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On November 05 2010 20:49 _Quasar_ wrote:Show nested quote +On November 05 2010 20:31 TheRabidDeer wrote:
Yes, BW does increase blizzards reputation. Nowhere do I state that it didnt. I do think that everybody here is overstating how much it has effected their reputation. I also think that people further overstate how much the pro scene in particular has effected their reputation. I mean, if we used the logic of everybody in this thread, then valve should be nobodies... and yet they are one of the best respected developers in the world because of their reputation with their games. 4,5 million copies, dude. 4.5 million of 9.5 overall. And raised strategy genre to the competitive state. It means it gave impact on WC3 and SC2. Otherwise they would nowhere as popular. And now we have numbers, that are like a hint to us. If Korea sales are about 50% of world's, why the popularity over the world is not so contributed to Korea? Lets not forget that the WC3 was also popular there. There were (or still are) pro teams and they helped the popularity. They owe them their reputation. They owe them popularity of the strategic genre. StarCraft is a phenomenon. But it wouldn't be, and wouldn't lead to notability of other Blizz strategic games, if it wasn't for korean proscene. I'm quite sure that IS ENOUGH to take HANDS OFF them. Inhumanity is not so popular nowadays. We've had enough of it last century -___-
Again, yes it helped. However, BLIZZARD is not just RTS. I dont know if there is some kind of language barrier going on or something, but I keep having to restate this. 4.5 million copies sold is NOTHING compared to 12 million ACTIVE SUBSCRIPTIONS (12+ million people buying classic WoW, TBC, WotLK and soon cataclysm... 12 million people paying $180 each year to play). It is NOTHING compared to OVERALL sales. Yes, it is something and it did probably contribute to WC3/SC2 sales, but seriously their overall reputation (and why all of their games sell) is not effected as much as you try to indicate. You are making it seem like if BW didnt get the pro scene then SC2 wouldnt have happened, or any of the other games that blizzard has made since then.
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Why couldn't they just get permission?
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On November 05 2010 20:56 TheRabidDeer wrote:Show nested quote +On November 05 2010 20:49 _Quasar_ wrote:On November 05 2010 20:31 TheRabidDeer wrote:
Yes, BW does increase blizzards reputation. Nowhere do I state that it didnt. I do think that everybody here is overstating how much it has effected their reputation. I also think that people further overstate how much the pro scene in particular has effected their reputation. I mean, if we used the logic of everybody in this thread, then valve should be nobodies... and yet they are one of the best respected developers in the world because of their reputation with their games. 4,5 million copies, dude. 4.5 million of 9.5 overall. And raised strategy genre to the competitive state. It means it gave impact on WC3 and SC2. Otherwise they would nowhere as popular. And now we have numbers, that are like a hint to us. If Korea sales are about 50% of world's, why the popularity over the world is not so contributed to Korea? Lets not forget that the WC3 was also popular there. There were (or still are) pro teams and they helped the popularity. They owe them their reputation. They owe them popularity of the strategic genre. StarCraft is a phenomenon. But it wouldn't be, and wouldn't lead to notability of other Blizz strategic games, if it wasn't for korean proscene. I'm quite sure that IS ENOUGH to take HANDS OFF them. Inhumanity is not so popular nowadays. We've had enough of it last century -___- Again, yes it helped. However, BLIZZARD is not just RTS. I dont know if there is some kind of language barrier going on or something, but I keep having to restate this. 4.5 million copies sold is NOTHING compared to 12 million ACTIVE SUBSCRIPTIONS (12+ million people buying classic WoW, TBC, WotLK and soon cataclysm... 12 million people paying $180 each year to play). It is NOTHING compared to OVERALL sales. Yes, it is something and it did probably contribute to WC3/SC2 sales, but seriously their overall reputation (and why all of their games sell) is not effected as much as you try to indicate. You are making it seem like if BW didnt get the pro scene then SC2 wouldnt have happened, or any of the other games that blizzard has made since then.
I dunno what you guys are arguing about. You're both right. Starcraft laid the foundations down for SC2 and the progaming scene, without it there would be no GSL and Starcraft 2 would be called Space Wars 2.
But BW isn't the ONLY reason SC2 is popular, if you look at the number of copies sold and rave reviews it has received then SC2 is the top RTS release in YEARS based on its number of sales and reviews.
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Isn't this basically the same thing that is happening to MBC? Ok Blizzard needs to start looking after the benefit of E-sports as a whole rather than caring only about money and expanding its corporation...
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Russian Federation4405 Posts
Koreans owe starcraft's proscene to starcraft = they've bought millions of copies of both games.
Blizzard owes starcraft's popularity to proscene = they didn't even thank them and now suing them.
Lol kthxbye? -____-
And lol, WoW also has a relation to WC3 which success is highly related with SC (or otherwise, it wouldn't be even a bit balanced). I saw many people go to WoW only because they played WC3. Lol, now there is no relation?
They now want to get money from SC2 in a similar fashion as WoW, on daily/weekly/monthly based income, by means of tournaments, broadcast licenses and so on. But they will fail in it because they are not able to make of it a worthy spectacle. Only koreans can - it is their "intellectual property".
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Blizzard is indebted to Korea. E-sports is indebted to Korea... Korea created E-sports... What does Blizzard think it's doing?
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Blizzard should be grateful that Starcraft 1 is still being played and broadcasted
but it's indeed a problem OGN not trying to make a deal first and bitching later about the price
it's so sad to see a 97'th game not being free yet
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I dont know if I am going to be able to respond to this thread anymore, as I am currently in the process of ripping my eyeballs out in frustration at these posts.
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Russian Federation4405 Posts
On November 05 2010 21:29 TheRabidDeer wrote:
I dont know if I am going to be able to respond to this thread anymore, as I am currently in the process of ripping my eyeballs out in frustration at these posts.
Korea. Created. E-sports.
WC3's popularity - they owe it to SC at very high degree.
WoW would never be so popular if not the first generation of its players who switched from WC3.
They're trying to defile the very source.
It doesn't come without repay.
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On November 05 2010 21:29 TheRabidDeer wrote:
I dont know if I am going to be able to respond to this thread anymore, as I am currently in the process of ripping my eyeballs out in frustration at these posts.
Do the same thing as i am gonna do: go for a walk
Back to the topic. People say that Blizz has no IP-Rights about their own game? Only because there were other people involved into making SC popular?
I tell you something, it´s all about money and Kespa's already got their peace of the cake. You can say that Kespa is a non-profit organisation, but i promiss you SOMEONE is getting rich.
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Russian Federation4405 Posts
Yes, they got the ip rights. But they also use the popularity that koreans gave them.
They get their ip property's payback when, for example, I buy from them SC1. Or Koreans buy it. Or OGN/MBC/Kespa buys it - i'm pretty sure that any progamer and any show computer has a licensed copy of the game.
But the show they create of it - it is THEIRS.
If Blizz uses this popularity to their profit and then said - we're suing you. And even no thank, no any payback.
These shows cannot be undone - so Blizz must deal with it as with something that they used, but not created. If they don't - they're cardinally wrong.
If you think that Blizzard owns it all - forget iccup, all other servers - go to battle.net and play only on it and in single campaign. And yes, no fan-made maps. You'll see the difference.
P.S.: Blizzard made 2 maps that basically don't suck - Lost Temple (and imbalanced in almost all pre-korean versions too) and Hunters (can be even used 1x1 but too imbalanced in pre-korean vesions)
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On November 05 2010 20:56 TheRabidDeer wrote:Show nested quote +On November 05 2010 20:49 _Quasar_ wrote:On November 05 2010 20:31 TheRabidDeer wrote:
Yes, BW does increase blizzards reputation. Nowhere do I state that it didnt. I do think that everybody here is overstating how much it has effected their reputation. I also think that people further overstate how much the pro scene in particular has effected their reputation. I mean, if we used the logic of everybody in this thread, then valve should be nobodies... and yet they are one of the best respected developers in the world because of their reputation with their games. 4,5 million copies, dude. 4.5 million of 9.5 overall. And raised strategy genre to the competitive state. It means it gave impact on WC3 and SC2. Otherwise they would nowhere as popular. And now we have numbers, that are like a hint to us. If Korea sales are about 50% of world's, why the popularity over the world is not so contributed to Korea? Lets not forget that the WC3 was also popular there. There were (or still are) pro teams and they helped the popularity. They owe them their reputation. They owe them popularity of the strategic genre. StarCraft is a phenomenon. But it wouldn't be, and wouldn't lead to notability of other Blizz strategic games, if it wasn't for korean proscene. I'm quite sure that IS ENOUGH to take HANDS OFF them. Inhumanity is not so popular nowadays. We've had enough of it last century -___- Again, yes it helped. However, BLIZZARD is not just RTS. I dont know if there is some kind of language barrier going on or something, but I keep having to restate this. 4.5 million copies sold is NOTHING compared to 12 million ACTIVE SUBSCRIPTIONS (12+ million people buying classic WoW, TBC, WotLK and soon cataclysm... 12 million people paying $180 each year to play). It is NOTHING compared to OVERALL sales. Yes, it is something and it did probably contribute to WC3/SC2 sales, but seriously their overall reputation (and why all of their games sell) is not effected as much as you try to indicate. You are making it seem like if BW didnt get the pro scene then SC2 wouldnt have happened, or any of the other games that blizzard has made since then.
Considering this was right of the top of the last page I checked, I think I should comment on this.
You cannot compare the sales from SC:BW to WoW. Not only are they totally different genres, but they're totally different times as well: 1998 and 2004 respectfully. When SC:BW was released it shattered sales records. Likewise WoW did the same thing when it was released. I just wanted to point that out. -_-
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i think that blizzard are completely within their rights to crack down on OGN. they made it, they have intellectual property rights and OGN aren't respecting that. it's a shame it had to come to a legal battle. maybe the Blizz team can challange the OGN team to a casted game (HD and Husky casting?  )
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On November 05 2010 21:42 _Quasar_ wrote:
Yes, they got the ip rights. But they also use the popularity that koreans gave them.
They get their ip property's payback when, for example, I buy from them SC1. Or Koreans buy it. Or OGN/MBC/Kespa buys it - i'm pretty sure that any progamer and any show computer has a licensed copy of the game.
But the show they create of it - it is THEIRS.
If Blizz uses this popularity to their profit and then said - we're suing you. And even no thank, no any payback.
These shows cannot be undone - so Blizz must deal with it as with something that they used, but not created. If they don't - they're cardinally wrong.
If you think that Blizzard owns it all - forget iccup, all other servers - go to battle.net and play only on it and in single campaign. And yes, no fan-made maps. You'll see the difference.
P.S.: Blizzard made 2 maps that basically don't suck - Lost Temple (and imbalanced in almost all pre-korean versions too) and Hunters (can be even used 1x1 but too imbalanced in pre-korean vesions)
Maybe thats just the Softwareengineer speaking out of me... but the effort making a map via editor isn't nearly as big as making the whole game, including the engine and the friggin editor
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On November 05 2010 21:47 StarStruck wrote:Show nested quote +On November 05 2010 20:56 TheRabidDeer wrote:On November 05 2010 20:49 _Quasar_ wrote:On November 05 2010 20:31 TheRabidDeer wrote:
Yes, BW does increase blizzards reputation. Nowhere do I state that it didnt. I do think that everybody here is overstating how much it has effected their reputation. I also think that people further overstate how much the pro scene in particular has effected their reputation. I mean, if we used the logic of everybody in this thread, then valve should be nobodies... and yet they are one of the best respected developers in the world because of their reputation with their games. 4,5 million copies, dude. 4.5 million of 9.5 overall. And raised strategy genre to the competitive state. It means it gave impact on WC3 and SC2. Otherwise they would nowhere as popular. And now we have numbers, that are like a hint to us. If Korea sales are about 50% of world's, why the popularity over the world is not so contributed to Korea? Lets not forget that the WC3 was also popular there. There were (or still are) pro teams and they helped the popularity. They owe them their reputation. They owe them popularity of the strategic genre. StarCraft is a phenomenon. But it wouldn't be, and wouldn't lead to notability of other Blizz strategic games, if it wasn't for korean proscene. I'm quite sure that IS ENOUGH to take HANDS OFF them. Inhumanity is not so popular nowadays. We've had enough of it last century -___- Again, yes it helped. However, BLIZZARD is not just RTS. I dont know if there is some kind of language barrier going on or something, but I keep having to restate this. 4.5 million copies sold is NOTHING compared to 12 million ACTIVE SUBSCRIPTIONS (12+ million people buying classic WoW, TBC, WotLK and soon cataclysm... 12 million people paying $180 each year to play). It is NOTHING compared to OVERALL sales. Yes, it is something and it did probably contribute to WC3/SC2 sales, but seriously their overall reputation (and why all of their games sell) is not effected as much as you try to indicate. You are making it seem like if BW didnt get the pro scene then SC2 wouldnt have happened, or any of the other games that blizzard has made since then. Considering this was right of the top of the last page I checked I think I should comment on this. You cannot compare the sales from SC:BW to WoW. Not only are they totally different genres, but they're totally different times as well: 1998 and 2004 respectfully. When SC:BW was released it shattered sales records. Likewise WoW did the same thing when it was released. I just wanted to point that out. -_-
Shouldve read the quoted posts, I am debunking quasar's theory that the BW pro scene basically created the blizzard of today. You saying that BW shattered sales records just further helps prove my point that it isnt true.
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On November 05 2010 21:36 MaDBread wrote:Show nested quote +On November 05 2010 21:29 TheRabidDeer wrote:
I dont know if I am going to be able to respond to this thread anymore, as I am currently in the process of ripping my eyeballs out in frustration at these posts. Do the same thing as i am gonna do: go for a walk Back to the topic. People say that Blizz has no IP-Rights about their own game? Only because there were other people involved into making SC popular? I tell you something, it´s all about money and Kespa's already got their peace of the cake. You can say that Kespa is a non-profit organisation, but i promiss you SOMEONE is getting rich.
Kespa maybe is RICH plus its only speculations that you can make that they are SO CALLED RICH as long there's no proof or any evidential source that kespa is the bad guy here than i rest my case now moving on to the broadcaster they are merely subsidiary broadcaster who broadcasts game and do they(ogn,mbc) reap the benefit the sponsors get from like samsung and skt1???. Ogn and mbc only get profit from their advertisement and mostly not much because the viewer's who view proleague and starcraft games are merely teenager . So what can you say about that ?????
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The Pro Scene had a big influence not only in Korea, but helped our scene out as well. To say otherwise is flat out ignorant. However, saying the BW pro scene created the Blizzard of today is just as blasphemous. In other words, your both wrong. -_-
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On November 05 2010 21:54 Sawamura wrote:Show nested quote +On November 05 2010 21:36 MaDBread wrote:On November 05 2010 21:29 TheRabidDeer wrote:
I dont know if I am going to be able to respond to this thread anymore, as I am currently in the process of ripping my eyeballs out in frustration at these posts. Do the same thing as i am gonna do: go for a walk Back to the topic. People say that Blizz has no IP-Rights about their own game? Only because there were other people involved into making SC popular? I tell you something, it´s all about money and Kespa's already got their peace of the cake. You can say that Kespa is a non-profit organisation, but i promiss you SOMEONE is getting rich. Kespa maybe is RICH plus its only speculations that you can make that they are SO CALLED RICH as long there's no proof or any evidential source that kespa is the bad guy here than i rest my case now moving on to the broadcaster they are merely subsidiary broadcaster who broadcasts game and do they(ogn,mbc) reap the benefit the sponsors get from like samsung and skt1???. Ogn and mbc only get profit from their advertisement and mostly not much because the viewer's who view proleague and starcraft games are merely teenager . So what can you say about that ?????
Maybe i dont understand something but OGN and MBC are TV stations? And most TV stations get their cash from advertising(alot of cash). They make profit and can pay for a license. I dont get where the problem is.
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Sigh, this is turning into such a cluster :-/
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Russian Federation4405 Posts
Maybe thats just the Softwareengineer speaking out of me... but the effort making a map via editor isn't nearly as big as making the whole game, including the engine and the friggin editor
effort of making e-sports scene IS huge.
And - map creators didn't do that for money.
And however - that IS effort. Go and see Blizzard's starcraft. It's just almost empty compared to the Starcraft we have now and to which the korean proscene has contributed.
Ignoring it you go against laws of the nature. And laws of nature don't like being ignored. That's basically what I'm trying to point at all the way.
StarStruck - not whole Blizzard, but their half, or third. Its VERY HIGH contribution. And it is a "source" contribution, a part of the basis - it can be ignored. And it isn't to be ignored.
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EPT
