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Stormgate. The new Starcraft 3? - Page 7

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sophisticated
Profile Joined October 2021
60 Posts
June 13 2023 17:03 GMT
#121
On June 13 2023 00:36 Cyro wrote:
Show nested quote +
limited control groups


Should they also make the mouse cursor shake randomly so that it's hard to click on the unit that you want?


I mean there's this narrative saying that one reason that BW is a good competitive game is that even the best players are not quite able to manipulate its mechanics perfectly. And I think that's true.
You have to build the game in such a way that there's various things you can do in the game that are difficult enough from a mechanical-execution standpoint that real differentiation between players is possible (e.g. we all know who has the best shuttle/reaver micro) and that there's generally too much to do at any given point in the game that no living human being can do all of them perfectly. Even Flash loses Vessels to Scourge sometimes when he builds a round of marines.
This goes directly against making the UI of the game such that it's easy to manipulate the entities in the game, or to make it so that it's as easy to manipulate a large number of entities as it is to manipulate a small number, or to make the entities smart and capable of doing the optimal thing without supervision by the player.
Of course the challenge from a design standpoint is to make that in a way that is engaging for people to play, learn and improve. Many of the systems where that is the case have been historical accidents owing to technical limitations that audiences would just accept in the past or to software bugs. If Broodwar came out today, would anybody say "you know how these units have very simplistic pathing and move very inefficiently or get stuck if you don't babysit them constantly? I'm gonna get really good at controlling them efficiently because that way I will get an edge over my opponents"? No chance.
Also coming from quake it's funny that you mention "make the mouse cursor shake randomly so that it's hard to click on the unit that you want" because that is basically how Counterstrike gunplay is made challenging.
Dante08
Profile Blog Joined February 2008
Singapore4139 Posts
Last Edited: 2023-06-14 09:39:28
June 14 2023 09:39 GMT
#122
On June 13 2023 00:05 JoinTheRain wrote:
I've been thinking, how come rts developers don't make a game with casual mode which I imagine is like sc2 mechanics-wise, maybe more resources per base, just easier to get into the game. Then make competitive mode, similar to bw: without mbs, limited control groups, just harder to excel at in general. Kind of like csgo is, casual mode is way more forgiving than competitive and you can just mess around with guns on casual, do this nonsense, then that, you know. And in competitive you can go and show off game skill with the tough mechanics.


It's just the trend with games nowadays, developers purposely make games that are super easy to get into, with easy mechanics and handholding you from early. It makes gamers feel they are "good" and draws in more players which mean more sales and/or micro-transactions.

Very few developers make games that are actually like BW or even SC2 which by today's standards is a hardcore game.

I don't think a competitive mode would be popular with most casual players so I think developers just don't bother.
yB.TeH
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
Germany414 Posts
June 14 2023 11:07 GMT
#123
looks like another game that tries to sell itself through marketing not actually being a fun game
didn't see anything that justify that astroturfed hype so far, maybe in another year or two
HolySmoke
Profile Joined August 2019
8 Posts
June 14 2023 12:00 GMT
#124
On June 14 2023 20:07 yB.TeH wrote:
looks like another game that tries to sell itself through marketing not actually being a fun game
didn't see anything that justify that astroturfed hype so far, maybe in another year or two



Excatly

It LOOKS terrible, cartoonish style and infantile
nojok
Profile Joined May 2011
France15845 Posts
June 14 2023 15:36 GMT
#125
On June 14 2023 20:07 yB.TeH wrote:
looks like another game that tries to sell itself through marketing not actually being a fun game

The almost entirely free game without any pay2win element which everyone will be able to play before giving them a single cent is relying on marketing more than actually being good? It's not the smartest opinion.

Come on, it's like SC2 or AoE4 release again, BW/AoE2 scenes were toxic af towards their franchise next gen, except now that big companies don't even bother making new RTS, all of the small RTS communities congregate to hate on this one.


Considering the preview, I for one feel like the macro aspect might fall a bit too short, I strongly disliked the lack of macro in war3 (upkeep is so dumb in an RTS), I liked the level of macro in SC2 except for the fact being 2 seconds late on your army or mineral line could end the game and that maps eventually lost a lot of variety over time. AoE4 lacked some punch in the player interactions department but the macro felt great with 4 ressources to balance and generated maps with scattered ressources (except most maps were terrible).

It's tough to judge units without knowing more, I hope they nailed the pathing.
"Back then teams that won were credited, now it's called throw. I think it's sad." - Kuroky - Flap Flap Wings!
MeSaber
Profile Joined December 2009
Sweden1235 Posts
June 14 2023 15:40 GMT
#126
For those who havent found the other Stormgate thread:



IMO it looks like SC2 (units) meets WC3 (terrain) and i dont really know what to feel about that. Nothing innovative so far.
-.-
Mutaller
Profile Blog Joined July 2013
United States1051 Posts
June 14 2023 18:37 GMT
#127
I think more SC2 players will fully migrate to SG, I never fully migrated to SC2 from BW. I played it enjoyed it, raged at it so on. I feel like SG will be a vacation from BW, but I'll be back
"To practice isn't for you to get better now in the present. Practice will never betray you and will always come back for you in the future." -Jaedong
BLinD-RawR
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
ALLEYCAT BLUES50600 Posts
June 15 2023 03:50 GMT
#128
I think multiple conversations over multiple threads isn't really the way to go, please just use the main stormgate thread.

https://tl.net/forum/games/594282-stormgate-frost-giant-megathread
Brood War EICWoo Jung Ho, never forget.| Twitter: @BLinDRawR
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