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Thanks Artosis & thanks IdrA for that interview 
Looking forward to those VODs!
On January 22 2011 04:33 Tula wrote:
please not another balance discussion.....
Idra stated his opinion, now you might say it is wrong, pessimistic or biased, all those complaints are valid, but it is still his opinion and the current facts have proven him right to some extent.
So if a P in Korea would start to cry (state his opinion) it would be alright to you?
Looking at GSL "4" I see:
RO 16 - 4P, 3Z
RO 8 - 2P, 2Z
RO 4 - 0P 1Z
If you follow Idras logic "Nestea is only in RO4, because Choya doesnt deserve Code S" you would have:
RO 16 - 3P, 3Z
RO 8 - 1P, 2Z
RO 4 - 0P, 0Z
I dont see Zs to have much more "facts" on their side compared to Ps.
The only thing going for the Z argument may be that P havent figured their airbuild out yet. But then I can also say, that Zs havent figured their counters to those airbuilds yet. And you cannot say "I cannot counter it" when you dont even know how it looks like.
The "facts" only show, that there are a lot more terrans compared to both other races.
Why this is - the facts dont provide. It might be bad players for P, Z underpowered. But it might be the other way around as well (bad Z players, P underpowered) or nothing of this at all.
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On January 22 2011 05:50 Joroth wrote:
IdrA is the best now he's posting content? he gets like 4k viewers when he streams randomly i can't begin to imagine the amount of people a 2 hour show is going to bring.
hes got 1000 people waiting around for him when hes not streaming.. pretty amazing.
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hmm.. the Analysis thing by IdrA seems intresting.
well its going to be awesome.
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Another awesome interview, thanks Artosis, and thank you Idra!
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I really liked the Interview, thanks Artosis! I can only sign what Idra said about the state of Zerg..
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nice video, Artosis. thanks
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IdrA always comes off really well in these interviews, really looking forward to watching the VODs too. Thanks for posting Artosis.
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thanks. great interview artosis.
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On January 22 2011 05:53 Angelbelow wrote:Show nested quote +On January 22 2011 05:50 Joroth wrote:
IdrA is the best now he's posting content? he gets like 4k viewers when he streams randomly i can't begin to imagine the amount of people a 2 hour show is going to bring. hes got 1000 people waiting around for him when hes not streaming.. pretty amazing.
Hehe, I was one of those back last time he would be streaming. Didn't want to miss a minute.
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Idra, keeping an eye out of us in the EU. <3 you. Chin up, keep fighting.
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Thanks for the video Artosis, great to hear Idra's input on things.
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Artosis, your re-awakened channel is delicious. Keep up the good work man!
As for mr Fields, as always I enjoy hearing his analysis, even if the message isn't a very happy one for us zerg. Not going to comment further on that though, as it's really not possible to have a sane balance discussion with people atm.
Looking forward to the renewed streaming however, the plan sounds pretty awesome. At least GSL got us that sooner I guess. And thanks upfront for recording it, I would have been awake, but I'm glad I won't have to be ><
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Quote from Choya's ro16 Winner's interview
Q. Your next opponent is IMNesTea, do you think that the recent patch will effect this match?
A. I don't think the patch will come into play. I always thought that the PvZ match-up was imbalanced. In our team, we call Zergs a pathetic race. However, this is IMNesTea, so I think he'll come up with a solution.
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On January 22 2011 02:58 Rhyme wrote:
awesome! thanks, artosis. i really hope idra's success this season re-invigorates his drive. it's kinda surprising to hear that idra, the machine, slacked on practice before his 2nd group (although it obviously worked out ^^).
IdrA also achieved a personal best in SC1 after not practicing. He made it his farthest in his OSL (or something) group after only practicing for a few days of SC1 because he has been practicing SC2 in the CJ house. Hmm...maybe IdrA should not practice at all? 
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On January 22 2011 05:53 Zocat wrote:Thanks Artosis & thanks IdrA for that interview Looking forward to those VODs! Show nested quote +On January 22 2011 04:33 Tula wrote:
please not another balance discussion.....
Idra stated his opinion, now you might say it is wrong, pessimistic or biased, all those complaints are valid, but it is still his opinion and the current facts have proven him right to some extent. So if a P in Korea would start to cry (state his opinion) it would be alright to you? Looking at GSL "4" I see: RO 16 - 4P, 3Z RO 8 - 2P, 2Z RO 4 - 0P 1Z If you follow Idras logic "Nestea is only in RO4, because Choya doesnt deserve Code S" you would have: RO 16 - 3P, 3Z RO 8 - 1P, 2Z RO 4 - 0P, 0Z I dont see Zs to have much more "facts" on their side compared to Ps. The only thing going for the Z argument may be that P havent figured their airbuild out yet. But then I can also say, that Zs havent figured their counters to those airbuilds yet. And you cannot say "I cannot counter it" when you dont even know how it looks like. The "facts" only show, that there are a lot more terrans compared to both other races. Why this is - the facts dont provide. It might be bad players for P, Z underpowered. But it might be the other way around as well (bad Z players, P underpowered) or nothing of this at all.
If a Top Protoss Pro wants to state his opinion I'd respect it, just as i respect Idra's. I have to admit and acknowledge that they spend more time on the game and understand it better than i do.
Curiously you will find almost no top tier Protoss who does complain. MC won the last GSL in a rout through Jinro and Rain two Terran players who favor very different playstyles. And after that a patch came out which buffed the Protoss race twice.
Frankly the last GSL was "too soon" after the new patch (not a complaint, but a fact, simply put the top teams and players didn't factor the changes into their builds perfectly yet).
Indeed as you say the facts state two things, one a lot more people on the highest pro level play Terran with a high degree of success, and we don't have the data to make sweeping statements yet :D
You seem to have missed my point though, i freely acknowledge that the real reason for the perceived imbalance might be in the failed understanding of the matchups/builds for example i considered Terran mech to be weak against protoss and only mixed in a few tanks to get rid of excess Gas. Jinro showed us pretty convincingly that if played correctly and with the right positions Terran Mech can win against Protoss.
Maybe a similar revolutionary build will appear for Zerg, but on pure theorycraft i currently don't see the unit which is so underused that it will provide that impulse. There are some abilities left out which do not get enough "air time" in pro play (neural parasite, investors in general, Ravens against Z, Nukes, Motherships for Protoss and carrier based air builds in general etc.) but most of those builds as we have seen them so far, have a pretty serious weakness in them which Pros could easily exploit.
So to sum up this wall of text with a tl;dr my point is simply that i dislike these discussions in general, but i especielly dislike it if someone simply takes a statement out of context to back their own point of view. As i said, Idra stated his opinion, it doesn't make his opinion fact even if he has some data to back it up, simply because the amount of data available currently isn't nearly enough for a detailed examination. If you believe Idra wrong or right feel free to find some data to either prove him wrong or back him up, but stop this back and forth bickering....
PS: The biggest problem with tournament results as a base to review race balance with is the small sample size in total. A decent protoss player like Genius (decent might be an insult considering he is class S and deserves it, i simply meant a player playing on average in the top 16 of a major tournament and not a serial winner/bonjwa (sp?)) might loose a game he probably should have won because he went for some cheese instead of a straight up game. If your whole sample size is 3 Protoss to begin with, than such a loss would completly upset your results even if it was based on something completly different than game balance.
If your sample size was 100 players of each race playing a total of 100 games each you'd reach fairly well spread results fast, but we don't have a tournament like that to work with (for obvious reasons) so we have to stick to the "sub-optimal" GSL results instead.
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On January 22 2011 05:24 me_viet wrote:Show nested quote +On January 22 2011 03:58 Eric9 wrote:On January 22 2011 03:35 Roggay wrote:On January 22 2011 03:21 ToDoNtE wrote:
should have asked if he's thinking about changing race ! IdrA answered this question times and times again. Although he thinks Zerg is weak atm, he will not change races (although he is playing toss a bit) because he invested so much time into Zerg. what terrible logic, are u sure he's a pro? He could invest the time from now until the next big tourney practicing another race. If he's as good as people say he is it should be no problem. User was temp banned for this post. lol it takes AGES to master a race well. or get anywhere good enuff to compete at a pro level. Some example of race changes includes TLO and Morrow. Two very good Terran since the start of the beta. THey made the change to Zerg. This is in no way dis-respecting them but they have not made any big splash lately. They kind of just dropped from the radar. I remember back then TLO with his ingenius Terran play and Morrow winning many of the tournaments. This could also be because I haven't been following Sc2 as closely as I was back in the holidays, but still. THe point is, it's NOT easy to switch race especially at the level they're at atm. Telling your sponsor "oh hai, i'm just gonna lose for the next couple of months, you still willing to sponsor me though?" is NOT good considering that's probably Idra's only form of income is.
It's certainly difficult to master more than one races, but ZeNEXByun is showing lately that it is definitely possible.
Oh, and TLO started out as random, switched to terran, then zerg, then back to random. I'm under the impression he's been switching whenever he feels like things aren't turning out as well as he wanted.
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On January 22 2011 06:17 Sein wrote:Show nested quote +On January 22 2011 05:24 me_viet wrote:On January 22 2011 03:58 Eric9 wrote:On January 22 2011 03:35 Roggay wrote:On January 22 2011 03:21 ToDoNtE wrote:
should have asked if he's thinking about changing race ! IdrA answered this question times and times again. Although he thinks Zerg is weak atm, he will not change races (although he is playing toss a bit) because he invested so much time into Zerg. what terrible logic, are u sure he's a pro? He could invest the time from now until the next big tourney practicing another race. If he's as good as people say he is it should be no problem. User was temp banned for this post. lol it takes AGES to master a race well. or get anywhere good enuff to compete at a pro level. Some example of race changes includes TLO and Morrow. Two very good Terran since the start of the beta. THey made the change to Zerg. This is in no way dis-respecting them but they have not made any big splash lately. They kind of just dropped from the radar. I remember back then TLO with his ingenius Terran play and Morrow winning many of the tournaments. This could also be because I haven't been following Sc2 as closely as I was back in the holidays, but still. THe point is, it's NOT easy to switch race especially at the level they're at atm. Telling your sponsor "oh hai, i'm just gonna lose for the next couple of months, you still willing to sponsor me though?" is NOT good considering that's probably Idra's only form of income is. It's certainly difficult to master more than one races, but ZeNEXByun is showing lately that it is definitely possible. Oh, and TLO started out as random, switched to terran, then zerg, then back to random. I'm under the impression he's been switching whenever he feels like things aren't turning out as well as he wanted.
I personally don't have any criticism for anyone who switches or plays random.
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Thanks for these interviews. I really enjoy them!
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I just love how bluntly honest he is about everything. Definitely my SC idol right now. Random rage on ladder is a little off-putting, but not damning in the slightest. Thanks for the interview! IdrA fighting!!!!!!
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Looking forward to his vods.
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EPT
