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On January 29 2020 05:47 JJH777 wrote:
This is not much different than Lambo saying all Koreans are bad at ZvZ. Or the multitude of EU players who say the NA scene is bad. Maybe slightly worse since he actually named some players while the previous statements are vague but it's not that much different.
I do think it is blown out of proportion, however it is much worse than that. It's not about groups of players being bad at a matchup, it is about a few individual players being lazy, getting free money, and not deserving the professional career that they have.
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On a scale of 1 to Life this is about a 2 on the drama meter. Move along.
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Guys, Don t say someone is mentally ill,if you never even met that person irl! (Unless it s Trump I gues)
It s just as insulting as what Nate sayed there.
I m pretty sure, he now knows that he was wrong and actually tries to be less toxic. Yes it was unprofessionall. Should he lose his Job for that? Probably not. It s not up to us.
He s not my favorite caster either, but calls like that are just wrong
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Nathanias has always been a salt factory on his stream. Personally, I don't really enjoy that but comparing him to Avilo or calling him mentally ill goes way too far. He's doing a fine job as host @ big events, so I don't really see a point in boarding the hate train. Just don't tune into his stream.
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The only thing that was inappropriate was singling out lambo as a patch Zerg. He is one but it's wrong for a caster to call out an individual as one. And the personal attack was wrong.
The raging is fine. Has no one watched bw artosis?
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well hes not wrong. So many of these patch zergs would not have the status that they have within the game if they were playing the other race. I started playing zerg after the patch and still caught up to my Terran MMR without knowing a single build or have any sort of timing attack. I just took bases and reacted to the units I saw coming. Someone with strong mechanics playing zerg SHOULD have a much higher ceiling than if they were playing Terran / Protoss...its just the truth.
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I think Nathanias's casting has been great, but the name slurring isn't cool I think we can all agree on that.
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I'm pretty shocked to see people defending what Nathanias is doing here. This is honestly not that complicated:
1. What Nathanias said was wrong and disrespectful. Plain and simple. Say whatever you want about Lambo's relative skill level, but he's not some lowly patch Zerg, and it's hard to even know what to think with Nathanias casually throwing Scarlett's name in there. He claims to be kidding when it's convenient for him to avoid responsibility, but if you spend any amount of time in his stream, you know he isn't. I tried to gently provide some feedback on this topic in his stream from the perspective of a disappointed fan, and all he did was offer up excuses, justifications, and deflections.
2. This is not about free speech and the "right" to have an opinion. If you are a caster, commentator, or otherwise a community leader, you need to take some responsibility for what it is your are saying publicly. Sure, you have every right to say it. And the community has every right to call you out. Does anyone have any doubt that if football or basketball commentator spoke this way about pros in their scenes, they would face immediate, harsh professional sanctions? The SC2 community should hold itself to similar standards.
3. Whether there should be some degree of accountability for his actions beyond a demand for a genuine apology is a more complicated question. But I will say this. If I were Lambo, Scarlett, Denver, or any other foreign Zerg, I would not feel comfortable with Nathanias casting or commenting on my games. I certainly would not feel that he could do so fairly and objectively. It might even impact the way I play. Nathanias does not have some God-given right to cast and commentate games, and there are so many amazing casters out there who carry themselves quite professionally and would love to have some more opportunities.
4. Nathanias's response to all this is in my opinion quite immature and, frankly, embarrassing. To claim that this is all just a witchhunt, and offer disingenuous apologies in which he doubles down on his insults, deflects onto other people, and offers a number of other excuses and justifications, is beyond unprofessional. All he needed to do was apologize, commit to being better, and leave it at that. At one point in his stream yesterday he even admitted that the only reason he "embarrassed himself" by apologizing was that he hoped it would help him in the public discourse. When he saw that it was backfiring, he said he probably made a mistake by apologizing at all. His apology clearly isn't genuine, though ironically a genuine apology is all anyone would have really needed to move on.
5. I'm sure this sounds like I'm against Nathanias, but honestly I consider myself a fan of his. I really enjoy his commentary, casting, and analysis. He is funny as hell, and I'm sure a really good guy. I play Terran too, so I can empathize with some of his frustrations (though I'm bound to suck no matter what race I play lol). I promise I lose way more games to Zergs than he does!!! All that said, what he did here is very disappointing, and I think he is continuing to let his fans down by carrying on like this.
In sum: let's be better, and hold leaders in this community to a higher standard.
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I have the impression Nathanias is not joking. So I dont know how to take him serious as a caster anymore with that lack of rational thinking and attacking others in the community. Well and he seems to be a complete prick.
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People that immediately think statements like Nathanias's deserve firing over are low-lives.
How many of you have ever considered maybe you're exceptionally thin-skinned?
As pathetic as I think many of you are, it's more pathetic seeing Nathanias apparently kowtow when called out on it.
Maybe he would've apologized on his own. Maybe he wouldn't have. What's it to you?
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On January 29 2020 07:18 MatteDaemon wrote:
People that immediately think statements like Nathanias's deserve firing over are low-lives.
How many of you have ever considered that maybe you're exceptionally thin-skinned?
As pathetic as I think many of you are, it's more pathetic seeing Nathanias apparently kowtow to apology requests.
Maybe he would've apologized without prompting. Maybe he wouldn't have. What's it to you?
Immediately jumping to "fire the guy!" is definitely an overreaction, but it's totally reasonable to want a genuine apology. And it does matter what he says and how he carries himself, because they guy represents the game in official and semi-official capacities. People might be thin-skinned, but if you haven't asked yourself if there's anything that he could say that would prompt you to want a genuine, public apology, that's a good place to start before you start with the name-calling.
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Personally I dont care the slightest about aplogizing. It is not like there has been just some off remark. He has frequently tried to discredit zerg players, saying they are stealing money from terrans, they dont deserve having a career etc.
So yeah if some randoms on the internet go down to his level and say he should not have a career either I dont think anyone should be surprised.
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Nathanias has always been a a d-bag and a crap commentator. However, he is free to say whatever he wants. The day we start punishing people for speech is the day we've ended as a species
And lets not pretend he isn't slightly right. Zerg has a few of the best mechanical players, but a lot of what we might consider B-tier pros are only that way because they play a race that's been broken for years at this point.
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On January 29 2020 07:27 GreasedUpDeafGuy wrote:
Nathanias has always been a a d-bag and a crap commentator. However, he is free to say whatever he wants. The day we start punishing people for speech is the day we've ended as a species
It's not a "punishment" to call someone out. No one has the right to say stupid stuff and expect everyone to silently accept it. Similarly, my understanding is that these casting and commentating gigs are contract gigs that are often negotiated tourney-by-tourney. If that's the case, no one has a right to a future contract, and it's not a punishment to refuse to give someone a contract if you feel there's someone else better suited to the gig. Whenever someone says dumb stuff, people come out to defend it on "free speech" grounds. But the concept just doesn't apply here.
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Lol. I really don't care about a guy having uncomfortable opinions in his personal streaming. If he were constantly whining while casting that would be annoying but as is, I haven't heard anything from him there other than playful jabs maybe.
What's way more disgusting to me are weasels like that Ian McDonald guy who want to bring in employers immediately or OP who says Nathianas should apologize, then link twitter posts where he already is apologizing and then finish their post by basically saying he should lose his job regardless. Seriously, I would like to write more about what kind of people these guys are, but mods don't allow anything here so I won't.
And btw, let's rationally look at the thing with Lambo. The guy only ever got far at major events when zerg was really strong and then also immediately developed a very high opinion of himself. I heard he also called koreans stupid for going for unneccesary risks or something, even though these koreans have had 100 times the success he had. I don't know how far he went, but he certainly always seemed quite cocky to me. So a guy like that shouldn't be so thin-skinned.
So yeah, I'd be extremely disappointed if he loses his casting spot because of opinions that are probably objectively true.
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On January 29 2020 07:27 GreasedUpDeafGuy wrote:
Nathanias has always been a a d-bag and a crap commentator. However, he is free to say whatever he wants. The day we start punishing people for speech is the day we've ended as a species
And lets not pretend he isn't slightly right. Zerg has a few of the best mechanical players, but a lot of what we might consider B-tier pros are only that way because they play a race that's been broken for years at this point.
+1 post.
And slightly right is an understatement. He's 100% right, he just said it in a socially inappropriate way. Doesn't distract from his message of Zerg being broken for more than 2 years.
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It's quite embarassing that a official caster insults the players.
That said, he is terran and most terran posters if not all act like this a bit like the human players in war3.
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On January 29 2020 07:34 rwala wrote:Show nested quote +On January 29 2020 07:27 GreasedUpDeafGuy wrote:
Nathanias has always been a a d-bag and a crap commentator. However, he is free to say whatever he wants. The day we start punishing people for speech is the day we've ended as a species It's not a "punishment" to call someone out. No one has the right to say stupid stuff and expect everyone to silently accept it. Similarly, my understanding is that these casting and commentating gigs are contract gigs that are often negotiated tourney-by-tourney. If that's the case, no one has a right to a future contract, and it's not a punishment to refuse to give someone a contract if you feel there's someone else better suited to the gig. Whenever someone says dumb stuff, people come out to defend it on "free speech" grounds. But the concept just doesn't apply here.
No one has a right to a contract period. A contract is that, a contract. When its up, its up. If someone wants to make a new one with you they can or they cant' People like you or me don't get to decide that, the two parties do. Grow up
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EPT
