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[Update] choyafOu penalized by GomTV for ladder abuse - Pa…

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480 CommentsPost a Reply
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Warmyth
Profile Joined April 2010
Netherlands107 Posts
January 13 2011 09:50 GMT
#81
In my opinion Blizzard can't really do anything about it, there statement of winning is simple 'If you are the last player to leave the game', so if players leave after losing rock-paper-siccor, how is this wrong?

Ofcourse it should not be possible to get stuff like code B because of this though...
Our light shall burn the pathway to the stars.
Liquid`Nazgul
Profile Blog Joined September 2002
22427 Posts
January 13 2011 09:53 GMT
#82
On January 13 2011 18:50 Warmyth wrote:
In my opinion Blizzard can't really do anything about it, there statement of winning is simple 'If you are the last player to leave the game', so if players leave after losing rock-paper-siccor, how is this wrong?

Ofcourse it should not be possible to get stuff like code B because of this though...

I doubt this is true. If they didn't have additional rules beyond this it would imply maphacking is fine as well. There's obviously more to their rules that just being the last to leave the game.
Administrator
kirkybaby
Profile Joined May 2010
Korea (South)781 Posts
January 13 2011 09:57 GMT
#83
On January 13 2011 18:53 Liquid`Nazgul wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 13 2011 18:50 Warmyth wrote:
In my opinion Blizzard can't really do anything about it, there statement of winning is simple 'If you are the last player to leave the game', so if players leave after losing rock-paper-siccor, how is this wrong?

Ofcourse it should not be possible to get stuff like code B because of this though...

I doubt this is true. If they didn't have additional rules beyond this it would imply maphacking is fine as well. There's obviously more to their rules that just being the last to leave the game.

i think blizzard perceives this more as a minor exploitation and not in violation of eula, unlike map hacking, etc. direct and unauthorized modification of the game is a bannable offense, unlike persuading someone to do something completely within the confines of regular play (in this case, asking someone to leave).
tournament history: 512th place in Altitude TLOpen #1
Phenny
Profile Joined October 2010
Australia1435 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-01-13 09:58:20
January 13 2011 09:57 GMT
#84
But to determine a winner it's that (leaving the game, soz forgot to quote) or destroy opponents buildings.
Liquid`Nazgul
Profile Blog Joined September 2002
22427 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-01-13 10:02:21
January 13 2011 09:59 GMT
#85
On January 13 2011 18:57 kirkybaby wrote:
i think blizzard perceives this more as a minor exploitation and not in violation of eula, unlike map hacking, etc. direct and unauthorized modification of the game is a bannable offense, unlike persuading someone to do something completely within the confines of regular play (in this case, asking someone to leave).

Absolutely inaccurate. So in a ladder qualifier to a big tournament you can just ask your opponent to leave every game and qualify with 100-0 and 100 freewins and you would say it is completely within the confines of regular play? Aka nobody playing a single match and everyone abusing their way into the tournament?

I don't know where you come up with these arguments. If Blizzard doesn't do anything it is because a) they couldn't or don't want to prove intent or b) due to negative publicity they refuse to make a bigger deal out of the situation. It is not because they think it is fine for players to do this, no chance.
Administrator
AngryJackB
Profile Joined July 2010
Congo83 Posts
January 13 2011 09:59 GMT
#86
If you can talk someone into leaving and taking a lose. I think you deserve that win.
Ma jae Yoon, July, Jaedong reppin the swarm. Ma jae Yoon owns fo ever.
kirkybaby
Profile Joined May 2010
Korea (South)781 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-01-13 10:04:06
January 13 2011 10:02 GMT
#87
On January 13 2011 18:59 Liquid`Nazgul wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 13 2011 18:57 kirkybaby wrote:
i think blizzard perceives this more as a minor exploitation and not in violation of eula, unlike map hacking, etc. direct and unauthorized modification of the game is a bannable offense, unlike persuading someone to do something completely within the confines of regular play (in this case, asking someone to leave).

Absolutely inaccurate. So in a ladder qualifier you can just ask your opponent to leave every game and qualify with 100-0 and 100 freewins and you would say it is completely within the confines of regular play?

not within regular play, but it's not violating any of the terms that blizzard has laid out in the legal agreement a player has inherently agreed to by playing sc2. i'm looking at it more from a legal perspective, rather than a moral/ethical perspective. obviously i don't condone it, but it's far from maphacking imho.

edit: i might be wrong, there might be something (it'd have to be vague if it's in there) that states this kind of action is against the eula. i also think blizzard would probably dq someone who has obviously exploited the system to gain entry into one of their sponsored tournaments.
tournament history: 512th place in Altitude TLOpen #1
Warmyth
Profile Joined April 2010
Netherlands107 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-01-13 10:07:23
January 13 2011 10:04 GMT
#88
On January 13 2011 18:53 Liquid`Nazgul wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 13 2011 18:50 Warmyth wrote:
In my opinion Blizzard can't really do anything about it, there statement of winning is simple 'If you are the last player to leave the game', so if players leave after losing rock-paper-siccor, how is this wrong?

Ofcourse it should not be possible to get stuff like code B because of this though...

I doubt this is true. If they didn't have additional rules beyond this it would imply maphacking is fine as well. There's obviously more to their rules that just being the last to leave the game.


I really don't think they have a rule that can use against this, and if they have one, then probally a lot of other things that happen in games are also wrong.

For example, you also can't ask a player to 'Please leave?' at the start of the game? And maybe you could also say that it is Illegal to cheese, cause games end a lot faster this way then macro games, so you as a cheese player winning 50-60% of games would get a higher rating a lot faster ?

I think this is a area where it is really difficult to difine things as legal or illegal.

Edit: Ofcourse I still agree that this should not be possible, because there are big things like qualifications coupled to your rating, and Blizzard is not fine with it.
Our light shall burn the pathway to the stars.
Liquid`Nazgul
Profile Blog Joined September 2002
22427 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-01-13 10:08:58
January 13 2011 10:08 GMT
#89
If someone has the link to Blizzards T&A of the game and the ladder rules it would really shock me if they have nothing against abuse and or fair play. Unless you have a link with proof I think it's safe to assume Blizzard will not have forgotten to write a small paragraph about this. Including a rule about fair play is standard procedure usually.
Administrator
revoN
Profile Joined February 2010
Japan804 Posts
January 13 2011 10:08 GMT
#90
As long as he didn't do anything illegal I don't know how can you call this a scandal. I think Plexa is right and it was just to hide his match history (and fast).
StarCraft도 Quake도 좋아해요.
haka
Profile Joined July 2010
United States1414 Posts
January 13 2011 10:09 GMT
#91
On January 13 2011 18:59 Liquid`Nazgul wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 13 2011 18:57 kirkybaby wrote:
i think blizzard perceives this more as a minor exploitation and not in violation of eula, unlike map hacking, etc. direct and unauthorized modification of the game is a bannable offense, unlike persuading someone to do something completely within the confines of regular play (in this case, asking someone to leave).

Absolutely inaccurate. So in a ladder qualifier to a big tournament you can just ask your opponent to leave every game and qualify with 100-0 and 100 freewins and you would say it is completely within the confines of regular play? Aka nobody playing a single match and everyone abusing their way into the tournament?


If a tournament is basing qualification on ladder ranking then I don't think it would be that hard to DQ someone based on their match history. If they see something fishy and look into it they should consider them ineligible.
trancey_
Profile Joined May 2010
Germany729 Posts
January 13 2011 10:10 GMT
#92
what has this to do with GSL though??
Magikarp
Profile Joined November 2010
United States32 Posts
January 13 2011 10:10 GMT
#93
Where are all the games where he wins the RPS and the other guy just stays and plays a game? What progamer 'honor' makes them leave once they lost the rps.
"Hit 'em with a splash attack."
Warmyth
Profile Joined April 2010
Netherlands107 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-01-13 10:20:16
January 13 2011 10:14 GMT
#94
I have tried to look it up:

As it say's on the first link: They have T&A for Battle.net, nothing starcraft specific

http://us.blizzard.com/en-us/company/legal/
http://us.blizzard.com/en-us/company/about/termsofuse.html

Edit: Only thing I can make out of these is that if Blizzard wants to, they can do everything they want to to punish a player, without giving a reason
Our light shall burn the pathway to the stars.
Nobu
Profile Joined June 2010
Spain550 Posts
January 13 2011 10:15 GMT
#95
On January 13 2011 17:29 IdrA wrote:
if he wants games decided by random chance he could just play the way he always does

Just woke up, and im sure to be laughing the rest of the day XDDDD.
As the quote from nazgul says, i think a top player shoudnt do that in the "official" ranking, even if it isnt accurate, is the one that we have now, and you cant just say, its ok because he is Code S, this kind of stuff is ok if all you want are portraits from team games or something like that, not to cheat the ladder, its pretty sad.
"There's farmers and there's gamers, farmers get up early, gamers sleep in." Artosis
Ribbon
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States5278 Posts
January 13 2011 10:18 GMT
#96
I don't actually see this causing too many problems at the levels where it really matters.

Assume Choya was some no-name getting his code B qualification by asking people to RPS him.

It would take exactly one (1) person to submit a replay of this to the GSL, or Blizzard, or even Team Liquid to get it known and to get Choya disqualified.

Which isn't to say that it's not bad, of course. It's a bit unethical and demeans the GSL by lowering the integrity of Code B. But I don't think you could get into Code B that way, because if they take the top 200 players on the ladder, and you tried to Rock-Paper-Scissors number 201...
Liquid`Nazgul
Profile Blog Joined September 2002
22427 Posts
January 13 2011 10:19 GMT
#97
On January 13 2011 19:14 Warmyth wrote:
I have tried to look it up:

As it say's on the first link: They have T&A for Battle.net, nothing starcraft specific

http://us.blizzard.com/en-us/company/legal/
http://us.blizzard.com/en-us/company/about/termsofuse.html

BLIZZARD MAY SUSPEND, TERMINATE, MODIFY, OR DELETE ACCOUNTS AT ANY TIME FOR ANY REASON OR FOR NO REASON, WITH OR WITHOUT NOTICE TO YOU. Accounts terminated by Blizzard for any type of abuse, including without limitation a violation of these Terms of Use, will not be reactivated for any reason. For purposes of explanation and not limitation, most account suspensions, terminations and/or deletions are the result of violations of this TOU, a Game EULA or other Blizzard policy. You may cancel any Account registered to you at any time by following the instructions on the Website. Blizzard may stop offering and/or supporting the Service at any time.

Standard.
Administrator
kirkybaby
Profile Joined May 2010
Korea (South)781 Posts
January 13 2011 10:22 GMT
#98
On January 13 2011 19:19 Liquid`Nazgul wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 13 2011 19:14 Warmyth wrote:
I have tried to look it up:

As it say's on the first link: They have T&A for Battle.net, nothing starcraft specific

http://us.blizzard.com/en-us/company/legal/
http://us.blizzard.com/en-us/company/about/termsofuse.html

Show nested quote +
BLIZZARD MAY SUSPEND, TERMINATE, MODIFY, OR DELETE ACCOUNTS AT ANY TIME FOR ANY REASON OR FOR NO REASON, WITH OR WITHOUT NOTICE TO YOU. Accounts terminated by Blizzard for any type of abuse, including without limitation a violation of these Terms of Use, will not be reactivated for any reason. For purposes of explanation and not limitation, most account suspensions, terminations and/or deletions are the result of violations of this TOU, a Game EULA or other Blizzard policy. You may cancel any Account registered to you at any time by following the instructions on the Website. Blizzard may stop offering and/or supporting the Service at any time.

Standard.

With all due respect, that's a pretty big stretch. Additionally, that doesn't really validate what you were saying earlier, as this says that Blizzard has the right to ban you, not to DQ you from future sponsored events. Now, I understand this is the TOU for Battle.net but I just disagree with your underlying notion that ladder exploitation (which isn't even proven) is on par with something like maphacking, and that Blizzard should take action against him. They're well within their right to, but then again, they can ban you for absolutely nothing and be well within their rights too, see the first sentence of your C&P.
tournament history: 512th place in Altitude TLOpen #1
byce
Profile Joined July 2010
United States98 Posts
January 13 2011 10:24 GMT
#99
Is it bad that he did this, or is it bad that ladder rankings have anything to do with tournament seeding?
Bliznako
Profile Joined November 2010
Serbia165 Posts
January 13 2011 10:25 GMT
#100
Similar things happened in WoW when people were trying to up their ranking in the Arena or power level new teams. It isn't ethical and if need be, Blizzard will add new rules, however, you might just face a ban and be the scapegoat to warn other people from abusing it.
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