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On December 11 2010 16:48 No_Roo wrote:
Wait, reserved spots for foreigners? That's nonsense, we don't need a handicap, our guys are kicking ass in the GSL, I feel a little insulted that they think we need a hand out...
I think a lot of it has to do with 1) getting foreigners involved, 2) the cost of the trip, food, lodging, all with the possibility of not qualifying (with the old system)
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So confusing, but hey, I get the part where players get to pick who they want to vs. I like that 
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I like the format so far, though the 4 foreigner spots I can`t say I agree with.
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I'm sorry, how do you achieve code A in the first place? The offline qualifying tournament, I guess?
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On December 12 2010 18:17 hemoptysis wrote:Show nested quote +On December 11 2010 16:48 No_Roo wrote:
Wait, reserved spots for foreigners? That's nonsense, we don't need a handicap, our guys are kicking ass in the GSL, I feel a little insulted that they think we need a hand out...
I think a lot of it has to do with 1) getting foreigners involved, 2) the cost of the trip, food, lodging, all with the possibility of not qualifying (with the old system)
as far as i understood, winners of 4 major tournaments in non korea have a reserved spot, so if some Korean would have won Dreamhack or what ever a "major tournament" is the spot would have been his?
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On December 12 2010 19:12 mango_destroyer wrote:
I like the format so far, though the 4 foreigner spots I can`t say I agree with. They're doing this not to belittle the skill of the foreign players. Only the top 16 of code A are safe in code A. The bottom 16 have to enter qualifiers just like the 3 GSLs we have seen. The difference will be that there will be only 16 spots for the main stage ( Code A tournament ) for grabs and it will be even more harder for newer foreigners to qualify. In the path to 64 you got only 5 foreigners so in a path to 16 ... you can understand the number of foreigners will decrease and the global starcraft league wont be that global. It's fair that it reserves 4 spots for the winners of foreign events if they choose to participate. This doesn't mean they will but it means they can. If they don't, those 4 reserved slots for the top foreigners become open together with the 12 slots for korean and foreigners alike thru the qualifications. And it's not like any foreigner that gets a slot reserved for the 16 new qualifications gets a free pass or anything. He has to win something like MLG or Dreamhack and that's not easy at all. And let's say those 4 spots were accepted by the designated foreigners, it doesn't mean no more foreigners are further allowed to qualify .. other foreigners still can compete for one of the remaining 12 spots in the code A tournament. For all we know, all those 12 slots can be foreigners if they beat out all the koreans who try to qualify as well.
I hope this explains a bit.
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On December 12 2010 20:16 Heimatloser wrote:Show nested quote +On December 12 2010 18:17 hemoptysis wrote:On December 11 2010 16:48 No_Roo wrote:
Wait, reserved spots for foreigners? That's nonsense, we don't need a handicap, our guys are kicking ass in the GSL, I feel a little insulted that they think we need a hand out...
I think a lot of it has to do with 1) getting foreigners involved, 2) the cost of the trip, food, lodging, all with the possibility of not qualifying (with the old system) as far as i understood, winners of 4 major tournaments in non korea have a reserved spot, so if some Korean would have won Dreamhack or what ever a "major tournament" is the spot would have been his? No it's purely for foreign players and they want one of those spots reserved for a skillful foreign player so they try to track the winner of a major foreign tournament where it is unlikely Koreans will participate. oGsTop and oGsInca participating in Dreamhack isn't something we see all the time. They just happened to not qualify for GSL and 2 foreigners were busy to participate in Dreamhack that it happened. Genius and Loner in Blizzcon is a showmatch where players are invited by Blizzard and doesn't really account for a major foreign tournament.
And again note : 4 spots of 16 to enter a new round of Code A tournament are reserved for foreigners which doesn't mean they will accept it due to many reasons and if they do, it doesn't mean they limited the number of foreigners to just 4 ... the remaining 12 slots are up for grabs for foreigner and korean alike thru a qualification in Korea.
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I'm so confused after reading that...........
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On December 12 2010 21:31 FlamingTurd wrote:
I'm so confused after reading that...........
I second that!
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Nice System, really horoughly thought through. I dont see players like nestea/fruitdealer not reach the RO8 because of some stupid all ins. The double group stage gives solid players an advantage. Also i like how code A and code S players have to fight for code S spots.
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nice system.. but foreigners should not be handed positions in the tournament.. it should be best of the best.. not best of the best plus 4 foreigners
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If you had basic reading comprehension capabilities you would know they are not being "handed out" positions. They've to win tournaments with tougher competition than your average code A qualifying bracket. Furthermore, if you looked at the structure or read the thread, you would realize qualifying for class A does not mean you are "best of the best" and it's going to get a few GSLs at least until tier B and C players are weeded out, due to variance.
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Though it looks complex, it's actually a very well thought out system. I honestly can't think of any way to improve it. In this system, we'll frequently see the old gosus play without them getting knocked out in qualifiers due to the latest cheese, and we'll see new rising talent. Much better then in KESPA by far.
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I like the "top four foreigner" rule.
It lets top players get into the tournament that didn't have a chance to spend 3 months in Korea trying to qualify for Code S/A.
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Looks pretty solid to me. Also, giving foreigners guaranteed spots is amazing, I'm really loving this. Not surprised some people disagree with this, but it'll really help keeping the scene big world wide. Not only will this help SC2's longevity, but also keeping the Korean and non-Korean scenes from separating.
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On December 12 2010 04:00 puzzl wrote:![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/Ev5Jc.jpg)
This is the best explanation of the system so far. I actually like the GSL system very much, and I think it's going to provide a lot of exciting starcraft. I especially like how the 3rd placed player in the group is given an advantage over the 4th placed player in the code-S determination matches.
The current system means at most 8 players will move up to Code S, which may be a little low for some ppl. For me, I would've preferred if 16 players were given the opportunity to move up. My preferred system would be to expand code-A to 64 players are then:
- 3rd place code-S vs top-8 code A -> Winner to code-S (1)
- Loser of (1) vs 4th place code-S vs top-16 code-A -> Winner to code-S
But this is no big deal for me, the current system is almost close to perfect.
Another thing that may happen is that the code-A tournament mirrors that of the code-S one. The players get split into 8 groups of 4 and play a round-robin. The top-2 then advances while the bottom 2 will lose the code-A.
I also like the 4 reserved foreigner spots. This is because it's very hard financially for a foreigner to come to korea to compete. I think it'll be a good idea if GOM announces which tournaments would give these reserved spots.
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I really like that they're going to use a group system, because it's by far the most accurate way of determining the "best" player. It's generally a brute force thing, since a group system has by far the most games played of any format (single or double elim, swiss, etc). Regardless, it's good to see something other than straight up single elimination, where a great player can get eliminated early on by some cheesy player or a few games on tilt.
*cough*FruitDealer vs. HongUnPrime*cough*
Anyway, it looks like I'll be shelling out more cash for Gom premium service. Hopefully they'll allow me access to both the group stage matches and the final single-elim bracket, but you don't always get what you wish for.
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On December 11 2010 15:19 avilo wrote:
No bo3 sounds pretty sucky. GL to players getting cheesed by nobodies.
There is no indication what BOx it will be, my guess is they want to show more games not less games, so they will most likely keep it BO3.
Also the foreigner spots are to bring more people to watch the English live stream, I am sure they liked the number jinro brought to them when he made it far, and they for sure see that even though were interested in the koreans as well we are more interested about foreigners, so to keep their .net site up and running with profit they are reserving spots.
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Bo1 is probably the best and realistic choice. Reason is simply because there is only 1 studio as far as we know and that is the current GSL studio which is airing the GSL Open seasons.
GSL with so many tournaments wants to be on schedule and having more games means more airing time but also means longer tournament which could delay the schedule that they've planned for 2011.
People need to realise there is also an A league which means even more matches. A tournament with just single elimination of 64 players was already a total of 63 matches.
The GSL S league has 2 group stages and then a single elimination tournament. That in itself will take quite some time to finish. And then the GSL has to wrap the A league too. Bo3 in group stages would simply be too much as it already is.
Unless the A league is not going to be covered by the GSL which I doubt then Bo3 could be set in the group stage. Imagine Tastosis covering the A league and S league. They'd be doing it non stop 10+ hours every day. Too much workload which I hope they don't get for their health.
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A tad complicated right now, but I'm sure people will get used to this format fairly easily. It's sort of a Champions League system with an added relegation system.
I also think 8 is a good number of spots up for grabs for A-class players... It should not only be tough to remain in S-class but also tough to move up; something like 16 spots available could make it too heavily relegated.
Only downside to this system is that it's going to be hella tough to see someone coming out of nowhere to triumph (i.e. Royal Road) on first try: Offline qualifiers, plus A-class tourney, plus relegation series, plus S-class tourney.... you know who the up and comers are after going through such a grueling process.
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EPT
