra, I think he's just too much of a whiner. This constant whining of zerg being too weak is not going to change anything, if he keeps thinking his race is weak then that's not going to make him win more.
As a master league random/protoss player I admit say that it can be frustrating to play zerg on small maps, but the main reason so few protoss and zerg make it to Ro8 or Ro4 is because they are underrepresented. When the game was very new terran was a lot stronger, you can say op, because people did not know how to deal with them. Everyone picked terran and now we have an overdose of GSL terran players. The balance changes that were made help to even things out, and people found out new strategies. The game is a lot more fair than before and it's going in the right direction. If only guys like idra (and everyone else who whines about balance) stops whining and starts thinking of new ways to win then the situation might improve more.
Look at fruitdealer and nestea, look at mc. They did things differently and won GSL's. I just don't think he sees how insanely good zerg is lategame and just totally ignores it therefore. The game can only be balanced if you take all the strengths/weaknesses into account. I'd still love a inject nerf/natural larvae regen buff as a way to try to equalize it a bit. Still a nice interview, Artosis as awesome as always with the content. I don't think idra gives jinro enough credit though, he's such a diverse player, while he's good at macro games, he's not as terrible as idra in shorter matches(ok idras macro game compared to his cheese/allins, he's obv still awesome). He doesn't see it because it doesn't exist. Nothing about Zerg late game is particularly powerful unless you make it through early and mid game in decent shape, and quite frankly, Zerg doesn't have the tools to make it that far against a good opponent. The only late game power Zerg has is bad opponents who let them stockpile thousands of resources. And that kind of view just annoys me. "If my opponent can't hurt me, it's fine that I just auto win the game". Well I can understand that this might be annoying on such maps as SoW, close position meta/LT etc where your opponent has such an easy time getting into your face, but on a map such as meta cross position it's the same deal for terrans atleast. But I mean that's all fine and good, the zerg is just better, because he can win in macro game and has nothing to do with the fact that zerg is just better in macro games. I mean I'm not going to argue that maps are in a bit of a silly state(I'd say only 2 are balanced for TvZ atleast, SP & XC) but if it reaches the lategame, suddenly the zerg is just a better player and should have 90% win chance, even if the terran took no noticeable losses, macroed well, while still forcing some units even if he didn't crush the zerg's econ. Idra's opinion on Zerg lategame: Show nested quote +and the idea that z is somehow the strongest late game race is fuckin absurd. hive units are nearly useless and horribly cost inefficient unless broodlords catch them off guard. ya, you can insta remax if you're allowed to get a giant econ, but remaxing on lair units vs collosus or tank based armies hardly matters when you can trade 200/200 for a tenth of their army. Idra is not "ignoring" zerg's lategame advantage. Idra does not believe zerg has a lategame advantage. The Protoss and Terran 200/200 armies are just too untouchable.
you are looking at endgame as a state, an instance, but each game is actually a process. zerg macro mechanics enable the zerg to pump a lot more drones in a given time at certain stages of the game, meaning they can get troops quicker and end the game before terran/toss achieve critical mass of high tech units. it doesn't always happen of course, but merely comparing 200 population balls of end game units isn't very informative.
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idra is always a great interviewee and artosis is a great interviewer =] <3
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idra looks like a good guy
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Thanks so much Artosis and ofc also to Idra that he will create so much content :-)
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first video with both Artosis and IdrA in it i've seen since the release of SC2 where none complain how OP terran is.
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On January 22 2011 03:58 Eric9 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 22 2011 03:35 Roggay wrote:On January 22 2011 03:21 ToDoNtE wrote:
should have asked if he's thinking about changing race ! IdrA answered this question times and times again. Although he thinks Zerg is weak atm, he will not change races (although he is playing toss a bit) because he invested so much time into Zerg. what terrible logic, are u sure he's a pro? He could invest the time from now until the next big tourney practicing another race. If he's as good as people say he is it should be no problem. User was temp banned for this post.
lol it takes AGES to master a race well. or get anywhere good enuff to compete at a pro level. Some example of race changes includes TLO and Morrow. Two very good Terran since the start of the beta.
THey made the change to Zerg. This is in no way dis-respecting them but they have not made any big splash lately. They kind of just dropped from the radar. I remember back then TLO with his ingenius Terran play and Morrow winning many of the tournaments. This could also be because I haven't been following Sc2 as closely as I was back in the holidays, but still. THe point is, it's NOT easy to switch race especially at the level they're at atm.
Telling your sponsor "oh hai, i'm just gonna lose for the next couple of months, you still willing to sponsor me though?" is NOT good considering that's probably Idra's only form of income is.
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Huge thanks for the interview, it cleared some stuff up for me 
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Great interview thanks Artosis
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