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Russian Federation4405 Posts
On November 05 2010 17:36 toadstool wrote:
Reading these threads makes me wonder. I followed the BW scene for the past 8 years with some of these guys, and the blind hate that they have for SC2 and Blizzard is ridiculous.
I don't hate SC2 itself.
And i hate Blizzard not without a reason. I've been telling these reasons all the way.
This all perfectly makes sense.
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Any updates on Korean netizens' reactions to this, OP? I want to see what they now think about OGN being involved in a lawsuit by Blizzard too. Either way, this thread is derailing fast.
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Show nested quote +
Reading these threads makes me wonder. I followed the BW scene for the past 8 years with some of these guys, and the blind hate that they have for SC2 and Blizzard is ridiculous.
I don't hate SC2 itself. And i hate Blizzard not without a reason. I've been telling these reasons all the way. This all perfectly makes sense.
Most of your posts are about how much you hate Sc2.
But seriously whats the Problem here? Blizz is sueing a company that makes profit without paying them for a license. This case is clear, but the people are jumping the "Sc2 is shit" train again
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Estonia4504 Posts
On November 05 2010 18:11 MaDBread wrote:Show nested quote +
Reading these threads makes me wonder. I followed the BW scene for the past 8 years with some of these guys, and the blind hate that they have for SC2 and Blizzard is ridiculous.
I don't hate SC2 itself. And i hate Blizzard not without a reason. I've been telling these reasons all the way. This all perfectly makes sense. Most of your posts are about how much you hate Sc2. But seriously whats the Problem here? Blizz is sueing a company that makes profit without paying them for a license. This case is clear, but the people are jumping the "Sc2 is shit" train again
Your opinion seems to be slightly one-sided, bordering on misinformed.
Firstly, no direct profit is made, the payoff for the investors comes from advertising and the PR from sponsoring the teams.
Secondly, this has continued for almost a decade, and the negotiations began when the sponsors coerced the broadcasting firms to pay additional money to the central NPO (Non-Profit-Organization) in order to keep the leagues running. This happened 3 years ago, until then, there was no problem about requiring licenses.
Thirdly, the Broadcasting channels state that they barely break even, thus additional money demands would bring about drastic changes in either the leagues themselves, or worse yet, stop professional BW completely for even less control, if KeSPA is to be believed (and I quite blatantly do).
This is how I'd sum up the thread:
There are arguments and counterarguments as to the morality of such legal action(I help you sell your game for a decade and get sued for it), and a few regarding how much of the current BW competitive scene is separate/should be separate from the IP of Blizzard Entertainment. This is the case.
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Yes, I tempt to agree to the fact that SC and D,D2, early W2 were the games that contributed to the company's success heavily, a bigger part of this success lies heavily on korean shoulders(in terms of SC), this is undeniable. If they say that they hope for BW leagues to coexist and develop with SC2, then why all this nonsense with IP rights, that only hurts badly the development and so-called coexistence itself? No, please, we all do understand that money is all what Blizzard wants out of it, there is no way we can change it, this is the way market always worked and works. The thing is how badly will it damage the sc sport in Korea, I hope it doesn't, but can we do anything? (I wish I could do something after all.)
"According to the numbers available, SC2 has already reached and/or surpassed BW popularity. I wont say its a better game, because that is opinion... but in terms of viewership, it is already quite popular." - hah, that is not a good argument, w3 was also more successful... in the beginning)
You see many young newcomers discover SC2 and find it a good game, but what if they played BW first? I think that there is no doubt that they would have liked it, SC2 hasn't become a well balanced and fully independent game yet, its still derives much from its predecessor, can we call it a different game? I would not say that, then what is it? I would call it a new copy of the old game system. This is indeed so, then why do I need another version of the old game?
1. Because I'm tired of the old one? - No
2. Because it has fancy units and smooth graphics? - well maybe for couple of weeks, but no in the end.
3. Because it is new, and I never played such games before? - Yes. (this can be partly the answer for its popularity)
So what I'm trying to say, whatever you do you cant reinvent a wheel, nor you can stop using it)
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On November 05 2010 18:24 mustaju wrote:
This is how I'd sum up the thread:
There are arguments and counterarguments as to the morality of such legal action(I help you sell your game for a decade and get sued for it), and a few regarding how much of the current BW competitive scene is separate/should be separate from the IP of Blizzard Entertainment. This is the case.
Very good post imho. The answer comes down to personal preference, I personally feel it is insane that this is even possible. And I can't believe competition authorities would be on Blizzard's side on this subject. It is understandable that Blizzard can protect the rights to their game, but letting those rights interfere with a whole market would just be too restrictive for the innovation of the esports market. Right now they are wrongfully using their market power.
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I think the best post i read on this is that whether or not is is proven to be legal for Blizzard to control all esports for BW it would suck because when they stop caring no one else is allowed to care.
I mean look at WC3, they just dont give a shit, now theres no support, no esports.
Prize hunting doesn't sustain esports, the Kespa model is what keeps esports for a game going.
Can't believe they are suing OGN
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blizzard is a money hunger + devil
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On November 05 2010 17:26 TheRabidDeer wrote:Show nested quote +On November 05 2010 17:13 ffreakk wrote:On November 05 2010 16:52 TheRabidDeer wrote:On November 05 2010 16:34 Womwomwom wrote:On November 05 2010 16:21 TheRabidDeer wrote:On November 05 2010 16:11 We Are Here wrote:No, they do not. They owe their popularity to their games that they have created. People buy and play blizzard games because of the continued support and outstanding quality. It is their reputation, not korea. I dont even know how you could arrive at the conclusion that korea is responsible for blizzards success. by that logic, bw was big in korea cause of kespa and not boxer This doesnt even make sense. Korea is a hugely small fraction of blizzards success. Most of their sales are in the EU and US, and korea had no effect on sales in these countries. At all. I agree 4.5 million copies out of 9.5 million copies is a hugely small fraction. For BW in particular, yes korea is a lot of the sales. However, as I stated before, BW is not blizzard. Blizzard has 12 million people actively paying in WoW, D2 was in the top 10 game sales lists up to and including this year: http://www.vg247.com/2010/08/05/activision-blizzard-q2-financials-net-revenue-comes-in-at-967-million/Stop thinking that BW is the only game that blizzard makes, and you will realize this. A large amount of Blizzard's reputation was built up by Brood War I don't know how anyone can deny this. The only reason people look at Starcraft 2 and thought eSports from the get go is because of Brood War and their reputation for having the best balance team of all RTS developers is because of Brood War and the Korean scene. No, to you their reputation was built up by BW. For me, it was the combined effect of supporting their games, telling cool stories, and how awesome they all were. I loved diablo, D2, war2 (never played war1), sc, bw, and WoW. The only one that never really caught on for me was war3. The title, Starcraft, whether you like it or not, is directly connected to the Korean proscene. Anyone who doesn't know shit about gaming might still know about Starcraft as that game where little nerds can earn $100,000 on a TV channel dedicated to it. Yes, SC is quite synonymous with the korean pro scene, I have never and will not argue against that. In your haste for a counter-argument, did you forget to read his post properly? Do take note that he mentioned "reputation".. While sales figure might say this and that, they obviously fail to quantify reputation.. There are a few titles from which Blizz's reputation took off from which earn them the money for their next title.. Huge sales figure in the first few days, or even weeks of release are obviously not because the game was terrific, since almost nobody would have finished playing it to spread words that its awesome.. These people are drawn in because of the greatness of the previous titles. I did not forget to read the post correctly, did you read mine correctly? Do you not see that I mention D1, D2, and war2? All of these games were wildly successful and built their reputation even more. Then comes SC and WoW, their reputation is propelled even further. Obviously their reputation varies person to person, but for me it is a combination of the quality of all of their games.
Unfortunately you werent correct. D2 was released in 2000 while Starcraft came in 1998.
Your assumption of D2 laying down the foundation (reputation) for Starcraft was wrong. D1 was successful but nowhere near the "legendary" level of Diablo2 and Starcraft: Brood War, same goes for Warcraft 2.
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How are things with the other games that are played and broadcasted? Like CS 1.6? They made that CS clone in Korea because they had similar problems as with Blizzard now, right?
I don't understand people who come here to defend Blizzard. How does it make you happy that they destroy a professional e-sport and take away the jobs of hundreds of people? OK, maybe they have the legal right to do so - that can be debated. But it is still mean and greedy. I would have understood it if it was either BW or SC2 – but KeSPA doesn’t try to kill SC2… Why do you want this to happen? Is it some kind of oedipal complex??
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On November 05 2010 19:50 Elroi wrote:
How are things with the other games that are played and broadcasted? Like CS 1.6? They made that CS clone in Korea because they had similar problems as with Blizzard now, right?
I don't understand people who come here to defend Blizzard. How does it make you happy that they destroy a professional e-sport and take away the jobs of hundreds of people? OK, maybe they have the legal right to do so - that can be debated. But it is still mean and greedy. I would have understood it if it was either BW or SC2 – but KeSPA doesn’t try to kill SC2… Why do you want this to happen? Is it some kind of oedipal complex??
You can correct me when I am wrong (because im not 100% sure ) but didnt Kespa try to give SC2 a X-Rating so it couldnt be viewed on TV?
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On November 05 2010 19:36 ffreakk wrote:Show nested quote +On November 05 2010 17:26 TheRabidDeer wrote:On November 05 2010 17:13 ffreakk wrote:On November 05 2010 16:52 TheRabidDeer wrote:On November 05 2010 16:34 Womwomwom wrote:On November 05 2010 16:21 TheRabidDeer wrote:On November 05 2010 16:11 We Are Here wrote:No, they do not. They owe their popularity to their games that they have created. People buy and play blizzard games because of the continued support and outstanding quality. It is their reputation, not korea. I dont even know how you could arrive at the conclusion that korea is responsible for blizzards success. by that logic, bw was big in korea cause of kespa and not boxer This doesnt even make sense. Korea is a hugely small fraction of blizzards success. Most of their sales are in the EU and US, and korea had no effect on sales in these countries. At all. I agree 4.5 million copies out of 9.5 million copies is a hugely small fraction. For BW in particular, yes korea is a lot of the sales. However, as I stated before, BW is not blizzard. Blizzard has 12 million people actively paying in WoW, D2 was in the top 10 game sales lists up to and including this year: http://www.vg247.com/2010/08/05/activision-blizzard-q2-financials-net-revenue-comes-in-at-967-million/Stop thinking that BW is the only game that blizzard makes, and you will realize this. A large amount of Blizzard's reputation was built up by Brood War I don't know how anyone can deny this. The only reason people look at Starcraft 2 and thought eSports from the get go is because of Brood War and their reputation for having the best balance team of all RTS developers is because of Brood War and the Korean scene. No, to you their reputation was built up by BW. For me, it was the combined effect of supporting their games, telling cool stories, and how awesome they all were. I loved diablo, D2, war2 (never played war1), sc, bw, and WoW. The only one that never really caught on for me was war3. The title, Starcraft, whether you like it or not, is directly connected to the Korean proscene. Anyone who doesn't know shit about gaming might still know about Starcraft as that game where little nerds can earn $100,000 on a TV channel dedicated to it. Yes, SC is quite synonymous with the korean pro scene, I have never and will not argue against that. In your haste for a counter-argument, did you forget to read his post properly? Do take note that he mentioned "reputation".. While sales figure might say this and that, they obviously fail to quantify reputation.. There are a few titles from which Blizz's reputation took off from which earn them the money for their next title.. Huge sales figure in the first few days, or even weeks of release are obviously not because the game was terrific, since almost nobody would have finished playing it to spread words that its awesome.. These people are drawn in because of the greatness of the previous titles. I did not forget to read the post correctly, did you read mine correctly? Do you not see that I mention D1, D2, and war2? All of these games were wildly successful and built their reputation even more. Then comes SC and WoW, their reputation is propelled even further. Obviously their reputation varies person to person, but for me it is a combination of the quality of all of their games. Unfortunately you werent correct. D2 was released in 2000 while Starcraft came in 1998. Your assumption of D2 laying down the foundation (reputation) for Starcraft was wrong. D1 was successful but nowhere near the "legendary" level of Diablo2 and Starcraft: Brood War, same goes for Warcraft 2.
Unfortunately, you continue to not read what I am saying. I am saying that D2 was big before the BW pro scene kicked in. Therefore, BW had no impact on D2. I did not say that D2 came out before SC.
My assumption was that D2 was popular and wouldve been popular regardless of the state of BW. My argument in this thread is that people are placing way too huge of an emphasis on how BW (the korean scene in particular) effected blizzard.
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On November 05 2010 20:04 MaDBread wrote:Show nested quote +On November 05 2010 19:50 Elroi wrote:
How are things with the other games that are played and broadcasted? Like CS 1.6? They made that CS clone in Korea because they had similar problems as with Blizzard now, right?
I don't understand people who come here to defend Blizzard. How does it make you happy that they destroy a professional e-sport and take away the jobs of hundreds of people? OK, maybe they have the legal right to do so - that can be debated. But it is still mean and greedy. I would have understood it if it was either BW or SC2 – but KeSPA doesn’t try to kill SC2… Why do you want this to happen? Is it some kind of oedipal complex??
You can correct me when I am wrong (because im not 100% sure ) but didnt Kespa try to give SC2 a X-Rating so it couldnt be viewed on TV?
Source or your statement is invalid.
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On November 05 2010 20:16 Sawamura wrote:Show nested quote +On November 05 2010 20:04 MaDBread wrote:On November 05 2010 19:50 Elroi wrote:
How are things with the other games that are played and broadcasted? Like CS 1.6? They made that CS clone in Korea because they had similar problems as with Blizzard now, right?
I don't understand people who come here to defend Blizzard. How does it make you happy that they destroy a professional e-sport and take away the jobs of hundreds of people? OK, maybe they have the legal right to do so - that can be debated. But it is still mean and greedy. I would have understood it if it was either BW or SC2 – but KeSPA doesn’t try to kill SC2… Why do you want this to happen? Is it some kind of oedipal complex??
You can correct me when I am wrong (because im not 100% sure ) but didnt Kespa try to give SC2 a X-Rating so it couldnt be viewed on TV? Source or your statement is invalid.
http://www.1up.com/news/starcraft-2-adults-only-rating-korea
not necessarily kespa, but it did almost get an adult rating, which seems strange
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On November 05 2010 20:15 TheRabidDeer wrote:Show nested quote +On November 05 2010 19:36 ffreakk wrote:On November 05 2010 17:26 TheRabidDeer wrote:On November 05 2010 17:13 ffreakk wrote:On November 05 2010 16:52 TheRabidDeer wrote:On November 05 2010 16:34 Womwomwom wrote:On November 05 2010 16:21 TheRabidDeer wrote:On November 05 2010 16:11 We Are Here wrote:No, they do not. They owe their popularity to their games that they have created. People buy and play blizzard games because of the continued support and outstanding quality. It is their reputation, not korea. I dont even know how you could arrive at the conclusion that korea is responsible for blizzards success. by that logic, bw was big in korea cause of kespa and not boxer This doesnt even make sense. Korea is a hugely small fraction of blizzards success. Most of their sales are in the EU and US, and korea had no effect on sales in these countries. At all. I agree 4.5 million copies out of 9.5 million copies is a hugely small fraction. For BW in particular, yes korea is a lot of the sales. However, as I stated before, BW is not blizzard. Blizzard has 12 million people actively paying in WoW, D2 was in the top 10 game sales lists up to and including this year: http://www.vg247.com/2010/08/05/activision-blizzard-q2-financials-net-revenue-comes-in-at-967-million/Stop thinking that BW is the only game that blizzard makes, and you will realize this. A large amount of Blizzard's reputation was built up by Brood War I don't know how anyone can deny this. The only reason people look at Starcraft 2 and thought eSports from the get go is because of Brood War and their reputation for having the best balance team of all RTS developers is because of Brood War and the Korean scene. No, to you their reputation was built up by BW. For me, it was the combined effect of supporting their games, telling cool stories, and how awesome they all were. I loved diablo, D2, war2 (never played war1), sc, bw, and WoW. The only one that never really caught on for me was war3. The title, Starcraft, whether you like it or not, is directly connected to the Korean proscene. Anyone who doesn't know shit about gaming might still know about Starcraft as that game where little nerds can earn $100,000 on a TV channel dedicated to it. Yes, SC is quite synonymous with the korean pro scene, I have never and will not argue against that. In your haste for a counter-argument, did you forget to read his post properly? Do take note that he mentioned "reputation".. While sales figure might say this and that, they obviously fail to quantify reputation.. There are a few titles from which Blizz's reputation took off from which earn them the money for their next title.. Huge sales figure in the first few days, or even weeks of release are obviously not because the game was terrific, since almost nobody would have finished playing it to spread words that its awesome.. These people are drawn in because of the greatness of the previous titles. I did not forget to read the post correctly, did you read mine correctly? Do you not see that I mention D1, D2, and war2? All of these games were wildly successful and built their reputation even more. Then comes SC and WoW, their reputation is propelled even further. Obviously their reputation varies person to person, but for me it is a combination of the quality of all of their games. Unfortunately you werent correct. D2 was released in 2000 while Starcraft came in 1998. Your assumption of D2 laying down the foundation (reputation) for Starcraft was wrong. D1 was successful but nowhere near the "legendary" level of Diablo2 and Starcraft: Brood War, same goes for Warcraft 2. Unfortunately, you continue to not read what I am saying. I am saying that D2 was big before the BW pro scene kicked in. Therefore, BW had no impact on D2. I did not say that D2 came out before SC. My assumption was that D2 was popular and wouldve been popular regardless of the state of BW. My argument in this thread is that people are placing way too huge of an emphasis on how BW (the korean scene in particular) effected blizzard.
I dont think what you are saying and your previous post matches.. But lets ignore that trivial detail, and agree to disagree for now. I dont think either will change their mind since there simply isnt much proof if at all as to how much popularity is derived from <insert product name>, its something that is rather hard to quantify.
But while you disagree, do respect the opinion that BW's responsible for a good amount of popularity Blizz is enjoying, and realise that we too have good reasons to believe so.
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On November 05 2010 20:22 ffreakk wrote:Show nested quote +On November 05 2010 20:15 TheRabidDeer wrote:On November 05 2010 19:36 ffreakk wrote:On November 05 2010 17:26 TheRabidDeer wrote:On November 05 2010 17:13 ffreakk wrote:On November 05 2010 16:52 TheRabidDeer wrote:On November 05 2010 16:34 Womwomwom wrote:On November 05 2010 16:21 TheRabidDeer wrote:On November 05 2010 16:11 We Are Here wrote:No, they do not. They owe their popularity to their games that they have created. People buy and play blizzard games because of the continued support and outstanding quality. It is their reputation, not korea. I dont even know how you could arrive at the conclusion that korea is responsible for blizzards success. by that logic, bw was big in korea cause of kespa and not boxer This doesnt even make sense. Korea is a hugely small fraction of blizzards success. Most of their sales are in the EU and US, and korea had no effect on sales in these countries. At all. I agree 4.5 million copies out of 9.5 million copies is a hugely small fraction. For BW in particular, yes korea is a lot of the sales. However, as I stated before, BW is not blizzard. Blizzard has 12 million people actively paying in WoW, D2 was in the top 10 game sales lists up to and including this year: http://www.vg247.com/2010/08/05/activision-blizzard-q2-financials-net-revenue-comes-in-at-967-million/Stop thinking that BW is the only game that blizzard makes, and you will realize this. A large amount of Blizzard's reputation was built up by Brood War I don't know how anyone can deny this. The only reason people look at Starcraft 2 and thought eSports from the get go is because of Brood War and their reputation for having the best balance team of all RTS developers is because of Brood War and the Korean scene. No, to you their reputation was built up by BW. For me, it was the combined effect of supporting their games, telling cool stories, and how awesome they all were. I loved diablo, D2, war2 (never played war1), sc, bw, and WoW. The only one that never really caught on for me was war3. The title, Starcraft, whether you like it or not, is directly connected to the Korean proscene. Anyone who doesn't know shit about gaming might still know about Starcraft as that game where little nerds can earn $100,000 on a TV channel dedicated to it. Yes, SC is quite synonymous with the korean pro scene, I have never and will not argue against that. In your haste for a counter-argument, did you forget to read his post properly? Do take note that he mentioned "reputation".. While sales figure might say this and that, they obviously fail to quantify reputation.. There are a few titles from which Blizz's reputation took off from which earn them the money for their next title.. Huge sales figure in the first few days, or even weeks of release are obviously not because the game was terrific, since almost nobody would have finished playing it to spread words that its awesome.. These people are drawn in because of the greatness of the previous titles. I did not forget to read the post correctly, did you read mine correctly? Do you not see that I mention D1, D2, and war2? All of these games were wildly successful and built their reputation even more. Then comes SC and WoW, their reputation is propelled even further. Obviously their reputation varies person to person, but for me it is a combination of the quality of all of their games. Unfortunately you werent correct. D2 was released in 2000 while Starcraft came in 1998. Your assumption of D2 laying down the foundation (reputation) for Starcraft was wrong. D1 was successful but nowhere near the "legendary" level of Diablo2 and Starcraft: Brood War, same goes for Warcraft 2. Unfortunately, you continue to not read what I am saying. I am saying that D2 was big before the BW pro scene kicked in. Therefore, BW had no impact on D2. I did not say that D2 came out before SC. My assumption was that D2 was popular and wouldve been popular regardless of the state of BW. My argument in this thread is that people are placing way too huge of an emphasis on how BW (the korean scene in particular) effected blizzard. I dont think what you are saying and your previous post matches.. But lets ignore that trivial detail, and agree to disagree for now. I dont think either will change their mind since there simply isnt much proof if at all as to how much popularity is derived from <insert product name>, its something that is rather hard to quantify. But while you disagree, do respect the opinion that BW's responsible for a good amount of popularity Blizz is enjoying, and realise that we too have good reasons to believe so.
Yes, BW does increase blizzards reputation. Nowhere do I state that it didnt. I do think that everybody here is overstating how much it has effected their reputation. I also think that people further overstate how much the pro scene in particular has effected their reputation. I mean, if we used the logic of everybody in this thread, then valve should be nobodies... and yet they are one of the best respected developers in the world because of their reputation with their games.
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Russian Federation4405 Posts
Yes, Diablo is big, no one denies. And they don't owe its popularity to anyone like korean proscene.
But lets cut you in half, you'll be happy?
And Blizzard is not itself as without Diablo/WoW, so without SC/WC3/SC2.
And I agree with those who say that this will inevitably turn out to be a wrong decision it the sense of market, too.
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On November 05 2010 20:31 TheRabidDeer wrote:Show nested quote +On November 05 2010 20:22 ffreakk wrote:On November 05 2010 20:15 TheRabidDeer wrote:On November 05 2010 19:36 ffreakk wrote:On November 05 2010 17:26 TheRabidDeer wrote:On November 05 2010 17:13 ffreakk wrote:On November 05 2010 16:52 TheRabidDeer wrote:On November 05 2010 16:34 Womwomwom wrote:On November 05 2010 16:21 TheRabidDeer wrote:On November 05 2010 16:11 We Are Here wrote:
[quote]by that logic, bw was big in korea cause of kespa and not boxer This doesnt even make sense. Korea is a hugely small fraction of blizzards success. Most of their sales are in the EU and US, and korea had no effect on sales in these countries. At all. I agree 4.5 million copies out of 9.5 million copies is a hugely small fraction. For BW in particular, yes korea is a lot of the sales. However, as I stated before, BW is not blizzard. Blizzard has 12 million people actively paying in WoW, D2 was in the top 10 game sales lists up to and including this year: http://www.vg247.com/2010/08/05/activision-blizzard-q2-financials-net-revenue-comes-in-at-967-million/Stop thinking that BW is the only game that blizzard makes, and you will realize this. A large amount of Blizzard's reputation was built up by Brood War I don't know how anyone can deny this. The only reason people look at Starcraft 2 and thought eSports from the get go is because of Brood War and their reputation for having the best balance team of all RTS developers is because of Brood War and the Korean scene. No, to you their reputation was built up by BW. For me, it was the combined effect of supporting their games, telling cool stories, and how awesome they all were. I loved diablo, D2, war2 (never played war1), sc, bw, and WoW. The only one that never really caught on for me was war3. The title, Starcraft, whether you like it or not, is directly connected to the Korean proscene. Anyone who doesn't know shit about gaming might still know about Starcraft as that game where little nerds can earn $100,000 on a TV channel dedicated to it. Yes, SC is quite synonymous with the korean pro scene, I have never and will not argue against that. In your haste for a counter-argument, did you forget to read his post properly? Do take note that he mentioned "reputation".. While sales figure might say this and that, they obviously fail to quantify reputation.. There are a few titles from which Blizz's reputation took off from which earn them the money for their next title.. Huge sales figure in the first few days, or even weeks of release are obviously not because the game was terrific, since almost nobody would have finished playing it to spread words that its awesome.. These people are drawn in because of the greatness of the previous titles. I did not forget to read the post correctly, did you read mine correctly? Do you not see that I mention D1, D2, and war2? All of these games were wildly successful and built their reputation even more. Then comes SC and WoW, their reputation is propelled even further. Obviously their reputation varies person to person, but for me it is a combination of the quality of all of their games. Unfortunately you werent correct. D2 was released in 2000 while Starcraft came in 1998. Your assumption of D2 laying down the foundation (reputation) for Starcraft was wrong. D1 was successful but nowhere near the "legendary" level of Diablo2 and Starcraft: Brood War, same goes for Warcraft 2. Unfortunately, you continue to not read what I am saying. I am saying that D2 was big before the BW pro scene kicked in. Therefore, BW had no impact on D2. I did not say that D2 came out before SC. My assumption was that D2 was popular and wouldve been popular regardless of the state of BW. My argument in this thread is that people are placing way too huge of an emphasis on how BW (the korean scene in particular) effected blizzard. I dont think what you are saying and your previous post matches.. But lets ignore that trivial detail, and agree to disagree for now. I dont think either will change their mind since there simply isnt much proof if at all as to how much popularity is derived from <insert product name>, its something that is rather hard to quantify. But while you disagree, do respect the opinion that BW's responsible for a good amount of popularity Blizz is enjoying, and realise that we too have good reasons to believe so. Yes, BW does increase blizzards reputation. Nowhere do I state that it didnt. I do think that everybody here is overstating how much it has effected their reputation. I also think that people further overstate how much the pro scene in particular has effected their reputation. I mean, if we used the logic of everybody in this thread, then valve should be nobodies... and yet they are one of the best respected developers in the world because of their reputation with their games.
Since you bring in valve have you ever see valve even with the release of CS source did any vigorous attempts to kill its previous game like cs 1.6 ?? Or even stop any person who was broadcasting the show ? Non I can't tell you valve made quality games be it half life 1998 and half life 2 . Now on the aspect of starcraft bw versus starcraft 2 there's a tremendous drop of quality in my opinion.
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Russian Federation4405 Posts
On November 05 2010 20:31 TheRabidDeer wrote:
Yes, BW does increase blizzards reputation. Nowhere do I state that it didnt. I do think that everybody here is overstating how much it has effected their reputation. I also think that people further overstate how much the pro scene in particular has effected their reputation. I mean, if we used the logic of everybody in this thread, then valve should be nobodies... and yet they are one of the best respected developers in the world because of their reputation with their games.
4,5 million copies, dude. 4.5 million of 9.5 overall.
And raised strategy genre to the competitive state. It means it gave impact on WC3 and SC2. Otherwise they would nowhere as popular. And now we have numbers, that are like a hint to us. If Korea sales are about 50% of world's, why the popularity over the world is not so contributed to Korea?
Lets not forget that the WC3 was also popular there. There were (or still are) pro teams and they helped the popularity.
They owe them their reputation. They owe them popularity of the strategic genre. StarCraft is a phenomenon. But it wouldn't be, and wouldn't lead to notability of other Blizz strategic games, if it wasn't for korean proscene.
I'm quite sure that IS ENOUGH to take HANDS OFF them.
Inhumanity is not so popular nowadays. We've had enough of it last century -___-
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On November 05 2010 20:45 Sawamura wrote:Show nested quote +On November 05 2010 20:31 TheRabidDeer wrote:On November 05 2010 20:22 ffreakk wrote:On November 05 2010 20:15 TheRabidDeer wrote:On November 05 2010 19:36 ffreakk wrote:On November 05 2010 17:26 TheRabidDeer wrote:On November 05 2010 17:13 ffreakk wrote:On November 05 2010 16:52 TheRabidDeer wrote:On November 05 2010 16:34 Womwomwom wrote:On November 05 2010 16:21 TheRabidDeer wrote:
[quote]
This doesnt even make sense. Korea is a hugely small fraction of blizzards success. Most of their sales are in the EU and US, and korea had no effect on sales in these countries. At all. I agree 4.5 million copies out of 9.5 million copies is a hugely small fraction. For BW in particular, yes korea is a lot of the sales. However, as I stated before, BW is not blizzard. Blizzard has 12 million people actively paying in WoW, D2 was in the top 10 game sales lists up to and including this year: http://www.vg247.com/2010/08/05/activision-blizzard-q2-financials-net-revenue-comes-in-at-967-million/Stop thinking that BW is the only game that blizzard makes, and you will realize this. A large amount of Blizzard's reputation was built up by Brood War I don't know how anyone can deny this. The only reason people look at Starcraft 2 and thought eSports from the get go is because of Brood War and their reputation for having the best balance team of all RTS developers is because of Brood War and the Korean scene. No, to you their reputation was built up by BW. For me, it was the combined effect of supporting their games, telling cool stories, and how awesome they all were. I loved diablo, D2, war2 (never played war1), sc, bw, and WoW. The only one that never really caught on for me was war3. The title, Starcraft, whether you like it or not, is directly connected to the Korean proscene. Anyone who doesn't know shit about gaming might still know about Starcraft as that game where little nerds can earn $100,000 on a TV channel dedicated to it. Yes, SC is quite synonymous with the korean pro scene, I have never and will not argue against that. In your haste for a counter-argument, did you forget to read his post properly? Do take note that he mentioned "reputation".. While sales figure might say this and that, they obviously fail to quantify reputation.. There are a few titles from which Blizz's reputation took off from which earn them the money for their next title.. Huge sales figure in the first few days, or even weeks of release are obviously not because the game was terrific, since almost nobody would have finished playing it to spread words that its awesome.. These people are drawn in because of the greatness of the previous titles. I did not forget to read the post correctly, did you read mine correctly? Do you not see that I mention D1, D2, and war2? All of these games were wildly successful and built their reputation even more. Then comes SC and WoW, their reputation is propelled even further. Obviously their reputation varies person to person, but for me it is a combination of the quality of all of their games. Unfortunately you werent correct. D2 was released in 2000 while Starcraft came in 1998. Your assumption of D2 laying down the foundation (reputation) for Starcraft was wrong. D1 was successful but nowhere near the "legendary" level of Diablo2 and Starcraft: Brood War, same goes for Warcraft 2. Unfortunately, you continue to not read what I am saying. I am saying that D2 was big before the BW pro scene kicked in. Therefore, BW had no impact on D2. I did not say that D2 came out before SC. My assumption was that D2 was popular and wouldve been popular regardless of the state of BW. My argument in this thread is that people are placing way too huge of an emphasis on how BW (the korean scene in particular) effected blizzard. I dont think what you are saying and your previous post matches.. But lets ignore that trivial detail, and agree to disagree for now. I dont think either will change their mind since there simply isnt much proof if at all as to how much popularity is derived from <insert product name>, its something that is rather hard to quantify. But while you disagree, do respect the opinion that BW's responsible for a good amount of popularity Blizz is enjoying, and realise that we too have good reasons to believe so. Yes, BW does increase blizzards reputation. Nowhere do I state that it didnt. I do think that everybody here is overstating how much it has effected their reputation. I also think that people further overstate how much the pro scene in particular has effected their reputation. I mean, if we used the logic of everybody in this thread, then valve should be nobodies... and yet they are one of the best respected developers in the world because of their reputation with their games. Since you bring in valve have you ever see valve even with the release of CS source did any vigorous attempts to kill its previous game like cs 1.6 ?? Or even stop any person who was broadcasting the show ? Non I can't tell you valve made quality games be it half life 1998 and half life 2 . Now on the aspect of starcraft bw versus starcraft 2 there's a tremendous drop of quality in my opinion.
Well, one thing that caused a huge uproar was when they put in-game advertising into CS 1.6 but not CS:S in 2007. They havent had to deal with broadcast/IP rights because nobody has tried to steal them away from them. If some company decided to sell broadcast rights for CS then you can bet your ass they would try to shut down whoever was trying to do it.
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EPT
