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Northern Ireland26223 Posts
On June 12 2023 11:38 Dante08 wrote:
Don’t get your hopes up on Stormgate from a BW perspective, no one is going to make a game like BW again. This will probably be like a mix of SC2/WC3
It’s never going to happen until somebody cracks the formula to keep everything that makes it so great, and have that not be due to its various limitations and relatively crushing mechanical difficulty.
Even good Starcraft 2 players struggle to get up to speed with BW and that’s the next most difficult big competitive RTS game on the market.
Hey BW still exists at the end of the day and is doing pretty bloody well
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United Kingdom20322 Posts
limited control groups
Should they also make the mouse cursor shake randomly so that it's hard to click on the unit that you want?
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Paraphrasing that famous quote, this looks like "Marines in the forest".
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United States10253 Posts
Feels like the same thing nintendo did with their advance wars remake. Turned gritty, rugged pixels into overly smooth, cartoonish designs.
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On June 13 2023 00:08 WombaT wrote:Show nested quote +On June 12 2023 11:38 Dante08 wrote:
Don’t get your hopes up on Stormgate from a BW perspective, no one is going to make a game like BW again. This will probably be like a mix of SC2/WC3 It’s never going to happen until somebody cracks the formula to keep everything that makes it so great, and have that not be due to its various limitations and relatively crushing mechanical difficulty. Even good Starcraft 2 players struggle to get up to speed with BW and that’s the next most difficult big competitive RTS game on the market. Hey BW still exists at the end of the day and is doing pretty bloody well
Right. A game like BW will be outdated, clumsy, have a small player base and... will never quite be BW.
So why bother?
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On June 13 2023 00:05 JoinTheRain wrote:
I've been thinking, how come rts developers don't make a game with casual mode which I imagine is like sc2 mechanics-wise, maybe more resources per base, just easier to get into the game. Then make competitive mode, similar to bw: without mbs, limited control groups, just harder to excel at in general. Kind of like csgo is, casual mode is way more forgiving than competitive and you can just mess around with guns on casual, do this nonsense, then that, you know. And in competitive you can go and show off game skill with the tough mechanics.
The people playing the "competitive mode" would feel like superior human beings compared to the casual players, and gamers nowadays have fragile egos.
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On June 13 2023 01:49 Garnet wrote:Show nested quote +On June 13 2023 00:05 JoinTheRain wrote:
I've been thinking, how come rts developers don't make a game with casual mode which I imagine is like sc2 mechanics-wise, maybe more resources per base, just easier to get into the game. Then make competitive mode, similar to bw: without mbs, limited control groups, just harder to excel at in general. Kind of like csgo is, casual mode is way more forgiving than competitive and you can just mess around with guns on casual, do this nonsense, then that, you know. And in competitive you can go and show off game skill with the tough mechanics. The people playing the "competitive mode" would feel like superior human beings compared to the casual players, and gamers nowadays have fragile egos.
Closest thing I can think of is Street Fighter 6 doing the "modern" vs "classic" control scheme but it doesn't seem nearly as big of a difference as what he is suggesting though. RTS games are already niche enough I don't think you want to split your userbase enough with different control modes like that, especially in 1v1 games that are just so toxic and full of "get good noob" attitude instead of encouraging new players to join the community however they want to lol.
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I still think the closest we could get is to make a fast-paced, explosive RTS with micro potential and rhythm / dexterity based macro. The casual mode would be that the player is the coach that could give certain commands,strategies, maybe even select build orders and map choices in best-of-series and could train the computer player. Wouldn't be easy to pull off, especially because the computer / ai would need to have human limitations, like not seeing the whole map at the same time, never miss something etc.
Maybe someone will get that to work on one of the existing Starcraft games. But I think ultimately dumbing down a game isn't going to make it all that more succesful. Some QoL changes are another thing.
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Scouting Dogs and PeaceKeepers. Looks more like Red Alert 4. 
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Was expecting dumbed down version of sc2, got warcraft 3 without heroes :/
Maybe campaign will be fun...
But as others said, never gonna have a game like BW made anymore 
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On June 13 2023 07:34 Lorch wrote:Was expecting dumbed down version of sc2, got warcraft 3 without heroes :/ Maybe campaign will be fun... But as others said, never gonna have a game like BW made anymore
While that statement might very well be valid, one thing I think most of y'all don't even realise that a lot of us are entering 'boomer' territory which also means we suffer from natural taste freeze and we'll get more and more dismissive regarding new things.
I mean, you've been playing SC since up to 25 years now, do you really think you'll ever drop this game in the forseeable future for the next 'big thing'?
While I personally also have mixed feelings and doubt towards Stormgate I also don't see how it can't be a fun experience to play for a while, co-existing with other RTS games even without a chance to take the top spot.
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In a consumerism, corporate world, media are viewed closer to a product than a labour of love, to be pumped out as much and as fast as tolerable instead of striving to deliver new sparks, new breakthroughs.
Deem it being a boomer, nostalgia or Blizzard-phobia, I just don't see that glint of ingenuity in Stormgate (or in Diablo 4).
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I have to admit they are spending big time on the package - TLO , day9, etc...
We can't know what will be inside but from what I see this game will be better marketed to the warcraft community.
There is even a chicken in there in the footage...
I think somebody mentioned breakable trees?
- i've had enough breakable rocks in my life to know that it's not something to be excited about...
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On June 13 2023 22:12 BlueStar wrote:
I think somebody mentioned breakable trees?
- i've had enough breakable rocks in my life to know that it's not something to be excited about...
Someone already said this about being able to lift seige units while they're in seige mode - you can't just point to a feature that wasn't enjoyable in one game and assume it won't work in the context of another game. I find destructible terrain interesting in BW and WC, but boring in SC2. It all comes down to the context in which the mechanic exists. The way destructable rocks work in SC2, I find them really uninteresting, because they're usually fairly low-impact and they're rarely contested. They tried more interesting uses of them early on with maps like Blistering Sands, where the destructible rocks opened a second entrance to your main and were thus hugely impactful and a major point of contention in almost every game on that map. They didn't really work, though, because then attacking or defending the destructible rocks basically became the entire focus of every game.
On the other hand, BW has destructible terrain that can be super interesting. Maps with stacked temples so that you can only open certain paths with splash damage, or maps that have two-way destructible pathing where you can open up an attack pathway by destroying one piece of terrain but seal it off by destroying another one, stuff like that turns out to be very interesting in the context of BW. And I always thought the ability to open passages through forests in WC games was interesting and fun.
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Innovative 
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I'm optimistic. TLO looked like he was having a blast 
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Northern Ireland26223 Posts
On June 13 2023 18:28 Sd13 wrote:
In a consumerism, corporate world, media are viewed closer to a product than a labour of love, to be pumped out as much and as fast as tolerable instead of striving to deliver new sparks, new breakthroughs.
Deem it being a boomer, nostalgia or Blizzard-phobia, I just don't see that glint of ingenuity in Stormgate (or in Diablo 4).
The entire medium was at a stretch 2 decades old in terms of commercial games, if even, when games like StarCraft came out.
It’s now half a century old so innovation and breakthroughs aren’t impossible, they do get harder and harder to come across and have the same impact they once did.
Even if a new shit hot game comes out, I’m 33 and I’ve been playing games since I was 6. It’s not going to have that oomph that something that was unlike I’d ever played when I was a kid or in my teens is going to have
Not unlike popular music, it’s been a while since anything totally new sounding came out, the good stuff comes with an artful blend of stuff that was already established
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On June 13 2023 22:50 ThunderJunk wrote:I'm optimistic. TLO looked like he was having a blast
Give me money and I will look like I was having a blast too :D
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One thing is certain - they're going crazy with the PR stuff.
There's a thread on the SC2 subforum, here in the BW subforum, and in the general games subforum.
Personally, I think that this game is so far detached from BW that the place for discussion is elsewhere.
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Stormgate might work as a gateway drug to Broodwar. New players, that learned some RTS basics and are now ready for the real deal.
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EPT
