EPTBlizzard on 1v1 Balancing and the new patch - Page 20
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Toadily
United States837 Posts
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Zeroes
United States1102 Posts
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gotterdammerung
Austria17 Posts
On October 08 2010 02:18 jamvng wrote: Hellions DON'T counter roaches even with the range advantage. They do so little damage to roaches. BUt the ability to kite roaches enables a good player who can multi task and micro to still be able to use hellions against roaches. It awards skill, and allows for more variety in the game. Roaches will still win against Hellions easily, but hellions can at least play a role against small numbers of roaches. It doesn't really force terran into late game, maurauders can still kite zealots early game and still own stalkers. It just makes it so that zealots aren't completely useless early game. An early push with a few maurauders or marines is so strong early game against protoss. I'm a terran player in diamond btw, so I'm not being biased, just saying what I think about the matchup. I do agree that protoss is strong against terran in late game, but I'm just talking about early game. Terran is too strong early game and protosss is strong late game. yeah im a 1100 diamond terran player as well, and terran isnt that strong early game. all the toss needs is a sentry and it will stop early terran aggression. every toss opens either 2 gate or 4 gate so its not a problem. when i try to pressure early against toss, my army gets cut in half and i lose half of it, putting the protoss in the lead. This nerf will force terran to go to the dreaded late game where toss has lots of options and sick macro replenish | ||
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Cranberries
Wales567 Posts
On October 08 2010 02:19 Liquid`Jinro wrote: I should note that I DONT agree with the original post that suggested void rays should require a fleet beacon - I simply disagreed with the guy who suggested you have to be bad to find void rays difficult. I should have been more clear, my comments were completely unrelated to the patch, as it has not chanaged anything in this regard. Then I apologise for trying to start some silly argument.  But seriously, these changes are fine. | ||
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heishe
Germany2284 Posts
So you like random coinflipping and guessing games instead of actual skill-dependent games? Because that's exactly what it is when you proxy, or when you 6-pool etc. It's just gamble which either wins you the game outright, or loses you the game outright, with little to no margin of error in between. It's not just a "risk-taking" strategy like going for a little more econ instead of army which may give you a small disadvantage if it fails, it's a 99.99% definitive All-in which fails in every case except the ones that you're trying to luck-counter (and call metagame what you want, in the end it's just luck and nothing more, since the "i know that you know that i know" game can be continued endlessly). Most importantly, those luck-dependent builds give wins to players who just don't deserve them. It's a good thing super-early proxying from Terran is gone for good. | ||
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Phurion
United States8 Posts
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AndyBear
Canada132 Posts
The Barracks are going to require a Supply Depot, which will impact a lot of early terran reaper pushes. Woha woh woh! I'm Terran and I never reaper rush, but I do like to do 9 rax, 10 depo to help stop 8 pools and rushes. This is a huge nerf to my playstyle  (((. | ||
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ROOTheognis
United States4482 Posts
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MorroW
Sweden3522 Posts
expect zerg to win alot more once this comes lol the rax nerf is so stupid i cant believe it, its like saying zerg must make a overlord before their first spawning pool, so unbelievable slacky way to remove cheeses | ||
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Chronicle
161 Posts
On October 08 2010 02:19 Liquid`Jinro wrote: Any comment on my opinion of VR being the "Flying Reaper?". | ||
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Chriamon
United States886 Posts
On October 08 2010 01:22 Mrbustanut wrote: Wow, 5RR is dead. Roach range increase holy crap! I don't agree with the depot requirement for Rax though. Wait, what? The 5 Roach Rush will be stronger than ever, unless you are talking about 5 barracks reaper, in which case, who refers to it as 5RR? Also, I haven't seen a single 5 barracks reaper or even 3 barracks reaper since the 5s reaper nerf. | ||
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AssuredVacancy
United States1167 Posts
On October 08 2010 02:22 AndyBear wrote: Woha woh woh! I'm Terran and I never reaper rush, but I do like to do 9 rax, 10 depo to help stop 8 pools and rushes. This is a huge nerf to my playstyle (((.12 rax stops a 6 pool on steppes if you micro well. | ||
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Bitters
Canada303 Posts
all it shows is how well the match making system is doing. tournament wins are a better metric in that you know the players are all near the top in skill level, but in the wide skill range of diamond, you can have good zerg players beating average terrans, but losing to the good terrans, yet keeping the MU win percentage near even. | ||
Liquid`Jinro
Sweden33723 Posts
On October 08 2010 02:17 Cranberries wrote: If you're defending against a 6 pool you, as a Protoss, need to cut probes in order to wall off with a second pylon completely. Just like you could wall off with a second depot. Besides, a 6 pool is all in. Defend it and you win. Also- Marines will be better because you can repair Terran buildings and they're built faster while being cheaper than Zealots. People, Terrans, seem to be whining that they're going to have to play macro against a race which is balanced against playing macro? I honestly can't see the upset people feel with any of these changes. If you cant be aggressive against zerg, and put pressure on them, you are - on a lot of maps/positions - forced into playing a ridiculously boring turtle style where you simply camp until the zerg commits suicide out of boredom. But once again Im not commenting patch specifically here - Im just saying that if terran were to lose all options of aggression the matchup would probably be broken in zergs favour UNLESS terran plays a very specific and very boring (for both players) style. Note that pressure doesnt have to be a rax before supply type pressure, but if the new roach change ruins a lot of other terran openings, well that could be bad for the matchup. | ||
snowdrift
France2061 Posts
On October 08 2010 02:21 heishe wrote: Wow, so many people in here against the depot->barracks change. So you like random coinflipping and guessing games instead of actual skill-dependent games? Because that's exactly what it is when you proxy, or when you 6-pool etc. It's just gamble which either wins you the game outright, or loses you the game outright, with little to no margin of error in between. It's not just a "risk-taking" strategy like going for a little more econ instead of army which may give you a small disadvantage if it fails, it's a 99.99% definitive All-in which fails in every case except the ones that you're trying to luck-counter (and call metagame what you want, in the end it's just luck and nothing more, since the "i know that you know that i know" game can be continued endlessly) The threat of all-ins and cheese is necessary to force players to be honest. Otherwise everyone can go for the greediest opening every game. | ||
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MonkeyKungFu
Norway154 Posts
Depot first, yes, early bunker/proxy rush will be weaker, but holding a 6 pool will go just fines if you scout it and account for it as dangerous, where as now, terran just laugh when they see a 6 pool. | ||
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Litess
Bulgaria40 Posts
On October 08 2010 02:17 On_Slaught wrote: Why do people keep saying the supply change is bad? It isn't going to change 99% of builds and the few it does were probably cheesy shit anyway. Were you really not going to build a wall against zerg? No? Then you deserve to get punished. Welcome to what Protoss has always had to deal with. People are blowing this change WAY out of proportion. As a zerg who actually thinks terran is op, i don't really like the change. It kills an option you have and these kind of changes will stop some interesting game developments.(or not, maybe it's full potential has been realized atm and it's op) I really like the roach range, it's hard to imagine how good roaches would be if they had +1 range, but i'm sure it would help a lot. The reaper change seems a bit harsh. Reapers with late nitropacks aren't gonna be scary at all. | ||
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Salteador Neo
Andorra5591 Posts
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Twistacles
Canada1327 Posts
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[Agony]x90
United States853 Posts
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