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Estonia4504 Posts
On December 03 2010 18:27 Ctoan wrote:Show nested quote +On December 03 2010 18:23 mustaju wrote:On December 03 2010 18:18 Ctoan wrote:
Alas,
Personally I haven't been following BW since the begining but if i where blizzard, and i had spent millions of dollars developing a game, then went on to other games and came back and saw that the game i had made years ago had grown and someone else was charging others for the right to watch that game, I'd be pist.
No-one is being charged to watch, only the 2 broadcasting channels have to pay fees to keep Proleague running. We've heard that misinformation countless times, please stop. Lol sry i meant to say broadcast, i guess ill edit my post, ty for picking 1 word out of the entire post to pick on <3 But kiiiiinda the sort of thing i was talking about....
It's actually a huge difference, since OGN and MBC are parts of KeSPA. This is what makes it a non-profit organization instead of a for-profit organization, hugely altering the stance of the law. Selling movies and showing them publically at your place is one example of this.
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On December 03 2010 18:34 mustaju wrote:Show nested quote +On December 03 2010 18:27 Ctoan wrote:On December 03 2010 18:23 mustaju wrote:On December 03 2010 18:18 Ctoan wrote:
Alas,
Personally I haven't been following BW since the begining but if i where blizzard, and i had spent millions of dollars developing a game, then went on to other games and came back and saw that the game i had made years ago had grown and someone else was charging others for the right to watch that game, I'd be pist.
No-one is being charged to watch, only the 2 broadcasting channels have to pay fees to keep Proleague running. We've heard that misinformation countless times, please stop. Lol sry i meant to say broadcast, i guess ill edit my post, ty for picking 1 word out of the entire post to pick on <3 But kiiiiinda the sort of thing i was talking about.... It's actually a huge difference, since OGN and MBC are parts of KeSPA. This is what makes it a non-profit organization instead of a for-profit organization, hugely altering the stance of the law. Selling movies and showing them publically at your place is one example of this.
One way to look at it is that each of the sponsors has fees. They pay for everything involving the teams (dorms, practice house, salaries, coaches, uniforms, equipment, travel, etc), and membership fees to KeSPA. Only 2 of these sponsors actually draw a revenue at all from this process (OGN and MBC, through selling commercials during events), and as a result have slightly higher fees to even it out. None of the other sponsors (like SKT, KT, Samsung, etc) recieve compensation for their investments as their businesses are not directly linked, but simply invest into e-Sports for the publicity and PR.
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On December 03 2010 18:34 mustaju wrote:Show nested quote +On December 03 2010 18:27 Ctoan wrote:On December 03 2010 18:23 mustaju wrote:On December 03 2010 18:18 Ctoan wrote:
Alas,
Personally I haven't been following BW since the begining but if i where blizzard, and i had spent millions of dollars developing a game, then went on to other games and came back and saw that the game i had made years ago had grown and someone else was charging others for the right to watch that game, I'd be pist.
No-one is being charged to watch, only the 2 broadcasting channels have to pay fees to keep Proleague running. We've heard that misinformation countless times, please stop. Lol sry i meant to say broadcast, i guess ill edit my post, ty for picking 1 word out of the entire post to pick on <3 But kiiiiinda the sort of thing i was talking about.... It's actually a huge difference, since OGN and MBC are parts of KeSPA. This is what makes it a non-profit organization instead of a for-profit organization, hugely altering the stance of the law. Selling movies and showing them publically at your place is one example of this.
Obviously not what i was talking about.
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Estonia4504 Posts
On December 03 2010 18:46 Ctoan wrote:Show nested quote +On December 03 2010 18:34 mustaju wrote:On December 03 2010 18:27 Ctoan wrote:On December 03 2010 18:23 mustaju wrote:On December 03 2010 18:18 Ctoan wrote:
Alas,
Personally I haven't been following BW since the begining but if i where blizzard, and i had spent millions of dollars developing a game, then went on to other games and came back and saw that the game i had made years ago had grown and someone else was charging others for the right to watch that game, I'd be pist.
No-one is being charged to watch, only the 2 broadcasting channels have to pay fees to keep Proleague running. We've heard that misinformation countless times, please stop. Lol sry i meant to say broadcast, i guess ill edit my post, ty for picking 1 word out of the entire post to pick on <3 But kiiiiinda the sort of thing i was talking about.... It's actually a huge difference, since OGN and MBC are parts of KeSPA. This is what makes it a non-profit organization instead of a for-profit organization, hugely altering the stance of the law. Selling movies and showing them publically at your place is one example of this. Obviously not what i was talking about.
I didn't reply to respond to your main argument, because I have seen that countless times and it's been answered countless times with wildly differing interpretations.
I replied because it is not a little thing to mix up and I'm sad to see so many people accusing KeSPA of being an organization that makes a boatload of money off someone else's product. Except for the promotion/PR/advertising spots, they don't. And whether or not they are allowed to do that, depends on the interpretation of the term "derivative rights."
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I didnt stipulate at the amount of money being made by kespa at all i was just saying that they are in fact charging others for a game that isnt theirs.
I wasn't even trying to say blizzard was all right in this situation just that people seem to be misconstruing and taking things out of context and picking every little thing apart and then giving my opinion that either way blizzards PR has their job cut out for them.
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Estonia4504 Posts
On December 03 2010 18:55 Ctoan wrote:
I didnt stipulate at the amount of money being made by kespa at all i was just saying that they are in fact charging others for a game that isnt theirs.
According to KeSPA, they pay for having KeSPA players and the tournament owners indirectly to have something to broadcast, not for the game itself. Another big difference in attitude between KeSPA and Blizzard supporters. KeSPA supporters argue that they have the right to do so, because they have the contracts with the players and because they created the tournament itself. Blizzard supporters stress the importance of the tool, the game.
I'd say that is not as clear cut at all.
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On December 03 2010 18:55 Ctoan wrote:
I didnt stipulate at the amount of money being made by kespa at all i was just saying that they are in fact charging others for a game that isnt theirs.
They are not charging for the game, and they are not claiming to own the game. The leagues are running using KeSPA-signed players and staff, and KeSPA is getting some compensation for that (like an additional membership fee for the two broadcasters, as they draw a revenue unlike the others as I mentioned above). To my knowledge, KeSPA does not charge OGN and MBC fees for their other BW shows (ladder/UMS) like Shinae's show, or the various others. The fee is not for BW, but for running a league using their players and staff.
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Lol look at them bending numbers..
5% sales in the last 3 years..
What game did they release in the last 3 years? Practically none outside of WoW (constant source of income)..
I believe the issue in question would be how much revenue of Starcraft is from Korea. And it obviously isnt a measly 5%..
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On December 03 2010 19:02 mustaju wrote:Show nested quote +On December 03 2010 18:55 Ctoan wrote:
I didnt stipulate at the amount of money being made by kespa at all i was just saying that they are in fact charging others for a game that isnt theirs. According to KeSPA, they pay for having KeSPA players and the tournament owners indirectly to have something to broadcast, not for the game itself. Another big difference in attitude between KeSPA and Blizzard supporters. KeSPA supporters argue that they have the right to do so, because they have the contracts with the players and because they created the tournament itself. Blizzard supporters stress the importance of the tool, the game. I'd say that is not as clear cut at all.
Clear cut? Remove SCBW. What do you have? You're going to say, but what if they remove the players and the structure of KESPA.
KESPA needs SCBW to continue exsisting. SCBW doesnt need KESPA to be a game.
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Estonia4504 Posts
On December 03 2010 19:07 Ctoan wrote:Show nested quote +On December 03 2010 19:02 mustaju wrote:On December 03 2010 18:55 Ctoan wrote:
I didnt stipulate at the amount of money being made by kespa at all i was just saying that they are in fact charging others for a game that isnt theirs. According to KeSPA, they pay for having KeSPA players and the tournament owners indirectly to have something to broadcast, not for the game itself. Another big difference in attitude between KeSPA and Blizzard supporters. KeSPA supporters argue that they have the right to do so, because they have the contracts with the players and because they created the tournament itself. Blizzard supporters stress the importance of the tool, the game. I'd say that is not as clear cut at all. Clear cut? Remove SCBW. What do you have? You're going to say, but what if they remove the players and the structure of KESPA. KESPA needs SCBW to continue exsisting. SCBW doesnt need KESPA to be a game.
Side-note: KeSPA does have other games, actually. Admittedly, BW is the most important one, but it could still survive the fall of BW.
Sure, KeSPA couldn't do anything with the players and the tournament itself without the tool, the game. But the question is, did they do anything illegal with the tool? And if so, what should the repercussions be? How much of their usage of the game can be attributed to derivative rights, and how much is misuse of copyrighted material?
And perhaps most importantly, what does this bode for the fans of that game?
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Blah, im just trying to say that the arguements go either way and you can see both their points. Overall i would be more offended in the seat of Blizzard, if KESPA had been a little more tactful they couldve avoided this endgame but we are where we are. Can easily say KESPA is where they are by their own choosing where as Blizzard has come to this point by their negligence.
Overall i hope for the the best but as i was saying, this is going to be intrepreted either way by peoples bias.
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Estonia4504 Posts
On December 03 2010 19:32 Ctoan wrote:
Blah, im just trying to say that the arguements go either way and you can see both their points. Overall i would be more offended in the seat of Blizzard, if KESPA had been a little more tactful they couldve avoided this endgame but we are where we are. Can easily say KESPA is where they are by their own choosing where as Blizzard has come to this point by their negligence.
Overall i hope for the the best but as i was saying, this is going to be intrepreted either way by peoples bias.
While I'm biased as a BW fanatic, I can see Blizzards supporters points, and I'm more accepting of Blizzard than before. I think we're in the same boat. Let's hope for the best!
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Well the conclusion that i got from this article is that Blizzard is trying to nulify the possible back up that the government in Korea could do in support of the broadcasters and Kespa, first saying that Korea isnt now in the list of "ip" violation countries (he is implying some change there if they dont win the lawsuit) and secondly hiring the most important law firm (big law firms have big contacts in the goverment), the other things are only PR sentences trying to justify its actions if something happens to the SC:BW scene.
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guys
i'm really stupid when it comes to laws, rights and what not
i read the whole OP and some of the comments
but I still couldnt figure out what does blizzard really want.
this "acknowledgment", what does it consist of?
they want a bite of the profits? rofl
I ask this coz I know that one of the reasons HD and Husky are postponing their torney is related to "blizzard approval" or something.. seriously, are they THAT insecure about their product? wanna centralize even small tournaments? that's BS imo
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On December 03 2010 19:05 ffreakk wrote:
Lol look at them bending numbers..
5% sales in the last 3 years..
What game did they release in the last 3 years? Practically none outside of WoW (constant source of income)..
I believe the issue in question would be how much revenue of Starcraft is from Korea. And it obviously isnt a measly 5%..
The point was to show that Blizzard does not need Kespa as much as Kespa likes to think.
A million sales in Korea generates far less revenue to Blizzard than a million sales in USA or euro.
Elements from Licensing model, to price of product, makes a huge difference in terms of revenue. Not to mention the WOW Cash cow .
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I would love to see that article Sam speaks of. I would be surprised if the author didn't mean 60% of Starcraft/Brood War sales because that's the only correlation you could make regarding KeSPA and Starcraft.
One thing's for sure. There is a lot of spin-doctoring going around.
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On December 04 2010 05:01 battarro wrote:Show nested quote +On December 03 2010 19:05 ffreakk wrote:
Lol look at them bending numbers..
5% sales in the last 3 years..
What game did they release in the last 3 years? Practically none outside of WoW (constant source of income)..
I believe the issue in question would be how much revenue of Starcraft is from Korea. And it obviously isnt a measly 5%.. The point was to show that Blizzard does not need Kespa as much as Kespa likes to think. A million sales in Korea generates far less revenue to Blizzard than a million sales in USA or euro. Elements from Licensing model, to price of product, makes a huge difference in terms of revenue. Not to mention the WOW Cash cow .
No Blizzard doesnt need Kespa, in fact they would prefer it if Kespa disappears (at least thats how i read it).. But Blizz wants to establish themselves in Korea.
And im merely pointing out that Paul were using their profit "in the last 3 years" to play down Korea as a revenue source. Since SC2 is only released a few months back, the rest of "last 3 years" were WoW and only WoW. I think we all agree that E-Sport in Korea is famous for supporting Starcraft, and not WoW, so of course they werent a big part of Blizz's "last 3 years profit".
Im also ignoring the parts where they blatantly lied about charging the Broadcasting Stations only 20% of what Kespa does, since by this point probably nobody enjoy shitfests and flame wars anymore.
Peace out.
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Continued, he stated, "Blizzard has invested massive amount of money to develop StarCraft. Trying to set it apart into a public property is completely destroying the IP rights of the developer, and it will certainly reduce amount of investments for further creative game developments."
Yes please do this so I never play one of your games again. Idiots
I love how they try to do this to say ''if what we want doesn't happen, then we will make shitty games'' thinking that their games are the only games in the world
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In a nutshell: We don't need Korean esports money because we're trillionares from WoW already, but we're gonna demand it anyways.
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Lol this is ridiculous.
Of course that Blizzard Korea only gives 5$ of BLIZZARD GLOBAL PROFIT.
Blizzard isn't only SC2 and their main income is from WoW and probably China might be the biggest country that contributes to the global profit and I'm mega super duper sure that WoW is the game, inside Blizzards, that provides the most part othe globa income of blizzard.
What I want to know is how much was the income produced in Korea thanks to the selling of starcraft 1 + starcraft:bw + Starcraft 2:WoL, compared to the same games in the rest of the world.
Blizzard really mess it up sometimes.
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EPT
