EPTjust seems funny since it's an entirely different game essentially with so much untapped potential
[Q] BGH Strategy - Page 5
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Tropics
United Kingdom1132 Posts
just seems funny since it's an entirely different game essentially with so much untapped potential | ||
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gloryofgreece
United States29 Posts
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Not_Computer
Canada2277 Posts
========== Carriers are as unbeatable on BGH as they are on any other map. The only difference is that it's a little easier and faster to get to carriers. But that's not including that to get there would require your opponent to either be of a lesser skill level, or for them to sit back and wait for you to do it. How would you beat carriers on Katrina? (assuming you could, lol) Pure carriers are relatively easy to beat. Scourges, cloaked wraiths, scouts, beat them hands down. If you're talking about open land, goliaths, hydra+swarm, dragoons and storm beat them. If you're talking about creativity, lockdown, ensnare+plague, mind control beat them. If you're talking about macro, more carriers, battlecruisers+yamato, mass devourers+mutalisks also beat them. If you're talking about Sea style, go mm and own that shit ez. Carriers + Corsairs (with web) + Arbiters (with stasis) are almost impossible to beat with zerg air. But if your opponent has that much in the first place, then I doubt it's an issue of imbalance but rather a difference in skill level. Zerg can counter by just simply ignoring the carriers and opting to eliminate them by darkswarm+ultraling rampage. Otherwise, you could just say that reaver+sair is just as unbeatable in PvZ/ZvP. ========== The BGH community hasn't had any successful "ported BGH" maps because: 1) Most of the BGH community are casual players that met BGH via bandwagon: 2) They don't know how to make maps. 3)They have made ported maps but lack the resources (like people willing to waste their precious time) to test and balance them (*AHEM* COUGH COUGH). 4) They have made maps and their maps may actually be ingenious and prove wildly successful among their clan/friends, but the mainstream community simply shrugs it off because they don't like change and are too used to the original BGH. 5) By the time they get to the know-how and skill level of what you suggest, they decide to move on to playing lower-money maps. It's just like saying, how come all the maps we play are predominantly Korean made? How come our foreigner leagues don't have a purely foreigner map pool? May not be the exact same reasons, but it's similar. edit: grahmer | ||
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ted.
United States81 Posts
Anyway regarding BGH strategy and 1v1 BGH I have found the imbalances on bgh are much more noticeable in team games than in 1v1 games. For example in team games if you want to play zerg properly you really should be going 9 pool to buy your ally time to pull off fg or vulture. Or even 12 pool and mm is actually a viable strategy depending on the situation. But in 1v1 the disadvantage of zerg isn't as noticeable. I acually remember once kOOlam saying that he doesn't think that in 1v1 bgh any race has a specific advantage or disadvantage over another (probably not entirely true, but hearing it from one of the greatest bgh players gives us some reassurance). I think the that ZvP is probably the most imbalanced of any of the mu's, (for zerg obviously). But the thing is in 1v1 BGH as zerg you shouldn't always be going 9 pool like you do in team games. In ZvT if your zerg and you are faily close to a terran, and if that terran didn't wall, a strategy that can really run them over is go 9 pool, pump speed lings and make your first hatch IN the terran base, but not too close. Use lings to harras depots/academy/push marines back, once hatch finishes start sunkening up. If they take their scvs out to attack your hatch and you have conserved all your lings you should be able to do some considerable damage to their economy, and run around picking off enough scvs until your hatch is done and you can throw down creeps. If your hatch is well enough placed there is really not much that the terran can do. I have done this many times although I have never really done it to a very skilled terran player so who knows how that would work. Nonetheless you can pull off a 12 hatch vs P as long as they aren't extremely close to you and and almost always pull one off vs a Terran no matter how close they are. Positions obviously play a HUGE role in all the MU's: for example if you are zerg at 11 or 12 vs a terran at 5, or even a toss, you can easily hatch the 11 12 choke (which is very narrow) throw down a line of sunkens, and then take over the other main base and the natural as well. Thats 5 gases you can get relatively easy giving you plenty of options to steam roll a terran. ZvP is virtually impossible if you are in a 6 v 7 / 11 v 12 / 1 v 3 situation, for this matchup to really work the zerg has to get pretty luck by spawning pretty far from the protoss. Anyway the imbalances on bgh are significantly more noticeable in team games than in 1v1 in my opinion. | ||
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Loanshark
China3094 Posts
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ted.
United States81 Posts
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ilovezil
United States4143 Posts
PM me the aliases you use on east so I can contact you (I've been switching names a lot lately). P.S. And before you know it, you'll convert just like Brood! All things are going according to plan. Excellent... | ||
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Ryshi
Canada361 Posts
You shouldn't of had bumped this thread, but rather make a topic that focuses on your hypothesis instead. | ||
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ilovezil
United States4143 Posts
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2Pacalypse-
Croatia9500 Posts
BGH is MUCH more imbalanced in 1v1's that it's ridiculous to play it even for hard core BGHers (except surfer of course^^). Positions play a much bigger role in 1v1's then in team games (although they're very important there too). But biggest imbalance in 1v1's are races. In my opinion terran is the strongest race on BGH by FAR. Zerg has really no chance vs terran, because terran can mass up so much so fast that it just kills anything in it's way. And Protoss sux vs good terran, because of the narrow chokes and siege tanks across river. He can practically just push slowly until he comes to P's base. And since P can't spread his units and attack, it's just really not fair. That's why no one from good BGHers never plays 1v1 on BGH, except sometimes maybe for a fun... | ||
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ted.
United States81 Posts
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ted.
United States81 Posts
But what about that strat I mentioned where say you are zerg at 3 vs a terran at 1, and you go 9 pool, get lots of speed lings out and put your hatchery literally in or right outside the terrans base either out of any sight range hoping to keep their units in their base with lings until hatch finishes and you throw down sunks or even if it was in their sight range (assuming they didn't wall). I have done this numerous times, mainly vs players who I wouldn't consider top tier, but how would you counter that if you were terran and you opened with mm and didn't wall and all the sudden there are 10 lings outside your base and a hatchery building. I am not saying this build is instant win I am just wondering how you personally would handle the situation, this is also assuming the zerg is a good player with good ling control. I also think 1v1 bgh honestly comes down to position, I think any MU can be balanced if you get lucky with positions, ofc zerg is screwed if they are 11 12 or 6 7 with terran (and don't do my ultimate hatchery rush of course :D) or toss. And I don't think that terran is by FAR the strongest in 1v1 bgh by any means. With protoss if you get expo's up across on opposite ends of the map and contain the terran for as long as you can by slowing down their push as hard as you can I feel like it is pretty easy to get carriers off on a far away expo. Exactly what hnr)insane did vs (cant remember his name) in the endurance tournament on BGH. I also think you are forgetting the power of arbitors, With toss on bgh it is so easy to fly around small groups of arbitors recalling across the map and recalling on bases and recalling more aribors and just keep doing that, you can abuse the fuck out of stasis and recall with like 10 arbitors. If the terran push is giving u hard time, stasis a bunch of their units recall a few groups on top of it and bam. It's not like toss is just stuck to ground units and they are forced to fight in narrow chokes, thats what carriers and arbitors are for I would like to hear insane's opinion on this matter. I really do not think that Terran is the strongest by FAR by any means. I think an excellent toss player can easily give an excellent terran player a run for his money | ||
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Boblion
France8043 Posts
I would like to see another showmatch between a good Bgher ( or fast player ) and a good low money player with a balanced map pool :p. That would be fun. I had the rep pack of a 3v3 BGH tournament where the [media] boys smurfed ( and lost to Koolam and his friend lol ) and all the players were P so i guess that ( in team game at least ) the best race is P. | ||
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Fontong
United States6454 Posts
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Insane
United States4991 Posts
P > Z 1v1 P >= T (small-ish advantage) imo, depending upon positions though. You're right that the narrow chokes and stuff are good for Terran, but you have to play it very aggressively and get fast Carriers and then it's playable. | ||
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ted.
United States81 Posts
Anyway Peter will you tell me what you think would happen in a 1v1 bgh situation zvt for example 11 vs 12, zerg goes 9 pool, the terran probably isn't going to wall considering zerg is so close, but rather settle for a bunker once they see the 9 pool, zerg keeps pumping a lings and starts a hatchery inside terrans base. I mean I have done this tons of times and never once let the terran live. I am not saying these were some top tier terran players but when you guys say T >>>>> Z I am just curious as how you think this scenario would play out with 2 very skilled players considering what I just explained happened | ||
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Insane
United States4991 Posts
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CTStalker
Canada9720 Posts
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Wala.Revolution
7582 Posts
On March 15 2009 13:11 CTStalker wrote: is surfer4life actually like a respected player or something? everytime i've played against him in 3v3s he's been a typical petulant east caps shit talker whose play usually fails to live up to his mouth Hell no. | ||
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Insane
United States4991 Posts
On March 15 2009 13:11 CTStalker wrote: is surfer4life actually like a respected player or something? everytime i've played against him in 3v3s he's been a typical petulant east caps shit talker whose play usually fails to live up to his mouth Definitely not  My comment about him was in jest | ||
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