EPTBlizzard on 1v1 Balancing and the new patch - Page 38
| Forum Index > Community News and Headlines |
|
251
United States1401 Posts
| ||
|
emythrel
United Kingdom2599 Posts
Toss have to pylon first, zerg need creep to build and all their units have to spawn at a hatch. I've been proxy gated enough to know that pylon first isn't hindering toss doing cheese, so why should it stop terran? If you really want to proxy rax then just drop a supply in ur base while your SCV is on its way to ur proxy location...... logic? I personally think all cheese builds suck (even if they are effective) and as a player won't cry over them going, as a spectator they are fun to watch but also frustrating when you watch an online tourney and someone like TLO or Dimaga go out in an early round due to gettin cheesed. Hell TLo even got cheesed to go out of GSL...... thats gotta be the worst way to go out imo ;p | ||
|
Deleted User 3420
24492 Posts
On October 08 2010 03:37 iEchoic wrote: Reaper and hellion openings aren't going to do it, and we know that an unpressured Zerg is an incredibly hard Zerg to stop. while im not too sure i like the changes (primarily the supply depot first change) - what exactly about this will stop hellions from being very effective to put pressure on z early game? they'll just go from being INSANELY effective to "an effective way to pressure as an opening" hellion into banshee/expo is still going to be strong as shit.. | ||
|
Fredbrik
Denmark28 Posts
| ||
|
SilentDrop
Brazil29 Posts
Increasing roach range is a HUGE buff, even its increased to only 4 or 3.5. But i like all the changes overrall | ||
Zelniq
United States7166 Posts
On October 08 2010 01:46 Liquid`Jinro wrote: WHAT. THE. FUCK? Fuck my life, all hellion and reaper builds just died? So this leaves what, camp like a whore for 30 minutes with planetary fortresses? Fun times. uh what? how did hellion builds die? uh it's not like hellion drops or blue flame hellion drops ever depended on roach range being low? sure it helps a little bit for the drop but doesnt really matter for roasting drones also even w/o drops, hellions are still going to be sick at sprinting for drone lines and roasting them, and still getting away. they just cant be used to kite roaches anymore, which really wasnt the scariest part about hellions anyway nor their purpose. roaches still move slow as hell w/o speed upgrade and hellions dont require any upgrade to move at rocket speeds either .. it's kind of like speed vultures in sc, sure they cannot kite hydras due to hydra range but what does it matter when your vultures run right by em and go for your mineral line and not to mention many players rely on speedlings and so those situations arent even effected whatsoever | ||
|
Marl
United States694 Posts
warlocks(reapers) own face for a month, so make them crappy for the next month. And about the depot before rax change, they should just make it so no units can deal damage for the first 15 minutes of the game so everything is fair. | ||
|
iEchoic
United States1776 Posts
On October 08 2010 03:45 travis wrote: while im not too sure i like the changes (primarily the supply depot first change) - what exactly about this will stop hellions from being very effective to put pressure on z early game? they'll just go from being INSANELY effective to "an effective way to pressure as an opening" The thing about hellion opening is that it's vulnerable to roach counter-pressure. Currently you have a timeframe where you can hold this off by microing the hellions to kill the roaches as they move across the map, which is the deterrent against this pressure. If hellions get hit when they try to take shots at the roaches (because of range buff), this will no longer be possible, and you'll get rolled by a roach push. See TLO vs Losira GSL Game 1 for an example. | ||
|
cerebralz
United States443 Posts
I could do without the roach range buff, but them still being slow as hell, i don't think it will be really game breaking. People have to remember that 2 base zerg is equal if not behind 1 base terran with mules. Early pressure still forces zerg to make zerglings or spines instead of drones. Blue hellions still wipe a drone line in a matter of seconds. I think the only people who will be mad are the proxy rax bunker rush people. Which you can still do btw, but just have to wait for another set of production before attacking. Fungal growth change should go without saying. I think it was a bug to begin with that stalkers can still blink while under FG. | ||
|
MuuMuuKnight
Thailand107 Posts
On October 08 2010 03:40 asianinvasian wrote: zvp i don't think will be effected to much, immortals can pop out pretty fast(let alone stalkers) and you can scout the roach push. If roaches become so effective early game vs toss, why makes anything else? There won't be much variety in this mu with +range on roaches I believe. | ||
|
Toxigen
United States390 Posts
That being said, I really don't see the need to nerf reapers further -- it'll end up being a unit that nobody uses. The increase on roach range is more than enough to discourage 5RR. Reapers aren't an issue for Protoss if he gets that chrono'ed stalker out. If anything, nitro packs on the factory is the most reasonable, but making Terrans build a supply depot BEFORE a barracks is unnecessary and absurd. It forces the Terran to open the game like a Protoss would, and I (for one) enjoy the fact that all 3 races are so different. I still feel like hydralisks could use a survivability or speed-off-creep buff (but I'd prefer the former over the latter), but I feel like some of these changes are steps in the right direction. I might be biased since hydralisks have been my favorite SC unit since BW and it annoys me that they've taken a backseat to everything in the Zerg arsenal in ZvT (there's never a situation in which using hydras in ZvT is the best choice available). | ||
|
Amui
Canada10567 Posts
As a toss though, I'm worried about what roaches with extra range can do to my forgefe SD >barracks is questionable Nitro packs for reapers on factory is stupid IMO, since toss dealt with reapers relatively easily, and zerg should have a way to deal with reapers well. | ||
|
Black Gun
Germany4482 Posts
one additional reaper nerf sounds reasonable, but wtf is this supply before rax shit? i never use a rax before supply build anyway, but still this is just stupid and wrong. fungal preventing blink is also nice and needed. certain zerg tech buildings having more strength is also a welcome change imho. all in all i like this patch, with the exception of the supply before rax thing. i dont mind the reaper becoming completely unused in 1v1 tbh, never liked or used them anyway  | ||
|
yups
Denmark116 Posts
| ||
|
Shikyo
Finland33997 Posts
On October 08 2010 03:47 iEchoic wrote: The thing about hellion opening is that it's vulnerable to roach counter-pressure. Currently you have a timeframe where you can hold this off by microing the hellions to kill the roaches as they move across the map, which is the deterrent against this pressure. If hellions get hit when they try to take shots at the roaches (because of range buff), this will no longer be possible, and you'll get rolled by a roach push. See TLO vs Losira GSL Game 1 for an example. TLO though does hellions -> cc -> 2 more factories -> more hellions I don't think it'd be that much of a stretch to just... transition faster. | ||
|
Licmyobelisk
Philippines3682 Posts
On October 08 2010 03:40 Geo.Rion wrote: how does the rax-factory or the factory-starport requirement work? you put them on each other? Thanks for this, feel dumb but at least I'm enlightened  I guess only opening I can do now is Siege FE or Thor drops. Hellions are pretty useless to harass now with the roach range buff. hhhmmm.. might switch to zerg now  (at least MorroW is doing the right thing) What's IdrA's take on this? | ||
|
Raigeki
Hong Kong207 Posts
| ||
|
kojinshugi
Estonia2559 Posts
EDIT: On October 08 2010 03:49 RickyKo wrote: this is really messed up, now protoss has to make a pylon, terran has to make a supply depot, but zerg can still 6 pool w/o making another overlord? It's not really a big deal. Both terran and toss can deal with 6 pool really easily (at least in 1v1). | ||
|
Quasimoto3000
United States471 Posts
On October 08 2010 01:16 Woony wrote: The Barracks are going to require a Supply Depot, which will impact a lot of early terran reaper pushes. I strongly dislike this change... Do you think this will make early proxy raxing insignificant? | ||
|
Mjolnir
912 Posts
Man, these don't make sense to me and I'd love if someone would explain the reasoning behind this: In an effort to help Zerg vs. harass (like Reapers which were mentioned specifically) they're improving Roach range and buffing buildings. At the same time they're making Reapers less effective by requiring Factory for speed upgrade and removing the ability to build a Barracks first. Isn't this reducing the efficacy of Reapers two-fold? Why not just pick one of those options? On top of which, the pros seem to have managed to come up with strategies that nullify the Reaper harassing anyhow. As much as I dig Zerg (after Random), that seems a bit over-the-top in terms of "balancing." I thought Reapers were just fine after the 5 sec. build time increase. | ||
| ||
