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Blizzard on 1v1 Balancing and the new patch - Page 17

Forum Index > Community News and Headlines
1732 CommentsPost a Reply
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SmoKim
Profile Joined March 2010
Denmark10305 Posts
October 07 2010 17:11 GMT
#321
i would prefer Hydra move buff over Roach range buff, other than that it seems pretty good

poor Mods </3
"LOL I have 202 supply right now (3 minutes later)..."LOL NOW I HAVE 220 SUPPLY SUP?!?!?" - Mondragon
DoMo.
Profile Joined August 2010
Australia20 Posts
October 07 2010 17:11 GMT
#322
On October 08 2010 02:07 gotterdammerung wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 08 2010 01:58 Barook wrote:
I predict a Psi-Storm nerf for the next patch, based on that statement. Storm is the reason why Protoss have an advantage against Terran in the late game.

Maybe something like 80 damage over 5 instead of 4 seconds (20 DPS --> 16 DPS).

Everything else would be retarded as T has already an advantage in the early game thanks to Marauders.


Well colossus and storm are both equally as effective, colossus might be better as it is preferred to storm by korean pros.. so nerfing just storm wont fix it.

we need to see some sort of colossus nerf, maybe reduced range. also the warp gates are sick, protoss can rebuild an army even faster than they could in sc1. Also archon warp is sick, it happens fast and toss can drop 6 storms then make an archon and they finish super fast.

we need to see zealot nerf, HT nerf, colossus nerf, archon nerf, and perhaps get rid of the warp gates. I dont see why they are needed, in BW toss had a macro advantage and even in sc2 without warp gates, toss still has a higher gateway/warpgate count than the terran has barracks.



Your either trolling or incredibly idiotic... you want protoss to have no way to beat terran? lol
Liquid`Jinro
Profile Blog Joined September 2002
Sweden33719 Posts
October 07 2010 17:11 GMT
#323
On October 08 2010 02:06 Cranberries wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 08 2010 02:04 Liquid`Jinro wrote:
On October 08 2010 01:59 Cranberries wrote:
On October 08 2010 01:56 Liquid`Jinro wrote:
On October 08 2010 01:51 DoMo. wrote:
On October 08 2010 01:29 flyinfart wrote:
It would be nice if they made void ray require a fleet beacon. Proxy void ray is ridiculous, especially on maps like LT. Otherwise, I can agree with most of their changes. Though, 6pooling/other cheese is going to become way more devastating to terran.


i lol'd, you bad?

Proxy void ray can be completely retarded when they hide it until they have 3 and you are unable to scout him properly, or scout him incorrectly.

Not unbeatable, just stupid because if you dont prepare specifically for it, you die really hard. There are prob some terran equivalents of this of course.

Void Rays suck against Terran. Getting 3 Void Rays allows you to get at least 15 Marines, and 15 Marines with Stimpack active win against 3 Void Rays- charged or uncharged.

People need to understand the Roach range change is a subtle counter to the Pylon cannon wall in that Zergs will constantly face. The pylon cannon wall in is uncounterable until Hydralisks, and puts the Zerg very, very far behind because they need the expansion due to the way Larvae management works.

The build I described happens to be one of the most popular semi-allins on the korean server -.-

Maybe you should scout around the entire map? If you lose to a building you didn't scout, isn't that your fault? When IdrA lost to his opponent in the GSL because he didn't scout the hidden Nexus, he didn't say it was overpowered- he pretty much agreed it was his own mistake. Or perhaps Terran shouldn't need to scout?

I already said it isnt overpowered, TWICE. But you called it "useless" and it really, REALLY isnt.

Even if you scout it, its not like every single terran build has a good way of defending it - and you know what, there are a LOT of places buildings can be hidden.

Yes, you can scout - but if you get unlucky you wont find it in time or he will kill your scout. On some maps it can be easy, on others not so much. The fact is, this build is very good or it wouldnt be used by so many good protoss players.

If you dont trust me, you can just ask TLO and he will tell you the same - its a strong build.
Moderatortell the guy that interplanatar interaction is pivotal to terrans variety of optionitudals in the pre-midgame preperatories as well as the protosstinal deterriggation of elite zergling strikes - Stimey n | Formerly FrozenArbiter
slained
Profile Blog Joined October 2006
Canada966 Posts
October 07 2010 17:11 GMT
#324
I think the roach range upgrade is reallly really huge. It basically allows 0 reaper usage, even further usage vs slow zealots.
theqat
Profile Blog Joined March 2008
United States2856 Posts
October 07 2010 17:11 GMT
#325
On October 08 2010 02:10 Boblhead wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 08 2010 02:08 jamvng wrote:
On October 08 2010 02:03 mucker wrote:
As a zerg I think this is too many changes. The roach range alone is huge and will change the game quite a bit. I'd rather they just implement that and let us see how it plays out.

The fungal/blink... not sure I like this. I always considered the real issue in ZvP to be hydra speed off creep. This change feels too arbitrary.

Barracks requires supply is dogshit. It reduces race differences and restricts gameplay too much. I think upping the tech lab cost and build time would be better.

Nitro isn't the upgrade that needs to be pushed up the tech tree, concussive shells is.


Agreed wit this. Barracks requiring supply depot limits Terran openings like crazy. There will be no more variety, less mind/meta games.

Concussive shells at factory is such a great idea. The only real problem with early game TvP is that the maurauder is too strong with concussive shells, putting the upgrade at factory helps a lot more than nitro.


we should put your baneling speed and roach speed into the greater spire yes?


Bad joke, Greater Spire is way more expensive and harder to get to than a Factory. Think before you post.
Cranberries
Profile Joined July 2010
Wales567 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-10-07 17:18:09
October 07 2010 17:12 GMT
#326
Terran is going to have trouble against 6 pools, really? Let's talk timings! Protoss' way of dealing with 6 pool is by walling off completely with a Forge or Gateway. From this we can see that:

Pylon: 25 seconds
Gateway: 65 seconds (requires Pylon)
Total: 90 seconds

Supply Depot: 30 seconds
Barracks: 60 seconds
Total 90 seconds

If Protoss can defend against 6 pool, Terran can defend against it too. Even if it is on Steppes of War.

I already said it isnt overpowered, TWICE. But you called it "useless" and it really, REALLY isnt.

Even if you scout it, its not like every single terran build has a good way of defending it - and you know what, there are a LOT of places buildings can be hidden.

Yes, you can scout - but if you get unlucky you wont find it in time or he will kill your scout. On some maps it can be easy, on others not so much. The fact is, this build is very good or it wouldnt be used by so many good protoss players.

If you dont trust me, you can just ask TLO and he will tell you the same - its a strong build.

Okay, let's call the build strong.

What's the problem? They didn't nerf Marines, Vikings, Anti-Air Turrets. They didn't buff Void Rays, or creation times. If you can defend a Proxy Void Ray at the moment you'll be able to do it after the patch. If there is a more subtle problem, I cannot see it- please tell me.
Lowko
Profile Joined August 2010
Netherlands286 Posts
October 07 2010 17:12 GMT
#327
Awesome news! Yay!
www.LowkoTV.com
Cink
Profile Joined April 2010
United States93 Posts
October 07 2010 17:12 GMT
#328
On October 08 2010 02:06 Cranberries wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 08 2010 02:04 Liquid`Jinro wrote:
On October 08 2010 01:59 Cranberries wrote:
On October 08 2010 01:56 Liquid`Jinro wrote:
On October 08 2010 01:51 DoMo. wrote:
On October 08 2010 01:29 flyinfart wrote:
It would be nice if they made void ray require a fleet beacon. Proxy void ray is ridiculous, especially on maps like LT. Otherwise, I can agree with most of their changes. Though, 6pooling/other cheese is going to become way more devastating to terran.


i lol'd, you bad?

Proxy void ray can be completely retarded when they hide it until they have 3 and you are unable to scout him properly, or scout him incorrectly.

Not unbeatable, just stupid because if you dont prepare specifically for it, you die really hard. There are prob some terran equivalents of this of course.

Void Rays suck against Terran. Getting 3 Void Rays allows you to get at least 15 Marines, and 15 Marines with Stimpack active win against 3 Void Rays- charged or uncharged.

People need to understand the Roach range change is a subtle counter to the Pylon cannon wall in that Zergs will constantly face. The pylon cannon wall in is uncounterable until Hydralisks, and puts the Zerg very, very far behind because they need the expansion due to the way Larvae management works.

The build I described happens to be one of the most popular semi-allins on the korean server -.-

Maybe you should scout around the entire map? If you lose to a building you didn't scout, isn't that your fault? When IdrA lost to his opponent in the GSL because he didn't scout the hidden Nexus, he didn't say it was overpowered- he pretty much agreed it was his own mistake. Or perhaps Terran shouldn't need to scout?

This guy's in your shit Jinro. Hop off his jock bro.
Samsung KHAN| Stork4Lyfe
Zlasher
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
United States9129 Posts
October 07 2010 17:12 GMT
#329
I've been saying the roach should have 4 range for ages, stops hellions/reapers being able to never take a hit from them.

depot before racks is without a doubt the most fucking RETARDED change blizzard has come up with so far.

Can zerg require a 2nd overlord before pool? This shit is seriously stupid.
Follow me: www.twitter.com/zlasher
Aikin
Profile Joined April 2010
Austria532 Posts
October 07 2010 17:12 GMT
#330
Is this considered their team game patch?

The supply before barracks change could be good for team matches because 6 rax reaper to 10 rax reaper where really hard to stop in games with more players. They just got scouted too late.

In 1on1 this change doesn´t make too much sense altough you could have some blind wins with proxy reapers in tvt.

[A]dmiral Bulldog | Naniwa | [A]lliance
Qikz
Profile Blog Joined November 2009
United Kingdom12043 Posts
October 07 2010 17:12 GMT
#331
What's so bad about the supply depot thing? I mean, surely all it means is you just build your depot earliar, exactly what Protoss does for proxy gates?

I play Terran and have done since Brood War and I don't see the problem with that.
FanTaSy's #1 Fan | STPL Caster/Organiser | SKT BEST KT | https://twitch.tv/stpl
prototype.
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
Canada4215 Posts
October 07 2010 17:12 GMT
#332
On October 08 2010 02:06 DoMo. wrote:


"People need to understand the Roach range change is a subtle counter to the Pylon cannon wall in that Zergs will constantly face. The pylon cannon wall in is uncounterable until Hydralisks, and puts the Zerg very, very far behind because they need the expansion due to the way Larvae management works. "

People need to understand that having a drone at your ramp patrolling isn't hard =)

Is that quoted from blizzard? This is ridiculous if this is the reason why they want to increase roach range.
( ・´ー・`)
VonLego
Profile Joined June 2010
United States519 Posts
October 07 2010 17:12 GMT
#333
Protoss should still be able to cannon vs roach, just likely needs a 2 space gap now instead of 1. Might need to do some practicality testing on this one though.
AssuredVacancy
Profile Blog Joined September 2008
United States1167 Posts
October 07 2010 17:13 GMT
#334
Wait all the terrans who say they can't stop 6 pool now... When did you ever scout a zerg before putting down a depot? I'm 100% sure 6 pool on steppes can be stopped by 10depot12 rax.
We spend our youth attaining wealth, and our wealth attaining youth.
Rah
Profile Joined February 2010
United States973 Posts
October 07 2010 17:13 GMT
#335
that's sad. reaper openings were one of the few high risk/ high reward strategies in the early game. even though it was frustrating on the zerg's end, those should at least be an option, maybe nerfed some but not into oblivion. wc4
Streaming on twitch. http://www.twitch.tv/rahsun86
parkin
Profile Blog Joined July 2007
1090 Posts
October 07 2010 17:13 GMT
#336
The Barracks are going to require a Supply Depot, which will impact a lot of early terran reaper pushes.
The reaper speed upgrade will require the Factory, which is meant to weaken a lot of the early terran reaper attacks that dominate so many matches, especially in team games.


I do not like the changes above at all...

Roach slight range upgrade, zerg building hitpoints buff and fungal growth preventing blink sounds like reasonable changes though.

The win % in diamond leagues was interesting. Would be nice to see the win % on specific maps too.
mostly harmless
prototype.
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
Canada4215 Posts
October 07 2010 17:13 GMT
#337
On October 08 2010 02:12 Qikz wrote:
What's so bad about the supply depot thing? I mean, surely all it means is you just build your depot earliar, exactly what Protoss does for proxy gates?

I play Terran and have done since Brood War and I don't see the problem with that.

Blizzard basically removed all/most aggressive/cheesy play for terran.

You don't see a problem in that?
( ・´ー・`)
Liquid`Jinro
Profile Blog Joined September 2002
Sweden33719 Posts
October 07 2010 17:14 GMT
#338
On October 08 2010 02:11 gotterdammerung wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 08 2010 02:08 jamvng wrote:
On October 08 2010 02:03 mucker wrote:
As a zerg I think this is too many changes. The roach range alone is huge and will change the game quite a bit. I'd rather they just implement that and let us see how it plays out.

The fungal/blink... not sure I like this. I always considered the real issue in ZvP to be hydra speed off creep. This change feels too arbitrary.

Barracks requires supply is dogshit. It reduces race differences and restricts gameplay too much. I think upping the tech lab cost and build time would be better.

Nitro isn't the upgrade that needs to be pushed up the tech tree, concussive shells is.


Agreed wit this. Barracks requiring supply depot limits Terran openings like crazy. There will be no more variety, less mind/meta games.

Concussive shells at factory is such a great idea. The only real problem with early game TvP is that the maurauder is too strong with concussive shells, putting the upgrade at factory helps a lot more than nitro.


I agree with you about depot first, its a disaster, but i disagree about a conc shells nerf, that would be the equivalent of the depot nerf, and would accomplish the same thing. it would force the terran to play for the late game, where he is up against an imbalanced protoss with sick units and lots of options

Yep, not having concussive shells available would make some protoss cheese so fucking stupidly strong. Only reason marauders actually do good vs stalkers at low numbers and pre-stim is that the stalkers cant run away and heal.
Moderatortell the guy that interplanatar interaction is pivotal to terrans variety of optionitudals in the pre-midgame preperatories as well as the protosstinal deterriggation of elite zergling strikes - Stimey n | Formerly FrozenArbiter
gotterdammerung
Profile Joined October 2010
Austria17 Posts
October 07 2010 17:14 GMT
#339
On October 08 2010 02:09 Hamlet wrote:
Eliminating the ability for Barracks before Supply seems incredibly reckless to me. The existence of cheesy openings is completely necessary for strategic equilibrium. Why not disable early Spawning Pools and 2gates also? The threat of very early aggression prevents runaway blind econ openings. If, right now, good Z players can Hatch-first and get away with it with some work, then when the earliest possible Barracks is on 11 (really 12), they can act with impunity for the first 2+ minutes of the game.

Moreover, what is it intended to prevent? Yeah, proxy Reapers were a pain before, but there was little clear evidence that they were overpowered. Mass Reapers were worse, but that relied on the speed upgrade (and didn't use a fast Barracks anyway). This change serves no purpose and sacrifices much strategic depth in the opening phase of the game.

A great part of the elegance of Starcraft has alway been due to the viability of aggression at any point in the game, due to the weak defensive advantage and other factors. The player interaction begins from the moment the game begins. It's anathema to try to solve a balance problem with "no rush kk?"


so true, i really hope they dont do this, it will kill all early terran cheese, also the zergs will be going 7 pool vs terran every game lol.
glhf.tv
Thunderfist
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
Poland159 Posts
October 07 2010 17:14 GMT
#340
Hey how about doing something like this:

You can build terran buildings only in rage 9 from depot. Just admit that you want depot to be like a protoss Pylon ! Give some stupid excuse like "Buildings are scared to make units if their homo-friend depo isnt there".

And building times ? Wtf ! There should be like 3 SCVs needed to build one rax, 6 SCVs to build Factory and over 9000 to build starport.
...has arrived.
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