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Blizzard on 1v1 Balancing and the new patch - Page 18

Forum Index > Community News and Headlines
1732 CommentsPost a Reply
Prev 1 16 17 18 19 20 87 Next
Ocedic
Profile Joined April 2010
United States1808 Posts
October 07 2010 17:14 GMT
#341
Well, the early game just got a whole lot more boring. I was looking forward to seeing some superb Boxer micro with reapers.
accaris
Profile Joined May 2010
98 Posts
October 07 2010 17:14 GMT
#342
Think cannon rushing and/or void ray cheese is contributing to higher Protoss wins in lower leagues? Or maybe because Protoss macro is easier to master?
DoMo.
Profile Joined August 2010
Australia20 Posts
October 07 2010 17:14 GMT
#343
On October 08 2010 02:12 prototype. wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 08 2010 02:06 DoMo. wrote:


"People need to understand the Roach range change is a subtle counter to the Pylon cannon wall in that Zergs will constantly face. The pylon cannon wall in is uncounterable until Hydralisks, and puts the Zerg very, very far behind because they need the expansion due to the way Larvae management works. "

People need to understand that having a drone at your ramp patrolling isn't hard =)

Is that quoted from blizzard? This is ridiculous if this is the reason why they want to increase roach range.


No, this was quoted from some noob who doesn't know the simplest counter to that strat lol
Gentso
Profile Joined July 2010
United States2218 Posts
October 07 2010 17:15 GMT
#344
Why is blizzard releasing Matchmaking win %'s when the system is DESIGNED to keep you at 50% anyway?
sleepingdog
Profile Joined August 2008
Austria6145 Posts
October 07 2010 17:15 GMT
#345
On October 08 2010 02:04 Liquid`Jinro wrote:
The build I described happens to be one of the most popular semi-allins on the korean server -.-

3 void rays + 3 warpgate push, if you dont have vikings and/or a bunch of bunkers you will die. You stim once, he force fields your ramp and retreats, comes back when your marines have 10 less hp and repeats.

Im not even saying its imbalanced, but its good.


yeah, I've seen it in a lot of replays too, NEXGenius used it a lot in his games vs Maka/Ensnare

still, I firmly believe that void rays will eventually change the terran meta-game leading to a more balanced match-up; I've killed countless terrans who overcommited early with void rays - same goes for terrans who teched too fast (banshee-tech without reactor-marines comes to my mind);

since the terran can prepare against this build without being completely vulnerable vs "normal" protoss play, maybe we will see a standard "anti-void ray" opening by terran while no protoss will go for them;
kinda like protoss opens with early robo to counter early cloaked banshees that never come, compromising their tech-options
"You see....YOU SEE..." © 2010 Sen
gotterdammerung
Profile Joined October 2010
Austria17 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-10-07 17:16:01
October 07 2010 17:15 GMT
#346
On October 08 2010 02:12 Cranberries wrote:
Terran is going to have trouble against 6 pools, really? Let's talk timings! Protoss' way of dealing with 6 pool is by walling off completely with a Forge or Gateway. From this we can see that:

Pylon: 25 seconds
Gateway: 65 seconds (requires Pylon)
Total: 90 seconds

Supply Depot: 30 seconds
Barracks: 60 seconds
Total 90 seconds

If Protoss can defend against 6 pool, Terran can defend against it too. Even if it is on Steppes of War.
I already said it isnt overpowered, TWICE. But you called it "useless" and it really, REALLY isnt.

Even if you scout it, its not like every single terran build has a good way of defending it - and you know what, there are a LOT of places buildings can be hidden.

Yes, you can scout - but if you get unlucky you wont find it in time or he will kill your scout. On some maps it can be easy, on others not so much. The fact is, this build is very good or it wouldnt be used by so many good protoss players.

If you dont trust me, you can just ask TLO and he will tell you the same - its a strong build.

[/QUOTE]

wow hello EARTH TO POSTER lol... you cant wall off with just a barracks and depot
glhf.tv
Patriot.dlk
Profile Blog Joined October 2004
Sweden5462 Posts
October 07 2010 17:15 GMT
#347
If they do this I'm switching race to protoss because I think winning tvz is hard enough as it is. It feels like blizzard forgot that they all ready nerfed terran a lot.
Lonyo
Profile Blog Joined December 2009
United Kingdom3884 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-10-07 17:17:37
October 07 2010 17:15 GMT
#348
On October 08 2010 02:12 Cranberries wrote:
Terran is going to have trouble against 6 pools, really? Let's talk timings! Protoss' way of dealing with 6 pool is by walling off completely with a Forge or Gateway. From this we can see that:

Pylon: 25 seconds
Gateway: 65 seconds (requires Pylon)
Total: 90 seconds

Supply Depot: 30 seconds
Barracks: 60 seconds
Total 90 seconds

If Protoss can defend against 6 pool, Terran can defend against it too. Even if it is on Steppes of War.
I already said it isnt overpowered, TWICE. But you called it "useless" and it really, REALLY isnt.

Even if you scout it, its not like every single terran build has a good way of defending it - and you know what, there are a LOT of places buildings can be hidden.

Yes, you can scout - but if you get unlucky you wont find it in time or he will kill your scout. On some maps it can be easy, on others not so much. The fact is, this build is very good or it wouldnt be used by so many good protoss players.

If you dont trust me, you can just ask TLO and he will tell you the same - its a strong build.



Except Protoss gets a pylon earlier by default due to supply.
Also like said below, Terran needs to pull workers to do that, so -1 worker for the 90 seconds.
HOLY CHECK!
Zlasher
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
United States9129 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-10-07 17:17:49
October 07 2010 17:15 GMT
#349
Show nested quote +
On October 08 2010 02:12 Cranberries wrote:
Terran is going to have trouble against 6 pools, really? Let's talk timings! Protoss' way of dealing with 6 pool is by walling off completely with a Forge or Gateway. From this we can see that:

Pylon: 25 seconds
Gateway: 65 seconds (requires Pylon)
Total: 90 seconds

Supply Depot: 30 seconds
Barracks: 60 seconds
Total 90 seconds

If Protoss can defend against 6 pool, Terran can defend against it too. Even if it is on Steppes of War.
I already said it isnt overpowered, TWICE. But you called it "useless" and it really, REALLY isnt.

Even if you scout it, its not like every single terran build has a good way of defending it - and you know what, there are a LOT of places buildings can be hidden.

Yes, you can scout - but if you get unlucky you wont find it in time or he will kill your scout. On some maps it can be easy, on others not so much. The fact is, this build is very good or it wouldnt be used by so many good protoss players.

If you dont trust me, you can just ask TLO and he will tell you the same - its a strong build.

Okay, let's call the build strong.

What's the problem? They didn't nerf Marines, Vikings, Anti-Air Turrets. They didn't buff Void Rays, or creation times. If you can defend a Proxy Void Ray at the moment you'll be able to do it after the patch. If there is a more subtle problem, I cannot see it- please tell me.



Seriously? Maybe its because terran has to lose 1/8th of their fucking income when they CAN'T chronoboost workers out in order to defend, unlike protoss.
Follow me: www.twitter.com/zlasher
NATO
Profile Joined April 2010
United States459 Posts
October 07 2010 17:15 GMT
#350
Win % in Diamond (accounting for player skill)

49.6% win rate for Protoss when fighting Terran.

52.8% win rate for Protoss when fighting Zerg.

49.6% win rate for Terran when fighting Zerg.


Then they go on to say that Terran is having a problem vs toss and zerg is having a problem vs Terran. This does not follow. Also their changes are idiot - they're removing options from the game, making the game more boring. Might make it easier to get the 40% win ratio TvZ blizzard is looking for, but this is not going to make the game better. Options = strategery.
Boblhead
Profile Joined August 2010
United States2577 Posts
October 07 2010 17:16 GMT
#351
I'm fine with roach range, but its stupid that we have to build a supply depot, what are we fcking toss were we have to place the barracks in the range of supply depots next........
Alaron
Profile Joined August 2010
United States225 Posts
October 07 2010 17:16 GMT
#352
Fan of most changes. The depot and factory changes are pretty bad and I disagree with them.

More notably the depot one.
Bommes
Profile Joined June 2010
Germany1226 Posts
October 07 2010 17:17 GMT
#353
Just silently think about the roach range buff before you start to curse blizzard, even if you don't agree with it. It might make the roach a very cost-efficient unit even far into the lategame, but it finally is a unit that can SCARE the shit out of an opponent in some parts of the game. Right now zerg pretty much only has options to cheesy all-in or to barely alive until their economy kicks in and they roll over their opponents (most likely with ultralisks or banelings), but buffing roaches which makes them especially better in bigger numbers (as more of them can attack) is huge. Big midgame roach attacks with burrow to get them into position are now a real threat and not some kind of gimmick which can lead to a small advantage but usually just destroys your own lategame plans. The FEAR that big roach attacks give other players most likely, that's what will make zerg so much better and so much more fun to play, which will eventually lead to more interesting games and less qqing.

I'm really looking forward to these changes as a terran player, even though I'm not really agreeing with the supply depot barracks change. I like the reaper change because they had a big impact on teamgames, they will still be viable there imo, but they didn't really have a purpose in 1v1 and were just one more opening against zerg, which is pretty unnecessary as there are enough other good terran openings that are viable.
Aikin
Profile Joined April 2010
Austria532 Posts
October 07 2010 17:17 GMT
#354
Protoss should still be able to cannon vs roach, just likely needs a 2 space gap now instead of 1. Might need to do some practicality testing on this one though.


Well if you cannon 2 space behind a gateway roaches with increased range should totally be able to just hit the gateway.
[A]dmiral Bulldog | Naniwa | [A]lliance
Banger
Profile Joined September 2010
Canada11 Posts
October 07 2010 17:17 GMT
#355
Using Ladder stats as information for balance is not a good idea. The reason is that if you are a 1000 Diamond Zerg you are probably better mechanically then a 1000 Diamond Protoss or Terran just because Zerg is harder to play (as admitted by the developers themselves). The ladder system is designed to get you to winning 50% of your games so looking at the ladder is pointless because Zergs will just end up playing lower skilled T and P and will change the win rate back to around 50%. The exception to that is Protoss in lower leagues because Protoss is so damn easy to learn to play decently (4 Warp Gate Push).
Cranberries
Profile Joined July 2010
Wales567 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-10-07 17:19:17
October 07 2010 17:17 GMT
#356
If you're defending against a 6 pool you, as a Protoss, need to cut probes in order to wall off with a second pylon completely. Just like you could wall off with a second depot. Besides, a 6 pool is all in. Defend it and you win. Also- Marines will be better because you can repair Terran buildings and they're built faster while being cheaper than Zealots.

People, Terrans, seem to be whining that they're going to have to play macro against a race which is balanced against playing macro? I honestly can't see the upset people feel with any of these changes.
On_Slaught
Profile Joined August 2008
United States12190 Posts
October 07 2010 17:17 GMT
#357
Why do people keep saying the supply change is bad? It isn't going to change 99% of builds and the few it does were probably cheesy shit anyway. Were you really not going to build a wall against zerg? No? Then you deserve to get punished.

Welcome to what Protoss has always had to deal with.

People are blowing this change WAY out of proportion.
FabledIntegral
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
United States9232 Posts
October 07 2010 17:18 GMT
#358
MASSIVE overbuff for Zerg.
Rodiel
Profile Joined August 2006
France573 Posts
October 07 2010 17:18 GMT
#359
good change imo, the roach will now can be used in many new way
im not sure about the reaper nerf 2 nerf for 1 unit is big
Boblhead
Profile Joined August 2010
United States2577 Posts
October 07 2010 17:18 GMT
#360
I love blizzard, its almost like their game wow, nerf this nerf that omg buff that nerf this nerf that, SC2 will become just like wow were everything gets nerfed because lower players complain
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