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On October 16 2010 21:10 kataa wrote:
I'm kinda confused, this seemed more like damage control to me than them giving their go ahead to the proleague. If anything the whole 'the money we receive will go to a scholarship ect" seems like they're trying to prempt the negative press they're going to get from trying to shut down the proleague.
Maybe I misread it, but I seem to be taking away something totally different from this than 90% of the people in the thread.
If they shut down proleague, then they will look bad no matter what their stance is.
Sure, they might have the IP rights to shut down proleague. Will it be justified? That I don't know. Will people like it? No.
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Some important points to think about:
1. There seems to be an assumption that many people here have that GOMtv will always hold the rights to distribute tournament licenses. For this reason they have to act in a way that is aligned with the wants of Blizzard to ensure this stays in good relation in the future time. Blizzard has repeatedly stated that they want the IP honored in one form or another. So moving forward with the intent to build IP acknowledgement as a precedent is the most important point to be made right now. So far this seems to still be their strategy.
2. This isn't about gaining short-term gains, it's about creating the mentality that's required to profit on it. At this time if you get an entire population to think "I have to pay for what once was free". Only after that public acceptance is set can you truly profit on it. You need a precedent set first.
3. The tournament fees for 1 dollar and broadcasting fee for higher amounts is because there are more StarCraft tournaments in Korean than just those you see online. Be it in PCbangs, at public places, amateur leagues, etc, I'm sure there is a plethora of people who feel relieved that they can still continue their personal tournaments for the mere cost of 1 won. This is also part of the community that they're probably catering to. This would be in order to set a precedent and build up the mentality of "if I want to do a tournament, I will need to pay the licensee".
4. Next, of all the terms it's obvious the payment plan is not what the concern was regarding the negociations, it's the fact that the co-licensee (Gretech) would have access to all the funding and control of the logo placement, etc and would have to turn around and give it to the tournament funder. Note how Gretech specifically states "we would not abuse it"... which shows it has the potential for abuse, even if it never happened. At this point I don't believe it's a case of IP rights at the root, but concern about every dime of the sponsor money being "funneled through" Gretech, even if they keep their honor regarding it and never abuse this ability.
All this, of course, is my personal speculation. But I figured my thoughts (be them right or wrong) would help steer the direction of this conversation, please requote if you appreciated it, even if refuting my thoughts cause I'm curious about all sides.
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On October 16 2010 22:02 supernovamaniac wrote:
Sure, they might have the IP rights to shut down proleague. Will it be justified? That I don't know. Will people like it? No.
QFT. I wasn't worried so much about the death of the PL, as much as I was worried about the massive drama and controversy swirling around this. If they shut down PL, then they're essentially going to get exiled from SK
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On October 16 2010 22:08 Infested_Noodle wrote:Show nested quote +On October 16 2010 22:02 supernovamaniac wrote:
Sure, they might have the IP rights to shut down proleague. Will it be justified? That I don't know. Will people like it? No. QFT. I wasn't worried so much about the death of the PL, as much as I was worried about the massive drama and controversy swirling around this. If they shut down PL, then they're essentially going to get exiled from SK
If Gretech doesn't want to kill BW scene, then they will have to keep it going
Eventually, SC and SC2 will depend on each other. If BW scene gradually dies and fans move over to SC2, then it's a good thing. But if BW dies suddenly due to lawsuit, fans will take positions, BW fans will never move on, and bad publicity will kill both leagues.
Which one do you want? Competition but promising future, or no competition but no future?
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I'm afraid but I have to say : there are few misunderstandings about this issue - Gretech is preparing legal actions and is appealing to the fans that it is inevitable, neccesary action.
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스타크래프트는 공공재가 아닙니다. 이것은 블리자드가 시간과 자원 및 인력을 투자한 결과물이며, 곰TV는 한국에서의 블리자드 공인 파트너로서 국내 스타크래프트 리그가 합법적인 방식으로 지속되도록 국내 파트너와 계약을 진행하고자 많은 노력을 기울여 왔습니다.
Crude translation :
Starcraft is NOT AN PUBLIC GOOD. It resulted from resources and manpowers that blizzard had invested, and GomTV, as the official partner of blizzard entertainment, has taken enourmous efforts to make contracts with the domestic partners, for that make it sure SC:BW leagues is legal.
곰TV는 최악의 상황을 피하기 위해 아직도 주어진 시간 내에 합의에 이를 수 있도록 최선의 노력을 기울이고 있습니다. 그러나 저희의 이러한 노력에도 불구하고 최악의 상황이 발생한다면, 앞으로 저희가 취할 수 밖에 없는 후속 조치에 대해 이해해주시기를 부탁 드립니다.
Crude translation :
GomTV is doing its best efforts to achieve mutual agreements in the given time limit in order to avoid the worst scenario. But if, regardless of our efforts, the worst happens, please understand that we will be forced to take 'extra action'.
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On October 16 2010 21:06 imperator-xy wrote:Show nested quote +On October 16 2010 20:30 Elroi wrote:On October 16 2010 20:16 imperator-xy wrote:On October 16 2010 19:08 Elroi wrote:
Besides, how does letting only "serious broadcasters" (ie the ones that can pay money to Gretech) broadcast SC leagues strengthen the e-sports scene? I mean minorleague, zotac etc etc didn't exactly damage the BW scene... If they can't have their league because the competition is to strong, it's best for e-sports if they die. Hypocrites. you didnt understand that part EVERYONE can make a tournament basically for free (1 won which is under 0,01€) while you have to pay 100 million won (about 90 000$) to broadcast a tournament on tv. this is to allow amateur tournaments for everyone (pc band owners or something like that), but at the same time having a hurdle that has to be taken to show that your professional enough to create a decent broadcasted tournament. That's what I meant, with these rules tournaments like Zotac (atleast how it was organized in BW) and minorleague won't happen. Why don't let anyone broadcast? - bad tournaments will die by them selves when they can't attract audience and sponsors. I bet they are just afraid that exactly that is going to happen to them. Very generous of them to let people have their own tournaments in pc bangs etc. Really, very generous.  hm? zotac and minor league arent broadcasted on tv, so they only have to pay 1 won
It sais broadcast in the article, not televised. I would say that the TSL was broadcast even though it wasn't on television. And I thought that minorleague actually was televised in Korea.
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It is quite obvious that there will be lawsuits with application for an injunction stopping the Starleague from being broadcast
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On October 16 2010 22:26 Enigmatics wrote:
It is quite obvious that there will be lawsuits with application for an injunction stopping the Starleague from being broadcast
Right, it's so annoying people acting like gomtv are total nice guys and Kespa are evil villians. Gomtv are playing hardball and will shut down the proleague completely if they don't get what they want. The rest is corporate spin and shouldn't be taken at face value.
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Man now i'll sound like i'm bandwagoning the obvious by saying that the people in this thread who took this as some kind of indication that Proleague has been given the OK are going to be very disappointed. There's really nothing even in the original post's translation that implies anything along those lines.
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GomTV stated, 'Each tournaments will cost 1 won (ed. That's not a mistranslation, it really said 1 won), and broadcasting fee is 100 million won'.
Wait, How much is one won again? ITs probably about a penny I guess.
Well, Kespa and Gom can now stop being douchebags to each other. Everyone's content now. 
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^ Read Enigmatics' post above yours.
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On October 16 2010 22:17 Elroi wrote:Show nested quote +On October 16 2010 21:06 imperator-xy wrote:On October 16 2010 20:30 Elroi wrote:On October 16 2010 20:16 imperator-xy wrote:On October 16 2010 19:08 Elroi wrote:
Besides, how does letting only "serious broadcasters" (ie the ones that can pay money to Gretech) broadcast SC leagues strengthen the e-sports scene? I mean minorleague, zotac etc etc didn't exactly damage the BW scene... If they can't have their league because the competition is to strong, it's best for e-sports if they die. Hypocrites. you didnt understand that part EVERYONE can make a tournament basically for free (1 won which is under 0,01€) while you have to pay 100 million won (about 90 000$) to broadcast a tournament on tv. this is to allow amateur tournaments for everyone (pc band owners or something like that), but at the same time having a hurdle that has to be taken to show that your professional enough to create a decent broadcasted tournament. That's what I meant, with these rules tournaments like Zotac (atleast how it was organized in BW) and minorleague won't happen. Why don't let anyone broadcast? - bad tournaments will die by them selves when they can't attract audience and sponsors. I bet they are just afraid that exactly that is going to happen to them. Very generous of them to let people have their own tournaments in pc bangs etc. Really, very generous. hm? zotac and minor league arent broadcasted on tv, so they only have to pay 1 won It sais broadcast in the article, not televised. I would say that the TSL was broadcast even though it wasn't on television. And I thought that minorleague actually was televised in Korea.
OGN and MBC seem to have that 100 mio Won broadcast license, so they can broadcast as much Starcraft as they want (or is it only Proleague?). I'm undecided, if this all sounds better or worse than how it was before. What I do remember is, I wanted to watch some more GomTV Classic Seasons with Tasteless casting, but KeSPA locked up their players.
Other than that, don't forget that this business is only in South Korea. Rest of the world is managed by Blizzard themselves (that's regarding your TSL argument). About minor league: there was something about KeSPA teams firing all their B-teamers?
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Maybe Enigmatics' translation should be added to the OP too.
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On October 16 2010 22:17 Elroi wrote:Show nested quote +On October 16 2010 21:06 imperator-xy wrote:On October 16 2010 20:30 Elroi wrote:On October 16 2010 20:16 imperator-xy wrote:On October 16 2010 19:08 Elroi wrote:
Besides, how does letting only "serious broadcasters" (ie the ones that can pay money to Gretech) broadcast SC leagues strengthen the e-sports scene? I mean minorleague, zotac etc etc didn't exactly damage the BW scene... If they can't have their league because the competition is to strong, it's best for e-sports if they die. Hypocrites. you didnt understand that part EVERYONE can make a tournament basically for free (1 won which is under 0,01€) while you have to pay 100 million won (about 90 000$) to broadcast a tournament on tv. this is to allow amateur tournaments for everyone (pc band owners or something like that), but at the same time having a hurdle that has to be taken to show that your professional enough to create a decent broadcasted tournament. That's what I meant, with these rules tournaments like Zotac (atleast how it was organized in BW) and minorleague won't happen. Why don't let anyone broadcast? - bad tournaments will die by them selves when they can't attract audience and sponsors. I bet they are just afraid that exactly that is going to happen to them. Very generous of them to let people have their own tournaments in pc bangs etc. Really, very generous. hm? zotac and minor league arent broadcasted on tv, so they only have to pay 1 won It sais broadcast in the article, not televised. I would say that the TSL was broadcast even though it wasn't on television. And I thought that minorleague actually was televised in Korea.
the TSL doesnt matter because its not in korea
as far as i know dream league (name of minor league got changed i think) wasnt broadcasted
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Of course this doen't mean that everything is fine. But atleast I take it as a very positive article: apparently Gretech can't/doesn't dare take on KeSPA in a court (about Proleague) - which they said they would. Maybe they are also just bluffing with their attempts to kill the starleagues.
On October 16 2010 22:48 Ropid wrote:Show nested quote +On October 16 2010 22:17 Elroi wrote:On October 16 2010 21:06 imperator-xy wrote:On October 16 2010 20:30 Elroi wrote:On October 16 2010 20:16 imperator-xy wrote:On October 16 2010 19:08 Elroi wrote:
Besides, how does letting only "serious broadcasters" (ie the ones that can pay money to Gretech) broadcast SC leagues strengthen the e-sports scene? I mean minorleague, zotac etc etc didn't exactly damage the BW scene... If they can't have their league because the competition is to strong, it's best for e-sports if they die. Hypocrites. you didnt understand that part EVERYONE can make a tournament basically for free (1 won which is under 0,01€) while you have to pay 100 million won (about 90 000$) to broadcast a tournament on tv. this is to allow amateur tournaments for everyone (pc band owners or something like that), but at the same time having a hurdle that has to be taken to show that your professional enough to create a decent broadcasted tournament. That's what I meant, with these rules tournaments like Zotac (atleast how it was organized in BW) and minorleague won't happen. Why don't let anyone broadcast? - bad tournaments will die by them selves when they can't attract audience and sponsors. I bet they are just afraid that exactly that is going to happen to them. Very generous of them to let people have their own tournaments in pc bangs etc. Really, very generous. hm? zotac and minor league arent broadcasted on tv, so they only have to pay 1 won It sais broadcast in the article, not televised. I would say that the TSL was broadcast even though it wasn't on television. And I thought that minorleague actually was televised in Korea. OGN and MBC seem to have that 100 mio Won broadcast license, so they can broadcast as much Starcraft as they want (or is it only Proleague?). I'm undecided, if this all sounds better or worse than how it was before. What I do remember is, I wanted to watch some more GomTV Classic Seasons with Tasteless casting, but KeSPA locked up their players. Other than that, don't forget that this business is only in South Korea. Rest of the world is managed by Blizzard themselves (that's regarding your TSL argument). About minor league: there was something about KeSPA teams firing all their B-teamers?
Does Gretech only have the IP rights for SK? Well, anyway nothing stops Blizzard or whatever company they use as a decoy to terrorise the foreigner scene as much as Gretech does it in Korea.
And no, pretty sure there are still B-teams.
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As long as Proleague lives, there will be individual tournaments. Proleague is the key, we're saved!
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On October 16 2010 16:55 Selith wrote:Show nested quote +On October 16 2010 16:53 Ancestral wrote:
Blizzard should never have negotiated with Gretech in the first place, they're idiots. This sounds like a step in the right direction but the problem is Gretech has exclusive rights anyway, which is a total absurdity. Blizzard wanted to negotiate with KeSPA first. KeSPA said "lolno".
More like blizzard wanted to enslave KeSPA but had no luck doing so.
(I know that post is couple pages old, but still had to respond...)
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At this point I can't see why Gretech and KeSPA don't just have open negotiations. They both claim to have the best intentions yet are completely unable to reach an agreement. Either one or both sides are talking out their ass or they should be able to reach an agreement relatively easily.
As I see it, KeSPA already offered the 300 million WON (if that information was correct) and all Gretech wants is for them to acknowledge that Blizzard and Gretech has the IP rights and perhaps apologize for planning and starting Proleague without reaching an agreement and everything should be fine and dandy.
I say: live television broadcast of the two parties negotiating. Then we'll really know if all parties have the best intentions. I really, really wish that I could enjoy both SC:BW and SC2 in the future. The new attention that SC2 and GSL is bringing to eSports could even attract more viewers and help up the prize pool for SC:BW to match that of the GSL slightly better. Oh and maybe OGN and MBC might start an official payed live stream for all of us who wish to show our support for eSports becoming as legitimate a passtime as football or soccer.
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Estonia4504 Posts
On October 16 2010 23:25 Novac wrote:
At this point I can't see why Gretech and KeSPA don't just have open negotiations. They both claim to have the best intentions yet are completely unable to reach an agreement. Either one or both sides are talking out their ass or they should be able to reach an agreement relatively easily.
It could have something to do with the intended outrageousness of one party's demands.
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If PL, OSL, and MSL are good to go, I'm happy then. After all the bad rep that Gretech has been getting, I'm surprised they still want to struggle with Kespa.
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EPT
