|
This started yesterday with Nathanias attacking professional players and constantly balance whining on his stream. It's gotten so bad he's honestly Avilo 2.0 at this point.
http://twitter.com/LamboSC2/status/1221850643884843008?s=19
And then we get this from Nathanias this morning:
http://twitter.com/nathanias/status/1222182614749958144?s=19
Nathanias should honestly lose his spot as a commentator and analyst for SC2. The occasional whine is fine but he goes as far as to personally attacking professional players and shitting on the game. We don't need him when we have so many other casters available. He's basically acting like Avilo.
He needs to get his mental health checked. It's no joke.
Edit: I mean the last line as that the way he talks and rants about it and then engaging on Twitter suggests there's an underlying issue. I don't mean it in a derogatory way. I apologize for the misunderstanding. I know quite a few people who have some mental health issues and it's no joke. The anxiety and sudden emotional changes they go through is serious.
|
|
|
Yeah I'm not a fan of this guy, and he's pretty toxic. Don't get how he actually casts anything with some of the rants I've seen from him when I've turned his stream on personally. I wouldn't say he's as bad as Avilo though, not even close... I think that guy is mentally ill.
|
He probably does have some issues managing his anger, but I don't think this warrants a thread nor "losing a spot as a commentator and analyst for SC2".
I don't think him being a "public" figure means he can't give his personal opinion on a player and / or state of the game.
Maybe word it different, sure, but come on, don't get offended by everything.
|
Nathanias apologized but not in a very convincing way, in my opinion; he's not close to Avilo level, in any of case.
He should be free to share his opinions about players choosing more appropriate words and less insulting concepts.
|
This kind of cancel culture response to someone giving a salty opinion on his stream is just ridiculous. First off, to say Lambo is a mediocre pro Zerg is not that insulting. Look at his results, look at his prize winnings, he's not a top tier player, and it shouldn't be taken as an insult. Heck, he is like #93 on esportsearnings for SC2, with people like Vortix and Liquid Bunny ahead of him, both who have been retired for some time.
To call for someones job when he agrees with a twitch chatter saying Lambo is a patch Zerg makes no sense. SC2 has always been filled with blunt personalities who are never scared to call a region (NA) or it's players complete garbage. Oh and by the way he apologized, albeit not to your liking, is it really worth your time to call for his future opportunities when he's been nothing but professional on the stage when he was being paid for his time?
|
Canada8989 Posts
Oh come on at some point, I get that he shouldn't have said it, but can we not just shit on the guy forever. At some point both him and Lambo are adults, they can solve this by themselves. (altought having mediators wouls be nice, but I guess we'll have to wait until there's a union) I mean honestly if we did that everytime someone called Rogue a shitty patchzerg we would have stone half the caster in the scene. In any case throwing buckets at Nate seems pretty disproportionate
Also, avilo is basicly a sexual predator lets no go there.
|
I genuinely laugh out loud. I mean come on this is SC2 community. Balance whining is expected and it is the good, bad and ugly of this community. The pro bashing is certainly unwanted from Nate though. That's his opinion and he is just a personality in the community. I wouldn't care what he said and neither should you. You don't like him. Don't watch his stream. I don't.
|
On January 29 2020 04:09 geokilla wrote:
Nathanias should honestly lose his spot as a commentator and analyst for SC2.
meh, Nathanias is ok. ease up guys.
the sentence in the quoted snippet doesn't need the word "honestly" in it. this word adds nothing. when people throw "honestly" into their speech i often wonder if i'm being lied to ... or if ... on some level ... the speaker/author is struggling with being 100% authentic.
On January 29 2020 04:09 geokilla wrote:
he's honestly Avilo 2.0 at this point.
another random insertion of the word "honestly" that adds nothing.
there is only 1 Avilo. Nathanias does not resemble Avilo.
|
Since he's talking about a pro player who he could end up casting one day, this seems unwise on Nathanias' part. Talking about competitors who you (at some point) may have a professional obligation to treat fairly seems like a poor choice.
Idk the deal with Lambo/Nathanias, so maybe Nathanias' dig warranted to some extent, but I doubt it.
|
I was hoping this random drama would just stay on reddit, oh well
|
Nobody needs to lose their job tbf, but I don't get why everyone is focused on the fact he called someone patchzerg, the part he should apologize about is calling a pro player a lazy pothead that doesn't take his job seriously imo.
That part was bad. But I hope they discussed privately and that's why he's joking this morning.
If they did not discuss it privately in a more mature way, I think he needs to work on his apologizing skills.
|
On January 29 2020 04:39 Nakajin wrote:
Also, avilo is basicly a sexual predator lets no go there.
i don't pay much if any attention to sc2 drama (or gaming drama in general) but this caught my eye.
is there a story behind this or is it just a random insult? cause that's a pretty serious accusation.
|
Nathanias didn't attack anyone. All of us have moments when we get mad and make comments that are not meant to offend.
He has already said that he is sorry for what he said and that he shouldn't have done it. Isn't that enough?
Besides he basically just agreed with a comment in twitch chat...can't he express his opinion?
You haters should keep your mouth shut and worry about your own life.
|
Just lol really.
Hes a personality! Hes one of the chosen ones who people listen to to tell them what they should also think about the game!
Why do you even care?
Ill remember the awkward apex cast a few months ago . .christ, lets get back to natahnias and some other dude (give 8 secs to say nothing) back to the desk. lol.
edit
just to add to the guy who said saying 'honestly' whilst writing IS exactly my gripe with modern day communication.
Throw in the worlds. 'literally', 'whhhaaaat', 'technically'
and
'yeah, but no', 'but seriously'
for me, you disqualify yourself from adult conversation.
|
On January 29 2020 04:09 geokilla wrote:This started yesterday with Nathanias attacking professional players and constantly balance whining on his stream. It's gotten so bad he's honestly Avilo 2.0 at this point. http://twitter.com/LamboSC2/status/1221850643884843008?s=19And then we get this from Nathanias this morning: http://twitter.com/nathanias/status/1222182614749958144?s=19Nathanias should honestly lose his spot as a commentator and analyst for SC2. The occasional whine is fine but he goes as far as to personally attacking professional players and shitting on the game. We don't need him when we have so many other casters available. He's basically acting like Avilo. He needs to get his mental health checked. It's no joke.
I'd rather hear it from the commentators and on-screen personalities than the pros. The proper response is to laugh or wonder who the fuck cares about his thoughts.
And he's spent the entire rest of the time groveling, apparently. I guess mission accomplished.
And he gave the obvious disclaimer for mad sc2 fans that take everything too literally.
Seriously grow up, geokilla. You obviously excuse yourself for things you criticize in others, since you can type
"he's honestly Avilo 2.0 at this point."
"He needs to get his mental health checked. It's no joke."
The only posters I genuinely credit for wanting a kinder, gentler SC2 trash talking scene are those who can personally avoid it in their own speech. You can dish it out, so learn to receive it a little better too. I wager dozens to hundreds of people here can remember IdrA and sometimes Naniwa and can have a good laugh at what qualifies for outrageous balance whines nowadays. It's also boring as hell when you can't allow the color commentators exaggerating for humor, even while detecting they have some opinion on balance behind it all.
|
United States33339 Posts
They should just cast a match together and hash it out on-air 
|
gosh this is stupid, lets just fire everyone for saying something when they're salty and raging so we can no one in the scene just like we want
|
This is not much different than Lambo saying all Koreans are bad at ZvZ. Or the multitude of EU players who say the NA scene is bad. Maybe slightly worse since he actually named some players while the previous statements are vague but it's not that much different.
|
Canada8989 Posts
On January 29 2020 05:07 Schelim wrote:Show nested quote +On January 29 2020 04:39 Nakajin wrote:
Also, avilo is basicly a sexual predator lets no go there.
i don't pay much if any attention to sc2 drama (or gaming drama in general) but this caught my eye. is there a story behind this or is it just a random insult? cause that's a pretty serious accusation.
Maybe a bit of a reach, but he got charged (and I think convicted) on harrasment charge, he kept messaging and tracking down the home some girl he once knew.
And I feel like I remember him showing up at her place?
Can't say I kept to much with it myself, so maybe I should stop there, maybe I'm wrong.
|
On January 29 2020 05:47 JJH777 wrote:
This is not much different than Lambo saying all Koreans are bad at ZvZ. Or the multitude of EU players who say the NA scene is bad. Maybe slightly worse since he actually named some players while the previous statements are vague but it's not that much different.
I do think it is blown out of proportion, however it is much worse than that. It's not about groups of players being bad at a matchup, it is about a few individual players being lazy, getting free money, and not deserving the professional career that they have.
|
On a scale of 1 to Life this is about a 2 on the drama meter. Move along.
|
Guys, Don t say someone is mentally ill,if you never even met that person irl! (Unless it s Trump I gues)
It s just as insulting as what Nate sayed there.
I m pretty sure, he now knows that he was wrong and actually tries to be less toxic. Yes it was unprofessionall. Should he lose his Job for that? Probably not. It s not up to us.
He s not my favorite caster either, but calls like that are just wrong
|
Nathanias has always been a salt factory on his stream. Personally, I don't really enjoy that but comparing him to Avilo or calling him mentally ill goes way too far. He's doing a fine job as host @ big events, so I don't really see a point in boarding the hate train. Just don't tune into his stream.
|
The only thing that was inappropriate was singling out lambo as a patch Zerg. He is one but it's wrong for a caster to call out an individual as one. And the personal attack was wrong.
The raging is fine. Has no one watched bw artosis?
|
well hes not wrong. So many of these patch zergs would not have the status that they have within the game if they were playing the other race. I started playing zerg after the patch and still caught up to my Terran MMR without knowing a single build or have any sort of timing attack. I just took bases and reacted to the units I saw coming. Someone with strong mechanics playing zerg SHOULD have a much higher ceiling than if they were playing Terran / Protoss...its just the truth.
|
I think Nathanias's casting has been great, but the name slurring isn't cool I think we can all agree on that.
|
I'm pretty shocked to see people defending what Nathanias is doing here. This is honestly not that complicated:
1. What Nathanias said was wrong and disrespectful. Plain and simple. Say whatever you want about Lambo's relative skill level, but he's not some lowly patch Zerg, and it's hard to even know what to think with Nathanias casually throwing Scarlett's name in there. He claims to be kidding when it's convenient for him to avoid responsibility, but if you spend any amount of time in his stream, you know he isn't. I tried to gently provide some feedback on this topic in his stream from the perspective of a disappointed fan, and all he did was offer up excuses, justifications, and deflections.
2. This is not about free speech and the "right" to have an opinion. If you are a caster, commentator, or otherwise a community leader, you need to take some responsibility for what it is your are saying publicly. Sure, you have every right to say it. And the community has every right to call you out. Does anyone have any doubt that if football or basketball commentator spoke this way about pros in their scenes, they would face immediate, harsh professional sanctions? The SC2 community should hold itself to similar standards.
3. Whether there should be some degree of accountability for his actions beyond a demand for a genuine apology is a more complicated question. But I will say this. If I were Lambo, Scarlett, Denver, or any other foreign Zerg, I would not feel comfortable with Nathanias casting or commenting on my games. I certainly would not feel that he could do so fairly and objectively. It might even impact the way I play. Nathanias does not have some God-given right to cast and commentate games, and there are so many amazing casters out there who carry themselves quite professionally and would love to have some more opportunities.
4. Nathanias's response to all this is in my opinion quite immature and, frankly, embarrassing. To claim that this is all just a witchhunt, and offer disingenuous apologies in which he doubles down on his insults, deflects onto other people, and offers a number of other excuses and justifications, is beyond unprofessional. All he needed to do was apologize, commit to being better, and leave it at that. At one point in his stream yesterday he even admitted that the only reason he "embarrassed himself" by apologizing was that he hoped it would help him in the public discourse. When he saw that it was backfiring, he said he probably made a mistake by apologizing at all. His apology clearly isn't genuine, though ironically a genuine apology is all anyone would have really needed to move on.
5. I'm sure this sounds like I'm against Nathanias, but honestly I consider myself a fan of his. I really enjoy his commentary, casting, and analysis. He is funny as hell, and I'm sure a really good guy. I play Terran too, so I can empathize with some of his frustrations (though I'm bound to suck no matter what race I play lol). I promise I lose way more games to Zergs than he does!!! All that said, what he did here is very disappointing, and I think he is continuing to let his fans down by carrying on like this.
In sum: let's be better, and hold leaders in this community to a higher standard.
|
I have the impression Nathanias is not joking. So I dont know how to take him serious as a caster anymore with that lack of rational thinking and attacking others in the community. Well and he seems to be a complete prick.
|
People that immediately think statements like Nathanias's deserve firing over are low-lives.
How many of you have ever considered maybe you're exceptionally thin-skinned?
As pathetic as I think many of you are, it's more pathetic seeing Nathanias apparently kowtow when called out on it.
Maybe he would've apologized on his own. Maybe he wouldn't have. What's it to you?
|
On January 29 2020 07:18 MatteDaemon wrote:
People that immediately think statements like Nathanias's deserve firing over are low-lives.
How many of you have ever considered that maybe you're exceptionally thin-skinned?
As pathetic as I think many of you are, it's more pathetic seeing Nathanias apparently kowtow to apology requests.
Maybe he would've apologized without prompting. Maybe he wouldn't have. What's it to you?
Immediately jumping to "fire the guy!" is definitely an overreaction, but it's totally reasonable to want a genuine apology. And it does matter what he says and how he carries himself, because they guy represents the game in official and semi-official capacities. People might be thin-skinned, but if you haven't asked yourself if there's anything that he could say that would prompt you to want a genuine, public apology, that's a good place to start before you start with the name-calling.
|
Personally I dont care the slightest about aplogizing. It is not like there has been just some off remark. He has frequently tried to discredit zerg players, saying they are stealing money from terrans, they dont deserve having a career etc.
So yeah if some randoms on the internet go down to his level and say he should not have a career either I dont think anyone should be surprised.
|
Nathanias has always been a a d-bag and a crap commentator. However, he is free to say whatever he wants. The day we start punishing people for speech is the day we've ended as a species
And lets not pretend he isn't slightly right. Zerg has a few of the best mechanical players, but a lot of what we might consider B-tier pros are only that way because they play a race that's been broken for years at this point.
|
On January 29 2020 07:27 GreasedUpDeafGuy wrote:
Nathanias has always been a a d-bag and a crap commentator. However, he is free to say whatever he wants. The day we start punishing people for speech is the day we've ended as a species
It's not a "punishment" to call someone out. No one has the right to say stupid stuff and expect everyone to silently accept it. Similarly, my understanding is that these casting and commentating gigs are contract gigs that are often negotiated tourney-by-tourney. If that's the case, no one has a right to a future contract, and it's not a punishment to refuse to give someone a contract if you feel there's someone else better suited to the gig. Whenever someone says dumb stuff, people come out to defend it on "free speech" grounds. But the concept just doesn't apply here.
|
|
|
Lol. I really don't care about a guy having uncomfortable opinions in his personal streaming. If he were constantly whining while casting that would be annoying but as is, I haven't heard anything from him there other than playful jabs maybe.
What's way more disgusting to me are weasels like that Ian McDonald guy who want to bring in employers immediately or OP who says Nathianas should apologize, then link twitter posts where he already is apologizing and then finish their post by basically saying he should lose his job regardless. Seriously, I would like to write more about what kind of people these guys are, but mods don't allow anything here so I won't.
And btw, let's rationally look at the thing with Lambo. The guy only ever got far at major events when zerg was really strong and then also immediately developed a very high opinion of himself. I heard he also called koreans stupid for going for unneccesary risks or something, even though these koreans have had 100 times the success he had. I don't know how far he went, but he certainly always seemed quite cocky to me. So a guy like that shouldn't be so thin-skinned.
So yeah, I'd be extremely disappointed if he loses his casting spot because of opinions that are probably objectively true.
|
On January 29 2020 07:27 GreasedUpDeafGuy wrote:
Nathanias has always been a a d-bag and a crap commentator. However, he is free to say whatever he wants. The day we start punishing people for speech is the day we've ended as a species
And lets not pretend he isn't slightly right. Zerg has a few of the best mechanical players, but a lot of what we might consider B-tier pros are only that way because they play a race that's been broken for years at this point.
+1 post.
And slightly right is an understatement. He's 100% right, he just said it in a socially inappropriate way. Doesn't distract from his message of Zerg being broken for more than 2 years.
|
|
|
It's quite embarassing that a official caster insults the players.
That said, he is terran and most terran posters if not all act like this a bit like the human players in war3.
|
On January 29 2020 07:34 rwala wrote:Show nested quote +On January 29 2020 07:27 GreasedUpDeafGuy wrote:
Nathanias has always been a a d-bag and a crap commentator. However, he is free to say whatever he wants. The day we start punishing people for speech is the day we've ended as a species It's not a "punishment" to call someone out. No one has the right to say stupid stuff and expect everyone to silently accept it. Similarly, my understanding is that these casting and commentating gigs are contract gigs that are often negotiated tourney-by-tourney. If that's the case, no one has a right to a future contract, and it's not a punishment to refuse to give someone a contract if you feel there's someone else better suited to the gig. Whenever someone says dumb stuff, people come out to defend it on "free speech" grounds. But the concept just doesn't apply here.
No one has a right to a contract period. A contract is that, a contract. When its up, its up. If someone wants to make a new one with you they can or they cant' People like you or me don't get to decide that, the two parties do. Grow up
|
On January 29 2020 04:09 geokilla wrote:This started yesterday with Nathanias attacking professional players and constantly balance whining on his stream. It's gotten so bad he's honestly Avilo 2.0 at this point. http://twitter.com/LamboSC2/status/1221850643884843008?s=19And then we get this from Nathanias this morning: http://twitter.com/nathanias/status/1222182614749958144?s=19Nathanias should honestly lose his spot as a commentator and analyst for SC2. The occasional whine is fine but he goes as far as to personally attacking professional players and shitting on the game. We don't need him when we have so many other casters available. He's basically acting like Avilo. He needs to get his mental health checked. It's no joke.
Just cuz someone speaks his mind he needs to be flammed? What Nate said is true, zerg is easy to play, lambo isnt that great of a player compared to other pros thats the truth deal with it.
|
You guys understand if this happened in pro sports, that person wouldn't have a job right? There's trash talk, and then there's personal attacks.
|
It's a bit ironic, all these terran apologist bringing up the "thin skinned" and then I read this kind of generic apologies "I have a shitty behavior since x years because anxiety", it's crazy how in the anglosaxon world everything might be forgivable because of anxiety. Eeveryone has it, it isn't a justification for anything.
|
Everyone here calling for Nate to lose his job are cynical opportunists who want to use some little drama to remove a beloved member of the SC community. You people are spoiled children who would rather feed your petty hatred for Nate than enjoy Starcraft. Stay mad nerds.
|
On January 29 2020 07:18 MatteDaemon wrote:
People that immediately think statements like Nathanias's deserve firing over are low-lives.
How many of you have ever considered maybe you're exceptionally thin-skinned?
As pathetic as I think many of you are, it's more pathetic seeing Nathanias apparently kowtow when called out on it.
Maybe he would've apologized on his own. Maybe he wouldn't have. What's it to you?
I really like that arguement, if I hit someone "lightly" by my definition it would be very overly sensitive of that person to prosecute me for battery wouldn't it, totally out of line.
Sorry but you don't get to define what is "acceptable" verbal assault, maybe you are exceptionally thick skinned. Should everyone have to endure the same as you just because you are thick skinned? Imagine if the opposite was true or if we were talking about physical assault and endurance of pain.
I think this drama is overblown but I also don't believe Nathanias is the type of person I want to represent the game. Do you think its good for the community and health of the game to have a caster and host publically talk shit about players and the balance of the game. Imagine a soccer caster started openly claiming one of the players were using doping.... Without proof, should he lose his job? Yeah probably because its a bad look on him, the sport and everything around it.
|
On January 29 2020 08:05 geokilla wrote:
You guys understand if this happened in pro sports, that person wouldn't have a job right? There's trash talk, and then there's personal attacks.
No, they don't. You're actually onto something interesting here. Many in the SC2 community desperately want more respect within the e-sports community, and are in constant fear of the dedgaem prophecy coming true....but aren't willing to uphold the basic norms of professionalism that are essential for any pro scene to survive, let alone thrive.
|
This is pretty hilarious to me. What is it with this "Someone said something stupid let's ruin their entire life" nonsense? Come on. I understand if you don't like him. I'm not a fan of Nathanias. Nothing against him personally, just not my cup of tea. He's put more time, energy, and passion into this scene than most people at this point. He shouldn't say what he's saying, should apologize, and not make these kinds of comments in the future. But ruining the life he's built? lmfao. come on.
I know it's 2020 now and times have changed but the level of trash talk we had back in the early / mid 2000's, and especially the early SC2 scene (2010-2011) make this look like the most tame thing in the world. Cut the guy a break. He didn't threaten to utilize a tire iron in a grotesque way or anything.
|
On January 29 2020 08:05 geokilla wrote:
You guys understand if this happened in pro sports, that person wouldn't have a job right? There's trash talk, and then there's personal attacks.
You understand that in some cultures personal attacks result in duels to the death.
|
I was hoping he'd get ousted from the community more just because I think he's really annoying and am tired of hearing his bitching. Hopefully he does this six or seven more times and we can be done with him
|
On January 29 2020 08:40 gophersnake wrote:
I was hoping he'd get ousted from the community more just because I think he's really annoying and am tired of hearing his bitching. Hopefully he does this six or seven more times and we can be done with him
That's the problem with your statements. You come here to talk about someone you already find "annoying" and that you think "bitches a lot".
You just jumped on the hate train the first chance you had. Should someone loose is job because of one comment?? Hum??
This is esports, it is not politics.
|
On January 29 2020 07:51 GreasedUpDeafGuy wrote:Show nested quote +On January 29 2020 07:34 rwala wrote:On January 29 2020 07:27 GreasedUpDeafGuy wrote:
Nathanias has always been a a d-bag and a crap commentator. However, he is free to say whatever he wants. The day we start punishing people for speech is the day we've ended as a species It's not a "punishment" to call someone out. No one has the right to say stupid stuff and expect everyone to silently accept it. Similarly, my understanding is that these casting and commentating gigs are contract gigs that are often negotiated tourney-by-tourney. If that's the case, no one has a right to a future contract, and it's not a punishment to refuse to give someone a contract if you feel there's someone else better suited to the gig. Whenever someone says dumb stuff, people come out to defend it on "free speech" grounds. But the concept just doesn't apply here. No one has a right to a contract period. A contract is that, a contract. When its up, its up. If someone wants to make a new one with you they can or they cant' People like you or me don't get to decide that, the two parties do. Grow up
Right. So I think you agree that it's not "punishment" for a tourney organizer to decide to go in a different direction and book different commentators and casters if that's what they want to do. And of course people like you and I don't get to decide that (never said otherwise). That is like literally by definition true because we aren't part of the negotiating parties. Not sure what point you're even trying to make here. FWIW, I think if Nate would have just straight up apologized, at least pretended to be genuine about it, and left it at that, we wouldn't even be having this conversation. But given his approach, I'd honestly be quite surprised if this isn't impacting his career prospects. But that's on him. This is all because of how he has chosen to handle this.
p.s. I'm like 37 now, so I'm kinda grown up. Except that apparently I still post on computer game forums.
|
he's mentally ill because he said something mean on stream??
Obviously he shouldn't say that as a caster and the discussion whether he should lose his job is legitimate but don't call someone mentally ill for something so minor, that's stupid
|
I'm not sure why this is considered inflammatory. Unless you own stock in Bizzard, you probably shouldn't be pretending that 10+ years of results have happened solely as a product of the best non-Korean players all coincidentally choosing the same, specific race.
|
On January 29 2020 07:27 GreasedUpDeafGuy wrote:
Nathanias has always been a a d-bag and a crap commentator. However, he is free to say whatever he wants. The day we start punishing people for speech is the day we've ended as a species
And lets not pretend he isn't slightly right. Zerg has a few of the best mechanical players, but a lot of what we might consider B-tier pros are only that way because they play a race that's been broken for years at this point.
broken for years? At most they've been broken for 1 year and since Lambo had his best year actually in 2018 when Zerg was considered to be balanced I don't see how the term Patchzerg fits to him.
|
On January 29 2020 08:45 Tastyyyy wrote:Show nested quote +On January 29 2020 08:40 gophersnake wrote:
I was hoping he'd get ousted from the community more just because I think he's really annoying and am tired of hearing his bitching. Hopefully he does this six or seven more times and we can be done with him That's the problem with your statements. You come here to talk about someone you already find "annoying" and that you think "bitches a lot". You just jumped on the hate train the first chance you had. Should someone loose is job because of one comment?? Hum?? This is esports, it is not politics.
Yes, that's what I am hoping for.
|
On January 29 2020 05:18 Tastyyyy wrote:
He has already said that he is sorry for what he said and that he shouldn't have done it. Isn't that enough?
Besides he basically just agreed with a comment in twitch chat...can't he express his opinion?
You haters should keep your mouth shut and worry about your own life.
Wow. So Nathanias has the right to express his opinion but if we don't like it we are "haters" who should keep our "mouth shut"? Yes, he apologized, but it's about as close to #sorrynotsorry as an apology gets. My hope is that where this goes is a little bit of introspection from the guy, a genuine apology (sans excuses) to Lambo, Scarlett, and anyone else he personally attacked, and a commitment to try to do better. Pretty fair and reasonable result I think, and not that much to ask for.
|
You sad nerds trying to make a thing of this, who gives a fuck
|
@Geokilla you need a mental health check for stirring the pot.
You are trying to cause internet hysteria that a few morons will follow your lead on.
Not even news get over it
|
On January 29 2020 08:05 geokilla wrote:
You guys understand if this happened in pro sports, that person wouldn't have a job right? There's trash talk, and then there's personal attacks.
Thank God this isn’t pro sports. When’s the draft and what’s the salary cap? I could wipe my ass for a lifetime if I printed all the posts from back in 2010-2012 wanting esports to be like televised sports.
Getting salty about other races and patchzergs or cannon rushers or whatever is part of esports life. Get used to it. If he lets it into his casting or takes it up to a worse level, he’ll just go back to being a streamer. I still don’t see any problem. I mean any problem other than gamers taking this kind of shit way too seriously.
|
Canada8989 Posts
On January 29 2020 08:05 geokilla wrote:
You guys understand if this happened in pro sports, that person wouldn't have a job right? There's trash talk, and then there's personal attacks.
Nah, guys like Steven A Smith get payed millions to shout conspiration theory nonesense on sports TV. He pretty much insult 4 person every day. Not that I'm particularly happy with that, but at some point we all colectively need to chill, I don't think anyone here has enough interest in this case to ask for somebody to lose his income.
|
nathanias has always been a salty balance whiner with a small man complex and one of the worst casters out there. avilo is a good comparison, nathanias is just a little more successful and a little less crazy. the sooner we get rid of him the sooner every cast doesn't have to be 15 minutes of yakking about battlecruiser micro and upgrade math no one cares about
|
Artosis is far more disrespectful towards people in the community when he plays and yet we make highlights of it and have a laugh even though we know he's being quite serious with his toxicity. The only reason Nate is coping shit is because he was being a dick to someone we know instead of some random Korean playing BW, and because he's less popular.
|
On January 29 2020 09:38 Nakajin wrote:Show nested quote +On January 29 2020 08:05 geokilla wrote:
You guys understand if this happened in pro sports, that person wouldn't have a job right? There's trash talk, and then there's personal attacks. Nah, guys like Steven A Smith get payed millions to shout conspiration theory nonesense on sports TV. He pretty much insult 4 person every day. Not that I'm particularly happy with that, but at some point we all colectively need to chill, I don't think anyone here has enough interest in this case to ask for somebody to lose his income.
I've watched enough sports to know that Steven A Smith is the exception, not the rule. And he's an incredibly controversial figure (for good reason). Everyone coming to Nate's defense or shouting at nerds to be shut up and be apathetic is fixated on the more extreme thing about him losing his income. What about the simpler concept of hoping for a genuine apology for comments that he even admits were wrong?
On the income thing, I'll say what I know plenty of folks in the community are thinking. The caster and commentator gigs are limited and there are a ton of super talented established and aspiring casters and commentators out there. I'm not sure why we feel like certain casters get a free pass to say disrespectful, rude things about players whose games they will inevitably be casting. They aren't entitled to these gigs. And personally I want to support casters, streamers, commentators who can maintain some degree of respect and professionalism on and off the desk.
Calling for the end of Nate's career is definitely disproportionate and ridiculous. Personally, I'd be sad to see him step back because he has a lot to offer. But let's be clear: this controversy is because of what he said and how he's handling it. Not because people are calling him out for it.
|
Canada8989 Posts
On January 29 2020 10:10 rwala wrote:Show nested quote +On January 29 2020 09:38 Nakajin wrote:On January 29 2020 08:05 geokilla wrote:
You guys understand if this happened in pro sports, that person wouldn't have a job right? There's trash talk, and then there's personal attacks. Nah, guys like Steven A Smith get payed millions to shout conspiration theory nonesense on sports TV. He pretty much insult 4 person every day. Not that I'm particularly happy with that, but at some point we all colectively need to chill, I don't think anyone here has enough interest in this case to ask for somebody to lose his income. I've watched enough sports to know that Steven A Smith is the exception, not the rule. And he's an incredibly controversial figure (for good reason). Everyone coming to Nate's defense or shouting at nerds to be shut up and be apathetic is fixated on the more extreme thing about him losing his income. What about the simpler concept of hoping for a genuine apology for comments that he even admits were wrong? On the income thing, I'll say what I know plenty of folks in the community are thinking. The caster and commentator gigs are limited and there are a ton of super talented established and aspiring casters and commentators out there. I'm not sure why we feel like certain casters get a free pass to say disrespectful, rude things about players whose games they will inevitably be casting. They aren't entitled to these gigs. And personally I want to support casters, streamers, commentators who can maintain some degree of respect and professionalism on and off the desk. Calling for the end of Nate's career is definitely disproportionate and ridiculous. Personally, I'd be sad to see him step back because he has a lot to offer. But let's be clear: this controversy is because of what he said and how he's handling it. Not because people are calling him out for it.
I can understand that.
At the end the day I whish there was somekind of regulatory body to solve these kind of dispute (with a fine for exemple) instead of always making it on the Internet.
|
On January 29 2020 09:07 Charoisaur wrote:Show nested quote +On January 29 2020 07:27 GreasedUpDeafGuy wrote:
Nathanias has always been a a d-bag and a crap commentator. However, he is free to say whatever he wants. The day we start punishing people for speech is the day we've ended as a species
And lets not pretend he isn't slightly right. Zerg has a few of the best mechanical players, but a lot of what we might consider B-tier pros are only that way because they play a race that's been broken for years at this point. broken for years? At most they've been broken for 1 year and since Lambo had his best year actually in 2018 when Zerg was considered to be balanced I don't see how the term Patchzerg fits to him.
Zerg balanced in 2018.... What do you do, smoke and drink all day?
|
Definitely not in favor of any cancel culture bullshit. That being said, I do think Nate did cross a line here. While he is "just balance whining" he simply went too far with it and made it very very personally targeted at one specific player. A professional commentator should never talk about the professional players he has casted and knows he's likely going to cast again like that in public, no matter how butthurt about ladder points he was.
|
If starcraft 2 wasn't balanced in 2018, it was never ever ever close to balanced, and some race was always incredibly overpowered.
For most of 2018 (after OL drop nerf) only 1 Zerg won premiers, he had the most finals vs Protoss, we had great racial distribution in nearly every tournament, maybe Zerg was a bit weak in Korea, and Terran a bit weak outside of Korea, but seriously 2018 was one of the most balanced years of SC2 we have ever had if not the most, if 2018 wasnt balanced literally no year was.
People are really delusional when it comes to balance jeez.
|
You think it would help him mentally if he were to lose his job? For saying something rash on his own stream? What an awful thread.
Let him and Lambo figure out if they hate or like eachother but what does anything have to do with Nate's casting ability... He says Lambo insults him constantly too so there is obviously some longer drama between them.
And the irony of complaining about personal attacks but calling someone the new Avilo...
|
On January 29 2020 10:45 terribleplayer1 wrote:
If starcraft 2 wasn't balanced in 2018, it was never ever ever close to balanced, and some race was always incredibly overpowered.
For most of 2018 (after OL drop nerf) only 1 Zerg won premiers, he had the most finals vs Protoss, we had great racial distribution in nearly every tournament, maybe Zerg was a bit weak in Korea, and Terran a bit weak outside of Korea, but seriously 2018 was one of the most balanced years of SC2 we have ever had if not the most, if 2018 wasnt balanced literally no year was.
People are really delusional when it comes to balance jeez.
it's insane man. It makes me lose faith in people. 2018 was the year maru won everything in KR and Serral won everything in EU. It was when carriers weren't nerfed yet and protoss late game was looking really strong against zerg (no infested terran upgrades yet etc.) The only zerg in the world who was able to do anything at all was Serral, and maybe rogue to a lesser extent.
2018 was a really good balance year, like you said zerg was strong in eu (cuz of serral) and weak in kr (for whatever reason), but here we are, apparently there are many people like nathanias who really believe in what they preach.. apparantly zerg has been overpowered for all these years. There was a long long period where zerg hadn't won a GSL in Korea since life in 2015 or something like that.
Zerg was definitely overpowered because of the nydus in 2019, and it lasted maybe 5 or 6 months, but other than that not really at all during Lotv. There was a period in 2017 where people considered hydras overpowered but that was nerfed after a few months as well after 2017 blizzcon. Zerg didn't win GSL that year.. mind-blowing the way people apparently perceive reality.
|
Northern Ireland25036 Posts
Pretty disappointing but nothing entirely out of left field, Terrans have complained they’re all better than Zergs and Protoss for a decade and it’s just balance keeping their elite mechanical chops from being rewarded.
|
Northern Ireland25036 Posts
It seems utterly stupid to target Lambo for anything personal, the guy had a much better 2018 than 2019, for whatever reasons he performed worse when Zergs were more dominant so it seems grossly unfair to call him out in such a manner.
Or Denver, or whoever really.
Just don’t do it on Twitter?
Artosis does slate players, notably Patience but he always does it in a ‘this guy is playing like an idiot, but he’s winning, maybe he knows something we don’t’ manner.
|
Northern Ireland25036 Posts
On January 29 2020 09:38 Nakajin wrote:Show nested quote +On January 29 2020 08:05 geokilla wrote:
You guys understand if this happened in pro sports, that person wouldn't have a job right? There's trash talk, and then there's personal attacks. Nah, guys like Steven A Smith get payed millions to shout conspiration theory nonesense on sports TV. He pretty much insult 4 person every day. Not that I'm particularly happy with that, but at some point we all colectively need to chill, I don't think anyone here has enough interest in this case to ask for somebody to lose his income.
Competive physical sports are something different though. End of the day you still have to perform, and be judged accordingly, which is largely fair enough.
eSports is a bit different with different races or heroes or whatever.
I mean I guess the equivalent in sports commentary would be saying Roger Federer would be trash if he played with a different racquet. Or in this instance not Roger Federer but some like top 32 player.
Which would be grossly unfair and stupid to the player in question.
|
On January 29 2020 10:45 terribleplayer1 wrote:
If starcraft 2 wasn't balanced in 2018, it was never ever ever close to balanced, and some race was always incredibly overpowered.
For most of 2018 (after OL drop nerf) only 1 Zerg won premiers, he had the most finals vs Protoss, we had great racial distribution in nearly every tournament, maybe Zerg was a bit weak in Korea, and Terran a bit weak outside of Korea, but seriously 2018 was one of the most balanced years of SC2 we have ever had if not the most, if 2018 wasnt balanced literally no year was.
People are really delusional when it comes to balance jeez.
So Zerg won 9 top tier tourements compared to 4 for Terran and 2 for protoss but they weren't OP?
|
I get that it's slow news while we wait for the first tournaments of the year, but this is pretty silly. SC2 players sledging each other is nothing particularly new.
Agree he was unprofessional but as far as news goes this is pretty minor from what I see
|
Northern Ireland25036 Posts
On January 29 2020 11:33 LTCM wrote:Show nested quote +On January 29 2020 10:45 terribleplayer1 wrote:
If starcraft 2 wasn't balanced in 2018, it was never ever ever close to balanced, and some race was always incredibly overpowered.
For most of 2018 (after OL drop nerf) only 1 Zerg won premiers, he had the most finals vs Protoss, we had great racial distribution in nearly every tournament, maybe Zerg was a bit weak in Korea, and Terran a bit weak outside of Korea, but seriously 2018 was one of the most balanced years of SC2 we have ever had if not the most, if 2018 wasnt balanced literally no year was.
People are really delusional when it comes to balance jeez.
So Zerg won 9 top tier tourements compared to 4 for Terran and 2 for protoss but they weren't OP?
Zerg have some pretty good players.
Also Protoss have won the least and there was crazy Protoss whine around Super Tournament 1 period last year regardless.
|
On January 29 2020 04:09 geokilla wrote:This started yesterday with Nathanias attacking professional players and constantly balance whining on his stream. It's gotten so bad he's honestly Avilo 2.0 at this point. http://twitter.com/LamboSC2/status/1221850643884843008?s=19And then we get this from Nathanias this morning: http://twitter.com/nathanias/status/1222182614749958144?s=19Nathanias should honestly lose his spot as a commentator and analyst for SC2. The occasional whine is fine but he goes as far as to personally attacking professional players and shitting on the game. We don't need him when we have so many other casters available. He's basically acting like Avilo. He needs to get his mental health checked. It's no joke. Edit: I mean the last line as that the way he talks and rants about it and then engaging on Twitter suggests there's an underlying issue. I don't mean it in a derogatory way. I apologize for the misunderstanding. I know quite a few people who have some mental health issues and it's no joke. The anxiety and sudden emotional changes they go through is serious.
is teh actual game not fun enough for you..... drama queen
|
On January 29 2020 11:33 LTCM wrote:Show nested quote +On January 29 2020 10:45 terribleplayer1 wrote:
If starcraft 2 wasn't balanced in 2018, it was never ever ever close to balanced, and some race was always incredibly overpowered.
For most of 2018 (after OL drop nerf) only 1 Zerg won premiers, he had the most finals vs Protoss, we had great racial distribution in nearly every tournament, maybe Zerg was a bit weak in Korea, and Terran a bit weak outside of Korea, but seriously 2018 was one of the most balanced years of SC2 we have ever had if not the most, if 2018 wasnt balanced literally no year was.
People are really delusional when it comes to balance jeez.
So Zerg won 9 top tier tourements compared to 4 for Terran and 2 for protoss but they weren't OP?
Serral won 6 events.. all WCS events + GSL vs the world + WCG Global finals. (Only one of these events had a ZvZ final - the last WCS event when reynor was first allowed to participate.)
Rogue won IEM Katowice,
Maru won 3 GSL's
Stats and Classic won the super tournament in 2018.
A zerg didn't even make it to the finals that year in Korea. Super tournament finals were PvP both times, GSL finals were TvP(2) and TvT(1).
How are you getting to 9 top tier tournaments?
When 6 out of 7 were won by serral because he was the greatest player of that era by far that has very little do to with zerg being overpowered. Zerg performed weak af in Korea that year. Stop fooling yourself.
|
I don't really care for the main discussion here but lmao at people thinking zerg was balanced in 2018.
It's what happens when people only remember how many players won championships, and forget about all the arguments and discussions at the time about the completely absurd ZvT and ZvP winrates.
Maru being a god and protoss winning the super tournaments is enough to make up for it in the eyes of history apparently.
|
ALLEYCAT BLUES50114 Posts
This thread has run its course
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
