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On January 18 2011 11:18 palefountains wrote:
It's the problem of the ladder mechanism, not the players. Ridiculous to punish choya...
The ladder system does have problems but I fail to understand how its flaws make it fair-game to exploit these shortcomings to gain an unfair point advantage. Maphacks exploit shotcomings in SC2's design and are banned for good reason - the same applies to exploiting flaws in the ladder system design.
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On January 13 2011 17:29 IdrA wrote:
if he wants games decided by random chance he could just play the way he always does
Leave it to IdrA to have an awesome quote as per usual.
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Seems like the GomTV commission has an extremely different view of integrity then most of the people here on teamliquid. They punished him because he was cheating to get ahead on the ladder...I don't see what people think is funny or immoral about this.
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On January 18 2011 11:18 palefountains wrote:
It's the problem of the ladder mechanism, not the players. Ridiculous to punish choya...
That is the stupidest comment I have read in a long time.
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I think people are missing the point here. Unlike us he's a professional. If we did something like this should we be punished? No, obviously. It's a game for us (although we should be ashamed if we did!). But he is paid to play and should uphold the standards and honor code of the game just like any other professional of any other sport would do. Ever hear of Pete Rose(I know that's an extreme example but he also disrespected the game he played)? Anyways, I'm sure his intentions were just playful/comedic and he will learn from this, but come on man...think b4 u act Choya.
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On January 19 2011 09:12 azr wrote:Show nested quote +On January 18 2011 11:18 palefountains wrote:
It's the problem of the ladder mechanism, not the players. Ridiculous to punish choya...
That is the stupidest comment I have read in a long time.
Why?
If you're referring to the first paragraph, I'm not the first one saying that in this thread.
If it is the second paragraph, better come up with a reason, or a better solution.
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On January 19 2011 11:57 palefountains wrote:Show nested quote +On January 19 2011 09:12 azr wrote:On January 18 2011 11:18 palefountains wrote:
It's the problem of the ladder mechanism, not the players. Ridiculous to punish choya...
That is the stupidest comment I have read in a long time. Why? If you're referring to the first paragraph, I'm not the first one saying that in this thread If it is the second paragraph, better come up with a reason, or a better solution.
Because even though the ladder might not be perfect, not even playing games legitimately hurts any progress towards a better ladder. So I think he's saying its stupid for you to take the stance of "its the ladders fault because it makes it possible"... Blizzard probably needs good, reliable statistics from the ladder at the masters level and when small things like this happen, they can grow into big problems if enough people start doing it. So punishing Choya to dissuade others from doing it would be the correct action by Blizzard and GOM.
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On January 19 2011 11:34 eclipsE90 wrote:
I think people are missing the point here. Unlike us he's a professional. If we did something like this should we be punished? No, obviously. It's a game for us (although we should be ashamed if we did!). But he is paid to play and should uphold the standards and honor code of the game just like any other professional of any other sport would do. Ever hear of Pete Rose(I know that's an extreme example but he also disrespected the game he played)? Anyways, I'm sure his intentions were just playful/comedic and he will learn from this, but come on man...think b4 u act Choya.
Are ladder games professional? I don't think so. If so, then everybody who plays a ladder game, is professional, theoretically. Not a big difference between choya, and you. You might be invited to a Blizzard-sponsored event, if you played well.
Hence, ladder games are just for fun at home. Will a pro poker/bridge player be penalized by any authorities just because he/she cheated in a home-party poker/bridge game with friends? At the very least, Blizzard should follow a kind of "une fois n'est pas coutume" policy in this unclear area.
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On January 19 2011 12:09 eclipsE90 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 19 2011 11:57 palefountains wrote:On January 19 2011 09:12 azr wrote:On January 18 2011 11:18 palefountains wrote:
It's the problem of the ladder mechanism, not the players. Ridiculous to punish choya...
That is the stupidest comment I have read in a long time. Why? If you're referring to the first paragraph, I'm not the first one saying that in this thread If it is the second paragraph, better come up with a reason, or a better solution. Because even though the ladder might not be perfect, not even playing games legitimately hurts any progress towards a better ladder. So I think he's saying its stupid for you to take the stance of "its the ladders fault because it makes it possible"... Blizzard probably needs good, reliable statistics from the ladder at the masters level and when small things like this happen, they can grow into big problems if enough people start doing it. So punishing Choya to dissuade others from doing it would be the correct action by Blizzard and GOM.
I'm not against this opinion.
But it is very hard to define what is legal or not here, I think. Every time I met my friend in the ladder, I was happy to quit the game to save some time since we wanted to play with unfamiliar players. Is it illegal? I played a thirty-minute game and was tired of it, so chose play a rock-paper-scissors duel with my opponent to end it. Is it illegal? Yes you can say Choya's action is illegal here. My point is that there is not a fine line.
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I don't think the reason GSL punished him is because they could theoretically use his ladder to qualify him for something.
That's missing the point.
I think it's more of a "you are playing in our league - play with integrity at all times because you're representing our brand".
The same thing happens in western professional sports, too, for stuff that happens off the court/field (e.g. NBA).
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On January 19 2011 12:24 applejuice wrote:
I don't think the reason GSL punished him is because they could theoretically use his ladder to qualify him for something.
That's missing the point.
I think it's more of a "you are playing in our league - play with integrity at all times because you're representing our brand".
The same thing happens in western professional sports, too, for stuff that happens off the court/field (e.g. NBA).
But I think they won't punish such behavior in a custom game, if it actually happens...
And I also think that it is reasonable, if not more reasonable, for them to punish pro players using abusive language in ladder games. Just a hypothesis.
But you are right. They have the right to do whatever they like within GSL.
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I don't know how I feel about this. If it was like choyafou being like Michael Vick and holding illegal animal betting matches, then I guess he should be DQed from future GSLs. However, in this case, he didn't force the opponent to play a RPS match with him, but rather, gave them the choice to.
There's the argument that GSL wants to hold up the integrity of the players... but he didn't maphack or anything.
If there were a Starcraft debate class, great subject to argue for and against on, lol.
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I'm honestly failing to derive any tangible consequence to any of this? Scandal? Jesus, it's like perezhilton.com for SC2.
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What the... Why would you do this if you're already a highly rated player so what's the ladder mean to you. :s Doesn't bother me in the slightest.
On January[/tlpd] 13 2011 17:29 IdrA wrote:
if he wants games decided by random chance he could just play the way he Always does
:D haha
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The reason choyafOu did this is because he sucks. No one respects his play style because he is 100% cheese. He knows he is bad so he feels like by climbing the ladder he is proving something... For anyone who thinks he is a legit player please go watch what he did to his teammate this year in the GSL... Code S Round of 16 Group B Match 4 Set 1.
He's trash and he ruins the GSL, and now the ladder too...
Here's the link for Code S Ro16 Group B Match 4 Set 1.
http://www.gomtv.net/2011gslsponsors1/vod/59686
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look at all of these noobs not grasping the concept that abuse is not tolerated. Noobs who do grasp it, I am not talking about you
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I don't really care whether Choya's punished for this. What saddens me is that people would rather play RPS than play SC2 for ladder points.
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On January 19 2011 11:57 palefountains wrote:Show nested quote +On January 19 2011 09:12 azr wrote:On January 18 2011 11:18 palefountains wrote:
It's the problem of the ladder mechanism, not the players. Ridiculous to punish choya...
That is the stupidest comment I have read in a long time. Why? If you're referring to the first paragraph, I'm not the first one saying that in this thread. If it is the second paragraph, better come up with a reason, or a better solution.
I think it is very saddening that so many share that view. Sure, Blizzard and their ladder system is far from perfect, but that doesn't justify abuse. The problem of ladder abuse exists because there are players willing to abuse it. The ladder system wasn't supposed to be used for games of RSP, so by using it as such players are creating a flaw in the system.
Of course, cheaters will always exist. But that doesn't mean we should approve of what they're doing...
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How would you even rock/paper/scissors on battle.net?
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EPT
