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On May 05 2022 03:48 honorablemacroterran wrote:Show nested quote +On May 05 2022 01:21 Magic Powers wrote:On May 04 2022 22:22 honorablemacroterran wrote:On May 04 2022 20:10 TMNT wrote:On May 04 2022 10:53 honorablemacroterran wrote:On May 04 2022 08:32 TMNT wrote:On May 04 2022 07:55 honorablemacroterran wrote:On May 03 2022 08:59 TMNT wrote:On May 02 2022 05:14 honorablemacroterran wrote:
It sounds like you decided to make yourself a villain because he did his usual post-loss bitching that he does on every stream against every opponent and it offended your narcissism so you decided to streamsnipe him and are now acting surprised that people think it was bad behavior. So are we supposed to take it that if you complain about your opponent that justifies them streamsniping you going forward?
Lol, so what on earth justifies Artosis's bm almost every game? Insulting his opponents, calling them stupid, morons, apes, fuck this fuck that... How come you don't see the problems with the guy bitching after every game, but instead attribute narcissism to the guy who feels offended by that. Stream sniping is in fact the softest "punishment" Artosis can have for his toxic behavior. What does he have to endure lol? Playing (and losing, in a fair manner) a Starcraft game. Imagine behaving like that in a LAN setting, soon somebody will smash a keyboard into his head and everyone will kinda agree he deserves that. The other day after losing a "lag" game against a BSL fella, Artosis then proceeded to call BSL a "lagging shitshow". Yep, that's the kind of respect he has for the foreign community. If he gets banished from SC altogether, I'd say he deserves it. Yeah believe me I didn't post in this thread to whiteknight for Artosis, he can certainly improve. I posted in this thread because I think people who get offended by his act are rubbish and the king of them all is Kwark. I'd like to know what kind of logic you're using to judge people. + Man who insults everything everyone that he doesn't like = can improve. + People who get offended by said man = narcissism and rubbish. Artosis knows he's an entertainer, but you take the bombast seriously and act sanctimoniously in response. Also, there's a big difference between talking shit and streamsniping someone. Talking shit is easily ignored. I was talking about his gameplay, by the way, not his general behavior on stream. His content is top notch and brings laughter to thousands on a daily basis even if his play isn't exceptionally good. Dude you keep downplaying the toxicity of Artosis's behavior on stream. Can improve? Bombast? Lmao. On the other hand how come you use all kinds of negative terms to describe people who get offended by him? Such fanboyism at its finest. Let's face the truth here: he's a dick on stream. Yeah he's an entertainer. But being an entertainer doesn't give you the right to shit on everyone. I do find some of his stuff is funny, but there must be a line somewhere. And lmao at talking shit is easily ignored. Yeah, because you are the one doing the shit talking. So after I insult someone I'll just advise them to ignore it. Yep, it works like that. Easy peasy. I insult you because I'm an entertainer ans I'm allowed to, and if you feel offended it's because you're rubbish people. Hahahaha. Stop riding his dick dude. Plus I'd also like to know the mental struggle of being stream sniped. So you hit the queue button on ladder and you play a game of Starcraft, with or without knowing that the opponent was deliberately trying to match you. You win the game if you're better and lose if you're worse. Just like every other game. Hmm I can't imagine the trauma such experience gives. Must be tough man. Must be tough. You must absolutely hate stand-up comedy then. If you can't ignore people whom you don't respect talking shit then you might just be a narcissist after all. Your post sounds like you are on the verge of tears over a guy who rages every stream. Part of growing up is learning to ignore people who aggravate you when you pay attention to them but you don't have to pay attention to them if you don't want to. I vividly remember the last stand-up comedy routine that I went to. Was a funny dude. Towards the end of his show he invited me to the stage. I felt honored, so my legs carried me through the rows of seats. As I stood a few feet next to the brilliant man, he asked me how my day was. I said I was great, and that I had just been promoted a day earlier. Suddenly his face appeared to crumple as he had a slightly annoyed look on his face. In front of the large audience he said to me words that I'll never forget because they were so funny: 'your game is weak, you'll never amount to anything and you should be ranked much lower with your horrible work ethic'. There was little laughter, but the audience seemed almost as stunned as I was. There I was, being given the honor of being taught the great comedy that was my life by a great comedian. A few people threw cash onto the stage. I think moments before the show ended I saw Mario enter the hall. After one last sip from my drink I left for home. I'll never forget this great day, it was hilarious and also full of wisdom. What a great guy, he'll go on to be a big name beloved by everyone. I think you might be missing or just in general don't appreciate what this sort of humor is. The humor is watching him get into such a state over a little casual ladder action. That's why his viewers bombard him with troll donations even in the middle of games he is losing. It's not that he's telling jokes per se like a standup comedian would. The similarity is that in both cases, stand-up comedians and Artosis, they direct mean words at people for the sake of humor and they shouldn't be taken seriously.
Sure, you have a right to your opinion. I also have an opinion, and strangely it's not in line with yours. Might have something to do with me having taken notice how much unjustified negativity Artosis spreads during his streams towards players who just want to have a fun time, or it might be because I'm extremely biased against a super popular and extremely hilarious god-tier streamer (who's also the most consistently non-S-ranked S-class player of all time).
I'm sure there's no way to objectively assess which opinion rests on stronger physical evidence, like video captures and screenshots of Artosis' text messages and other behavior during the games he plays. It's not like we live in a world where such evidence collecting could be done, or has already been done.
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On May 05 2022 05:13 Magic Powers wrote:Show nested quote +On May 05 2022 03:48 honorablemacroterran wrote:On May 05 2022 01:21 Magic Powers wrote:On May 04 2022 22:22 honorablemacroterran wrote:On May 04 2022 20:10 TMNT wrote:On May 04 2022 10:53 honorablemacroterran wrote:On May 04 2022 08:32 TMNT wrote:On May 04 2022 07:55 honorablemacroterran wrote:On May 03 2022 08:59 TMNT wrote:On May 02 2022 05:14 honorablemacroterran wrote:
It sounds like you decided to make yourself a villain because he did his usual post-loss bitching that he does on every stream against every opponent and it offended your narcissism so you decided to streamsnipe him and are now acting surprised that people think it was bad behavior. So are we supposed to take it that if you complain about your opponent that justifies them streamsniping you going forward?
Lol, so what on earth justifies Artosis's bm almost every game? Insulting his opponents, calling them stupid, morons, apes, fuck this fuck that... How come you don't see the problems with the guy bitching after every game, but instead attribute narcissism to the guy who feels offended by that. Stream sniping is in fact the softest "punishment" Artosis can have for his toxic behavior. What does he have to endure lol? Playing (and losing, in a fair manner) a Starcraft game. Imagine behaving like that in a LAN setting, soon somebody will smash a keyboard into his head and everyone will kinda agree he deserves that. The other day after losing a "lag" game against a BSL fella, Artosis then proceeded to call BSL a "lagging shitshow". Yep, that's the kind of respect he has for the foreign community. If he gets banished from SC altogether, I'd say he deserves it. Yeah believe me I didn't post in this thread to whiteknight for Artosis, he can certainly improve. I posted in this thread because I think people who get offended by his act are rubbish and the king of them all is Kwark. I'd like to know what kind of logic you're using to judge people. + Man who insults everything everyone that he doesn't like = can improve. + People who get offended by said man = narcissism and rubbish. Artosis knows he's an entertainer, but you take the bombast seriously and act sanctimoniously in response. Also, there's a big difference between talking shit and streamsniping someone. Talking shit is easily ignored. I was talking about his gameplay, by the way, not his general behavior on stream. His content is top notch and brings laughter to thousands on a daily basis even if his play isn't exceptionally good. Dude you keep downplaying the toxicity of Artosis's behavior on stream. Can improve? Bombast? Lmao. On the other hand how come you use all kinds of negative terms to describe people who get offended by him? Such fanboyism at its finest. Let's face the truth here: he's a dick on stream. Yeah he's an entertainer. But being an entertainer doesn't give you the right to shit on everyone. I do find some of his stuff is funny, but there must be a line somewhere. And lmao at talking shit is easily ignored. Yeah, because you are the one doing the shit talking. So after I insult someone I'll just advise them to ignore it. Yep, it works like that. Easy peasy. I insult you because I'm an entertainer ans I'm allowed to, and if you feel offended it's because you're rubbish people. Hahahaha. Stop riding his dick dude. Plus I'd also like to know the mental struggle of being stream sniped. So you hit the queue button on ladder and you play a game of Starcraft, with or without knowing that the opponent was deliberately trying to match you. You win the game if you're better and lose if you're worse. Just like every other game. Hmm I can't imagine the trauma such experience gives. Must be tough man. Must be tough. You must absolutely hate stand-up comedy then. If you can't ignore people whom you don't respect talking shit then you might just be a narcissist after all. Your post sounds like you are on the verge of tears over a guy who rages every stream. Part of growing up is learning to ignore people who aggravate you when you pay attention to them but you don't have to pay attention to them if you don't want to. I vividly remember the last stand-up comedy routine that I went to. Was a funny dude. Towards the end of his show he invited me to the stage. I felt honored, so my legs carried me through the rows of seats. As I stood a few feet next to the brilliant man, he asked me how my day was. I said I was great, and that I had just been promoted a day earlier. Suddenly his face appeared to crumple as he had a slightly annoyed look on his face. In front of the large audience he said to me words that I'll never forget because they were so funny: 'your game is weak, you'll never amount to anything and you should be ranked much lower with your horrible work ethic'. There was little laughter, but the audience seemed almost as stunned as I was. There I was, being given the honor of being taught the great comedy that was my life by a great comedian. A few people threw cash onto the stage. I think moments before the show ended I saw Mario enter the hall. After one last sip from my drink I left for home. I'll never forget this great day, it was hilarious and also full of wisdom. What a great guy, he'll go on to be a big name beloved by everyone. I think you might be missing or just in general don't appreciate what this sort of humor is. The humor is watching him get into such a state over a little casual ladder action. That's why his viewers bombard him with troll donations even in the middle of games he is losing. It's not that he's telling jokes per se like a standup comedian would. The similarity is that in both cases, stand-up comedians and Artosis, they direct mean words at people for the sake of humor and they shouldn't be taken seriously. Sure, you have a right to your opinion. I also have an opinion, and strangely it's not in line with yours. Might have something to do with me having taken notice how much unjustified negativity Artosis spreads during his streams towards players who just want to have a fun time, or it might be because I'm extremely biased against a super popular and extremely hilarious god-tier streamer (who's also the most consistently non-S-ranked S-class player of all time). I'm sure there's no way to objectively assess which opinion rests on stronger physical evidence, like video captures and screenshots of Artosis' text messages and other behavior during the games he plays. It's not like we live in a world where such evidence collecting could be done, or has already been done.
Yeah I think the disconnect is that you are a baby.
User was warned for this post
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This is being blown out of proportion, I'll tell you how this entire thing started. Early 2020, Artosis started streaming BW more regularly, he hits KwarK 1 game, loses and trash talks. KwarK takes offense and proceeds to snipe him/trash talk him in-game (game related stuff but obviously his goal is to get him back).
Obviously Artosis doesn't like this and trash talks KwarK on his stream from that point on etc. Some time passes and KwarK msgs me something to tell Artosis, I tell him it's not my place to do so and that he should msg him directly via TL. From that point I've been pretty much out of the loop w/ everything that's happened afterwards but that's the essence of the beef, it's pretty innocent/game related stuff.
Now if we go back to the start and really think about it, both their perspectives/reactions are understandable. Artosis is just being himself (this is his competitive nature). I've known him for a very long time, trust me when I say he's always been like this and doesn't care about who he offends. He might hold some stuff back if he knows you personally but if he doesn't you're gonna get da full blast (trust me i know).
The thing is, players are very competitive and they react to race/skill bashing differently, some get more offended than others. Many players are gonna act the same way KwarK did (and many have, both kors and foreigners). Even if this type of stuff is annoying to deal with, it comes with the territory. He might think he shouldn't need to deal with it but the reality is this type of stuff is bound to happen in most competitive settings.
Now, I also think you're asking to be disliked when you snipe/instigate trash talk against a known streamer/competitive person like Artosis. This entire thing is pretty harmless to me tho, it gets annoying when fans become overly invested and start to character bash, let the players deal with it. Grudges should always stay between players and they should resolve it (or not) however they deem fit.
I'm a purist so I always look at stuff like this from an entertainment/competitive lens, I love it. Players are always gonna like/dislike other players, that's what makes the competitive scene juicy. You just can't take this stuff personally, what happens in-game stays in-game.
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United States42255 Posts
TT1’s now edited post reasonably reflects what happened. Amusingly enough he was the catalyst for all this by posting the vod of Artosis BMing me, without that I never would have known.
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for the sake of transparency/context this is The Origins thread
![[image loading]](https://i.imgur.com/u4qXuQI.png)
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ill just copy paste what i told you on disc for transparency
btw i can post w/e BW related thing i want on a BW forum, i don't need to ask for your permission, your reaction is on you
edited my last post to be more precise on how it started
![[image loading]](https://i.imgur.com/l3nQzhr.png)
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I had no idea there was beef between Artosis and KwarK before this thread was opened, and I'd bet many/most others didn't know either. I came to dislike and criticize his behavior all on my own, and so did many others who've watched his streams and decided it's not for them. With Artosis being an ambassador of the game I think he's doing much harm to the scene, and that's why I decided to throw my hat in the ring.
The argument I'm hearing is that "Artosis generally creates a negative atmosphere, he's not singling anyone out". Ok, that makes it better. Wait, what?
I guess Artosis has the enormous privilege of having a high status in the community due to his most active days as a commentator working alongside the legendary Tasteless, who had paved the way for him. Must be nice to be so immune to criticism thanks to both nostalgic and fresh fans.
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On May 05 2022 12:32 Magic Powers wrote:
I had no idea there was beef between Artosis and KwarK before this thread was opened, and I'd bet many/most others didn't know either. I came to dislike and criticize his behavior all on my own, and so did many others who've watched his streams and decided it's not for them. With Artosis being an ambassador of the game I think he's doing much harm to the scene, and that's why I decided to throw my hat in the ring.
The argument I'm hearing is that "Artosis generally creates a negative atmosphere, he's not singling anyone out". Ok, that makes it better. Wait, what?
I guess Artosis has the enormous privilege of having a high status in the community due to his most active days as a commentator working alongside the legendary Tasteless, who had paved the way for him. Must be nice to be so immune to criticism thanks to both nostalgic and fresh fans.
No matter how you wanna look at it, the foreign BW scene would be dead without Artosis (i witnessed this 1st hand even post SCR, before he streamed). BSL wouldn't be BSL had Artosis not started streaming BW full time, the player base/viewer base would be much lower. So yes he's in a different position, regardless of whether or not you like/dislike how he acts on stream, you need to respect what he does for the game as a whole.
It's the same type of mindset you should have as a player. No matter who your opponent is and how they play you should still respect them for giving you the opportunity to play the game, without an opponent there would be no one to play.
This is what i don't understand with a lot of people, if you don't like him just don't watch him, ignore him. Everyone wants to change something, be it with the game or how someone acts etc. As long as you're not hurting someone on a personal level, let people be themselves.
Artosis acts in an extreme way (gameplay-wise to his detriment a lot of the time, keep that in mind) but he keeps his general trash talk BW related (until someone takes offense and comes back at him, then things start to get more personal). The way he conducts himself in and out of competing (to him that's playing the game, that's his mindset) is genuinely who he is as a person, you want someone to change the essence of who they are? Why? Just because you don't like it? BW is just a game dude, you'll survive.
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On May 05 2022 13:21 TT1 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 05 2022 12:32 Magic Powers wrote:
I had no idea there was beef between Artosis and KwarK before this thread was opened, and I'd bet many/most others didn't know either. I came to dislike and criticize his behavior all on my own, and so did many others who've watched his streams and decided it's not for them. With Artosis being an ambassador of the game I think he's doing much harm to the scene, and that's why I decided to throw my hat in the ring.
The argument I'm hearing is that "Artosis generally creates a negative atmosphere, he's not singling anyone out". Ok, that makes it better. Wait, what?
I guess Artosis has the enormous privilege of having a high status in the community due to his most active days as a commentator working alongside the legendary Tasteless, who had paved the way for him. Must be nice to be so immune to criticism thanks to both nostalgic and fresh fans. No matter how you wanna look at it, the foreign BW scene would be dead without Artosis (i witnessed this 1st hand even post SCR, before he streamed). BSL wouldn't be BSL had Artosis not started streaming BW full time, the player base/viewer base would be much lower. So yes he's in a different position, regardless of whether or not you like/dislike how he acts on stream, you need to respect what he does for the game as a whole. It's the same type of mindset you should have as a player. No matter who your opponent is and how they play you should still respect him for giving you the opportunity to play the game, without an opponent there would be no one to play.
I respect Artosis for his positive contributions to the game, and I criticize him for his negative contributions. Artosis the commentator is a force for good. Artosis the streamer almost exclusively spreads negativity.
Criticism of Artosis remains valid regardless of his good aspects. We don't have to accept his constant negativity just because he's also sometimes positive.
Furthermore I strictly do not believe that the foreign scene would be dead without him. That claim does nothing but further his superiority complex. I'd argue that his negativity has caused a number of people to invest less into the game because he spreads so much negativity, directly but also indirectly (as a role model). This is not a myth, it's well-known that a negative environment causes people to leave, and those who stay to be less invested, even if the activity itself would be fun in principle.
Lastly, I consider it ironic that Artosis' fanboys criticize the criticism of Artosis, indicating that they're not happy when criticism negatively impacts the fun they're having, but not self-aware enough to realize their double standard.
This is what i don't understand with a lot of Artosis fanboys, if they don't like his critics they can just not listen to them, just ignore them. Hmm...
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On May 05 2022 13:47 Magic Powers wrote:Show nested quote +On May 05 2022 13:21 TT1 wrote:On May 05 2022 12:32 Magic Powers wrote:
I had no idea there was beef between Artosis and KwarK before this thread was opened, and I'd bet many/most others didn't know either. I came to dislike and criticize his behavior all on my own, and so did many others who've watched his streams and decided it's not for them. With Artosis being an ambassador of the game I think he's doing much harm to the scene, and that's why I decided to throw my hat in the ring.
The argument I'm hearing is that "Artosis generally creates a negative atmosphere, he's not singling anyone out". Ok, that makes it better. Wait, what?
I guess Artosis has the enormous privilege of having a high status in the community due to his most active days as a commentator working alongside the legendary Tasteless, who had paved the way for him. Must be nice to be so immune to criticism thanks to both nostalgic and fresh fans. No matter how you wanna look at it, the foreign BW scene would be dead without Artosis (i witnessed this 1st hand even post SCR, before he streamed). BSL wouldn't be BSL had Artosis not started streaming BW full time, the player base/viewer base would be much lower. So yes he's in a different position, regardless of whether or not you like/dislike how he acts on stream, you need to respect what he does for the game as a whole. It's the same type of mindset you should have as a player. No matter who your opponent is and how they play you should still respect him for giving you the opportunity to play the game, without an opponent there would be no one to play. I respect Artosis for his positive contributions to the game, and I criticize him for his negative contributions. Artosis the commentator is a force for good. Artosis the streamer almost exclusively spreads negativity. Criticism of Artosis remains valid regardless of his good aspects. We don't have to accept his constant negativity just because he's also sometimes positive. Furthermore I strictly do not believe that the foreign scene would be dead without him. That claim does nothing but further his superiority complex. I'd argue that his negativity has caused a number of people to invest less into the game because he spreads so much negativity, directly but also indirectly (as a role model). This is not a myth, it's well-known that a negative environment causes people to leave, and those who stay to be less invested, even if the activity itself would be fun in principle. Lastly, I consider it ironic that Artosis' fanboys criticize the criticism of Artosis, indicating that they're not happy when criticism negatively impacts the fun they're having, but not self-aware enough to realize their double standard. This is what i don't understand with a lot of Artosis fanboys, if they don't like his critics they can just not listen to them, just ignore them. Hmm...
Yes people are entitled to form opinions and dislike/like whoever they want, I'm not saying otherwise. That's how the world is, you can't control who likes or dislikes you for being yourself. The issue with what you're saying is, for some reason you think he should adhere to your moral standards and you shoebox him as if you're an authority on ethics. Why? Not everyone shares the same values as you do, it's all a matter of perspective.
If you think what he's doing is negative (this is where everyone is entitled to have their own opinion) he's ultimately gonna end up hurting himself by having people dislike him. As a public figure that's not a great thing, yes? So let him worry about that.
Btw i like/value both KwarK and Artosis for their genuine passion for the game (that's what we all have in common), they know this based on our chat interactions. I don't know them well enough personally to make an assessment of them on a personal level.. but i value what they both bring to the scene in their own way. That said, i know both of their competitive characters well enough to know that they're not the type of players to get along with one another  . And that's fine, that's the spice of life.
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What moral standards are you talking about? I think Artosis is being excessively mean to people and creating a negative environment.
Morality... lmao
I don't even understand your motivation. You're criticizing me for doing the thing that you're doing right now by criticizing my criticism of Artosis, while claiming you don't understand why I'm criticizing him.
Critiception.
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Excessively mean is a matter of perspective... creating a negative environment for who? I've actually brought this issue up with him in the past from the POV of it hurting his gameplay. He's aware of it but it's hard to change who you are, this is his competitive nature.
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"This is who he is" is not a valid defense of a personal flaw.
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On May 05 2022 15:08 Magic Powers wrote:
"This is who he is" is not a valid defense of a personal flaw.
This is where me and you differ, i accept him for who he is, that's the starting point. Progress can't be made if you shut someone out. You don't know how much we've talked about this topic in the past, he's aware of everything you dislike about him. Not because he cares about what you think about him, because it hurts him as a competitor.
It's not easy to put yourself out there in front of thousands of people to see your competitive nature and have them judge your perceived flaws. The hard part is doing something about it, bettering yourself, using those same emotions (because everyone has them, if you don't think they do you haven't experienced true competition) in a more productive/constructive way, that's not an easy thing to do. He knows about all this and reads a lot on this topic as well. Like in SC, knowledge is only the first step, the execution is the hard part.
We all have completely different life experiences, you shouldn't be quick to judge/shoebox someone when you can't view their life from their perspective. The funny thing is, you're basically doing the same thing he does in-game, instead you're doing it to talk about his character on a chat forum. What you do is easy, I'm sure it feels gratifying too huh? Moral superiority.. even if it's at subconscious level.
Life lesson buddy, perspective matters a lot, more than anything else in the world tbh. If we can't understand each other we can't help one another. We end up hating each other instead. What we're talking about is childish baby shit compared to the atrocities going on in the world.
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"Other things in life are much worse than this" is also not a valid defense of a personal flaw.
I'm not quick to judge Artosis, many people have been observing his outbursts for the past few years. There are hundreds of clips out there showing his behavior. Just a few days ago I tuned into one of his streams and to no surprise I found him misplaying a TvT and berating (i.e. sending text to) his opponent, while said opponent did no more and no less than gain a well-deserved victory. This is not made up, that was just recently. Another time also recently he tried to berate a player by means of chat, several minutes after the game had concluded. Holy smokes.
And that's only the tip of the iceberg. Of course he pretty much always berates players verbally on his stream, I guess they're lucky they don't have to hear that.
You did a lot of relativizing here in Artosis' favor, and KwarK also had to correct you on your version of events. I don't think this is an area where you are more qualified than others to determine what people should or shouldn't say about Artosis.
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On May 05 2022 11:11 TT1 wrote:
I'm a purist so I always look at stuff like this from an entertainment/competitive lens, I love it. Players are always gonna like/dislike other players, that's what makes the competitive scene juicy. You just can't take this stuff personally, what happens in-game stays in-game.
I shouldnt take it personal when he keeps telling his audience that I cheat?
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He has a generally shitty personality and thinks he is a god in every regard.
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I thought I'd read a blog from Kwark some time ago where he had 120 apm but said strategy beats apm sometimes. Now I read he's S rank in this thread. Who are you!? You seem more and more like an international man of mystery to me lol
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On May 05 2022 13:06 Jumperer wrote:
The only way to settle this beef is with $10000 Kwark vs Artosis bo69 BSL wrestlemania showmatch with tt1 casting.
10k usd is a bit too much xD but there is only one way to sort this shit out. Battle to the death in a bo7 BW match ffs lets do it!!!!
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On May 05 2022 19:28 Oystein wrote:Show nested quote +On May 05 2022 11:11 TT1 wrote:
I'm a purist so I always look at stuff like this from an entertainment/competitive lens, I love it. Players are always gonna like/dislike other players, that's what makes the competitive scene juicy. You just can't take this stuff personally, what happens in-game stays in-game. I shouldnt take it personal when he keeps telling his audience that I cheat?
it already reached a personal lvl for both of you so that's up to you to decide, it takes 2 to get there tho
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EPT
