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On October 08 2010 03:19 prototype. wrote:Show nested quote +On October 08 2010 03:15 MagisterMan wrote:On October 08 2010 03:12 dekuschrub wrote:
now zerg can just 12 hatch every fucking game unchecked
Well in BW zergs would pretty much 12 hatch every game safely. Sure there could be an occasional BBS but a BBS in BW was much more of an allin than a fast reaper rush in SC2. Still think the supple/barracks change is unnecessery. Zerg could not 12hatch every game safely. Terran doesn't have to BBS to beat a 12hatch. 1 proxy rax counters 12hatch and it's not even an all-in.
1 proxy rax would be a 50/50 vs a zerg who 12 hatches. Pretty much comes down to micro there, compared to a 8 rax reaper rush that would beat a 14hatch pretty much 95% of the times, and you can get an orbital pretty fast too, which boosts your economy a lot.
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On October 08 2010 03:18 Alzadar wrote:
Barracks requiring a Supply Depot seems really silly to me, and removes a bit of diversity from the game.
Should Spawning Pools require an Overlord?
Zerg start with an overlord???
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this is retarded.. roach range?? now they can kill an scv repairing a rax..
supply depot before raxx? WTF this kills all early marine and reaper pushes in early game making the zerg to just happily 15 hatch all the time -_-"
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On October 08 2010 03:18 Alzadar wrote:
Barracks requiring a Supply Depot seems really silly to me, and removes a bit of diversity from the game.
Should Spawning Pools require an Overlord?
we start with an overlord, and considering most Z openers (outside of a cheese) start building at 13-16 supply, you have a second overlord out anyway... so it wouldn't matter
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Why don't they just take out reaper altogether, they're absolutely useless now.
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On October 08 2010 03:20 bokeevboke wrote:
I think depot->rax change is a consequence of zealot nerf. I have seen many games where terran opens with 7 rax, builds bunker at protoss base. Its almost impossible to defend with one zealot and probes.
I have seen many games where protoss opens with proxy 2gate. its almost impossible to defend with one marine and scvs
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The supply before reaper change would be fine if they cut the tech lab as a requirement as well. The first reaper comes out slower, but making more of them will be much faster.
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On October 08 2010 03:21 Musiq wrote:Show nested quote +On October 08 2010 03:18 Shikyo wrote:On October 08 2010 03:15 iEchoic wrote:On October 08 2010 03:10 gREIFOCs wrote:On October 08 2010 03:03 Woony wrote:Maybe they don't want Terran to be the "needs to be in the opponents face all the time to be effective" race anymore? Could be, I don't know but I think it's ridiculous, people want something, they get it and now they cry about it. Shows how you can't take the communitys QQ as a measure for balancing.
I think the "Terran must harrass to win" is plain wrong. They have great static defenses, they have wall-ins, they have PFs, they have mules. They can take a easy expand and trough mules get an advantage in minerals. Also their units are more cost effective and have choices towards a highly movile army (MMM is the most mobile thing in the game) and a great mech to stand in ground until you decide to attack. So... Who's that if they don't attack all the time they get behind? I would understand that if a 200/200 army would be less effective than a 200/200 zerg army. But that's not the case. Terran must harass to win, this is the truth. It's been well known for a long time that T lategame is worse than P lategame (terran has no counter to protoss HT/zealots). I'm sure I'm missing something obvious but... why do pre-igniter Hellions not work? Try getting Hellions in a ball of Colossus with range + high templar backed up by stalkers
And also craptons of Zealots? I'd say that Marauder-hellion-ghost-tank-viking-battlecruiser-raven is pretty good vs that.
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I'm sure I'm missing something obvious but... why do pre-igniter Hellions not work? [/QUOTE]
Try getting Hellions in a ball of Colossus with range + high templar backed up by stalkers[/QUOTE]
That's a lot of gas for the protoss...
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Really, really, really like most of the changes.
Really, really think the factory for nitropacks is retarded...
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On October 08 2010 01:21 GTR wrote:Show nested quote +The Barracks are going to require a Supply Depot, which will impact a lot of early terran reaper pushes. This is stupid.
Really stupid
If their maps weren't so retarded this wouldn't be necessary. Come on Steppes of war is such a great map/ Sarcasm
Reaper speed nerf was needed. Reapers will still be decent if they allow 9 rax. But they killed it. Now theirs no Terran cheese build.
RIP BBS
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On October 08 2010 03:22 divertiti wrote:
Why don't they just take out reaper altogether, they're absolutely useless now.
Kinda like Hydralisk?
Reapers are still awesome early game scouts
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On October 08 2010 03:22 Bitters wrote:Show nested quote +On October 08 2010 03:18 Alzadar wrote:
Barracks requiring a Supply Depot seems really silly to me, and removes a bit of diversity from the game.
Should Spawning Pools require an Overlord? we start with an overlord, and considering most Z openers (outside of a cheese) start building at 13-16 supply, you have a second overlord out anyway... so it wouldn't matter
considering most T openers (outside of a cheese) start building at 12 supply, you should have a supply depot out anyway... so it wouldn't matter.
but that's what everyone's complaining about. the option to cheese.
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6 pool isn't a problem. Standard 12 rax works even on SoW. I've done it plenty of times w/ early 2nd depot to complete wall. Just bring some SCVs to repair until marine pops out. Get a practice partner if you can't do it right.
Blizzard should not be bothering with any matchup data below diamond. I'm in diamond and I definitely don't think I'm good enough to have balance decisions based around my gameplay.
Also, people need to stop thinking that all rax before depot openings are "cheeses". 10 rax reaper is a pretty standard opening (as is 10 rax marauder vs toss). You usually end up in an even or better position. Even if you don't, you're not far enough behind to lose right away. There's still room for a comeback. Early aggression is also a tool for fast expo. A lot of my games end up 30 minute affairs based off rax first openings.
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If these changes go through I wonder how much it will change protoss openings against terran. Imagine if P suddenly didn't have to worry about a myriad of proxy rax plays and could ignore reapers until they saw a factory.
You wouldn't "need" to chrono out that first stalker in order to protect yourself against reaper cheese
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I just read Browder's post and man did it make me feel good.
Thank you Dustin *chest pump*, and thank you blizz.
gg
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On October 08 2010 03:14 monkxly wrote:
i'm z, and i'm saying that roach range increase is OP, protoss fe is very difficult now
Yea its quite hard to catch up with zerg in eco. Toss has to guess if its muta or hydra. expo muta usally comes to toss base around 10 mins, and by the time scouting happens its to late. so tos has to guess either throw down robo or 2 stargates,if you throw down stargates and no muta big setback which protoss already has vs zerg,and with the roach buff grabing a expo is gonna be more troublesome and make toss get behind. The building nerf is also gonna make it hard to snipe expos and put toss further in the gutter.
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I hate the idea of barracks requiring a depot.
It's important that every race has some sort of cheese option. I think this will imbalance zerg > terran tbh, there is no punishment possible for hatching first.
User was warned for this post
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Wow, get ready for mass zerglings + mass roaches plays > zealots + stalkers. Hard times for Protoss.
But making the Terran require a depot first will give Protoss an easier time with the Terran rushes.
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Reapers are the new carriers.
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EPT
