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On November 06 2010 01:44 darmousseh wrote:
Blizzard will win obviously, they not only have the legal right to protect their IP, but they have international law at their side. Also sometimes a company can claim that the licencing was outrageous, however, ogn already obtained rights previously, but chose not to renew them. Gretech will easily win this. As far as the future of OSL, what i predict is that the court will issue and injunction to stop the league, ogn will meet with gretech the next day and an arrangement will be met swiftly and then the court case will be abandoned.
Anytime someone posts like this it makes my eyes roll. Sadly this won't change.
I will leave it at this: there is a lot more to it than just Blizzard trying to protect their IP rights. -_-
As for my earlier statements. I thought you guys were talking about Blizzard as a whole. If your previous comments were only in relation to e-sports then, yeah I agree.
Without KeSPA and people like Rose.of.Dream. e-Sports wouldn't be where it is today. :/
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On November 05 2010 16:07 TheRabidDeer wrote:
According to the numbers available, SC2 has already reached and/or surpassed BW popularity. I wont say its a better game, because that is opinion... but in terms of viewership, it is already quite popular.
How about we leave such comments for let's say another ten years? There is no point comparing the two based on sales alone. I'm sorry, but it just doesn't work that way.
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I read the article on Fomos (known to be slightly biased, pro-Blizzard), there was like literally several hundreds of replies, mostly written in e-slang with cleverly disguised derogatory terms... but it roughly looks like (and percentages don't add up because some people have multiple opinions):
25%: good let's hope SC1 dies so we can watch SC2 in peace
25%: fuck off Blizzard let us play whatever game we want
30%: GOM is just as bad as Kespa I hope both of you die
50%: Blizzard's going to win this, Kespa so stupid
95%: No matter who wins, fuck you Kespa
Basically, almost everyone wants Kespa dead. No question about it. Most Korean netizens seem to be agreeing in the one argument that Kespa is the root cause of this dispute (which is true IMO). I'm pretty sure Korean netizens also watch a whole bunch of other e-sports (non-SCBW) so they don't hate the broadcasting companies (OGN and MBC) so much. No matter how greedy Blizzard is or how GOM is betraying the country, FUCK YOU KESPA.
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ALLEYCAT BLUES50861 Posts
On November 06 2010 09:43 OpticalShot wrote:
I read the article on Fomos (known to be slightly biased, pro-Blizzard), there was like literally several hundreds of replies, mostly written in e-slang with cleverly disguised derogatory terms... but it roughly looks like (and percentages don't add up because some people have multiple opinions):
25%: good let's hope SC1 dies so we can watch SC2 in peace
25%: fuck off Blizzard let us play whatever game we want
30%: GOM is just as bad as Kespa I hope both of you die
50%: Blizzard's going to win this, Kespa so stupid
95%: No matter who wins, fuck you Kespa
Basically, almost everyone wants Kespa dead. No question about it. Most Korean netizens seem to be agreeing in the one argument that Kespa is the root cause of this dispute (which is true IMO). I'm pretty sure Korean netizens also watch a whole bunch of other e-sports (non-SCBW) so they don't hate the broadcasting companies (OGN and MBC) so much. No matter how greedy Blizzard is or how GOM is betraying the country, FUCK YOU KESPA.
we'll try looking for a poll on Daily E-sports(supposed to be Pro-KeSPA I believe)...if its the same then korean netizens really don't like KeSPA....
I wonder,is it blind rage or that they know better.
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On November 06 2010 09:41 StarStruck wrote:Show nested quote +On November 05 2010 16:07 TheRabidDeer wrote:
According to the numbers available, SC2 has already reached and/or surpassed BW popularity. I wont say its a better game, because that is opinion... but in terms of viewership, it is already quite popular. How about we leave such comments for let's say another ten years? There is no point comparing the two based on sales alone. I'm sorry, but it just doesn't work that way.
That comment wasnt based on sales, it was based on the number of views for GSL vs the finals between jaedong/flash. Looking purely at sales, then BW is way ahead of SC2 (but this is also because BW has obviously been out for 12 years).
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On November 06 2010 13:34 TheRabidDeer wrote:Show nested quote +On November 06 2010 09:41 StarStruck wrote:On November 05 2010 16:07 TheRabidDeer wrote:
According to the numbers available, SC2 has already reached and/or surpassed BW popularity. I wont say its a better game, because that is opinion... but in terms of viewership, it is already quite popular. How about we leave such comments for let's say another ten years? There is no point comparing the two based on sales alone. I'm sorry, but it just doesn't work that way. That comment wasnt based on sales, it was based on the number of views for GSL vs the finals between jaedong/flash. Looking purely at sales, then BW is way ahead of SC2 (but this is also because BW has obviously been out for 12 years).
I find that quite difficult to believe. GSL > OSL in viewers?
IIRC GSL isn't even on television, how can it possibly have more viewers than the OSL Finals which was in China? I'm not having a go at you but where are you getting your numbers?
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On November 06 2010 16:42 ShadeR wrote:Show nested quote +On November 06 2010 13:34 TheRabidDeer wrote:On November 06 2010 09:41 StarStruck wrote:On November 05 2010 16:07 TheRabidDeer wrote:
According to the numbers available, SC2 has already reached and/or surpassed BW popularity. I wont say its a better game, because that is opinion... but in terms of viewership, it is already quite popular. How about we leave such comments for let's say another ten years? There is no point comparing the two based on sales alone. I'm sorry, but it just doesn't work that way. That comment wasnt based on sales, it was based on the number of views for GSL vs the finals between jaedong/flash. Looking purely at sales, then BW is way ahead of SC2 (but this is also because BW has obviously been out for 12 years). I find that quite difficult to believe. GSL > OSL in viewers? IIRC GSL isn't even on television, how can it possibly have more viewers than the OSL Finals which was in China? I'm not having a go at you but where are you getting your numbers?
Especially considering the OGN stream is available for free internationally. It is inaccurate to claim that the views for GSL were more than the OSL finals because OGN does not release the figures for their stream PLUS noone knows for sure how many viewers there were on the Chinese language streams.
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ALLEYCAT BLUES50861 Posts
On November 06 2010 17:48 Ryo wrote:Show nested quote +On November 06 2010 16:42 ShadeR wrote:On November 06 2010 13:34 TheRabidDeer wrote:On November 06 2010 09:41 StarStruck wrote:On November 05 2010 16:07 TheRabidDeer wrote:
According to the numbers available, SC2 has already reached and/or surpassed BW popularity. I wont say its a better game, because that is opinion... but in terms of viewership, it is already quite popular. How about we leave such comments for let's say another ten years? There is no point comparing the two based on sales alone. I'm sorry, but it just doesn't work that way. That comment wasnt based on sales, it was based on the number of views for GSL vs the finals between jaedong/flash. Looking purely at sales, then BW is way ahead of SC2 (but this is also because BW has obviously been out for 12 years). I find that quite difficult to believe. GSL > OSL in viewers? IIRC GSL isn't even on television, how can it possibly have more viewers than the OSL Finals which was in China? I'm not having a go at you but where are you getting your numbers? Especially considering the OGN stream is available for free internationally. It is inaccurate to claim that the views for GSL were more than the OSL finals because OGN does not release the figures for their stream PLUS noone knows for sure how many viewers there were on the Chinese language streams.
plus restreams like on TL.....
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On November 06 2010 11:12 BLinD-RawR wrote:Show nested quote +On November 06 2010 09:43 OpticalShot wrote:
I read the article on Fomos (known to be slightly biased, pro-Blizzard), there was like literally several hundreds of replies, mostly written in e-slang with cleverly disguised derogatory terms... but it roughly looks like (and percentages don't add up because some people have multiple opinions):
25%: good let's hope SC1 dies so we can watch SC2 in peace
25%: fuck off Blizzard let us play whatever game we want
30%: GOM is just as bad as Kespa I hope both of you die
50%: Blizzard's going to win this, Kespa so stupid
95%: No matter who wins, fuck you Kespa
Basically, almost everyone wants Kespa dead. No question about it. Most Korean netizens seem to be agreeing in the one argument that Kespa is the root cause of this dispute (which is true IMO). I'm pretty sure Korean netizens also watch a whole bunch of other e-sports (non-SCBW) so they don't hate the broadcasting companies (OGN and MBC) so much. No matter how greedy Blizzard is or how GOM is betraying the country, FUCK YOU KESPA.
we'll try looking for a poll on Daily E-sports(supposed to be Pro-KeSPA I believe)...if its the same then korean netizens really don't like KeSPA.... I wonder,is it blind rage or that they know better.
Of course they know it better. They are living there, they saw e-sports grow. Most of replies in this thread are blind rage.
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Russian Federation4405 Posts
notice - blizzard is only in 25% said to be normal. I suppose at least 37.5% (to be average) know that blizzard is shit, but they dislike KeSPA more.
That's sad. As I've seen the playing koreans - they're mostly foolish and know no manners - no matter how good they play. Maybe they kind of deserve this then. -___-
But still, I think that they are mistaken. KeSPA's not so bad as they think. It's been doing way more to SC than blizzard. -___-
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ALLEYCAT BLUES50861 Posts
On November 06 2010 19:50 _Quasar_ wrote:
notice - blizzard is only in 25% said to be normal. I suppose at least 37.5% (to be average) know that blizzard is shit, but they dislike KeSPA more.
That's sad. As I've seen the playing koreans - they're mostly foolish and know no manners - no matter how good they play. Maybe they kind of deserve this then. -___-
But still, I think that they are mistaken. KeSPA's not so bad as they think. It's been doing way more to SC than blizzard. -___-
You say they are mistaken.KeSPA represents the E-Sports of their country,I'm pretty sure they know more about the stuff that happens in their country.
you have to give them credit though....they are at least honest about what they say when they flame whichever side they oppose.
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On November 06 2010 16:42 ShadeR wrote:Show nested quote +On November 06 2010 13:34 TheRabidDeer wrote:On November 06 2010 09:41 StarStruck wrote:On November 05 2010 16:07 TheRabidDeer wrote:
According to the numbers available, SC2 has already reached and/or surpassed BW popularity. I wont say its a better game, because that is opinion... but in terms of viewership, it is already quite popular. How about we leave such comments for let's say another ten years? There is no point comparing the two based on sales alone. I'm sorry, but it just doesn't work that way. That comment wasnt based on sales, it was based on the number of views for GSL vs the finals between jaedong/flash. Looking purely at sales, then BW is way ahead of SC2 (but this is also because BW has obviously been out for 12 years). I find that quite difficult to believe. GSL > OSL in viewers? IIRC GSL isn't even on television, how can it possibly have more viewers than the OSL Finals which was in China? I'm not having a go at you but where are you getting your numbers?
This is why I hate it when people crop quotes, people miss out on the rest of the posts, this was my original post:
"Regardless of this, I will let the views of the GSL be an indicator of how well SC2 is doing as an esport already.
3 million have already watched boxer vs nada (excluding live views)
2 million watched the finals from S1 (excluding live views)
since the RO32 each game has been averaging 500k views on the VOD (excluding live views)
boxer/nada pull in on average 1.5 million views (excluding live views)
Compare this to the flash vs jaedong star league S2 finals at a mere 500k views
http://ch.gomtv.com/428/27954/383919 (again, excluding live views, no clue how many watch it on TV...)"
Then somebody chimed in and said this:
"I don't remember the source but the TV ratings was along the lines of 1.2mil or so?I don't remember the source."
Then I said
"According to the numbers available, SC2 has already reached and/or surpassed BW popularity. I wont say its a better game, because that is opinion... but in terms of viewership, it is already quite popular."
Like I said, according to any numbers that we have access to, SC2 is just as popular as BW in korea (or nearly).
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On November 06 2010 19:50 _Quasar_ wrote:
notice - blizzard is only in 25% said to be normal. I suppose at least 37.5% (to be average) know that blizzard is shit, but they dislike KeSPA more.
That's sad. As I've seen the playing koreans - they're mostly foolish and know no manners - no matter how good they play. Maybe they kind of deserve this then. -___-
But still, I think that they are mistaken. KeSPA's not so bad as they think. It's been doing way more to SC than blizzard. -___-
Read this:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=50956¤tpage=2#36
It is the beginnings of why korea started to dislike kespa (written by a korean) back in 2007.
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ALLEYCAT BLUES50861 Posts
On November 06 2010 20:48 TheRabidDeer wrote:Show nested quote +On November 06 2010 19:50 _Quasar_ wrote:
notice - blizzard is only in 25% said to be normal. I suppose at least 37.5% (to be average) know that blizzard is shit, but they dislike KeSPA more.
That's sad. As I've seen the playing koreans - they're mostly foolish and know no manners - no matter how good they play. Maybe they kind of deserve this then. -___-
But still, I think that they are mistaken. KeSPA's not so bad as they think. It's been doing way more to SC than blizzard. -___- Read this: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=50956¤tpage=2#36It is the beginnings of why korea started to dislike kespa (written by a korean) back in 2007.
I haven't read this word for word...but I don't think it was mentioned at all that,from what I heard KeSPA really went batshit when the head of the SK group became the chairman and ever since there has been an ongoing struggle between the SK group and the CJ group or something...
Its only a rumor as far as I know and don't take this as evidence until its confirmed by someone.
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On November 06 2010 19:50 _Quasar_ wrote:
notice - blizzard is only in 25% said to be normal. I suppose at least 37.5% (to be average) know that blizzard is shit, but they dislike KeSPA more.
That's sad. As I've seen the playing koreans - they're mostly foolish and know no manners - no matter how good they play. Maybe they kind of deserve this then. -___-
But still, I think that they are mistaken. KeSPA's not so bad as they think. It's been doing way more to SC than blizzard. -___-
You sound like you know more about Korean E-sport association better than people who live in Korea, people who saw e-sport grow in Korea, people who saw the creation of KeSPA, people who speak korean and then you say korean players are fools, have no manners and don't respect other players?
Are you stupid?
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On November 06 2010 20:46 TheRabidDeer wrote:Show nested quote +On November 06 2010 16:42 ShadeR wrote:On November 06 2010 13:34 TheRabidDeer wrote:On November 06 2010 09:41 StarStruck wrote:On November 05 2010 16:07 TheRabidDeer wrote:
According to the numbers available, SC2 has already reached and/or surpassed BW popularity. I wont say its a better game, because that is opinion... but in terms of viewership, it is already quite popular. How about we leave such comments for let's say another ten years? There is no point comparing the two based on sales alone. I'm sorry, but it just doesn't work that way. That comment wasnt based on sales, it was based on the number of views for GSL vs the finals between jaedong/flash. Looking purely at sales, then BW is way ahead of SC2 (but this is also because BW has obviously been out for 12 years). I find that quite difficult to believe. GSL > OSL in viewers? IIRC GSL isn't even on television, how can it possibly have more viewers than the OSL Finals which was in China? I'm not having a go at you but where are you getting your numbers? This is why I hate it when people crop quotes, people miss out on the rest of the posts, this was my original post: "Regardless of this, I will let the views of the GSL be an indicator of how well SC2 is doing as an esport already. 3 million have already watched boxer vs nada (excluding live views) 2 million watched the finals from S1 (excluding live views) since the RO32 each game has been averaging 500k views on the VOD (excluding live views) boxer/nada pull in on average 1.5 million views (excluding live views) Compare this to the flash vs jaedong star league S2 finals at a mere 500k views http://ch.gomtv.com/428/27954/383919 (again, excluding live views, no clue how many watch it on TV...)" Then somebody chimed in and said this: "I don't remember the source but the TV ratings was along the lines of 1.2mil or so?I don't remember the source." Then I said "According to the numbers available, SC2 has already reached and/or surpassed BW popularity. I wont say its a better game, because that is opinion... but in terms of viewership, it is already quite popular." Like I said, according to any numbers that we have access to, SC2 is just as popular as BW in korea (or nearly).
So despite knowing that there are vital statistics you cant get a hold of your still willing to conclude that *the numbers* show that SC2 has reached or surpassed BW....
I'm sure someone else can come up some crazy analogy making fun of your conclusion but i just can't begin to fathom your thought process that lead you to these conclusions...
You source gomtv showing that the OSL had a mere 500k views, but choose to ignore the fact that it was broadcast live by OGN in Korea and its chinese partner in china.
You don't even consider the 10's of thousands of people who rolled up to the venue to truly watch it live..
All in all i suppose my main point is you that can twist numbers around all you want but in the end it's simply ridiculous to try and infer that SC2 which hasn't been out very long and is not even broadcast on television is just as or more popular than BW.
PS: I'm not sure what you mean by hating people cropping posts. I quoted your entire comment.
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Russian Federation4405 Posts
You sound like you know more about Korean E-sport association better than people who live in Korea, people who saw e-sport grow in Korea, people who saw the creation of KeSPA, people who speak korean and then you say korean players are fools, have no manners and don't respect other players?
Are you stupid?
I say that for whom I've seen, they don't seem too smart -___- And therefore they may not understand what they talking about. -__-
And I doubt that the people who play/watch now, witnessed the creation of KeSPA. I think there are 95% of them who haven't even seen Boxer/Nada/iloveoov live at their prime.
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ALLEYCAT BLUES50861 Posts
On November 06 2010 22:09 _Quasar_ wrote:Show nested quote +You sound like you know more about Korean E-sport association better than people who live in Korea, people who saw e-sport grow in Korea, people who saw the creation of KeSPA, people who speak korean and then you say korean players are fools, have no manners and don't respect other players?
Are you stupid? I say that for whom I've seen, they don't seem too smart -___- And therefore they may not understand what they talking about. -__- And I doubt that the people who play/watch now, witnessed the creation of KeSPA. I think there are 95% of them who haven't even seen Boxer/Nada/iloveoov live at their prime.
Thinking is not knowing...Even I have thrown some thoughts out only to have my ass bitten by people with hard facts.
Also lot of their viewers are from the age of 18-30...so yeah a lot of them do know the history of KeSPA quite well.
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On November 06 2010 22:09 _Quasar_ wrote:Show nested quote +You sound like you know more about Korean E-sport association better than people who live in Korea, people who saw e-sport grow in Korea, people who saw the creation of KeSPA, people who speak korean and then you say korean players are fools, have no manners and don't respect other players?
Are you stupid? I say that for whom I've seen, they don't seem too smart -___- And therefore they may not understand what they talking about. -__- And I doubt that the people who play/watch now, witnessed the creation of KeSPA. I think there are 95% of them who haven't even seen Boxer/Nada/iloveoov live at their prime.
So...Koreans who have more info than you will ever have about KeSPA and the E-sports in their country are ignorant and "not very smart" because they have an opinion that is different than yours, which seems to be based purely on love for BW without any objectivity? Not sure they are the ones not understanding.
This whole situation is horrible and the only people that will really get hurt in this are the "small people" (viewers and players) because all the parties involved are greedy (either for control or money) and pigheaded.
BW deserves to survive and thrive until it dies it's own "natural" death so in the end I'm not siding with anyone and just want for both games to co-exist. Both are clearly popular and have their place in E-sports. It's impossible to know what's really going on because we are in no position to be fully informed and because neither side is above lying and spinning the truth.
Discussing isn't the same as stating opinions as fact and attacking the other side for not agreeing. That's just immature and sad.
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On November 06 2010 22:09 _Quasar_ wrote:Show nested quote +You sound like you know more about Korean E-sport association better than people who live in Korea, people who saw e-sport grow in Korea, people who saw the creation of KeSPA, people who speak korean and then you say korean players are fools, have no manners and don't respect other players?
Are you stupid? I say that for whom I've seen, they don't seem too smart -___- And therefore they may not understand what they talking about. -__- And I doubt that the people who play/watch now, witnessed the creation of KeSPA. I think there are 95% of them who haven't even seen Boxer/Nada/iloveoov live at their prime.
Yeah you are clueless.
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EPT
