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On January 13 2011 19:24 byce wrote:
Is it bad that he did this, or is it bad that ladder rankings have anything to do with tournament seeding?
Yeh I thought it was rather strange, I thought (don't know why) that tournaments were all internal. Seems weird that ladder would come into it when it isn't really a great indicator other than how much you play, MMR (if it were viewable) would be ok though.
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On January 13 2011 19:25 Bliznako wrote:
Similar things happened in WoW when people were trying to up their ranking in the Arena or power level new teams. It isn't ethical and if need be, Blizzard will add new rules, however, you might just face a ban and be the scapegoat to warn other people from abusing it.
I think this pretty much sums up my opinion on the matter. They'll take action if they feel it's going to become a problem because they're concerned with the longevity of their games, not because it's moral/ethical to smash the banhammer on someone for doing something that's questionably illegal.
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On January 13 2011 17:29 IdrA wrote:
if he wants games decided by random chance he could just play the way he always does
This. Enough said about the player lol
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On January 13 2011 19:22 kirkybaby wrote:
With all due respect, that's a pretty big stretch. Additionally, that doesn't really validate what you were saying earlier, as this says that Blizzard has the right to ban you, not to DQ you from future sponsored events. Now, I understand this is the TOU for Battle.net but I just disagree with your underlying notion that ladder exploitation (which isn't even proven) is on par with something like maphacking, and that Blizzard should take action against him. They're well within their right to, but then again, they can ban you for absolutely nothing and be well within their rights too, see the first sentence of your C&P.
You just said you're approaching it from a legal perspective so I showed you that legally they can do whatever they want if they deem it outside of their view of fair play.
Abuse of Game Mechanics
The distinction between exploiting bugs and abusing game mechanics is a fine one. While bug exploitation involves the abuse of what is essentially a programming mistake, the abuse of game mechanics is the act of taking advantage of the limitations of the StarCraft II game systems. Since the line between the sanctioned use and the abuse of game mechanics is sometimes unclear, we prefer to educate players before taking any action against the account being used. This category includes using/distributing game mechanics in a manner unintended by their design that:
Damages another player's game, their gameplay, and/or the service itself
If a player is found to have abused/distributed such game mechanics, he/she may:
Be given a warning
Subsequent related offenses will result in temporary suspension from the game
http://us.blizzard.com/support/article.xml?locale=en_US&tag=SC2exploitation&rhtml=true
No matter how you approach this Blizzard can do whatever they want from a legal perspective as well as from a moral perspective. They may not, but they can if they want to. Anyway nothing surprising here a company as big as Blizzard isn't going to allow some loopholes that make it possible to do these things without them being able to do something about it. If they feel it's necessary they will do something, if they don't they won't.
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maybe Blizzard should not make such crappy ladder systems ...
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Account wipe of everyone that did this with warning seems like a just punishment.
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He was prolly drunk looking to have some fun and get a good laugh. made me crack up.
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I find it amazing that the ladder system actually can be subject to this kind of abuse in the first place.
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On January 13 2011 19:33 Zeon0 wrote:
maybe Blizzard should not make such crappy ladder systems ...
Yeah. As successful the Blizzard ladder is at what it does, as a matter of practicality I don't think they can ever guarantee its integrity. So it's disheartening both that they have such a monopoly on the ladder and that it's used to judge who can qualify for some tournaments.
I mean for the TSL ladder qualifiers, staff reviewed everything every player did to make sure nobody cheated their way into the tournament.
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On January 13 2011 19:30 Liquid`Nazgul wrote:
You just said you're approaching it from a legal perspective so I showed you that legally they can do whatever they want if they deem it outside of their view of fair play.
No matter how you approach this Blizzard can do whatever they want from a legal perspective as well as from a moral perspective. They may not, but they can if they want to. Anyway nothing surprising here a company as big as Blizzard isn't going to allow some loopholes that make it possible to do these things without them being able to do something about it. If they feel it's necessary they will do something, if they don't they won't.
I think we agree. Perhaps it's just how I worded my first post. The point here is that we agree Blizzard can do whatever they want to the account. We both think they may do something, or they may not. Good find BTW, it's nice having relevant legal information presented rather than hearsay. Cheers.
edit: double negatives.. ack.
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On January 13 2011 19:38 Mikilatov wrote:
I find it amazing that the ladder system actually can be subject to this kind of abuse in the first place.
AMM is a good system. In BW you only had ladders where you had to find your opponents yourself. Imagine how hard it was to moderate those 
I don't mind the system for SC2 nor do I have instant improvements in mind that could have avoided something as random as people asking their opponents to freeloss through rock paper scissors. Just seems something that is implied to happen even if you use the best ladder system on the planet. Ladders are not supposed to be perfect without human moderation so it's all about the moderation Blizzard puts on the ladder to spot these things.
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I remember in WC3's when pros that were close matched each other they each got a panda (skill with %to crit/miss) and duke it out in the middle just panda vs panda. Loser leaves.
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Kinda says something about Korean honor, I guess. Most players in NA, if they lose the RPS, they'd try to play the game out anyway and not honor the 'deal.'
This kinda thing also doesn't work unless both players agree, especially the losing player. That in itself is pretty hard.
Honestly, not a big deal. Most of the notable players out there winning tournaments hardly care about the ladder. ogsmc and nestea, for example, aren't #1, even though he could easily take it.
Nothing can really be done, except take away the player's freedom. They're free to surrender anytime they want.
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if thats sc2's biggest scandal then sc2 is pretty screwed;-)
(imho thats nothing to brag about. choYa showed what could happen before anybody in the position to abuse it could. i say: thanks choya!)
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On January 13 2011 19:43 Liquid`Nazgul wrote:Show nested quote +On January 13 2011 19:38 Mikilatov wrote:
I find it amazing that the ladder system actually can be subject to this kind of abuse in the first place. AMM is a good system. In BW you only had ladders where you had to find your opponents yourself. Imagine how hard it was to moderate those I don't mind the system for SC2 nor do I have instant improvements in mind that could have avoided something as random as people asking their opponents to freeloss through rock paper scissors. Just seems something that is implied to happen even if you use the best ladder system on the planet. Ladders are not supposed to be perfect without human moderation so it's all about the moderation Blizzard puts on the ladder to spot these things.
huh what about a simple elo system? wouldnt it be completely pointless to do rock/paper/scissors in one of those?
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Its funny that when you ask blizzard why they dont just display the MRR they state that the number doesnt change very much and would be uninteresting (isnt that the point? a number that shows how good you are that doesnt change unless you improve...)
this was in some secrets of the masters interviews or something like that
masters league makes all previous progress seem kinda absurd. its dumb that the moment theres a reset mmr stays so you get promoted after 1 placement match. thats completely pointless. its a ladder because you CLIMB...
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if opponent agrees, where is the problem????
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He just found a way for his points to converge and spend bonus pool faster. No unfair advantage IMO.
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choya is playing right now on code s. let's see if he asks his opponent to leave at any point during the game.
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I've seen cella do this a ton on his stream, the way I understood it he did it with other WeRRa members (back when werra existed) and it was just a harmless fun thing to do with mates...
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EPT
