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On November 07 2010 14:13 scion wrote:
Unfortunately(or fortunately) this will likely come out on Blizzard's favour.
Korea has good copyright laws regarding original developers due to K-pop culture being so wide spread in east Asia. If they actually battle it out in court, it is highly likely that Blizzard will get better deal out of this.
KeSPA will probably have the Ministry of Culture, Sports, and Tourism on their side, however.
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On November 07 2010 12:00 TMTurtle wrote:Show nested quote +On November 07 2010 10:36 SwiftSpear wrote:
The latest in a long line of blizzard ripping apart anyone who wants to profit off of stuff that belongs to them. Blizzard makes great games, but they protect their properties. Just ask the modding community how ethically wonderful Blizzard is. Yes, it is Blizzard being unethical, not the people profiting off of stuff that doesn't belong to them.
Mmm, I was aiming for the word "morally"
Modders generally don't make profit, aside from the profit of gaining fans, and working with gaming technologies.
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On November 07 2010 15:38 SwiftSpear wrote:Show nested quote +On November 07 2010 12:00 TMTurtle wrote:On November 07 2010 10:36 SwiftSpear wrote:
The latest in a long line of blizzard ripping apart anyone who wants to profit off of stuff that belongs to them. Blizzard makes great games, but they protect their properties. Just ask the modding community how ethically wonderful Blizzard is. Yes, it is Blizzard being unethical, not the people profiting off of stuff that doesn't belong to them. Mmm, I was aiming for the word "morally" Modders generally don't make profit, aside from the profit of gaining fans, and working with gaming technologies.
Then your post doesnt really make sense o.O
"The latest in a long line of blizzard ripping apart anyone who wants to profit off of stuff that belongs to them. Blizzard makes great games, but they protect their properties. Just ask the modding community how ethically wonderful Blizzard is."
Also, which modders have had issues with blizzard? I mean... D2 has tons and tons of mods out for it.
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On November 07 2010 04:21 rasers wrote:Show nested quote +On November 07 2010 00:59 AyJay wrote:On November 07 2010 00:38 palexhur wrote:On November 06 2010 13:34 TheRabidDeer wrote:On November 06 2010 09:41 StarStruck wrote:On November 05 2010 16:07 TheRabidDeer wrote:
According to the numbers available, SC2 has already reached and/or surpassed BW popularity. I wont say its a better game, because that is opinion... but in terms of viewership, it is already quite popular. How about we leave such comments for let's say another ten years? There is no point comparing the two based on sales alone. I'm sorry, but it just doesn't work that way. That comment wasnt based on sales, it was based on the number of views for GSL vs the finals between jaedong/flash. Looking purely at sales, then BW is way ahead of SC2 (but this is also because BW has obviously been out for 12 years). I dont even know how you can infer that conclusion about SC2 reached or surpassed BW popularity when the main way of broadcasting of OGN and MBC are different than GOM, please go and see the TV ratings of that event and then you can conclude something, sorry but It is comparing apples with oranges, if the final of the GSL has less viewers than Boxer vs Nestea or Boxer vs Nada, then you can conclude that it is not even about SC2 but a phenomenom named Boxer. Lets wait and see. GSL1 finals vod has 1.9 Million views. Koreans are interested in Sc2 1.9 million only koreans? 
Only koreans, foreigners have seperate website.
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Russian Federation4405 Posts
On November 07 2010 11:44 Zonel wrote:Show nested quote +On November 07 2010 05:11 _Quasar_ wrote:
lol. didn't read, don't care about sc2. give me more proleague and finally, JvF pls. You should care. You will realize later on why.
I meant I care, but I'm freaking tired of it. I've already understood who acti-blizz are (i don't want to swear so i'll don't repeat who). So I'm just playing and watching SC nd that's all.
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On November 07 2010 14:40 HunterX11 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 07 2010 14:13 scion wrote:
Unfortunately(or fortunately) this will likely come out on Blizzard's favour.
Korea has good copyright laws regarding original developers due to K-pop culture being so wide spread in east Asia. If they actually battle it out in court, it is highly likely that Blizzard will get better deal out of this.
KeSPA will probably have the Ministry of Culture, Sports, and Tourism on their side, however.
What? what makes you say that? You can't just make unsupported claim on how the government would help KeSPA. KeSPA is NOT involved with government body in any shape or form.
I can just claim nonsenses too. What if record label/tv stations/movie industry got involved because the case might set a bad precedent in ip right issues?
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Oh? You may want to check out Kespa relationship with Ministry of Culture. E-sport is Korean's culture, mind..
And even apart from that.. If you think that big firms and governments have nothing to do with each other, you are already wrong.
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Russian Federation4405 Posts
I just hope that they (ministry) support this gaming culture, that is by all means theirs, not Blizzards, and if Blizzard's partially, then BY NO MEANS Activision's at all.
Yes, KeSPA may be bad and stupid (although i think their 3 latest conroversal decisions - in JvF MSL power outage, in BackHo's pause-then-"ppp", and in Flash's-opponent-not-appaering-on-map --- were right). But Blizzard is acting simply dishonestly to the culture that gave them VERY much. Starcraft 2 could be such many-selling and -watched only by means of this culture. So, they owe them at least 45% SC2 sales, and as I've already pointed, also the large part of popularity that WC3 gained, and from WC3, lets not forget, followed World of Warcraft.
You finally get paid for that by getting the same from some other side. That's the true law of life, not the artificial "laws of business" that regard only money and consuming, nothing else.
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ALLEYCAT BLUES51084 Posts
On November 07 2010 18:04 ffreakk wrote:
Oh? You may want to check out Kespa relationship with Ministry of Culture. E-sport is Korean's culture, mind..
And even apart from that.. If you think that big firms and governments have nothing to do with each other, you are already wrong.
hmmm....I don't know how great the relationship between them is other than the fact that they approved them as korea's official E-sports association.
KeSPA was founded in 2000 after the approval of the Ministry of Culture, Sports and Tourism. Its official goal is to make e-Sports an official sporting event, and to solidify the commercial position of e-Sports in all sectors. The organization manages the broadcasting of e-Sports, the formation of new events, and the conditions in which progamers work, as well as encourage the playing of video games by the general population.
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=135344
this might also be interesting.
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I've been thinking about this for a while and I have realized what it is that pisses me off the most about this.
If it were an issue of protecting their rights, Blizzard would be fine if everything could me measured monetarily. The thing is there's an undefinable quantity at stake. StarCraft 2 wouldn't be a big deal if it weren't for esports. Esports wouldn't be the way it was without OGN and MBC. These are companies that have increased the sales of SC2 indirectly, but I would guess a great deal. This attack by Blizzard feels as though its against some of its closest allies. I think this is what makes it so distasteful, dishonorable, disgusting, or whatever other diss you prefer.
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Russian Federation4405 Posts
Yes. That's also what I'm thinking.
sc2 DOES matter as a content of ActiBlizz's success, and its popularity is almost fully contributed to Korea.
If they attacked some other community, that helped them in something else than SC, but in order to promote SC2, it would be bad, but understandable. And there could be arguing about how much that imaginary company contributed to whole Blizz's success - maybe they don't need that "branch" of success. But they show now to us that SC2 does matter. And attacking someone who gave them the popularity of SC2 is just plainly an action full of shit.
And everyone who plays Blizzard games should now understand it.
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On November 07 2010 18:10 _Quasar_ wrote:
I just hope that they (ministry) support this gaming culture, that is by all means theirs, not Blizzards, and if Blizzard's partially, then BY NO MEANS Activision's at all.
Yes, KeSPA may be bad and stupid (although i think their 3 latest conroversal decisions - in JvF MSL power outage, in BackHo's pause-then-"ppp", and in Flash's-opponent-not-appaering-on-map --- were right). But Blizzard is acting simply dishonestly to the culture that gave them VERY much. Starcraft 2 could be such many-selling and -watched only by means of this culture. So, they owe them at least 45% SC2 sales, and as I've already pointed, also the large part of popularity that WC3 gained, and from WC3, lets not forget, followed World of Warcraft.
You finally get paid for that by getting the same from some other side. That's the true law of life, not the artificial "laws of business" that regard only money and consuming, nothing else.
Why do you keep posting bullshit. First you say Koreans have no idea what they talking about now this?
First of all, you talk like Blizzard did nothing for gaming culture. They are game developers, they made SC1 which instantly became hit in Korea. And because the game was so popular it started appearing on korean television. And because it started appearing on korean television great players came along (Boxer, grrr, Nada), great teams were formed and they were sponsored by various companies. Then later in 2003 these teams and sponsors decided to create this KeSPA organization. Blizzard is THE reason starcraft is popular - because they made it. Koreans realize that, but at the same time they hate Blizzard for suing broadcasting companies which results in "Fuck KeSPA" and "I don't like what Blizzard is doing".
How can you say Blizzard is dishonest? They made the game, it's their IP. It was KeSPA who said "we have players therefore broadcasting rights belong to us and starcraft doesn't belong to blizzard because it became a culture in Korea". Now my opinion may be different from people in this forum, but I think that is complete bullshit.
Do you realize that KeSPA has absolutely no intention of supporting it? Where do you get that KeSPA was the reason of WC3 popularity? And last time I checked nobody is playing World of Warcraft in Korea.
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The impression I'm getting from most of the people in this thread is that Blizzard isnt allowed to protect their intellectual property...
If you invested millions of dollars into developing something, and release it, would you be okay with third party companies profiting off of your work, without your consent and/or without recieving a cut of the profits? No, you wouldn't. I don't care how much money you have in the bank, you would protect the rights to the property you have created. If you don't, well, you won't be in business for long.
You guys act like Blizzard is doing some bastardly sin, but what you're forgetting is that precidents need to be set. If one company can continously disobey Blizzards legal rights, it allows more to follow suit. Once this happens, where does it stop?
Sorry guys, but this is the way the world works, get used to it.
Do you think that TV broadcasting companies just show up to sports arenas with cameras, and film and broadcast the games live, generate millions of dollars in advertising, and then just pocket everything they make? No. They pay for the rights to broadcast. Does this destroy a sporting community? No, it allows the distribution of profits between the people working to broadcast the sport, and the people who actually invest and maintain said sports league.
Nothing in this world is free. I'm sure that I am just preaching to deaf ears for the most part though.
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ALLEYCAT BLUES51084 Posts
the only reason this is going so far is because both sides are looking for a situation that benefits their side and their side alone.
@Quasar:Stop making KeSPA look like victims here,if anyone's a victim its the us(the viewers) and the the players.
@AyJay:Blizzard is not the reason SC is popular...They only made the game,Korea contributed to their popularity on their own.KeSPA only stabilized that popularity.
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On November 07 2010 22:08 BLinD-RawR wrote:
Blizzard is not the reason SC is popular...They only made the game,Korea contributed to their popularity on their own.KeSPA only stabilized that popularity.
Right, so by your logic, Nirvana was not the reason Nirvana was popular... They only made the music, America contributed to their popularity on their own. MTV only stabilized that popularity.
Sooo.. MTV just profits off of Nirvana (Or insert any other band) because they created the culture, therefore they profit as much as they possibly can off of it without paying the respective bands and production/distribution companies.
Makes perfect sense to me.
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On November 07 2010 22:08 BLinD-RawR wrote:
the only reason this is going so far is because both sides are looking for a situation that benefits their side and their side alone.
@Quasar:Stop making KeSPA look like victims here,if anyone's a victim its the us(the viewers) and the the players.
@AyJay:Blizzard is not the reason SC is popular...They only made the game,Korea contributed to their popularity on their own.KeSPA only stabilized that popularity.
No. PcBangs and bnet is the reason SC was popular, Boxer is the reason E-sports was popular.
KeSPA was created in 2003, the game had sold millions of copies already until then. Yeah they did contribute, but not as much as you think.
I agree that fans are suffering because of what Blizzard is doing, but saying that what they do is unreasonable is stupid.
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ALLEYCAT BLUES51084 Posts
On November 07 2010 22:13 Dantelew wrote:Show nested quote +On November 07 2010 22:08 BLinD-RawR wrote:
Blizzard is not the reason SC is popular...They only made the game,Korea contributed to their popularity on their own.KeSPA only stabilized that popularity. Right, so by your logic, Nirvana was not the reason Nirvana was popular... They only made the music, America contributed to their popularity on their own. MTV only stabilized that popularity. Sooo.. MTV just profits off of Nirvana (Or insert any other band) because they created the culture, therefore they profit as much as they possibly can off of it without paying the respective bands and production/distribution companies. Makes perfect sense to me.
I'm not arguing logic here...what I've quoted is a fact which people miss.
@AyJay: we both are arguing the same thing...
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There are a few points that have to be answered.
1. On what legal ground does KeSPA have the right to demand money from broadcasting companies from broadcasting Starcraft tournaments.
2. KeSPA claims Starcraft is public property so Blizzard doesn't have full rights to claim it as their own. On what basis does KeSPA have the right to call Starcraft public property, and if it is, how come they are demanding money from broadcasting companies to broadcast it in Korea?
3. Blizzard/Gretech seems to want to negotiate with OGN and MBC separately from KeSPA, as OGN succeeded in acquiring a sub-license from Gretech to finish broadcasting the Korean Air 2 OSL. However, KeSPA has control of the teams and players. If OGN and MBC would rather reinvest their own money into their own leagues and new licenses from Gretech. would KeSPA pull the teams and players out OSL and MSL?
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On November 07 2010 23:51 Pleiades wrote:
There are a few points that have to be answered.
1. On what legal ground does KeSPA have the right to demand money from broadcasting companies from broadcasting Starcraft tournaments.
KeSPA said they think that broadcasting rights belong to them, because teams and players belong to them.
On November 07 2010 23:51 Pleiades wrote:
2. KeSPA claims Starcraft is public property so Blizzard doesn't have full rights to claim it as their own. On what basis does KeSPA have the right to call Starcraft public property, and if it is, how come they are demanding money from broadcasting companies to broadcast it in Korea?
KeSPA says that starcraft became sport/culture just like basketball/football, therefore Blizzard shouldn't say starcraft belongs to them. (Which in my opinion is complete bullshit)
On November 07 2010 23:51 Pleiades wrote:
3. Blizzard/Gretech seems to want to negotiate with OGN and MBC separately from KeSPA, as OGN succeeded in acquiring a sub-license from Gretech to finish broadcasting the Korean Air 2 OSL. However, KeSPA has control of the teams and players. If OGN and MBC would rather reinvest their own money into their own leagues and new licenses from Gretech. would KeSPA pull the teams and players out OSL and MSL?
I don't know, but I can say that even if they don't have broadcasting rights the organizations behind KeSPA (teams and sponsors) will still make money, so pulling players out of OSL and MSL would be idiotic move.
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Russian Federation4405 Posts
Please stop posting things like "do you say Blizz can't protect their intellectual property" and such things that are merely words. Yes they do can, but what part of SC popularity is really theirs? And do they not owe to Koreans their SC's popularity (that triggered VERY much of their games - WC3, SC2 and indirectly WoW)?
Without Koreans that would be merely good selling game, but not a long-runner, not for 12 mother freaking years. And therefore wouldn't allow Blizz to make money so much.
I mean, SC is good itself, but koreans contributed to it its popularity. And gaming culture was made by themselves, it's not Blizzard who did it. It was not "predestined" that they would do it - so its not Blizzard's action, it's theirs. And e-sports wasn't recognized as sports! Boxer and company had to fight their way through to prove that this IS true sports.
I just realised that I'm quoting BLiND-RawR without having read his post. :D Oops.
I don't mean Kespa is victim. I mean koreans are, and the best players especially. Who wouldn't like to see the predictable return of Bisu? To send zerg vs. him now seems like suicide. And his PvT looks suddenly decent too. Why not come back?
Yes, game is good, but to build gaming culture with a game that IS huge effort. And, to say honestly, not giving much direct and instant payback! Would Blizzard risk to do so? No, I think no. And koreans did.
And again: Blizzard does not request payment for SC. They try to replace it with a worse game that is SC2. And it won't last for long or bring legendary players - cos it's all only about money.
This is all bullshit ritorics. You all know that no one, including ActiBlizzard themselves (read several pages earlier) obey law to its fullest. Because law only says that persons CAN be sued for what they do. To sue them or not is an action of a man. Blizzard decided to do so, and I bet they shouldn't, because they do owe to Korea popularity and money. You say, that for what they do (broadcast games without license but drawing HUGE attention to it) they haven't already paid Blizzard to its fullest?! They have brought Blizzard tons of money for Starcraft 2 - more than anything else country. Their efforts of supporting it for TOO long - not Blizzard's - and the players' efforts too, to establish it - that's what earned Blizzard the money they now have for SC2 that is arguably balanced, arguably good, etc.
Blizzard themselves just wouldn't support that. If they could, why didn't they? They were greedy to invest money in it or what?!
Now let's them not say that they are the reason to such a long living of SC. They aren't. They could be because the game is truly good. But they didn't.
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EPT
