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ALLEYCAT BLUES50389 Posts
On December 02 2010 22:23 psion0011 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 02 2010 22:08 _Quasar_ wrote:
No, it doesn't show. They lie. Respect and lies aren't too compatible. =\ They lie or silence away the facts. I haven't seen any lies from them, just a whole lot of paranoia and and unfounded claims from the folks here so far. Good announcement, really proves they are good people, and it looks like blizz will crush KESPA with that kind of lawyering power behind them, and basically unlimited funds compared to, well, not much money at all.
yeah well I hope they put in some of that unlimited funds on the broadcasting casting companies for the "high level quality" that they are looking for.
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Russian Federation122 Posts
I really want Blizz to file an injunction so these headless fanboys will choke with a rage.
Quazar is really a great example of a fanboy - every post I see of him is filled with eternal blind HATE
User was warned for this post
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ALLEYCAT BLUES50389 Posts
On December 02 2010 22:27 Tirr wrote:
I really want Blizz to file an injunction so these headless fanboys will choke with a rage.
Quazar is really a great example of a fanboy - every post I see of him is filled with eternal blind HATE
to be honest even the "non headless fanboys" would rage if that happened.
Hell I would rage if that happened.
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some of the folks on this thread are behaving like children whos just had their lollipop stolen. they dont see why blizzard is doing this and just whines about how blizzard is a big bad wolf for stealing away their BW. blizzard made starcraft and it is their property. if u take someone elses property and use it to make a living, its only natural to give credit where its due. why are fanboys taking it so personally that blizz is just out to get BW. they are just protecting what is rightfully theirs. so stop whining and let things play out. i cant say for sure what blizzard truely intends for BW scene, but making unjustified statements like some ive seen in this thread is ridiculous.
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Russian Federation122 Posts
On December 02 2010 22:29 BLinD-RawR wrote:Show nested quote +On December 02 2010 22:27 Tirr wrote:
I really want Blizz to file an injunction so these headless fanboys will choke with a rage.
Quazar is really a great example of a fanboy - every post I see of him is filled with eternal blind HATE to be honest even the "non headless fanboys" would rage if that happened. Hell I would rage if that happened.
The rage can be different. This situation is not created by Blizzard alone, half of the fault (maybe even more) lies on Kespa. But all we get here - is non-argumental blizzard hate and appeals for boycotting any blizz products.
I personally want Kespa to fail, cause I don't want current situation to come to SC2 scene (I mean closed Korean scene with all major tournaments held only in Korea, with almost no foreigners, with slave B-teamers, with disqualifieing from tournaments for wrong spelling of "gg" and so on)
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"For last 3 years, Blizzard Korea has only earned 5% of overall worldwide sales"
whats the bet this is taking into account monthly subscription of wow users worldwide which makes sense korea is 5%.
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Russian Federation4405 Posts
It's not rage, but I'm kinda tired of endless repeating of statements no one, including ActiBlizz, gave a proper answer to. =\
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I completely back Sams for his statements.
IP rights have got to be recognized by KeSPA and OGN/MBC or they have to suffer for it. If the case goes KeSPA's way, the same thing might happen to StarCraft 2 or any other game out there.
Imagine the cost of StarCraft 2 being in development for 6-7 years only to some country say "hey, it's public proprety"
Thank's for the translation, this news is much bigger than NASA stuff trying to cover up Wikileaks :D
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Russian Federation4405 Posts
The problem is that SC1 being developed rather fast and without such amount of PR is better than this 6-7-year-in-development game, and no one touches this game. They only touch Starcraft Brood War. Sams just spoke some nice words as anyone expected, and anyone supposing that something changed after this is lying to himself.
Only new information that he told is about these 5%. And I've (and someone else) already explained why this is a number not to be trusted. I mean yes, it may be true! But they again, forget some facts that can't be counted by these methods, i.e. contribution of this running proscene to success of other Blizz's stuff.
I'm not backing Blizzard. They say right and nice things, but they do completely wrong actions. No matter how bad is KeSPA (and they, after all, shouldn't be drawing fire to them, that's dishonest too). Blizzard still tries to put bad actions into the sweet sauce.
If the matter was only to acknowledge the non-public property of Starcraft... But it is a lie. Let's wait for KeSPA, OGN, MBC not to be fools and to make some official statement about that they acknowledge IP rights of Blizzard, but ask for normal conditions for them, showing some respect to what they all have done to Blizzard's success. Which is, I again and again would repeat, far more than 5%.
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personally want Kespa to fail, cause I don't want current situation to come to SC2 scene (I mean closed Korean scene with all major tournaments held only in Korea, with almost no foreigners, with slave B-teamers, with disqualifieing from tournaments for wrong spelling of "gg" and so on)
Yeah, because it is Kespas fault, that no western company is interested in real Esports. Seriously, if Kespas fails that means with high probality the death of the BW scene. They have nothing to do with Sc2. In Sc2 it is all up to Blizzards hands. I loose something if Blizz wins, so i am against them. I can't understand why sc2 fanboys dont understand that simple logic. If BW dies now, it is all Blizzards fault. Because they are the reasons. Nobody forces them to sue OGN and MBC. They could really easily give the the Broadcasting right of BW to OGN and/or MBC. For me the only logical explanation is, they want the BW scene to die.
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The points where kespa has asked for 1.7 billion won for broadcasting "rights" in previous years are pretty crystal clear. Blizzard doesn't want people to just commercialize the broadcasting of starcraft matches without so much as a word in edgewise - that's way far beyond "fair use" of someone else's IP.
I find their reasoning behind NOT filing an injunction interesting - demonstrates patience in the proceedings, and a hope that negotiations will work, rather than clamoring for the lawsuit to settle things ASAP. Also probably a nod to the fans&players who still want their daily filling of e-sports.
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The 5% number, given that it includes all of their sales (not just BW in South Korea) is largely meaningless, when you consider the amount of money they make off WoW subs in North America and Europe (two enormous markets).
Essentially Blizzard can go both ways. They could possibly kill BW, which would make most of us rage hardcore. I think Blizzard is smart enough to try and avoid that actual outcome as much as possible. On the other hand, they could improve the scene, implementing some better regulations and standards than Kespa's sometimes questionable ones.
Leaving it as is currently works, but there's a reason Kespa has gotten a ton of flak over the years.
Do have to wonder, that if Blizzard wins how much impact the different flow of money will have. With a portion going to Blizzard (even if they're donating to charities), that's less for Kespa to (supposedly) reinvest right back into the scene.
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Why can't people understand that blizzard can't let this one slide. It would set a terrible precedent, meaning that all future IP (all future games) can be used by a 3rd party to make profit.
That being said, I don't think anyone can make a truly informed objective assessment of the current situation. All we have is what either side can (because of the NDA) and wants to tell us. Both obviously telling their highly subjected side of the story.
As for my personal view of the situation (as limited as it is), I didn't get into starcraft untill sc2 (I did play SC1 single player, but that's it). I think that anyone claiming blizzard does not have any rights to BW in proscene and the game itself is nothing more than a tool being used, is wrong. Blizzard has the IP and has the right to defend it. I think blizzard not filing for an injuction is a good thing for both blizzard and for starcraft (both 1 and 2). I hope they can get this sorted and both scenes are allowed to continue and both can be broadcasted.
As for those saying blizzard should let it go as their success is partially thanks to the success of BW, obviously blizzard benefitted from it. As to what extend is debatable and probably can not be determined to begin with. But even if Kespa is largely responsible for blizzard success, that doesn't mean Blizzard should just give up on defending their own property.
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I back Paul Sam's statement totally. I agree that you can "fudge" the numbers somewhat to make SK profits look like 5% or not, but it doesn't take a genius to realize that Blizzard is a global brand and one small country will not make up the bulk of its revenue. If SK ceased to exist, Blizzard wouldn't go into the tank or anything.
If Kespa hadn't tried to sublease the IP rights themselves, we wouldn't even be in this situation to begin with. Blizzard would have gone on and left the BW scene alone as they had done for 10 years. The IP rights issue is big because it affects all game companies everywhere. Not only that but probably all music and art and invention as well.
The money Blizzard is paying the law firm probably exceeds the broadcasting fee, although i doubt that will ever get published. That alone should be a sign Blizzard isn't there for the profits "now" but for all its future profits and brand globally.
the money they are asking for broadcasting fees is paltry in corporate terms. I don't understand the logic of people who think everything should be free. When you live in a real world with costs, you have to create your own value and pay accordingly. In fact, after the money they spent advertising SC2 in SK while not charging like the rest of the world, they are probably barely scraping even if not losing money in non-WoW endeavors.
Furthermore, they could be big jerks and have the BW leagues closed down immediately while they are in session. Even if the whole SK didn't play SC2 after that, I don't think it would make them rethink their stance. The success of esports in SK is more like a feather in the cap of Blizzard to show their strong brand globally, not necessarily to garner massive profit from said esports.
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Thanks for translating. Inteesting read.
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On December 02 2010 21:19 charlesatan wrote:Show nested quote +On December 02 2010 21:06 Frankon wrote:
In google case - their plan influences the sales of the books of the authors in the negative ways.On the other hand KeSPA/OGN/MBC have boosted Blizzard's SC:BW sales in korea. So its not like they didn't compensate. 1) Show some consistency. In the Google Case, one can make the argument that making the said books available for free and easily searchable on the Internet (i.e. the theory behind supporters of the Creative Commons License) will boost sales for the authors because it's making them visible. That's basically what you're implying with KeSPA/OGN/MBC and Broodwar. 2) However, whether KeSPA/OGN/MBC is indirectly compensating Blizzard or not is besides the point (contrary to what many posters here have mentioned, Blizzard's agenda isn't short-term profit [see my previous posts on this thread]). They're not respecting Blizzard's perceived IP Rights.
Ok so according to you i can play SC by watching it on TV??
Thats the difference between Google case and this one. You could read the damm book and than said. Ok i red it now i don't have to buy it from bookstore (keep in mind that some authors get a % of the total sale of books and thx to google it would decrase).
YOU CAN'T PLAY THE GAME BY WATCHING IT BEING PLAYED ON TV BY SOMEONE ELSE (talking about SC). YOU HAVE TO BUY IT (pirate it on ICC Cup or anything) TO BE ABLE TO PLAY. So basically if you liked what you saw you buy the game so you can play. In book case - > I red it. Ok time to look for some other book.
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On December 02 2010 15:30 infinitestory wrote:Show nested quote +On December 02 2010 15:27 CanucksJC wrote:
Reading the comments on the Fomos board, it seems like Blizzard hiring 'Kim & Chang' lawyer group is THE deciding factor of this whole thing. They're saying that Blizzard already had an upper hand, and them hiring the best lawyer group in the country just basically ended this whole thing. Legal advantages will likely pale in comparison to emotional advantages, which the broadcasting companies (but not KeSPA) command ;O
That didn't seem to help when Kespa stole Proleague.
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ALLEYCAT BLUES50389 Posts
On December 03 2010 00:38 DiamondTear wrote:Show nested quote +On December 02 2010 15:30 infinitestory wrote:On December 02 2010 15:27 CanucksJC wrote:
Reading the comments on the Fomos board, it seems like Blizzard hiring 'Kim & Chang' lawyer group is THE deciding factor of this whole thing. They're saying that Blizzard already had an upper hand, and them hiring the best lawyer group in the country just basically ended this whole thing. Legal advantages will likely pale in comparison to emotional advantages, which the broadcasting companies (but not KeSPA) command ;O That didn't seem to help when Kespa stole Proleague.
KeSPA stole proleague?I thought it was always theirs.....
please elaborate.
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On December 02 2010 14:08 OreoBoi wrote:
First thing he says is
While we see South Korea as an important market, the profits gained is not that big in comparison to overall earnings worldwide.
Then he says:
Blizzard does not see e-sports as a source of profits. The reason why we are in negotiations with game TV channels for licensing is to get our IP rights acknowledged, not to get profits."
I don't understand talking about profits and then saying you don't want profits.
First part was in response to some of the propaganda (likely spread around by KESPA) that stated that the south korean market represent 60% of sales of Starcraft. 5% might seem very low, but when you think of global sales of the game, even just those that bought the game for the single player or UMS maps, it's not that much of a stretch.
They might represent a good portion of recent sales, but that's not saying a whole lot for a decade old game.
The second part is fairly straight forward reiteration of their main point of contention in the negotiations.
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On December 02 2010 14:26 zenMaster wrote:
"5% of overall profit of all of Blizzard products over the recent 3 years." That is the way I see this propaganda.
Well obviously a 10 year old game doesn't sell that well any more, and 5% overall profit is fucking amazing considering the market size compared to the rest of the world.
Anybody with simple logic can see through this bullshit.
The 5% is what Blizzard Korea pulls in, that includes everything going on in Korea. The reason why it's so small is thanks to the enormity of World of Warcraft and its expansions in China, the US, and Europe. That accounts for well over half of Blizzard's profits (as of a year or two ago, I'll see if I can find a link if you're REALLY interested), and Starcraft is relatively minor since:
A) It's mostly played in PC Baangs over the free Battle.net, meaning Blizzard isn't getting anything from game sales at all.
B) They currently have 0 stake in any productions for SC1 thanks to KeSPA and the networks ignoring their IP rights, meaning the MSL, OSL, etc give them no revenue.
5% is still amazing for a country so small, but in reality, it's quite insignificant in comparison to other markets.
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EPT
