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ALLEYCAT BLUES49904 Posts
On November 08 2010 00:01 _Quasar_ wrote:
Please stop posting things like "do you say Blizz can't protect their intellectual property" and such things that are merely words. Yes they do can, but what part of SC popularity is really theirs? And do they not owe to Koreans their SC's popularity (that triggered VERY much of their games - WC3, SC2 and indirectly WoW)?
Without Koreans that would be merely good selling game, but not a long-runner, not for 12 mother freaking years. And therefore wouldn't allow Blizz to make money so much.
I mean, SC is good itself, but koreans contributed to it its popularity. And gaming culture was made by themselves, it's not Blizzard who did it. It was not "predestined" that they would do it - so its not Blizzard's action, it's theirs. And e-sports wasn't recognized as sports! Boxer and company had to fight their way through to prove that this IS true sports.
I just realised that I'm quoting BLiND-RawR without having read his post. :D Oops.
I don't mean Kespa is victim. I mean koreans are, and the best players especially. Who wouldn't like to see the predictable return of Bisu? To send zerg vs. him now seems like suicide. And his PvT looks suddenly decent too. Why not come back?
Yes, game is good, but to build gaming culture with a game that IS huge effort. And, to say honestly, not giving much direct and instant payback! Would Blizzard risk to do so? No, I think no. And koreans did.
And again: Blizzard does not request payment for SC. They try to replace it with a worse game that is SC2. And it won't last for long or bring legendary players - cos it's all only about money.
This is all bullshit ritorics. You all know that no one, including ActiBlizzard themselves (read several pages earlier) obey law to its fullest. Because law only says that persons CAN be sued for what they do. To sue them or not is an action of a man. Blizzard decided to do so, and I bet they shouldn't, because they do owe to Korea popularity and money. You say, that for what they do (broadcast games without license but drawing HUGE attention to it) they haven't already paid Blizzard to its fullest?! They have brought Blizzard tons of money for Starcraft 2 - more than anything else country. Their efforts of supporting it for TOO long - not Blizzard's - and the players' efforts too, to establish it - that's what earned Blizzard the money they now have for SC2 that is arguably balanced, arguably good, etc.
Blizzard themselves just wouldn't support that. If they could, why didn't they? They were greedy to invest money in it or what?!
Now let's them not say that they are the reason to such a long living of SC. They aren't. They could be because the game is truly good. But they didn't.
you don't know that for sure..
You again assume that Blizzard is going to destroy everything and leave the progamers to rot or move on or move to SC2(which I can assume is what Blizzard wants).See the thing is negotiations are going on not for some PR reasons like,"oh well, now that SC2 is out lets kill BW but we'll make it look like we don't really want to kill BW" its a negotiation for legal co-existence of both BW and Sc2,I don't agree with the decisions they have made so far,but this is the result that both KeSPA and Blizzard wants.
oh and progamers should speak up without the interference of KeSPA.
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Russian Federation4405 Posts
Yes. But Jaedong spoke, as one of the popular and enough mature progamers. Did they hear him? I suppose no. -___-
Maybe next, Bisu should? x_x He seems to be an intelligent person with ability to feel and think. And he already said about the strange atmosphere in progaming. Maybe him?
And again, even if Acti-Blizz don't just kill SC... This is nonetheless unfair. I explained why Koreans already have paid Blizz for the use of this game to the fullest. They didn't do it themselves, all these efforts to establish e-sports - although they could.
And you say someone's getting rich, yes? If all that simple why didn't BLIZZARD go, organize esports and get rich? Why not them???
So, I think they just took it for granted, and now say "we don't owe you anything". That's unfair! Understand what I mean? And everyone here - do you understand? T_T
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ALLEYCAT BLUES49904 Posts
On November 08 2010 01:17 _Quasar_ wrote:
Yes. But Jaedong spoke, as one of the popular and enough mature progamers. Did they hear him? I suppose no. -___-
Maybe next, Bisu should? x_x He seems to be an intelligent person with ability to feel and think. And he already said about the strange atmosphere in progaming. Maybe him?
And again, even if Acti-Blizz don't just kill SC... This is nonetheless unfair. I explained why Koreans already have paid Blizz for the use of this game to the fullest. They didn't do it themselves, all these efforts to establish e-sports - although they could.
And you say someone's getting rich, yes? If all that simple why didn't BLIZZARD go, organize esports and get rich? Why not them???
So, I think they just took it for granted, and now say "we don't owe you anything". That's unfair! Understand what I mean? And everyone here - do you understand? T_T
Jaedong spoke...under the influence of KeSPA...He only said what they wanted him to say,but that wouldn't make much of a difference anyways.
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Russian Federation4405 Posts
No I think he spoke about what he thought, isn't it O_o Only partially that could be KeSPA's. Didn't he say that the progamers feel confused... That must be his own feeling not kespas. *_*
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Russian Federation4405 Posts
And for those who think that trying to "close" SC makes sense...
Did you see the recent matches at Proleague? Did you see the constant work of strategic thought that is by not means over? Did you see both Jaedong and RorO, and then even Killer, who all lost, but tried to bring a 3 hatch before pool into a standard of ZvT and find out to what extent it can be used? Did you also see the wraiths use knocking at the door of modern play too, many wraiths, willing to prove that Terran too, has its "Muta"? Did you see that revival of old Yellow-style by Zero, a style that all ofo a sudden appeared to almost directly counter the modern Flash-like terran builds? And the "revival" of Bisu who suddenly regained his strength and seems ready to rock again, and bring new Protoss builds? And sudden Protoss stomp over Terran that seemed to invincible with the Flash's vs.P morale - and again the need for Terran to find counters, play smart - and maybe again complete the circle: return to some BoxeR legacy??
If you didn't witness that - please don't say anything on StarCraft being dead or alive. It's alive, you just didn't see it.
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I guess all publicity is good PR for Activision "We Heart Esport" Blizzard.
Enjoy the drama folks, this law suit will be more entertaining than jersey shore.
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Stupid for Activision to do this. Why ask for a sum that is obviously not agreeable for the Koreans?
It's not like they havent been broadcasting for over 10 years.
Blizzard should know that fan's devotion to their products are transient, and that if someone makes a better one, theres really nothing binding them to Blizzard. Their newest game SC2 isn't amazing, groundbreaking like SC, and really isn't great for spectators (some people blame the maps, etc)...
Seems that the won't be the major player... Theres nothing really binding people to Blizzard, but the quality of their individual products. (though they might think there is.)
Activision back in the Nintendo 64 days used to have a reputation for shortcomings, and it seems they are falling into their stereotype again, antagonizing their most important player base.
This plus B.net2 is all just grand shortcomings... Putting your global economic and datamining meta-corporate strategy into action isnt as desirable for the average gamer, imo, as just a simple chat room and game interface.
They can cram it down our throats, yeah, but if something better, simpler, and more honest comes along, they may have more competition than they expected.
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On November 04 2010 21:14 konadora wrote:Show nested quote +Paul Sams, Chief Operating Officer of Blizzard, said 'We asked OGN to either acquire the legal right to broadcast or stop the process of the league, but all we got in return was the already planned schedule of new OSL. This only meant that they'd go forward without our consent.' He also said 'We strongly believe that OSL and GSL can co-exist, and we wish the best with the OGN programs. However, it is more important that we protect our rights, and it's a shame that we have to sort this out in such a way.' Blizzard disgusts me
Agreed.
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Thanks for the effort of translation
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I think SC2 is terrible from a spectator point of view. Units are clastered together. Blizzard knows that if they can't make any money broadcasting the games. They will make the game play better at the expense spectating.
I am not sure if blizzard is doing the right thing when it comes to sueing OGN. its like a tv station trying to broadcast the world cup without the consent of Fifa. Now we have to distinguish the fact that BW client installed on OGN computers are like a soccer ball? cause anyone can broadcast playing soccer ball. It is when its hard to differentiate. Is BW a soccer ball that belongs to everyone or world cup tornament that belongs to fifa?
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On November 08 2010 15:08 Eternal Obilivion wrote:
I think SC2 is terrible from a spectator point of view. Units are clastered together. Blizzard knows that if they can't make any money broadcasting the games. They will make the game play better at the expense spectating.
I am not sure if blizzard is doing the right thing when it comes to sueing OGN. its like a tv station trying to broadcast the world cup without the consent of Fifa. Now we have to distinguish the fact that BW client installed on OGN computers are like a soccer ball? cause anyone can broadcast playing soccer ball. It is when its hard to differentiate. Is BW a soccer ball that belongs to everyone or world cup tornament that belongs to fifa?
It is more like BW is the stadium and sport. Where KeSPA is selling stadium seats for the sport even though its not their stadium.
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On November 08 2010 15:25 TheRabidDeer wrote:Show nested quote +On November 08 2010 15:08 Eternal Obilivion wrote:
I think SC2 is terrible from a spectator point of view. Units are clastered together. Blizzard knows that if they can't make any money broadcasting the games. They will make the game play better at the expense spectating.
I am not sure if blizzard is doing the right thing when it comes to sueing OGN. its like a tv station trying to broadcast the world cup without the consent of Fifa. Now we have to distinguish the fact that BW client installed on OGN computers are like a soccer ball? cause anyone can broadcast playing soccer ball. It is when its hard to differentiate. Is BW a soccer ball that belongs to everyone or world cup tornament that belongs to fifa? It is more like BW is the stadium and sport. Where KeSPA is selling stadium seats for the sport even though its not their stadium.
No, KeSPA and Co. created the e-sports scene for Starcraft. They built the stadium for a sport that Blizzard created. Blizzard watched them build the stadium for ten years and even attended a few times before deciding to sue them.
Anyway, to everyone who is saying Starcraft is Blizzard's IP... you are absolutely right. But the e-sports scene of it is a whole different story and it's not as clear-cut as many of you make it out to be.
First, let's start more locally with US copyright laws. Even by US standards, the law isn't on necessarily on Blizzard's side. Under the concept of "fair use" from the Copyright Act of 1976, KeSPA could argue that the broadcasting is purely for commenting purposes, which aligns perfectly with them being a NPO.
Korea has similar rulings:
"Article 29(Public Performance and Broadcasting for Non-profit Purposes) (1) It shall be permissible to perform publicly or broadcast a work already being made public for non-profit purposes and without charging any fees to audience, spectators or third persons provided that the performers concerned are not paid any remuneration for such performances. (2) Commercial phonograms or cinematographic works may be reproduced and played for the public, if no admission fee is charged to audience or spectators, except the cases as prescribed by the Presidential Decree."
As far as I know, the broadcasting companies are not charging anyone as all finances are from sponsorships by other companies and tournament prizes are given out by the sponsors rather than MBC/OGN.
In conclusion, you can say Starcraft is Blizzard's IP, but stop saying they're protecting their rights by shutting down the broadcasting of it because... that has yet to be determined.
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On November 08 2010 16:06 MayorITC wrote:Show nested quote +On November 08 2010 15:25 TheRabidDeer wrote:On November 08 2010 15:08 Eternal Obilivion wrote:
I think SC2 is terrible from a spectator point of view. Units are clastered together. Blizzard knows that if they can't make any money broadcasting the games. They will make the game play better at the expense spectating.
I am not sure if blizzard is doing the right thing when it comes to sueing OGN. its like a tv station trying to broadcast the world cup without the consent of Fifa. Now we have to distinguish the fact that BW client installed on OGN computers are like a soccer ball? cause anyone can broadcast playing soccer ball. It is when its hard to differentiate. Is BW a soccer ball that belongs to everyone or world cup tornament that belongs to fifa? It is more like BW is the stadium and sport. Where KeSPA is selling stadium seats for the sport even though its not their stadium. No, KeSPA and Co. created the e-sports scene for Starcraft. They built the stadium for a sport that Blizzard created. Blizzard watched them build the stadium for ten years and even attended a few times before deciding to sue them.
They only decided to sue once KeSPA started to sell the broadcast rights for the sport that they did not own. Blizzard was fine with everything that they were doing until 2007, then they overstepped their bounds and Blizzard got them for it. Let me restate that comment to make more sense
The stadium is the broadcast
The sport is BW
Blizzard created the sport and owns the stadium, but KeSPA is selling the seats in the stadium to watch the sport. The sport itself is relatively free reign, anybody can play it. The only issue is when somebody comes in and tries to sell something that wasnt theirs in the first place. Hopefully this makes more sense.
First, let's start more locally with US copyright laws. Even by US standards, the law isn't on necessarily on Blizzard's side. Under the concept of "fair use" from the Copyright Act of 1976, KeSPA could argue that the broadcasting is purely for commenting purposes, which aligns perfectly with them being a NPO.
Fair use doesnt entitle them to sell the broadcast. It would be fine if it was free, but since it has a commercial purpose then it doesnt fall under those terms.
As far as I know, the broadcasting companies are not charging anyone as all finances are from sponsorships by other companies.
KeSPA was demanding fees to broadcast, the broadcasting companies are paying KeSPA. This is the whole issue (afaik)
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On November 08 2010 16:17 TheRabidDeer wrote:Show nested quote +On November 08 2010 16:06 MayorITC wrote:On November 08 2010 15:25 TheRabidDeer wrote:On November 08 2010 15:08 Eternal Obilivion wrote:
I think SC2 is terrible from a spectator point of view. Units are clastered together. Blizzard knows that if they can't make any money broadcasting the games. They will make the game play better at the expense spectating.
I am not sure if blizzard is doing the right thing when it comes to sueing OGN. its like a tv station trying to broadcast the world cup without the consent of Fifa. Now we have to distinguish the fact that BW client installed on OGN computers are like a soccer ball? cause anyone can broadcast playing soccer ball. It is when its hard to differentiate. Is BW a soccer ball that belongs to everyone or world cup tornament that belongs to fifa? It is more like BW is the stadium and sport. Where KeSPA is selling stadium seats for the sport even though its not their stadium. No, KeSPA and Co. created the e-sports scene for Starcraft. They built the stadium for a sport that Blizzard created. Blizzard watched them build the stadium for ten years and even attended a few times before deciding to sue them. They only decided to sue once KeSPA started to sell the broadcast rights for the sport that they did not own. Blizzard was fine with everything that they were doing until 2007, then they overstepped their bounds and Blizzard got them for it. Let me restate that comment to make more sense The stadium is the broadcast The sport is BW Blizzard created the sport and owns the stadium, but KeSPA is selling the seats in the stadium to watch the sport. The sport itself is relatively free reign, anybody can play it. The only issue is when somebody comes in and tries to sell something that wasnt theirs in the first place. Hopefully this makes more sense. Show nested quote +First, let's start more locally with US copyright laws. Even by US standards, the law isn't on necessarily on Blizzard's side. Under the concept of "fair use" from the Copyright Act of 1976, KeSPA could argue that the broadcasting is purely for commenting purposes, which aligns perfectly with them being a NPO. Fair use doesnt entitle them to sell the broadcast. It would be fine if it was free, but since it has a commercial purpose then it doesnt fall under those terms. Show nested quote +As far as I know, the broadcasting companies are not charging anyone as all finances are from sponsorships by other companies. KeSPA was demanding fees to broadcast, the broadcasting companies are paying KeSPA. This is the whole issue (afaik)
Your entire point would make more sense if Blizzard was suing KeSPA. If anyone has legal grounds to sue, it would be OGN/MBC/Blizzard suing KeSPA then.
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No, because MBC and OGN complied and agreed to KeSPA's demand to pay for broadcasting fees. In law, you can file a lawsuit against either party or both.
EDIT- I'm not sure exactly if they are suing for that deal that MBC/OGN had with KeSPA. It's more like they're suing for the current MSL and OSL, because they did not get broadcasting sublicenses from Gretech.
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On November 08 2010 01:22 BLinD-RawR wrote:Show nested quote +On November 08 2010 01:17 _Quasar_ wrote:
Yes. But Jaedong spoke, as one of the popular and enough mature progamers. Did they hear him? I suppose no. -___-
Maybe next, Bisu should? x_x He seems to be an intelligent person with ability to feel and think. And he already said about the strange atmosphere in progaming. Maybe him?
And again, even if Acti-Blizz don't just kill SC... This is nonetheless unfair. I explained why Koreans already have paid Blizz for the use of this game to the fullest. They didn't do it themselves, all these efforts to establish e-sports - although they could.
And you say someone's getting rich, yes? If all that simple why didn't BLIZZARD go, organize esports and get rich? Why not them???
So, I think they just took it for granted, and now say "we don't owe you anything". That's unfair! Understand what I mean? And everyone here - do you understand? T_T Jaedong spoke...under the influence of KeSPA...He only said what they wanted him to say,but that wouldn't make much of a difference anyways.
You got no proof that he was influenced under of kespa or what so ever I have seen you posting around and all of them lead to you defacing kespa ,ogn and mbc . Purposely I guess you like to jump in the sc2 band wagon than go ahead and enjoy your ultimate game . This thread has become a freaking pile of hate and some of you may say its arguing and may I ask you one question does it change anything ? People dont change easily no matter how hard you argue here some people (trolls) will post offensive stuff to put off broodwar and sc2 . But what ever feel free to continue your crusade .
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well i dont pay adobe when i post some photoshop video tutorials.... i dont get it.
why is blizzard so concerned? they are far away from getting broke with the money from WoW and stuff yet they fight for every penny. and the players and watchers suffer in the end.
thanks blizz... for trying to mafia-control everything. b.net 2.0 included.
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Russian Federation4405 Posts
Stop comparing it to football (soccer). Soccer has no copyright owner - so we can't say that anyone owes its popularity to, lets say, Brazilians. No one does because soccer isn't subject to copyright.
And SC is subject to it, and therefore you can make money of it. Therefore you can owe something in the sense of common morale to someone who helped you with gaining profit with this. And at least not attack them.
OGN should be left alone, because otherwise those people to whom they owe it will suffer.
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On November 08 2010 19:08 xanatas wrote:
well i dont pay adobe when i post some photoshop video tutorials.... i dont get it.
why is blizzard so concerned? they are far away from getting broke with the money from WoW and stuff yet they fight for every penny. and the players and watchers suffer in the end.
thanks blizz... for trying to mafia-control everything. b.net 2.0 included.
If you are caught selling photoshop stuff with a student copy or a pirated copy you would pay adobe. There is a reason the software costs like $1000, and that reason is because you are given full creative control.
Also if they dont protect their software then anybody could step up and do this to them. If KeSPA were hackers then you would be cheering them on... and its the same deal here... they are protecting their own stuff.
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Russian Federation4405 Posts
"Anyone" didn't contribute to them so much as Koreans...
for example if someone cracks SC2 or so - they should sue them.
But not the korean pro scene. Their influence on success of these games is FAR too big.
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EPT
