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Russian Federation4405 Posts
Yes they have lawyeristic rights, but in the terms of morale they're cardinally wrong.
They owe something to korean pro gaming. This is the main point. If they don't realise it i hope they burn in hell. They're not "good" or "nice" or "caring about e-sports or fans". Just a money-hungry aggregate with no human morale.
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They're trying to steal the magic.
Basically claiming that all of Korean esports is theirs, as a derivative work.
I support Blizzard's rights to go after broadcasting fees, but to claim ownership of the replays and players seems incredulous.
If they're just haggling over price then I think things will work out fine.
The judge will set a price and things will move on.
Except for the fact that Kotick, Lord of Activision, is a sociopath. So I'm pretty sure your worst case scenario is far to optimistic.
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Russian Federation4405 Posts
Lolol i didn't have a single doubt about the Kotick's moral portrait. =))))))))
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Kennigit
Canada19447 Posts
Next person to derail this into a bobby kotick thread gets ip banned.
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Russian Federation4405 Posts
But still. That deleted image of him just says "gief meh yo soullll pl0x". And I don't like that kind of people. It looks at least scary. T_T
Returning to the normal topic of the thread - the above link gives us evidence that bosses of Blizzard have no normal human notions of honor, requirement to keep the done promises and thankfulness to those who contributed to one's success. Just a hunger for money.
THAT is why I always said I don't want to have anything in common with ActiBlizz of nowadays anymore.
Yes their old games might be good, but the ActBlizz of now is just awful. I'm with anyone who turns away from them and doesn't buy / appreciate anymore of their games.
That's OK I hope?
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This is so strange. Blizzard should be thrilled with publicity. The idea of a video game production company making money from something other than selling their game is ridiculous. Why should this company have to pay for use of what they already purchased? They aren't selling "Starcraft." They are selling the players use of Starcraft. Starcraft is the tool, or the paint that artists are using. Once the tool or paint is purchased, of course craftsmen and artists are going to use it for profit. Why should someone need a license for that? Starcraft isn't a Movie. The storyline should be protected, and the game should be protected from being called something other than Starcraft. That should be the extent of their legal protection.
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Russian Federation4405 Posts
I predict the appearance of something like Heroes of Newerth on Starcraft's motive....
If they aren't allowed to use what they have contributed to, they'll just find the substitute...
I think in future the game will be sold normally, to prevent such shit. And without such crappy license agreement, instead - with the normal one. And Blizzard will go to unknown destination, with all their shitty requirements.
Its the players who truly create the game. Their work is uncomparable to mere making of the game. Now we realize that not dealing with it leads to a massive controversy. Then, we'll just find the way to pass it around.
Too much speech, and too few real deeds.
prediction (not to be taken too seriously, but however....  )) )
Oct 2011: some fan group makes Starcraft units and look alike graphics at the engine of VALVE-DotA, all called different names but all perfect recognizable.
Nov 2011: online mass tournaments on new mod, as was in CS some days. Koreans recognize the mod and mass play it.
Dec 2011: OGN launches the first tournaments on the newfound game. In the internet rumours spread that by hotkeys and playstyle they have figured out accounts of Flash, Jaedong, Bisu, SAVIOR (!!!!) and others like this. The final tournament of the year meets such semifinals as: Flash vs Jaedong... and Savior vs Bisu! The fans cheer and greet their old idols.
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On November 06 2010 03:45 _Quasar_ wrote:I predict the appearance of something like Heroes of Newerth on Starcraft's motive.... If they aren't allowed to use what they have contributed to, they'll just find the substitute... I think in future the game will be sold normally, to prevent such shit. And without such crappy license agreement, instead - with the normal one. And Blizzard will go to unknown destination, with all their shitty requirements. Its the players who truly create the game. Their work is uncomparable to mere making of the game. Now we realize that not dealing with it leads to a massive controversy. Then, we'll just find the way to pass it around. Too much speech, and too few real deeds. prediction (not to be taken too seriously, but however.... )) ) Oct 2011: some fan group makes Starcraft units and look alike graphics at the engine of VALVE-DotA, all called different names but all perfect recognizable. Nov 2011: online mass tournaments on new mod, as was in CS some days. Koreans recognize the mod and mass play it. Dec 2011: OGN launches the first tournaments on the newfound game. In the internet rumours spread that by hotkeys and playstyle they have figured out accounts of Flash, Jaedong, Bisu, SAVIOR (!!!!) and others like this. The final tournament of the year meets such semifinals as: Flash vs Jaedong... and Savior vs Bisu! The fans cheer and greet their old idols.
Sorry to burst your bubble, but BW with a different engine is not BW. ;;
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On November 06 2010 03:45 _Quasar_ wrote:I predict the appearance of something like Heroes of Newerth on Starcraft's motive.... If they aren't allowed to use what they have contributed to, they'll just find the substitute... I think in future the game will be sold normally, to prevent such shit. And without such crappy license agreement, instead - with the normal one. And Blizzard will go to unknown destination, with all their shitty requirements. Its the players who truly create the game. Their work is uncomparable to mere making of the game. Now we realize that not dealing with it leads to a massive controversy. Then, we'll just find the way to pass it around. Too much speech, and too few real deeds. prediction (not to be taken too seriously, but however.... )) ) Oct 2011: some fan group makes Starcraft units and look alike graphics at the engine of VALVE-DotA, all called different names but all perfect recognizable. Nov 2011: online mass tournaments on new mod, as was in CS some days. Koreans recognize the mod and mass play it. Dec 2011: OGN launches the first tournaments on the newfound game. In the internet rumours spread that by hotkeys and playstyle they have figured out accounts of Flash, Jaedong, Bisu, SAVIOR (!!!!) and others like this. The final tournament of the year meets such semifinals as: Flash vs Jaedong... and Savior vs Bisu! The fans cheer and greet their old idols.
I think your not using your head if you fantasy such things.
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On November 06 2010 03:31 _Quasar_ wrote:
Returning to the normal topic of the thread - the above link gives us evidence that bosses of Blizzard have no normal human notions of honor, requirement to keep the done promises and thankfulness to those who contributed to one's success. Just a hunger for money.
I do not understand how you are concluding this based on Blizzard requiring OGN to honor their licensing rights. Blizzard announced they would be exerting this control a little over a year ago when they started talking about Battlenet 2.0 and began their negotiations with KeSPA, GOMtv, MLG, etc.
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On November 06 2010 03:34 pi_rate_pir_ate wrote:
This is so strange. Blizzard should be thrilled with publicity. The idea of a video game production company making money from something other than selling their game is ridiculous. Why should this company have to pay for use of what they already purchased? They aren't selling "Starcraft." They are selling the players use of Starcraft. Starcraft is the tool, or the paint that artists are using. Once the tool or paint is purchased, of course craftsmen and artists are going to use it for profit. Why should someone need a license for that? Starcraft isn't a Movie. The storyline should be protected, and the game should be protected from being called something other than Starcraft. That should be the extent of their legal protection.
Starcraft, the game itself is not a tool. The purpose of the game is not for people to use it to whatever their fullest intent is to use it as. They have limitations base on the EULA/TOS, and most if not all written in there can be legally protected. The only thing that comes close to a tool in Starcraft is the editor. There you can use it as a tool to create whatever ideas you so wish desire to use as a map, but even that has some limitations as well. Some of you people don't know or forget that copyright, trademark, are all part of IP law, and most developed countries have laws that protect them.
Blizzard does owe a lot of their success in BW and other RTS to Korean E-sports, but other than that, they don't owe anything else to them. Don't let passion blind your judgement, or at least in legal terms. It does not matter whether you make a profit or not, but if they don't like their product(s) being advertised or broadcasted in some way or even how it is processed, then they have the legal right to intervene to do so.
Like I said earlier before, going to court with this is not the end period. Blizzard/Gretech, OGN, and MBC could not come to an agreement with their negotiations, so they have to take it to the next step where a court can decide and settle this matter. Blizzard/Gretech did not wish to keep negotiating if it wasn't going anywhere, so now they have to settle it by law. If Blizzard wins these cases against the broadcasting companies, then maybe if Blizzard gives them a chance, they can renegotiate for new licenses to broadcast BW. However, it will have to be on Blizzard/Gretech's terms.
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Russian Federation4405 Posts
Sorry to burst your bubble, but BW with a different engine is not BW. ;;
lol, sc2 is too not BW. -__- Maybe something made with the love for the game could be MORE bw than THIS. T_T
As I said before (answering to previous poster) - korean pro scene's relation to Blizzard's large success is somewhere "near the source". And you can't just go and spit at this source. No nice words saying how kind and right you are will close this from the view of people.
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On the EULA topic, anybody has a copy of SC:BW's Terms of Use or End-User License Agreement? I do not know what the ToU/EULA for SC:BW was, but im positive that its not even close to that of SC2, at least the part about Custom Maps and replays and a bunch of other stuffs would likely not be the same. I know in WC3 it wasnt like that.
And im doubtful that any great custom maps can come along and make it big in SC2. 's far as i know, the greatest joy for map-makers are having many people playing their custom maps. And that would likely not be achieved by Blizzard putting it into Premium section (need to pay to play).. Getting paid a little doesnt really matter either, if its really really good money will come along (Icefrog n DotA). Not to mention putting your heart (and lots of time) into creating something just so that some other guys (Blizz) can own all the rights to it ... kinda sucks, at least for me.
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On November 06 2010 01:45 vOdToasT wrote:Show nested quote +On November 05 2010 22:36 mprs wrote::
looks like i found another reason to hate SC2. This is the dumbest line of thinking possible ever period. This company sued another company, so I'm going to hate one of their games. BUT I WILL LOVE THE OTHER GAME THEY MADE LOLOLOLOL If you think the same people who made SC2 made SC, you are mistaken. You can hate SC2 and love SC without being a hypocrite.
I just have to nitpick because recently I got annoyed at BW elitists (I love both games) claiming this so I pulled out my BW case and matched nearly all the names in the credits with the ones flowing on my screen from SC2. A few programmers went to WoW, nearly all still work with Blizzard, and the major people worked on both games.
Unless you're trying to say they somehow mutated into different people because of the Activision merge, in which case I will remind some ignorant people here that Blizzard still has full control over their own IP and company. (Same deal Bungie has now)
With that said, I absolutely hate how these topics always turn into bashing SC2. (and sometimes bashing BW) Love both games, play SC2 now, still watch both, and I still think this will all work out in a good way.
@ffreakk:
Page 96 is the start of the EULA
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I don't have any problem with Blizzard taking control of who can broadcast their games. Korea was lucky to have been able to grow a multi-billion dollar industry without having to appease the company who's work they use, and I find it hilarious how many people complain as if Blizzard should just be thankful for the fact that they use their game. It's like... they don't need Korea's help to be successful.
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On November 06 2010 06:43 Wolfpox wrote:
I don't have any problem with Blizzard taking control of who can broadcast their games. Korea was lucky to have been able to grow a multi-billion dollar industry without having to appease the company who's work they use, and I find it hilarious how many people complain as if Blizzard should just be thankful for the fact that they use their game. It's like... they don't need Korea's help to be successful.
Yet another misinformed opinion.
Its already been stated (and should've been obvious seeing as no one ever paid to watch BW competitions) that theres little / no profit being made directly out of the pro scene.
The money that is currently in the pro scene for BW was invested in by a bunch of big sponsors (the members that make up Kespa). This is an investment for publicity, theres no "multibillion dollar industry". The whole industry can easily collapse just from the licensing demands Blizz are making because the companies could easily decide that they've had enough trying to look good sponsoring BW.
I find it hilarious that people still show ingratitude to the people that kept Brood War going for so long at no profit whatsoever. The first real ever pro scene for E sports (i.e. fulltime gamers on a salary for a team) getting analed and people are cheering.
And its infuriating that people think its a good thing that Blizzard is screwing the Korean pro scene over this way suing OGN and MBC outright. Not even targeting the true source of their "problem" which is Kespa.
And you should have a problem with Blizzard taking control, there is no precedent for this and it will effect Esports in a very significant way if its proven that a game company can come in after 10 years of Esports development and shut the whole thing down.
What if Blizzard stops caring, the scene dies, no one else is even allowed to care.
Legality aside, whether legally blizzard is justified in their actions is still a lack of appreciation for people who've invested millions and made no money out of it save for PERHAPS the boost in publicity from sponsoring the pro scene.
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Stream is super echo-y.
nvm, I reloaded and it is fine now.
edit2 (oops wrong thread)
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On November 06 2010 06:10 xBillehx wrote:Show nested quote +On November 06 2010 01:45 vOdToasT wrote:On November 05 2010 22:36 mprs wrote::
looks like i found another reason to hate SC2. This is the dumbest line of thinking possible ever period. This company sued another company, so I'm going to hate one of their games. BUT I WILL LOVE THE OTHER GAME THEY MADE LOLOLOLOL If you think the same people who made SC2 made SC, you are mistaken. You can hate SC2 and love SC without being a hypocrite. I just have to nitpick because recently I got annoyed at BW elitists (I love both games) claiming this so I pulled out my BW case and matched nearly all the names in the credits with the ones flowing on my screen from SC2. A few programmers went to WoW, nearly all still work with Blizzard, and the major people worked on both games. Unless you're trying to say they somehow mutated into different people because of the Activision merge, in which case I will remind some ignorant people here that Blizzard still has full control over their own IP and company. (Same deal Bungie has now) With that said, I absolutely hate how these topics always turn into bashing SC2. (and sometimes bashing BW) Love both games, play SC2 now, still watch both, and I still think this will all work out in a good way. @ffreakk: Page 96 is the start of the EULA
If that is true and the same people did both games then explain the horrible horrible campaign storyline. Senility?
Back on topic, this discussion can go on forever. The courts will decide now. Since this is without precedent, these cases will be a huge deal. It boggles my mind how people can claim that legally this is open and close, starcraft is not a movie, there is no way you can prove to me that blizzard owns Jaedong's performance. All they own is the shitty low res graphics, horrible pathfinding, bugs, etc., things that the players wrestle with while they struggle to make it an esport. Definitely NOT the things that make it a viable business. And they should be payed for the use of these of course, say 100$ per tournament?
Personally I am rooting for the broadcasters, no prolegue=no professional players. And I would prefer to watch iccup A/B tourneys to semi-pros having a go at the pot in GSL.
This is my opinion, of course what matters now is what the courts decide.
GL KeSPA/MBC/OGN fingers crossed.
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Canada11279 Posts
On November 06 2010 08:27 hellbound wrote:Show nested quote +On November 06 2010 06:10 xBillehx wrote:On November 06 2010 01:45 vOdToasT wrote:On November 05 2010 22:36 mprs wrote::
looks like i found another reason to hate SC2. This is the dumbest line of thinking possible ever period. This company sued another company, so I'm going to hate one of their games. BUT I WILL LOVE THE OTHER GAME THEY MADE LOLOLOLOL If you think the same people who made SC2 made SC, you are mistaken. You can hate SC2 and love SC without being a hypocrite. I just have to nitpick because recently I got annoyed at BW elitists (I love both games) claiming this so I pulled out my BW case and matched nearly all the names in the credits with the ones flowing on my screen from SC2. A few programmers went to WoW, nearly all still work with Blizzard, and the major people worked on both games. Unless you're trying to say they somehow mutated into different people because of the Activision merge, in which case I will remind some ignorant people here that Blizzard still has full control over their own IP and company. (Same deal Bungie has now) With that said, I absolutely hate how these topics always turn into bashing SC2. (and sometimes bashing BW) Love both games, play SC2 now, still watch both, and I still think this will all work out in a good way. @ffreakk: Page 96 is the start of the EULA If that is true and the same people did both games then explain the horrible horrible campaign storyline. Senility?
Well why people think the story is horrible is just diverting the argument- which was that one can hate SC2 and not SCBW because they're not the same people. Given that most of the folks are mostly the same, then yes you are hating and loving the same people, which seems somewhat hypocritical.
I guess it will be this section of the EULA that will be the contested piece:
(Spoiler-ed for brevity.)
+ Show Spoiler +
2. Ownership. All title, ownership rights and intellectual property rights in and to the Program and any and all
copies thereof (including but not limited to any titles, computer code, themes, objects, characters, character
names, stories, dialog, catch phrases, locations, concepts, artwork, animations, sounds, musical compositions,
audio-visual effects, methods of operation, moral rights, any related documentation, and “applets” incorporated
into the Program) are owned by Blizzard Entertainment or its licensors. The Program is protected by the copyright
laws of the United States, international copyright treaties and conventions and other laws. All rights are reserved.
The Program contains certain licensed materials and Blizzard’s licensors may protect their rights in the event of
any violation of this Agreement.
3. Responsibilities of End User.
A. Subject to the Grant of License hereinabove, you may not, in whole or in part, copy, photocopy,
reproduce, translate, reverse engineer, derive source code, modify, disassemble, decompile, create
derivative works based on the Program, or remove any proprietary notices or labels on the Program
without the prior consent, in writing, of Blizzard.
B. The Program is licensed to you as a single product. Its component parts may not be separated for use
on more than one computer.
C. You are entitled to use the Program for your own use, but you are not be entitled to:
(i) sell, grant a security interest in or transfer reproductions of the Program to other parties in any
way, nor to rent, lease or license the Program to others without the prior written consent of
Blizzard.
(ii) exploit the Program or any of its parts for any commercial purpose including, but not limited to,
use at a cyber café, computer gaming center or any other location-based site. Blizzard may offer
a separate Site License Agreement to permit you to make the Program available for commercial
use; contact Blizzard for details;
(iii) use or allow third parties to use the Editor and the New Materials created thereby for commercial
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Including this piece:
I hereby acknowledge that I have read and understand the foregoing License Agreement and agree that the action
of installing the Program is an acknowledgment of my agreement to be bound by the terms and conditions of the
License Agreement contained herein. I also acknowledge and agree that this License Agreement is the complete
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and myself.
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EPT
