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[Update] choyafOu penalized by GomTV for ladder abuse - Pa…

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480 CommentsPost a Reply
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slowzerg
Profile Joined May 2010
United States62 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-01-18 08:33:18
January 18 2011 06:54 GMT
#441
On January 18 2011 11:18 palefountains wrote:
It's the problem of the ladder mechanism, not the players. Ridiculous to punish choya...


The ladder system does have problems but I fail to understand how its flaws make it fair-game to exploit these shortcomings to gain an unfair point advantage. Maphacks exploit shotcomings in SC2's design and are banned for good reason - the same applies to exploiting flaws in the ladder system design.
NEOtheONE
Profile Joined September 2010
United States2233 Posts
January 18 2011 19:01 GMT
#442
On January 13 2011 17:29 IdrA wrote:
if he wants games decided by random chance he could just play the way he always does


Leave it to IdrA to have an awesome quote as per usual.
Abstracts, the too long didn't read of the educated world.
ClanRH.TV
Profile Joined July 2010
United States462 Posts
January 18 2011 23:12 GMT
#443
Seems like the GomTV commission has an extremely different view of integrity then most of the people here on teamliquid. They punished him because he was cheating to get ahead on the ladder...I don't see what people think is funny or immoral about this.
"Don't take life too seriously because you'll never get out alive."
azr
Profile Joined August 2010
Norway144 Posts
January 19 2011 00:12 GMT
#444
On January 18 2011 11:18 palefountains wrote:
It's the problem of the ladder mechanism, not the players. Ridiculous to punish choya...


That is the stupidest comment I have read in a long time.
eclipsE90
Profile Joined October 2010
United States5 Posts
January 19 2011 02:34 GMT
#445
I think people are missing the point here. Unlike us he's a professional. If we did something like this should we be punished? No, obviously. It's a game for us (although we should be ashamed if we did!). But he is paid to play and should uphold the standards and honor code of the game just like any other professional of any other sport would do. Ever hear of Pete Rose(I know that's an extreme example but he also disrespected the game he played)? Anyways, I'm sure his intentions were just playful/comedic and he will learn from this, but come on man...think b4 u act Choya.
GET TO THE CHOPPA -Arnold Swartzenager
palefountains
Profile Joined March 2010
China24 Posts
January 19 2011 02:57 GMT
#446
On January 19 2011 09:12 azr wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 18 2011 11:18 palefountains wrote:
It's the problem of the ladder mechanism, not the players. Ridiculous to punish choya...


That is the stupidest comment I have read in a long time.


Why?

If you're referring to the first paragraph, I'm not the first one saying that in this thread.
If it is the second paragraph, better come up with a reason, or a better solution.
good
eclipsE90
Profile Joined October 2010
United States5 Posts
January 19 2011 03:09 GMT
#447
On January 19 2011 11:57 palefountains wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 19 2011 09:12 azr wrote:
On January 18 2011 11:18 palefountains wrote:
It's the problem of the ladder mechanism, not the players. Ridiculous to punish choya...


That is the stupidest comment I have read in a long time.


Why?

If you're referring to the first paragraph, I'm not the first one saying that in this thread
If it is the second paragraph, better come up with a reason, or a better solution.


Because even though the ladder might not be perfect, not even playing games legitimately hurts any progress towards a better ladder. So I think he's saying its stupid for you to take the stance of "its the ladders fault because it makes it possible"... Blizzard probably needs good, reliable statistics from the ladder at the masters level and when small things like this happen, they can grow into big problems if enough people start doing it. So punishing Choya to dissuade others from doing it would be the correct action by Blizzard and GOM.
GET TO THE CHOPPA -Arnold Swartzenager
palefountains
Profile Joined March 2010
China24 Posts
January 19 2011 03:11 GMT
#448
On January 19 2011 11:34 eclipsE90 wrote:
I think people are missing the point here. Unlike us he's a professional. If we did something like this should we be punished? No, obviously. It's a game for us (although we should be ashamed if we did!). But he is paid to play and should uphold the standards and honor code of the game just like any other professional of any other sport would do. Ever hear of Pete Rose(I know that's an extreme example but he also disrespected the game he played)? Anyways, I'm sure his intentions were just playful/comedic and he will learn from this, but come on man...think b4 u act Choya.


Are ladder games professional? I don't think so. If so, then everybody who plays a ladder game, is professional, theoretically. Not a big difference between choya, and you. You might be invited to a Blizzard-sponsored event, if you played well.

Hence, ladder games are just for fun at home. Will a pro poker/bridge player be penalized by any authorities just because he/she cheated in a home-party poker/bridge game with friends? At the very least, Blizzard should follow a kind of "une fois n'est pas coutume" policy in this unclear area.

good
palefountains
Profile Joined March 2010
China24 Posts
January 19 2011 03:20 GMT
#449
On January 19 2011 12:09 eclipsE90 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 19 2011 11:57 palefountains wrote:
On January 19 2011 09:12 azr wrote:
On January 18 2011 11:18 palefountains wrote:
It's the problem of the ladder mechanism, not the players. Ridiculous to punish choya...


That is the stupidest comment I have read in a long time.


Why?

If you're referring to the first paragraph, I'm not the first one saying that in this thread
If it is the second paragraph, better come up with a reason, or a better solution.


Because even though the ladder might not be perfect, not even playing games legitimately hurts any progress towards a better ladder. So I think he's saying its stupid for you to take the stance of "its the ladders fault because it makes it possible"... Blizzard probably needs good, reliable statistics from the ladder at the masters level and when small things like this happen, they can grow into big problems if enough people start doing it. So punishing Choya to dissuade others from doing it would be the correct action by Blizzard and GOM.

I'm not against this opinion.
But it is very hard to define what is legal or not here, I think. Every time I met my friend in the ladder, I was happy to quit the game to save some time since we wanted to play with unfamiliar players. Is it illegal? I played a thirty-minute game and was tired of it, so chose play a rock-paper-scissors duel with my opponent to end it. Is it illegal? Yes you can say Choya's action is illegal here. My point is that there is not a fine line.
good
applejuice
Profile Joined October 2010
307 Posts
January 19 2011 03:24 GMT
#450
I don't think the reason GSL punished him is because they could theoretically use his ladder to qualify him for something.

That's missing the point.

I think it's more of a "you are playing in our league - play with integrity at all times because you're representing our brand".

The same thing happens in western professional sports, too, for stuff that happens off the court/field (e.g. NBA).
palefountains
Profile Joined March 2010
China24 Posts
January 19 2011 03:34 GMT
#451
On January 19 2011 12:24 applejuice wrote:
I don't think the reason GSL punished him is because they could theoretically use his ladder to qualify him for something.

That's missing the point.

I think it's more of a "you are playing in our league - play with integrity at all times because you're representing our brand".

The same thing happens in western professional sports, too, for stuff that happens off the court/field (e.g. NBA).


But I think they won't punish such behavior in a custom game, if it actually happens...

And I also think that it is reasonable, if not more reasonable, for them to punish pro players using abusive language in ladder games. Just a hypothesis.

But you are right. They have the right to do whatever they like within GSL.
good
Babaganoush
Profile Joined November 2010
United States626 Posts
January 19 2011 05:38 GMT
#452
I don't know how I feel about this. If it was like choyafou being like Michael Vick and holding illegal animal betting matches, then I guess he should be DQed from future GSLs. However, in this case, he didn't force the opponent to play a RPS match with him, but rather, gave them the choice to.

There's the argument that GSL wants to hold up the integrity of the players... but he didn't maphack or anything.

If there were a Starcraft debate class, great subject to argue for and against on, lol.
Stick a fork in those buns.
Devastate
Profile Joined August 2010
United States25 Posts
January 19 2011 06:28 GMT
#453
I'm honestly failing to derive any tangible consequence to any of this? Scandal? Jesus, it's like perezhilton.com for SC2.
ReaperX
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
Hong Kong1758 Posts
January 19 2011 07:43 GMT
#454
Wow.
Artosis : Clide. idrA : Shut up.
Noli
Profile Joined January 2011
United Kingdom179 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-01-19 16:37:46
January 19 2011 16:35 GMT
#455
What the... Why would you do this if you're already a highly rated player so what's the ladder mean to you. :s Doesn't bother me in the slightest.

On January[/tlpd] 13 2011 17:29 IdrA wrote:
if he wants games decided by random chance he could just play the way he Always does



:D haha
Noobricorn
Profile Joined January 2011
United States5 Posts
January 19 2011 18:08 GMT
#456
The reason choyafOu did this is because he sucks. No one respects his play style because he is 100% cheese. He knows he is bad so he feels like by climbing the ladder he is proving something... For anyone who thinks he is a legit player please go watch what he did to his teammate this year in the GSL... Code S Round of 16 Group B Match 4 Set 1.


He's trash and he ruins the GSL, and now the ladder too...

Here's the link for Code S Ro16 Group B Match 4 Set 1.

http://www.gomtv.net/2011gslsponsors1/vod/59686
IMBA IMBA IMBA IMBA IMBA IMBA IMBA IMBA IMBA IMBA IMBA IMBA IMBA IMBA IMBA IMBA
MamiyaOtaru
Profile Blog Joined September 2008
United States1687 Posts
January 19 2011 20:00 GMT
#457
look at all of these noobs not grasping the concept that abuse is not tolerated. Noobs who do grasp it, I am not talking about you
Ansinjunger
Profile Joined November 2010
United States2451 Posts
January 19 2011 20:22 GMT
#458
I don't really care whether Choya's punished for this. What saddens me is that people would rather play RPS than play SC2 for ladder points.
Belphegor13
Profile Joined December 2010
Sweden19 Posts
January 19 2011 20:25 GMT
#459
On January 19 2011 11:57 palefountains wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 19 2011 09:12 azr wrote:
On January 18 2011 11:18 palefountains wrote:
It's the problem of the ladder mechanism, not the players. Ridiculous to punish choya...


That is the stupidest comment I have read in a long time.


Why?

If you're referring to the first paragraph, I'm not the first one saying that in this thread.
If it is the second paragraph, better come up with a reason, or a better solution.


I think it is very saddening that so many share that view. Sure, Blizzard and their ladder system is far from perfect, but that doesn't justify abuse. The problem of ladder abuse exists because there are players willing to abuse it. The ladder system wasn't supposed to be used for games of RSP, so by using it as such players are creating a flaw in the system.

Of course, cheaters will always exist. But that doesn't mean we should approve of what they're doing...
Providence
Profile Joined May 2010
United States125 Posts
January 19 2011 21:18 GMT
#460
How would you even rock/paper/scissors on battle.net?
The truth is incontrovertible, malice may attack it, ignorance may deride it, but in the end; there it is. - Winston Churchill
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