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Yeah, I know the TL community doesn't really like BGH. But I just got back into Starcraft and me and my brother have been playing 1v1s on BGH (I don't think he likes to play anywhere else)
I mainly play on Lost Temple, so I'm with you guys on this one. But I have a lot more fun playing my brother on BGH than I do playing random people on Lost Temple.
I was wondering who you guys think the best race on BGH and possibly how to play Terran. I am doing good with Terran and my brother usually plays Zerg, but I just wanted to post this to see what the TL community thinks because a lot of you that still check these boards are skilled players =).
Also, what would you guys do as a Terran fighting a Protoss that goes straight for Static Defense (with or without quick expo) into Carrier Rush on BGH? If I go absolutely STRAIGHT for a tank by the time I'm getting it I have to slowly push through cannons, and by that time, Carriers on BGH is tough to stop Terran. I had 3/3 Goliaths and he was maxed too, but he kept pushing cannons into the middle. I have 4 expos and about 20 factories and I still lost (we got disconnected, but I may not have held it)
Thanks =). I know to you guys BGH is easy to play, so could you please tell me how to play it 1v1? I look forward to seeing your thoughts.
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BGH is actually not "easy" in terms of macro. With 1 base you can get 3 base econ on one base. You have to macro like a monster. That said, I'm fairly sure P is the best 
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Braavos36390 Posts
P is the best race in 1v1 BGH, it's not even close
vs Z it's pretty easy, you just mass zealots and your tech transition will rape him, he will have to build either lots of lings or static D which will destroy his eco for mid/late game
vs T do the standard gates ob into carrier
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if i remember correctly you can tank drop the cliff behind bottom right corner base.
pretty awesome if the other guy doesn't know about it.
depending on your spawn you can just wall in your natural expo as well
i.e you spawn top left and he doesn't spawn top mid, you can wall in your natural and effectively have 3 bases with 1 wall, whereas top right you cant even wall your nat at all without like 7 depots, lol
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Yeah, I hear Protoss is the dominant race as far as BGH goes. Who do you guys think is better between Terran and Zerg on BGH?
Also, yeah, I really do feel like I have to macro a TON more than my bro does with Zerg. I have like 7 or 8 Factories and I have to keep producing from them at all times as opposed to Zerg's ridiculously easy Macro.
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i think that Zerg>Terran on BGH
As far as late game goes anyway, since it's pretty easy to go ultraling with that much resources. Also the middle is pretty open so flanking is easy.
I guess terran just gets the advantage when it comes to defending bases because those choke points are so dominated by bunkers until defilers are out
it sounds like you are doing mech vs your brother so I'd suggest just whoring mines all over the middle of the map while taking some expos-->going mass 3/3 army-->IRRADIATE THOSE DEFILERS
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intrigue
Washington, D.C9934 Posts
send a pm to hnr)insane on this site.
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Braavos36390 Posts
On December 04 2008 01:25 anderoo wrote:
i think that Zerg>Terran on BGH
As far as late game goes anyway, since it's pretty easy to go ultraling with that much resources. Also the middle is pretty open so flanking is easy.
I guess terran just gets the advantage when it comes to defending bases because those choke points are so dominated by bunkers until defilers are out
it sounds like you are doing mech vs your brother so I'd suggest just whoring mines all over the middle of the map while taking some expos-->going mass 3/3 army-->IRRADIATE THOSE DEFILERS
i disagree, i think Z is the weakest by far because of the improper way larvae work, the other two races basically "expand" by continuously producing workers while zerg have to sacrifice army to produce drones
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For BGH 1v1:
P >> Z or T
Z > T early game (lings > rines without medics)
T >> Z mid-game (mm or vults >> marine/hydra and even lurkers in some cases because of abundance of minerals)
For BGH 2v2/3v3/4v4:
Zerg is by far the weakest race. Unless you can win over your opponents by producing mass zerglings and somehow surviving to the tech level of mutalisk/lurker (and hoping your opponent doesn't have anti-air/detection). Zerg is strong offensively (mainly due to the mobility of speedlings... so if you can micro) but mass zealot/mm and 1a2a3a(1t2t) can run over any mass of sunkens+zerglings.
They're pretty balanced late game with terran having the slight edge if the # of bases are equal.
Doom drops are amazingly cheap and effective, even against mass turrets (add 2-4 swarms and instant success!) Though mm+tank drops can be said to be the same.
Nukes are also more easily reached and more effective than low-money.
There's a BGHers forum (though not as active now as a year ago or so).
You can tank cliff all bases except 12 and 3. In order of ease -> 5,9,11,6,7,1
You can cannon 11,12,5,7
You can perfectly wall (barrack+depot) all bases, but many walls are disadvantageous.
Placement of buildings is VERY important, as 1 or 2 cannons/sunkens/bunkers can mean whether you live or die against hordes of 1a2a3a units.
Common early game builds mimic those of low-money, except order timings will be off due to the substantial difference in resources. Zerg commonly use 9 pool gas speedlings into mutalisks or lurkers, terran either 2 rax academy into mm off of 3-4 rax or wall-in and go 2 fact, protoss either go 2 gate mass zealots or 1 gate fast goon off of 2 gates. (this is early game ~4 minutes)
BGH is not as easy to macro as pretty much ALL of low-money players think. Skill of opponents on BGH may vary just as skill of low-money opponents vary down to the mass of D/D- players. If you're getting an easy 1a2a3a win in less than 8 minutes, then you're probably playing ~60apm opponents.
The community of mannered "veteran" players have been diminishing a lot, most of the people you find nowadays either suck, hack (whether blatantly or subtly), or both, and are really bm. USWest channel: marlboro, usually has mannered players (at least more mannered than the majority...) and if you want some USEast channels just PM me if interested.
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TvP mm > early P uptil P can amass some cannon defense then tech to goon/storm/speedlot/reaver... etc. after that T has to switch to metal and ABUSE cliffing.
ZvT lings(9poolspeed mass ling), all T is doing atm is defend and get marine, medic, firebat into mmtankvessel and use some dropships and abuse cliffing. even in bgh, the more bases you give zerg, zerg will just run over you if they can macro.
ZvP > Z will overrun P from beginning and do a tech switch, P has to defend for the time being until they can get speedlot/archon/storm and secure a base while killing off a zerg base etc.
i admit macro for P is easier than Z or T but in some cases theyll have to defend, HOWEVER this is VERY dependant on starting positions. if T is close = you win. if T is far, mm > zeal/goon until you amass. if Z is close = hard. if Z is far = good for you.
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On December 04 2008 01:33 Not_Computer wrote:
For BGH 2v2/3v3/4v4:
Zerg is by far the weakest race. Unless you can win over your opponents by producing mass zerglings and somehow surviving to the tech level of mutalisk/lurker (and hoping your opponent doesn't have anti-air/detection). Zerg is strong offensively (mainly due to the mobility of speedlings... so if you can micro) but mass zealot/mm and 1a2a3a(1t2t) can run over any mass of sunkens+zerglings.
i have a lot of experience in 2v2/3v3/4v4 on BGH, zerg (most of the time) needs to 9pool speed and keep or KILL one person down while the other techs. yeah, theyll keep making zerglings and if they are doing it well, then can add another hatch instead of a sunk in their mains. 17/17 of zerglings are annoying for people to deal with (thats 1.5group of lings). and i see people go mutalisks but often times theyll mass hydralisks with upgrades then switch to ultraling defiler / some guardian support. but my point being is, zerg needs to be offensive to stay alive throughout the whole game.
oh and this is to not_computer or anyone whos played bgh for over 2k games in team vs team/"pro" matches, how do you wall off 12? ive tried various ways but zerglings always gets through. do you use ssb?
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Braavos36390 Posts
On December 04 2008 01:51 Raithed wrote:
TvP mm > early P uptil P can amass some cannon defense then tech to goon/storm/speedlot/reaver... etc. after that T has to switch to metal and ABUSE cliffing.
ZvT lings(9poolspeed mass ling), all T is doing atm is defend and get marine, medic, firebat into mmtankvessel and use some dropships and abuse cliffing. even in bgh, the more bases you give zerg, zerg will just run over you if they can macro.
ZvP > Z will overrun P from beginning and do a tech switch, P has to defend for the time being until they can get speedlot/archon/storm and secure a base while killing off a zerg base etc.
i admit macro for P is easier than Z or T but in some cases theyll have to defend, HOWEVER this is VERY dependant on starting positions. if T is close = you win. if T is far, mm > zeal/goon until you amass. if Z is close = hard. if Z is far = good for you.
i can't imagine the matchups going the way you say they do, are you sure you're experienced in high level BGH?
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On December 04 2008 02:22 Hot_Bid wrote:Show nested quote +On December 04 2008 01:51 Raithed wrote:
TvP mm > early P uptil P can amass some cannon defense then tech to goon/storm/speedlot/reaver... etc. after that T has to switch to metal and ABUSE cliffing.
ZvT lings(9poolspeed mass ling), all T is doing atm is defend and get marine, medic, firebat into mmtankvessel and use some dropships and abuse cliffing. even in bgh, the more bases you give zerg, zerg will just run over you if they can macro.
ZvP > Z will overrun P from beginning and do a tech switch, P has to defend for the time being until they can get speedlot/archon/storm and secure a base while killing off a zerg base etc.
i admit macro for P is easier than Z or T but in some cases theyll have to defend, HOWEVER this is VERY dependant on starting positions. if T is close = you win. if T is far, mm > zeal/goon until you amass. if Z is close = hard. if Z is far = good for you. i can't imagine the matchups going the way you say they do, are you sure you're experienced in high level BGH?
Did you just say high level BGH?
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Kau
Canada3500 Posts
On December 04 2008 02:01 Raithed wrote:
oh and this is to not_computer or anyone whos played bgh for over 2k games in team vs team/"pro" matches, how do you wall off 12? ive tried various ways but zerglings always gets through. do you use ssb?
Although I don't fall under your criteria of over 2k games of bgh... neither ling can get to the other side.
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Slightly off-topic: Anyone have any good strats for FFA BGH?
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On December 04 2008 02:25 Salv wrote:Show nested quote +On December 04 2008 02:22 Hot_Bid wrote:On December 04 2008 01:51 Raithed wrote:
TvP mm > early P uptil P can amass some cannon defense then tech to goon/storm/speedlot/reaver... etc. after that T has to switch to metal and ABUSE cliffing.
ZvT lings(9poolspeed mass ling), all T is doing atm is defend and get marine, medic, firebat into mmtankvessel and use some dropships and abuse cliffing. even in bgh, the more bases you give zerg, zerg will just run over you if they can macro.
ZvP > Z will overrun P from beginning and do a tech switch, P has to defend for the time being until they can get speedlot/archon/storm and secure a base while killing off a zerg base etc.
i admit macro for P is easier than Z or T but in some cases theyll have to defend, HOWEVER this is VERY dependant on starting positions. if T is close = you win. if T is far, mm > zeal/goon until you amass. if Z is close = hard. if Z is far = good for you. i can't imagine the matchups going the way you say they do, are you sure you're experienced in high level BGH? Did you just say high level BGH?
Yes, Surprise surprise there are high skill level BGH players.
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On December 04 2008 01:51 Raithed wrote:
TvP mm > early P uptil P can amass some cannon defense then tech to goon/storm/speedlot/reaver... etc. after that T has to switch to metal and ABUSE cliffing.
ZvT lings(9poolspeed mass ling), all T is doing atm is defend and get marine, medic, firebat into mmtankvessel and use some dropships and abuse cliffing. even in bgh, the more bases you give zerg, zerg will just run over you if they can macro.
ZvP > Z will overrun P from beginning and do a tech switch, P has to defend for the time being until they can get speedlot/archon/storm and secure a base while killing off a zerg base etc.
i admit macro for P is easier than Z or T but in some cases theyll have to defend, HOWEVER this is VERY dependant on starting positions. if T is close = you win. if T is far, mm > zeal/goon until you amass. if Z is close = hard. if Z is far = good for you.
I'm pretty sure your wrong on everything. T can just metal vs zerg, with 2 gas in their main. Toss forces tons of sunkens vs zerg, which kills their econ. Really zerg can't win a 1v1 unless it's vs zerg on bgh.
When you don't even know how to wall one of the positions on the map, you're probably not experienced enough to know all the balance issues.
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Braavos36390 Posts
On December 04 2008 02:25 Salv wrote:Show nested quote +On December 04 2008 02:22 Hot_Bid wrote:On December 04 2008 01:51 Raithed wrote:
TvP mm > early P uptil P can amass some cannon defense then tech to goon/storm/speedlot/reaver... etc. after that T has to switch to metal and ABUSE cliffing.
ZvT lings(9poolspeed mass ling), all T is doing atm is defend and get marine, medic, firebat into mmtankvessel and use some dropships and abuse cliffing. even in bgh, the more bases you give zerg, zerg will just run over you if they can macro.
ZvP > Z will overrun P from beginning and do a tech switch, P has to defend for the time being until they can get speedlot/archon/storm and secure a base while killing off a zerg base etc.
i admit macro for P is easier than Z or T but in some cases theyll have to defend, HOWEVER this is VERY dependant on starting positions. if T is close = you win. if T is far, mm > zeal/goon until you amass. if Z is close = hard. if Z is far = good for you. i can't imagine the matchups going the way you say they do, are you sure you're experienced in high level BGH? Did you just say high level BGH?
i guarantee that if you play some good BGH players 1v1 pvp on low money maps you will be absolutely destroyed, their low tech unit control and overall macro is very strong. look at the testie-kural series for proof, or that hnr)insane (a bgher on our staff) won the endurance tournament.
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Braavos36390 Posts
On December 04 2008 02:32 LonelyMargarita wrote:Show nested quote +On December 04 2008 01:51 Raithed wrote:
TvP mm > early P uptil P can amass some cannon defense then tech to goon/storm/speedlot/reaver... etc. after that T has to switch to metal and ABUSE cliffing.
ZvT lings(9poolspeed mass ling), all T is doing atm is defend and get marine, medic, firebat into mmtankvessel and use some dropships and abuse cliffing. even in bgh, the more bases you give zerg, zerg will just run over you if they can macro.
ZvP > Z will overrun P from beginning and do a tech switch, P has to defend for the time being until they can get speedlot/archon/storm and secure a base while killing off a zerg base etc.
i admit macro for P is easier than Z or T but in some cases theyll have to defend, HOWEVER this is VERY dependant on starting positions. if T is close = you win. if T is far, mm > zeal/goon until you amass. if Z is close = hard. if Z is far = good for you. I'm pretty sure your wrong on everything. T can just metal vs zerg, with 2 gas in their main. Toss forces tons of sunkens vs zerg, which kills their econ. Really zerg can't win a 1v1 unless it's vs zerg on bgh. When you don't even know how to wall one of the positions on the map, you're probably not experienced enough to know all the balance issues.
basically this. i was trying to be nice haha. i doubt 1v1 ever goes like the way you said it does unless theres a giant gap in skill between the players.
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On December 04 2008 02:35 Hot_Bid wrote:Show nested quote +On December 04 2008 02:25 Salv wrote:On December 04 2008 02:22 Hot_Bid wrote:On December 04 2008 01:51 Raithed wrote:
TvP mm > early P uptil P can amass some cannon defense then tech to goon/storm/speedlot/reaver... etc. after that T has to switch to metal and ABUSE cliffing.
ZvT lings(9poolspeed mass ling), all T is doing atm is defend and get marine, medic, firebat into mmtankvessel and use some dropships and abuse cliffing. even in bgh, the more bases you give zerg, zerg will just run over you if they can macro.
ZvP > Z will overrun P from beginning and do a tech switch, P has to defend for the time being until they can get speedlot/archon/storm and secure a base while killing off a zerg base etc.
i admit macro for P is easier than Z or T but in some cases theyll have to defend, HOWEVER this is VERY dependant on starting positions. if T is close = you win. if T is far, mm > zeal/goon until you amass. if Z is close = hard. if Z is far = good for you. i can't imagine the matchups going the way you say they do, are you sure you're experienced in high level BGH? Did you just say high level BGH? i guarantee that if you play some good BGH players 1v1 pvp on low money maps you will be absolutely destroyed, their low tech unit control and overall macro is very strong. look at the testie-kural series for proof, or that hnr)insane (a bgher on our staff) won the endurance tournament.
I've heard a few references to this but I havent seen it
youtube/replay link?
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EPT![[image loading]](http://img300.imageshack.us/img300/1869/scscrnshot120308102306xq4.jpg)
